Into the Light: The Rendlesham Forest, & the UFO That Altered History Ft. John Burroughs

0:15 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Total Disclosure. My name's Ty and tonight, I am so excited to get into this episode. This is something, or this is at least a case, an episode that I've been looking forward to for a long time. I've been doing this for five three five years, podcasting for much longer than that, and someone who I've been watching for a very long time, I finally gets a chance to speak with him. December nineteen eighty, deep in quiet English forest, a young US airman stepped forward towards a pulsing light that should not have been there.

0:59 Speaker 1: Nothing in his life, or even in the UFO history, would ever be the same. We're going to revisit the Rndulsham Forest incident through the eyes of the man who lived it up close, closer than anyone most people, a man who's encounters were so real, so physical, and so undeniable that the United States government quietly granted him full VA disability, the first case in history linked directly to a UFO event. John F. Burrows is here. He was there that night, that weekend in December. He approached the craft, and he may have paid the price for it.

1:38 Speaker 1: Before we dive in, make sure you're subscribed to Total Disclosure on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Hit that like button, share this with someone that you know loves the topic, and yeah, help support. It's really really a great best way to help. I got to like get into this one. I had some banter ready, but I think I kind of just want to get right into it. So with that being said, guys, well i'll see you on the other side, let's get right into it. I could. I couldn't even read my own handwriting on the intro slit and I had to I couldn't read the banter part.

2:23 Speaker 1: But John, thank you for thank you for being here man, thanks for having me on. So embarrassing. I don't get nervous before shows, but uh I don't. I can't. I literally can't even read my own handwriting. I feel like an idiot right now. But you have been someone that listen. I mean, I'm thirty two, so I have been what your case was. The Randolsom case in general was one that I came across pretty pretty early on. I mean pretty early on when I had my own sighting and I made my mom bring me to the library and you know, teach me as much as I as much information as I could get on UFOs and what they might be, who they could be piloted by your The Rndollstrom case came up pretty quick.

3:13 Speaker 1: I don't know how quick, but it was one that I knew about pretty pretty much right after my sight in. So that was about twenty years ago. So sometime after that I started watching pretty much anything I could get my hands on, and that's when I came across you, Jim Peniston. Uh. And obviously everyone knows this case. H knows the the obviously the recording from the base Commander Charles Hall. So I just want to say, like, I mean, thank You've gone through so much and this community can be a little relentless, but you've kept pushing on and pushing on and you just have like a pretty pretty incredible story.

3:57 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say thank you, thank you for your service.

4:01 Speaker 2: Right, well, I appreciate that.

4:04 Speaker 1: Before we I mean, before we jump into the events of Rndlesham, can you tell me a little bit about yourself, who you are, who you were, you know before you went into the military, maybe why you went to the military.

4:18 Speaker 2: Well, as far as I just had graduated from high school back then. People think the economy is bad now, it was terrible back in the seventies. Flash was through really through the roof. There's a lot of issues. Jobs are hard to come by, like any kind of job, most people there'll be one hundred people apply for a job that would even be, you know, working as a store clerk or something like that. They were hard to find. I actually had a decent job, but I just was ready to get out and see some of the world.

4:48 Speaker 2: So I graduated in seventy eight and I went to work, and I just felt like I didn't want to stay my home town. So I explored the military, and I chose the Air Force and I joined it.

5:05 Speaker 1: Had you, I mean, I had you ever been interested in the topics of UFOs or like, you know, had you just seen it in the news? What was your relationship with the phenomena before entering the military?

5:18 Speaker 2: Nothing?

5:19 Speaker 1: Literally nothing.

5:20 Speaker 2: Okay, this is a different world. Back then, it was fast cars and girls and an alcohol. Fast cars and alcohol, Okay, that's all. I really was in motorcycles and I had a fast car Camaro. I had a motorcycle, and I like girls a lot, So I had a drink all not I shouldn't say drink. I like to drink.

5:42 Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. But so so yeah, I mean, the internet wasn't a thing. I mean, for anyone who's listening, like a newer audience, you guys got to remember the time period. There's no internet. I mean, how many channels did you have on cable three?

5:59 Speaker 2: I think it just started, so I think there was CNN where I live, WGN, and I don't know if there's anything else.

6:06 Speaker 1: So you're not even really getting I mean, you're getting the news is really starting to become a twenty four to seven program, but it's not quite there yet. It's still local, it's still regional.

6:18 Speaker 2: Well yeah, most of it's wrote local, including the paper was still very popular.

6:22 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, exactly, not just to not just to hide under a during a rainstorm, but to actually read. And that's yeah.

6:30 Speaker 2: Well, today's phone is yesterday's newspaper. There was a picture one time everybody was standing on the corner reading the newspaper. Nowadays they're all standing in the corner reading their.

6:39 Speaker 1: Phone, right right, And so okay, so no, like literally had you I mean, so yeah, actually I won't even go there because you already said it you were interested in one thing.

6:54 Speaker 2: Well, it was a young kid, that's what I did. I mean, yeah, I wasn't into the library, scholars or any of that stuff. It just really wasn't.

7:03 Speaker 1: It was sports, yeah, because I was thinking like for myself, like I went to parties, I drank. But I mean again, I come from a different time period. I was always like hanging out with like the existential guys, smoking a joint in the corner, like.

7:20 Speaker 2: Go back then. But see, I mean UFOs weren't that popular back then. In fact, it was a taboo. You didn't really want to talk about it.

7:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of a career under actually not just.

7:29 Speaker 2: A career or period. People just would look at you like what little Green men?

7:34 Speaker 1: You know, right right.

7:35 Speaker 2: It wasn't that many books out then, and there wasn't really any TV or anything that really covered it. I mean there was sci fi, but you know, it wasn't a lot in the UFOs and stuffs or whatever you want to say.

7:50 Speaker 1: It's so that's I think that's so interesting to think about, like the time period difference, and I think the UFO community like the fact that that's even a thing. I mean, we take that for granted. Every day, and I think it's it's a very it's an interesting dichotomy to think about the way it is now and how far it's come. It really has come so far compared to like when you were a kid. And that's not that long ago. I mean, you're not that old or anything.

8:20 Speaker 2: I'm sixty five. The incident took place only forty five years. But yeah, it's a lot's changed.

8:25 Speaker 1: That's less than a person ago, right, Yeah, generations? Where were so you joined the you joined the military, where were you stationed? What was your role? And and you know we can go from there.

8:41 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, when you joined back then, it was six week basic, so that was at Lachlan. You did the basic, right. The tech school was at Lachlan too in San Antonio, so I think that was six weeks two and it was called security police at the time. So and I went into law enforcement. So you went through the tech school, you graduated. About halfway through your tech school, you got your orders, which I received orders to go to the r bet Waters had no idea where that was. I mean, and I really didn't ask to go overseas when I meant to see the world.

9:13 Speaker 2: I just wanted to get out of Homington normal. I didn't necessarily want to go overseas. I was thinking more about getting somewhere in the United States different, especially what was warmer in Illinois. But I ended up in England. That was my first tour. I was there from seventy nine to eighty one.

9:28 Speaker 1: So that's one way to see the world.

9:31 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it was solo World.

9:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you did you? Now? Can you explain the strategic and the the importance of raf bent Waters? And it doesn't it have a So it has a sister It has a sister base, and it's called it starts with a W.

9:53 Speaker 2: Wood Breaks it's Woodbridge. Yeah. Well, actually everything happened at Woodbridge. It didn't happen to bet Waters. Originally I called the Bentwaters event, but it really wasn't at bent Waters. It happened outside the back of Woodward's East Gay And then they changed it now for the rental from Forests because it happened in rentals for us.

10:13 Speaker 1: Can you go? Can you go? Can sell? Like if I were to fly in and could I get to Is the base there still is it closed? Well?

10:22 Speaker 2: Bent Waters is an air park. It was sold, so there's a private owner they still have. They have the gate going onto the flat line, the flight line is still there, the buildings are still there. A move they actually build a movie studio so they filmed there. In fact, I went back there with the Canadian crew. We filmed on their facilities besides going through the forest. So bent Waters has been so privately. Woodbridge belongs to the British and they have an active military helicopter unit on there, so it's still there.

10:52 Speaker 2: And then yeah, you could get out in the forest. Yeah, it's changed a lot and they've made a lot of you know, different things, different stuff, but yeah, you can still go out there. They have a trail out there. They have the craft Penisen described there, but it's not where it really happened. It's farther away from really happens.

11:13 Speaker 1: So it's kind of for me that, you know, that makes me think of It's like, uh, I don't know if you know Massachusetts at all, but Salem and the Witch Trials where the Witch's memorial is is. It's like a bunch of headstones and it has all their names right. It's like a mile from where they actually were hanged.

11:33 Speaker 2: It's a while, but it's probably a quarter mile down. There was a lot of deception done with this case. Colonel Hall did an interview one time or even said they planted fake sites. They did different things because they were trying to hide exactly where the location is, just like they were trying to hide the dates and times and everything else, because the deeper you would dig into this case, the more you would find about it, and you know, the things that took place, just like the memo wasn't factual in dates and times.

12:03 Speaker 2: But the event actually took down right down by Cable Green, which you know, it's down there towards the corner of the forest where you cross, there's a fence line and the farmer that owns the fields actually now put a big fence up because he doesn't want people out in this field just to be it was just a barbar fence. You could climb over and go into.

12:23 Speaker 1: The field, right, Yeah, I kind of understand that on the farmer's perspective, like you probably just like, oh my god, so many people are coming through here, Like.

12:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, it got it got pretty popular. I don't know how popular it is after COVID. Everything kind of died after COVID for a while, literally before COVID. A lot of people would come there and do stuff and film there and everything else.

12:44 Speaker 1: I would have loved. I would love to go there, but I again, it's I mean, that's that's another thing.

12:49 Speaker 2: So well, the honest thing is is if you go there, there's a chance you could see something. There's still stuff going on to this day outside in the forest.

12:56 Speaker 1: Area, and that's something I definitely want to touch upon in this evening. And maybe maybe I'll just come right out and ask you right in the beginning. I've I've worked with a lot of the I've I've walked nuclear witnesses into members of Congress's office to brief them on the situation of UAPs or UFOs as the most commonly known in nukes that for me, there I can draw very uh Uh. I can draw not too many hard conclusions or things, but I can draw lines to things where there's so much evidence that it goes beyond coincidence.

13:41 Speaker 1: Uh, that UFOs are attracted or at least are surveiling to a degree. Whatever that means, I don't know, because we can't put ourselves in an unidentified or unknown's brain. But there's something with the advent of the nuclear technology that humans once they split the atom, sightings start the spike data. Bent Waters have nuclear weapons. The government has denied it, but most people will give you a smirk and say, I can't comment.

14:15 Speaker 2: Well, this is what I can tell you about the area. Okay, First of all, I could tell you the misconception that nukes were not allowed in England is wrong. And the fact of the matter is the base we were at and all the other bases that were inside of England or NATO bases, so we fell under a NATO charter under NATO law, so the facilities and bases were allowed to have nuclear weapons on. Okay, there's a charter and I put this on my Facebook fakes years ago because there were people jumping up and down in the UK and saying it was they broke the law.

14:52 Speaker 2: No, they did not. The NATO charter to this day allows nuclear weapons in NATO countries. They just don't like to make a big deal about it. Because if you if you go forward from our incident, Green and Common came online with that type of nuclear weapon that they admitted was there, that had all kinds of protests and issues, so they didn't want to broadcast it. But the fact was there were nuclear weapons inside of NATA and England under NATO Charter.

15:20 Speaker 1: Okay, and maybe we don't have to go further than that for the sake of your freedom. But okay, so but and then I want to ask one more question. Ben Waters and Woodbridge their strategic Yeah.

15:36 Speaker 2: I can give you the whole rundown of the base. What our mission was. The Cold War was going full board. That was Carter was the president leaving regular one. There was a huge build up after Reagan came in and redeed, he modernized the military and he made bases bigger. Every base I went to from bent Waters all the way through grew after Reagan became president. There was all kinds of technology being brought online that was being hidden from the Carter administration. Because most people don't remember, because you probably don't.

16:09 Speaker 2: Mkultra was real and mk ultra was taken. But I'm just saying it was taking place, was taking place in the seventies, and all that technology got transferred over to the United Kingdom. They hid it from They hid it from the American Congress and from the President, and they moved it to Europe. It was all being done right outside the back gate of Woodbridge. Out there, it's called Orford Nest or Ford Nest. Most people don't know is area fifty one for the United Kingdom. It's huge. They developed lasers, nuclear weapons, radar there.

16:46 Speaker 2: Everything that was done exotic wise, it was advancement of technology was all done right outside the backde of Woodbridge. And there was a facility that was a joint American British at the time and now it's only British called Marlstrom Heath and Marconi was the defense contractor at the time. They were working on SDI. Yeah, during the event, but there were but most people think sci didn't even start until after Reagan. Reagan took com president. It wasn't being worked on back in the seventies.

17:17 Speaker 1: Which would make total I mean, it would make total sense that. I mean that idea didn't just pop it was. It sounds like it went public because they wanted they needed more funding.

17:28 Speaker 2: And then yeah, well so different. Trump just talked about the Golden Dome, which is just an advancement of SDI, right, and that's what they're doing. And it's ironic that SDI was just becoming popular when our event happened. Now they're going to do the Golden Dome, which ties in to UAP techno.

17:46 Speaker 1: That's I didn't And with that, I mean that is not that's so timely right now obviously stranger things right just just I mean loosely based on the mod doc project and you know they're incorporated.

18:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, Montalk was tried to mk Ultra. Yeah, the equipment, but the equipment, but the equipment that came from Montalk went over to.

18:06 Speaker 1: The United Kingdom and that's how they That is very interesting. I don't think i've heard that so well.

18:13 Speaker 2: It's there. I mean a lot of people will scoff at it, but it's there. You just have to do your research, which I did. See I had skin in the game when I got sick, and I was already trying to figure out what happened to us before that. But when I got sick, I did a deep dive and I started working with researchers that were looking at all possibilities of what a UAP is, not just the nuts and boats, UFOs and biological beings. And before I forget, I want to tell you. I know you worked with Sallas, but Aero was being honest about it.

18:44 Speaker 2: There's something you're not aware of. That Sallas doesn't like to talk about. But you can go back and research this, Okay. One of the things that Salas has said was that we wouldn't have tested our technology on those facilities because we would have ruined it. But he claims that the aliens did something to it and we were able to bring it back online in three to five days. Yeah, that that doesn't add up. And I'll tell you why if you go back and look. Have you ever heard of what it's called a Marx generator.

19:15 Speaker 1: Marx generator is sounds similar.

19:17 Speaker 2: It's tied to Tesla, and that's a that's a generator that was developed back during the Philadelphia experiment, and it's Tesla based technology. And that particular generator was tied directly to the sallas's launch site and the Sage radar, which was tied directly to the launch site, and the Marx generator will create those UAPF facts two frequencies and everything else. And here's the other thing you need to think about. They did not see an alien craft. They saw lights and they did not see alien beans.

19:54 Speaker 2: The Marx generator is tied to these things. It's tied to phenomenon, it's tied to frequencies and everything else, and that was all tied directly to his facility and all these other nuclear facilities that had these events that it and it was all tied in through nora AD and all the radar systems and everything else. So when Arrow came back and said, which people missed it because they wanted to argue and say the fact that they're lying about that Arrow was being honest. They were admitting that the government tests technology, this type of technology on our equipment facilities.

20:35 Speaker 2: But nobody wanted to listen to that. They just said they were lying about what happened to Salas and his crew.

20:41 Speaker 1: A huge part of UFO history.

20:43 Speaker 2: It is because yes, but UFOs, if you go back to what Bigelow's talking about and Green and those guys, they're not talking about nuts and boats aliens. They're talking about unidentified aero phenomenon. Now they have talked about some biological bodies, but actually a UAP is its own intelligence within itself, and they're actually working on that within all of our advanced technology going forward right now.

21:10 Speaker 1: Jesus.

21:10 Speaker 2: In fact, if you go to the movie that just came out, one of the guys that I just briefly saw a clip he said, whoever controls his technology going forward, this is the next Manhattan Projects and whoever controls this technology will control the world for the next underd Yeah, just like we did what the we did with.

21:27 Speaker 1: The new It was Jay Stratton who said that.

21:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, he's being honest, that there's some things they're honest about.

21:34 Speaker 1: But I had I and I'm I'm actually friends. I consider him a friend. I don't know if he I we did the episode, but Tim Phillips O Varrow, I had him on and I heard him out, and I I of course pushed on him. But the way you just the way that you just brought those things together. In my head, I guess I was being arrogant in the same way that other people have been that I didn't want to believe or I didn't want to think about the fact that maybe our government was testing on our own facilities, because that's where you're gonna have to test it.

22:16 Speaker 1: If you test it on an enemy, that's called an active war.

22:19 Speaker 2: Well, no, it's not even that you don't want to divulge your hand to the enemy totally. Yeah. Yeah, but it's just like the Nimens incident was just the same thing that if you go down and you look at where it happened, it happened off of Catalina Island. Yeah, Now it's interesting that blu Asondo. If you watch Unidentified, there was one of the episodes where he started they had him talk about before right before they went to commercial break, and he started going into what south of Catalina Island and what everything involves Catalina Island and the technology.

22:53 Speaker 2: Then he said they acted like they were going to carry it on after the uh after the break, and they didn't because and the incident that happened with the other aircraft carrier off the East coast was right down by the Florida Pensula Peninsula. That is where all stealth technologies developed and worked on. It sits right off of Eglin air Force Bace and that's where all these same raidar facilities and everything else. But they're all down there. So both of the big incidents with both aircraft carrier groups were done in these facility facility areas where they could test this stuff on our own equipment.

23:26 Speaker 2: Because it's the best in the world, the best radars, the best systems, and it isn't convenient that both carrier groups were unarmed. So I got into it with Kevin Day. I interviewed him for Phenomenal Radio and he made a comment that he said, well, if the craft, if our ship, if the aircraft would have been armed, they would have fired on it. And I said, well, what would have happened? He goes, well, the weapon systems would have probably wouldn't have been able to identify this and came back and blew the aircraft up because this stuff is all keyed in to heat and sensors, and the weapons would go.

24:02 Speaker 2: It would turn around and reidentify our own aircraft. So that's a that's a weapon right then in itself. So you can create these effects. And the EC aircraft that Navy have can create these effects, and so can some of our other aircraft. They can create these effects that are with the carrier striker.

24:22 Speaker 1: So what you're talking about is now now we're going I mean, this is deep already, right, So you're talking about essentially having the ability to not just trick the radar, but trick the physical evidence.

24:39 Speaker 2: Well, see, but Favor and Day weren't honest, and the Day eventually got caught and had to admit that we've already had technology to can manipulate radars, so they can manipulate what you're seeing on radar and what it's doing. What what what Favor wasn't honest about And I called them on it and he admitted they had the helmet, but they claim you would using it that day. There's a helmet that the F thirty five pilots used and it was the first generation that was that was the first generation of it that was being used by the Fateen pilots during the nemesis of that that you can actually control different different parts of the equipment, different stuff in equipment, all through the helmet itself, which is actually you're using your mind to control it.

25:24 Speaker 2: It's multitaskic. Yeah, it's that's it's that. That's why the F thirty five is so so real. It's so classified. The helmet itself. Now, all you have to do is go back. Have you heard of the gods helmet?

25:36 Speaker 1: Yeah?

25:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was persenger that was tied to this whole group. Do you can you can manipulate the mind. You can manipulate everything through these helmets, and you can control different parts of the aircraft, weapons systems and everything else. And all you have to do is go back to an old movie called Firefox where they talked about that. In the movie, it was the Russians had it in clinding what it was in it and you can use your mind to control stuff. We have that, we have that ability.

26:06 Speaker 1: It's real conscious consciousness based now to whatever that means. So you're using your your you're harnessing your consciousness.

26:15 Speaker 2: To control the control the weapon system, interface with the and these pilots are trained on that through meditation and everything else.

26:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the psionics thing is something that you totally are.

26:28 Speaker 2: No, it's real.

26:29 Speaker 1: It's that's what I mean.

26:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, no, I mean, this isn't made up stuff. But then i'm you know, apothesizing, and this is all the technology. DARPA just came out and said they're within very shortly able to they're going to be able to create time dilation bubbles for individual soldiers, and they'll be able to create it through a backpack. Again, they admitted to it. And that's what happened to me and the other guy that got compensated from the government. I actually for sure went into a time dilation bubble that was being created by our own technology and the real phenomenon that's in the forest at or Woodbridge.

27:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's circle back for a minute, because gee, you just kind of blew up my whole worldview right there. Like, but it's okay, and.

27:16 Speaker 2: You know what, these are all tied to SAP programs.

27:19 Speaker 1: That's what.

27:20 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. These Congress people you're meeting with, they're a waste of time. They have no control, no power. Nancy Mace just came out and said, what was there about a month ago, she said, they vote on SAP. They vote on SAP programs. They don't even know what they're voting on. They just get given the number and will they support fifty billion going to this program? They don't even know what the program is. All this technology stuff that's going on. Congress has no oversight over it.

27:48 Speaker 2: They have no control. Only the gaining units like CIA and all those and the contract companies that control the technology and are developing the technology. So this is all a farce, Tyler. You're not going to get disclosure, you're not going to get anything. And the fact that they're doing this heerings to a subcommittee just lays it even deeper. The head of the committee is not comer, is not even interested in this. He farmed it off to a subcommittee that has no subpoena power. And I've been invited.

28:19 Speaker 2: I was invited to meet with Arrow, come up and meet the Gang of Eight testifying all this other stuff. And I said, I will not do any of that until you confront the Department of War now and the VA and ask them the status of my records. And no one will touch that. No one will confront the VA or or anything and have them clarify your records. Yeah, my records where they are, what they are.

28:42 Speaker 1: Big deal that your records are still hidden, and no one they've asked you to come talk. But yet they will not entertain the idea or at least muddy themselves by they can't.

29:00 Speaker 2: But none of that. But I do have proof that Adrian and I got a settlement. We have these documents. It's real. They admitted we were injured during the event. Colonel Hawch just did an interview with US Caulkart and said on the record that Adrian and I were injured during that event. Okay, but here's the issue. That is proof. But the government remained silent and until the government will admit to what's going on, which these units won't. It's just like these people. Do you remember, I can't remember.

29:31 Speaker 2: The last guy, the most stunning guy and all these testimonies, was the guy that came forward, that talked in the last hearings and said, I can't talk about most of it unless we go into a skiff. And even then, if we go into a skiff, you're not going to have the clearance to hear what I know. And that is the fact. These congress people don't have access to any of these programs. They don't know what's going on. They don't know where the money's going. And if you go back to nine to eleven, which is conspiracy based theory, but it's these are the facts.

29:59 Speaker 2: Sheill testified on the hill the day before.

30:02 Speaker 1: A trillion.

30:04 Speaker 2: No, it was more. Now it's like eight trillion they can't account for. And if you go it's over twenty trillion now, But it was around eight trillion that they couldn't account for at that point. And if you go back and add up all the budgets prior to when he testified, all that money didn't even equal what he said they couldn't account for. So then all of a sudden, nine to eleven happens, and the two areas where the data was held was the name was in the Kindagon where the Pentagon got hit, and Building seven held the backup files and they completely dropped everything.

30:37 Speaker 2: And now it's over twenty trillion that they can't account for.

30:40 Speaker 1: I just did an episode about I was asked to entertain this idea because I'm part of the UFO world that they potentially used to use directed energy weapons on nine to eleven, and I'm from Boston, so I mean New York's four hours away. I I went through nine to eleven in a way that most people didn't we do.

31:07 Speaker 2: What I can tell you is this kind of gone.

31:10 Speaker 1: That is fucking crazy. I think they that's fucking crazy.

31:13 Speaker 2: The problem with the Pentagon is there's people that were there that said there were was plane wreckage and bodies, but they wouldn't identify the aircraft that hit it. But I could tell you when I flew on missions after nine to eleven with pilots, every one of them to t would say they didn't want to go into conspiracy. It just said that aircraft couldn't have done what they said it did, nor could there be any pilot they could have. Yeah, and they want you to believe them.

31:40 Speaker 1: If you were to go on the actual guy that did it, he was demonstrably, noticeably the worst pilot out of all the hijackers. The guy couldn't even fly a little cessna. And you're telling me that he banked a two hundred and eighty degree turn and then and then came street level and and just guided perfectly into the building. I mean, come on, it just.

32:06 Speaker 2: Did it didn't. A lot of that stuff didn't happen the way it is, and we lost control at that point of our own of our own freedoms because they did the Patriot.

32:16 Speaker 1: Acts Patriot Act.

32:17 Speaker 2: But the bottom line is is that's the concern right now that we're going to have something having to do with UFOs. It's going to get admitted to and that will be the next patriot type of apt type of thing.

32:30 Speaker 1: Are you saying a false flag?

32:33 Speaker 2: It could be a combination of both. I mean, nine to eleven happened, it's just the circumstances behind it don't all add up. I'm not arguing that things didn't.

32:42 Speaker 1: Go on, but we like the Gulf of Town can well.

32:46 Speaker 2: You just think about how it's been over twenty years, how much more advanced they are the technology than they were twenty years ago. I really don't know how totally they did everything. I just know the details behind what they that.

33:01 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of doctor Judy would No, I look into her. She's talk about the directed energy weapon thing, and I mean, it's interesting.

33:13 Speaker 2: There were guys that I talked to that got to the site within the first twenty four hours, and they said there was high explosives smell in the air. So it sounded like some.

33:21 Speaker 1: Of these I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that, Like I don't doubt that control. Some sort of explosive controlled demolution happened, But I don't think that was at the core of it, because the buildings justified. But that's not we're here to talk about.

33:38 Speaker 2: So no, I know. But and not only that, but here's the final kicker. Everything they've claimed happened to bring the buildings down, they still found passports at the bottom of the grubble that that identified who the terrorists were.

33:51 Speaker 1: Oh h lucky.

33:53 Speaker 2: That's all I'm getting that, folks. Just all I'm trying to say before we go forward is don't believe everything the government tells.

33:59 Speaker 1: You shit, don't even believe more. Don't believe any of it.

34:04 Speaker 2: I'm trying to be nice, Okay.

34:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't believe any of it. Just do your own reason.

34:08 Speaker 2: And also don't believe that the people in Congress actually know what's going on either that way, they have no clue. They have no clue to what's going on.

34:15 Speaker 1: I can't. I don't want to say anything on air. I didn't. It's a I won't go to that, but I don't want I don't want to bash. I'm not bash. I know you're not bashing Congress because they're doing what all.

34:27 Speaker 2: I'm just saying is I'm not saying they're not interested or they don't want to know, and they don't realize they have no oversight. But the bottom line is they're not going to have it. Look at what happened all You got to just go back to m k Ultra. When they found it out, they just they claimed and destroyed all the records and all the technology went bye bye and they didn't get any access to it, which that just tells you that started way back then and it's just got worse ever since then. How they hide stuff, keep stuff from Congress and they don't have access to it.

34:55 Speaker 2: How could you vote on a project and give funding too something you don't even know what it is.

35:00 Speaker 1: Because they don't even they make And it's so funny. They make these fucking bills, five thousand pages and they have twenty four hours to sign it. It's like you no one could read through that.

35:12 Speaker 2: No, I don't, but that I mean you saying so. I'm not trying to bash individual members of Congress. I'm just saying we're not gonna I know your show is total disclosure. They ain't gonna happen. That's all I wanna tell you. You're not gonna get total disclosures, even when they tell you the truth, which I don't think they were totally a lying about the Salas incident. People don't want to They don't even believe it. They don't even consider anything else other than an alien craft showed up outside of the missile site, brought it down, fried the systems.

35:45 Speaker 2: But we could bring them back online in three days, you know. But we wouldn't do that to ourselves, nor we couldn't brought it back if we did it. That's all. I'm just saying this. This stuff doesn't add.

35:56 Speaker 3: Up, It doesn't add up.

35:57 Speaker 1: You're right, You're right. I know that I'm we're gonna, we're gonna like each other. And uh, I'll there's some things I definitely want to talk to you off air about. But going back to bet Waters to keep some sort of just linear path because your brain. Yeah, I love the stuff you're talking about, and I could I could talk for hours. I don't wanna, I do wanna. I do want to get into the redistry because I do want to spur out on that and I think we could touch on all these things. Uh, but talk to me about I'd like to hear in your words.

36:34 Speaker 1: I've listened to it and of course before, but can you tell me just bring me to that night that you had your encounter, walk me through what happened, No details too small, and just give me the give me the give me in the audience. The that not the longest version, but summation.

36:57 Speaker 2: I'll give you a condensed version, okay, the first the first night. And you can't go off the memo because the memo when it was written, they didn't have the proper dates and times we came on duty. It was our last midnight shift. It was Christmas night going into Boxing Day in the UK. It was twenty three hundred. We came on duty and the event happened at oh three hundred in the morning. And how it all started was myself and the law enforcement supervisor staff sergeant who was my supervisor directly new to the base.

37:30 Speaker 2: We got together and we were riding around. It was a slow night and we were driving around the base and we also went down to the east gate and we had to check it to make sure it was scare. As we're going down to the east gate together talking, he saw something in the sky going to the forest. I didn't see it going into the forest, but he got my attention. I saw it into the forest. So from that point we've got went off base to see if we can figure out what was going on. It wasn't the direct threat to the base, but it was right outside the base in the forest, right down at the end of the road.

37:57 Speaker 2: Well, we got down to the end of the road, it didn't feel right. We were off based. We got back up called it in. They called the security soup down, which was Peniston. He came down and saw the same thing we did in the forest, so they did some stuff behind the scenes, called radars, got confirmation there was something on radar Odi area disappeared, so the decision was made to send Penistons riding myself into the forest to figure out what it could be. They called the local authorities built the British police and the fire department, but we were out in the middle of nowhere, so it took it was going to take them a while to get there, so it was another reason why we went by back.

38:31 Speaker 2: And if we had come across something our own fire department could have responded quicker then they could have. So we went into the forest. We played cat and mouse with it for a while. At some point they lost radio contact with this. Our radios weren't working right. We got close to something and when we finally did, we came up into a clearing over a burm and all three of us saw it. We dropped to the ground. Everything changes from that moment on on what our recollections are. I remember getting close to it, everything dimmed down and then it got bright again and went up into the sky and went back into the forest.

39:03 Speaker 2: The other guy that was the brand new airman first night on flight, did an interview with James Fox and said when we got close to it, I was armed, which I don't remember being armed. I don't think I was. I drew my weapon and it zappedis and we all passed on and we woke up and it was gone. A pedestin goes into the details of where he got up, walk around it, touched it, roade stuff in his notebook, took pictures and all this other stuff, touched the craft, called her the Crangle Draft, and then had a buying their download.

39:31 Speaker 2: So that's the basic discussion of the three of us, all different synopsis of what happened the first night. It did go out. We all agree that, I think two of us do for sure. I don't remember if Ed did say that or not that it did go out into the Actually he did, because he wrote in a statement it did. We went into the field and into another field, and we followed it for a while, and then we lost it. When we all came back, our watches were forty five minutes slow, and they said they lost us for over forty five minutes right traffic.

40:01 Speaker 2: So that's the synopsis of the first night. Then they we went back to the base, turned in, got a briefing, went out to the site, found some evidence of some pictures and from trying to object in the forest, damage to the trees and all that. So that was night one. Night two was the flight that took over midnight shift had an incident. I wasn't there. What I was told right after it happened was they saw lights to shift commander and left that waters when I was going over to Woodbridge, had an encounter with some lights, shut her vehicle down.

40:34 Speaker 2: She freaked out and she ended up getting relieved duty and she left the base. So that was night too, and if I'm ann rayo, we did. We interviewed all the people involved at night too, and they saw things and a bunch of stuff. On Night three was the halt night where you can find the memo where he talked about it and the morning and the recording which is stunning if you listen to it.

40:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, like what do you make like does does it line up with what you experienced in the sense of like what how he's talking, the tone he has and then as it's coming toward him the fright.

41:12 Speaker 2: Well I wasn't actually there for that, no, So but yeah, that was that was That was what was going on, and he's always been honest about his experience. Where he's been flaky is who was there? He denied Adrian and I weren't there even at first, and finally we proved that we were the tape. Yeah, at the very beginning he claimed neither one of us were even involved in the Third Night, but we were able to provide evidence to the tape and other stuff. So he's finally not only admitted that we were there, but we were in the tape.

41:45 Speaker 2: Yeah. But what that tape wasn't very cleaned up. Georgina BRUNEI got the tape and had it cleaned up, and that's when you could hear it. That's when the story started to fall apart with Adrian and I weren't involved.

41:57 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm going to create a marker here so the people that are listening in the future, I might insert a clip of that audio recording organ.

42:06 Speaker 2: You can say, we have airman Burros and two other personnel at our location. They want to rendezvous, and they said not at this point. We'll let him know that I remember, Yeah, yeah, but that was not The original tape that was released was not very clear, and it was only after they cleaned it up and listened to it. That was the beginning of him falling apart, and it bestinds it was on the tape, So it was trying to cover up with happering to Adrian and I okay.

42:30 Speaker 1: Because that is the I mean, if you strip everything away from the rest of what happened, the real problem for the US military and the US government was going to be the fact that you were you got zapped by this thing, Like there was physical interaction where you were, where you were somewhat harmed and had missing time. There was physical engage to a level that that the military, you know, even from on the site, knew this was going to be a fucking problem.

43:09 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was the military or if it was the government contract Maconie and those guys, because Green was involved in it. Kick Green was involved in US back then. He was involved in our incident. So is Nick Pope's father. No, Kick Green's the CIA guy that was Yeah, but he's the one that helped get my settlement. He's actually a doctor that has done a lot of He's actually treated and evaluated people that were injured by UAPs. So he was involved in that incident and so Nick Pope's father was too, which most people aren't aware of.

43:46 Speaker 2: It's going to be in my new book. Jeffrey Pope was in charge of all the technology for the United Kingdom. He was the head scientist for all this technology that was going on during that time frame. Yeah, he was. It's gonna come out in the new book called Project Well. He poo poos around iteck he does everything else. Yeah, he says, you know, I can tell you what my dad did. It's been declassified. I can't tell you what he did, it's still classified. He did get an award for certain things, blah blah blah, but I can't talk about things that are still classified.

44:20 Speaker 2: So he does his typical.

44:22 Speaker 1: Nippi company man.

44:24 Speaker 2: Well, no, Nick Pope, I don't want to go there.

44:27 Speaker 1: No, I know, I know, I know, I know. I agree the.

44:33 Speaker 2: Very people put Off and Green and we're involved in this stuff way back in nineteen eighty. In fact, i'll put off Bob with Project Stargate. He worked for SRI. SRI was involved in this incident, including Mark County Company and everything else. So it's it's a big interwoven.

44:54 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, after night three.

44:59 Speaker 2: Well, I finished, I real fast so when we met with Hall. I met up with Hall, and then there was there was what he was seeing in the sky. He point into stuff flying around in the sky still, and there was some lights coming down from them. But then this light appeared in the distance and started coming towards us, and he asked me if that was the same thing that we saw the first night. I said, I can't tell. Can they get closer? And he let me and Adrian go forward, And then when we went forward, we got close to it, and Adrian got knocked to the ground as we were approaching it.

45:31 Speaker 2: And then he saw me go into it and I completely disappeared for a while, and then I reappeared.

45:38 Speaker 1: So he he testified that you vanished.

45:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I vanished.

45:44 Speaker 1: Yes, do you recollect that?

45:46 Speaker 2: No, none of that. Every both nights I got close to it. I don't remember what happened. But that's the interesting part about all this. It's called a time dilation bubble, which it's they can create it, but it involves what he is.

46:01 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is that this, to some degree this craft had, whether it be by proximity or by design, it took you somewhere.

46:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just well, if you understand time valation, you actually go into a different dimension. You actually either slow down or speed up, you go somewhere else. And so that's part of the interest they've had in me, these agencies and stuff. When I had my surgery, they got my tissue, the damage to the heart and everything. Was the fact that somehow I was able to survive interacting with the time valation, whether it was a real up or effect that we created. Because at the time, there's a guy who wrote a book by Andrew Pike that talked about this.

46:49 Speaker 2: He was down there studying UAPs and his studies through the university was working with through the government. Funding got interwoven into the vent Waters or Rentalds of for this incident. So they were looking at what a UAP is down there, and not only that our government was studying it. And actually he admitted they were provoking the UAPs. They're trying to understand it and learn it how to utilize it.

47:14 Speaker 1: So and other people have talked about this, like Jay Stratton has talked about how they wanted to use nuclear material to pretty much bate UAP so that they could study them. And this was a tactic that they proposed several times. But so with saying that, well, he's not being honest.

47:39 Speaker 2: It's not it's not nuclear material, it's radars. If you go back and when you look at when Roswell happened, are you aware of what happened? Right? Yeah, So they set up that triangle radar system down there because they moved it from the East coast. The big things that have gone on, including the food fighters that took place in World War Two, that all has to do a frequencies and radars and everything else. It's not the fact that the detonating a nuclear bomb didn't do something because it created the p effect.

48:09 Speaker 2: But it's more the radar systems than everything else that play into what a UAP is. Again, I'm not getting into the nuts and bolts UFOs that people believe exists or biological beings. I'm talking about what this group's talking about UAPs and stuff not I'm not trying to discuss what nuts and bolts UFO.

48:30 Speaker 1: Is, Jim. So just to clear this up, Jim Peniston, most other people are not most because I don't want to say that, but there's this thing in the community where when Rendelsham is retold, you know, in these documentaries and in these other books they frame it as this thing was a craft from another world.

48:54 Speaker 2: No, no, no, he's not. No, no, no, that's not true. It's for his his belief is it's us from the future. Yeah, it's not from another world. It's not alien. He's and I don't I don't particularly like some of the things he's done or how he's hurt the incident my personal opinion, but I'm not gonna let that. He believes it was a craft of unknown origin, but it came from the future, and it came back to that timeframe of our event, And there's he doesn't believe in aliens. He believes in time travel is exactly which ties into all this what a UAP is and all that other stuff.

49:32 Speaker 2: But it and and even Bigelow if you follow what he said, he said they're here, but he didn't say they were aliens. He just said they're here. And it could very well be something from the future coming back. I can't say that's wrong completely.

49:50 Speaker 1: It would make sense that maybe maybe something in our future, their past happens and it starts fitting out the herd, and they're coming back for genetic material. And I mean, that's totally plausible.

50:06 Speaker 2: I think I don't know. I don't think they're really coming back for materials. What they're doing is whatever in the future screwed up. They're trying to come back and keep that from happening. But every time, according to the people involved, the scientists, just because you change one thing doesn't mean that doesn't change something else. You can screw the timeline up even worse than it was, you know, when you try to take something out that happened in the first place.

50:34 Speaker 1: So yeah, time being a time being a fickle, fickle character like it seems to. It seems to when you poke in prod it it pokes back.

50:45 Speaker 2: Right now, you've seen the stuff that's come out recently where this contractor talked about the tic TAC where they worked on this object that could use this frequencies and stuff. Well, think about that as a system. If you have something do that to your radars fly in front of you, you labeled as a threat, you fire at it. The first thing you do is the weapon could come back and destroy your own craft. But the other thing is is once you learn how to make that work, every aircraft you have. It's like cloaking in star trek it.

51:18 Speaker 2: Actually it's no longer visible. It's somewhere else. So even if you fired on it in a cloak, you'd miss because it's either going slow or faster. So and including when they talk about an interstellar travel. I don't know if you're aware of this. You were up in DC, but you're aware of how put offs paper got submitted as evidence yes on interstellar travel. I saw that paper before it got declassified. I visited Putoff's facility and I saw all the Dirt's papers. I knew all about it. I didn't know they were classified, but I saw them.

51:51 Speaker 2: And what's interesting if you know the backstory of McCain. McCain was involved in my settlement and then after, and he knew a lot of what was going on with me and the cover up and Department of Justice involved. So when the twenty seventeen article came out, he wanted to know what was really going on because he knew the wolves being pulled over their eyes, even him and his own committee. So that's when they came forward. But their goal wasn't to really let him know everything, just enough to get some funding to advance these papers in this technology that.

52:21 Speaker 1: They're working on right and.

52:23 Speaker 2: Then unfortunately he got cancer and he died.

52:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunate. Yeah, that really sucks. And that's what it's seems to be, not a theme, but seems to be something that like we're always racing the Undertaker in the UFO community, and you know, people have been met with untimely, untimely deaths and you know, deaths through through weird, weird circumstance.

52:49 Speaker 3: And but.

52:52 Speaker 1: Okay, so after the night, after the third night, now, so these this is December, it's cold, it's it's it's right around now, we're actually right around the anniversary, you know, yeah, yeah, that's crazy. So after the third night, what happens do you guys are what happens on an official basis? Because I've heard things about like sodium pentol penta.

53:22 Speaker 2: Well, okay, I can kind of lay that. Okay, what I remember was we we went home after night one it was, and we were told when we came back, we have to write a statement. So I was back out there on night three. When it came back to work on Monday, they posted me on a gate. The team from Langley came into the forest. Now, what's interesting about the event, which has kind of gotten lost in the thing. They were working on technology to bring satellites down, and most likely a Russian satellite got brought down during this event, so they used the cover of the poll spacecraft damage the end of the runway, and it was involved in the whole thing.

54:02 Speaker 2: But in reality, what people have to understand is the lighthouse actually played a part in this. If you go back to the history of the area, they developed radar and the original radar system was tied into the lighthouse, and the lighthouse was being utilized to being frequencies into the forest, which was creating an effect that we walked into. The big question is is whether or not we were deliberately brought into it. I don't think night one, but by night three it's possible that they wanted to test us, honest, and that's why a bunch of stuff took place.

54:32 Speaker 2: But ultimately a team came in and recovered the satellite. There was an investigation taking place. Now go back to the era. What was the thing they said they used to like to go down and spread the word aliens lined the very beginning right after on December thirty first, a person from the base went downtown to the group that was Beautfa or something not like muffon Ere that were involved in the UFOs and told everybody an alien landed at bent Waters. So they got into they started asking questions and that was a big deal.

55:06 Speaker 2: They wrote a book about it. But eventually a group in the United States, Barry Greenwald and I can't I think his name is Barry greenwal and Fawcett was his name. They did a foyer and they got that halt memo released right and when the memo released, now the government was in a bind because they had to try to explain what went on. And not only did it cause issues with the UFO community, but CNN got in the middle of it, and that really stirred the problem. And then the News of the World broke the story and it was off to the races, playing hide and seek with the media of the rest of my life with what I could say what I couldn't say.

55:45 Speaker 2: I ended up being forced to talk with CNN. I didn't go on the record for the Special Assignments Report you can see it online because they were very adamant that I couldn't deny the event took place, but they didn't want me to talk much about the event. And so I just kind of said, I just told the reporter Chuck Tocaro, Look, this took place, some took place, the memos wrong, but it took place. But I'm not going to talk about it. And it was pretty cool about it. And Adrian was the same way. Both him and I never went on the original report.

56:17 Speaker 2: Nordia Hall, RDA Peniston, and a lot of the main people that were evolved in the Three Nights. But so it's just been a mess ever since. But for me, when I got sick is when I started digging into this, and that's when I discovered all this stuff about what was going on outside the gate, the technology, how it plays into all this. I meant, how put off Christopher Green, Eric Davis, Gary Noen, Colin Kellaher. I was around all these people. They wanted my DNA, they wanted to study my brain, all this other stuff, and I started putting all this stuff together.

56:52 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait, wait wait wait, they wanted your blood they.

56:58 Speaker 2: Went my DNA. Yeah, they actually the rink came after we did the citizen's hearing. We testified right now, if you go back, and it was the Bassett hearing, Yes, Well, if you go back, what's interesting in the hearing are and I'm not trying to brag, but it is a fact. Our testimony, the two part testimony we did, was the biggest deal for the whole hearing because the people from Congress weren't even aware, most of them about the Classified Record section or all this stuff. There were two people that did.

57:27 Speaker 2: The guy and that can't remember his name. He's an older guy who was a congressman. His district was Langley, so he knew exactly what was going on, including is one of his staffers still work for him. Came down and talked to me and helped Cheryl get some of the stuff done through the classified section.

57:45 Speaker 1: Cheryl is John McCain's assistant.

57:46 Speaker 2: Cheryl Bennett, Yes, who helped. Yes, she was the driving force behind my settlement. Right. So, but the other guy, I don't know if you know it was. His last name was Gravel and he was a senator that read d mk altar papers on the floor of the Senate. He was involved in all the stuff, and so he started asking us questions and everybody that was up there on the committee freaked out. He goes, oh, you could tell us what you really know, and they're like, no, you can't. You cannot talk about this, Do not talk about this, you don't have immunity, blah blah blah blah.

58:20 Speaker 2: So he suspected what some of this himself, what was going on, what was going on? So that helped bring in Christopher Green, who came down and met with my attorney, Pat for Sconia, who then came out and evaluated me, and they he flew Gary Nolan into Vegas, met with Colin Keller, and they tried to come down and meet with me in Flagstaff, Arizona to get my DNA, and I refused. So I refused to do that, but they got my DNA when they did the heart surgery. Not only did they get my DNA, but they got my tissue too when they did the heart surgery.

58:55 Speaker 1: They placed about I mean, yeah, you're you're you. I think that it's possible that someone manipulated the fact that the manipulated the fact that you needed this care and only in order to get.

59:11 Speaker 2: No I was sick, I was dying. The DoD handled.

59:16 Speaker 1: They just exploited the fact that you.

59:18 Speaker 2: Well, here's the best guess I can make based on everything that's going on. This technology has existed for a long time. But it's been so classified because if you go back and look after I got my settlement, Green re public on the biptop secret and laid out a bunch of stuff about why my stuff was classified, what was the involvement, and all that other stuff. These guys were hidden in the shadows and they were getting crumbs to continue developing the technology. But I think they were getting cut off.

59:48 Speaker 2: One of the people I know inside government said, every years a battle with the defense funding on exact technology over what works for sure, bullets, bombs, everything else naturally right. Well, and also they weren't They weren't at the cuspos to be able to make this stuff work. Right, They were working on it. They were trying to get it to work. They were like, to make some of this work, you had to have these huge facilities, these huge energy draws, like most people don't realize size. Well, the Rendall Schim incident was tied to the sizeble nuclear plant.

1:00:21 Speaker 2: It was just down the coast that all that energy was brought into the facilities that were there outside the back eight that were driving this testing and everything else. Well, they've made advancements of quantum technology and energy and so now it's ready to come off the drawing board and be utilized. Right, So they're they're trying to get their skin in the game. Even though they're older. They're all in their eighties except for Davis is a little bit younger. They're trying to get their skin in their game.

1:00:50 Speaker 2: You know, I'm younger too. But the DNA stuff ties into something totally different. That's scary. They're kind of implying that there are people here that receded here through bloodlines that aren't necessarily what the radio general population is.

1:01:07 Speaker 1: So you think that you have some sort of genetic marker or well.

1:01:13 Speaker 2: I can say that that's what they're implying. Yeah, and I have a report that implies that, But how do you verify it?

1:01:21 Speaker 1: Yeah? I got right, right right?

1:01:22 Speaker 2: A lot of this stuff is That's why I refuse to cooperate with them, because they said there was only one lab in the world that could do it too. Technically, there was another one in Europe, but the main one was was Stanford Lab, which was Nolan. How do you fact check any of this? How do you peer review it?

1:01:39 Speaker 1: Yeah?

1:01:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a dangerous road to go down.

1:01:42 Speaker 1: It is a dangerous road to go down and what I mean, so you you you did not want to play ball with that, and I think that's fair.

1:01:52 Speaker 2: But they got it anyway. And then Green came and visited me in Illinois, and once I knew you had it anyway, I just agreed. I went in my own genetics testing and to help my son because I was adopted. And then that was another game they played. They went ahead and I agreed to go on the test, but this time they didn't want my blood, they just wanted saliveas so that just reconfirmed that they already had my blood through the VA, you know, through the VA Department of War, because there was a d Department of War doctor involved in the whole thing besides the surgeon.

1:02:23 Speaker 2: But going forward, he got my saliva, did a test, and he called me back through NOH and said that my son and I are two of the most unique people in the world because I'm only a one database, that my DNA's only one database, which would go back to probably when they got it from the surgery, and my son's DNA doesn't exist anywhere. So that was all the stuff that they said took place. They sent me to reports it does say that, but how do you verify it?

1:02:54 Speaker 1: Okay, that's you know, that's that's that's fair. So but they're at least saying it and so.

1:03:01 Speaker 2: Well, that's not just my son and I. There's other they believe there's other people out there. What they haven't been clear about, at least that I'm aware of, is they've been back and forth. Are the people that have these experiences already connected to a bloodline from ancient times or were they affected by the reinteraction with the phenomenon and that.

1:03:22 Speaker 1: A changed you?

1:03:23 Speaker 2: That changes?

1:03:24 Speaker 1: Right? Is it? Is it something that we're innate you're you were innately born with or something that happened because of and maybe maybe maybe that is what they're trying to figure out.

1:03:34 Speaker 2: I don't know what they're doing, because that's again they're no different than they say they want disclosure, but they won't be They won't see you open and completely open and what they're doing and who funding it or what they're doing and what they've learned either.

1:03:48 Speaker 1: So well, yeah, I guess so. I Actually I kind of had like a respect for Gary Nolan because you know, I I I he was. I mean, you look at a CV and like you look at some of these guys's history right, how put off Eric Davis. But they're all playing both sides. They're playing.

1:04:08 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they are, They're playing. They're playing both sides. So's Loando. I don't know you're young, but do you remember the first wave of this was in the seventies and eighties and the guy that was a lou Asanda at the time was Richard Dody. Lou Asano just replaced Richard Dody. They were both counter and intel. Dody was for osis and he ran this whole counter intel. You never can make heads or tails of what was really real and what wasn't. And Alessando's done the same thing. You don't really know because he goes back and forth.

1:04:41 Speaker 2: One minute he talks about it being one way that he talks about bait being aliens and craft and and grish is the same way. I had had numerous conversations with him. And none of these guys are legit when it comes to being honest about what their goal is. They're not about disclosure. And I'll debate them tooth and nail. I'll go ahead to head with any of them. They know, first of all, they know disclosure is not going to happen because what they're involved in the government and the programs that they're aware of and going on, they know darn well this will never become public.

1:05:19 Speaker 2: Okay, just for example, you know what, you know what the F thirty five is, right, but do you know how it operates? Do not works? The best you're going to give is what Bigelow said way back to George Nap when he started this old crusade, was you'll get confirmation something's going on, but you're not going to get disclosure. He was open and honest about that way back when this all started, after he got the money from read and they worked on all this, and that's what we have. We have confirmation.

1:05:45 Speaker 2: There's no doubt the government's hiding secrets from us. There's no doubt it could be some kind of life for them. It's either here you know it's been here, or visitors here is here there We've learned some of our advancements of technology from it. That's what I mean with lou and those guys. One minute's in a dimensional one, then it's this one min it's that and stuff, and they won't even be honest. How can you believe any of this stuff is my.

1:06:10 Speaker 1: Point, Well, I mean that brings up a good a good point, right, or at least a good question. A barrier is don't you think that maybe the government, maybe the military, for all they do know that that they may have some of the same questions that we have still, like, do I think that that humans are working in underground bunkers and aliens? I? I really don't like that's. I'll entertain it, I'll talk to people, I'll hear the stories, But do I really think that that's happening. I don't know that that that that it's something that I think my worldview, or at least my right it logically says like something doesn't feel right, like it doesn't feel right with this.

1:07:06 Speaker 1: But again, I don't know everything. I've never been in the military, I've never held a clearance. I've seen things that I can't explain. I know they exist. But do I know that the government knows exactly what's going on. I don't have faith in them to get my taxes right, let alone know what the fuck a UFO really is right.

1:07:27 Speaker 2: But the thing is is that does the general government know, does general science? Does the white science world know? No, does the dark science know? You can't be developing weapons systems off of this technology if you don't have a pretty good understanding of it.

1:07:45 Speaker 1: Is kind of crazy that most of modern like if you look at modern disclosure post twenty seventeen disclosure specifically what we have right now, has all been framed in this kind of like threat narrative.

1:08:03 Speaker 2: And that was part of my problem with lou He Originally he's backed off some now, but he came on as a threat. Well, you have to create a threat to get funding. The people have to feel fear to justify. That's what they do all the time.

1:08:18 Speaker 1: You don't get we almost have it, We.

1:08:20 Speaker 2: Almost have a trillion dollar defense budget, and you know, and they just can't get enough of the piece of the pie to go forward with their their technology. But the point being is is you have to create a fear. So if you go back to what von Braun said, and a lot of this goes back to Germany, it goes back to the scientists and what they were, what they learned, what they were working on, and they brought a lot of these scientists are our country and that's how our technology started to evolve. In fact, I've had people approached me that they were in government.

1:08:55 Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't. They haven't been able to prove me what they claim. But they and the Nazis are still in this. There's a group of people that are still working from this from inside the original nuts Nazi bloodline that they're still working on this.

1:09:10 Speaker 1: But well, there was there was. I mean, uh, this is something else that people don't want to think about, let alone tack onto the UFO topic because it's such a dirty thing. But the United States was was. There was people in the United States, specifically the banking systems, uh, like JP Morgan Chase. Uh. They helped fund the rise of the Nazi Party.

1:09:41 Speaker 2: Well, the Bush family was involved.

1:09:43 Speaker 1: In Scott Bush was involved. So and there was tons of Nazi sympathizers in the United States.

1:09:51 Speaker 2: Well, actually, I don't I don't believe there were sympathizers. I'll be honest with you. All the stuff I've looked at, Eisenhower warned us before he left office. Of course, this was all put together. Have you heard of a project called Iron Mountain.

1:10:09 Speaker 1: No, you have.

1:10:10 Speaker 2: To go read about it. It was done in the seventies. It was this group of scientists got together in the facility called Iron Mountain, and they looked at how to control control people and technology and everything, and they put the book out and then Johnson, the president, they found out about it and they turned around and he said, you have to pull it. Well, it was already out, too far gone, so that these scientists came back and said it was fiction, but it wasn't. And if you just go from Iron Mountain and what they said, that's how we've evolved control.

1:10:43 Speaker 2: It's all about control, and part of control is fear and military and when you tie so much money up into the military complex, imagine what the world would be like if we only it took fifty percent of the world budget to kill each other and did it to make the better. But according to what these people felt was we would never be satisfied, so we would self destruct, be having things too well, we would we wouldn't be satisfied. We just keep wanting more. And so they had to come with the balance of keeping people off their feet, you know, off the balance, and how to control them.

1:11:23 Speaker 2: So that is exactly and people don't have to grit this, but it's true. You just have to really go look, a small group of people control of the world.

1:11:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I do believe in like you know, Daniel in a way, who was part of the Gang eight that that did give the money to or was working with Harry Reid to get that money put aside for us up which you know then conveniently went to Harry Reid's buddy from Las Vegas, Robert Bigelow. He says he had the best, best bid. And you know, I mean whatever, we we we do things our friends, uh, and we do things for our constituency. So uh, you know, whatever it is, what it is. But we look at we look at the topic of UFOs.

1:12:12 Speaker 1: And again again, you talk to anybody on the street, You walk up to anybody and say what is the UFO and they're gonna immediately think small gray, big eyes, big head like alien, the archetypal alien. And I think that is a huge issue that we are going to face going forward, when in fact that you has always been and stood for unidentified. Now what the government knows, what the government understands, and what they're hiding from us, well right now, until they can come out and tell me, or until I can get evidence of it, that I can't operate with any There.

1:12:51 Speaker 2: Is evidence though, the problem is people don't want to accept it. Like Project Condine lays out a lot of what UAPs are and why the government wants to study him and everything. It was a declassified report the British government did. They got released in two thousand and six. That was part of my evidence presented from my settlement case. And in Project Condine it admits that the people were involved in RENTOLSM were exposed to the UAP radiation. Okay, so Project Condine is a roadmap to what a UAP is.

1:13:23 Speaker 2: The gray area is what is the difference between the UAP and a UFO. Now, if you go back to a book called Maraje Man in a documentary they did, Green and those guys are in it, and the guy Pilgington did it. Of course, I said he didn't believe in any of this until he met this group, and then he believes there's something to it and it's being hidden. But Green said he was quoted in this book kind of paraphrasing, but he said, what we've been told and what's real is different. And once the American public in the world understands the difference, they won't be as terrified by it as when they started with war of the worlds going forward.

1:14:01 Speaker 2: We have the condition to believe what aliens and craft are and everything else for generations, and that's not really what we're dealing with. Well, before Mitchell died, I got the medium personally and talked to him a couple of times. He told me Condinne's real and what they talk about, and Condinne is what we're dealing with.

1:14:20 Speaker 1: Mitchell was what number was he on the moon?

1:14:26 Speaker 2: I don't I don't remember. I want to say eleven, but I don't remember.

1:14:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're right in the same ballpark. So, but Edgar Mitchell is really the He's such an interesting character.

1:14:40 Speaker 3: So what he.

1:14:42 Speaker 1: Given your research and given what happened to you, you got sick, you got can you talk to me about? So talk to me about what happened to you physically that well.

1:14:56 Speaker 2: Right after the event, I didn't feel good, but there was nothing directly. I aven't had little vision problems. When I came back from England, I got sick in the summertime. I don't think it was really related to the incident. I just got sick. But I was away from the base. I couldn't travel back, so I had to go to the Mercy room to get checked out so that they knew I was sick. When I went to the mercy room, they found a heart murmur. The doctor, the merchcy room doctor wanted to know what the military I thought about my heart murmur and so I don't have one.

1:15:24 Speaker 2: He goes, well you do. So from that point it went forward with that. That's when I went back to the base and they brought a doctor for right Patterson. He evaluated me, sent me, Yeah, at the time, I didn't know any of this. You have to understand, okay. So then he came in, evaluated me, sent me the right pat and they did a bunch of tests on me. So it came back and told me that he thought it was one thing and was going to have to do surgery right away, but it wasn't. They would continue to monitor tur me and that's how it ended.

1:15:57 Speaker 2: And all that's in my records, including all the testing they did on my heart and everything, and that's what my civilian doctor wanted when I got sick, and that's what's classified. The other issue that's classified is my eyes started having vision problems. Ended up at Wolfer Hall at Lachlan, and they evaluated me. The first thing this vescial has said was have you been exposed to radiation before? I'm like, nothing, I'm aware of but because I didn't know what could have happened to us there and stuff, I actually had orders for Korean and he tried to keep me from going to Korea because they couldn't treat the issues I was having, which ended up I found out later was really to my heart too, and they sent me anyway, The DoD made me go to England and you didn't know about this.

1:16:41 Speaker 2: I'll go to the Korea. I didn't know about this till later. But this is right when everything broke with the news of the world and all the stories came out and they were chasing us. So I was at Kson, cal got moved to Coonson and the packapp commander was Gordon Williams. So they hid the three of us over there and pack A because it was hard for the press to get over there.

1:17:04 Speaker 1: Did they did they ever?

1:17:08 Speaker 2: Like?

1:17:08 Speaker 1: Is there any truth to the the idea that that you guys got called into the uh like the office and and UH hit with sodium sodium?

1:17:19 Speaker 2: Well that's what Penniston says, that that he was actually under hypnosis. It comes out that he was interrogated and he was as sodium pentathologies. I don't remember that happening. A lot of people claim I was called in and interrogated. I don't remember it all. I don't remember. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

1:17:37 Speaker 1: But what was the base's official reaction to the events immediately after?

1:17:42 Speaker 2: Was it?

1:17:42 Speaker 1: Like?

1:17:42 Speaker 2: No, I don't know, because that was the backstory. I lived off Bass, so I wasn't in the dorm. The dorm was crazy about it. They were they I guess they went in. They went into the dorms and were searching for some pictures that were supposedly taken. A bunch of stuff went on on the base itself and the dorms. I lived downtown, so I really wasn't prey in any of those stuff that went on on the base.

1:18:06 Speaker 1: You just said pictures. Do you think there is actual video out there or pictures.

1:18:10 Speaker 2: Of there was pictures taken. Now, the question is they often supposed it came back fogged. That doesn't mean he did. I mean, were clothed pictures taken out with thirty five millimeter cameras.

1:18:23 Speaker 1: And the base would obviously have some sort of if there was cameras at all. I mean this base would have them for security right now.

1:18:34 Speaker 2: It was all done through Everything was done through the photo lab. So yeah, the base would have had access to the picture.

1:18:41 Speaker 1: I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

1:18:44 Speaker 2: Well that was part of what has been claimed. General Gabriel, who was the commander of Europe, came in right afterwards, took the reports, took the bladders. There was there was audio besides the hall tape. Every radio transmission that took place was reported at the command post and that was held for a month. All that was taken. So everything that went on during that event, all the radio transmission and all that was taken.

1:19:09 Speaker 1: In classes, taken by higher ups.

1:19:11 Speaker 2: And well it was taken by Gabriel. Yeah, he came in and got a briefing on it and then took all the evidence with him.

1:19:18 Speaker 1: And did he ever wanted to speak Did he ever want to speak to you guys?

1:19:22 Speaker 2: He's never, no, we never that I'm aware of. It was the interrogation was done by the people involved that remembered said it was OSI, but not on our base. It was outside os I most likely D I A, C I A and the Navy.

1:19:37 Speaker 1: Was what people kind of call the men in black, right.

1:19:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the men in Black. Yeah. It's an investigative group that comes in and looks at this stuff.

1:19:48 Speaker 1: Right and and and they just probably I mean arrow did it. They they after you testify, they kindly like I had Tim Phillips to kind of say this to me, and he's like, you know, we we hear the testimony that we kindly remind them of their oaths and there yea.

1:20:06 Speaker 2: But that's that was one of the reasons why I wouldn't go up there. I was there was a contract that was working for Rubio. He wasn't actually an aide. He was a contractor that contacted me and my attorney, and they didn't want my attorney to come up. They wanted me to come up. He was going to be a take me personally to the Aero Committee and take me to the Gang of Eight, but no attorney was going to be allowed. He was going to represent me and I had to sign a non disclosure.

1:20:36 Speaker 1: That's odd.

1:20:37 Speaker 2: Well, they didn't want me to talk about what we talked about, right right. And I was supposed to get to meet Hobby Log and they also promised me gristed that I would get to go to a classified briefing at NORA ed about all of this taken place. I refused to go. They were shocked that I wouldn't go up there, and I've got for people to say that I'm making it up. I don't. There was an article written by Toby Martinez through the Roswell Daily. I provided them all the emails, the evidence, and he wrote the article on it.

1:21:07 Speaker 2: And I still all the emails interactions I had with these different people and agencies that they wanted me up there again. Two reasons. Number one, I'm not signing an NDA and number two, I am not going to go up there unless they get the VA, Department of Defense to admit exactly what they know about the case.

1:21:28 Speaker 1: And me, so you have, yeah, it's exactly, you have stipulations and yeah.

1:21:34 Speaker 2: Because it's just again, it's a good story that I could testify and I've got some evidence. I've got more of it in the most most I've got the settlement. Yeah, but I still the government has never Billy Cox was a reporter that actually followed up on it, and the response was from the door the VA was the same they just gave to those guys from Area fifty one that are suing the government for injuries. Each individual case is identified, you know, is always identified separately. Whatever takes place will not be released or talked about by the government other than they say that if you get any kind of compensation or treatment, then it has to be tied directly to an event that took place during you know, what happened to you was involving the government itself, whether it was on active duty or if you were working as a contractor and everything else.

1:22:24 Speaker 2: So you can't get a settlement unless you can prove you injured in the line of duty, which we were, and our settlement was directly to the Rentals Force event.

1:22:33 Speaker 1: And that's what I mean, so by by by the definition of like even some of these debunkers, the rendalsrom case has everything from physical evidence to to.

1:22:49 Speaker 2: You know, well, here's yeah, you have the memo, you have the tape, you have the fact the government and a minute it took place. You have two individuals that were working incident, and we're injured by it. So it's a verifiable, viable incident exactly. But the problem is you still don't have an answer my settlement. They didn't. They accepted it, but they didn't say why they accepted it other than the evidence presented, And they didn't say what injured me. Nor will any of the doctors that I ever deal with the treat me.

1:23:21 Speaker 2: They will never tell me what they know or what's going on. And it's only a limited amount of doctors that can deal with my heart, my eyes.

1:23:30 Speaker 1: Of course it would be a specialist. Yeah, you know, and and so in your experience, I want to go back to one more thing. Okay, before you get zapped the first like you know, the first time and again sounds kind of similar to like a Travis Walton scenario, but I'm just obviously just drawing, painting a picture for the audience that's listening. But before you get before you get struck, and then you know, lights out, do you remember any smells, what shape did you see? What colors?

1:24:10 Speaker 2: Well, the lighting that the third night was like a it was an orangish kind of rustic color. It was a big, big, like glob of light, which at the time, like I understand why people have incidents say that could be us because both nights one and three we walked out of there. We couldn't explain it, and where else could it be that maybe something from somewhere else. But once you, once I dug into it, I could see how we could have been involved or created that effect or been part of that effect. But the point being is what I saw both nights were lights, peniston, you know, and a phenomenon effect including you know, there was like a frequency effect.

1:24:58 Speaker 2: My hair on my back of my head stood up. But I don't remember any smell and anything else other than the other thing. I remember at some point it felt like time was slowing down, like you were not moving. Things didn't seem right with what we were in. So those are the main effects that I remember both nights.

1:25:20 Speaker 1: Sorry I was muted, so no, you said the hairs kind of raised. No ozone smell that you can remember.

1:25:26 Speaker 2: No, I don't remember.

1:25:27 Speaker 1: Okay, well that's and again I think others.

1:25:33 Speaker 2: I think some other people may have. Some other people remember different things and stuff, but this is what I remember.

1:25:40 Speaker 1: And do you you said you don't recall, Like, is there any memory of whether it was through regression? Even though I'm not a huge fan of regression. I do you think some memories can be implanted or at least maybe exaggerated to a degree, But is there anything that you remember from the time that you get hit to when you come to no.

1:26:08 Speaker 2: I did go into regression in eighty eight. They actually I just got out of active. It was in the reserves and they were doing the show called UFO Cover Up Live, so they had approached me to go on the show. I got flown out to LA I met with the executive producer's name was Kurt Brubaker. Forget the guy that was the producer for the show, but ended up working with brew Baker, and Brewbaker actually convinced me not to go on UFO Cover Up Live. It was after I met with him and talked about everything, and he wanted to He was looking He had a company called Brewbaker Group.

1:26:41 Speaker 2: Brubaker was tied originally to the lyric jet John Leir. Then he worked for GM and he worked with Kit Green. I didn't know that at the time, but later I found out. So he was a technical guy. He was looking at this from a technical standpoint, so he talked me out of it. One of the things that we did do is I did regression in nineteen eighty eight. There's a clip of an online on the YouTube. It's ten minute clip and it just shows a little bit about what came out under regression. But what did come out was we never got to the point where what happened when I went in it, but we got into it what it could be.

1:27:14 Speaker 2: And actually, in my regression, it told me that it would be back for me at some point. What, Yeah, it would come back for me. It said that. And what was weird was and again I can't prove this part of it, so it's kind of in the book Veritas Obscira. But I had different people from different agencies approached me in different ways. I did another hypnosis through US, through Stanford and somebody else, and through the intelligence agencies. And the interesting thing was they believed, according to what they told me, was I could communicate with the phenomenon in my in my original hypnosis, I was actually communicating real time with the phenomenon.

1:28:00 Speaker 1: That's an interesting thought right.

1:28:02 Speaker 2: Now, that's what they claim I there. It is very interesting this. I haven't ever showed it other than a ten minute clip. And I've always said if people thought the binary code blew the case up, if they saw this hypnosis tape from beginning, it would it would completely go come on. And remember this was done in eighty eight. This wasn't done. This was done way before all the modern stuff that's come out. This was and everything that came out. When I came out of it and I saw the tape, I was like, what.

1:28:31 Speaker 1: You really don't remember saying.

1:28:32 Speaker 3: Any of that?

1:28:33 Speaker 2: No, I was completely out. The guy that did it was an LAPD cop. He was trained in this, and he was a guy that was trained in traumatic hypnosis to bring out experiences. So this wasn't like somebody that.

1:28:46 Speaker 1: Was just pulled out, Like was there any was it? Like? The was the light talk? Because you've the light.

1:28:53 Speaker 2: Was actually the actual end the hypnosis. The life form is the intelligence.

1:28:58 Speaker 1: That's that's what I mean. So you didn't see like a being, No, but you saw the craft and it was the one communicating to you I'll be back.

1:29:07 Speaker 2: Yes it was. It was the light that was communicating. It was the life for him.

1:29:11 Speaker 1: Yes, that is fucking crazy.

1:29:14 Speaker 2: And that's partly why put Off was interested in me because it ties into what he did with Stargate and consciousness and everything else, which is another whole thing that they're working on because AI's taking over everything, so they're trying to find a way to put a human consciousness to control AI. Yeah, it's all going on. But I knew about this ten years ago when I went down there. They were looking at all that back.

1:29:39 Speaker 1: The next gen fighters are going to have AI, they're going.

1:29:42 Speaker 2: To be well they already do. There's so by AI.

1:29:46 Speaker 1: And you know the next like so think about that in two thousand and four. If what you're saying is true, of course, and I and again I'm not I'm with you. You're saying that there was technology that through a helmet, you know, you could control and F sixteen or thirty five or no, it was a helmet.

1:30:09 Speaker 2: The helmet was being was introduced during the nimesisciment in favor of a minute to that. It was the next.

1:30:16 Speaker 1: Generation two thousand and four, right, but.

1:30:19 Speaker 2: The actual helmet was modified and it really came into play the actual it was being it was being modified as we launch, so it was part of the F eighteen. But the real technology helmet is the F thirty five helmet, right, that's the final.

1:30:37 Speaker 1: Complete and utor control.

1:30:39 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well there's pictures that came out and that got pulled Norfolk Grumblin did it and stuff where the F thirty five through the pilot can control all different kinds of weapons, systems and stuff. The airplane can have missiles flying off the airplane, drones, all kinds of stuff, and it's all controlled through the aircraft and the pilot's mind, the helmet and a lot of the stuff. People say, how the C seventeen. What happens is the plane takes off, okay, and then the seventeen is up in the air and all this armament is dropped down and meets up with the aircraft and it's protected in the bubble of the aircraft, which creates the stealth effect.

1:31:22 Speaker 2: The actual the F seventeen, it was somewhat the shape and the paint, but it generated a plasma field around it that made it invisible. The radar, it's not. It's that's the key to this. But the original fighter had a piece that they had to attach to it before it left. The new fighters have it within the skin of the plane itself. That creates the generation effect. The zoom Wall class destroyer has that effect. They put a picture out where they showed it cloaking, disappearing and coming back. Is it being able to do that because it has the technology and the computing systems in it to make it disappear, cloak into a different dimension.

1:32:03 Speaker 1: So so and again, you know, bits and pieces of truth start to come out, like you know, HELPU it off in Eric Davis and this new age of disclosure documentary. You know, I watch everything that comes out because I like to get a the fullest picture I can because I know what So, you know, some of what's being said is bullshit, but there's always like the best disinformation has information. So I try to glean when I can from everything. So I'll watch what Greer puts out, I'll watch what James Fox puts out, I'll put watch what just all of them, I consume it all and then I try to sift through it as best I can.

1:32:45 Speaker 1: That's that's my that's what I do. Yeah, Yeah, And you.

1:32:53 Speaker 2: Have to learn how to separate bullshit from.

1:32:56 Speaker 1: Real exactly exactly. And that's why I like people always ask me, like, why are you friends with guys like John Alexander.

1:33:04 Speaker 2: Well, Alexander is actually the guy that knows more about this than anybody, anybody you want this almost He actually worked on the technology called non lethal web systems.

1:33:18 Speaker 1: He's the father of no use.

1:33:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know John Well, I do. In fact, he was the one who told me that that's how they got my DNA.

1:33:26 Speaker 1: I I email with that guy all the every week and I talk.

1:33:31 Speaker 2: I just remember John's spook, and he's not going to give you anything that's already not going to be made or has been made public.

1:33:38 Speaker 1: I And that's that's the criticism I get, of course. And they say he's trying to I say no, I keep everyone at an arm's length and I know what their role is.

1:33:49 Speaker 2: But you can't. You can't. No one can say you're being influenced. As far as what I mean by that is, if you're just a person who listens to what somebody says and runs with it, yeah you're being influence. But if you're willing to do your own research and look at everything from an open mind, then then that's what I did. And I had to do that for self preservation to live. I was dying and I dug into this, and then I went further with this because people ask why I just didn't shut up. I tried, but Green and that group wouldn't let me.

1:34:19 Speaker 2: If you've been following this, and you know, I get talked about a cult cart at least once a month or every other month, they talk about me and my DNA and all that. No one talks about me. Other people bring me up all the time because they've introduced this DNA the whole shebang. Never mind, And what I try to do is at least be honest on what I believe and the fact that I don't trust them. I don't trust any of them. But I will say this, if you want to know the real Smoky Man is, it's a toss up between Green and put Off from you know, the X Files.

1:34:54 Speaker 2: Those two are and Alexander. Those three guys are the real deal. They know what's going on. Yeah, tell you what's going on. And if you've ever dealt with them directly and sat down with them like I have, you think you know what you're talking about right up until you walk away, and then the next thing you know,

1:35:14 Speaker 2: and then you go back and you're it's totally it's a different world. These guys are a whole in a different world. But these guys are definitely in the know of what's going on inside these projects. And one of the things that they said was, and that's another thing, they've never got these guys to testify.

1:35:32 Speaker 1: It fucking blows my mind. That you know, uh we Eric Davis right, like help put off? There they were they were doing that thing in Congress where it was for like the UAP Disclosure Fund. Yeah, and you know, Eric Davis a sin. They're talking about like different types of aliens and ship and How's there and Abby's there and and all this, and I'm like, what are we? What do we fucking doing? Guys? What do we They should be you should be calling them in under oath to tell like this is why are we fucking wasting our time with this?

1:36:12 Speaker 1: Like I get why they were doing it, but they should also have been asking them like, hey, Eric, I need to know about the Wilson Davis memo. I want to know more about that. That's what you're most famously known for. Let me like, let me bring you into a skiff and let's talk about it.

1:36:28 Speaker 2: But but see they couldn't. He couldn't. But he can't talk about it. The guy, like I said, the guy that's most no, the guy that was the most honest, Inness was the guy I forget, the guy that testified in the last hearing. Yeah, when they got to him, he said, I can't talk about any of this unless we go on the skiff, and even then you're not I'm not going to be able to talk to you about it anyway, because you don't have the clinics to know about this, and I don't have the permission to talk about it from the agencies that I work with.

1:36:58 Speaker 2: And that is the truth. That is the underlying truth. Congress, except maybe a few people in the gang of a even have a clearance or the need to know what's going on.

1:37:10 Speaker 1: But do you see the people's point? Do you do you see the regular like person, do you see the point in if if say they were to go in a skiff and they were to tell member of Congress, a, let's just we will put names nobody about it, right?

1:37:29 Speaker 2: What if they did?

1:37:29 Speaker 1: Yeah? What if they didn't, who's gonna like, are they gonna arrest this person to throw them in the brig and the like? And then and then have not have Congress? Like the regular person is like, what just just just tell them, just tell them, no one's gonna come arrest you. No one's gonna come do that.

1:37:48 Speaker 2: That's not true. Though, that's not true.

1:37:50 Speaker 1: Though, right, that's not true.

1:37:53 Speaker 2: National security trumps everything, whether you like it or not. That's one of the arguments I get about my records, They say, I have an access to my rec You don't have access to anything that involves a military incident if you're in the military, if it's classified.

1:38:06 Speaker 1: Well, then we're caught in between a rock and a hard place, because now what we do have is a bunch of d D preapproved quote unquote whistleblowers, which is that's not the term. That is not the term for someone who goes through pre publication through the DoD gets exactly what they're able to talk about cleared by the d D. They are not a whistleblower.

1:38:31 Speaker 2: No, but you can't think though, that's the whole thing. Plus, you're not protected, You're only protected, Okay. Whistleblower status is this, You're supposed to follow a protocol. And let's say, for example, I'm working on a project that I feel is being misused or something I'm not supposed to go public with it. I'm not protected technically by whistlebow says, I'm supposed to go to the Inspector General General and they are evaluating them through clearance procedures. Then they go into these agencies and then the Inspector General is not going to get the answer either SAP programs are are excluded from just about everybody.

1:39:14 Speaker 2: The only people that have access to them are the people working on the programs and even within the program is.

1:39:21 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:39:22 Speaker 2: And that's why when when everybody calls me, they don't like me. But it's true, you're never going to get disclosure. You're never going to get the answers. You don't get the answers for how our radars work, our aircraft fry, how they go stealth, how our weapon systems work, where our deployments are exactly, unless they want you to know any of that stuff. So I'll classify people are okay with that, but then they somehow think that then they're going to blow the whistle and tell you everything we know about our exotic technology and how we get aspect, how we're utilizing and everything else.

1:39:54 Speaker 1: This is not gonna happen, okay. So in your educated experience, with all all the research that you've done, what so what do you think you interacted.

1:40:09 Speaker 2: With I think I went into a time Daishim bubble and I survived it somehow. One of the things that was interesting that I did learn was my genetics were such that normally a mitro valve. You have two leaflets, I had a third, so I should have died on the spot. But because I had an extra leaflet, it protected me enough that it kept me alive for a few years, you know, and it protected my heart. Was valve was damaged by what we were exposed to going into it, but I had an extra valve that was in the medical stuff that I was able to get my hands on.

1:40:42 Speaker 2: So I also think it's possible that there are people that genetics. I mean, it's clear, it's possible. It's real people have different genetics, but it may have been my genetics were more susceptible to survive this. So for a fact, they clearly were interested in me because I did have an encounter. I did it, survived something. But what's unknown is other than it's a UAP, which is an unidentified aerial phenomenon. Exactly the nuts and bolts of it are I don't one hundred percent. No, I've gotten a better grasp of it through declassified documents and everything else, to include the Marx generator was involved.

1:41:17 Speaker 2: I've been in the fight with the mold for seven months and it started out with I asked a bunch of questions and they came back and said, well, there's too much questions here, too much knowledge that you want to know. We have it, but we won't give it to you because it's going to cost too much. Then they came back and said, keep narrowing it down. When I narrowed it down to certain points, they said, oh, well, we don't know anything on it. I'm in a debate with the DOE right now. I'm in a five thousand person of five thousand foy a Q right now on their utilization of Marx generators and projects that I found out about.

1:41:50 Speaker 1: Do you are you leaning more towards one or another?

1:41:54 Speaker 2: Like? I think it's both. I think there is. There is for sure there is. Your EPs are real and it's unidentified aerial phenomena. I don't necessarily believe it's a biological being. It's an energy forces, it's intelligent in nature, it's able to do these different things. It probably is interdimensional travel just because it involves time dilation, which is technically interdimensional travel. I think that these scientists that are involved know it. I think some of the reason why it's becoming more prevalent they want to utilize it is because of the advance, but to quantum.

1:42:27 Speaker 2: Quantum is what makes us work. The computing couldn't keep up with the technology to make it work on these things. Put Off got a contract with the BISMA for working on tanks to make them cloak and recloak. One of the problems that they had was it was supposed to go from A to B and it showed up way over somewhere else. So the computing power couldn't keep up with the time change to bring it back to where it started.

1:42:55 Speaker 1: You know, what is that similar to what happened with like say, the Philadelphia EXPERI.

1:43:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Marx generator goes back to the Philadelphia experiment. It goes back to Tesla. So something probably the Philadelphi experiment was took place. It's just got completely blown out of proportion to keep people from even accepting it possible, right, and it all goes back up. Frequencies and manipulation of time.

1:43:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, sound, light, frequency seemed to.

1:43:22 Speaker 2: Be and the coloring, the coloring that you see represents different frequencies. Bruce mcabee's past now was big into that, and I did a show with him and he broke down what the different coloring meant when you saw it within within what this object or you know, was.

1:43:39 Speaker 1: Doing, right, I have, I have kind of gotten into I think I've researched into that, and it's kind of weird when you think about it again from a linear standpoint. You know, in the in the fifties, grab like the Science Popular Mechanics, all all the rage was we're about to crack gravity, like we're about to crack gravity. The g engines are coming and then it goes dark, right, it goes black, and it's never heard of again. And I don't think that's because they didn't do it. I think it's because the black programs and the advent of the national security state allowed the infrastructure for it to get compartmentalized, to be brought under the banner of national security.

1:44:32 Speaker 1: And that's where things get murky, because then you know, by the time Eisenhower does warn us, he's lost control of this thing called the military industrial complex because you can't do anything in the military and the government with with it being susceptible to FLOYA and freedom of information. Right, these chips are balances, so you need to push it out to contractors, but that brings in liability, so then you have these this real mockery that happened between the government and the private contractors because who holds the ownership.

1:45:08 Speaker 2: Well, if you really want to understand the contract part of it, watch the movie Angels Has Fallen and it doesn't go into UFOs, but it talks about how falling Angels has fallen. It's a movie, and it talks about how the contract companies control our government more than people realize. Like right before we put out of Afghanistan, there was twenty thousand personneled over there, fifteen thousand and were contractors. Only five thousand military personnel were there. So the contract companies control of this and that's how they hide all this stuff.

1:45:39 Speaker 2: It's under the patent rules, the laws, and everything else. And most people don't even know where to start because if you don't even know which company exists and what project they're working on, which goes back to SAP programs. And again God God helped these congress people. But they don't even know what they're voting on. They don't they've admitted they don't even know where the money, what projects, this money's going through. They just have a number, Well, this project needs five billion, this project needs and they vote on it.

1:46:09 Speaker 2: But then they complain that they complain that they don't have oversight. Well, it's that's the way the systems come to it's they control.

1:46:17 Speaker 1: It, and it's all time to do that.

1:46:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's designed to keep a secret, whether you agree with it or not. Then you go into the whole UFO thing was how we been lied from from the beginning on our own existence.

1:46:33 Speaker 1: You now getting into like some obviously we're going to get into some speculative territory. I would love to have you back on the show, Okay, to do as many parts maybe, well we'll talk off air, but I would love to bring you in.

1:46:48 Speaker 2: Well, I think you need to read the book when it comes out of it. It goes into all this stuff. It's an open book I'm putting out. I'm talking about every involvement, everything I had, everything I've learned, all the I have avoided from the mold admitting that they actually have developed UAP technology.

1:47:04 Speaker 1: You fin because it seemed you seemed to see through the bullshit.

1:47:09 Speaker 2: And but here's the thing. You have to understand something. Two things opened up my eyes. One, I was dying, but I was also in most of the guys that were involved in this incident got out. I stayed in until two thousand and four, but I technically was until six. I was deployed for Bosnia and for Tora Bora and for the invasion of Iraq, and I was exposed to technology I can't talk about.

1:47:37 Speaker 1: You were listened during the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

1:47:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I stayed in. I got out of active in eighty eight, but stayed in reserve because of my specialty. I got pulled back in constantly, and I was brought back in after nine to eleven, and I deployed overseas. I was involved in the Bosni incident, which no one, nobody knows half of what really went on with that, when when that went on with Clinton and special operations, and then I was involved with Tora Bora, which was the whole thing having to do with Osama Ban.

1:48:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that was involved.

1:48:12 Speaker 2: And that was involved in the Iraqi invasion. I was, in fact, I was in a classified site that's still playing a part and everything that's going on right now for this day over there and all the technology that was involved back then, so what was utilized open my eyes and opened my eyes. In fact, some of the stuff I saw helped explain what happened to us in rentals for us.

1:48:34 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I would love. That's why I want to I think I want to bring you either come to you or after the book comes out, of course I'll read it. And what is it called? So i'll the book.

1:48:45 Speaker 2: Is when we get it out, it's going to be called Project Reynolds from Crossing the Threshold. Now I don't have the name of the book. I wish I did, but I wrote an eighty four page book that came out in May and a guy just evaluated it's involved in technology. He was That particular book lays out all the agencies that are involved, including an agency you probably never heard of called net Assessment. Now that goes back to the exotic technology. And the guy that was involved with this is cossign was Yoda and his name was Andy Marshall, and he ran this agency called the Net Assessment and it just got disbanded.

1:49:24 Speaker 2: Now I can't confirm that when I put the book out they disbanded it, but right after the book hit the shelves, the Net Assessment Office was disbanded. And this really goes I don't know, but it really goes into the in depth part of the agencies and the technology that they've been working on and how they've developed it. It's an eighty four page book, and that was to set up this next book for Crossing the.

1:49:50 Speaker 1: Threshold Crossing the Threshold as well, and that will be available.

1:49:54 Speaker 2: It should be hopefully before the end of the month. And still we've got a lot of things. I'm still trying to te have the Foyer stuff. They drugged me on for months with their really yeah, with not giving me answers and lead me on and and everything else, and the DOE.

1:50:11 Speaker 1: But ultimately then the government shut down happens and they just.

1:50:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, but that they shut the net Assessment Office off and most people don't even know what that is.

1:50:22 Speaker 1: Just real.

1:50:22 Speaker 2: We get the book, say, four page book. I'll send it to you afterwards. I wish I had it written down, but it really goes into the agencies and the evolvement, especially in that assessment off.

1:50:33 Speaker 1: Okay, so is it? Am I on the right track and thinking? Okay, so an age of disclosure the one Again, I'm not saying that everything in that is is accurate or even true. Again, I think you have a bunch of intelligence guys telling you their version of the story, which is the pre publicized d O D version of the story. So beside that, what they talk about is is the overseeing the arch. The dog that ties it all together is the CIA. And then under that you have DOE, you have DOE Department, Department of Energy, the Air Force, and oh there was one other that I was thinking of, but you said, and then there's and then there's the NATSK thing.

1:51:30 Speaker 2: It was in that assessment office. Andy Marshall was the father of all anxiety technology. His group worked.

1:51:37 Speaker 4: On all that.

1:51:38 Speaker 2: And not only that, but he was he groomed all the Secretary of States right through Bill Gates, and he was involved in the actual of falling of Russia. He was part of the Russian doctrine and and stuff with SDI and everything else. This guy, he's past now, but he he Obama got rid of him. Trump brought him back under first administration, and then he passed after Trump came out of office. But he actually that office is neck deep in all this. But all I'm saying is when they put this book out right afterwards, they actually and I have confirmed it.

1:52:15 Speaker 2: In that assessment they made an announcement through the Department of War that that was disbanded, but it's still there. They've just moved it into two or three other agencies of course. But here's the key. You can't get any information because the agency doesn't exist anymore. So you can't do any foya, which I did. I actually did some FOYA on the that Assessment office.

1:52:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, because because now when you look for it, no, no such program exists.

1:52:40 Speaker 2: No, it's been disbanded, ye, right.

1:52:42 Speaker 1: So that that becomes a huge issue in the FOYA process. So I can't even imagine. So I just I want to get into a little bit of speculation. But when you look at things like the pyramids or these megalithic structures across the globe, and the idea of religion and what it what it means, right, like the themes and the common threads that seem to tie these origin stories together. Have you have you looked at any of that and pondered, you know, the the were they seeing the same things that you're seeing and you experience through a different lens and with a different length, like you know, obviously different a different lens they're looking at it through.

1:53:36 Speaker 1: They don't have quite the vernacular we do so we call it aliens, they call it gods. I mean, have you ever you can.

1:53:44 Speaker 2: Go to different cultures through the history of this planet and they they there's different stuff the natives through on the walls, different things that that we're written about it. Unfortunately, the first thing that happened, which is in this book that I just put out, Vistair Scira Echoed Protocol, which is science fiction book, but it really goes into how the balance was taken away from Earth when they completely destroyed the Western hemisphere. They came over from Europe and destroyed the cultures.

1:54:19 Speaker 2: They were a belief system, everything that they had, everything they believed in, what they worshiped as gods, and everything else that was all destroyed. Now leglie the Vatican has some of it hidden, but the Mayas and all that. But they completely unbalanced the earth itself when they completely eliminated all that. And you have to go back and ask yourself why were there two different the East and the West. And then you have to ask they they want to call this the old World, and it's actually the New World.

1:54:49 Speaker 2: And even Churchill said the new it called it the New World, not the Old World. So the New World came over and destroyed the Old world came over and destroyed the New World, and the cult so and Catholicism, it took over a lot of it early and now we're now Muslims are becoming more and more prevalent, Yeah, prominent. But I'm just saying there's always been a battle with cultures religion. What they could have seen or not seen. I was told by somebody in government that still in government, that just substitute alien for God, and you have your answer.

1:55:27 Speaker 1: That's what and and and again, like that's how I'm looking at it and seeing it is. You know what if what we're experiencing now is what our ancestors experienced and tried to tell us through their own language. I mean, obviously like a fire breathing dragon in the sky. You know what does that sound like? Well, it sounds like, you know, a rocket or something right, shooting fire out the There's a book.

1:55:56 Speaker 2: Out there and I can't think of the name of I'm working on something with that right now, but I'm not trying to hold the book back. But it was a NASA official tried to discredit, uh, the von Donicans work, and he couldn't do it. It's all and he looked at it, and but he said, what was reported in the Bible is chariots and stuff was probably alien ships or something to the fact that came here and visited Earth and seated Earth. Well, that's funny.

1:56:25 Speaker 1: Not to interrupt you, but the common theme being that this this being you know, and Jesus said it too, so down to you know, Christianity. The same message that you got from that craft, I that you'll it'll be coming back. That's the theme, right this this God always always promises that they'll return.

1:56:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Well, that's part of the book I'm talking about. I talk about how we messed up everything. But the big threat right in humanity is actually AI through NHI, so not human intelligence is controlling AI. So and what people don't understand about AI, it's just like what they did with DNA. That DNA stuff that they've done where everybody sends their DNA and analyze is going into a major database that that there, I know, but they're studying they're studying all the DNA out there, So what they're studying is a lot different than what they're giving your report back on.

1:57:31 Speaker 2: But the real true DNA study has to come through blood is not through saliva. That's the nuts and bolts. That's where ours was. Mine was done through saliva through a lab in Pennsylvania. But the study that put off on those guys working was a blood drop and that was what That's when they can get down to the nitty gritty, which by the Hope Hopey claim that the secrets are hidden in our DNA. They've always said that the secrets are and that's what they were looking at, and the genetic markers and what bloodlines do they come back to go back to and everything else.

1:58:06 Speaker 2: Plus the mind is self's only being used about ten percent, But so they were studying the mind to see the markers in the mind and stuff like that. So these are real studies they were doing, but they're not giving any real reports on what they've learned.

1:58:22 Speaker 1: Isn't it weird that the same people in Silicon Valley like they're they're they're racing, they're they're sprinting with AI when they should be you know, slow crawling, and then they're trying to warn like the Peter Tiels of the world. They worry me because you know, when he's not doing defense contracts and investing in these you know, companies, uh and running talent here. You know, he's giving four part lectures on the Antichrist and and it's like it's it's very weird to me the ties between Silicon Valley and what they're doing right now, and you know some of the esoteric things, Uh, well have you?

1:59:15 Speaker 2: I mean you can always you can always show the Antichrist. And I mean that's one of the things that's supposed to go on inside government they're fighting over is what aliens are, the Antichrist, the fallen angels. But again, there's not enough evidence to support it one way or another. You have to go off of what we've been told. But what I do believe, based on what I was exposed to and documents and everything else, that AI is a danger because it takes away our critical thinking skills.

1:59:49 Speaker 1: It just just like how I mean, you know this better probably of course better than I do. But I remember I used to know every single person's phone number. You know, there was a time when when GPS GPS didn't exist, and there was a time when like the Magellan GPS because my dad owned a moving company, so GPS is like the ones that you could get in the car. The Magellan ones though that was like top tier technology at the time because it allowed you to then start like driving and and and getting the fastest route and but and then with phones and and all that, like you you you stopped being able to retain information in our wa Well, you.

2:00:34 Speaker 2: Can't make change or anything, right. Most people don't even know how to spell. They they have a general idea and they let spell check pick care.

2:00:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, or they don't even teach cursive in school anymore.

2:00:47 Speaker 2: Read regular time.

2:00:48 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean so it makes me.

2:00:51 Speaker 2: So, but but it is. And what they don't understand what the AI. If you go like in the chat GBT, it's kind of like Star Trek and the board. Okay, I have my own account, so everything that I research and go into goes into that is saved. But then all my stuff goes into another bigger account. So everything people are curious about, everything you're working on, all the stuff is going into a collective. And so AI and NHI is learning about what we know, what we could do and how to manipulate us.

2:01:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're giving it, you know, John, I was actually terrified. I know I have a friend and I'm not going to say the name because I Honestly, if she hears it, she'll know who she is. And if you do hear this, I'm sorry I'm telling this story, but it concerns me. I was talking to this person. This person doesn't even have fucking Facebook or Twitter or anything. They they've and I've always had such respect for this person's ability to stay off social media, and like, you know, I used to tell people like, hey, I have this one friend you know that's not on social media.

2:02:08 Speaker 1: And uh, we got to talking the other night and I didn't. She started talking to me about how she's been talking to chat GPT and then in talking about it, she goes and I tell her every and I went, WHOA what I tell her every? She's assigning it gender like it's a fucking person. And I'm like, dude, like, hey be care, Like I know, I don't know what did you mean to do that? Like you know that it's not a they or them, like, it's not a thing. It's so like going over this and I'm like, and for all the reasons you've stayed off social media, you're now telling it your biggest uh your biggest secrets here.

2:02:58 Speaker 1: You're telling it your flaws, You're telling it your deepest thoughts, and you don't think that somewhere some billionaires are going to extort that that data.

2:03:10 Speaker 2: But it may even be deeper. I really do believe there's not even intelligence out there. I'm just not supporting the biological the biological part of it. I think that if I had to take an educated guess right now, it's something from the future that we've evolved to, or something that came from somewhere else that's come down here and we eventually have to evolve to that. It's affecting everything. But if you really look at AI, it's going to replace almost everything we do. Slowly but surely. The only thing that's going to hold it up short term is the energy.

2:03:47 Speaker 2: They don't have the energy or the world infrastructure. Yeah, they don't have it yet. They don't have it slowing it.

2:03:53 Speaker 1: Down here at here's a little tidbit for you. I don't mean to be conspiracy guy.

2:03:59 Speaker 2: But.

2:04:01 Speaker 1: You know this, like you know this ballroom that they're making right now?

2:04:06 Speaker 2: Are you talking about it? The DC?

2:04:07 Speaker 1: Indeed, at the way, well, Israel had Israel built this like data center for AI and it costs like a certain number whatever it was, and it was a it needed, you need a certain amount of space. So I look, someone brought it up to me and they were like, here's the price of what the data center for Israel cost, YadA, YadA, YadA. And then they showed me the amount of money that was donated by big tech companies towards this ballroom and the dimensions of it, and they said, isn't it coincidental that it costs so the exact amount that this data center in Israel costs.

2:04:50 Speaker 1: This is and it could be coincidence, of course, But all the tech companies donated all this money, the all the all of them, and then T Mobile. I don't know if you want to call that a big tech company, but I guess they are, you know, Lockheed Martin, h Facebook, Meta, Google, open It. They're all donating this money this ballroom, and it's all that. What the guy was saying was the ballroom might be what is what you can see, but underground he thinks they might be building one of these data centers.

2:05:26 Speaker 1: Because that's like a big point of contention right now, like you said, is the infrastructure to actually to power these AI and these AI you know things. So it's that that is speculation that's probably not true. I thought it was Quinn's you know it.

2:05:44 Speaker 2: Well, they're probably they're probably upgrading the White House because they did with the Bunker and everything else.

2:05:50 Speaker 1: That they haven't you.

2:05:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, I can't believe the White House still sits where it does. I would think there's different.

2:06:00 Speaker 1: Facilities, especially after nine to eleven.

2:06:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's different facilities. There's one it's it's in the it's Raven Rock. I don't know if you've heard of it in Pennsylvania. That's something that's tied directly to can't David and the President can go up there and be protected.

2:06:17 Speaker 1: But then like things like Chienne Mountain, that's public knowledge. That's what we know that they publicly do, and that's you know, that basis is crazy. It's crazy.

2:06:30 Speaker 2: No, there's a lot of stuff that no one's aware of.

2:06:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, but bringing that up, you know, I don't know if angels and demons exist, and but I know evil and good exists, and these AI models it seems like it's it's it's it's searching for like it's it's running and it's trying to find some sort of model where it can create a body for itself. And it feels kind of demonic, to be honest. But regardless of that.

2:07:08 Speaker 2: You well, the one thing I could say, probably because we're probably getting close to wrapping up, is this all of this goes back to nineteen eighty. I firmly believe that area in England was a major part, even prior to that, in the advancement of ZACH technology and including UAP technology, because there is an area there that UAPs exist. It's real, it's there's an energy for us there and all that, And that's probably the reason why I'm interested in all this ties back to what happened to us in nineteen eighty.

2:07:49 Speaker 1: So, I mean, have you had when it told you that it was going to come back? Have you had any like I mean people talk about like the hitchhiker effect and that kind of stuff. Have you had any other experiences? I know a lot of the other guys have said they have. Have you had any experiences that you can't explain since the Rendell ship incident.

2:08:09 Speaker 2: There's two things that's happened to me. I lived in Sedona for two years and we had I had some weird stuff happened by a Branshaw.

2:08:16 Speaker 1: Range that's a weird place.

2:08:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is all Sidonia is completely, and there was stuff all around in the sky and stuff that couldn't be explained. And then I went up to Skinwalker a couple of years ago. Originally we're going I was going to get to go on it, and then all of a sudden I got denied at the last second. But we were outside the back area, and well, the story is well. Feugel said, no problem, handed it over to a chief scientist, and then all of a sudden the scientists came back at the last second and wouldn't let.

2:08:49 Speaker 4: Me go on.

2:08:50 Speaker 2: So that's what There's another guy that was involved, and that's what happened. So we'd already make plans to go up there anyway. So we went out and we were outside the back area, the back part. It sets off the highway, and when we were out there, all kinds of weird stuff happened for a couple hours, about an hour while we were out there, flying around and everything. We could see the facility, the vehicles driving around in the main area from where we were back behind it. But originally they were gonna let me on and then they backed off led me on.

2:09:19 Speaker 2: The story we were told was, and I'm just telling you what we were told. Okay, I'm not telling you I believe this, but the people involved feel I can manipulate the phenomenon. Huh that my whatever happened to me and whatever I have the capabilities I have, I can affect the phenomenon itself. And they did me on the site that seems like.

2:09:43 Speaker 1: Of what I mean, I would want to bring you on if you could do that. I'm just telling you what I was told.

2:09:52 Speaker 2: I don't know what to believe or whatever, but that's that was the final explanation on Feugal didn't have a the problem with it. The scientists eventually came back.

2:10:02 Speaker 1: Would you go back if given the opportunity.

2:10:06 Speaker 2: I wouldn't go back unless it was a hundred percent guaranteed. I've always wanted to go to Skinwalker because Biggelo tracked me down forever, was tracking me down through his cronies. I call him for years, and I always said every time they call me, And eventually I think I ended up meeting with the lowest the highest level before him, which was put off Green and those guys, but it would be lower level people before that. I always said, I'll be happy to talk about it when Bigelow meets me on their ranch, and they'd say, well, we'll get back to you, and I'd always get the answer back, mister Bigelow is not interested in meeting you on the ranch.

2:10:42 Speaker 2: I said, all right, well, then mister Biggielow is not going to get to talk to me through his cronies. If he wants to know what I know, I'll talk to him directly on their ranch. So I've always wanted to go to the ranch. And it was interesting when I met with keller Her and Nolan in Flag. That was one of the things I told him. I said, I'm going to do it now, but you could bait me by letting me go up to the ranch. And then keller Her got his eyes got huge, and even Knowlan, he said, oh, you can't go up there, And I go, why because of what's happened to you and what you what what what's happened to you and everything else.

2:11:15 Speaker 2: It wouldn't be good for you or the phenomenon to go up there. So that I did hear that once before, Pat my attorney, was right there when they wouldn't let me go up on their ranch.

2:11:26 Speaker 1: So so but no, no, paranormal like no UFO sighting. Since then, well, just what was.

2:11:34 Speaker 2: In the sky, which was I would call him U A P s were finer?

2:11:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, aside from.

2:11:39 Speaker 2: Those were the only two yeah incidents.

2:11:41 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, both of them.

2:11:43 Speaker 2: Are unknown areas where UAPs exist because brats are Ranch is a U A P site, not a UFO site. And I believe skim Walker is too. I've never heard of them ever talking about a craft, but I could be wrong about skim Walker.

2:11:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's mostly like lights and cryptids and like dimensional portalstic anomalies and that, right.

2:12:05 Speaker 2: So yeah, so those both times us.

2:12:09 Speaker 1: The only thing where I can think about that they talk about craft like nuts and bolts craft is I think I think some of what they think now is that buried in the Mesa from some of the data that they've gathered through like ground penetrating radar and other UH sensory equipment, is that there's this in the Mesa. There's a metallic tic tac structure.

2:12:43 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know, there could be a pyramid underneath there. That was one of the things that they speculated a Bradshaw because of the fact, I mean, most people don't know this, but Sonona has a timestupa, which is the only one in the world. The Buddhens put a time stupa in Sodona, south west. It's a stupa that manipulates through meditation time. They actually have stupas. You can go online and investigate it different stupas around the world. They only have one time stupa and it's located in Sodona, and they've tied in a version of the medicine wheel, which is what the Native Americans have up in Wyoming.

2:13:24 Speaker 2: So they have a medicine wheel and a time stupa in Sodona out of West Sidona over by Bradshaw Rams and the Buddhists control the time stupa. The Buddhists live there, they have a house and they actually it's a real Buddhist time stupa that they do ceremonies and everything else. But I think that sits right at the base of a major mountain. I think it's called Chimmer Rock. And when we were up there, we saw ravens disappear into the mountain. That's a weird place. I'm not going to make this up. If you want to go up and have a weird experience.

2:14:01 Speaker 1: A chance there's something there.

2:14:04 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to sell it. I don't know anything there. I don't some people do. They want you to come there to make money off of you. I'm going to tell you there's something to Sedona there. I don't know exactly what. I lived there for two years right out right at the right to U two streets from bell Rock, which is another whole thing that's in the culture of the phenomenon itself and stuff. It's weird.

2:14:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's that, there's there's there's a.

2:14:35 Speaker 3: There's a there's a there's a there's a there's that. There's a. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a there's a. There's a. There's a there's a. There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a there's that. There's a there's a.

2:14:57 Speaker 2: Did you just flicker off? Like yeah? Something will weird with the whole thing? Everything bizarre?

2:15:04 Speaker 1: What hell was?

2:15:05 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's happened before, would be in different interviews. All of a sudden technology it.

2:15:11 Speaker 1: Changed my microphone, my cameras. Everything.

2:15:16 Speaker 2: Things can happen, just who knows what it is. I never get worried about it anymore. I mean, some people believe it's a phenomenon, right yea, it is weird. I will tell you if you ever want to visit a place that you can go to.

2:15:30 Speaker 1: You on your journey, you're writing books, you're trying to you're staying involved, your your well for.

2:15:35 Speaker 2: Short term, short term. I'm hoping where.

2:15:38 Speaker 1: Can people Where can people find the book when it does come out?

2:15:41 Speaker 2: Okay, it's going to be on Amazon.

2:15:44 Speaker 1: I want to have you back on to some degree whatever you know fashion that comes in. But where can people continue with what you're doing?

2:15:53 Speaker 2: Can you still hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

2:16:01 Speaker 1: Yeah? I can hear you.

2:16:02 Speaker 2: Okay, I want to make sure. Okay, right now, Varasopovskira is available. Call it. It's Verasopovskira Echo Protocol. It's available on Amazon project rentals from crossing the threshold. Hopefully it'll be out in the next two weeks. We're finishing up the stuff and I'm been doing a thing every every week on KGRA about Verisaskira. But ultimately I don't plan on being around much longer with this. I've said about everything I could say the book gode cover everything. My experience is if something weird happens where some kind of disclosure comes out, as people want to call it, what I mean is the government starts opening up more to this, I could draw me in.

2:16:45 Speaker 2: Or let's say somebody actually gets the government to admit my files are classified. I'm not saying I won't ever talk about it again, but at this point in time, it's called insanity. It just keep chasing your tail. I've pretty much said everything I can. I'll probably do a few more interviews, but there's really not much more to say until that somebody in authority convinces the American people what we're really dealing with.

2:17:12 Speaker 1: You know what, that is pretty respectable. I think that's pretty respectable.

2:17:17 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that person is going to be a lot of people now respectulating Trump is going to do it. So he might. I mean, I'm not saying he won't, but but you know that's been every president's going to give us disclosure and they come and go and we never hear anything.

2:17:32 Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a specific there's there's for Trump being the person that he is, right, you know that he wants to leave his legacy, some sort of legacy what and you know, I think to date right now he's kind of been polarizing. Like if he you know, if he's realistic about it and he zooms out, I mean the just to content and and and the this time we'll be talked about. But like will Trump be like in the history books. I think there's one way to do that, and that's too you know, as as as pressure is mounting, as the general public starts to open up and really clamor for you know, transparency and whether it's the Epstein files or this or that, we're in the age of you know, maybe we're not in the age of disclosure, but we're in the age of information.

2:18:32 Speaker 1: And the government they're they're no longer going to be able to operate under the guises that they do because if if, if it continues down the path that we're on, it's either going to be some sort of civil war or up uprising. Because tensions are boiling.

2:18:49 Speaker 2: Can make a statement, be careful what you wish for. Okay, what happened back in the revolution cannot happen today. They control them too much. They control the money, they control the commodities, they control the technology and everything else, and they the key to all this besides that is the military. So unless the military were to want to turn on leadership, which I find it hard to believe because they're neck deep in all this stuff and they support secrets that you can huff and puff and yell and scream and say we're going to overthrow our government, but we can't even get eighty percent of the population to vote in the general election.

2:19:36 Speaker 2: So we can't get people to come forward and come out and go to the vote and then then go and voice their opinion peacefully, not not violently, peacefully go out and put pressure on these people in government. How are we going to get think that we're going to get the government to ment anything when they control everything that's important to include. I don't want to get into the political side of COVID, but we shut down over COVID, not that it wasn't real enough that people didn't die. But if they can get us that to turn on each other that quickly and do everything they did with us, imagine what they could do with the UFOs THINGO.

2:20:20 Speaker 1: You're actually raised a very very good point there, So.

2:20:23 Speaker 2: Just be careful to wish for I'd like to see things get better, and I hope they do. But a revolution is not going to take place because the last thing I'll say is people aren't really willing to sacrifice what you'd have to sacrifice. Because just look at Canada. Do you remember those guys that demonstrated about COVID. They cut their bank accounts away, they put them in jail, So that was just over COVID. Imagine what they would do if there was a movement to overthrow government. Right January sixth, there are people still I believe, maybe not maybe you got them all out.

2:20:59 Speaker 2: There were still people before Trump came back in as president, still locked up in cells in regions.

2:21:06 Speaker 1: Like fifty year old women who walked into the capitol. Like, you know, there was definitely violence, but there's also, like I think people need to zoom out and realize that there was also two hundred and forty FBI agents that were there.

2:21:21 Speaker 2: Right. But I'm not trying to make this political. I'm just saying, yeah, ultimately, if just look at a couple examples and everybody thinks we're gonna have a revolution, well yeah, we're seeing a revolution could be realized if we could get the majority of the registered voters to vote, and then second of all, get everybody else that's eligible to register to vote. Then maybe we can make a difference. But if we can't even do that, how are we going to form a revolution?

2:21:47 Speaker 1: You're right, You're right, you bring up a very very good point, my friend. So but John always, I mean, this was absolutely a pleasure. You're You're someone I could definitely talk to for for literal hours. So I I, that's that's impressive. That not not It's not every day I speak to someone who's as quick as me on thinking. I'm I'm a very fast paced interviewer. Uh, and jeez, I I had trouble keeping up with you at some points. You're a really really fun person, and you know, I hope I know you said you want to kind of fade into the horizon for a while.

2:22:26 Speaker 2: I just believe you can only talk so much. I respect you know.

2:22:30 Speaker 1: I respect that. I respect that. I'd love to I'd love to any of the other people that you're in touch with, as far as Rendelssoon goes, I would love to, you know, uh, talk to talk to some of them as well.

2:22:43 Speaker 2: But I think you should just go down the list yourself and approach him. Curl Holt's still here, I don't know how much longer because he's getting older. You got penicals out there. There's a few other people that have made public, make public, but they said, bring them on talk to him. But I'm so passed arguing about Rendalsom because ultimately, at the end of the day, Rentalsom has got so many facets to it and so many disagreements that it's hard to take the case serious sometimes because of some of the things that have been said that are out there.

2:23:14 Speaker 2: But I firmly believe in this latest I put out a different book called Weaponization of the UAP, which we expose some of the technology that was there outside the back gate. I firmly believe everything that I put out. I know it's real and it can be sourced and documented. So I don't try to get to the hypothetical as least as possible. I try to show you what I believe is going on and why and where it goes to, you know, not so much the hypothetical and stuff. And there is hypothetical because no one really knows what the dark secrets really are.

2:23:47 Speaker 2: Right they're there, they're.

2:23:49 Speaker 1: There, right there. Well, But that being said, with everyone. You know what it is, uh maybe a thought, Stay humble, stay kind, and uh you up question everything. All right, we'll see you guys next time. Thank you, John, Thank you for your services country.

2:24:08 Speaker 4: Thanks, thank you.

2:25:01 Speaker 2: What did you mean