KARI LINDSAY- "Dark Alliance"- The Secret Space HOAX- Corey Goode-David Wilcock!

0:00 Speaker 1: Coming up on Total Disclosure podcast.

0:04 Speaker 2: Diapersuckers are the dark forces, so my clients are not the dark forces.

0:09 Speaker 3: No, but I would say to those of you that are supporting him and helping him to defend himself, what's he defending himself from. No one is suing Corey. He's the one suing everybody. Who is the dark force?

0:27 Speaker 4: Who is the cabal?

0:33 Speaker 5: They said things like I couldn't believe he was talking about twenty and back and bases on Mars and the Moon.

0:44 Speaker 6: I think if you look up sensational in the dictionary, you'll probably find David Wilcock's face in there. Cult like behaviors that are going on around that group. Corey literally called himself the Enoch of our modern times, and David claims to have all these insiders.

1:00 Speaker 3: Hundreds of people have been on Guya having different TV shows. Have any of them turned around and sued Gaya? Nobody but Corey Good.

1:09 Speaker 5: The company that created the sky Net. He said he started Cyberdyne years before the Terminator film came out.

1:18 Speaker 6: Let's go back to the beginning. I first met Corey and David. Well, let me back up a little bit from there.

1:32 Speaker 4: I don't make films. I make art. That's that's what I do. I don't that's my artistic process is I don't make corporate product. I'm not thinking about what's going to sell well, I think about what the messages, how I can visually and artistically represent that in a way that's classy and it hits on the right notes. So I watched it and I rewound it, I watched it again and was just mesmerized, like, there's no way, there's no way there's a website that actually has this kind of stuff. Because before this I'd been into like Stephen Greer, I'd put.

2:05 Speaker 1: But yeah, especially from Darcy who made films about like the real side of the secrets right then to come out and be like, but you know, there's this there's this other side as well, this really dark side of the community, and kind of shed a spotlight on it.

2:21 Speaker 4: But well, here's the thing in these dynamics. So so Corey Good, for example, he replaced God in that dynamic. He became he became the lead, the head father figure, the patriarchal figure at the top of the dynamic. And then the way that he was interacting with his followers, so inviting them to conferences, doing movies, having private group chats with them, and making them feel like they're part of the team. That's what was attractive even to me. That's why I added these people on Facebook and tried to get into these networks because it looked like it looked like where the culture was going.

2:59 Speaker 4: What all the.

3:04 Speaker 5: Diap I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this work.

3:13 Speaker 7: And yet I ask you, was not an alien force already among us.

3:17 Speaker 1: We must guard.

3:18 Speaker 7: Again the acquisition of unwanted influence, whether sought or unsolved by the military industrial compact. The potential or the disastrous rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

3:49 Speaker 4: Now. I am become death drier world.

3:52 Speaker 5: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

3:59 Speaker 4: Mm hmite thee on the nam.

4:07 Speaker 7: Hlobys twere or for the testing or about to give me the truth, the whole.

4:11 Speaker 1: Truth and nothing the truth?

4:13 Speaker 5: So help me God, do you believe that our government is in possession?

4:15 Speaker 1: Are the against absolutely.

4:22 Speaker 5: All right?

4:23 Speaker 1: Everybody, welcome back to Total disclosure, UFOs cover ups and conspiracy. My name's Toy and I am your beloved host. Don't mind me. I'm getting over a brief brief sickness. I always not a bit horsey, but it's extra today and I know that's uh sounds crazy, but today I want to start off by dedicating today's show to the twenty one year old man that you know is practically family. We grew up in the same neighborhood and he lost his life at twenty one years old in a orcycle accident over this past week.

5:03 Speaker 6: Uh.

5:03 Speaker 1: So you know, I watched him from a rambunctious toddler grow into a very very well respected man.

5:10 Speaker 6: Uh.

5:11 Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's tragic when we lose someone so young, especially someone so vibrant and useful as Jake Trainey. So you know, I just I dedicated this episode to Jake into the neighborhood Lakeside Forever. All right, guys, Today we're joined by Cary Lindsay, a journalist and filmmaker.

5:34 Speaker 2: Who specializes in exploring the myths and narratives of new age culture. Previously a host of a popular YouTube series, Cary has transitioned into documentary filmmaking, bringing a critical lens to a fascinating and complex set of topics today. Let's welcome miss there Carrie.

5:58 Speaker 4: How we doing, brother, Hi, thank you for having me. Hello.

6:03 Speaker 1: Absolutely.

6:03 Speaker 4: Man.

6:05 Speaker 1: You know, I after I watched Dark Alliance, I you know, I think I think it was in It was even before I got to the second episode, I was I had a notebook and I virtually filled it and I reached out to Darcy and I'm like, Darcy, listen, I want to bring you back back back on the show. And he was like, uh, you know, I'm just gonna I'm kind of like staying back from interviews right now. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. He's like, I'm getting a lot of heat from the community for this documentary.

6:39 Speaker 1: He's like, I just kind of want to chill and uh, let let you know things because he went on a lot of big shows and kind of you know, went full guns of blazing. But you know, then by happenstance, it didn't even it was like a synchronicity. Not even a week later, you contact me while I'm gone tacting you guys, and You're like, hey, I'd love to come on and like talk about the documentary. So man, I'm super excited. This is a topic I've I wanted to dive into because I think there is a lot of I want to believe in the community of UFO is the paranormal, and like we need a balance, and I think.

7:23 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely that was a great interest, Thank you. So I agree. I think that there should be checks and balances, and to be able to critically examine these topics kind of free of the harassment and abuse that quite often goes along with it in this topic is important and I can understand why why Darcy stepped back at the time, he was getting quite a lot of quite a lot of heat.

7:53 Speaker 1: And as soon as you go against the narrative, especially from someone who is making films about the Secret Space Program, are we allowed to say that without getting like.

8:06 Speaker 4: Well, we made the walk around the New Age Secret Space Program the NASSP. It's our own nomenclature that we used for the documentary, so feel free to use that. I want to sere s SP NASSP, New Age Secret Space Program.

8:21 Speaker 1: All right, So if you guys hear that, then you know what it means now. But yeah, especially from Darcy who made films about like the real side of the secrets, right then, to come out and be like, bah, you know there's this there's this other side as well, this really dark side of the community, and kind of shed a spotlight on it where no one had before. So I want to start by asking you what inspired you to kind of co create Dark Alliance and what specific aspects of the UFO community's mentality did you want to explore through this story.

8:59 Speaker 4: So the genesis of the co creation she stems back all the way to kind of summer of twenty twenty. It was kind of mid COVID, So for the audience listening and watching, my history with the Corey Good story actually stems back to twenty sixteen. So I had found I found Corey Good at the early days on Geya, and I became like an avid follower, and i'd ended up adding them all on Facebook and kind of joining all of their like Private Meat Earth, Cosmic Neighbors groups and Full Disclosure Now and following along in kind of this meta narrative where there's the Guya show and then there's the social aspect kind of below it that was going on.

9:42 Speaker 4: So I was in that for a number of years, and so I think it was twenty nineteen Corey Good did an episode of Edge of Wonder called Civil War and Ethology, where like thirty six minutes in they pop up a graphic of a dark journalist post and then refer to all of his comments as useful idiots, except I was the top comment. So I was like, what's going on right now? What I thought? These guys were my friends? Yeah, So I look at the amount of views it had, and it had had like one hundred and eighty six thousand views in two days.

10:23 Speaker 4: And because I had just been in Vancouver hanging out with hanging out with Graham Hancock, So I was like, what is going on right now? This is this is insane. So I reached out to Edge of Wonder and I'm like, hey, guys, why did you do that? And it took like three weeks or something for Ben Chastine to get back to me and be like, oh, sorry, man, the editor should have taken that out. I'm like, are you gonna take it out? It took it took like two years, but I finally got them to blow it because I was like, don't refer to me in that way, like I didn't, like I hadn't even done anything to warrant that the post was about Edge of wonder and I just made a joke, like not affirming or disaffirming anything that d journalist had said.

11:09 Speaker 4: I just made a joke so.

11:10 Speaker 1: So in that in that in that moment, I mean, the rug kind of like gets old.

11:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was my rug pool moment. And after that, I I kind of I contacted Jay Widener. Yep, I think it was about it was about a month after that actually, like so that happened. I apologized to them and was just like, hey, guys, I was trying to internally kind of fix it to the point where Jay Wider released this reality check YouTube series with Yvonne Palomo talking about his experiences and her experiences working with the early years of the Corey Good Thing. And I saw episode three where Yvonne cried about the abuse that Corey and his group had done to her and that that was the real like the final straw where I went, I need to do something like this woman is being abused by people that I could easily contact, Like this is this is weird.

12:08 Speaker 4: So I contacted Jay and said, hey, I'm inside all of these groups, I'm friends with all these people. I can I can kind of feed you information from these groups on how they're responding to you if they're planning to kind of gang up on you. Because at the time that all of these chat messages had leaked from the internal groups where they were going after Richard Dolan and Jerkoozabi from guy dot com and stuff, so it was very there was a lot of stuff floating around and being thrown around. So I offered to Jay, Hey, I can provide screenshots when I if and when I see them kind of thing.

12:47 Speaker 4: So I started doing that, and then I noticed that his thumbnails sucked, so I asked him, Hey, do you want me to do your thumbnails too? So I ended up doing the first like eighteen episodes of Reality Checks thumbnails uh one of them, I think episode five ended up getting cited in Corey Good's Rico lawsuit, which was like really really weird. And at this point I still hadn't come up with the idea for the documentary that came about two months after that citation in the lawsuit. So I I had a late night one night and I watched Mark and j D plus the Plas Brothers.

13:23 Speaker 4: They did the documentary called A Wild, Wild Country about what's his name? Oh show Oho, So I just had clicked in my head, like, wait a minute, there's lawsuits, this is going to be going on for a little while, and there's all of this history that I know, and there's got to be way more there than I even know about. So it just turned into this, oh maybe maybe that could be a thing. And at the time I came like that, the first thing I came up with was the title, which is Dark Alliance the Inside Story of the Cosmic Car about five o'clock in the morning, just like, there you go, that's what it's and that's that's the title.

14:02 Speaker 4: As it stayed for a long time after that.

14:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's stay there for a minute, because it's funny, it's it's it's great. I mean, this is perfect. So the title Dark Alliance is it's I mean, let's not lie. It's evocative, right, can you explain what it signifies in the context of the UFO community, like in the Secrets the SSP narrative.

14:26 Speaker 4: Okay, So for those playing along at home, the Dark Alliance is a terminology created by David and Corey Good David Wilcock and Corey Good to denote their kind of critics and detractors as being a dark Alliance controlled by like the nefarious forces within the the NASSP world to go against the good forces such as the Galactic Federation or the the Anshah or people like that. So it was a a fake group created out of the critics.

15:02 Speaker 2: It was.

15:02 Speaker 4: It was kind of a catchual term for anybody that was critical. Oh you're remember the Dark Alliance. You're working with the c i A. You're being paid by the d i A to ruined Corey and his message. So all of his critics, we took that on the on the chin and they just went, okay, fine, we're the Dark Alliance. So for a long time, my idea of what it was going to be was going to be about the more of the community aspect in how to how we were all working together to critically think about this narrative, and we we were the Dark Alliance.

15:41 Speaker 4: Over time, a few a few members, a few of the critics died. Yeah. Yeah, they just just died as a part of life. It wasn't like anything tragic, right, it was. It was tragic, but it wasn't sudden or was it was. It was just part of life and a lot of us kind of drifted apart. So this idea is kind of floating there in my head. So about a year later, after it kind of fell apart, I started making some some rough cuts, which is really just a chronology where I just went I went online and I found I had had some help from a from a colleague.

16:22 Speaker 4: But I ended up putting together all the public media that's out there on Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, all the videos in chronological order to actually tell this story from the genesis of Corey Good all the way through to the conferences to the lawsuits. So I did right right while while explaining context as well, and oh wow, yeah it was. It was really fun. But like obviously, legally I could never release that. I could never put that out for for money or anything. So I had I had dropped a few clips of this online.

16:59 Speaker 4: I had a train that was played during I think it's during the Golden Probes Awards show or the Golden Probe's pre award show on truth Seekers, and Darcy had seen that trailer and reached out to Stephen, like, Hey, who's this person. They're working on something exactly like what I'm working on. So that's how I ended up meeting Darcy. And yeah, so we ended up having this like eight hour mega conversation throughout the night where we just kind of mind melded on it and realized that, like, it makes so much more sense to work together because he's got like the filmmaking acumen and I've got the research and the story.

17:37 Speaker 4: So it just kind of it was just a natural match. And from there it was it was just off to the races. Like within four months of starting to work together, we were in America, driving across America interviewing people.

17:50 Speaker 1: There's one day about Darcy that man never stops.

17:55 Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever seen. In fact, no, I I was looking at Folk when you asked me for potograph for the Thumb. Now last night I found a photo of Darcy standing still at a taco bell counter and I actually I took note of it as being one of the few times above a cinnem standstill, and I was like, I heard it, crack, he's sitting still. Yeah, he has one of the best work ethic because I honestly like that man never stops. So if anyone listening and watching, go watch his stuff. He deserves it.

18:24 Speaker 1: He works so hard, he definitely deserves it. And you know, he's someone I look up to as a filmmaker myself and you know, working on my own first documentary. Now you know, it's it's I even asked him for uh for for help and and he's you know, obviously super busy, but he he's kind of referred me to like people like yourself and people like.

18:49 Speaker 4: Uh.

18:49 Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to start naming every single name, but there are a few people I am, you know, ready to reach out to, and you know, I really like bring this together. So it's it's ironic that you say that because he's not. He's he's just a very good person. He and he's and he's not you can't buy him off like he's right, he's very His integrity is there. So I really do love that. But all right, back to back to the Dark Alliance stuff and the content, how would you describe the central tent, like the tension within the UFO community between the desire and the truth and the inconsistencies or the willingness to overlook inconsistencies to preserve a compelling narrative.

19:42 Speaker 4: That's a that's an excellent question. You're hitting on the big one there, which is the why why do people believe this stuff? And as someone who spent three and a half years deeply embroiled believing this stuff following along with it. I can tell you it comes about from from mental vulnerable. So for example, when I first found Corey on Guya, I had just been in hospital. I was bedbound. I couldn't get up and walk around. I was I just had a p S three on an old TV and I could. I was like in bed with the controller, not really able to move right.

20:15 Speaker 4: I was just like, oh, do it like that button? And then I ended up. I'd heard about Guya dot com a few months before. Funnily enough, it was. It was really funny. Actually I was on acid when I first saw a trailer for Guys. This was months before I even actually went back and watched any but I I just remember hearing like Corey Good and David Willcarck. It was it was an ad for Cosmic Disclosure, and they're talking about the tall Whites, the Nordic tall white beings. And I remember I was cooking like a chili, like a chili con carne, and I just remember the gravityering across the kitchen and being like, what is this?

20:56 Speaker 4: What is this amazing thing that I'm hearing with my ears right, and so I watched it and I rewound it and watched it again and was just mesmerized, like, there's no way, there's no way there's a website that actually has this kind of stuff. Because before this, I'd been into like Stephen Greer, I'd put money towards the serious documentary and not got anything out of it, which I was already kind of. I was kind of pissed and jaded about the gristuff. Put money towards the serious documentary and not got anything out of it, which I was already kind of.

21:25 Speaker 4: I was kind of pissed and jaded about the Grier stuff. So when I saw, oh my god, there's a whole website with good content. I say that with quotation marks good content, I was like, oh my god. And then I stopped being on acid and I completely forgot about it for about two months, and it wasn't until I was really ill that it popped back in my head and like, oh wow, I can I can check this out now. I've got no excuse not to. I'm just laying here. So I ended up checking out and the foot I ended up watching Wisdom Teachings with David Wilcock.

22:01 Speaker 4: First, because I'm like a stickler for chronology, so I saw that those episodes came before cosmic disclosure. So I was like, I know, I have to start at the beginning, right, So I started watching it. In the first few episodes are about like source field and the source field investigations, and at the time, I was desperate to get better, so I started. I was ready into meditation and stuff in crystals, and I was having a new age hippie but without the secret space aspect, right, and from learning from wisdom teachings about the source field and all that stuff, I started meditating on the source field and somehow got better to the point where doctors were like, how have you healed this quickly?

22:42 Speaker 4: So that for me that was, oh my god, it works. This stuff's legit. I'm in. I'm totally in. When it could have been any number of factors that healed me. It could have just been it could have been an environment, it could have just been my body going no, I'm going to heal you quicker so you don't have to watch this garbage anymore. It could have been anything, right, But in that.

23:02 Speaker 1: I mean I also would say, let's not count out the fact that your mentality was in a place like that, you know, the placebo effect.

23:12 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, absolutely it could have been. It could have been I made myself better by believing I could make myself better.

23:19 Speaker 1: Which is which is unique. Except that would be a huge mystery and a huge fu I mean that that would blow people's minds if you can, you know, if we could literally think ourselves well, right, the implications were to be crazy.

23:38 Speaker 4: I mean, the pharmaceutical industry would go and like go down overnight. So you start a trip to for myself that but you get my point, right.

23:47 Speaker 1: But you start asking these questions like, right am I being? Is something being suppressed in me by all the distraction and all the wonder in the world, and you know, hate ability, And you start asking yourselselves these questions, and then something like that happens right where you're right, something you can explain happens, and it almost affirms what you what you're belief what this whole other side of it.

24:17 Speaker 4: Right, Well, thinking about it now, actually a lot of the validation that came from the like the first couple of years of watching it was it seemed to validate like psychedelic experiences that I had had where I'm I've been searching for not exactly a meaning, but some kind of coder to be able to contextualize it, maybe not explain it, but at least put it in some kind of framework where I can understand it enough to process it because some of the some of the experiences I've had that are pretty crazy, and I don't really talk about them because I feel like I would sound absolutely insane if I was to explain some of the out of body experiences I've had on like mushrooms or or like I had to the d MT trip once.

25:01 Speaker 1: I was literally so have you been to the land?

25:08 Speaker 4: Yes?

25:09 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it's a it's a weird place.

25:11 Speaker 4: Right, It's it's certainly something. I had an interesting conversation with Andrew Gallimore about it a couple of years ago. It's an interesting place we can.

25:20 Speaker 1: Talk about off that off air. I'd loved it because I can you know, I'd love to have as many conversations and work with you as much as as possible, because it's it's rare you find someone who's like yourself, you know, just in the conversations we've had. Yeah, so continue, So you're you're having these experiences.

25:41 Speaker 4: So I've had. I've had these experiences and they to be able to It was when I started watching Cosmic Disclosure and Corey started talking about in conjunction with all the stuff with the source field and the David Wilcock material that I've been learning about, the alien contact and the entity com intact and the out of seemingly out of body, out of world experiences were very much like a lot of experiences that I had had. So I was like, oh, kindred spirit. So he became exalted in my perception because, oh, here's a guy who's having the same kind of thing happened, and he's talking about it on TV and it's all flashy and well edited and must be legit.

26:27 Speaker 4: So that was kind of my mindset for a few years, and I ended up moving out to Canada. I actually met a fellow believer and I moved out to Canada to live with her and we got married and had a child. Oh wow, Yeah, so it was That's why I was in Vancouver hanging out with Graham Hancock because he was a his his wife was friends with my wife.

26:53 Speaker 1: Oh I mean, I didn't have to hang out with you, Marouffan.

26:57 Speaker 4: It was it was a good time, but it was so it there was a lot there, There was a lot of contextualization and meeting someone else who was also like, oh my god, this guy is the guy. That was also a lot of validation. And it's also a relationship dynamic, right yeah, so's it's no wonder that that relationship diminished somewhat after we fell out of the Corey Good stuff, because it was a connective tissue between the two of us, Right, So, like we're fine now, like we're we're all older and wiser, we have a we have a kid that we love more than anything.

27:35 Speaker 4: So everything's fine now, But at the time it was it played a large part in the dynamic. And this isn't exclusive, by the way, I never talk about this, so yeah, so it was just so I have a I have a daughter that technically doesn't it only exists because of Corey Good. So put that in your pipe, Corey smoking Holy ship.

28:02 Speaker 1: Man. I'm just I was not expecting wow. And and it's and that's so it's not it's this is personal for you.

28:13 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, this isn't like, this isn't like any other topic that I've I've done work on, like I do work in the extreme weather industry, which is is a personal thing. It's something I love, but it's not something where there's there's trauma attached to it, right, right, So.

28:32 Speaker 1: And you think it the other way around, but it's not right chasing tornadoes, you know, you can't expect there to be something there, but no, it's not. It's usually it's it's the other way.

28:47 Speaker 4: Well it's it's so it's different kind of trauma, I think. So it's when you have extreme weather incidents and extreme weather related trauma, it's kind of an act of God kind of thing. Whereas this this stuff it gets real pernicious and really kind of vindictive when, for example, like the group that was going after like c. W. Chanter or Joe from the Carolinas or Richard Dolan that group. What that's where the real danger is in these kind of parasocial groups where people feel emboldened to go and attack and harass people because they have a differing point of view on a very niche topic in the first place.

29:33 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, And I.

29:36 Speaker 1: Talked about this if so, there's like a nine minute little clip or podcast I just put out where it was just me and again the synchronicities for me on this one are out of I mean, they're through the goddamn roof. Not only what I told you earlier, right, I'm going I'm seeking you guys out right, have you on you come to me in some twist of fate. And then meanwhile I just wrote like a nine page script and it ends. Part of the ending is if you're defending your favorite UFO guru and they have a page like something along those lines, like if you're defending a UFO guru like it's your fantasy football team, there's an issue.

30:31 Speaker 1: Yep, there's an issue. And that's how people defend Alessando. That's how people defend doctor Greer because they attack and they're coordinated about it. It's insanity.

30:46 Speaker 4: I've noticed a lot of this around the Ashton Forbes. It's a lot of brigading, and there's a lot of yeah's brigading people going, groups of people going off the individuals for having a different point of view and accusing them of all kinds of things, which gets to the it gets scary. Like there was a there was a point last year I quit Twitter for about six months because people started attacking me and my daughter where I'm like, no, like we're talking about lights in the sky, guys, We're not talking about like personal issues.

31:20 Speaker 1: The thing is is some people and I know we have like questions and we have things to hit on here. But you raise a very interesting quality about the UFO community because I'm not so sure it's not personal because if i mean, look at your story, if that's your story, like it kind of gets personal. And I can see where people and that's the thing is they engulf themselves in this and the UFO community, right, It's it becomes like I look on Twitter and I'm like, people have so much time to be on x all day posting, to be on spaces all day all day.

32:09 Speaker 1: They don't have jobs. It's it's seemingly they don't have jobs. They don't have bills because they would need a job, right, clearly they don't. And then it's and then they're weaponized. They're weaponized by their favorite UFO guru. Maybe not maybe not directly out in the open, but they think they have like some some large maybe it's them seeking like the approval of like some sort of authority figure.

32:42 Speaker 4: Uh. Right, it's a social dynamic. So you've got like you've got a leader, for lack of a better term, and then you've got the kind of immediate circle, which the the is the connection between the leader and the immediate circle around him. That becomes attractive for people. Right, So when when they see the reciprocity in the relationship, where oh my god, this guy's amazing and he treats his followers like really nicely and graces them with his presence, Like that's attractive to people who are looking for meaning that you brought up a really good point.

33:18 Speaker 4: It just reminded me of a quote that a good friend of mine said a couple of years ago. Now is Matthew Riott. You may have heard of him out in the UFO world. He said to me that people don't get into UFOs because they're happy. And I think that is really the bottom line when it comes to euthologies. Ninety nine point nine percent of people in this topic are here to find answers to a problem in their own lives, and they're not happy. It's not happy search. People are looking for something and when they don't find it, they get angry, or if they think they found it, they'll defend it till the death because they found that answer.

33:59 Speaker 1: And honest, you know, and I'm going to say this, this is probably the first time I've ever said this in in this way, but everything you just said is right. I came back to the UFO world after my mother died and I was searching because I don't have religion, because I don't have because you know, even though I'm sober and I've been sober, and the program you know for sobriety really like tells you like, oh, you need to find like a higher power. It doesn't have to be God, but they sure as hell wanted to.

34:32 Speaker 4: Be, you know, right right, Well, here's the thing in these dynamics, so so Corey Good, for example, he replaced God in that dynamic. He became he became the lead, the head father figure, the patriarchal figure at the top of the dynamic. And then the way that he was interacting with his followers, so inviting them to conferences, doing movies, having private group chats with them, and making them feel like they're part of the team. That's what was attractive even to me. That's why I added these people on Facebook and tried to get into these networks because it looked like it looked like where the culture was going.

35:11 Speaker 4: They created enough of an attractive storefront that made me go, I want to be in that room.

35:16 Speaker 1: So and it's I always said that, you know, it's almost like there was a there was something there, right. I mean we look at like the twenty twelve stuff and the hype that was around it, right, that kind of culture. Then Internet and the connectivity of people is rising. Right, so that becomes the gas, right, and now all you need is a spark and boom. The spark happens on December sixteenth, twenty seventeen, New York Times front page, glowing ores in black money. Boom blows up, and it's and it takes off.

36:01 Speaker 1: And from there it's I mean, we're here today.

36:06 Speaker 4: And now I would argue that that from that release, they're actually there. Was That's what caused a large, large fracture within the community between the fact based side that had kind of just tolerated they had tolerated people like Corey Good. Actually, about six months before that article came out, Richard Dolan had confronted Corey, Michael Silah, and William Tompkins on the mouf On Symposium panel in Laughlin, Nevada, and basically said like what are we doing here? Why are we talking about reptilians and the Galactic Federation?

36:45 Speaker 4: That what I thought was a serious UFO conferences. It's fricking move on. This is supposed to be like the tippy top, like in the top three UFO conferences in the world, and they're sitting there talking about completely on proven things and complete, completely unprovable things.

37:04 Speaker 1: Which would have been okay if you had I mean, it's not okay. I mean, let's say it. It's not okay. Grifting and being a charlatan, especially because you you know that they put Dolan on that panel to legitimize it, yes.

37:22 Speaker 4: And I know that he only agreed to do it so that he could push back, right. He did an interview shortly after with Bill Ryan Well he essentially said as much. I'm I'm kind of paraphrasing. It's been a few years since I listened to it, but from what I remember, the general just was he he was offered it so like it was a two way things, so they wanted him to legitimize it, and he wanted to be there to be like no and pushed back, which is what which is what he did. In the most dolarite respectful way.

37:56 Speaker 4: It is such a nice guy to people. I wouldn't I wouldn't have been that nice about it.

38:02 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm gonna create a marker right here so if I can get it to play, if I can insert it, you know, it's probably gonna play right now. But yeah, the way Dolan does it is it's it's so Dolan. It's like it's I love it, I really do. He's such a good guy. And I you know, he's someone who I've I talked to, you know, on a because I'm close with Bassett and you know, Bob Sallas and you know, all these guys who are like real you know what I consider like the more data driven side community, and that's kind of where I am.

38:42 Speaker 1: I am nuts and bolts when you break it down. But I'm not afraid to have the abduction conversations, the space secret space stuff. Right. It's just and and actually I got invited onto a podcast. Not to deviate too much. I got invited onto a podcast, and I'm not I don't want to name any names because I don't want to. I'll tell you in the private, in private who it is, because I just don't want to stroke any fires. Of course, but when I realized I had said yes because uh circumstance, there was so much going on.

39:14 Speaker 1: I was asked to be on a show and I go, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure, I'll do it. And uh then I look into who it is and I realized, at the same time as I'm about to drop all this stuff, talk to you one of those people who's always perpetrating the stories of like Emery Smith. Oh you probably know who it is now, but I didn't realize it. And I'm like, hey, I don't believe in what you do. I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. I'm gonna I'm gonna retract my my yes because I can't be a part of something like that.

39:55 Speaker 1: I apologize. I was like, and you know this is this. I don't mean any disrespect. I just I think that you're like I think you're in a cult. I mean, play it, want to play it?

40:10 Speaker 4: You said it, not me. I said, I may agree, I may not agree. You can infu.

40:17 Speaker 1: And that's the thing is is we need we need I cannot stress this enough. We need balance UFOs Lights in the Sky Babe. You great job, great job, keep it to good work. Thank you, Jess. Excellent So What we need in this community is balance. We need to be checked. We need that because UFOs cannot be your whole life. I mean you need to be able to go out and disconnect from this topic and have a regular what we would call regular life or do regular things your friends, like go, touch, grasp, whatever it is.

41:02 Speaker 1: I don't care. You know, do iahuasca in South America? Honestly do that?

41:08 Speaker 4: Do that? Last one, get out of the virtualization bubble is essentially because that's what's happened then. It's happened with every every kind of topic. It's virtualization where we've moved from the ability to like so say in nineteen ninety you would hear for about UFO cases and UFO conferences through a magazine subscription, so like UFO News or UFO Review, and then that would create opportunities for actually interested people to travel to these conferences and kind of interface with other likewise interested people, and it creates this kind of empathetic exchange where you can trust people a little more because you've actually met them.

41:56 Speaker 4: I experienced this myself before I went to contact in the dozer it I was more leaning towards the say the Stephen Cambian attitude of they're all grifters, they're all awful people, they all know what they're doing right. And it wasn't until I went to Contact in the Desert and I just saw these people as people, not as names and stuff on the screen. I actually saw them. I spoke to many of them, and I realized that it's not some nefarious thing, it's not some huge conspiracy. They're just people that talk, and interest goes up and goes down based on audience whim at the end of the day.

42:35 Speaker 4: So if they have something interesting to say, then then they'll get a highest slot on the speaking engagement. But if they don't, then they get pushed down. And it's which does create its own issues with impetus to create interesting content, which we saw with Corey and David Good, Corey and David Good, David and Corey Good. I think as a play we play a clip in the In Dark Alliance of David on FAD's Black Outright saying to Jimmy, it's getting really hard to come up with new material every week for these shows.

43:07 Speaker 4: And to be honest, I don't know why he said that to the world when he's trying to say that this stuff is real. But that's David for you.

43:17 Speaker 1: So yeah, Jimmy is So I do want to talk about Jimmy a little bit, Okay, but not yet because I want to I want to keep this in a linear fashion.

43:31 Speaker 4: Okay, so linearly, I think we had got up to the start of production.

43:35 Speaker 1: Right, and so I want for the audiences who may not be super familiar, we've talked about these two people, David Wilcox and Corey Good. Can you just I mean, don't spoil the film, obviously, but can you do like a real, a brief like synopsis of the story. Who is Corey Good? Who David wilcoks so.

44:02 Speaker 4: David Wilcock is a New Age spiritualist, author and show host entertainer. He had been on Ancient Aliens on the History Channel. He had been on various coast to coast episodes, and there was a book written about him by Win Three in two thousand and four alleging that he is the reincarnation of Edgar Casey, which is is crazy. It's a crazy it's a crazy thing. But his main thing up until twenty twelve was the twenty twelve ascension shift, and when that didn't happen. Jay Widner reached out and offered him a show at Guia dot com.

44:38 Speaker 4: After a little while, he wanted more income, essentially, so he asked for a second show and started vetting insiders and I say this with quotes insiders to be his insider on this new show where they come on and they talk about, you know, whatever experiences they would have had and whatever narrative they wanted to push. And it came down to two people that came down to Shame the Ruiner and Corey Good. Corey Good starts implementing the Law of One into his testimony, which is he basically he had found out that David lived with Carla Ruckert, the lady who channeled the Law of One in the eighties.

45:18 Speaker 4: He lived with her in the late nineties. And you know, he's very adept at the material. So when he started integrating that into his UFO narrative, he was chosen and to put to keep this kind of concise because I could go on, I could tell the whole story like this. David got Corey to be to be the guest on his second show on Guia dot com. Now, this show caused the it got so popular and so viral that the stock price for Guia the company went up three hundred million dollars while that show was on air.

45:55 Speaker 1: People realized, so I think they're actually the percentage because we have to pay attention percentages on stock rather than the number. I think it increased like almost like three hundred and fifty percent or something like.

46:08 Speaker 4: That, something like that. It was it was running, it was about yeah, it was. Their market cap was about seventy five million before.

46:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and then it was up to three hundred million. So you got to think, right, So if people don't realize that stock's like it's the number doesn't really mean much. It's it's how much of a you know, what did you buy in at versus what is it?

46:34 Speaker 4: Where? Right?

46:35 Speaker 1: Right, that's where the money is, right, So I mean if you had if you had stock in Guaya before the episode, you are now pretty wealthy.

46:44 Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh for sure. Some people made a lot of money on early investment in gia ye just because of this explosive growth. But because of that explosive growth and to get back to the kind of concise thing of this, sorry, after a while of having these two shows, these super popular shows, they wanted more and GIA wasn't going to give them more. So they plotted, allegedly, I'm going to say allegedly, because this is still being arbitrated by the courts. Allegedly, they work together to bring down Geia's stock price and essentially wear them down from the inside.

47:23 Speaker 4: So when they leave and create their own version of GIA, a lot of the existing audience would leave and they would be left with less infrastructure, less stock price. And like I said, this is currently being being arbitrated in the court. So GIA is countersuing the ricosuit based on these claims. So, and for what it's worth, I've heard evidence of this collusion. We couldn't put it in the documentary obviously because it's it's more suit evidence. This isn't for public consumption yet. But I've heard it.

48:00 Speaker 4: I know that I have to say allegedly, but I've heard them say the words.

48:06 Speaker 1: So it's uh yeah, hear guys. I mean it's crazy, and that's the thing is uh so, So okay, So these these two people, they they kind of they kind of take the world, or at least the UFO world by storm telling this this you know, really wild and crazy story about how Corey had been attached to what is known as the quote unquote New Age Secret Space Program, and how he had gone fifteen or is it what is it?

48:46 Speaker 4: Twenty fifty twenty and back, but he said they did three consecutive twenty and backs, but you only he did a twenty and back, And then about two years later he comes out on stage and went, oh, I actually did three of them. Oh my god, which is like, oh, okay, reccon.

49:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what that what happens when okay, what allegedly happens when you go out on one of these twenty and backs.

49:14 Speaker 4: So allegedly you are taken. So first of all, before you're taken, you are identified as an intuitive m path via the kind of it's kind of special special ed classes in American middle schools.

49:31 Speaker 1: I guess there are those things I can right.

49:34 Speaker 4: Like pass classes or something. I saw the acronym about a week ago. It's it's super in my mind right now. But so he was allegedly identified through these testing means and taken on training lessons or sessions, and from that he was then taken from his home at sixteen years old, served twenty years in the Secret Space program and then's age regressed and time regressed back to the point at which he left, and then he doesn't recover those memories until twenty years later. So like so for those twenty years, he's technically in two places.

50:15 Speaker 4: So there's the age regressed version of whether there's like pre age regression version of him out in space, and then there's normal coreer.

50:26 Speaker 1: Oh god, so fun.

50:28 Speaker 4: It gets really confusing. But this is a question I've had. I've never seen anybody really kind of contemplate if he's out there on three consecutive twenty and backs, at any point did he interact with himself and how did that work? Once once you start applying logic, the whole thing breaks down. Does none of it makes any sense?

50:50 Speaker 1: Because he I mean so essentially what they're saying is so at sixteen, he gets taken into this program, he gets sent off into space, and because of relativity, he's fighting wars in the Kuyper Belt like and then.

51:09 Speaker 4: Like he's he's part of the off world forces. And he tries to tie this into like solar warden and uh McKinnon.

51:17 Speaker 1: Right, Gary McKinnon, what he saw in the nineties.

51:20 Speaker 4: Right, But he never he never saw here's the thing. Gary McKinnon at no point ever witnessed the term solar warden. This was a term invented on above top secret about two years later, which this has all been wrapped into the They bank on the fact that no one knows.

51:36 Speaker 1: This right and it's very put a pin in, Put a pin in that, because that become important. Ship we might be doing three hours. I don't know, man, but for as long as you can stay of course, I know you're you're in the five five ahead. You're in You're in the five ahead program.

51:56 Speaker 4: I'm in the five ahead program. It spot it spawns by Wolcock's five head. You could, sorry, David, I'm sorry.

52:15 Speaker 1: That Yeah, I can't.

52:19 Speaker 4: Maybe maybe put it over. Put it over the credits

52:24 Speaker 4: so good.

52:26 Speaker 1: That was like comedic perfect timing. Yeah, okay, so so all right. So Corey is allegedly at sixty eighties out in space and he's fighting. By the way, this guy doesn't look like he could he could knock over uh a strawberry bush, like hold a rifle with the yeah space gear. He does not. You look fuck when he started.

52:54 Speaker 4: When he started on the show, he looked like a chubby noodle and now he just looks like a wet noodle, Like it just looks like and it's it's funny how he lost all that weight. He said that he went down to Sedona and started learning how to be a vegan, and that's when he started doing all this like, oh, you have to you have to start being vegan and doing all this stuff. It's because of a bridget something down down in Sedona. She's this vegan food person that even yeah.

53:24 Speaker 1: And that's actually crept its way into the main narrative now where yeah, they think that if you eat meat, I mean, if you don't eat meat and you're a vegan, that you have better chance of contact. It's like, guys, did did you not just hear that? You know, we we kind of figured out that plants not only are they living, but they're screaming when we're down, like just because you think you're you know, you're save in the world, like right by eating plants. Like remember, we've always known that those are living things to some degree, So right, get your bullshit out of here.

54:06 Speaker 4: It's interesting because the way that they presented the whole vegan thing at the time. I ended up being vegan for about two and a half years, like the entire time I lived in Canada, I was vegan, And yeah, like this idea that it increases the ability to make contact is patently false. You're starving your brain of nutrients every day, you're delirious, you're not having contact, you're unwell. That I had. Once I started integrating meatback in in like late twenty nineteen, it was like my brain switched on and at the same time, I'm like exiting the cory stuff.

54:46 Speaker 4: So it was like it was, I don't know, it was almost like a rebirth. Like I felt like I had to kind of start the process of being human all over again because my brain suddenly like, oh, I'm a brain, I can think straight, I could have who thought I have? And I think that's actually one reason why he wanted people to go vegan, is because it erodes the mental strength that they have because slowly, over time, the getting less and less nutrients, less and less like protein or whatever that they it just wears that wasn't down, wasn't down to the point where they acquiesce.

55:23 Speaker 1: You almost have to like look at Corey and be like, it's kind he's kind of fucking genius. The way the way all is I mean, he's a cult leader.

55:35 Speaker 4: He's up I mean, he's certainly friends with a cult leader.

55:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. I put him up against Jim Jones, putting him up against God. Now, they're all gonna not come to my head. Of course, Heaven's gate. Put him up against any of these cult leaders that are well known, and look at the antics and the stuff that's being used to control the the followers, and I mean it's almost identical.

56:07 Speaker 4: Right. Well, it's it's the dynamic, right, It's what makes these people attractive to followers. It's charisma, an interesting story, or perceived power.

56:20 Speaker 5: Right.

56:20 Speaker 1: So so okay, so Corey, Corey goes, you know again God complex here, this is the you know, like this is again we're tying that back. Look, this guy he's you know, he's doing secret space. I mean he's doing missions and and he's working on the New Age secret Space program. He's twenty and back. He's done three of them. So he's he's done sixty years of service. He's super decorated, but nothing to show for it because he's regressed back to the age he's back at and only he recovers the memories through regression.

57:00 Speaker 1: Only some you know twenty odd years later.

57:04 Speaker 4: And then contact starts again, like this is the other thing he has always repressed, that regressed memories where all his memory is coming back of the twenty and backs that he's done and the experience is there. But once he starts talking to David Wilcock, then current contact begins and it begins a whole new story of soaprop Prissianalians where he's being taken off world and he's he's the galactic ambassador for Earth inside the Galactic Federation and they're using him as bait in order to kill Reptilians because they think he's the modern day reincarnation of Enoch.

57:37 Speaker 4: It's it's wild, it's insane.

57:41 Speaker 1: So so continue with that, ready, I mean, obviously I don't know how to say this. Obviously there's so when they come on the scene, like we'll go, We'll even go like past Gaya, right, because I mean that's.

58:00 Speaker 4: It definitely evolved past Guy.

58:01 Speaker 5: Right.

58:01 Speaker 4: They ended up doing movies and conferences and it just evolved beyond the show. It became a world that they were inhabiting.

58:10 Speaker 1: And for anyone who wants like the full like and I'm talking about the full picture guys, you can go watch Dark Alliance. I think it's free right now as well.

58:23 Speaker 4: On it's free, it's free on two b It's free on Amazon Prime if you're in the UK. It's available for purchase on on Amazon America, Apple TV. I mean, I'm not gonna say do it for free because I want I want your money. It costs money to do these things, but we met it at super cost effective. It's it's two dollars an episode, which is probably the best deal you're going to find on UFO documentary out there.

58:50 Speaker 1: So at it right now. And like again, guys, I will you know, I'm a filmmaker myself. You know I went to film programs. It is not And that's the thing is, you know, I do this show and I don't ask for donations like other people. I do put it up there as an ability, uh, for for people to do and for members. I give them early access and a bonus segment for each episode. And that's what you get, right There's none you know, and and and you pay what you want from from two bucks to ten bucks. You pick what you the show is worth to you.

59:28 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what they did with with with this documentary is I mean, it does cost money to make these things, so like you.

59:36 Speaker 4: Can find it for We don't begrudge anyone for having it for free, not at all. But if you can't, if you don't, if you can't afford it and you need you just want to access the information, that's fine. But if you, we do implore people to support us because the support means that we can make more. And the biggest thing that we've heard since this came out is, please, for the love of God, make more of this. I want two episodes. Wasn't enough? I agree to episodes. Wasn't it enough? It wasn't. It's yeah.

1:00:03 Speaker 1: So so with that being said, I'll put all the links, uh anyone. Links will be in the description below for the purchase. I highly recommend it because I think this is almost like necessary reading for anyone who is new to the community, especially new, because we know you're probably hurting. We know that you're probably searching for answers and something that is bigger than yourself. Don't get sucked in. So really really like this. It's an incredible documentary. I couldn't recommend it enough.

1:00:42 Speaker 1: And I want to get into a couple of things here sure now in the documentary you feature, I'm I am so sorry right now his name is not coming to me, okay, kay not not Jay wider uh Leo, the younger guy. Oh Jordan. Yes, I'm so sorry. And I reached out to him to have him on the show. I really do want to because I want to be able to dissect it, like and I think you're you're just as amazing and I want to talk to all of you.

1:01:16 Speaker 4: His perspective is certainly very interesting because he was one kind of like one level up from from where I was. Right he was, he was on that inner circle that was attractive to me to try and get to, and he was the guy he was like I remember when I first saw him, it was the is David Wilcock a lying sack of misinformation? That was his first big viral video in the community, and I immediately added him and was like, this is the guy. This guy's like my age and he's talking about this stuff that I'm really into now.

1:01:45 Speaker 1: So so yeah, Jordan has this charisma. He's a good looking guy, he's he's well spoken, he's almost like the perfect storm for him arises obviously, like you know, you know, YouTube's really taking off. He builds this channel and then he gets noticed by Corey Good and David Wilcox because they see another avenue. Now this is post Gaya. So again, for anyone who wants like the full full story, links are in the description below. But they grab Jordan, and I want you to talk about this. So they grab Jordan and why did they do that?

1:02:32 Speaker 1: I want you to explain that and what happens to Jordan?

1:02:39 Speaker 4: Okay, so let's unpack that. So it was late twenty sixteen. Jordan had been it made a couple of videos about free energy and like anti gravity drives and secret space stuff, but not it's very like proto form. It was very early stuff, and Roger Ram saw he was actually he was running the Full Disclosure Now brand and page. He was essentially Corey's manager. He'll swear up and down he wasn't his manager, but we all knew him as his manager. That's how he presented himself at the time. So he reaches out to Jordan and goes, hey, do you want to come work on this Full Disclosure Now thing that I've started supporting the work of Corey Good.

1:03:27 Speaker 4: So he starts making videos for that channel and for that blog over the course of like the next few months, and then he makes the David Wilcock video and that's the one that kind of elevated him past just being on Roger's little disclosure team and into the oh, you've entered the big leagues. Now you've called that David. And then David reposted it, and that's actually how I saw it was David posted it. And from there it was very quickly, like within six weeks, he's flying out to Palm Springs to go to com In tucked in the desert.

1:04:01 Speaker 4: Then he was invited out to the MUFMON Symposium.

1:04:07 Speaker 1: Both of which I'm attending this year, so ironic right on. And then yeah, but anyway.

1:04:15 Speaker 4: Then he got then he got invited out to Corey's technically his first conference that's kind of under Corey's name

1:04:26 Speaker 4: at the time. In twenty sixteen, there was a conference in there was a conference in Mount Shasta, but it wasn't run by Corey, but he kind of tried to present it like it was his conference, but it wasn't. So a year later they do on the day of that big North American eclipse in twenty seventeen, out there at McLeod in Mount Shaster, that's right, right, So they have a conference out there and that's what that was. Basically when they started hatching the plan to make Above Majestic, which was the first movie that they had start that they put out basically bolstering this new aide secret space program idea, and really it was one of the first films to actually uncritically examine these things.

1:05:13 Speaker 4: And to me, it just played out like a boring ancient Aliens episode with a lot of droney music. But I can see why a lot of people liked it because it was at the time they're also tapping into the seventeenth letter of the alphabet tinfoil. That kind of right. It tied into a lot of this stuff because they're talking about trafficking and they're talking about children being taken off world like. It kind of ties in a lot to this mass arrest narrative that they were pushing. And then when they did The Cosmic Secret, it was kind of more of the same, but they learnt lessons where they made it colorful.

1:05:49 Speaker 4: They got rid of the boring music. But these movies, the genesis of them was this summer of twenty seventeen where simultaneously they start wanting to make movies together, they get their kind of Avengers team put together, and at the same time the first critics are coming out of the woodwork. So you've got Richard Doylan and Bill Ryan and C. W. Chanter or Stephen Cambien like these people started posting critically about it at the same time as they start making movies, which is quite quite a synchronicity, I think.

1:06:21 Speaker 4: So now as as they grew, so did the descent.

1:06:26 Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1:06:27 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:06:28 Speaker 1: And and you know, for me the people that you just mentioned, you know, I do want to I want to talk about I want to because Stephen Cambien becomes really hell bent on kind of exposing David and Corey.

1:06:50 Speaker 2: Uh.

1:06:50 Speaker 1: And you know, I really do commend him for for being able to do what he did. Sometimes. You know, Stephen and I we we we are very usually pretty cordial. And you know, if he's listening to this, if he listens to it, yeah, I'd love to talk I really would so. But going back to going back to it, obviously the critics arise. But I mean, the new Aide secret space program has taken on a life of its own. It is generating millions of views. It is generating revenue, and all of a sudden people aren't getting paid.

1:07:36 Speaker 4: Right, That was the that was the next thank you for catching me up. My add got hold of me. Then I forgot where I wasn't the story. So after a few months after the second movie comes out, so it is I think January of twenty twenty, February of twenty twenty, that's when the last payments come through. And they'd already been a big fight over percentages behind this seams where Corey wanted to cut David out of a percentage. Jordan wasn't getting a very large percentage, and so that the executive producer, Guy Leon Kennedy, he kind of had to kind of get involved and be like, no, you're going to pay people like what they're worth, like, you're not going to give them nothing.

1:08:22 Speaker 4: And that's from there it kind of just fell apart because it turned out that Corey had he had switched the bank account at ten ninety one Productions from the kind of the corporate account that was transparent to his personal account which wasn't transparent, and then claimed that they had to audit it in order to find out what happened and how who owes who what basically, and this audit went on. I think it's still going on, like people who have just just have not been paid since twenty twenty.

1:09:00 Speaker 1: And now, of course I say this not knowing you know, I haven't done like a super tremendous amount of research into it. But ten ninety one is that issues other than this with paying people I've had. Yes, this is not the first time that ten ninety one has been at the center of some sort of kind of issue. And what I will say is it sounds like with this one, Corey was to like you could say ten ninety one is partial, you know, partially to blame. But I think Corey remains the sole, like the sole bad guy.

1:09:43 Speaker 4: In this.

1:09:45 Speaker 1: He clearly, I mean, look at what he does to anyone who gets close to him. Every single person is almost like a stepping stone. And if you go through it, every single person that propped Cory up, eventually he gets stabbed in the back to some degree, get ripped off or attacked by a group of people who have been coordinated to attack this person in order to destroy their A livelihood, b credibility and see their you know, image in who they are in the community. So all of a sudden, you have this like this this real, real, real stuff happening, arising from what is later talked about in a deposition, which really I'm so glad that that video got released because that was the final nail in a coffin that had been building itself for many years.

1:10:48 Speaker 1: But the moment Corey Good is pressured on in deposition about did you actually go to space?

1:10:59 Speaker 4: And he goes, in my physical body, I don't believe. So, like, what kind of answer is that this guy had been parading around for the time the last seven years saying this stuff is real. This conference is paying me x amount of dollars to come on stage and say this is real. Now he's going to sit there and say, oh, this was all just a marketing tactic for my comic series. Well, that's misrepresenting on contracts, buddy, Right, So.

1:11:28 Speaker 1: You marketed it as this, you know, and I don't know what the legality would be here, but when you market something as real and then it's all of a sudden some creation of meditative state, I'm sorry, buddy, that that doesn't cut it. You cannot just use that it was, you know, and that's a kind of an issue with the current world right now is like anyone can say anything and then just be like, well I identify as I identified that it had and what we all have to just go okay, okay, okay, sorry, you know it must have been realty.

1:12:09 Speaker 1: No, you fucking took money from people. You you exploited their susceptibility, You exploited their mental their their their mental states. You put them in vulnerable positions only so that you could pull them out and say that you were the hero that doesn't work. That's no, no, and and you know, I think what you've done is you've shunned the light exactly where it needs to be, because I mean, we could talk about Corey good and David will Cox all day, but the fact that remains is they weren't the first to do it and they're not the last, oh for sure.

1:12:56 Speaker 4: I mean, this is why we we bookend the series is with the story of Bob Shawt and Georgie van Tassel exactly because this stuff and the ownership of contact narrative and commercialization of contact narratives has been an issue since the first contact narratives, like literally the first ones in the early fifties were subject to this same ip money grabbing, scrutiny and behaviors back and forth, whether there's bickering or oh this he's not channeling the true entity. Only I can do that. It's exactly the same to what Corey says in that deposition that anybody claiming to have contact with the anshawer making it up.

1:13:42 Speaker 4: It's the same. It's literally the same thing. And once I had that realization, though, went, I know how to start and end the film now, like I have a framework to be able to put it in for the for the audience that don't know too much about it, but can can can get the gist from that.

1:13:59 Speaker 1: Framing right thing right, and to have been into it to grasp what's.

1:14:06 Speaker 4: Being said right.

1:14:08 Speaker 1: And So with that being said, so the UFO community often, you know, at least especially lately, often relies on whistleblowers or let's say, in quote unquote insiders, yet their claims can be very very hard to verify. So Dark Alliance, you guys address it. But how how did you approach that challenge of distinguishing you know, credible sources from those who might be exploiting the community's trust.

1:14:42 Speaker 4: So the only thing I look for is is there any documentation to prove what they're saying or is that so, like in the case of William Tompkins, is the documentation that they're providing actually saying what they say it says? So he comes out. So we got a lot of behind the scenes gayer material from the studios which we put into the dock. And there's a lot of a lot of stuff with William Tompkins where he's holding up these sketches and blueprints of stuff that he did, and there's no way to prove whether that's real or not, which makes it ultimately worthless information.

1:15:24 Speaker 4: It doesn't pass falsifiability.

1:15:29 Speaker 1: And William William, Now for anyone who's not familiar with William, can you kind of describe who he is?

1:15:36 Speaker 4: So William Tompkins was a Navy kind of blueprint designer for battleships and submarines back in World War Two. Now he claims that he was working on designing the ships, so converting submarines into spacecraft that were then used in the Solar Warden era stuff. So the stuff that Gary McKinnon allegedly saw is are the craft that William Tompkins designed way back when, and obviously they've iterated over time, but these initial designs were apparently done by him. Now there's no way to prove any of that.

1:16:18 Speaker 4: He's also was around ninety years old, and he's also dead now, so you can't prove or disprove a single thing this guy said. He was quite clearly diminishing in his interviews that he did, and then especially after his death. The same thing happened with Pete Peterson after the death. When they can't refute anything that they ever said, or can't refew anything new that's being said about them, they get used as pawns, as literally just props in these stories like oh I sent it to Pete Peterson and he said this, when that never happened and he's dead and he can't ever deny it.

1:16:55 Speaker 1: And it becomes like it's like, um, yeah, yeah, like you said, I guess you kind of put it perfectly apologize. I guess.

1:17:04 Speaker 4: Three, there's an interesting one I looked into recently. So you know Charles Hall of the Tall Whites fame. Yes, So there are two separate requests eight years apart recently, so one in twenty fifteen, one in twenty twenty three, from the National Personal Records Center saying that Charles Hall did not serve. There are no records for him serving in the military. Now, I want to preface this by saying, in the early seventies, there was a fire at the records center for the Naval records where they had the paper records for every single person.

1:17:47 Speaker 4: So there is a chance that these records were just completely destroyed in this fire and never recovered. Because this guy does have some some photos and some stuff showing he was in the military, but people wanted to corroborate this by going to the one place where you can get military records to prove or disprove this stuff in stolen ballet cases, and they have said twice there's no record. Now, obviously I'm not saying that means that he's completely bunked, but this highlights the issue that you brought up, that it can be incredibly hard to prove or disprove these things, especially when it's just a story, right, which is looking back, I should have had that thought process of Cory.

1:18:28 Speaker 4: So like, for example, when I watched his deposition, I watched the deposition before it ever got released because I was the one that redacted all of the materials of business entities and names and stuff out of it. I spent Christmas week twenty twenty two. I literally spent all of that week over Christmas redacting and not sleeping and watching it and redacting, and then i'd do that in the day and nighttime we'd be doing kind of like a watch party on Steven's channel. So that whole week I didn't sleep.

1:18:56 Speaker 4: But it made me realize this stuff about falsifiability that he because he's sitting there saying none of this stuff was true. And I realized that even before the deposition, there was no way to prove what was true and what wasn't true. It was ultimately useless information because I can't I can't test it. There's no way to stress test these stories now because they generally fall apart under the tiniest bit of scrutiny. So what happens Instead of just going, oh, you got me, they go, you're a part of the dark Alliance, You're in a pharise actor.

1:19:28 Speaker 4: You're out to destroy me by simply applying basic logic to my story. How dare you? You're going to be attacked now? Like that's that's kind of the reaction, and then the people that follow him that are looking for these answers in their lives, they react accordingly. Because so the dark Alights became part of the Cory Good narrative. David Wilcock is doing that right now, right with Stephen Cambien, where Stephen Cambien has become part of David's larger mythology that he talks about. He's accusing Stephen of being a Satanic child abuser, that's stealing money from his bank account.

1:20:06 Speaker 4: None of this is true, like nothing, none of that happened, but it's it's the only way they know how to respond to critical thought.

1:20:15 Speaker 1: And with Stephen specifically, you know, because I really like this this angle, not not that I like what's happening, but you're you're it's a it's kind of a perfect analogy to the the, the then and the now, if you will, right because it baffles me. I was actually just telling my girlfriend, I was like, because I was showing her who David Wilcox was, and YadA YadA, and I go, No, millions of people still watch him, like it's crazy to me.

1:20:47 Speaker 4: He gets tens of tens of thousands of live viewers per week.

1:20:53 Speaker 1: Real remember, I don't know if you saw it. You definitely saw it because I was looking for it last night because I want to play it. But there was this moment in David and I know I'm veering off here, but it was the David Wilcock stream, and there's two of them. There was one where he's like in this weird suit and he's smoking a fake cigarette and rambling about literally nothing about like trans people, and.

1:21:21 Speaker 4: I remember that. I remember that stream.

1:21:24 Speaker 1: Then there's another one where him and his wife are doing some like.

1:21:29 Speaker 4: I don't know, oh is this the say some ship clip?

1:21:32 Speaker 1: Say some ship and he and the mic picks it up and you're just like, kiddy, he.

1:21:40 Speaker 4: Just he just for me, like, I'll send you that clip for you to put up. It'll be ide. I made a funny meme version of it now. So but if you look at if you look at his face, so he puts his arm around Elizabeth and Elizabeth is like, oh ship, uh huh, and then he looks so repulsed to be touching another human being in that moment that it's like, what's wrong with you, man? Like that's your wife?

1:22:10 Speaker 1: Crap, that is your wife, and like not not to not to even say this, but like she's a very good looking woman too, which is super I mean for David, is kind of surprising, you know, I say good looking, you know, like I mean, she's not.

1:22:27 Speaker 4: Okay. I understand that she's an attractive new age lady. It's okay.

1:22:31 Speaker 1: She just might be crazy. Who knows.

1:22:34 Speaker 4: Oh, she's definitely crazy, like she's from Sedanna. Of course she's crazy. But there's a uh, there's a lot about the relationship I could get into, but I probably shouldn't.

1:22:49 Speaker 1: That's this is why I fucking you know, like him and I the way we approach UFO stuff. It's like we have the same skeptical mindset. It's just we do things differently, and I think sometimes he doesn't really understand what I do. It's like, listen, I give I will have anyone on the podcast. Not anyone, but you know what I mean, like anyone who's like big, you know, or or not even big. But I will give pretty much anyone the benefit of the doubt to come here and tell their story. I walk through it with them.

1:23:25 Speaker 1: I ask open questions, leading questions, and then I let the audience kind of dis deduce. I never tell them my side what I think. When I know what, I let them pretty much pretty much. I give them the equation, and then I let you know because I can say it's raining outside, but until you go out and look at outside for yourself then directly apprehend that, oh, yes it is raining, you won't know, like that's the moment when you know. So I'm giving you the equation. It's your job to look out the window and directly apprehend, you know, whether it's bullshit, you know, whether you believe it or not.

1:24:06 Speaker 1: You know, like I've had Richard dodieon, I've had Mick West on. I've had Jason Sands on. I've had other whistleblowers on, Michael Herrera, uh uh. You know, I've had a lot of people, but I've also had members of Congress on. I've had you know, a VI Lobe was just on this show. So you know, there's a difference. And that's what I always try to try to tell Steven is you know, because he's trying to have interview people and I'm like, well, you got to understand people aren't going to want to be interviewed by by like your your channel is just a little different.

1:24:42 Speaker 1: You know, you he's mad that people won't go on and be interviewed by him, but it's like they know that he's going to be starting from that skeptical star skeptical point. What you have to do is remove yourself.

1:24:57 Speaker 4: Why I would I would challenge that and say, I think I think it's it's more it's a case of like having to Oh god, thought the thoughts just going from my head.

1:25:08 Speaker 1: Oh no, So here's a good example. He calls James Fox a grifter. Now I did have a problem with that because I think James is a really, really talented filmmaker. I think he really does. And and to be a grifter, I mean, I think we use that word a lot in the community, and I think it gets thrown around far too much because anyone who makes a dollar off the UFO world, I mean, people label them a grifter.

1:25:46 Speaker 4: I think it comes I think it comes down to intent.

1:25:48 Speaker 1: Yes, again, this is not a light against Steve and I actually really I I've I love I don't I don't love him. That'd be weird. I look back to what you do and I love the content, right, and there's a place for that. I think there's balance, right.

1:26:06 Speaker 4: I remember what I was gonna say. So, it's important that you're talking about balance. It's important whilst there's balance, it's also important to be able to have these these hard, honest conversations. And if you if you're coming out and saying coming out with a narrative or coming out with some kind of euthological product, then you should be able to have those conversations. If you're gonna, if you're gonna avoid the harder conversations for the easy sell, then then you shouldn't be selling something right, especially not to this community, because it's those harder conversations that will actually find truth or some some semblance of it in context with the thing being spoken about.

1:26:49 Speaker 1: Right right and then and and the thing that I was going to bring about of James is he's one of the people that got fucked over with money.

1:27:00 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that the ten ninety one collapse. His Yeah, his film's got and it wasn't just him. Was that was Corey Good, Stephen Greer.

1:27:08 Speaker 1: Contact not moment of contact phenomena. He didn't take a single penny off of that. And actually people's people try to say that the director is different, like it James Hawks didn't direct it, and it had to be corrected. It's like, no, he did direct it. But but okay, that's a subset. So but my point is, so this again, it didn't start with Corey and David, but it's surely not ending there either.

1:27:38 Speaker 4: Oh, definitely not. It's it's continued. I can't say too much about other people in the SSPP world, but there's definitely like the network continues and like the saga continues in just other forms and looking at looking at how so for example, how they walked away from Corey in twenty twenty when the lawsuits dropped. It was a very interesting dynamic in the way that they they separated themselves and their communities. It's kind of like mitosis where or actually, here's a good analogy for any science nerds out there.

1:28:23 Speaker 4: When you have a thunderstorm that splits on the left split and a right split, often one of those splits will die and the other one will become the dominant circulation. That's kind of what we've seen here, where there's a split. Corey and his world goes off and just withers out in the planes, while the other one, the rest of the people, they just continue to grow and continue to get more success and get shows on guire and get conferences and fill that void that the previous storm in this analogy had occupied.

1:28:56 Speaker 4: So it's kind of just information theory. At the end of the day. It's information and people will fill spaces. Life finds a way. That's that's my philosophy on it. There's always going to be crazy stories. There's always going to be people coming out. We've always had storytellers, Like we had snake oil salesmen in the eighteen hundreds going around wild West towns. Go and I've got some snake oil. I got this from a mystic on a mountain, Kansas, Ego, you know.

1:29:21 Speaker 1: And it's exactly.

1:29:23 Speaker 4: It's the same thing. And to a certain extent, it is a human thing where we're always going to have storytellers. But we love to hear stories, we love to experience stories. So we're starved. We're starved for stories, like what's that movie that recently came out, Sinners, great story. Everyone's ranting and raving about it. But the only reason they're ranting and raving about it is because we're so starved for a good story that when one comes along, it becomes a world phenomenon.

1:29:50 Speaker 1: Now yep.

1:29:52 Speaker 4: So it's these people they play, they play into this dynamic of we're looking for a story, something that resonates with us. So for example, with me, I was really ill. I started hearing about David Wilcock and his research that resonated with what I was going through, so I became invested. Then I found Corey Good and his experiences mirrored my psychedelic experiences. So I became invested because I resonated with it. And I try not to use those kind of catual terms like the sermon or resonate, but that's the best way to describe it because it's it's not like my experience completely is a one to one match.

1:30:29 Speaker 4: It just it's on the right wavelength where I feel like it matches, and that's that resonance without it being a one to one.

1:30:39 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I lost my well, no, no, with that being said, I mean, look, we have people like doctor Steven Greer, and he's been accused of promoting you know, kind of like unverified claims like you know, the CE five protocols, which is very disputed because yeah, you know, obviously now with groups like Skywatcher and what they're doing, like with the un quote unquote dog whistle and and psionics. I mean it's really big right now in the community.

1:31:10 Speaker 5: Uh.

1:31:10 Speaker 1: Well, while people like Elizondo have faced scrutiny over his role, you know, in a tip, how does the movie and Dark Alliance navigate, uh these controversies without alienating the UFO community.

1:31:25 Speaker 4: Uh, trying to just be respectful and like just be in the most polite possible way to point out these inconsistencies or point out the behaviors because a big part of I think a big part of the first Dark Alliance is it's about Cory's behavior dynamics within Guia and how he dealt with business people and how he dealt with the fans, so to speak. And I feel like we get a good spread through Jay Leon and then Jordan. We go through each phase of that where it's uh the early genesis and gyre and how he kind of gained power, then how he used that power to try and make inroads in Hollywood and make movies, and then how he some fans got to come in and make the films.

1:32:14 Speaker 4: Other people just were in group chats and were directed. So it's it's just about displaying it in a contextual way. That's respectful that people can connect with. And I think that's why we framed it with the story of fantastical and Bob Short is to say to the audience, what you're about to hear is not new or shocking. I mean, it is new and shocking, but it's it's an age old story that has been repeating for the past seventy five years at least. And that's just within public record of the UFO and movement.

1:32:47 Speaker 4: We know about people like that all the way back to you know, Cavement. There's been mystics and charmans. So it's it honestly, it's just about respect.

1:32:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys, did I think you guys balance it really well, you know, not like you're not speaking down You're almost like it's it's almost like it's it's there's people crying for or screaming out in pain, and you guys are like, guys, you know, we write here's here. It is like, let's let's let's walk through it together. Right, Let's walk through and let's just let's actually put this in a chronological order and let's see let's put it all out there and see if it makes sense and it and it and it does it does it doesn't.

1:33:41 Speaker 1: I mean, it does its job in showing that it does not hold up under any You.

1:33:49 Speaker 4: Just reminded me of a really good analogy and that I was thinking of when I was writing it and in my approach. So have you ever seen the show The West Wing? Yeah, so you know the story about the guy falls down the hole.

1:34:04 Speaker 1: No, you might have to.

1:34:05 Speaker 4: So, so guy falls down a hole and he's shouting, please, someone help me out, help me out, and people keep coming up and walking by and coming up and walking by and not helping him, and all of a sudden he sees his friend. He's like, hey, Joe, can you help me out? I'm stuck in this hole? And his friend Joe just jumps in the hole and he's like, what are you doing with it?

1:34:25 Speaker 1: Now?

1:34:26 Speaker 4: We're both in the hole, and he is, yeah, but I've been down here before and I know the way out right. And that was my approach, was like, I've been here before, I've been through this, So that's my lens. That's that's how I approach it is. I'm it's almost like it's a lecture in the It's I'm trying to explain it as a teacher would in a respectful way too, in an empathetic way as well, because this isn't some dry thing. I have a personal history with this thing, right, So out of all the people in the world that could probably have taught people about this, I'm the only one.

1:35:05 Speaker 1: With that background.

1:35:07 Speaker 4: Right out of all the critics too, Like I'm the only one who was part of it and moved and had a kid and had that whole flow of events, I'm the only one. It's it does feel quite synchronous.

1:35:19 Speaker 1: You have, Like, yeah, I was gonna say, you have this really unique vantage point that like, like you said, it's like, hey, guys, I'm trying to give you a shortcut. Like I was there, I went through it. This is my experience, and you don't have to go.

1:35:36 Speaker 4: Through it, right, And that's the respectful way about it is because if you if, especially with these kinds of people that believe this stuff, so to say, while I was in the throes of believing it, if if I'd have come up to myself, or if I had watched Dark Alliance, I would have had that eager reaction of I need to protect this thing that is giving me sustenance in my intellectual wants and in my soul, right, and you want to protect that because we're hardwired as humans to seek out dopamine, and when we find a source of dopamine, we stick to it.

1:36:11 Speaker 4: That's why people get addicted to video games, to drugs, to television, what you name it. People get addicted to things not because of the often because of the thing that they're actually addicted to, but because of the dopamine loop they get stuck in. For example, my kid right loves Minecraft, absolutely loves Minecraft, and we had to like wean her off of it because of the dopamine loop. And we're, you know, we're trying to be really responsible with it. And it was a challenge and it's it got me thinking actually at the time, like wow, if it's this challenging with a six year older Minecraft, like how challenging is it when you get full fledged like cult member, like a scientologist or something like, it's no wonder they go so virulently angry because the deeper the loop, the deeper the talents are into this, like.

1:37:00 Speaker 1: You taking away their life or yeah, or you're at least shattering the current reality, right, and and it's kind of a very good thing or very you know, and and I don't I don't mean to When I say this, I mean it with the most endearing, the most endearing possible way. Is it. Your six year old is almost an addict in that sense.

1:37:30 Speaker 4: Right, And that that was what we were gutting against because we're very very conscious of that, to the point where we went, Okay, that's enough, right, And then there was a little bit of a fight about like, oh, no, I want to play more, you know, but you know, it's like that. I think honestly, becoming a parent also affected my approach to this because I'm I'm almost approaching this like a parent explaining to a child why what they're doing isn't working, isn't right, and how to stop and be better.

1:38:04 Speaker 4: You know, between oh I've been down here before and I know the way out, and also I love you, please be better.

1:38:11 Speaker 1: Right, right, And when you're in it, you're like you cannot see and and you know, for anyone who's who has addiction issues, you know this your life. You know, it eventually becomes all about the next one, the next hit, right, the next phil and and and you can look at it in the same sense. I mean, So, there was a study done and I can't remember what, like what institute it was under, but they basically they they put rats in a cage and they there was one water The one water source was like regular water, and then the other there was another water source that had either cocaine or like methanmphetamines, heroin in it, and the rats under like the fluorescent lights in the lab setting, they would they would stop eating, they would stop grooming themselves.

1:39:10 Speaker 1: I mean, they would stop having sex with each other, reproducing, and all they could concentrate was on no more in the water that was normal. They would be they would just sit there and they would constantly be hitting the coke. But then so it gets better, so they you know, they were constantly they neglected themselves for the dopamine hit and you know, essentially just crumbled until they died, you know, if something like cardiac arrest or whatever, you know, drug induced overdose whatever. And another researcher came in and said, wait a second, I mean, you have rats in a lab, in a cage with nothing else to do.

1:39:57 Speaker 1: Their only source of pleasure in that water thing. And they figured it out they can get dopamine by just you know, going this water. There's nothing else for them to do in this cage. You know, obviously they could screw the each other, but I mean and then eat and stuff. But it's it's all very like lab So they put those same rats, not the same rats, but rats in a like basically like a mimicking the real world. It was like, you know, all these puzzles for them, and you know, trees and or at least shrubbery and like more distraction, I guess, if you will, more real life conditions.

1:40:36 Speaker 1: Put those same water sets never touched the cocaine.

1:40:40 Speaker 4: Right, the real water source, and then well it's not because the landscape is texted with smaller dopamine hits, so they never feel the need or craving for the for you know, the big hit that a cocaine infused water might give. That they're just focusing, oh this thing around.

1:41:02 Speaker 1: There's more to.

1:41:05 Speaker 4: Live for, right, Well, it's more variety and choice, and yeah, right, I think I think you're right. Ex Actually, everything you've just said applies to what you were saying about Twitter spaces and the people that are terminally online and and don't have any kind of prospects outside of this uh self self propelling narrative that they're part.

1:41:27 Speaker 1: Of the chamber.

1:41:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so.

1:41:32 Speaker 1: You know what I kind of want to So, what has been the reaction from the community, you know, UFO community, the paranormal community. I kind of use them like as as interchangeable, the just the community. What's been the reaction to Dark Alliance? Obviously we talked a little bit about Darcy, but what have you been observing and what do you hope the documentary will influence with people's approach to evaluating and narratives.

1:42:02 Speaker 4: So that the state that from the top. So the reaction from the community, I actually missed a lot of the initial reaction because I went offline because there was a lot of brigading and harassment in late last year. So you know what, I don't need. I don't need the social media stuff Like I'm happy with a book or doing whatever, so you know, I can easily go offline and stay off line.

1:42:26 Speaker 1: Same.

1:42:28 Speaker 4: So it wasn't until a couple of months ago that I really started kind of going, oh, I wonder how I know that sounds kind of passive, like I just worked so long on a thing and then I release it and I don't even pay attention. But it was more it was more for my own well being because the the harassment of stuff does get this doesn't really get to me, but like I just can't be bothered to deal with it anymore. So, you know, like, I know what the film is. I know that the people that I know are gonna like it, and that's that kind of you know.

1:43:00 Speaker 4: But since then, the thing that I've heard the most is make more and I'm so glad you're talking about this.

1:43:09 Speaker 1: Wow.

1:43:09 Speaker 4: And most and most of the people that are saying I'm so glad you're talking about this are older because I think they the way that Corey started targeting the youths and through Jordan Safo, which is an aspect that I actually missed earlier, is they they wanted him on that team because he appealed to the younger audience because he was That's why he appealed to me because he was my age and I was like, oh my god, someone my age is talking about this, So the right they they wanted to appeal to the younger audience because I think the older audience was starting to cotton on that this stuff is too fantastical.

1:43:47 Speaker 4: So that the big thing that I've come across is people thanking me or me and Darcy for doing this work and talking about something that they knew was wrong. They could suss out that was wrong. They had no voice, So, you know, for there to be a production that's being shown at conferences, like I saw a video from a couple of weeks ago of Dark Alliance being shown at a conference like one hundred people, and I was like, oh my god, Like that's that's a whole crowd of people watching something that I helped make.

1:44:17 Speaker 4: And they're all old people. They're all like elderly old people. And that mixed with the reaction from predominantly older people saying thank you so much for talking about this, it definitely it makes me feel like we cut through the noise to the demographic that we wanted to hit with this, which was the type of people that would have fallen for this stuff, right and not just like not everyday normies. Like normal people can engage with the documentary and watch it. But for someone who say, followed this stuff for five years but kind of dropped off, has a whole different perceptual meaning to them because they have they have their own memories and they have their own speriences to do with this stuff.

1:45:01 Speaker 4: So they have a different perspective. So a big thing I've heard from a few people is that they're really glad that we're able to get those different types of perspectives from like from the production standpoint to the business side to the more social dynamic the cult east side, right right right.

1:45:20 Speaker 1: And you know, again, I don't mean to take it in another direction here, but you know, uh with Corey Good and David Wilcock specifically and what they did, I you know, one of an Emery Smith. And I think one person that we forget to kind of include is Michael Salah. I agree, and I think he is also like really high up on that list of people to blame.

1:45:50 Speaker 4: So I think Michael Salla is he So he occupies a really interesting space. And I have to be careful how much I say here. He occupies an interesting space because he's not a speaker per se. He's not a contact hee, he's not an individual that's saying I met Aliens. He's a disseminator. He's a story collector who republishes other people's testimony and is kind of treated like the topics in house historian yep. Because because of his background American University and stuff. It gives him some Yeah, it gives him like legitimacy in that space.

1:46:38 Speaker 1: In a hugely unlegitimate world.

1:46:41 Speaker 4: But having watched enough of him, I can tell that there is a certain level of I'm just I'm just letting this conversation happen. I'm just letting you know he's not actually one believing this stuff. He's just there as part of the larger meta narrative. And you're seeing how that plays.

1:47:05 Speaker 1: Out, right, right, and that that's yeah. And I just wanted to bring him up because we hadn't. I know, you'd mentioned his name in the panel, but I kind of forgot to say, like, he is a kind of a He's someone that I think is also like largely because of that, because of his credibility when he perpetuated these narratives. And that's that's the thing with the UFO community is they'll take they'll take certain things.

1:47:36 Speaker 5: Right.

1:47:36 Speaker 1: So the New York Times article, all of a sudden, that's giving credence to a secret space program, right because because now, look, we've been telling you, the government's lied to you. We've been telling you there were secret programs. Even though this isn't the program that we're talking about it is a secret UFO legacy program, and it is published in the New York Time that gives credence to the idea alone that there are secret programs. Now all of a sudden, people like that are using it to prop up these really fantastical narratives and using that as a quote unquote source.

1:48:18 Speaker 1: It becomes real dicey.

1:48:20 Speaker 4: It does, And especially when you mention some of the some of the people that he comes out with, like Randy Kramer or j JP I like these these they're not alien contacts, they're super soldiers or they were military assets used in these interplanetary conflicts. Again it's it's there's no way to prove these things. So it does get very very dicey with how how to deal with it.

1:48:48 Speaker 1: And what I what I think a problem with the UFO community is is and this goes to move on right a big you know. Uh So, if if the community was to admit that's something, if it's almost like they can't be and we're dealing with like the most complex, deep philosophical questions like what happens after we die? Are we alone in the universe? These are unanswered questions of the umphed magnitude. Right, these are no small feat And it's like we're afraid to be wrong in a in a in a topic set where we should be open to being wrong.

1:49:31 Speaker 1: We should be humble to being wrong and going, ah that you know I was wrong? You know this better information. But no, that's not how we play the play the game in the UFO world because if we admit we're wrong here, the whole foundation must come cracking down and it's a huge problem. And you know, I think that was part. So I guess that that brings me to this is what role do you think that the media, including documentaries like yours, plays in either reinforcing or challenging narratives that dominate the UFO community.

1:50:12 Speaker 4: So I was when you asked this a few minutes ago, I had a good answer to that come into my head. So what you asked, what do I what would I want the documentary to affect? Which is is kind of kind of the same thing, like what do I think movie the movies like this in general due to the culture. I think generally they help because when someone comes into a crazy house and starts making sense, it's gonna be hard at first. That's why I like, say, Darcy got a lot of heat when it's released, but then people start coming around and they go, oh, actually, thank you for doing that.

1:50:48 Speaker 4: So in terms of an overall effect, I'd like it to have. I would like it to affect the conference circuit more than anything. Yes, in terms of vetting speakers, which contacting the desert, for example, under their new management, they've been a lot better about inviting crazier aspects of the UFO community. Now, obviously they have to balance it business wise with what who's going to sell tickets and is an interesting speaker versus who's actually speaking just facts. So I think there's been a step in the right direction.

1:51:30 Speaker 4: And you know, I know the team over there at Contact, and you know they care a lot, like they really care about putting on a good show and not having people that are going to abuse the trust of the audience or abuse the trust of financial backers or people that anyone who might believe them. They try not to have people like that anymore, which is good because the platforming of Emory Smith and David Wilcock and Corey Good was extremely problematic at the time because it was feeding into this notion of a dark alliance and these critics to the point where David Wilcock claimed that there was death threat to contact in the Desert twenty nineteen and had security walking around the hotel when none of it ever happened, but it became part of the mythology and affected a real world event.

1:52:17 Speaker 1: So I did not know that.

1:52:20 Speaker 4: That's pretty crazy. There's there was, Like I said, there's a lot, like wow, for everything we fit into the two three hours of film. There we go two three hours of the two episodes that we did, barely stretches the surface, barely offire. I'll send you. I have so much material where I could send you that's like, wait, this happened. Wait this happened, and you know you could probably put them in here, so that would be that would be great. I do have a I have a hard cut off in ten minutes.

1:52:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I want to good. That's a good I didn't even realize that we went so long. Okay, So

1:53:11 Speaker 1: I have one question, because I always do this, I have one bonus question or like like members a couple, but I'm just gonna cut it to my favorite one. So the UFO community often portrays itself as a victim of mainstream ridicule. Yet Dark Alliance suggests some of its wounds are self inflicted through blind devotion of unverified claims. What's the most shocking example of self sabotage you uncovered, I.

1:53:48 Speaker 4: Would say probably Corey admitting that it was all false in the deposition that that was. That was the lynch pin that he hung his entire story and career off of, was that this was real. For him to then try and claim that it was marketing tactics or a marketing strategy for the development of his IP. That's probably one of the big biggest self inflicted wounds but also the biggest self inflicted heels at the same time, because a lot of people just went finally said it because we all knew it, and then all the people that followed him went, oh, well, now I have to heal from that.

1:54:29 Speaker 4: So it's kind of a self inflicted wound, but it's also a self healing wound because it it knocked a lot of people out of the orbit, which is what you know. It probably more people than Dark Alliance could have ever done. Because I remember once me and Stephen released that into the wild, I was finding clips on TikTok with like a million views of that deposition, and I'm like that my graphics card rendered that. That's funny. It was al really like oh wow, like that's all unexpected. Yeah, it was a no ship moment of wow.

1:55:01 Speaker 4: That went so much further than I thought it was going to.

1:55:05 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think, I mean, it's still looked back on as one of the you know, one of the greatest rug poles rug pole moments like uh in modern you know, quote unquote uphology. Let's so what I mean, what comes next? What comes next for you guys?

1:55:23 Speaker 4: So I can't say what or when or when or why, but we are we're very deep on the next one. It's going to be good. I'm very excited about it. It's going to be it's gonna be covering a lot of a lot of the stuff we've covered here today. In terms of the why, I want to ask one thing I want to get into deeper on this one is the why. Now if we get there, we get there, if we don't, we know there's a lot of stuff to cover. But I'm excited for it. We're about half just over halfway through production right now.

1:55:59 Speaker 1: You know, when you do finish it, i'd love to you know, obviously revisit this conversation, and.

1:56:05 Speaker 4: You know, I'll be able to get into a lot more stuff to the newer people.

1:56:10 Speaker 1: Right right. And you know, if there's any if there's anyone that's watching this that might be you know, still stuck aside from watching Dark Alliance, you know, what would you say to them?

1:56:28 Speaker 4: I would say, log off, get offline, go outside, meet people, empathize and interface with people in the real world. This this ufone narrative that you're you're following week to week or I guess it's not really a weekly thing with Corey anymore. But people that follow these New Age secret Space program narratives, I would say, create space for yourself. As someone that was completely wrapped up in the stuff to the whint I changed my diet, I was following a new age lifestyle.

1:57:01 Speaker 1: You had a kid.

1:57:02 Speaker 4: I had a kid. Still the coolest part about it, I think, Yeah, it creates creates space for yourself, don't It reminds me of something that David Thibodeau's mom said to David Thibodeaux when he called her from the branch Davidian Church. Don't give all of yourself to them, keep a little bit of yourself for you and from there that's where you. That's how like that little bit of yourself is that guy jumping in the whole saying I've been down here before and I know the way out.

1:57:37 Speaker 1: What an amazing that well, that was such an amazing spot that we'll just leave it there. And gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for watching today's episode of Total Disclosure or what listening this has been Cary lindsay again, all the links for Dark Alliance will be in the description below, as well as where you can follow up with what he's doing and what is going on in that and that side of the community. Uh, super super thank you to going like for for spending this time with me today.

1:58:12 Speaker 4: Hey, Norah's thank you for having me. Can I can I plug my Twitter? Can I can? I? Yeah? So I'm parennally posting crazy memes and UFO history and stuff online. You can find me at Fires of Truth on x. I also have a substack, but I don't write on it too much. It's called Spooky Speaks dot substat dot com. I did a good review of the Disclosure First conference a couple of years ago, where there was an ill fated trip to Rachel, Nevada, and James Fox bailed on his film premiere. Go read it. It's pretty interesting.

1:58:45 Speaker 4: But thank you very much for having me, and thank you for listening, audience and watching. It's been a pleasure. I look forward to having more continuing dialogues about this because I think it's an important it's an important conversation, and it's important to have these honest, hard conversations where we can approach these ideas without having to get emotionally wrapped up or triggered in it, which I think is going back to what we were saying, is a big problem within the community. Absolutely of an emotional regulation is important for the topic, right.

1:59:18 Speaker 1: I mean, because I saw a UFO, I saw some other stuff, and you know what I mean. It's like I know what I saw, but I don't know that there's a secret twenty M back program.

1:59:28 Speaker 4: Right.

1:59:29 Speaker 1: That sounds legitimately crazy, and you know, to just to be able to discern the two, like we know that there's UFOs because we understand that there's unknowns and that this world is not you know, it's not black and white. There's a lot of gray, So why waste time with all this fanciful bullshit when the truth is often you know, stranger than fiction already.

1:59:55 Speaker 4: So thank you.

1:59:57 Speaker 1: Like I said, thank you so much everyone, guys of the life blood of this show. I couldn't do without you, wouldn't do it without you. And you know, keep you know, stay vigilant, question everything, and we will seem