MARIO WOODS: The Nuclear Base Security Policeman Abducted By Non Human Intelligence- SPECIAL PRESENTATION

0:00 Speaker 1: And as we turned left on the not a hard lift, just a dog leg left. There sat this object on top of November five that was about ten feet in the air, directly on top of that blast door. That was the size of a Walmart building. It was huge and it was a sphere.

0:19 Speaker 2: I sat down with Mario Woods, a former US Air Force security responder. In nineteen seventy seven, he was stationed at Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota. Then age twenty three, he experienced an incident that would change him forever, literally leaving him with missing time marks on his body and a colleague locked in catatonic shock for.

0:43 Speaker 1: Hours, literally could not get a breath of air. It was just all encompassing me.

0:50 Speaker 2: So here it is my full interview with Mario Woods.

0:57 Speaker 3: So who are you?

0:59 Speaker 1: Oh? My name is Mario Woods. I currently live in Southeast Georgia. I'm sixty nine years old. I served in the Air Force from nineteen seventy five to nineteen eighty three, and in nineteen seventy seven had quite the experience on November five, Mississi, which was a minute man two one point two mega ton weapon in the ground in a harden structure in a silo just north of a small town named Newell, South Dakota, which is thirty miles north of Sturgis, which most people have heard before. And this is a high plains area of buffalo running terrain.

1:39 Speaker 1: Seen them a few times also, But one o'clock in the morning changed my life that week of November we say eighteenth in nineteen seventy.

1:52 Speaker 3: Seven, and you were stationed at Ellsworth.

1:55 Speaker 1: At Ellsworth Air Force Base, that's correct.

1:57 Speaker 3: And what was your role there? What were you doing?

2:00 Speaker 1: Security police assigned to the missile squadron. You have about eight hundred security police officers that work work the site and about one third or assigned to aircraft back at the main support base of Ellsworth, the actual air force base. All the missile sites themselves are manned by six man teams and there are one hundred and fifty men of man two missiles with fifteen launch control facilities. Is where you live and you act as a response team while on duty on a twelve hour shift to respond to any and all given alarms or launch facility checks or anything that an ordinary police type duty would be.

2:43 Speaker 3: Not for our sake, but for the context of the audience. Do you have any mental health history prior to your siting in nineteen seventy seven year experience. In nineteen seventy.

2:53 Speaker 1: Seven, No, I do not. I was part of the Personal Reliability program. Also for sensitive nuclear equipment.

3:00 Speaker 3: Can you explain what that is?

3:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, anyone that works around any type of nuclear devices, weaponry, or construction of or the storage of nuclear components whatever it may be, plutonium, uranium, or anything that's used in the h in that particular field. You have to be cleared and granted a clearance in order to do it. If they detect anything that's abnormal with how you may react up to an including taking life if you have to, and you know, in preservation of keeping that hours or saving someone's life. I mean, they really analyze you deeply to see if you know you can't do that, and you.

3:42 Speaker 3: Have to report if you're taking any sort of medication.

3:45 Speaker 1: Oh, they know, yes, any sort of yes.

3:48 Speaker 3: Diagnoses in the past dealing with mental health.

3:50 Speaker 1: Correct. They do random blood tests, your analysis everything. We didn't have gum swaves back then or you know, the tests were quite different back in that day. But that was really there. There was no leniency in that.

4:06 Speaker 3: Okay, so you're in Ellsworth Air Force Base. It's in nineteen seventy seven. You have a partner that you're working with.

4:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, that name, yeah, Michael Johnson. He's a real light skinned black guy. He told me he was from Chicago, Illinois, and we only worked together that one day. He was working vacation really from my partner, whose name was Steve Welchell, who went to North Carolina to get married. So he had thirty days and wish to do that. So in the interim while we went on a tour into the field. Remind you your main base is Ellsworth and you report there are SATAFF for our operations facility is at Ellsworth and all the different all the three squadrons meet there for this huge guard mount as we are.

4:46 Speaker 1: You know, we depart from there on buses or helicopters if the weather's too bad and they can't travel on the road, and we go out to our respective launch control facilities where we live for three days at a time and come in the morning of the fourth day.

5:00 Speaker 3: So set the scene for the night in question.

5:03 Speaker 1: What are you doing? Really nothing. We had gotten out there probably about nine thirty ten o'clock in the morning. Usually if you're working the night shift which we were assigned to, which was six pm to six am. We try to lay down and take a nap, but you know that young and strong and vibrant, I didn't really see the need to do that. So during the day I just stayed up and did some other things, played some ping pong or something, and that night we went on due to at six pm, of course, we go in and we get all of our code tables issued to us and all that stuff.

5:37 Speaker 1: Or when we're dispatched, it can be either or. And I guess it was about nine o'clock, nine to fifteen or so, and I smoked cigarettes then, so I just thought i'd walk outside and have a cigarette. And it was between nine and thirteen degrees outside, so I have my long Johns on over my fatigues, and I just walked outside, and you know, you're talking prairie land as far as you can see north and east and west, and you don't see south because the building's behind you. And I see this light off to my east at about a thirty degree angle, and it looks like like a mini moon.

6:19 Speaker 1: I honestly thought it was it was the landing lights or some type of landing lights for a B fifty two bombers because the main base supported aircraft uploaded aircraft of B fifty twos, and they often flew sorties or tests runs across the prairies at night, usually at around three hundred feet, so it was like a low level flight, right. It was pretty cool to see that. That's what I thought it was. I thought they were coming to me. That's why I couldn't really gauge the distance. I mean, I thought five to seven miles, and I'll stick with that at about thirty degrees, but that it never changed, and I kept looking at it.

7:05 Speaker 1: Looking at it. Now, if I extended my hand this way, it covered the circumference of the of the lights. I was the light I was looking at.

7:14 Speaker 3: So how far away was the object?

7:16 Speaker 1: I would guess five to seven miles. And the reason I say that is at the end of this I can make that correlation because you got to have things that you know that put all this together. And it was just so strange. It was as if there was a light right out there, a few miles away from you, and you know it doesn't belong there, but it's not coming near you, and it's not going in either direction anywhere else, and there's no noise associated with it, just sits there. So that's where I was with that, and I'm smoking this cigarette, and I thought, what, Literally, I thought, what the hell is that?

7:52 Speaker 1: It can't be Is that be fifty two's or is it helicopters. We did have helicopters back then, but I never saw them fly at night like that. And so again I just thought it was two B fifty two bombers together so close, you know, one behind and a wingman like you know, like that that I just took it as that. But I held my hand out like this and it covered the light the circumference of the light. But if I did my fist like this, then it was larger than my fist was. And I thought, that is really strange.

8:22 Speaker 1: How can that be. When I sailed with my father growing up, I went to see with him a couple of times during the summertime. He could do that. You can't do that today, but back then, you know, a chief engineer could do that.

8:36 Speaker 1: I went inside the facility, went into the flight Security controller office, which was just right to the right as you opened the front door, and Bill Holloman, he was a established sergeant. He was talking to his wife back at Ellsworth, and the toggle switch or the rocker switch was on the wall just behind him, right next to the entrance to the elevator door where the officers used to go down the elevator to the caps. And I said, hey, Bill, I said, there's something out here, strange in the air.

9:03 Speaker 1: I said, some lights. I said, do you mind if I flipped my lights? Flip the lights at this thing? And he just looked up at me, literally, and he had that big old gray phone back to his head and he just kind of waved me off, you know, like, go ahead, do what you want to. So I just, honestly, no sos or nothing. I just flipped it off and on off and on off and on three times. And I ran back outside and I was probably twenty twive twenty twenty five feet away from the door and just a little bit to the east of it, of the door, of the front of the door, and just watching it.

9:37 Speaker 1: A couple of minutes went by, maybe a minute and a half, and all of a sudden, this thing goes out on out, on out and on, and it just sent shivers up me and I went, wow, they do see me. So I literally thought it okay, because I've had them do wing waves at me before, like fighter aircraft or helicobra's elf do a little swing like that up there, so you want to go. And as security policemen you're taught that. You are taught hand signals and flashlight signals, you know, for aircraft if you need to be rescued or you're trying to aid them getting to the ground or what have you.

10:11 Speaker 1: You know you are trained on that. So I just thought it was really cool. I thought, all right, well let's carry this on a little bit further because still it was in the same location, not coming closer, no sound. So as I went in, I said, hey, Michael. Didn't know Michael from Adam's house, Kent. It's the first time we ever worked together. And he was just simply come out, sent out to work vacationally from my partner. So I went and I said, hey, man, there's something in the air you need to come and look at.

10:41 Speaker 1: And now he worked missiles also, but on a different flight. He was usually at a different location. He didn't work in November, and he outranged me by two months by the way, so he would be driving the vehicle and I would be the passenger or the team member. So he kind of looks at me for a minute and really is not too excited. I said, come on here, man, you got to see this, hoping it would still be there when I went outside. So he comes outside. I said, hold on right there. We walked about twenty twenty five feet and I said, look at that.

11:09 Speaker 1: You see that? He goes yeah. I said, I just flashed the lights at that thing, and it flashed back at me, and he just looked at me as in disbelief. So I said stay right here, and I ran a neuro fast and I said, hey, Bill, you got to come see this thing. Because he and I we went back aways and we knew each other pretty well, and I don't know what kind of discussion he was in with his wife, but he chose not to come out and stayed on that down phone. So I flipped the lights again, same sequence, bliplip blip blip blip blip, three of them three times, ran back outside about two minutes past, and it goes out, comes on, goes out, comes on, and stayed on twice three and two.

11:49 Speaker 1: That's right, And so he just kind of looked at me and looked back at that. I said, what do you think man? He goes man, I don't know, And I said, to do it again. I'm gonna do it again. Maybe it'll I said, do you hear anything? Couldn't hear nothing. He didn't hear anything. He didn't seem to be too impressed. I must say that. He just it didn't seem to really get a hold of him the way it did me. I was excited about it, still not knowing what it was. I said, I said, it's got to be be fifty two's no reply, So I ran back in again.

12:22 Speaker 1: I did the same thing. He stayed right there, flipped it off, flipped it off, with it off, lit on, ran back outside. I know Bill Hollman thought I was a nut by that time. So I get back out there, and it flipped off and it did not come back on. But when it did come on was about it was about thirty seconds or so. It had moved just a little bit north, but it had moved further westward, like from that position to this position, which made it look save from the say, from the three o'clock position where I was visualizing it seeing it maybe to the one thirty position something like that, and he came on and it just stayed right there.

13:03 Speaker 1: Never heard anything, never saw any type of flame or anything like an after burner or nothing. It didn't move. It just was right there. And he goes, hey, man, he just said, I don't know, And I said, what do you think it could be? Whatever? Whatever? And he walked back inside. So the last time I went in there and flipped the lights at the thing came back out, and then that would be the fourth time, and it was out and I didn't see it again. It was when I came back out, it was gone or it was out. So I just shook my head.

13:36 Speaker 1: I just took it as well. I guess they went that way, you know, maybe flying up toward or over toward Belfoush, which is about thirty miles away north and west of our location. More north of that's North Dakota, you know. So I mean we were in that proximity, in that high northwestern area there, And so I just went back inside. And I guess all this time from like a quarter after nine to about nine forties when all this transpired, you know, maybe nine thirty five. It's hard to be exact, but I try to be and I went in and started playing some cards, watching TV or something or he didn't want to do anything.

14:13 Speaker 1: As I said, we literally didn't know each other, and we didn't We spoke very little, and other than the fact that I knew, you know the area in November, you know that site and all the missile sites where they were located, which are ten of them, he was just there to fill in. So we watched TV until midnight and that signal comes on. It used to be looked like a radiological signal used to come on at twelve o'clock when on the three stations that we have would go off the air and then it would have that loud knowing you know that signal.

14:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that happened, So he just turned the TV off. Nation was a different place than believe me, was in a different place then, and I guess it was about twelve fifteen when as I was sitting down, I think I was looking at a book or something. I hear the alert phone in the flight security controller's office go off. And that's the phone that's directly connected to the launch control people downstairs, two officers downstairs, and it sounds like and it rings until you pick it up. You got to snatch it off the wall.

15:22 Speaker 1: And of course Bill Holloman did that, and I hear him saying, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, Sit four November five, which is a two pronged alarm. It's an above ground and a below ground sensor that has been affected. And as I said, the temperature was between nine and thirteen degrees that night, so it was cold. Sat on my long John's fatigue pants and shirt, you know, and my I had on bunny boots because I knew I was going to be doing some walking, because you have to do a certain certain type of route around the facility on foot inside and outside the fence line, which is a good walk and snow it gets kind of a little dicey CAUs it just does.

16:04 Speaker 1: But anyway, so we got all of our equipment. We had our weapons, we had our coat tables, we had our ditty bags, which is what you carry all your stuff in. And the F one fifty four pickup truck was sitting directly outside our front door. We keep it plugged in because it gets so cold there that it will freeze up the coolant in your engine. Or they also have a way of keeping the transmission warm with a plug in so unplugged that we were set to go, the vehicles warming up, and we got our safety briefing and everything that we needed, and off we went.

16:37 Speaker 1: And I'd say that was probably right around twelve, twenty twenty five, and it was a fifteen minute excuse me, travel time to November five. And strangely enough, that was the closest launch facility to our launch control facility where we lived. It was the closest one as the crow flies. It was only maybe five and a half miles away, but that you had to get there made it probably ten miles or eight and a half ten miles somewhere in there.

17:10 Speaker 1: So as we left, we go through the gate out to the end of These are all Clay roads. You can go from one end of the state on the other on the Clay Road and they're maintained by the state. They're very nice. Got to the intersection, hung the left. There's no traffic, believe me, there's no traffic. And next intersection, turn left and it's four and a half miles from that intersection up to Highway seventy nine which runs down to newle So you're going uphill as you go down in this little depression area.

17:39 Speaker 1: You're going uphill toward the highway bed. As they build them highs of snow and ice runs off of them. And I just happened to look to about my four o'clock position, straight that way where November five was located. And when I did, I see, I see this pulsation like an orange, yellow and white glow coming off the ground from miles away. Should never have never seen that before. And I said, hey, Michael, I said, check this out, man, I said, you see that glow over there? I said, look, look off, I said, can you see that?

18:12 Speaker 1: He didn't say anything yet. And as we got up to Highway seventy nine and we turned right, then we were on top of that plateau, and now that four o'clock has become like a one thirty again, and I said, look at that, man, I'm telling you that's that object. And why I said that, I don't know. He just said, whatever, man, And he said that to me a couple of times that night. Whatever man. So as we traversed down Highway seventy nine toward Newell to a stop sign. There's one stop sign and one stop light, and Newell and the population then was two hundred and thirty people in that town, and it was on the entrance and the exit on Highway seventy nine.

18:51 Speaker 1: Every time I entered Newell, population was two hundred and thirty. When I left, it was two hundred and thirty. So now it's six hundred and something. So I was there in twenty one. But as we went downhill, I lost sight of that, of that pulsating glow. We went down to the stop sign, we took a right, and the road goes out about a mile and a half and then a dog legs back to the left, and as we turned left on them, not a hard left, just a dog leg left. There sat this object on top of November five that was about ten feet in the air, directly on top of that blast door.

19:28 Speaker 1: That was the size of a Walmart building. This thing was as big as this building you're in right here. It was huge, and it was a sphere. It had an energy source that moved around it like like you'd see pictures of the sun. How it's just like boiling. I don't want to call it plasma, but I don't know what really to call it. But there were no tail sections, no portholes, there were no thrusters. There was no leading edges of any kind, wings tail, sex, nothing that we would associate anything in the air with.

20:02 Speaker 1: It was a complete sphere, but on a magnitude that is just hard to even comprehend.

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21:50 Speaker 1: So we pulled up to this thing about sixty feet on the access road to the side itself. Yeah he's you know. I think the fence was either ten or twelve foot fence with big opening gates on it. And we pulled up at a forty five degree angle right where the cattle crossing is located. Because all these ranchers owned this property and the property was leased from them to put these missile sites on back in the day when they built them, so the cattle can't come out into the main road. It still happens, but it really decreases that from occurring.

22:22 Speaker 1: So we pulled up right at that cattle gate, and immediately upon doing so, immediately upon doing so, it was as if a light came down that just blew my eyeballs out of my head. It just you could literally almost see the veins behind your eyelids. It was as if I don't know what kind of energy that was, but whatever was released or put down our way just completely almost disabled you just from the brightness. It was like living in a welder's light for a few moments, and then the atmosphere just vacated.

23:03 Speaker 1: Couldn't breathe literally could not get a breath of air. Now, I don't know if that was from my excitement. I don't know it's from adrenaline. I'm twenty three years old. I was in excellent shape. I could flat foot twenty five miles in full combat dress and smoke a cigarette at the end of it didn't bother me a bit. Literally, I was in that kind of shape. Wow, And I was just so taken Michael Johnson. I never remember him looking up at the thing, but for me, I was at a forty five degree angle and I'm looking directly out his window and part of the back window in the from this is an F one fifty four pickup truck, a nineteen seventy five or seventy six, I can't remember which, but the square body type pick a truck with the Western mirrors on the sides of him.

23:52 Speaker 1: Two will drive vehicles. And the only thing I knew to do was to ask for relief. And where did that come from? I have no idea where that where that thought or impulse came from.

24:07 Speaker 3: You pray to God or Jesus or just relief generically.

24:10 Speaker 1: I think he was in there and I just asked for relief from what I was experiencing to breathe because I didn't think I was going to be able to take another breath of air. And I grabbed my flashlight, which I've gotten ridicule before. It was like it was an aluminum black three D cel flashlight. Think it was made in Japan, I'm not sure, but it was a great tool and they just started making them. Now maglight didn't come out until seventy nine. I had this in seventy seven. It was given to me as a gift.

24:41 Speaker 1: And I rolled the window down and I reached up with my right hand and I grabbed onto that mirror pulled myself up on that window seal because I was so afraid to step out of the cab of that truck. Now I'm fully armed, what would I be afraid. I've never been afraid to do anything. I mean, especially in my duty. I was so afraid of what I was experiencing. I didn't know how to I know how to deal with it. I pulled myself up on the seat of that up on the window sill of that truck, out of that seat, and I grabbed my flashlight, and I had a glove on my left hand, and I had I had my flashlight on my right hand, and I had had my hand on the blue bubble up on top of the glove, and I just I just flashed that flashlight at this thing like I did at the facility.

25:36 Speaker 1: I guess, I don't really know. And as soon as I did, it felt that I got relief. It felt like there was relief, and I just slid back down in the seat and as I slid back down on the seat, I noticed all these I noticed dust particles and stuff that in a way in which that cab was lit up that it's hard to describe. It seemed like everything was in slow motion. Like the dust that was in that calve circulating from the vent work was like it was in slow motion movement. I was looking at it as like sparkles or something, or like glitter.

26:10 Speaker 1: It was like that, And I thought, what's happening here? What is this? And I was trying to breathe. I was trying to talk to Michael, got no answer from him, as he was just stuck or glued to that, to that steering wheel, and he was just bathed in a blue white light. You know. The light intensity never honestly went away. It was just it was just all encompassing. It was just it was just all surrounding to a point where you're like trapped in light. There's nowhere, there's nowhere to go. I mean, there's nothing you can do about it.

26:46 Speaker 1: You just I don't know. I just felt like somebody had me right where they wanted me for some reason. These thoughts and all this that I just described went by in just a couple of seconds, not minutes, but just a couple of seconds. All this just happened so fast, faster than what I've just told you. And then this black ball, about six times the size of a beach ball, looked like as if it had vents or something on it, not round vents, but these long, long like lines coming down the side of it. Just it didn't touch our truck, but it shot right down in front, over the hood of this F one fifty.

27:35 Speaker 1: And I don't even know what to say, but it was so fast and so whatever it was doing quick that it just bounced around from every location on the truck front, back, left, right, in front, and then it was just gone. I don't and I still don't know how much time has passed. Then I became afraid, and I made sure I rolled my window up. I put my AM sixteen when I came back, got it back in it. When I slid back into the truck, I put my AM sixteen between my legs and I was holding onto the barrel. I don't know where my flashlight went.

28:14 Speaker 1: I just knew to secure my weapon between my legs and I held onto the barrel. And this permeating smell I have no idea where it came from, because, as I said, my window was up, and I know his window was up, so it had to come through the ventilation duckwork, I guess. But it permeated the vehicle like I mean, stench, smell bad ammonia, like you want to roll the winds down, you want to step outside and get some fresh air. I mean, some of the cleanest air on the planet runs through South Dakota year round.

28:43 Speaker 1: But this was like standing in a in a I don't know, when a bottom of a boat or something, you know where they catch shrimp, I guess, and dump them there, but put them there. I shouldn't even say that, but anyway, it was overwhelming. And when I smell that, I just got a real strange feeling from within, like

29:10 Speaker 1: something when you're afraid or when you're scared or something. Because I knew that wasn't normal, and I know I'd never smelled that before. I only associated with what associated it with what I smelled in the past, trying to make a maybe a visualization in my mind what it could be. And the light never stopped. The pressure did. We could breathe again, or I could breathe again, Michael Johnson. He didn't. He never said anything from the time we rolled up to that site anything. The last thing he said to me was on the top of Highway seventy nine when whatever man as it was glowing over in the far distance that I saw this pulsation off the ground or what I took ass off the ground from where we were from driving there.

30:01 Speaker 1: And so when that happened, I felt as if I was becoming I was sleepy or tunnel visioned or something. I kept shaking my head as I relive it as we're sitting here right now, I kept trying to I felt as if I was going to go out. So I was trying to hold my breath and squeeze, you know, like pilots do that, you know in g suits to keep the blood in their head, right. But I felt as if I was going to pass out. And I started getting this tunnel vision effect in a way where I couldn't I couldn't see, and it was just getting smaller and smaller, and it was black on the exterior of that visual that I was looking out the front window.

30:46 Speaker 1: I mean, all these thoughts are running around in your brain and this is only take This has all taking place in just a couple of minutes, not ten minutes, not even five minutes, from what I understand. And as I'm blacking out, I know, I feel something on my right side, and I turned my head and I see these four I'm gonna call them beings, And they are not walking as you and I walk. They are just gliding across the ground, maybe I don't know how high off the ground. I couldn't really see that, But they have these little uniforms on and the one on the far right, he had some type of a small wand in his waistbelt.

31:30 Speaker 1: I've got a drawing of it that had a yellow tip on it, some type of a yellow tip, and it really got my attention, and I was and I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. But the one behind those three, the front three were the same size, exactly the same size, looked exactly the same. But the one behind him was a chest and a head taller than the little guys. And he and this thing on his chest right here that pulsated the same color as what was on that little wand. And when I saw him, and then I was afraid.

32:10 Speaker 1: Then I felt fear, maybe just visualized fear. I don't know. They didn't do anything to me that caused fear other than where I was and what I'd just gone through. And then I went black. I just I just went that's the last thing that I saw in my mind. And just a second went by, and literally I came. When I came to, my weapon was between my legs and I'm still holding on to it. And I just looked straight up like that and right out the windshield of that one fifty in his total blackness, and I thought, where where'd all the light go?

32:50 Speaker 1: Where's no Literally I didn't even know where I was. We were? I said, Michael, Michael, where are we happen? Where's November five? Because this it's lit up. It has lights on it, you know, they're like like pole lights. It has those type of lights on it at night. This is a standalone facility, so even if external power is cut, this thing takes over and has a generator run itself. Right.

33:14 Speaker 1: No answer from Michael, And I kept yelling at him, Michael, Michael, what's going on with you? Man? And I pushed him in his shoulder really hard. I put my finger in his ear. After a couple of minutes. I shoved him, shoved him, checked his pulse, he was breathing. I couldn't get anything out of him. He was as if he was in some type of a state which I didn't even really know to have the words for, as if his eyes were open and he was breathing and his heart was pumping. But he was just stuck on that steering wheel.

33:45 Speaker 1: And I tried, I don't know how many times to get him to say something. I said, snap out of it, man, what's going on? What's wrong? I got frustrated with that, and I just popped the door open, little lever on the side. I popped the door open, and I stepped out, trying to get in my mind where November five go, because that's where we were, I mean, and this was a this was a very serious alarm. So that reason had to be found out why that thing alarmed how it did in that alarm configuration. And when I stepped down, I stepped in mud with those money boots on, and I went, what the hell?

34:27 Speaker 1: How is this? And then to my right, where your chair is located, maybe a foot further, there was a wall there at about a forty five degree angle, and it was white, and it went up about I don't know as far as I could see, like fifty feet, when my eyes got more accustomed to the darkness. And then when I looked in both directions, not knowing exactly where I was on the compass, it was as far as I could see that direction, as far as I could see that direction, and of about fifty feet. When I become acclimated to the to the darkness, had no idea where this was.

35:03 Speaker 1: I said, Michael, come on, man, you gotta wake up. Dude. We're you know, we're in a bad way here. We got to find out what the hell's going on here? You know nothing, nothing. I even tried pulling his hand off that steering wheel, and he was just, he was just. I don't know how a person can stay that tense and for so long that he don't cramp up. I would cramp up doing that, but he did. The next thing that I knew was I hear WSCEED and November one. That's us WSC November one, watch your location, and I just I said, are you going to get that?

35:43 Speaker 1: Thinking that would snap him out of that. Hearing that radio signal a radio call for us, He didn't answer and I picked it up, and I said, Senior Eman Woods WSC. I said, uh, I don't know where we are, and he goes, do you need medical help or do you need assistance? And I said, I don't know, Sir. I said, I'm fine, but my partner won't respond to me. I said, he's awake, breathing and well, but he won't let go of the steering wheel and he's just sitting in a driver's seat just like he is stuck.

36:15 Speaker 3: He's just like in the frozen kids state.

36:18 Speaker 1: That's the word that I had never heard when it was told to me, catatonic state. And that's correct. He was. So when I finally got out of the vehicle again and walked and looked, and I'm thinking, where did all this mud come from with this temperature because everything else is frozen. As I said, that wall was at about fifty feet high and at this strange angle like forty five degrees. Well, it was the backside of the New Lake Reservoir dam, and that is about on the map, about eight miles eight and a half miles away from November five.

37:01 Speaker 1: Now, we only had two wheel drive vehicles, and where we were positioned behind that dam was in the very center of that damn wall a really at the most center point, and at the far end was the slew gate where they control the water flow and allow it text to go out if it gets at the reservoir gets too full. And in front of us was the rest of the dam, and that road ran north and south wing. Security control told me to maintain one minute security checks, so they were trying to triangulate our location.

37:40 Speaker 1: Now I'd never done that in tech school, but i'd heard of it. I may have read something about it, but i'd never done it or been part of that training, so I didn't know how it was done. So I did what they ask and I probably made it, probably made, I don't know. I probably made twenty twenty five checks before they got to us. And as I was doing that, I noticed it was getting light to the east and that was the sun coming up. And then it dawned on me. Well, man, we got this alarm last night at twelve fifteen, and I looked at my watch and it was after six am.

38:16 Speaker 1: So we have all that missing time. And I can't explain any of it because for me, it was just what I saw, what we experienced, what I smelled, lights out. Next thing I know, we're sitting behind the new Lake Reservoir dam miles away, miles away. The sergeant Garza it was there were three alert teams looking for So that's six security policemen from three different sites. Whether they use the primary or the backup alert teams, I'm not really sure. And in twenty twenty one discovered that not only did they were they searching for US, but wing security control or base control or whoever.

38:58 Speaker 1: They were asked for a federal or state assistant. So they sent out two deputy officers from Sturgis and one state trooper that that area was his area. And I've got a guy that's named Steve that's working on as he is a state trooper today. Who that deputy was or who that state trooper was, it was on duty at that time. And two of the three are passed, but one named last named Kellogg is still alive and I'm trying to make contact with him.

39:29 Speaker 3: Did Michael Johnson ever make it out of his catatonic state, your partner.

39:33 Speaker 1: No, not while we were there. When sergeant guards have pulled up, he pulled up within say sixty feet, I guess he didn't want to get into the the snow area that we were in. He pulled up, and I walked around the back of the truck, walked out toward him and I said, I said, hey, certain guards, how's it going. I said, what's going on? He said, Mario, I can't talk to you about this. He said, I'm just here to escort you back to November Control. And I said, okay, but I need help with Michael Johnson. And he looked at me kind of strange.

40:04 Speaker 1: He said, what do you mean. I said, I can't get him off the steeringwheel, and he won't talk, He won't say anything. Well, you know, I've never dealt with anything like that, or anybody else has that. I know O where somebody's you know, locked up frozen in some type of a state of catatonic state, hanging on to something. You know, usually you can you know, I literally couldn't believe how hard it was to get that man's hands off that steering wheel. I couldn't believe it. So we unbelted him and did that, and we slid him across the driver's seat and into the passenger side, belted him back in.

40:37 Speaker 1: He just sat there with his hands down, looking forward and I kept talking to him, thinking at some point he would just feel fall free, you know, or whatever he was experiencing. But again, this was a two wheel drive vehicle, and walking around that vehicle, as I just described, on the left side or driver's side of that vehicle, about four and a half foot away from that door was a drop off that's there today, and that is the holding pond for anything that comes out of that dam. And it's pretty dead gum deep.

41:09 Speaker 1: So had we gone in there, driven in there, I'm just this is a what if. Now. Had we driven in there, that road's only five feet wide, there's no way that this too will drive F one P fifty Ford with road tires on it, not even any big mud tires or anything. Didn't even have those back then, would be able to turn around. We were just in the only position we could be in to drive out of that dead gum place. And I drove out of it, and I never went over any tracks, and it hadn't snowed anymore or anything that nothing had changed since since we were there.

41:43 Speaker 1: When I left out of there, it was the only set of tracks coming out of where we were, one set of tracks. But had he opened that door, and stepped out of that vehicle or I had you'd gone right down now, you know, it wouldn't have probably just slid down in mud, but it was down pretty deep, and it was just amazing to me how we were in the right position to exit there. That's important to me trying to explain it to myself how this took place. So followed them back to the launch control facility to November one.

42:17 Speaker 1: They escorted us all the way there and then two of the three teams dropped off, and I guess Garza or one of the teams remained. I guess they had to have when we were going to be removed from the site and taken back to the main base of Ellsworth, which is about fifty five miles away, And I didn't know that at the time. They had to have our replacements immediately there. That you can't be understaffed on any kind of launch control facility. It has to be fully staffed at all times. So when we pulled up at the site, my flight chief was there, mass re Start Hawkins or Master Sart and Joel Gray.

42:54 Speaker 1: Assistant flight chief was Tech Sargeant Hawkins, the facility manager. He was a tech sergeant now the two officers that were on duty, they were off duty now and they were above ground. They had been relieved. They were placed them Surro underground. Bill Holloman, the sight cook,

43:14 Speaker 1: and of course you had one of the one security response team that remained him and his partner. So they took me in the day room and I told when they came out to meet us, the gate slides open. I pulled in right in front of the flight security Controller's office and they just descended upon the vehicle. Well, we got our bags out and all that stuff, and they went to the pastor's sign and I said, I don't know what's wrong with Michael. I said, I can't get in to speak. And I said, we had a heck of a time getting them off this steering wheel.

43:45 Speaker 1: Nobody said anything at that point. They took him, put him, put his arms over their shoulders, and they took him to the back room. I think in the in the facility manager's quarters. I don't know what they did, but that's where they took him. They took me into the day room where I walked into the day room, and mind you, I had been up the entire day before five o'clock in the morning till we had guard mount traveled, you know, to get out there, then stayed up all day, went all night long until this happened.

44:16 Speaker 1: And so now it's probably somewhere around I'm going to say seven fifteen, seven thirty in the morning, and we had just departed New Lake Reservoir Dam and I had never been there before. I never I never knew that place was even there. And it's a little north of November Control and it's sitting back off the road about four and a half miles, so it sits way back up on the prairie, and I honestly had never been there before. No one knew about it, And so they started banging me with questions and what did you see?

44:50 Speaker 1: What did you do? You know, how did you do this? You communicated this, you didn't report this? You know what was wrong with the sight? Just all the these things were coming at me, and I was answering every single one of them, and they believe me, there was a bunch of questions. You just don't go missing on a nuclear missile site for five hours and not answer questions. It's a big deal.

45:15 Speaker 3: Did you get the sense when they were asking you questions that they had seen things like this before, or like it was this completely novel thing where it's like, what the hell happened here? We have no idea, like we have no idea how to even we have no pattern recognition for this.

45:31 Speaker 1: Well, there were rumors years before I got there that something happened down toward the bad Lands in the sixty sixth area and where two security policemen were found out of their vehicle. The vehicle was some distance away from them, their weapons were distanced from them in an open a prairie, and they one was found completely with no clothes on and the other was just about like ninety percent unclothed. And I don't know what happened that, but there were always talks and rumors about things in the air or things on the back of the runway at Ellsworth.

46:06 Speaker 1: You know B fifty two's uploaded bombers that are ready to go uploaded on the alert pad, and what are the U F eighty six is at one point or a couple of times to chase these objects away. And I think there's several reports of that. One of the guys that I know who's in the S sixteen pilot, Chris Leato, we were talking about We were talking about that one time. But anyway, they questioned me up one side and down the other. And I remember telling Master Start and Gray, I said I can draw some things if you'd like me to, and that the question never really got I don't know if it didn't get to him or answered to or what happened, But they just kept asking questions, and I got to the point where it was just everything was just at one time coming from space in my mind, questions about the whole deal.

47:03 Speaker 1: And I said, hey, I said, I got to go to the restroom just to get away from it for ten seconds. I just wanted a little bit of peace, just for a few seconds of trying to cope with what I had just seen, lived through and experienced. There's nothing I ever had before. And I went to the restroom and I opened up the stall door, which is still there today. I went right back to it in twenty one and I just went and sat on the toilet and closed the door. And you know, as a regular stall, the doors about that high up off the floor blew.

47:38 Speaker 1: And these these facilities were extremely nice. I mean you could they were not. They were very well maintained and extremely nice and I was just sitting there on that toilet thinking about what I had seen and what it transpired. You know, the thought hit me. I didn't even strike the site. And that's the procedure that you do when you arrived at the facility, that's required for you have these steps that you have to follow to eliminate whatever threat there is there, but to assess the entire situation and report that back.

48:14 Speaker 1: We never reported anything back like that, you know, we didn't. I don't even think we used the radio from moments of arrival. I really don't. I can't remember if we did. And all of a sudden, jesse, I get this ringing in my ears. That was as if somebody struck a liberty bell right next to my head. I mean, really, I have to emphasize that, because it was like it got my attention. I don't know if I reached up and put my hands on my ears or what. But when it happened, everything turned like lime green to me, like pea green.

48:48 Speaker 1: And I didn't It was as if my vision was changing, or some part of my visual acuity was changing. And close my eyes, and when I did, I had this feeling I was leaving my body literally I was, you know, I thought I was dying. I said, I guess this is this, this is how you die. And every time I closed my eyes, I felt as if I went without going anywhere. I felt as if I kept going lower within myself. And I knew that there was a clear channel to exit me through my feet. I knew there was. It was a map, there was something there that I could leave if I so she chose to do so, and it scared me to death.

49:38 Speaker 1: It's literally scared me to death, man. And when I opened my eyes that last time, I saw four fuzzy feet walking by pause, walking by the bottom of that door with a set of cocker and military boots behind him. That was a dog handler and his drug dog. So you know they had gotten one of They had gotten them to come out fifty five miles out from base to go through all of our stuff, make sure there's no drugs involved. And I said, man, I said, I'm glad, I'm glad to see you because he didn't know what I just experienced.

50:09 Speaker 1: And I said, my diddy bag is out there in the day room. He says, that's all right, Mario, we already have it. I don't know who he was, but he knew my name. I don't know if you had just been told my name or what. You know. I played a lot of tennis back then. Been somebody I played with. But I said, I'll be out in just a minute. Man. He says, yeah, no worries, man. He says, you're all good. Just come and check on you. That's what he said. Just came in to check on you. I said, thank you. So they left or were leaving, and I opened up the stall door and I just went to the sink and mind you, I still have on my long John's and my fatigue pants and shirt and you know, saying clothes.

50:46 Speaker 1: I was in about thirty hours now and I just turned that faucet on its ice cold water, and I just literally just drowned myself with water. I was just soaking wet because Masters Sartin Gray said something to me as I came out there. He said, what did you do climb in the sink or something like that, and I did. I don't even know if I answered. I just said yes, sir, so I think I had a towel in my hand, and he said, well, he goes, get your stuff. He goes. We have to go. We have to go back to the sat TAP building that was our main operations building aunt Ellsworth.

51:20 Speaker 1: And I said, yes, sir, so I grabbed my stuff and immediately I said, well Michael Johnson, he said, don't worry about him, He'll be going with Sartant Hawkins. I said, okay, And I really wanted to talk to him, but immediately upon arrival at that site, we were separated right then and there. Now I don't know what good it would have done, because he wasn't coherent, or wasn't answering or anything. Anyway.

51:39 Speaker 3: He hadn't said a word nothing.

51:41 Speaker 1: Not one word that I knew of, not one word. He hadn't said anything to me or to anybody else that was there. And I don't know how they transported him, you know, other than him telling me that mattresstar Tex Sardant Hawkins was going to take him to the base. Right. So I got my diddy bag and loaded up and UH got my weapon, everything, and off we went to Ellsworth and it was about an hour ten minute ride back to Ellsworth. We went in through the back gate at Box Elder and went straight to the SATAP building and he escorted me the entire way Armory turned in, turned in a weapon, all that stuff, and which was normal procedure, you know, went to Ralphie Spreaker's office under escort.

52:30 Speaker 1: And of course when you are called in like that, you do a formal report in where you literally bangled, knock on the doorframe or whatever, even if the door's open, you knock on the door frame, and then your commander whomever tell you can enter the room. You enter the room, go directly to his desk. You know, he was together at attention, you know, report in, you know, Seniorman was reporting his order, sir, you know, and he told me at ease, but he didn't tell me I could sit down. Never forget that.

52:58 Speaker 1: I just thought it was strange, and he had to know how long I'd been up. I mean, I was weakened, if I may say, I just felt really weakened in a different state, not knowing what I'd experienced. I was still wet from an hour and fifteen minutes ago from the sink, you know, So it was really strange. And he asked me some questions, and he said, I remember saying, sounds as if you've had an interesting evening or night or something like that, and I said, yes, sir, And I looked to my left and there's a total of five people in that room.

53:34 Speaker 1: There's the deputy base commander who I don't remember his name, but next to him was a man in a gray tweed suit with a hat and the hat was under his arm. Then there was a Captain Jack Reid OSI. Next to him was this new OSI guy named Rick Dody.

53:59 Speaker 3: Interesting. Yeah, so, and do you have any speculation as to who the guy in the great tweet seat was.

54:05 Speaker 1: I was never introduced to him nor told his name, and I only found out Jack Reid was a captain in OSI. He was the lead OSI officer on Ellsworth at that time, and through an email that Rick Dody sent me after about five years of trying to trying to get him to answer my emails or talk to me, because the first time I saw him was on Ancient Aliens, and I said, I know that guy. He was at my debrief.

54:33 Speaker 2: I was a counter intelligence officer for the Air Force Officer's Special Investigation. I was personally fascinated by the fact that Richard Doty had been involved in the aftermath of Mario's case. I knew about Doty because of a great book called Project Beta by Greg Bishop. Doty was an Air Force counterintelligence agent basically tasked with performing a psychological operation on an innocent researcher named Paul Benowitz, who had seen an exotic craft at Air Force Base. Doty convinced Benowitz that he was in touch with aliens, even receiving signals on his computer.

55:06 Speaker 2: This eventually drove Benowitz into psychiatric hospitalization. So the fact that DODI was part of Mario's debrief is fascinating, seems very important and requires follow up by some brave souls.

55:18 Speaker 1: And up to that point, I had nobody. Yeah, I'd had nobody that could say, yeah, they were there or whatever. You know, what have you? I tried running down my old flight chief and assistant flight chief, but with no success or anybody else, and especially Michael Johnson. Some money has been spent trying to locate Michael Johnson. We've looked in hospitals, we've looked.

55:37 Speaker 3: In can't find him anywhere.

55:38 Speaker 1: No, Sir, and I reported at the Arrow in March of twenty three. I think when I spoke with them, did ERA follow up at all? I don't know. They never got back with me four hours and nineteen minutes I spoke with them.

55:51 Speaker 3: That's crazy.

55:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they set I would get a copy of everything which had been you know, talked about. They say, they don't record it. How do you? How do you? How do you send somebody a copy without recording something?

56:02 Speaker 3: Come on, that's ridiculous.

56:04 Speaker 1: Can you write that fast? No?

56:06 Speaker 3: But I mean it's also like.

56:07 Speaker 1: And there's more than one person sitting there also.

56:10 Speaker 3: Oh my god, but you I mean, the government agency tasked for investigating UFOs and you don't record your conversation. That's absolutely absurd.

56:18 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then two weeks later is when Kirkpatrick went on and said there was no substantial evidence.

56:23 Speaker 3: Can you contact Michael Johnson's family?

56:26 Speaker 1: I don't have any way, I don't have any any numbers or anything. He said he was from Chicago, Illinois. Believe me, every resource, including other law enforcement officers that I know today's technology have not located him yet. Neither has AERO.

56:39 Speaker 3: So what was your interaction with Dodie?

56:41 Speaker 1: Nothing? Not One't that we'd ever spoke or anything like that. He was directly reporting to Captain Jack read next to him.

56:49 Speaker 3: Okay, So that's fascinating, right, that this guy who's clearly this disinfo agent, you know, at least in the context of Benowitz, is showing up seven years earlier, eight years earlier in your case, and you don't know.

57:02 Speaker 1: Ran new he rand new then. So as a person that's very high in this whole thing said, those were the days that when he was probably honestly not changed in any way. Perhaps I just want to say that the right way because we you know, we I email him once in a while and he'll answer me back, whereas it took me about five years to get him to even do that, and then we got to be on a cast together.

57:35 Speaker 3: So real quick, just context. He now has come out saying he's reformed and he apologizes for you know, his malpractice in the past. A lot of people are suspicious of that reform. It does feel a little bit sometimes to me like he's flooding the zone with this info, like he'll talk about, you know, six alien races. Yeah, and it just seems extremely speculative and not based on any sort of evidence.

58:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's more than I know how to swallow. I only know that what I witnessed is my incident, and anybody that I could get that's you know, that was there has some idea of it or that I knew. I've done everything that I can to try and locate them, and he is the only person so far that I have found alive. And mind you, I'm sixty nine and I think he's older than I am. I think I think that's what he told me, that he was in his seventies, and I have no idea. I mean, when I saw that thing the other day about him saying he was it was from seventy eight to eighty eight when he was in OSI, really really bothered me.

58:39 Speaker 1: And that was just last week that I saw that. And I'll try to find the program again and I'll send you something about it.

58:45 Speaker 3: Did you have any biological after effects after you had this experience?

58:49 Speaker 1: Well, I, if you want me to, I'll explain that because I get sent over to the flight surgeon's office after this entire debriefing takes place and questions and like you wouldn't believe from my commander, and I just relayed everything that I just told you, with the exception of what I saw or what I thought I saw at the side window of my vehicle. Had I said that I saw these beings, they would have immediately removed me from the PRP Personal Liability Program. I'd have lost my clearance, I'd have lost my job, I'd have never been in the missile feel again.

59:32 Speaker 1: And I was newly wet at the time, and I needed a job, and I loved what I was doing. I just had no idea that something like this could even happen.

59:42 Speaker 3: So did you lie about what happened?

59:44 Speaker 1: No? I did not lie. I just simply did not tell them what I saw out that side window to them. Everything else the size of the craft, you know, and how we came upon it and flipping the facility lights at it, and I told them the entire story. Sorry, up to the point where what was out that window, I never said a word about. Yeah, so I had to write that in the report also. But that was after about an hour and a half, almost two hours of this debriefing in the commander's office. And once that was done, he said, well, we're going to have the flight surgeon to take a look at you.

1:00:20 Speaker 1: I said, yes, sir, okay. So they loaded me up in his staff car and took me over to medical. And I'd never been in a flat surgeon's office before, thinking, oh boy, well, you know, what's what's this going to be. And I'm still wet, Like I said, I'm still damp from the water, the basin bath, I call it. And uh. I stripped down to my underwear and my and my a T shirt or something, and there was a nurse in the room and there were two flight surgeons and it was a time and when they had these these gray like separating walls that were about five or six feet high with this little waving glass at the top of it, so if you walked in another room over there, you could see heads, but you couldn't see what was going on.

1:01:03 Speaker 1: That used to be like a big like a room divider or something. And that was important because the guys from OSI, they were on the other side of that, of that wall, of that that panel, and I knew they were there. Uh. And as the doctor's you know, started you know, asking me questions, it was one tall and one short.

1:01:26 Speaker 2: Uh.

1:01:26 Speaker 1: They tested my ears, eyes, nose, throat, looked at my joints, my hands, my fingers, you know, just literally everywhere. And then they'd like walk over a few feet away and they'd talk a little bit and I couldn't quite hear what they were saying, and the nurse was just over to my right and uh came back and the one of them grabbed a you know, a latex glove and he puts it on his hand, and I just thought, there's a nurse in here. And he snapped that thing. You know, I just thought, oh, you know, really I did.

1:01:57 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, man, you know, we'll look forward to this. And he goes, uh, everyon woods, you mind if I take a look at your gums. And that was the that was farthest from my mind of anything in that room that day. And I said, excuse me. He goes, yeah, I need, I need to look at your gums, your teeth.

1:02:19 Speaker 1: Uh that was better than the alternative. I said, sure, okay. So I just sat right there and he just hooked my mouth and he just took his index finger and his thumb and he just went all the way around by gums and my teeth, squeezing tops and bottoms, and I mean really took his time and spent time up here in the front under my tongue, just pressing down like on the bottom, like the floor of your jawbone or something. And h took him a couple of minutes and believe me, if somebody puts their fingers in your mouth for a couple of minutes, it's strange feeling.

1:02:52 Speaker 1: It's not something that you that you want to repeat or have repeated.

1:02:56 Speaker 3: Why do you think he checked that.

1:02:57 Speaker 1: I have no idea. I have honestly no idea. And when he stopped, he popped the glove offs. He says, you know, you have a couple of burns on your body, right And I said, excuse me. He goes, yeah, above your right eye and on the back of your right hand. Well, I didn't have a glove on this hand, and my beret came down like this, you know, as my beret was on my head, and it burned me right above my eyebrow right there. Now, I did have those air force glasses on, and I think that's why I had a strange curve in it that in that little sunburn.

1:03:29 Speaker 1: But he says, we need to take a skin sample, and I said, oh, okay, and they pulled out the nurse had this little tray with two types of our two little stainless cylinders on it with cork tops on it, and I guess the tool was inside the little cylinder thing. He popped that off. He went up here and he just clipped a piece of skin off there, and he took the whole tool and he stuck it right down in there, put a cork corn it later on that tray. I felt it, you know, it didn't feel like much, just a little clip, I mean, like clipping a nail or something, you know.

1:04:05 Speaker 1: And then he did it on the back of my hand, once over here and once a right over here. Same tool. I don't know if they could pick up two different pieces of flesh, but that's what he used, the same tool, put it in the other one, corked it and did that, and they walked over for a second and talked a few more moments, and then they turned around and said, uh, thank you, you know, but you know you're done. You know you can go back over to the commander's office now you can get dressed. I said, yes, sir, thank you.

1:04:32 Speaker 1: Okay. So when I look back up os I had they had they had gone. So there was a driver in the in the in uh Colonel Spraker's vehicle. He was waiting on me. When I got dressed and went back out there. Uh, I got in a vehicle only straight back to Colonel Spraker's office where os OS I was there. So Colonel Spraker asked some more and every time I asked about Michael Johnson, they tell They kept telling me, don't worry about Michael Johnson. He's fine, he's fine. Really bothered me.

1:05:06 Speaker 3: It just almost sounds like they're covering for something.

1:05:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, he don't worry about Michael Johnson, he is fine. And uh. Oh, when I would to go back to Colonel Speaker's office again, I had to go and do a formal report in again and uh do everything else told then he told me I could sit down in front of him, which I did, and then the uh Captain Jack Reid walked over to his desk, Colonel Spiker's desk and handed him the paperwork and uh. At the same time, Colonel Spraker handed me these reporting forms. I don't know what. I don't know the number, but he handed me these.

1:05:48 Speaker 1: He handed me these forms. He said, I need you to write down every single thing that happened on that site tonight, from the time you got this alarm to the completion, you know, And I went, oh, I mean, I very well and I'm pretty detailed, and I'll be happy to do that again, I omitted what I saw at my right window, so I never got a copy of that. They would not let me have a copy of that, which I found kind of odd because anytime any other time, you know, you get article fifteen or something, you get a copy of it, you know something bad that you've done.

1:06:20 Speaker 1: And again I felt as if I'd done something incorrect or wrong, because I knew I didn't strike that site, and that seemed to be a big question, is why I didn't you strike this site. Of course, they had to have somebody address that alarm. I don't know who and how, but they did. But then Jack Reid walked over and handed him to this other piece of paper as he was putting mine down, and it was like a non disclosure agreement. But I don't even think they had that terminology then. I just think it was something that I was told.

1:06:50 Speaker 1: For one, this was now a classified incident. That's what I was told, and I was agreeing to that, and that I would not speak to any type of They didn't even use the word social media. It like media people at any time, if anybody comes into the missile field, you don't talk to anyone period. You don't even tell your wife. And now she thought it was odd because I should have been gone come back in the morning of the fourth day. I had just departed the day before. Then this happened that night, and then I wasn't allowed to call her till about three o'clock when everything was said and done, and I agreed to that agreement.

1:07:28 Speaker 1: So Rick Doty's job, what he later said when I questioned him about it, was he was there. He was brought in to go over sent over to the flight surgeon's office to pick up our medical records, min named Michael Johnson's. Now, I had no idea Michael Johnson was even over there, if he was truly there or not, I'm really not sure. I never saw him. I didn't see Michael again, as I said, for about eighteen days. But uh, he was there to study.

1:08:03 Speaker 3: So you did see Michael eighteen days later.

1:08:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was there to pick up just our medical records and bring them back to his officer, which I find I just find indifference with that. You know, there had to be something said about what just happened. I mean, for one, it was an incident of security, being that we didn't do what we were supposed to do, and we had five hours of missing time. They have to account to that for somebody, somebody higher than that based commander or deputy based commander and that squadron commander. They had to address somebody, say right, pat or wherever they have to up channel reporting has to take place at that incident.

1:08:44 Speaker 1: So I was able to call her at about three o'clock and she picked me up and she sees me I had a band aid up here, and I got one on the back of my hand. What happened? I can't tell her, and I had to stick with that, and I said, just something happened, And I said, my partner and I we were brought back in. You know, I'll go back out. So I got extra days off. We'll go back out on next rotation. But I never went back into MBOR control. He sent me to Kilo Control under the scrutiny of my flight chief and assistant flight chief and the OIC, which was a lieutenant over all the missile over everything out there in that sector.

1:09:21 Speaker 1: And he had a hit not a name, but he had a terminology, not a flight chief, but an officer in charge of flight operations. I'm not sure. And he stayed there at Kilo Control, and of course I was a member then never a team leader again until the day I nine months later I got my assignment to go to Korea. But getting back to that, about two and a half three weeks later, we're living in called Hayn's Way apartments. They're still there today in Rapid City. I get this or none kid you not. When that knock came with that door, I knew it was Michael Johnson.

1:10:05 Speaker 1: I knew it was that man. And I never met him or had him in any kind of other than sitting in the cab of that truck, which I not. He only said like three words to me whatever man and outside to or I don't know what it is. And that was back at the sight when I was flashing the lights at it. That's all he'd never said to me, other than the fact that in the day room or on the way out on a bus he said he was from Chicago, Illinois. He was not married, and he lived in the barracks. I knew that. He knocks on my door open.

1:10:32 Speaker 1: I said, Michael, how you doing, man? I said, come on in here. We got to talk. You know, band heads are off had no more marks. It was sunburned kind of thing. It was more marked what he did, what he took off, than there was when the skin healed, so which was nothing. I'm old Tampa boy, so I'm used to sunburn, you know. I looked like this in the summertime. But he came in and I said, I introduced him to my wife, and I said, all right, this is what we're going to do. And he looked at me and I said, I want you to draw what you saw, and I'm going to draw what I saw.

1:11:04 Speaker 1: Now. I hadn't drawn anything up to that time other than pyramids and trying to find out what the hell a pyramid, what it is, what it does, and what's supposed to be or why.

1:11:14 Speaker 3: Real quick before you say what you both draw? Was he in a normal state again? He was talking, He was cool, and like, okay.

1:11:22 Speaker 1: Yeah he was. He was cool. He was still reserved, but he was cool, you know, because we didn't really know each other that well.

1:11:28 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:11:28 Speaker 1: Sure, And so he comes in and he meets my wife, and I think I put him at the kitchen table. We had a round kitchen table, and I sat at the coffee table on the couch and I started drawing, you know, the craft, what I saw, you know, and we talked about you know, what we heard, what I heard everything. He saw the craft, he saw the black sphere in front of the vehicle, jumping up down, He smelled the smell, he heard do not fear. He heard all that and saw every bit of it, but couldn't do nothing about it.

1:12:08 Speaker 1: It was as if he was just literally turned off and couldn't respond to anything. He felt everything. I ran that finger in his ear that deep. I felt really bad about that, but I just wanted him to know that I was trying. I was checking it. He knew that I was checking him from what you know, what was going on, you know, But he couldn't do nothing about it. He couldn't undo himself or just move.

1:12:33 Speaker 3: So how'd you guys leave it?

1:12:34 Speaker 1: So?

1:12:34 Speaker 3: Did you? You drew very similar things?

1:12:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, we drew the exact same pictures and everything.

1:12:38 Speaker 3: Can we see the pictures and show the audience?

1:12:40 Speaker 1: Well, I do have the drawings. Yeah, I don't have him from him, but I've got my rendition of him.

1:12:56 Speaker 3: That's remarkable. And then after that, what happens between Michael there an hour, hour and a half and it was a good kid.

1:13:02 Speaker 1: And it was good vibes all the way through. He had some tea or something and we talked some more. Said hey, well we need to get together again and chat some more, you know, and he said, yeah, I agree with that. That was the last time I ever saw him.

1:13:14 Speaker 3: You couldn't get in touch after that, No, she tried, No, Yeah, yeah.

1:13:18 Speaker 1: I don't know where he went. I don't know what happened to him. I don't know if he was sent somewhere else. It wasn't eight months later, well, it was about seven months. Six months later, I got promoted to an NCO noncommissioned officer buck sergeant, so I know he had to go. He he outranked me by two months, so he had to be upgraded also or promoted to an NCO.

1:13:39 Speaker 3: And have you tried looking up his records?

1:13:42 Speaker 1: Yeah? Everything, anything and everything.

1:13:44 Speaker 3: You can't find anything.

1:13:45 Speaker 1: I can't find a damn thing.

1:13:46 Speaker 3: Do you think the guy in the Great Tweed suit? You know, I think Bob Jacobs talked about two guys in Great Tweed seas.

1:13:52 Speaker 1: I think he was a GS Government Service employee.

1:13:54 Speaker 3: Okay, and so he was probably.

1:13:56 Speaker 1: Bob and I talked about that too.

1:13:58 Speaker 3: So he's probably the highest ranking guy in the.

1:14:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean for GS service perhaps, but Colonel Spraker was the highest ranking in that room, and I don't remember the rank of the deputy base commander.

1:14:12 Speaker 3: If you have one hundred and seventy, you know, people seeing a thing around nuclear bases and they're all told to sign non disclosures after they see a thing. What do you think the real number is? Given how many thousands of people have worked at nuclear bases, you know in the seventy year plus American nuclear program history, you think it's over one thousand.

1:14:33 Speaker 1: It has to be. I would say that anybody even today then they're still active. You know, Ellsworth has been decommissioned. On the missile side, I think that was in nineteen ninety two. And the only missile that ever flew out of the ground and the minute Man program was at November two where I was located, not during my time but in the sixties, and I believe it flew for five seconds. That was detonated, you know, a dummy warhead. You know, they just wanted to make sure that it would launch out of this That's all mind's eye view from every one of those sites are standalone sites.

1:15:08 Speaker 1: Those missiles are stand alone with that launch control facility. So in each launch control facility, you got ten one point two megaton missile systems sitting in the ground all around you, I mean up to miles away from you. As I said, you know, November five was the closest launch facility to November control. If you had the technology to shut off one missile or to alarm one missile, would you not know that that's the shortest response time? And this is really reaching, But why didn't they set off November ten or November nine up by Castle Rock?

1:15:46 Speaker 1: Or why didn't we know? Why was it they didn't have no time to spare or what they just sat off November five? They knew we were coming. I literally, I really do think that. I mean, I don't think it was they knew. I think they know they can and see the power grid under the ground because everything out there is underground everything. That's why they ask how they keep power on in the winter time. They build underground all these years.

1:16:09 Speaker 3: Also, the response on the human side for you feels oddly routine. If that were like the first, the only incident that had ever happened, you'd think that, you know, the superior superiors would be freaked out right, like it's like you have nuclear missile silos, like, yeah, these are that's it's it's it's our you know, top of the food chain when it comes to American defense.

1:16:32 Speaker 1: Yes and offense or so we think. Yeah. So there are other variations, and I think they in to engauge our overall knowledge on splitting the atom and what's in those two hymn shales, what source we're using where it's no matter if it's plutonium, it's uranium or what it is. And I worked at those facilities too. I was with US DOE for quite some time also as a security inspector. So I've been through a lot of these laboratories. I've been to Los Alamos, Sandia, oak Ridge, Nashal Laboratory, the Y twelve facility, Oakridge Gases Diffusion Facility, and General Electric Neutron Devices where triggering mechanisms were built RTGs.

1:17:10 Speaker 3: So where were you at g Schinektiki, New York.

1:17:14 Speaker 1: No Largo, Florida. That was their DIE facility, which is now decommissioned. I don't do it any longer. They made the triggering device there that is used that you can see all.

1:17:24 Speaker 3: It's clear whatever's going on in the UFO site is very interested in not only nuclear weapons, but it seems like nuclear energy.

1:17:33 Speaker 1: Right in anything in which we use an atom for. But I honestly think that they gauge our intelligence on that in some way, and that's why they're so closely scrutinized. The other thing that's funny, I think they have a sense of humor. And the reason I think that is when you get all these sites that are shut down and everybody scrambles all offline and everything like what happened to Robert Salas for instance, and his commander. The flip side of that is when one of these it's alarm and start its countdown as is it's going to launch.

1:18:05 Speaker 1: So the response to that, once you're dispatched, if the launch crew wants to dispatch you, if they're really worried because they have an override also that they can do something with. And I don't know exactly how that works, but their dispatch you to the site with your F one fifty four pickup truck and all your goodies. You got your ditty bag, you weapon, your stuff, You're ready for it to be out there for two weeks if you have to every time you leave, you can stay out in that missile field for a very long time period.

1:18:38 Speaker 1: The missile is counting itself down. It's going to launch. You take and you go to the site, You open up the gates, You drive your vehicle right up on top of the blast door, which is at ground level, right on top of an octagon shaped nine ton door, and sit right on top of that site, right on top of that blast door. Put your vehicle in neutral. If you can find a rock big enough, chalk both tires, just chalk one front, run back so that don't roll if there's a little bit of lean to one of the one of the doors or something.

1:19:10 Speaker 1: So all we were told, grab your stuff, get off that site, and set up a one mile ECP entry control point and wait for further orders in hopes that if this thing cannot be stopped or overridden, when that when that blast door blows out from underneath that vehicle, it's going to fall down on top of that, on top of that rocket, and all it's in hopes to do is to damage it to offset its guidance control, so it'll just go off aimlessly like a scud and crash. That's what it. That's what they do, and get down to ten or fifteen seconds and it stops.

1:19:47 Speaker 1: Then everything's normal again. Crazy and people rolling up on these sites have sometimes seen those craft. Then they blow away and then that happens, you know. So I would venture to say that there were a hundred security policemen at Ellsworth Air Force Base while I was there. That's standard configuration. That's not an operational readiness inspection or anything like that. They were just normally eight hundred or right there. About security policemen, law enforcement and or security anybody that works in that missile field, I would say, I would say one out of every four has probably seen something in the night sky, because everybody works rotating shifts.

1:20:29 Speaker 1: Whether they report it or tell their partner about it is up to them. But I'd venture to say it's that frequent, that's why. And that's just that Ellsworth. That doesn't include min Not, that doesn't include Malstrom or F. E. Warren in Wyoming. I've been told or asked just recently if i'd appear before Congress, and I would. I would appeared before Congress. And I know that's pretty hair raising for a lot of people, but when they get all the scientists and all the pilots and everything else out of the way with these huge credentials, I was just a security policeman at twenty three years of age.

1:21:13 Speaker 1: I have a high school education, I have some college I've been mostly technical schools all my life, and I really try to read a lot and do a lot of things to educate myself further. It just didn't work out for me being able to do the things, you know, going to college and so forth. When they're done with all of that, they want a real up close and personal account, then they've got to come to me sooner or later. And you don't have to put that in this, but you know, that's what somebody up there told me.

1:21:46 Speaker 1: They said, eventually they got to hear somebody just had an up close and personal time with these things. So being that was on duty, I was a prime candidate for that, as I've been told. And I wish I had more witnesses. I wish there were people that could just pull up out of nowhere. You know that we're there, but you know, there's just so much time has passed. You know, we've been through so much with COVID and everything else. I don't know.

1:22:13 Speaker 3: What about what about the guy you said you were buddies with where you ran in and you started signaling that what you thought was a B fifty two At the time, it.

1:22:22 Speaker 1: Was his name Bill Holloman, Bill Hallman.

1:22:24 Speaker 3: I'm still in touch with Bill.

1:22:25 Speaker 1: Well, I know it's William William something Holloman. We called him Bill and he was from North Carolina. I have searched how many names of the last name of Holloman, I don't know. And that's the only way I've even did you.

1:22:37 Speaker 3: Even speak to him one on one after that? Being like number one, we signaled the thing.

1:22:42 Speaker 1: I was never I never went back to November Control. They sent me to Kilo Control. They's completely separator, so I never saw Michael Johnson again until about three weeks later.

1:22:53 Speaker 3: So they just separated you. And how far is Keilo Control from November.

1:22:56 Speaker 1: Honestly, it's a sister flight, but it's where the supervision and hang their hat at nights. Instead of us being at November Control or any of our OSCAR flight or any of the other flights where you don't have the supervision of a flight chief and an assistant flight chief,

1:23:14 Speaker 1: you do it Kilo. So they have a way of monitoring, watching every single thing that you do, and also the OIC.

1:23:21 Speaker 3: And so you just never saw Bill again.

1:23:24 Speaker 1: Note maybe at guard Mount once or twice. Hey Bill, that kind of thing just passing.

1:23:29 Speaker 3: You say, hey Bill, you know what about I.

1:23:31 Speaker 1: Wanted to, but it never really presented itself. And there were a couple other guys there, even at Sergeant Garza. I'd love to have spoken with him again because and he was from Texas. I remember that we talked about it, and because I was just that close born in Port Arthur, but I was born in Virginia and my parents and they moved to Port Arthur. My dad could ship in and out of there.

1:23:55 Speaker 3: And you received a hypnotic regression about all of this, Right.

1:23:58 Speaker 1: I did, I certainly did. Bob Upton did my first one, and Yvonne Smith did my second one.

1:24:03 Speaker 3: What came out?

1:24:04 Speaker 1: Uh, well, the the uh the inside of the craft?

1:24:12 Speaker 3: What was that like?

1:24:14 Speaker 1: I've got some drawings of it. But what I saw or what I experienced in my mind, uh, it was not all pleasant. M and these these were the one that was messing with me was a very tall one that was doing the you know one thing to me whereas in regression number two, I found out that Michael was laying opposite to me, and it was one of the short ones or small ones between us both and uh, he was facing one direction, I was facing the opposite direction, kind of like like that would be.

1:25:01 Speaker 3: And uh, what were they doing? Were they doing taking samples?

1:25:04 Speaker 1: Or well? The tall one did something to my wrist and I kept telling him how to hurt me, and he and uh, he told me he said something, you know,

1:25:15 Speaker 1: we don't hurt you, or something like that. I don't remember. I'd have to go back and listen to it again. I don't even listen to my first regression session for a year. I was so afraid of what I what I would hear, or what I would find out, or what I would see in the actual incident itself that when I when I sat down from inside that window, I want you to know that the words do not fear traveled through my body like vibration, like like a hiss, a telepathic I don't know, yeah, but I kept hearing over and over, do not fear, do not fear?

1:25:55 Speaker 1: Uh, do not fear?

1:25:57 Speaker 3: And was it a good vibe or bad? As far as yours?

1:26:03 Speaker 1: It was control. It was complete. It was as if you know, when somebody says something, you'll say, uh what or huh. There's none of that, there's no misinterpretation of someone speaking to you know exactly what's being said.

1:26:17 Speaker 3: Was there was there sort of a sense of their intention as positive or negative?

1:26:22 Speaker 1: Or was it assuring? Assuring? I think no matter what you see visually, do not fear. And that's what we seem to have the hardest problem with, is what we're seeing visually.

1:26:36 Speaker 3: If you had kind of a best guest, do you think they had positive intentions or negative?

1:26:40 Speaker 1: Or I think they had positive. But they fulfill their mission, whatever that mission is, whether it's to obtain DNA material or what have you, or some kind of a programming or I don't know, any whatever they want to do, they're going to.

1:26:54 Speaker 3: Do outside of like the obvious, which is you experienced this kind of crazy paranormals ruption in your life, did this kind of was this an inflection point or did it change your life in a dramatic way? After how so.

1:27:09 Speaker 1: I had to find out everything about archaeology and pyramids hmm.

1:27:13 Speaker 3: And so that was just something that it almost felt like it was installed inside of you or downloaded.

1:27:19 Speaker 1: Yes, and why still today?

1:27:22 Speaker 3: Why do you think you became so interested in that?

1:27:24 Speaker 1: I have no idea.

1:27:25 Speaker 3: Do you know that the Air Force paid for this movie called Stargate? Have you ever seen this movie?

1:27:30 Speaker 1: Subsolutely?

1:27:31 Speaker 3: So you know there's a stargate in the pyramid. It's sort of this portal, this like time travel machine. Do you think that might be related to you know why you're so interested in pyramids?

1:27:45 Speaker 1: I think they were power generators and whatever they generated power to was worldwide, and I think it was at a time in which we have been completely blacked.

1:27:55 Speaker 3: Out from Have you heard of Christopher Dunn?

1:27:57 Speaker 1: I have, yes, an engineer.

1:28:00 Speaker 3: What do you think of his theory?

1:28:01 Speaker 1: I think his theory is absolutely correct. Robert Shock and I think absolutely I think they're the erosion marks on that gray sphinx and everything else around it.

1:28:12 Speaker 3: Can you can you recapitulate or can you retell Christopher dunn theory just for the audience?

1:28:18 Speaker 1: Well, the the archaeological tools in which was used to create uh and and carve or cut this grantite or not any archaeological array of tools of copper and wooden chisels today in some form of of advanced mathematics was used in order to create what they did, and even just the placement of the pyramid great pyramid itself. I mean, the entire plateau is the only place that can support that weight. And the entire plateau was built before the pyramids were placed on top of it. So who hand that technology and what was used to who?

1:29:00 Speaker 1: Who mandated that? What? Pharaoh woke up one morning after his dates and whatever else he ate and said, let's build that plateau so it can hold how many millions of pounds of this thing weigh? I have no idea right now, but I mean seven hundred and fifty feet from edged it from corner to corner, and fourgner and thirty two feet high? Is that right? On thirteen acres? I mean, how can that be?

1:29:27 Speaker 3: Do you think the beings you experienced are aliens? Or do you think they're humans? Or what exactly did the alien? What exactly did the entities you encountered look like?

1:29:38 Speaker 1: Oh, they looked like grays. They looked like the small grays. But the one behind them, I guess you would classify him as a tall gray. On Whitley Strieber's book Communion, of course, the first time I saw that picture, I frozen my I froze in my stride, and I had to have that book and Barnes and Noble wherever it was at the time when it came out. Literally before I opened the first to the first page, I literally just sat and stared at that picture for many hours before I ever even read his book.

1:30:11 Speaker 3: Do you think that there there's actually a line from Communion by Whitley Streeberry where it's like this weird joke, you know. Actually I think he or his wife comments on how ugly the aliens are, and the alien turns back and he goes, someday, soon, my dear, you'll look like us. So it's this implication that actually, we're kind of turning into these beings.

1:30:31 Speaker 1: In ten thousand years, will we have these smaller appendages, our little fingers, our little toes. How will our bodies be at that particular point in time, you know? How will our diets change? How will light change? How will radiation that affects our atmosphere today, how will it change in the future? How will it change us completely as we become a space faring civilization and we will be and you know whatever, whenever that could take place, we will do that? How will that change without the gravity that we undergo today and the things in which we live with today, you know, radio waves, five G. Everything has an effect on you.

1:31:10 Speaker 3: So you think these beings could be us from the future.

1:31:14 Speaker 1: No, I don't think they are. I don't think we're going to be that. I don't think we're that lucky.

1:31:18 Speaker 3: So what do you think they are? Do you think they're from another dimension?

1:31:21 Speaker 1: Or they could be? I mean, the technology is wide open. Anything you can imagine probably is.

1:31:27 Speaker 3: What was the craft like? So you're in the inside of this thing? What did it look like?

1:31:33 Speaker 1: A beehive?

1:31:35 Speaker 3: Beehive?

1:31:35 Speaker 1: Yeah?

1:31:36 Speaker 3: How so?

1:31:37 Speaker 1: Well there were from my looking around as I did in that playground, like I always try to take a mental picture or something, there were just multi levels with all these small grays everywhere, going to and fro and doing whatever they were doing. I just got to look for a moment and I was following one. Even the floor and the boards around the bottom of the floor

1:32:05 Speaker 1: had energy. Was everything emanated power in some way? The walls was there a humming association, not that I can remember. And it almost.

1:32:18 Speaker 3: Felt like the tall gray was maybe in charge of these smaller grays.

1:32:21 Speaker 1: Absolutely in that room. Another thing too, I was not on a table. I was, from my memory, I was on some type of a I was like wrapped in a triangular kind of beam or something that was body length about four foot in the air, and as like a strange light would not a strange light. It's even harder to describe, but it was as if I was in ser in something that was some type of a force field or some kind of a holding field that they could move you around in like a gurney without wheels, a table without a back or wheels or legs attached to it.

1:33:15 Speaker 1: And I felt as if you know, they when they reached in or when he lifted my arm up, lifted me up right here on my wrist, you know, it exited that that pyramidal field or whatever it was above me, and it was in his atmosphere at that time.

1:33:36 Speaker 1: In my in hypnosis, That's what I saw. The other thing was, this is most interesting. I'm taken to a room. When I first get there, I'm taken into this room, if you can call it a room. Everything's generated, everything's powered. There's power on every wall, every nook and cranny where no buttons or or or place of the insert of tape or anything like that. But the whole place is like is powered. And there were all these old things like a sewing machine table with a Singer sewing machine, those old fifty style lamps that went from the floor to the ceiling and had bulbs sticking off of them out that TV and a cabinet.

1:34:23 Speaker 3: It was like an antique shop ye for future.

1:34:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, like a museum. And this is an old wooden box radio. And I found that to be so cool because I ended up buying a us r KO radio and a mahogany cabinet that worked with twos from a rancher there in South Dakota that I wish I'd never had wooden knobs and everything on and worked beautifully. And uh that from that from when I saw that I had to have one of these dawn radios. I don't know why. And this one was much nicer than what I saw, but iron a steam iron standing. I drew pictures of it, the best of my recollection of everything.

1:35:07 Speaker 1: And then I was told in the in the very back of the room there was a round window, but it looked like it looked like it was a It was a round window with a slice taken out of it, like a pie without with a slice removed from it. And I was told, like, I go look out that window, but I was too afraid to walk over there and look out of it. For some reason, I didn't. I don't know why, but I mean, but I felt at ease, but I still didn't want to know or didn't want to see out that window. Something really bothered me and about looking out that window.

1:35:37 Speaker 1: And I was told that twice that I could go look out the window, and I didn't. So then I was told to follow and to follow, and I did. I followed a small gray in front of me, little legs and like a little great type like spandex suit or something on. I guess.

1:36:03 Speaker 1: I mean, these these things are so foreign to you. This this whole visual concept is so foreign to It's very hard to find words for a lot of it, even after forty four years, and it's just difficult. And I went, I followed him, went turned left in this small little opening area and went into this room where it was just fogged. And then that's where my memories end. But that's where the thing was done to my wrist. And then I don't know from that point on that seemed to be right around the end of it.

1:36:36 Speaker 3: Did it feel like a dream like state or did it feel physical in this hypnotic regression?

1:36:41 Speaker 1: Oh no, it felt physical real. The first time I was hypnotized, which was Robert Upton, Bob Upton, uh I had. I had a pretty bad time because I never I'm not a person ever thinking that I could be hypnotized to start with. I'm pretty strong willed, and I feel as if I'm common sensed also, and I just thought, oh, hypnosis is for someone else, It's just not for me. But Robert wanted me to try it, so I said okay. And the funny thing because we had been through a hurricane just prior to that down in Brunswick, Georgia, and I had some roof damage and deck damage on the back of my home and they were reroofing my house that day.

1:37:25 Speaker 1: Now, what a day to be hypnotized on by this guy who he came up from Jacksonville, sixty seven miles south of me, and he's like the lead

1:37:42 Speaker 1: hypnotic regression person form Moufon at the time. I don't know if he still is, but he has my admiration. I couldn't do his job.

1:37:50 Speaker 3: And he didn't get any sort of weird sense from him that he had ulterior motives.

1:37:55 Speaker 1: No now, Now, Robert Hasting had given him a set of questions that he was going to ask me, and he told me that, and I was fine with that. They were reroofing my home. So you'd imagine there's like fifteen people on my roof and my home has got a really steep roof. I couldn't do it. I can't climb up there anymore. But so they're literally peeling off plywood and replacing plywood, and nailers and everything else, things being tossed run up there. I never heard a single a single air gun going off during that hypnosis session.

1:38:29 Speaker 1: That's why I knew I was hypnotized. I never heard any of that. But he took me down to a level. He had a way of doing it that evidently worked. But once I did and I confronted what I saw,

1:38:48 Speaker 1: it really upset me a great deal. Literally come in to face to face and smelling that smell again, hearing those words again. Maybe I got that deep into it and I never thought of it. I could. I don't know if if a person's mind has changed, as we had said earlier. I don't know if that's what happens.

1:39:09 Speaker 3: But was it cathartic at all? Or was it just purely painful?

1:39:16 Speaker 1: It got painful, it really did. I mean when when when I visualized and saw what was being done in my wrist, in the way in which it was being done, it just I mean, he could have cut my whole arm off. I wouldn't known the difference. I couldn't. There's nothing I could do to stop it, you know, I mean, it could have been the end of my life right there. And that's how that's how.

1:39:36 Speaker 3: Did you know implants? As far as the puncture, well.

1:39:38 Speaker 1: I have no idea. And those are on the other side of my body anyway, or those pock marks.

1:39:43 Speaker 3: But do you still have the marks at all?

1:39:47 Speaker 1: Yeah?

1:39:48 Speaker 3: Can I see him?

1:39:48 Speaker 1: Sure? Right there? Yes, right there that he sucks on. Wow. Wow, Wow, I see it. Wow.

1:40:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, those look I mean just like perfectly vertically aligned.

1:40:07 Speaker 1: Well I had a doctor who's no longer with this.

1:40:10 Speaker 3: But like so clearly not like a spider, but like too way too big for that, Like you know, yeah, what would usually like like a couple of centimeters now maybe a centimeter each.

1:40:21 Speaker 1: Doctor Mark Gole, he did I had back surgery years ago and he did that, and we had talked, we had talked. He was a really great guy. Unfortunately COVID took him way too young, as it did many many people. And we were sitting in my backyard one night and after he had looked at this and he said, you know, he said, I'm gonna be honest with you, Mario, because I wanted to get something from him recorded, you know, and I didn't have that chance to the last time I saw him was probably twenty nineteen, and he had some family issues and had to go up north and where he got COVID, and he died and his kids went to school with my kids at Frederick Academy on St. Simon's Island in Georgia.

1:41:02 Speaker 1: But he said, you know, what perplexed him was that there was no known life saving event that he could think of, even including up to a car accident, that anything would be put in there or down here to either put in something or take out something. He said, in they're exactly the same depth, and this in the same size, you know, top the bottom, he says, So I find that really odd. You know because I told him the whole incident what happened, and he just he's like, Holy.

1:41:37 Speaker 3: Car indicates a technology or paradigm well of our medical understand.

1:41:43 Speaker 1: And if you look at this up close under a microscope which has been done from or magnifying scope, it has a little dimple right right on the top of it, like like you drop water and you know, drop a rock in water and he goes boop bloop. That little dimple is right in the middle of both of them.

1:41:59 Speaker 3: Yep.

1:42:00 Speaker 1: That is really that is really strange. So I don't know when these happened. I honestly don't. I don't remember healing from them. I didn't say it happened during my incident in seventy seven. I don't know where they came from.

1:42:13 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you have a mission associated with this interest in pyramids where it's like, you know, at the time at which you're you leave this earth, you want to accomplish something related to the pyramids.

1:42:28 Speaker 1: Man, that's a great question. Yes, I would like to know the answers. I would like to see those tools, you know, as as Christopher Dunn says, I would like to see those tools. And finally, the admission that they had tools far greater than what we ever have imagined. And I think just like melting rock in South America as so I can say human and so many other facilities where these rocks are you know, thirteen sods in just an inch and a half and stuck in a hole. It's two feet deep all the way through the entire rock.

1:43:05 Speaker 1: How do you do that without softening that stone?

1:43:07 Speaker 3: Do you feel like end the site? Do you feel like these sites globally? I feel like this is what Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, I love that guy man, Robert Shock, all these guys are kind of getting into this idea that maybe a lot of this ancient geological you know, architecture, megalithic architecture that's precociously astronomically aligned in a way that we don't even understand today, and it lines up with you know, Ice age or pre ice age certainly, you know kind of vernal equinox. Absolutely, and so do you think that a lot of this architecture was these were maybe kind of celestial ascent chambers that were starts into another world.

1:43:45 Speaker 3: Sure, and maybe things were getting kind of gnarly or cataclysmic and they were portals to elsewhere elsewhere.

1:43:52 Speaker 1: Totally believe that.

1:43:53 Speaker 3: Have you ever seen the Netflix show Dark by any chance.

1:43:56 Speaker 1: I've seen some of it, I believe.

1:43:58 Speaker 3: So it involves seeing people around nuclear bases and a secret time travel program.

1:44:04 Speaker 1: Oh I got to see that.

1:44:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, you should check it out because I.

1:44:07 Speaker 1: Wish they'd call me. I'd like to know.

1:44:09 Speaker 3: You know, you know, Lawrence Lawrence Bell is about Bell Aircraft. So they broke the sound barrier in nineteen forty seven x fifteen Chuck Jeger exactly. And so there's an article in nineteen fifty six where they're saying we're going to beat gravity and it's right around the bend. And Lawrence Bell's quote from this article is, we are already working with nuclear nuclear fuels to cancel out gravity. And so you got to think if if time travel is possible at any point in the future, it's probably always been possible, right, And so where would we discover some sort of time travel program.

1:44:44 Speaker 3: It would probably be co located with nuclear programs, absolutely so, and then how would you affect timelines? You might do it with, you know, particular people who represent kind of nodes or whatever who get interested in things like pyramids after you know their encounters and so do you think that you know, that's a possible explanation that maybe a future time travel program represents an overlay over all of these nuclear sites in a way that somehow, you know, might profoundly shift humanity and might also keep us alive, because if you think about where is the center of the apocalypse, it's these nuclear sites.

1:45:20 Speaker 3: I mean, where what's going to you know, dictate the end of the world or not. You know, it's going to be these sites, I have no ideas, are crazy speculation, but so gravity is is very related with time and general relativity. So you know, Lawrence Bell is right, and they're kind of using nuclear fuels to cancel out gravity. Maybe you're using nuclear fuels to mess with time too.

1:45:42 Speaker 1: It just makes you wonder how much technology that has been buried somehow or another has been removed from our everyday conscious thought, you know, and why was that removed? Do we get so dangerous to ourselves? I mean, unfortunately, I wish we weren't so warlike because you don't believe something that I believe in, We're supposed to go to war over that. I just I just I just dislike that so much, you know, and religion, you know, I don't want to get into that. But what you believe is fine with me, Well, you believe is fine with me.

1:46:20 Speaker 1: What I believe is fine with me? And why can't it just be that?

1:46:24 Speaker 3: Do you think that? Yeah?

1:46:26 Speaker 1: No, no, no, I do think that this technology that we're speaking of, even though we don't know it truly exists, it points to its existence in some way. And one day I think we will find the magic key somewhere. There's a craft, if it hasn't already been discovered, that's sitting in a cave somewhere, or under the ocean somewhere, under a ledge somewhere, or maybe even circling the planet invisible we can't see we're going to run into one day. I don't know.

1:46:53 Speaker 3: Well, maybe it'll happen, or maybe.

1:46:55 Speaker 1: It'll happen sooner or later. And I just hope, I honestly do. And I get asked this all the time, Well you think they're going to come and defeat us and take us over? And my answer is always the same. Look, if any civilization that's out there comes here within their own lifetime and leaves and goes back in their same lifetime. That's ten thousand light years advanced to us. That's what Carl Sagan said that bar none, that's just ten thousand light years advanced to us. So think about that. We're like the ants in an ant bed and they're standing in there looking at us.

1:47:30 Speaker 1: You know, I often think about the reverse visualization that night when I was flipping the facility lights at that craft, whatever it was at the time. To me, what would I have thought in my mind had I been up there looking down at this rectangular shape sight, somebody's turning off and on the lights real quick in succession. Why would I flash back? Or wait a minute, how does that person down there see us up here? Why would they know that we're not supposed to be here or we're just up here observing.

1:48:01 Speaker 1: How will they know that? Do we find out who this guy is or a person is I should say, or what I don't know? I've done that reverse thing a couple of times to try to give answers to myself, which always end up, you know, with a zero back where I started. But I do want to say that where New Lake Reservoir Dam was, it's a Pythagorean triangle. From November one, November five, over to New Lake Reservoir and back to November one control. I believe based on that position of New Liak Reservoir dam, that's where that craft was.

1:48:39 Speaker 1: It was over that body of water when I saw it. Why, I don't know, but there's there's always some type of there's a lot of sightings over water, yes, and the deepest part of that reservoir I think is only like forty feet. I could be wrong. It's under reconstruction right now because I've been talking about it a lot for the last couple of years. I don't know if that's done anything. But the people in Nuwell are really good and i'd while we were there h doing that filming, there were a couple of individuals.

1:49:09 Speaker 1: We're out on Ormond Road, that's the road that November five is on into dirt road still today, and there's a golf course off to the left side of it. When you when you turn out a Newell on the Ormond Road in that day, you know, the town's so small that when we arrived there early in the morning the film, all these people started seeing us, so they you know, news travels fast to there, and they're great people. I've always I've always had a lot of respect for those folks. And great cooks too, great Western Plains cooks.

1:49:38 Speaker 1: Man, they could cook some good food. But uh, you would not believe the parade we had going up and down ormand Road watching this film. And it was the strangest thing because I had not been back to November five since that night, and the producer did not want to go directly in front of November five sight itself because there's now a like a small cattle processing facility on it built on it because it's built on the bedrock. And when they detonated and collapsed the silos in and returned it, they left the fencing and the rock base there.

1:50:13 Speaker 1: So these ranchers used to store hey on or do something on their cattle. The fencing is all still there. We could have used another site, but instead they went about one hundred and fifty yards to the east of the site, and we were looking into a plane field. You know, while I'm holding up my drawings and the drones over my shoulder taking pictures up. I just felt that not very good. But when I got out of that vehicle and walked toward that site, man, that feeling came over me. I went to my knees and hypnosis.

1:50:49 Speaker 1: When Robert Upson finished that hypnosis, something was wrong with me. And about four days later I went to my monologist. Uh, and I was in aphib and uh so I had to go in the next day because my heart was out of rhythm. Never had any heart problems whatsoever ever in my life. I've always been an athlete. And of course they put the patches on and shot me and recinked me. I guess and uh, about a week went by and I started thinking about this thing over and over again. Boom, I went right back in the aphib.

1:51:27 Speaker 1: So I had to go back and do it again. And uh then they got me on medication. So I have to take medication, you know. And anytime you go in aphib, I guess they they put you on a blood dinner.

1:51:38 Speaker 3: Do you regret having done the hypnotic.

1:51:40 Speaker 1: Regrets now because it really gave me some insight, you know, and then it made it a lot easier when I when I uh did the session just last year or year before last with Yvonne Smith in California.

1:51:53 Speaker 3: Do you ever experience weird electromagnetic effects with your body or like what sort of stuff.

1:51:59 Speaker 1: Like a light going on, offer something when I walk in a room, a fluorescent light, fluorescent light. Yeah, I've got a little a little light fixture. It's named Honda.

1:52:07 Speaker 3: Phone's dying quickly, anything like that.

1:52:09 Speaker 1: No, I have had some other strange things go on, though, Robert Haysin's I talked about that, with emails vanishing everywhere, you know, off the cloud and everywhere else, just wipe clean. I've had that happen, as is he. But yeah, I've had surbil incidents where that has really bothered me. Then the night of December seventeenth, twenty seventeen, my son was in his room. He was he was home from from working. He was working, he was living in Florida. Came home to visit, and it was right at four eleven AM.

1:52:48 Speaker 1: And that's also another thing about waking up at certain times of the night. One eleven, three point thirty three, four eleven. It's just it's just strange how that, how that happens. But I pay attention to it. And I have a room in the back of the house because I worked twelve hour shifts, so it rotated, so sometimes i'd have to, you know, sleep during the day, you know, till three pm get up to go in for a six pm to six am shift. You know, I said it was rotating, so I had to have it darkened out so you could sleep.

1:53:21 Speaker 1: You just guy just can't sleep in sunlight. I don't know anybody they can. But uh. Anyway, I was, I was there sleeping and had to get up for work, and all of a sudden I opened my eyes and I had this. I'm standing at the foot of my bed. I have I have never been a person to sleep walk ever in my life that I know, I know ever. And I'm standing at the foot of my bed, holding onto my bed frame with my right hand, and directly in front of me, there's about a four and a half or a five foot hold diameter in the north wall of my bedroom, and on that in that circle, that vanished immediately, like sparks flew off either side of it.

1:54:03 Speaker 1: It's like, what the anyway, as soon as that, as soon as that flashed out or went away, all the lights in my house started flickering, just all over the house. And then these strange alarms started. I started hearing them, and my son popped through my door and he goes dad, what the hell is going He goes, what's going on? I said, I don't know, son. He goes, what's those alarms? And I said, I don't know. I grabbed my pistols. I didn't know why I was going to clear my house, you know, and uh, which I did.

1:54:35 Speaker 1: I couldn't explain what I just saw and hadn't even verbally said anything about it yet. And it was just right in front of me. Uh. And mind you, just two dressers that were partially that had a that were partially gone or in that dark circle that I saw. And so I cleared my house and the and I go into the kitchen area and all the lights were just like just barely on, like they're just like the candle light all throughout the house. And the stove, the oven, the microwave, and the refrigerator. They have low voltage alarms on them, which I never knew.

1:55:15 Speaker 1: That's what the alarms were. They were all going off. So everything seemed to be normal other than the fact the lights were on. I tried flipping on lights and they wouldn't come on. They just come on barely and just flicker for a minute. I just turned it back off, you know. But the light over the stove. It was doing that. Every light, every electrical component in my home was affected. Everything, doorbells is some everything. So I went back to talk to my son. I said, Jake, I said, what the heck was that?

1:55:43 Speaker 1: Man? He goes, I don't know, Dad, it's weird. It's really weird. You can call him and talk to him about it. So I said, well, I'll call George Power in the morning when I get up, you know. So I just put everything down. I laid back down and just thinking, you know, what was that? And about eight o'clock, my son pops through my door and goes. He knocks first, he says, hey, Dad, he goes, George Power's here. I said what he said, Yeah, Georgia Power's in the front yard. And I live on an acre. So to my to the street from my front porch is about two hundred feet and uh so I got dressed and I hobbled out there, and these guys are out there working on the where the power distribution comes into my home and it's all underground.

1:56:28 Speaker 1: My home was built in ninety seven. And uh so I found the supervisor. I said, I said hey, I said, hoy, you doing sir, I said, I told him my name. He goes, it's your house and I said, yes, sir. He just looked at me and uh, I said, wow is the I said, what happened? He goes, he just looked at me and he said, uh, well he lost he lost power, lost the leg of power. I said, dang, that does that mess up the whole neighborhood. He goes, he looked at me and he says no. He says, just your house. I said, what do you mean.

1:57:01 Speaker 1: He goes, well, you let up our board downtown like the fourth of July out here and I said, well, how did I do that? We were all asleep? He said, I don't know. He said, but we're going to have to replace this leg so you have power in your home. He said, come on, I'll show you something. They had already taken this big dolly and they had like transformer equipment. I've got pictures of it, he called Robert Hastings. First thing, they take this transformer thing on a dolly, take it to the back where my meter is, and they jumper into that meter box so to establish power or a what do you call it?

1:57:41 Speaker 1: To refine the power going in my home Instead Instead of just two legs, it gives it a third leg. Somehow it converts it, and I don't know how that works, but I got pictures of it, and he said, you'll be fine too. We can come out and replace that wire. And he took them about two days, three days, and they were back and they did it. But uh, I just kept questioning what I had seen and what had happened and why that happened, and ours was the only house affected. A couple of weeks later, one of our neighbor's kids come by to my son used to play with.

1:58:16 Speaker 1: He stopped his truck. He's got an F one fifty. He says, hey, mister Woods, and he's been in my backyard. These kids had had parties. They all shot bows and arrows together, bb guns, name it. You know, we do all that stuff, ride motorcycles. He goes, hey, mister Woods. He said, I was cutting my grass and he waved at me, and I stopped, and I stopped and he stopped and he goes, hey, what was going on there last week or so when all those lights were in your backyard? And I said, what are you talking about?

1:58:43 Speaker 1: He just he didn't hesitated for a second. He goes, he goes, your backyard was lit up like a Hollywood set or something. He said, like those great big lights they say, up in the air. And he says, the whole backyard was lit up. I said, what do you mean, man? He said, yeah, o'clock in the morning. He was leaving for work. That's how he saw that. And I said, well, you know, I've only got two spotlights right there in the corner of that room outside And I said, uh, and on the corner of the back and the lights over the on the rear patio.

1:59:14 Speaker 1: You know. He goes, I don't know, but it was lit up like you wouldn't believe. And I just I just kept it to myself. I said, man, what did happen? Really? So what would they what interest could they possibly they would have in you know, in a sixty five year old manner or whatever age I was at that time, What could they possibly want? I mean, what do you think? I have no idea, I honestly don't have a clue.

1:59:43 Speaker 3: What do you think? What do you hope the world gets from your testimony?

1:59:48 Speaker 1: Understanding perhaps or the possibility of uh perhaps not to fear as much and not to think that they're here to defeat us because they were we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. They had done it long ago.

2:00:10 Speaker 3: Anyhow do you think they're hybridizing themselves with us?

2:00:14 Speaker 1: Could very well be depends upon their maybe their situation on their own planet. Maybe they're overcrowded perhaps, or there something's dying there, or progression through space, you know, you can't always get back to the starting point, you know, maybe they have to occupy worlds along the way in their great expansion.

2:00:35 Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like even on Ellsworth that it was kind of an open secret that, you know, a lot of people had had some interesting experiences before you. Mario, do you think you know? I was talking with Robert Hastings, and you know, he was noting that he had one hundred and sixty seven ICPM security personnel, radar operators, guys on basis like yourself who've experienced crafts. And then I remember I asked him, I was like, you know, Robert, what percentage of these people have had close encounters of the third kind where they've actually met beings?

2:01:05 Speaker 3: And he said something like seven or eight. But then he said, I didn't ask anybody. Those are the people that volunteered. And I think about the culture of secrecy and humility when it comes to working at you know, nuclear bases. If you have seven or eight people who you're just incidentally finding out are having, you know, close encounters of the third kind and actually seeing beings, it's probably over one hundred. It's of the one hundred and seventy, it's probably you know, a massive you know.

2:01:31 Speaker 1: And never alone, always with a partner. You're never alone in any nuclear facility. It's a two man rule that has to be two of you at all times.

2:01:41 Speaker 3: Are there other cases like yours that you've found out about where the partner sort of seems to disappear or go miss.

2:01:47 Speaker 1: In Terry Lovelace in his partner, Toby.

2:01:51 Speaker 3: Because Terry's still around, right, oh yeah, yeah, he's a great guy, but Toby's gone.

2:01:55 Speaker 1: Toby's gone. Terry told me that he literally he never fully recovered out there their incident. He was not on duty. They were simply on a camping trip.

2:02:04 Speaker 3: And is Toby like in some facility, mental health facility, or is he just like no no trace of him. Terry can't even find him.

2:02:12 Speaker 1: No, no, no, he was available. And of course the VA they were given him, you know whatever, pills or whatever to help his anxiety. And from my understanding, he had a really bad drinking problem from that period of time and some people, I guess that's the way it affects, and it's really quite sad. And he was a real light skinned black guy also, and we talk about that correlation between us and our partners. And it happened the same year also in that movie Close Encounters the Third Kind came out.

2:02:47 Speaker 1: I went to see it in Rapid City at the theater you know on Main Street still there today or the building is. I'm not sure if the theater is or not, but I think it is. And that part where Roy Neary is crossing the railroad tracks and he's looking at the map, got the flashlight in his mouth and that light pops on. If you'll notice, during that period of time, his body it was as if he was being whatever he was hearing or feeling was talking to him or programming him on the inside. He's literally he's doing some kind of a weird i should say, receiving of whatever is giving him.

2:03:36 Speaker 1: And you can see it and he portrays it very well, and it really made me think a lot because when I saw that movie, it is as if what's going on in the missile field right now, not just to me, but to these craft are out there, there's cattle mutilations going on. Lendham Moldenhouse in the area. I tried contacting her in like twenty might have been before that, but she got my email in or twenty fourteen. I'd sent something to her, and she worked at a station in Denver, Colorado, was you know, like I don't know if she was in what kind of news she did, but she was investigating cattle relations all throughout the northwest where we were, and of course we were told not to speak to any media people whatsoever.

2:04:18 Speaker 1: But the point is that when he underwent what he did under that light before that craft let him go, it seemed to put something in his mind which really struck me. Before it stopped, you know, and moved. I had to literally get up out of my seat and I ran out and sat on the curb on main Street in Rapid City because what I just saw felt as if it was a direct replay of what I just went through, only a little bit different, where you know, the craft was above him and these little guys came up to the side of our vehicle.

2:04:55 Speaker 1: Just that, just like that, and it's really hard to deal with.

2:05:01 Speaker 3: We often it feels like the earbones are messed with the bones dealing with balance and orientation, and then this is an interesting kind of connection around them checking your teeth. My buddy made a documentary on this guy, Andre Pooharich. Pooharich helped start the mk ultrip program. So it's like CIA lobbying guy was is he? I think he was read something about a guy with that name. I'm pretty sure I did. Yeah, he's either he's like, yeah, Eastern European or Russian. Yeah, maybe maybe Yugoslavian.

2:05:34 Speaker 3: And yeah, he's at Northwestern and he had you know, the Roundtable Institute at Gain where they were sort of summoning stuff. And then he was also he had this actually school of space children in upstate New York where he was you know, studying all sorts of telepathy and download channeling. Actually the book Star Trek came. He had this one channel er named Phyllis Schaeffer and she wrote a book called The Only Planet Choice that was channeled and she was in communication with the nine quote unquote, which is this council of you know, possible et beings.

2:06:07 Speaker 3: They were talking about the earth as a bottleneck of consciousness. We have to get past this bottleneck in order to ascend whatever fascinating stuff. But interestingly, Pooharich found this guy who was sort of schizophrenic and he was hearing voices in his head, but it almost sounded like the voices he was hearing were similar to like what somebody would describe in an alien telepathy experience where they were getting he was getting kind of immediate downloads. And Pooharts was studying him and they realized he was a construction worker and he was working with you know, sawing metals or whatever, and so they found these fine you know metals in his teeth and that somehow and Pooharj's belief was that extremely low frequency radio waves were actually responsible for thought in a way that's upstream or connected with the acoustical waves that represent our normal cognition.

2:07:04 Speaker 1: Wow.

2:07:04 Speaker 3: And so maybe they were checking your teeth either because they were worried that you were already receiving downloads or like in touch prior to this experience, or because they thought the implant where they would communicate with you on a go forward basis might be there.

2:07:21 Speaker 1: Wow, I've never even thought of it that way. I some people said they were looking at you maybe for radioattic contamination or something like that.

2:07:31 Speaker 3: You might be right.

2:07:32 Speaker 1: I mean that really does make sense, man, I mean you got to look at it all. You can't you can't discount anything because you're dealing with the technology that don't sit on couches. You know that that can speak full volumes through your cellular work in your body. Yeah, they don't need to communicate. I mean they have not. That's something that's their brain is so far past that. Yeah, they don't have to speak words to you, and their language is probably where we say an umlan Like there's none of that in that.

2:08:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, they have in those conversation. It's direct rude access and you never ever will forget that feeling and that sound. Ever.

2:08:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like we have this meme library that was like is installed or something you look at like Descartes demon like. Maybe that's actually more true than where the Cartesian three D time bound plane is sort of controlled at least as far as the veneer that we see and the shade the shades of that we're seeing shadow of play of something higher, and that's something higher might community be able to communicate on a much more direct level level and also be able to shade or you know, in Plato you have like you know, it's like, don't trust your senses, right right, you have to contemplate virtue and you can ascend out of the lower world or whatever.

2:08:58 Speaker 3: There's much more and yeah, and and you forget your primordial self. And maybe in experiences like this you sort of, you know, you get back in touch with it. But maybe maybe some of these beings are Yeah, you know. I was at help put off his house not too long ago, and on his bookshelf he had this book called Daemonic Reality, and it was like, you know, like I don't know. I got to read the book, but it feels like the implication is like our low level reality is kind of controlled by some sort of you know, gnostic traditions.

2:09:29 Speaker 3: You might call it like a demi urge. Sure, where we're not seeing you know, ultimate reality.

2:09:36 Speaker 1: I think in Lou's book, I found the part where he talks about some of his superiors where they had this demonic uh direction, thinking these things were.

2:09:49 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's called the Collins Elite.

2:09:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, you know, versus where lou was and his thinking, which I agree with one hundred percent. I've been to that several times. Well, you know, these are just demons. These are just angels and demons, you know, all right, Well, what's your definition definition of an angel? In my book? I mean, I would just look at somebody that says that. You know, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. You know, I'm serious. And I've seen something in my time too, after our mother passed away, and that really an apparition, I'll just say.

2:10:27 Speaker 1: And it was my mother's apparition, and my brothers both saw it, and and that established me. You know, that night, I said, and we all talked about it, our mama was standing in that kitchen in a lightning storm. Her figure was there, not her face, but her figure was there. And at two o'clock in the morning on a thunderstorm night in Tampa, Florida, a couple of days after she died. And that's the truth. But I totally agree with what you what you're just saying there, because I think that I always associated to when you're in your mother's womb and your and your dad or your mom or your one of your aunts been down, or your brother's future brother or sister leans down and starts talking to you, and you're in your mother's womb.

2:11:14 Speaker 1: You know, baby hears that? That to me

2:11:20 Speaker 1: directly related to what I kept hearing do not Fear that. I recognized it, And the accent on that voice sounded as if something off of what was that Hogwarts or what or what do you call it? Yeah, Harry Potter, when that snake is talking to him like that, that's the way those works, That's the way those words roll you like. I can't even do it, do not fear, do not fear and elongated out, not just those words, how short I will and do not fear? And I still can't do it right. But it gets to every part of you in description, it gets to every party.

2:12:09 Speaker 1: You just feel it radiate through you.

2:12:12 Speaker 3: And before joining Ellsworth Air Force Base, what was kind of your motivation? Why'd you get into this?

2:12:18 Speaker 1: Honestly, I should have probably gone in the navy. My father was a merchant seaman and he sailed with Texaco, sailed all of his life, seeing USOS. He was in an car accident in seventy three and lost his life. And I just turned seventeen years old when that happened, So it literally changed the entire configuration of my family and my thoughts prior to I wanted to go to the Maritime Institute. I think it was in some part of Connecticut. I could be mistaken, and I wanted to become a captain. I didn't want to be a chief engineer because I saw how dirty my dad would get, or I'd go down to an engine room of a ship that he was on at port and see him climbing up out of a cylinder of a of an engine.

2:13:04 Speaker 1: So you know, the size of these things are massive, and I always respected that a great deal. But for me, growing up in South Florida and a long beach and other places, I always had this aspiration for things that flew. So whenever the Cape was launching and that kind of thing, I always went outside, either to see him or go with a bunch of friends go to Cape pin Averl to, you know, to watch a rocket launch. And originally I didn't want to go. I wouldn't even think about security police. But uh, I'm colorblind.

2:13:34 Speaker 1: And after I had passed all the tests to work on rocket engines, because I thought NASA is my goal. Right. I was in the hallway at the AFIES station in Jacksonville, just a young guy, long hair down the here and this little staff s artist she came running up to me. She goes, mister Woods. She goes, we got to talk to you for a minute. And I said, what is it. You know, I was ready to go. I was going to go back home to Tampa.

2:13:59 Speaker 3: Uh.

2:14:00 Speaker 1: And she told me, she goes, h, I need you to talk to somebody, and I said, okay. So I went back with her in this office and there was this gentleman standing there and I think he was like a tech sergeant. He's six seven somewhere around there. And he goes, mister Woods, because I need you to look at some things. And he opens up this sample book like you would go pick out carpet, you know, all these different colors of carpet, but it was wiring. And he said, show me the purple and yellow intertwined wire.

2:14:29 Speaker 1: And I just looked, you know, and really I couldn't do it. And he let me do that two or three times, and he goes, that's why you can't wire a rocket engine. So it made perfect sense to me, So of course I did score good on my ass Baptists. So she asked me if i'd be interested in some other things, and I said, sure, let's have a look. So they had video tapes back then, and I looked at a couple of them, and then I saw these guys repelling out of a helicopter, you know, fully clothed, fully armed, you know, and came out on fast ropes.

2:15:01 Speaker 1: And I said, and they had berets on their head. And I said, that's what I want to do. So that's I ended up in security police. Wow, and loved it.

2:15:08 Speaker 3: So you want to be a rocket scientist, Well.

2:15:10 Speaker 1: I wanted to do engines. Rocket engines, yes, I have.

2:15:13 Speaker 3: That's a tough job.

2:15:15 Speaker 1: I used to always launch rockets growing up as a kid, did you Yeah, they were ninety eight cents for you know, these little rocket engines and those fuselages were all made out of like a paper towel rolls or something.

2:15:27 Speaker 3: What do you think sparked your early interest in rockets and space?

2:15:33 Speaker 1: I'm sure that what I saw in nineteen sixty one at d Queen Elementary School in Port Arthur, Texas had something to do with it.

2:15:41 Speaker 3: Where'd you see in nineteen sixty one?

2:15:43 Speaker 1: My mother was taking me to my first grade school, which was d Queen Elementary, and we were about the fifth or the seventh car back in line, and I'm on the passenger side, in the front seat, no seat belt. We didn't do that back then. My sister was in the back seat. Of course, my mother's driving, and she stopped short of the car in front of her and she says, look, Anthony, look at those flying saucers. When's the last time your mother ever said something like that to you. I mean, I'm just six years old, five and a half six years old, and I just couldn't even fathom what she said.

2:16:21 Speaker 1: And they were right over a church, just maybe twenty five to fifty feet in the air, and there were three of them. They were beautiful, prettiest craft have seen in my life. I can picture them in my mind right now. My sister and I talk about it all the time. And the thing that struck me was they were there long enough to where I kind of did a really strange scan looking around at people. Always kind of anything worth memorizes, and memorizing is worth looking around for a moment to take a quick mental picture of it.

2:16:49 Speaker 1: If that explains that. But we had a playground directly across from the school that the road was blocked off, and all the kids, everybody met out there before class time. Every eye and arm and hand and pointer finger was pointing in the air and then looking back to the left at the side of the school. We didn't have ac back then, so the windows were always open. There were people. It was like a four maybe five story building at the time. It's been since rebuilt, but anyway, all these people were pointing out the windows, and the grades went from kindergarten to twelfth grade there, so everybody and including teachers, were looking outside.

2:17:30 Speaker 1: And the strangest part about it it was over the directly over this church that sat right on the corner of the Queen Boulevard, and the schools here and the church was there, so they were just right here and we were right there next to it. And my mom she opens her door and steps out, and my sister I remember her saying, Mom, I'm scared. She says, it'll be okay, Honnie. They're not here to hurt you. That's what she said, and I grabbed her by the other hand. We were hanging there watching them, you know, and probably washing them for a good couple of minutes.

2:18:01 Speaker 1: And they were white silver Craft standard saucer configuration with a dome on top and a dome on the bottom, but they had these lights. It went around the outer rim of it, and they were all and they were all synchronized, and it was extremely fast. It was so much to take in as something you've never seen or it couldn't even know existed, but it felt so normal. It looked so normal, like somebody was checking in on us, if that's the word. And when they left, it was all at one time, straight up. If there would been clouds, they'd have punched holes through those clouds and they were just gone.

2:18:42 Speaker 1: It just literally just went from that big around to this big round and out of your sight. And the strangest part about that, everybody on that playground and in the school in school, nobody said a word about. Everybody went right back to what they were doing and never mentioned it all day long.

2:19:01 Speaker 3: Have you talked to any of the witnesses since since.

2:19:03 Speaker 1: No other than my sister, my mother since passed long ago, but uh uh part off for textas is a long time, a long time ago, but uh, I've never forgotten that. So it's really really something that's remarkable.

2:19:19 Speaker 3: Did you feel changed after that.

2:19:20 Speaker 1: At all or in some way? My sister and I talked about it. I just think the visualization of it and what he could possibly mean to a six year old definitely has in, you know, changing effects on what you've known forever. You know, not questioning God because I believe in God and uh and and and my Savior, but I I it just changes you. It it opens your eyes or your mind into what is or could be.

2:19:50 Speaker 3: And that might have gotten you interested in space and rock possibly that sort of thing.

2:19:54 Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, I don't think that. I don't think they come without a reason. I if I can just say that, I think I think they have great effects. And there seems to be this thing with the number three. What it could mean, I don't know. I know, I know Tesla had a real strange thing concerning the number three, and I've read a lot about him.

2:20:17 Speaker 3: Well, it's yeah, it's a sort of Jesus died at thirty three. Alexander the Great died at thirty three. See in freemasonry of thirty three levels.

2:20:25 Speaker 2: Why do you think, why do you think that it's such a it's such a like a life changing event, that seems pretty as a pretty bizarre that people won't especially sixty one one.

2:20:34 Speaker 3: You haven't seen that anything.

2:20:36 Speaker 1: In the sky. No ever, other than aircraft with propellers. There were no jets, you know at the time. I flew on a bunch of them, so even at a young age. But yeah, that's very true. I al, I always wonder if just being in the proximity of these things, if they're if they're pulsing or emanating some type of

2:21:00 Speaker 1: some type of not energy but a wave, or something that might be inducing to humankind. Uh, maybe in the thought of them or or or some some kind of idea. Uh. I don't ever, very few people that I've spoken with or call me have ever run from a craft or if they've seen one up close and personal. But it just amazes me that it just seems to be the normal thing when a person does see it, and then they later recollect and know it's something different now you know about it, like that feels so shocking. So you have you're two young kids.

2:21:46 Speaker 1: Uh, she had seen things before, she said, and uh, and she literally didn't elaborate on any of it, but she said she had seen things before in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina growing up as a as a kid. And of course my father was from Naca Hoon, Duras, and he's seen so many things I can't even in the in the jungles and in the ocean. And he used to always tell me of, you know, an entire crew of twenty nine or thirty men seeing something exit