UAP PD Part 2 (The Call Is Coming from The Sky)

0:00 Speaker 1: Hmmmmm.

0:36 Speaker 2: Do you, as a law enforcement officer, as a trained professional, do you believe there is such thing as a transformation, transforming shapeshifting, which that can turn into an animal? And I mean, do you believe that's in walks exist? You don't have to say yes or you don't want to. Yeah, So that's again community answer.

1:13 Speaker 3: I believe there's anything that can be out there. Anything could be out I.

1:18 Speaker 2: Listen and yeah, you don't have to put your eggs in one basket.

1:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's all kinds of stuff. We are not alone in this universe. We are not alone at all and anything. And you know, I listened to John and Stan and what they teach me of what's going on up in all of the uh Native reservations that there there are evil. There's evil in you know, our cultures that maybe they don't turn, you know, in animals, but there are evil and that.

1:53 Speaker 2: Is just one And I don't think it's I don't think it's super crazy to think that in a world where uh huh, you know.

2:09 Speaker 4: You've froze there for a second, we heard in a world and then it froze.

2:14 Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah, we can hear you now, Oh that's weird. Maybe a little network interruption to me, Uh that.

2:22 Speaker 3: Wanted us to talk about these things.

2:24 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, or we're getting hacked because I'm hardwired. But in a world where we're hurtling through space on a rock and you know, it's just the fact that we're having a conversation about this right now, is is is such a miracle right, like such the fact that this all exists, right, that matter all came together like this and this magic that we that we call reality. Uh, I've just learned to stop, uh making it black and white and allowing for you know, a little gray. And I think, like it's crazy to think about.

3:07 Speaker 2: You know, some people who won't believe in a god or uh some sort of creator, right, and they're they'll they'll go to church and they'll pray to angels and they're afraid of demons. And you know why, while they are while they are in the same breath saying that UFOs and aliens don't exist or we shouldn't engage with it, you know that they're they're saying angels and demons do exist. And by by definition, angels and demons and God if you want to say it is by definition a non human intelligence. So like in this world, I think that we should be like skin walk like evil is definitely real, It's tangible.

4:00 Speaker 2: Sometimes. I'm sure as investigators of things U as police officers, that you guys have walked into a crime or walked onto a crime scene or uh you know a what would be a crime scene uh by the time, you know whatever, and felt evil, like tangible evil. And to say that that it doesn't exist and that it doesn't attract and it you know, it's not there, that that's just being foolish.

4:32 Speaker 4: Okay, I've got.

4:35 Speaker 2: Becuse just just just humans in general can are are so like I think there are people out there that are have sold whatever it is there that that we call a soul. I think they've sold it. And I'm looking at you peer teel right, I'm looking at you Peter specifically, and and people like you because it like you just look at these people and you're like what is going on? Like what are you? And I'm sure you've been in rooms where maybe even interrogation rooms, where you know that you're sitting across from evil and when you come in that room that the life, the energy like they are energy vampires.

5:23 Speaker 2: But there's also the opposite, there's someone who just their presence brings a room up. So good and evil are definitely tangible.

5:35 Speaker 4: So so strapping because I have a bunch of things I want to say right now. First of all, I will tell you with evil exists?

5:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, I went on all right, I said, I I went off on a tangent. I'm sorry about That's okay.

5:51 Speaker 4: I have sat in the interrogation room and I have interrogated terrible, terrible people. I have had physical reactions where after I was done with the interview and the interrogation, I have literally gone into the next room and thrown up. It was that helpable that you could feel the lack of remorse, the callousness, what you would call evil. That was just it seemed almost otherworldly. And I have done interviews like that with murder suspects, with child abused, child molested suspects. So when you say do I think evil exists,

6:33 Speaker 4: there's not a doubt in my mind. You asked, do I think that something can change from one form to another? Let me ask you this. You ever see a caterpillar and a butterfly boy? They won't They're the same thing, but they're not. They went through a change. So if you say that it's impossible for something to change from one form to another, it happens.

6:58 Speaker 2: Happened, really a really good one.

7:01 Speaker 4: Now going into your Bible story. In the Bible, I'll be the first to event I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus, I believe in God, I believe in angels. I believe in demonic possession because I've seen things. I believe in ghosts. I also believe that. The Bible makes reference to things called behemoths and juggernuts, which are creatures that we don't understand, which could be things that are on this planet that we don't understand, lockness, monster, bigfoot, things like that. It never goes into to explain what those things are.

7:36 Speaker 4: It just makes reference to the fact that there are things on this planet.

7:39 Speaker 2: We don't It's and sorry to interject here, but discussion wise, it's kind of funny because the Bible talks about these things almost as if it's assuming the reader knows exactly what this is, because it doesn't give any explanation or exposition about what it is, so it's almost like who you know. The Bible whoever wrote it. It's like they're assuming that you're going to know exactly what this is. And that makes me think, like what if we've like are we just talking about the same thing with different names aliens and demons and fairies and you know, and then there's yeah, let.

8:21 Speaker 4: Me blow your mind once more. So now we've covered ghosts, we've covered demonic possession. They're all in the Bible. We have stories of Jesus casting demons out of people, we have stories of ghosts, we have stories of strange creatures that we don't know what they are. So the last thing that, the last hurdle we want to cover is alien life. Right does it not say at the beginning of the Bible in Genesis God created the heavens and the earth. He does not say it does not say anywhere in there what the heavens means.

8:50 Speaker 4: And so I get people that come up to me and say, well, that doesn't mean alien light. Why is there nothing about alien life in the Bible? And to that I respond with, when you buy a geasher, do you get a manual for the ge refrigerator?

9:03 Speaker 2: No?

9:04 Speaker 4: No, The Bible has always been referred to as the manual that Christians use for life here on Earth. Why would we have stories and lessons for a different planet in the book about us being here on Earth when we can't get really, we can't get people past the moon yet. No, I mean, we can get robots and probes and stuff out to Mars and out and beyond. But we live in a universe where we cannot perceive the end of it. Why would we be entitled by God if we really believe in God to have that information?

9:41 Speaker 4: Yet maybe we're not proposed to. So that's what I feel about religion and stuff, because I truly do believe in God. I believe that it's all. I just think God made all of it because it says He made everything. So now I forgot he had so many questions. I forgot where I was.

10:02 Speaker 2: Well, you did, you did answer. You did answer. So the that you do think that a skinwalker could exist and that evil is tangible.

10:11 Speaker 4: I haven't even told you why I think skinwalkers exist yet. Do you want to hear that story?

10:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.

10:21 Speaker 4: Okay, let's go as long as you're willing to hold on. This is a little convoluted story. And when I tell you at the end you're going to be like bold, but it's God's honest truth, and we have lots of witnesses.

10:35 Speaker 2: Like I said, okay, so.

10:39 Speaker 4: During the course of our gathering of stories, we usually get like a story and event happened at a location, and then you're like, oh, okay, so this event happened at this location. There are very few places on the planet where you can have one location, but it has a variety of different actstivity at it, like ranging all across the board. Places that jump into mind are like Skinwalker Ranch, where they have paranormal they have skinwalkers, they have alien life forms, they have all these different things that are happening at that one location.

11:16 Speaker 4: So we're gathering stories from different different officers and we end up finding a location on a on one of the reservations right out here where we end up having is it five officers now, I think we're up to five different officers that all had experiences at this location. And these experiences are all over the board. So the first one is in their post academy. We had an officer that told us, oh, yeah, we're trained in our post academy that when we drive down the dirt road past this mission. This church that's out in the middle of nowhere.

11:58 Speaker 4: It's on a dirt road. You drive past this mission and it's after dark. You are supposed to reach up and flip the rear view mirror up so you can't see in the back seat. And I'm looking at him. I'm like why, and he's like, because if you don't and you look in the back window or in the mirror into the back seat, if you see two glowing red eyes in the back seat, you have to immediately contact your supervisor, go to the station where they will arrange for a shaman to come and sever the attachment that just happened to you.

12:34 Speaker 4: This is a police agency instructing their officers to do this. And I tell that story to people and people don't get it. You don't understand how that is huge. That is an absolutely huge thing, not just because of the creepy eyes in the back seat, but the fact that the agency has this the.

12:52 Speaker 2: Standard operating procedure around it is what's yes.

12:57 Speaker 4: So after we get that story, we get a story about a officer who was driving past this mission. He had another officer behind him. Now, if you go down the dirt road past the mission, there's acting an area where they go shooting and where they practice all their firearms training. Way down the road. So they're driving back, it's after dark. This officer has a ride along in his seat next to him. It's now his wife. At the time, they were just dating. They're driving down the dirt road and they're moving okay, it's like thirty is it's a dirt road.

13:28 Speaker 4: It's you know, they're going twenty five thirty miles an hour. And she looks at she's talking to him, looking at him, and she looks out the driver's side window, and she's like, what the heck is that? And he looks over and the way he described it is, he's like, it was this giant creature that was very similar in description to the one that Noah gave us, large, almost canine type creature, kind of formed, weird like male formed and stuff like that, and it's keeping pace with the vehicle. Now, there are no wols in this part of Arizona.

14:01 Speaker 4: There's coyotes, but these coyotes you're getting two and a half maybe three feet tall. A three foot tall coyote is big. This thing was like closer to four almost five feet though, and it's running keeping pace with them in the vehicle. As they get to the mission, it runs in front of them, cuts in front of the vehicle, and runs back towards the mission. This guy he sees, he's like, I don't know what that is. We're getting out of here now. Remember I said he had a police another car behind him with another officer in it.

14:32 Speaker 4: That officer takes off after him. They go down this dirt road all the way to this paved road. They make a left, they go down and then there's a chevron and they pull into the chevron and he gets out of the car and the other officer gets out of the car and he's like, did you see that thing that ran past. He's like, yeah, I saw it ran right in front of us. And they're both like, we don't know what is that. I don't know what it was. And the thing that was interesting is the officer in the second car, he says, as it was towards the mission, this mission, like I said, it's the middle of nowhere.

15:03 Speaker 4: There's probably it's probably a mile to the closest house, and even maybe even more to the closest house. There is one light that is behind this mission. So The mission basically has the church building, this annex building, and then this like little patio covered area and there's a light right there. And that light it's like they tell they describe it as it snaps on and it snaps off. If it turns on, it's poof, it's on. When it turns off, it's poof, it's off. Right. The other officer that was following him is like, as it was running towards the mission, the light didn't snap off.

15:37 Speaker 4: It faded and got dimmer and dimmer as this thing got close to it, and when it got to it, it shut off. He's like, I never saw where it went past the annex building. So we're like, okay, two stories at this mission. Interesting. So then we get another officer who comes up and says, hey, I was at this mission and we're like that mission and he's like yeah, and he's backed in because the entire mission, it's it's still an active church. On Sundays they have services there. So the entire mission is surrounded by a chain link fence so that people don't get on there during you know, Monday through Saturday when there's nobody there.

16:16 Speaker 4: So the thing that they like is it's a great place to back your patrol car up when you're writing reports. So you'll back your patrol car because you know nobody's gonna come up from behind you because you got this big fence there. So this other officer is backed up there and he's working on a report, and all of a sudden he feels something shake his patrol car, like just a little kind of nudge that he feels it. He's like, was that really something? Is it my imagine?

16:42 Speaker 2: I don't know?

16:43 Speaker 4: So he turns the lights all on, the takedowns the side alley lights, stuff like that. When you turn all the lights on on a police car, you get a lot of light around that car. And he's looking out the windows. He's looking around, he can't he doesn't see anything. He's like, okay, this is weird. So he turns all over the lights off. Thinks it's his imagination, goes back to typing, and then something violently pushes the side of the car. He literally feels the entire car shape. He turns on the lights.

17:09 Speaker 4: He doesn't see anything, knows the stories of this mission, so he puts it in drive. He takes off beats feet to the chevron. Because when things get dicey, you go to the chevron. So he gets to the chevron. Now he's been driving down this dirt road, so all this dirt is kicking up and everything. He gets to the chevron, gets out of the car. He's taking a breather. He walks around to the rear passenger side of the car, and he tells us he sees in the dust on the window a human hand that is miniaturized, like a small human hand, looks almost like a child's hand, like a tiny hand.

17:46 Speaker 4: So this is the point where he proceeds to tell us about a little thing called the Little People. I don't know if your listeners have ever heard of the Little people, but in Native American beliefs, they are a race of terranean creatures that look like miniature humans. They look just exactly like a human, but they dress in rags and tattered stuff, and they're small. They're like two feet tall, maybe three feet tall, and they are known to be almost like pranksters or tricksters. They remind me a lot of like puck wedgies and stuff like that up in the Northeast, where they will start by making like almost like trickery, tricking things kind of like tripping people up, and they get more and more violent with what they're doing until they ultimately cause somebody to get seriously hurt or killed.

18:33 Speaker 4: And so he sees this little handprint, and he remembers that there is a legend in the tribe that there is an area right by that mission where the little people have access to the surface world, and so he's like, I don't know what this is. All I know is that there was a handprint there. And I don't know where that handprint came from because it was in the dust, but the dust wasn't stuck to it, so it had to be new. So that's third story at the mission. And then remember that one because one of the stories, the newest ones we got is going to tie into that one, the fourth story that we got at this mission.

19:11 Speaker 4: There's another officer. When you are driving down this dirt road towards this mission, the annex building is the first thing you see in the headlights. So they round this the road kind of bends away, and so your headlights light up the front of this annex building. This annex building is pretty small. It's got a door on the double door on the front door on the back there's really nothing inside of it but a main room and I think like a rest of bathrooms in the back. As they're rounding the corner, their headlights light up the front and they see that the front doors are kicked in, and so the being officers, they stop and they're like, well, we got to go check if somebody broke into this building, but the gate is locked.

19:49 Speaker 4: So they hop the fence like we've all had to do numerous times in the past, and they go up the stairs in the three light steps up into the annex building and they do what they will call clear the building. They check it. There's nobody inside this building. So now they walk back to the front and they're looking at the front door and they're like, well, we got to secure the building, but since it was kicked open, we can't lock the building. And so they look down and on the ground next to the stairs are three cinder blocks, and so they're like, okay, well we can bring these cinder blocks inside, push the door shut, stack the cinder blocks inside the door, so it we'll create the illusion that the door is shut.

20:28 Speaker 4: We've already checked the back door. The back door works. We can go out the back door. They we'll go around. We'll call the people that own the building and make sure that they're aware that and say, hey, it's secured on a parent it's not really secured. So they're like, okay, yeah, let's do that. So they bring the three bricks inside, they push the door shut, they stack the bricks up, they walk out the back, and they walk around to the front. Now, from the time that they stack up the bricks, walk out the back door, and walk back to the front.

20:56 Speaker 4: Because of the size of the building, you're talking a grand total of about ten seconds. It is not a big building. Okay, So they walk out the back door ten seconds later, they're now at the front to go back to top the fence to get to their patrol car. When they get to the front door, the front doors are standing wide open, and those three cinderblocks are eight to ten feet out in the dirt. And they stop and they look at it and they're like, they're looking around. There's no way somebody could have gotten in.

21:26 Speaker 4: They would have had to because they weren't. There's nobody inside the building. They were in the building. Somebody would have had to have come up, pushed open the doors, knocked the bricks off, grabbed the bricks, throw them out into the dirt, ran back down, popped over the fence, and got out of site in ten seconds. While two officers trained inspector investigators are walking around. Wouldn't hear the doors getting pushed open? See anybody climbing over the fence, hear anybody throwing these cinder box nothing?

21:54 Speaker 2: Yeah?

21:55 Speaker 4: Right, So the two doctors look at each other and they're like, what do you want to do? The train because it was an officer and his training officer, He's like, we're out, let's go say hot defence. They took off. So here's story number five. I'm not gonna mention any names, but Marian decided that since we have so many stories at this location, I think a brilliant idea would be for us to go out there and do an investigation.

22:26 Speaker 2: Why not? Why not?

22:28 Speaker 4: Why not? We got stories exactly? This is all good. We're trained investigators, we're good. So we have well, technically, we have three other people that are involved in our group, James Keenan and then two other husband and wife combination, Jesse and Gwen gwen Is. I don't know how else to describe it other than she knows stuff like she just knows.

22:53 Speaker 2: Stuff like intuitive or or is she smart?

22:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, she's like an intuitive medium.

23:00 Speaker 2: Type of Okay, thank got it.

23:02 Speaker 4: And again when I first met her, kind of skeptical. I've known her now for years and I just can't explain how she knows this stuff. But she's pretty spot on accurate.

23:11 Speaker 2: So some people are just like it's almost like they operate on a different like frequency and they see beyond the veil or whatever it is.

23:21 Speaker 4: So the two of us, Jesse and Gwen decide we're going to go out to the mission and check it out. So of course if we're going to check it out, we can't check it out during the daytime alone. We want to see it after dark because that's where all the scary stuff's happening.

23:33 Speaker 2: Could I ask a question real quick before you begin this, Now do you go? I would assume at least that are you going to the local police department and saying, hey, guys, we're here. We're gonna go down to this place that we've been getting reports from, Like how does that work? Did you communicate with the officers at all?

23:57 Speaker 4: You always want to get permsson because these are locations that, especially when you're on the reservation, that's trespassing, so you have to let people know you know who you are, what you're doing, stuff like that. So you always want to make sure that you get all of your things in order before you go out there. So we end up going out there, and when we first get there, it's daylight, and Jesse and I will kind of do like a walk around where Marianne and Gwen are staying at the front kind of the Gwen's trying to get a feel Marian's got some cameras and stuff.

24:32 Speaker 4: Jesse and I go for a little bit of a walk. There's a dry river creek bed that runs next to it that you can drop down into and walk around that has some pretty high cliffs that we can't get up to, but we walk around it. And when I come back to the front, I look at Gwen and I go, well, there's a lot of activity here, and she gets all excited. Oh, there's a lot of activity, and I'm like, time out high speed what I mean when there's like a fire pit in the back, there's broken beer bottles, there's quad tracks, there's a lot of activity that makes me think that there's like high school age kids that are out here party and when when it's Friday night and Saturday night, stuff like that.

25:08 Speaker 4: So we kind of walk around try to get a feel for it. Gwen has some unusual feelings about this well that's in the front. She gets some feelings about the buildings itself. But for the most part, we sit there and we're just like kind of trying to stay quiet, just kind of trying to watch see what's going on, see if we see anything or hear anything. We don't see anything or hear anything. So now it's getting dark. We've been out there for a couple of hours, and we're at the point now where we're like, you know, I don't know if anything's gonna happen, we may as well take off.

25:40 Speaker 4: So I have a pickup truck. We're all going to pile into the pickup truck. We had a cooler full of drinks and stuff like that for while we were sitting there, water, gatory and stuff like that. So I take the cooler and I put it in the back of my truck and I slam the tailgate shut. And the moment that I slam the tailgate shot. The only thing that I can say is it felt like a bolt of electricity shot up my back and I was like, like, the only thing I can think is you need to turn around. And I have never, like I've had hunches.

26:13 Speaker 4: Twenty five years as a cop, you get hunches. This was like a hunch on another level. I've never felt something that strong, be like, you need to turn around, right, it's been around. And I look past the mission by the annex and I see something walk out from behind this annex and I have never seen anything like that in my life. It was probably about six and a half to seven feet tall. It had shaggy hair on its head, but it did not have hair on its body. It had like rags on it. And the way that I described it, I would describe it as it was this weird shade of tan that almost exactly actually the desert behind it, So if it was daylight, it would be like camouflaged to the background.

27:08 Speaker 4: And I see this thing and I'm like, what the heck? And Gwen is standing right next to me and goes what the heck? And I'm like, are you seeing this? And she's like, yes, what is that? And I'm like I don't know. Now here's the weird part. I've got Marianne on this side of me, and Jesse is on the other side of Gwen. Neither of them could see the thing that Gwen and I were looking at, and I'm like, what the heck? And this thing moves to the middle of the dirt road that runs past it, and then it kind of starts rocking back and forth, like facing us, but kind of going like this, and I'm like, this is kind of weird.

27:48 Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, a second thing comes running out from behind and it's on all fours and it looked like the only way I could describe it is that black on black. It looked like a living shadow almost, and it came crawling out and it moved weird. It charged forward to us, towards us about maybe five or six steps. It was enough that I literally swept my coat away and grabbed it my handgun. So I was about to draw down on this thing. And as soon as I did that, it stopped, and I looked at I looked back at the truck, and I looked back and they were gone, like that quick gone.

28:32 Speaker 4: So I look at Gwenn and I'm like, did you see that. She's like yeah, and We're like, we need to go, and she's like yeah. So everybody loads up in the truck and we take off. So, of course we beat feet to the Chevron because when things get dicey, you go to the Chevron.

28:51 Speaker 2: Yeah.

28:53 Speaker 4: Now I understand why every officer told me when you see something weird, you drive to the chevron because it's about two miles way, but it is the only thing that is open with light anywhere near there. And so now I understand why everybody runs to the chevron when they see something there. Right, So we get to the Chevron. Now here's the interesting stuff. We teach a class about all these stigmas that law enforcement face, and one of them is what we call the believability factor, and that's based off the fact that everybody has certain beliefs and things that they believe, what they think is real, what they think is not real, and when you see something that you can't grasp, you start to kind of fall back into this, well, it's just too unbelievable.

29:38 Speaker 4: I can't believe that it happened. That's ridiculous. So we drive two miles down the road to the Chevron, and by the time we get to the Chevron, I have pretty much convinced myself that I didn't see anything and it was all in my head.

29:51 Speaker 2: Now.

29:51 Speaker 4: The problem was is when I looked at Gwen, She's like, but I saw it too, and I'm like, okay. So then, continuing on with the story, we grab some drinks, we load back up in the truck, and now we're going to drive back towards our side of town. We decide we're going to go get something to eat, so we go to a restaurant and I won't mention the name, even though I love the restaurant, but we don't want to get trademark issues here. We're sitting there and by the time we get to the restaurant, I have once again convinced myself that I didn't see anything, and this is ridiculous.

30:26 Speaker 4: It was a trick of the light or something. I don't know what it is. Gwen keeps saying, well, I saw something. I don't know what it is. The entire time we're having this conversation, somebody not mentioning any names. Marianne is playing around with something and I can't see what it is. And after I'm talking to Gwen, I'm like, I don't know, maybe we saw something. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's a trick of the light. Maybe it was I don't know. And that's when Marianne hands me a video camera she was recording, and she's like, what do you use see here?

31:01 Speaker 4: And I look on the video and I don't know what it is, but it it didn't look exactly like what I saw, but it looked like the only way you can describe it is in the movie Predator when the predator is moving and you know how it's invisible and it's you can see a silhouette moving. But yeah, tell it looked like that. So she hands me this video. I'm looking at this video. We put it on the computer, we pull it up, we can see it. We're like, we don't know what this is, So of course we're gonna take this video and we're gonna send it to the one person that we know that if this is bunk, he is going to tell us it's bunk.

31:40 Speaker 4: And that person, Mark d' antonio.

31:43 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we saw the video analyst remove on if everyone doesn't want to.

31:48 Speaker 4: Send him the video. And there were two things in the video that we saw one and we knew that the one was was Bunk. It was a a post from a that because of the shadow, looked like a figure kind of moving out, but it was over too far. That was not the thing that we saw, but it was in the video. And I'm not gonna lie to you. We said it because we wanted to see if Mark would say, hey, that's just a post in it not something.

32:16 Speaker 2: That's actually a good tactics like a police officer, just like trait or investigative mind set is like here, let me give him something that I think is fake, and I want to see his like discernment.

32:27 Speaker 4: So everything that we do we try and put it through as much of a ringer as we can put it through to make sure that it's as legit as possible. Right being Mark, I mean Mark, he's the number one guy on the planet. He caught that pretty quick. He's like, well, that's just a pillar from from the a post from the fence that when when the camera moves over, the light lights it up and it looks like a creature kind of going like this with its arm forward right, And he's like, but he's like, I don't know what you have here.

32:58 Speaker 4: He's like this stuff the shimmering not really shimmering. But like this like kind of oh, how to describe it, like pixelated kind of something. He's like, that's not a trick of the light. That's not a camera flare. That's nothing like I've ever seen. He's like, and you know it's humanoid. It's moving on two legs. And we did not tell him what we saw. We just said, hey, there's two things in this video clip we want you to take a look at. He was the one who told us it basically confirmed the two things that we wanted seeing.

33:32 Speaker 4: But he comes back and tells us, I don't know what that is, but it's humanoid whatever it is. So so we have this on video, we have presented it at stage presentations, and people have come up and seen it, and nobody can explain this thing. So we end up meeting with John John Nover. He was over here at the house and I ended up like kind of just hey, John, we had this weird thing happened, and I kind of explain everything to him, this is what we saw. By the way. I keep looking because I want to see if it's still daylight out, because I respect the beliefs of the Native Americans out here, and they say, you don't say those words after dark, you're not to say.

34:17 Speaker 4: So I keep checking because I want to make sure it's still daylight, because I don't want to say it after dark. But we I explained it all to John, and I'm like, what do you think it is? And John's looking at me like I'm crazy, and he goes, I can tell you exactly what it is, and I was like what. He's like, you ran into two skin walkers and I was like what, And so he proceeds to explain because he's like, not only were they skinwalkers, I can tell you exactly why they did what they were doing. And so he said one of them had changed, the other one had not changed yet He's like the one that changed, he said, when they change from a form to a human form, their eyesight it is not good for about ten to fifteen minutes.

35:02 Speaker 4: He says, they can't see very well. So he said, most likely what ended up happening was the one changed from a creature for whatever creature form it had, to a humanoid form right at the same time that you slam the tailgate shut it. Hears the tailgate slam because we had been whispering, not making any noise. So it's walking across. Here's the tailgate. Shut spins around to see what it is, but it can't see what's going on, so that's why it's kind of moving back and forth trying to see what made that noise.

35:35 Speaker 4: He said that they transform separately, so that one is always on guard for the other.

35:41 Speaker 1: The other.

35:42 Speaker 4: Yeah, he said, the one that was on all fours came running around to protect the one. It stops sees you guys, charged forward to scare you guys, but you didn't run. You reached for your gun, so it stopped, and then they both got out of there. When you look back at the truck, they realized this is not a fight. We want to get it, so they took off while we were.

36:03 Speaker 5: Looking at the truck interest and deep I listened to this and I'm like, this is one of the leading experts on skinwalkers in the world, and he seems to think that's what it was.

36:16 Speaker 4: I got no reason to doubt him. And like I said, at this point in my life, I have encountered enough things that I can't explain, Like I don't know what that is. We sent that video out for analysis. We have had more people see this clip than I know what to do with and nobody can give us anything. I think it's a skinwalker?

36:35 Speaker 2: Is it? Is it somewhere I can look and look it up?

36:41 Speaker 4: No, we have, We haven't in our presentation. We don't share a lot of our stuff because we're worried about where it's going to go. So if you wanted to see it, I would be willing to send it to you, but I not want it out like we normally will tell people to not Like we the nine to one one tape, we have the security footage, we have this video clip, we have a lot of video. We've got bodycam footage from officers, We've got close circuit TV video from things. We show it to people, but we always ask them to turn off any type of recording.

37:16 Speaker 4: You. We would let you see it, but you got to promise us you're not going to put it out or anything like that.

37:21 Speaker 2: I can make that promise, Okay, I just want I'd like to definitely see it. Yeah, I'll agree to that. And so with the evidence that you have kind of gathered on this particular mission, Oh.

37:42 Speaker 4: We have one more story. It's about mission I forget. So we had a completely different officer who had a different sighting and a different part of the res tells us he was at that location writing reports, and remember how I said the little people will try to lure people or trick people. He's sitting there and he's got the windows down because it's, you know, a nice night out. He's typing and he tells us, I heard a baby crying. And I get out of the patrol car and I'm like, why would there be a baby crying out here?

38:13 Speaker 4: And I started walking towards the sound, and it was coming from that ravine. And he's like, I'm walking towards it, which is this is the area where they claim that they have access to the surface world. And so he's like, I would stop moving, and I would hear the cry again. I'd take a couple of steps and then it would stop, and so I wouldn't I'd stop and then I would hear the cry again. And he's like, I got about halfway between the patrol car and this dry river bed, and all of a sudden, I got this feeling like I'm being lured away from the patrol car, like something is trying to get me to go over here.

38:53 Speaker 4: So, remembering the story of the little people, he goes back to the petrol car and he takes off. But I found it ironic because he's like, this is a trained officer who's hearing a baby cry in an area where there should not be any babies. Of course, just to put everybody's mind at ease, after the sun came up, everything that there was no baby there, so don't worry. He did not like abandon a baby in the ravine with with you know, taken. An investigation was conducted to make sure that there was nothing there.

39:24 Speaker 4: But the point was he felt that something was trying to lure him over to.

39:31 Speaker 2: That ravine, which sounds something which sounds I interviewed, So, I'm working on a project. I've been working on it for several years, and I recently recently. I when I say that, well, in fact, I when I say that, I mean recently, like a couple of years. I interviewed a guy named Bill Russo who had an encounter with a puckwadgie that you know, you had brought it that up earlier and again this thing. He was on a walk with his dog at at you know, dawn or not don dusk, when the night was settling or the night was beginning, and this thing tried to lure him into the woods, and it was like cute, and it was little, and it had this like really like high pitch, like cute voice that was trying to lure him into the woods.

40:27 Speaker 2: And luckily his dog was there and was on a very high alert. Or he said, he probably would have been curious if his dog wasn't there and freaking out. He probably would have been curious enough to be like, wait, what is that? Like, yeah, so you gotta like you get and that and that brings me up. It brings me to my next point, because I want to end with the Phoenix lights because I want to know you guys are in Arizona. I really want to know what your experience was like living in the time of the Phoenix and what that was like.

41:01 Speaker 2: I know you guys do a lot of uh speaking at you know, I think I think they hold a annual conference about it or at least a thing, uh a dedication to it. So before that, as a law enforcement officer, you know, I I the kidnapping is obviously a very this is a severe charge, right that is not that's not investigation that that that normally tasked with human on human kidnapping that you don't take super seriously, these abduction stories that that when you do hear them, what's your take on that? You know, what's do you think it's happening?

41:47 Speaker 2: And and and is there a difference between indifference and malevolency or or in this case?

41:56 Speaker 4: Okay, so so I'm gonna tell you my take it is probably a little different than what most people would think. From a police officer. My take on it is this, something happened to that person, and they suffer some sort of trauma, and they are entitled to an investigation. They are entitled to feel safe in their house or safe wherever they are, and it is not our job as police officers to judge what happened to them. Our job is to gather the facts and try and make these people feel as safe as possible.

42:34 Speaker 4: So when you get a case like that, you have to take it seriously because it could very well be that it's nothing extraterrestrial at all, and it could be somebody pretending. We've had cases and move on of people pretending to be alien entities to abduct people or to harass people or stuff like that, and we end up finding out that it has nothing to do with it. They're just trying to do it because they want to make the person seem that they're crazy or try and destroy their family life or stuff like that.

43:07 Speaker 4: So any type of investigation like that, any type of thing that comes forward where somebody says to a police officer, I think this happened to me. It is our job and it is our duty in it, and we owe it to them to a take it seriously and be do a complete and thorough investigation because you never know where that investigation could lead.

43:29 Speaker 3: One of the investigations we did together, and that's one thing we always say is when you do an investigation with moufan, you always bring two people, one to actually do the interview, the other one to observe the body language of that person you're interviewing. Also, if there's someone else in the house, that second person might go off with that of family member or friend that's in the house and talk to them. Case in point on that is it was my case. I was talking to this gal about she believed she was abducted and she lost time.

44:05 Speaker 3: She was walking on a canal bank and early early in the morning before it was daylight, and she would be walking on the canal bank. Next thing, you know, people that are also walking on waking her up. Hey are you okay? You're okay?

44:21 Speaker 4: And she believes.

44:21 Speaker 3: She's you know, lost time and probably was abducted. So I started interviewing her. While I'm interviewing her and our chief investigator was getting all the lights put together. In the audio, Dave was talking to a I believe it was a sister in another room, And so Dave's asking about my galp you know, any health issues, anything out of the ordinary, and just having a conversation. Well, the sister started telling Dave that her sisters here has seizures. If any lights start flickering anything else, she could have a seizure just right right away.

45:03 Speaker 3: So I didn't know about that at first. So I says, okay, great, So Dave is getting good information. I'm talking to the gal that believes she was abducted and lost time. And one of the questions we asked, are you taking any medication? Do you have any medical history of any health issues that you might have? And I don't go specific, And that's one thing about police work. You've you asked open ended questions. You don't ask yes or no, like, are you do you have seizures? Well that could be yes or no, say no, do you have any health issues?

45:41 Speaker 3: Let them tell you. So that's one thing you do is the open ended questions. So I was asking her that, no, have no health issues, not taking any medication, Everything's fine, no problem. I had missing time. I believe I was abducted. Okay, fine, you know great, So I understand that. You know, we took all the information down. We took where on the location of where this occurred with her on the canal bank. So we got all that information. So finished again, like we say, we questioned people. We don't interrogate because Dave already knew that she had health issues, but of course I didn't.

46:21 Speaker 3: And but he didn't go and start talking to her and interrogating her saying, well, wait a minute, don't you have this At some point, you know, she believes in her mind that she was abducted and.

46:33 Speaker 2: You're not there to tell her what she doesn't doesn't feel right.

46:37 Speaker 4: And she did provide a hand drawn picture of what it looked like. She had a picture. You could see the canal bank, you could see where the UFO was, and from what she described, she had drawn something.

46:50 Speaker 3: For us, right, So after our interview, we go out to that location on the canal bank and find the area where she said she was abducted. And what we found is there is a tennis court right on the side of this canal bank and the lights to the tennis court are those type of yeah, sodium lights that when they yet, when they're getting when they're starting out to die, they do the flickering and then flicker. So what we believe happened the time of day where she was located and everything that happened is that those lights, she noticed those lights doing the flickering, and that is what the sister said will cause the sizars a flickering type of light, and that's what was happening.

47:43 Speaker 4: And so when we held up the picture that she drew, you can see the canal. We're literally standing on the canal bank and right where the UFO was is where that light is sticking up out of the tennis court. So if it was flickering, it is exactly where she said.

48:04 Speaker 2: So that's a very good example of like how to investigate and what happens like this is that is a good example of like, hey, not everything is as it seems, but also not everything is spectacular.

48:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's what you can't call somebody a liar. You just got to do a good investigation. Were they abducted Travis or could it be like this.

48:29 Speaker 4: Goal But at the end of the day, the way we found that out was by doing a complete investigation. You can't just shut them down and say, oh, well, that's ridiculous. It didn't happen because we ended up finding out that she ended up having a seizure and she needed to really go get medical attention.

48:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, I mean that's also very true. And that's what I give. I give law enforcement credit and first responders credit because not only are you doing the job, whether it's being a you know, a police officer, firefighter, especially police officer, I think you end up becoming like almost like a you have to do like mental like like you have to kind of be able to be not a shrink, but you have to be able to to like hear people out and let them speak their truth and let them get it all out.

49:25 Speaker 2: And it's you know, maybe that's cathartic in itself for someone is we call.

49:31 Speaker 4: It the human condition.

49:33 Speaker 2: Understanding the human condition right, right, And so with that, with that being said, you know, if what do you think is holding back true disclosure? Is it for all the reasons we've talked about tonight so far? Is it that it's so far beyond what we understand as to be reality and it totally crack open people's reality like they're they're belief systems and or do you think there's some sort of cover up?

50:12 Speaker 3: No, but my this is my belief. Okay, you've got all of these upologists, you've got all these scientists, you've got all these people that think they know what science is. Everybody has their own opinion of what disclosure is gonna be. Okay, My analogy on that is you have a homicide police department, You got a homicide, You got three detectives work in this homicide. If all three detectives says, oh no, this is what happened. Oh no, no, no, this is what happened. Oh no, this is what happened, we'll never solve that homicide.

50:49 Speaker 3: Those three guys and gals get together and they come up with, Okay, this after a thorough investigation, this is how the homicide occurred. Boom, this could be the suspect everybody in the science world or the disclosure world saying, you've got all these people that think they know the answer, and they're backfiting each other. They're lying to each other. Oh, you're not right. This is right, this is right, this is right. And I have seen it at conferences, I have seen it on news things that everybody knows until we all get together as one and come up with, hopefully a situation, solve this situation and come up with an answer.

51:35 Speaker 3: But the only way we're going to do that is if we all come together. And I don't see that happening. Everybody thinks they.

51:44 Speaker 4: Know the answer.

51:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody wants to be the Everybody wants to be the quarterback that runs the ball into the end zone. But they don't realize that we're playing a team.

51:53 Speaker 4: Sport is twofold about disclosure first and it sounds cheesy as it can be. But Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith sitting on a parion, he saw it. Will Smith says, well, why doesn't the government tell people people are smart? Tommy Lee Jones says, no, a person is smart. People are panicky, dangerous creatures, and you know it. And everybody who's a first responder, especially a police officer, understands that statement on people are dangerous, a person can be smart and in all honesty, what Marianne said along with that is, I personally think that's what the government wants, because if we were to truly get full disclosure, do you guys understand what that means?

52:43 Speaker 4: That means the government, which is arguably the most powerful entity on the planet, has to admit that there are things, entities, beings, racist, creatures, whatever you want to call it, that have better technology, better abilities, better weapons, and when it comes down to it, we can do exactly nothing to stop them. No government is going to admit that to its people because you have just given any sway, any leeway, any power that you have over the people that you are governing. You have just flushed it down the toilet because you have just admitted to them that the government is not the end all be all.

53:30 Speaker 4: There is a group of people or entities, things, whatever you want to call them, that can basically shut it down, and I don't care what government is. No government is going.

53:39 Speaker 2: To admit that, right because it's almost like, and I've said this in other shows before, so it's kind of funny that you're touching.

53:47 Speaker 4: On this.

53:49 Speaker 2: That it's there's like this social social agreement and it's an unspoken agreement between at least in a democracy or you know, whatever that looks like. These days, some argue

54:07 Speaker 2: there's a a deal that the citizens make with the government. You keep us safe, right, and and I can live my good life and I pay my taxes. Right, that's the deal. That's the deal. And and the minute the government comes out and says we can't protect you fully like you are not actually like the odds of something happening to you, you being abducted or anything like you like, they're they're they're small, but it's not impossible, just like someone breaking into your house is I mean, it's the chances are small, but the implication is very large in this case.

54:50 Speaker 2: So I feel like that's what we're stump. And you're right. I don't think any government, unless they're there, their hand is forced by some sort of like like they see something coming and they know, okay, we can plot that trajectory. We have about three years to get everybody at least up the speed. And I kind of think that that might be what's happening. And that's why since twenty seventeen, the shift has kind of occurred.

55:21 Speaker 4: Well that's why everybody says, a UFO landing on the White House lawn, Yeah, because how do you hide that? Well, nowadays, we got AI, we got all sorts of special effects and stuff like that. But I almost think it's going to take something that big to literally, like what you said, force their hand.

55:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys a big, a huge case. I mean, one of the biggest. In fact, I mean I know it is is it's it's one of the most well known, if not the most well known mass sighting a whole city, not to mention the people in others states, bordering states and states along these things. Supposed or alleged track which I think was westward from Phoenix or is that? Am I right? Northwest, northwest.

56:17 Speaker 4: Southeast? Yeah?

56:18 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm sorry, So I had it backwards. What was it like to be in Arizona in nineteen ninety seven when the Phoenix lights incident happens. I mean, we're gonna well probably end here, and I'd love to have you guys back on. We've already talked about that. You know, we're two hours in and I could probably talk for another I could asked questions for five hours, probably with all the knowledge that you guys have, but set the stage and and and what was it like during that time? Because I mean, that's.

56:54 Speaker 3: Well, I can make it real easy. I was shift, so I was fast to sleep when all this was happening.

57:03 Speaker 4: And I wasn't a cop yet I started in.

57:08 Speaker 2: Sorry, all right, never mind. So yeah, we'll end it there, Gott And I'm just kidding.

57:14 Speaker 3: Now. There has been We did speak at the Phoenix Lights I guess, not conference but.

57:25 Speaker 4: The Phoenix the annual event event.

57:28 Speaker 3: Yeah, we spoke last year and everything, But my biggest thing is, like I said, I was fast asleep. I went to briefing the next morning. Nobody ever talked about it. That was really nothing. People really didn't talk about it back then in nineteen ninety seven, thanks to the governor knocking it down, you know, to flares. Everybody was talking real quick. It was all flairs flares, so everybody just kind of kept it like, oh okay, it was flares and they just dropped the story.

58:03 Speaker 4: So yeah, So ironically, since we've started UAPPD, we have gotten two officers, one from the Mason PD and one from MCSO that were both working that date, and they gave us their take of what they saw. But interestingly enough, we ended up tracking down a firefighter because we also work with firefighters and other first responders. He told us that he was at a training that that night that had happened with like seventy firefighters and police officers, and he told us what they saw from their perspective because they were up in Cave Creek.

58:39 Speaker 4: But here was the thing that was interesting or in lightning, I should say, in my world, exactly like what Mary Anne said. First responders, nobody talked about it. This guy told us they're all standing around doing a debriefing. They're in the dark. There were helicopter pilots there that were all landed there doing the debrief They see these lights coming from the northwest heading passed, so they're watching it and he's like, initially everybody was all captivated, like, what is this? What is this thing flying?

59:09 Speaker 4: It's huge? What could it be? Is it a group of things flying information or is it one large thing? We couldn't figure it out. And the thing that he said was interesting. He's like, at one point somebody in the group says, Oh, it's probably military and then everybody dropped it. And among law enforcement and first responders, that is a trend. The moment you see something that you can't explain, if somebody throws out, oh, it's probably military, we never push it any further. And that I'm you know, now that we're starting to realize these sort of things.

59:44 Speaker 4: When we were all officers, we didn't think really beyond that, like somebody says, it's military, okay. But now that we're both retired, we're kind of like, why did we always accept that answer? Right? Always just default as soon as somebody with barer stars or st I have said, oh, it's military, we just kind of let it go. And this was the first time that it really kind of came up from a different source to me that during the interview when he said it, I was like, man, why why is that? Why do we just as soon as somebody in command says, oh, it's military, we just let it.

1:00:19 Speaker 2: Go, right we we It's it's like a kind of like our brains want to, yeah, just taken out on it, right. It's like it's easier to just be like okay, And and probably especially from a law enforcement you know, you guys are trying the goal is to solve things, it's not to leave them unresolved. So you know, if someone's telling you it's solved, you know it's solved. Uh. And I think that that that sometimes, you know, can lead to issues, especially with certain other realms of law enforcement. But you know, in terms of the Phoenix Lights, uh, just looking at it as a as two police officers, with the amount of evidence, and whether you want to include Fife Simington flipping and now saying he did see it, that's up to you.

1:01:13 Speaker 2: Uh. But do you think that that case has enough at least evidences as far as you know, witness testimony, video evidence, that and and then the mock uh, the air Force trying to recreate the event multiple times to know, to no avail, to not even close. In fact, it was almost laughable. Is the statement that I've been given multiple times that the people in Phoenix were very upset that they weren't being taken seriously and that something extraordinary happened and honestly might even continue to happen.

1:01:53 Speaker 2: Uh. You know, it seems like doctor Linktai has made a case that it didn't just end on that it didn't happen on that one night and it didn't end on that one night.

1:02:03 Speaker 3: Well, that's inting to say. That is because if you talk to John Dover, the night before there were these lights up in Loop, which is on the Navajo reservation where he lives, where people were saying, here's lights, here's lights. They all went outside, they all took out their lawn chairs and they sat there and they watched the light show. There were lights going all over in that area in Loop, and they accepted it, you know, they're like, yeah, okay, this happened, and it was interesting. It was the day before the Phoenix lights, the thirteen, so that would have happened on the March twelve.

1:02:40 Speaker 3: Phoenix's happened on March thirteen. Now was there something?

1:02:45 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I don't think anybody can argue that nothing happened. Something happened. The question is was it military? Was it extraterrestrial? Was it an in conmensional? The question is what is it? I don't think any buddy can get away with saying, well, nothing happened that night, or they can get away with saying it was flares, like you said, the Flair thing. In all, honestly, the Flair thing makes me think it might have been more of a government thing, because why would they the military be that quick to come up with an excuse or or smoking mirrors, look over here, look over here thing if they didn't know that something was already happening.

1:03:27 Speaker 4: So part of me thinks, and I don't know for sure, but part of me thinks it might have been more of a military craft that they were testing. But like I said, I don't know. I don't have all the facts, but I just think one thing makes me wonder.

1:03:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think if it was military, the way that that the operation was conducted was it was. I mean, it was terrible. Yeah, you show, you showed. You shouldn't show the entire city.

1:03:58 Speaker 4: But if you've got to second, let me throw something out to.

1:04:02 Speaker 2: You, could be a psychological operation.

1:04:06 Speaker 4: Not even that. Prior to the Phoenix light sighting, there was a scientist in the Las Vegas, Nevada area that came up with a substance that looked like plexiglass, but it basically refracted light and if he held it up, you could get behind it and you would see beyond where he is. Yeah, let me just throw this out there again. I have no proof that this is real. I have no proof that this is what happened. But I'm just throwing it out. I'm the government, and I just created a stealth dirigible. Because this substance, you can't move fast.

1:04:46 Speaker 4: You have to move slow with it. So I want to create a platform that can loiter, can travel very slowly over an area, and will not be seen. So I'm going to take this my craft, my dirigible, my stealth blimp, whatever you want to call it, giant wing shaped thing. I'm going to cover the entire bottom of it with this substance. So what I'm standing on the ground looking up, I don't see it. I see the stars behind it. We have multiple witnesses that say it's like you could see through it, but like it was there, but you could see through it.

1:05:19 Speaker 4: We have number of witnesses that have said that. So now I'm the government. I want to test this. Where do I test it? I need to test it over someplace. So I'm going to pick a city that is in the middle of pretty much nowhere where if I if it botches, if it goes south, we can go north, southeast, or west. It doesn't matter which direction we're going to get out from that city. We happen to have an airport or a military base in that city where we can have jets station with flares. If things go south, we can launch them, have them drop flares and claim it was all a training acts incident or some thing like that.

1:06:01 Speaker 4: So, like I said, it kind of makes sense, now, is it the truth? I have no idea. Maybe it was an alien craft, maybe it was interdimensional. I don't know, but I look at that military thing and for some reason, that keeps sticking in my craw about how they were able to get jets up there so quick to drop flares, and how they were so quick to kind of deny, deny cover Fife Symington. Oh yeah, we're going to turn it into a joke. And so again, like I said, I don't know for sure. I wasn't a cop at the time.

1:06:39 Speaker 4: I didn't see them. I was, I think, asleep because I was working a weird shift at that time, doing a job before I became an officer. But whenever I hear the stories about that, for some reason, I always remember seeing that it was on a TV special about like Black Files, about this this Colymner or this substance, and I'm like, you know, that kind of fits a little bit. I don't know, just throwing it.

1:07:07 Speaker 2: Out there, I think, uh that the you know, I just had Tim Phillips and he he was a part of uh he was the acting director for ARROW for a while. And you know, not to say that I agree with him on anything or or in fact now I don't agree with him on a lot of things. But you know, the black triangles and the fiery orbs are are are something that even ARROW like can't really explain. They can't. They're not saying it's it's aliens or anything like that, but they just they definitely can't explain it. And the fiery orbs consistently being being seen, uh, whether it's Malmstrom Air Force Base, whether it's my Not Air Force Base, Vandenberg air Force Base, whether it's Warring Air Force Base, Elvesworth air Force Base, you name it, laying the air Force base so uh and Rendelsham.

1:08:10 Speaker 2: Then there's the case in Russia or a modern day Ukraine former Soviet Union that George Knapp the files he smuggled out that at the nuclear site there where this fiery these fiery red orbs are seen coming into our nuclear sites, our most sensitive facilities and having the ability to tamper with our nuclear weapons. I mean, if there's a bigger national security implication or threat, if you're looking at it from a military standpoint, that's it. And well, like what.

1:08:46 Speaker 4: You said, one of the things that we always talk about during our presentations is do we know the answers to these things? No? But is it only we don't know the answers now? Who's to say what's going to happen? So we like to give the example of if we had a time machine and we went back in time one hundred years and we had a cell phone and showed it to somebody, it would be indistinguishable from magic. And then if we took technology from one hundred years ago, we jumped in and went back a hundred more years and we showed both of those the cell phone and whatever, that archaic thing that we look at that's ancient.

1:09:22 Speaker 4: Somebody back then is going to look at both of them exactly the same. It's magic. We can't understand it. Who's to say, fifty to one hundred years from now, we might figure out what these are and it might be something that we look at at that point as technology that right now we look at as paranormal, supernatural, something unexplained that we don't believe outside of belief. But who's to say one hundred years from now, we're not going to look at it the way that we look at cell phones right now.

1:09:52 Speaker 4: Every twelve year.

1:09:52 Speaker 2: Old has a cell phone, right and we're conditioned now to if you see a twelve year old without an eyepass, if you're like, what's wrong with that kid?

1:10:03 Speaker 4: Why does what?

1:10:04 Speaker 2: Why is he? Why is he paying attention at dinner? What is that?

1:10:10 Speaker 4: Matter of time?

1:10:11 Speaker 2: It could be? And again, you know, I'd love to have you guys back on. You guys have a I'll put the link in the description below w w W dot u A p dash p d dot com and I have it right here as well. You guys. I like the I love the logo. Yeah really because you incorporated you know, right, the ufo, the ghostly figure and the cryptid. He like the paranormal, cryptid and the other worldly. It has everything.

1:10:45 Speaker 4: I love it.

1:10:45 Speaker 2: So what what what if you had to say if there's one thing that listeners are get uh people watching, if there's one the thing that you'd want to get across about uh instigating and law enforcement and the unknown. What would that be.

1:11:06 Speaker 3: Well, if what we tell people is that if you are a law enforcement officer or a first responder and you have seen something that you cannot explain, don't keep it inside, don't think you're crazy, don't stress out. Please, you have a place to go. Contact us content uap dash ped dot com. We want you to understand that you could either remain absolutely totally anonymous, you could identify yourself, it doesn't matter. We just want you to understand there's a safe zone that you can come tell us your stories, and that you don't have to have that stress inside.

1:11:44 Speaker 3: That's that's one thing that we're This job is stressed enough. You don't need to have that hurting your health, hurting your mental hurting your family life. We are here for you. We want to help you out as best we can.

1:12:00 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. So what you know is it only law enforcement that you work with, or is are there are there other ways that.

1:12:14 Speaker 4: You know?

1:12:15 Speaker 2: Could a military person contact you?

1:12:18 Speaker 4: Well, we we do. Any first responders is what we're looking for, So firefighters, police officers, EMT emergency room technicians, ambulance drivers, emergency room doctors, nurses, corrections parole probation. We haven't really done anything with military, but if military police they're on duty during it, or a firefighter for the military wants to reach out to us, we kind of are trying to stay with first responders because that's what we won't really understand. But even if somebody just wants to talk or has a story and they're not a first responder, they can always contact us.

1:12:56 Speaker 4: We may not be able to do an investigation, we may not be able to take the story and use it as we're using to try and encourage other first responders, but we're still going to help people. We might be able to direct them to a source, like if it's a UFO sighting, we have a lot of contacts with Moufan and the IUFOB, the International UFO Bureau. We have connections in with counselors, trauma counselors. We have a lot of resources that even if it's not a first responder, you just don't know where to go right, we might be able to find a paranormal investigator or some group that's in your area that we might be able to contact and be like, hey, we got this story.

1:13:36 Speaker 4: Can you reach out to these people and help them, And that's ultimately what we want to do is ultimately we're just trying to help people, you know, encountering something like that. You shouldn't have to go through it alone. It's a trauma and where we want to help.

1:13:51 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I love that. I love that if you guys could pick each one before you go on, you don't have to go into the case. But what is your favorite historical case, whether like you know, if it's the Knimtz encounter, Roswell, what's your favorite case to ponder over?

1:14:11 Speaker 3: Minus Val Johnson in Minnesota.

1:14:16 Speaker 2: That's a little that's a little obscure. Can you just give me the give me the elevator one real quick?

1:14:21 Speaker 1: On that.

1:14:22 Speaker 3: He's driving down the road middle of the night. He's on patrol. He's a sheriff's deputy, looks off to his left, sees his white ball or something that's in the on the roadway, kind of hovering. Thought it was a car accident, could have been a plane crash. As he's driving toward it, this light comes in through his windshield and hits him in the chest. Like he said, it was like a getting hit by a two hundred pounds pillow rest he had fractured both his upper his job, his top teeth, bottom teeth, His had burns are what they called arc welder burns to his eyes.

1:15:06 Speaker 2: Wow, oh my god.

1:15:10 Speaker 3: I believe it was a Ford dealership and also not GE, but maybe General Dynamics or whoever the big electronic companies back then. What was that ninety seventy six, nineteen seventy six. They can't figure out what hit the car. But what's interesting is all of the damage on the cars on the driver's side. It goes from the headlight to the windshield, to the light bar of the lights up on the bar red and blue lights, over to an antenna and go straight back. If it was a rock, if it was a bird, if it was any kind of object, it would have hit the front of the car and then just went off different directions.

1:16:00 Speaker 3: This went up and over where it hit him and went over they matter of fact, his patrol car is still in the museum. I was just talking to Don Schmidt the other day. That car is still in the museum in Minnesota, and his cheek of police and everybody believed exactly what he said.

1:16:25 Speaker 4: Right there there you go.

1:16:27 Speaker 3: So I would love to ever get a chance to meet this gentleman. But to me, there's so much evidence there and I very much this has always been a real interesting case for me.

1:16:40 Speaker 2: Wow, that is wild.

1:16:42 Speaker 4: I would say the case that really fascinates me is probably even more obscure than Bell Johnson. And that's Jim Blackwood from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Clarendon, Nova Scotia. Okay, have you heard of that story Royal Canadium. A police officer gets called to a bay Clarington, Nova Scotia. There's a bay and there is a craft hovering like five hundred feet over the water. He's there with like twelve other eyewitnesses. They describe it as a silver craft. It's got lights on it. He literally takes his flashlight, lights it up and it flashes lights back.

1:17:20 Speaker 4: It ends up rising up. After about I think twenty minutes are watching it, it rises up and then just takes off. They check with the Air Force, everything like that. There's nothing on radar. They have no idea what it was like. I said, he had dozens of witnesses on the shore that saw this thing. But the reason why it sticks out to me for two reasons. First of all, the local hockey team renamed their team the UFOs, which I thought was awesome, but then no way. The second thing was his supervisors made him talk to the media and you can find the video clips of his interview online talking about out what he saw.

1:18:01 Speaker 4: And one of the reasons that we got into UAPPD was what is the ramifications of being too honest? When nobody ever talks to Lock talk to Annie Zamora after what happened to him after the sighting. Nobody ever talked to Veil Johnson what happened to him after the siding. Nobody ever talked to this guy after the sighting. He was actually asked. He was the only one I know that was actually asked afterwards about it, and he says, I had to talk because this my supervisors made me. But it was the worst mistake I ever made for my career because all of these officers, their careers go downhill in a big way after these sightings.

1:18:40 Speaker 2: Right, Lonnie actually, you know, famously left the police department because he didn't want his baggage attached. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier, is like you know, a brother in arms and you know, not taking everyone else down.

1:18:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's that's exactly what happened to this guy. He's like, it was the worst mistake I ever made.

1:19:03 Speaker 2: It's so sad. So if you're if you are a large law enforcement officer or a first responder, definitely reach out if you've seen something. And uh yeah, I mean, I thank you guys so much for what you do and I have so much respect for it. And I can't wait to uh come out there to Arizona and experience Arizona's got this weird Sedona Phoenix. I mean, what's out the air, what's out in the era? You know, you guys don't do daylight savings? Yeah, what's wrong with you guys?

1:19:39 Speaker 4: Oah, I'll tell you what. You come out here to visit sometime. Obviously, you got a place to see here with Marianne. I'm offering her house again. We will take you to a bunch of different places. We won't take you to the Mission.

1:19:51 Speaker 2: The Mission, Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't think I want to go there.

1:19:54 Speaker 4: We got some other places that we could take you where there's some pretty interesting stuff.

1:20:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I really really want to. It's one of the states that I think i've driven through. But I didn't like. We didn't even drive through it long enough for it to be memorable. So on one of one of the trips back, but I I've always wanted to see I've always wanted to be. Oh no, I did, so I stopped. Ironically, my layover in for contact was Phoenix, but I was on the in the airport, so that was the closest I ever got. So, yeah, you need to.

1:20:34 Speaker 4: Come out here and spend some time. We can take into some pretty interesting places.

1:20:38 Speaker 2: Hell yeah, so yeah, U a p P d uh u a P dash PD dot com. Uh, thank you for everyone for tuning in. Uh and we'll see you on the other side.

1:21:00 Speaker 1: An A

1:21:27 Speaker 4: Type A tepid