Dark Matter, Information Collapse & the Coming Tech Singularity- Jason Jorjani

0:07 Speaker 1: All right, Jason, Georgeohnny, thank you for coming in. Good to see you, brother.

0:09 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to see you again.

0:11 Speaker 1: Our last podcast was Bananas. We covered all kinds of crazy. What have you been up to, bro?

0:19 Speaker 2: Writing? Yeah, you know, I mean one of the few silver linings to being banned from academia, as it leaves you all your time to do writing.

0:26 Speaker 1: That's right, that's the convenience of being a Nazi massad agent.

0:30 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, go figure. You're accused of being defamed in both of those ways simultaneously. Right, never had any dealings with Nazis as far as I'm aware. Did meet with probably four different Mosat agents, but I never accepted their offer for sheckles, so I'm a free agent.

0:51 Speaker 1: So what kind of stuff have you been writing?

0:54 Speaker 2: Well, my latest book is Setanion, which has a lot on the simulation theory in it that we'll get into. And then the latest one, the cover is up there in the background. It's called metapallemos, which is a Greek word, ancient Greek word meaning super struggle or meta war and or uber kamff in German metapallemos. And that one is an overview of my entire philosophical project divided into the domains of ontology, epistemology, ethics, aesthetics, and politics. So it summarizes my whole philosophical project in terms of different domains of philosophy.

1:39 Speaker 2: And I wrote it to be a kind of companion volume to Philosophy of the Future, which I brought you last time. This one is an overview of my work in terms of the original concepts that I've developed. Philosophy the Future was and this one Metapallemos is in terms of the different domains of philosophical thought. So there are kind of good companion volumes or one another, and they're either a really good introduction to my work as a whole or a kind of executive summary.

2:06 Speaker 1: What is the general idea of the Satanian?

2:12 Speaker 2: The general idea of Satani? Well, the term means the aon of Satan, the aon of Satan, or the aon of Satana, And so I'm playing with this term Satana. It's the name of a I guess you could call her a goddess. Really she's more a titanus. You know, there was this distinction between the gods and the titans, which you see in Greek culture. You see it in ancient Hindu culture as well, with the Devas and the Ashuras. Satana is a Titanus who was conceived of as the mother of the gorguns. You know Medusa.

2:50 Speaker 2: So these these uh snake haired feminine deities they were called, come from Medea, right, Well, No, Medea was the chief priestess of them.

3:03 Speaker 1: They were like her minions.

3:05 Speaker 2: She was a witch who basically did the most institutionalize and organize the cult of these gorgons, and the chief gorgon, the kind of mother of the covin of gorguns, is Satana. This was a cult that existed in the Caucasus going back to probably at least one thousand BC. And what's interesting about first of all, the name originally Satana in an Old Iranian language, it means mother of a hundred because she was believed to be the initiatrix of heroes. She would take these champions under the Caspian Sea into what was believed to be an underwater city, and she would train them and initiate them and confer a broad sword on them and also potentially allow them to look into this grail that she was the keeper of.

4:00 Speaker 2: So much much later, like fifteen hundred years eighteen hundred years later, this mythos would eventually make its way into Europe together with the migration of the Scythian and Sarmatian people, and it would become what's known as the Arthurian mythos in Europe, where this figure Satana becomes the lady of the lake, and then you know Arthur King Arthur becomes the archetypal hero who is initiated by this grail mistress and who's given the broadsword and so forth. So the mythos of Satana is the most primordial form of what later becomes the Arthurian Grail mysticism of Europe, of Gothic Europe and Celtic Europe.

4:41 Speaker 2: And it's brought there by these Caucasian Iranian people, these Northern Iranian people called the Scythians and Sarmatians. The Greeks also called the Sarmatians Amazons. Their whole legends about the warrior women come from this culture because they had female warriors. In fact, I mean there were arguably a matriarchal culture with female rulers and female warriors. Very unusual culture because they also I think we're the first people to invent iron warfare implements and chain mail armor. In any case, they worshiped this figure Satana, and round about I think seven eight hundred BC, they mass invaded the Middle East, and it said they went all the way up to Egypt.

5:30 Speaker 2: So I've made an argument in some of my work that the heat, what we believe is the Hebrew term Satan has Satan the adversary probably comes from this Satana in origin because the serpent symbolism associated with Satan from the Book of Genesis onward in various aesthetic representations, has a distinctly female connotation, like the serpent, and Eden was depicted in female form often throughout the history of art, and the serpents are of course associated with the gorgons. They have serpents in their hair right, which is really as a reference to the fact that viper venom was used in this cult.

6:15 Speaker 2: So the title comes from that. Okay, it's a play on the cult of Satana. But the way I use this from the opening chapter onward is in terms of the contemporary debate over whether the UFO phenomenon is demonic. So you have these colins, elite people who think that you know, either angels or more probably demons or what the whole Colins Elite, the Colins Elite, the Colins Elite. I think we got into this briefly the last time I was here. But some people think that the Colins Elite was an unofficial interagency organization with representation from the CIA, the Air Force, and various other military intelligence organizations that was formed.

7:02 Speaker 2: They think. Some people argue, like Nick Redfern, I think in his book on what was that book called.

7:09 Speaker 1: Is Tucker Carlson a part of the Collins Elite?

7:13 Speaker 2: You say that, you say that you know probably more than half jokingly. No, I don't think Tucker's part of the Collins Elite, but I think that they've gotten to his head. I think that these are the people who put this in Tucker Carlson's head, and he's been talking to too many of these folks. So anyway, some people think they were formed in nineteen forty seven to basically between forty five and forty seven to spy on Jack Parsons and investigate what Jack Parsons, the occultist and rocket scientists, was doing, you know, with l Ron Hubbard and others in the middle of the Western desert, right, I have argued.

7:50 Speaker 1: They had a spot in Florida. They were working on some stuff, didn't.

7:52 Speaker 2: They They were all over the place. Yeah, matter of fact, I think it was in Florida that Hubbard, you know, the founder of Scientology of course, stole parsons yacht and his girlfriend.

8:03 Speaker 1: What.

8:03 Speaker 2: I think that was off the coast of Florida that he did that. Yeah, so had a bad falling in.

8:07 Speaker 1: I told you right that that the flag building for Scientology, they are primary headquarters where he parked his yacht is like ten twenty minutes from here.

8:15 Speaker 2: I think that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he used this as his launching point for his various off the radar activities in the oceans of the world later in his life. Right, yeah, So anyway, but let's not go into Hubbard Land.

8:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's not. So.

8:31 Speaker 2: Some people think it was formed in forty seven to investigate Parsons and so forth. But I actually argue in Satanion that the Collins Elite probably goes back to the eighteen ninety six eighteen ninety seven airship mystery, where there was this patent attorney who claimed to represent the inventors of the mystery airships, and this guy's name was Collins, and look, I don't want to be one of these guys who says this thing every time. And I think we did discuss this last time. But very long story short in a nutshell, this patent attorney, George Collins, gave an extensive testimony to the San Francisco Chronicle, and I think it was eighteen ninety seven about you know, what these airships were, how they were going to be publicly declared, you know, the company was going to publicly declare itself on the stock exchange and come forth with this technology and all this.

9:24 Speaker 2: And then like three days later, the San Francisco Chronicle got back to him and wanted to have another conversation with him, at which point he said, I don't remember saying any of that stuff to you. And it turned out that he gave this entire testimony in a trance state. So this George Collins was possessed and delivered the story. And then it turned out that the supposed airship inventor was some dentists who invented dental bridges, who had dreamed of building airships from his childhood. So this paranormal angle starts to emerge in the story where you wonder, you know, are these airships sit kick projections of some kind?

10:02 Speaker 2: Are people's perceptions being manipulated? And I think from that time onward is when the FEDS got involved and started to develop theories about what kind of diabolical intelligence might actually be behind this phenomenon.

10:17 Speaker 1: This reminds me, Steve. Can you pull up my Twitter page real quick? I want to show you this photo I found of Jacques Vala last night. I think it's very appropriate. Just go to x and just go to my account page. There's a whole article about it too.

10:33 Speaker 2: You know, I knew Jaquevalle at one point.

10:35 Speaker 1: That's not that. That's it right there, that's what you were saying last time. Scroll down, scroll down, right there, up right, click that photo. Look at that Jacques Lay with Aleister Crowley.

10:48 Speaker 2: Oh wow, No, that's Anton LaVey.

10:50 Speaker 1: That's what I meant. That's what I meant, lost, what I meant. Jacques Vla and Anton Lavay.

10:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. First of all, they both lived in San Francisco, right And yeah it doesn't.

11:01 Speaker 1: See Apparently they would have dinner parties and play Donkey Kong together.

11:05 Speaker 2: Donkey Kong.

11:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the article says. Well, but that's fascinating because Jacques Valle always talks about how you know, he seems to be hyper interested in the whole angels and demon stuff.

11:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the opening line of Satanion, the first chapter is called diabolical Disclosure, and the opening line is how does one disclose the devil? That is without ending the world? Yeah, and it comes back to this idea that the Collins elite see themselves as holding back the apocalypse because they think that if these phenomena are predominantly demonic, disclosing that would mean disclosing the Antichrist, which would then precipitate the Second Coming or accelerate the second coming. So they think they're somehow doing the world a favor by maintaining the secrecy regarding the phenomenon, because it's essentially buying us time and holding back the end of the world.

12:01 Speaker 2: So I play with that idea at the opening of my first chapter in Satanian.

12:05 Speaker 1: So these people are religious types, they soonetically religious fanatics. Yeah, from the air force has to be maintaining this worldview or this view of the phenomena.

12:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think that probably in you know, going back to maybe forty seven or the nineteen fifties, they've been recruited from among evangelicals or traditionalist Catholics. But if you go back probably to the eighteen ninety late eighteen nineties with the airship mystery, I don't know whether they started out that way or whether they were spooked into having these kinds of beliefs. Right. Look, think about it this way, Danny. If airships that look like constructions from out of Jules Verne sci fi novels are showing up not just in the sky over tens of states, but they're landing in people's fields, and sheriffs and judges are coming up to these things and touching them and interact with the airship pilots.

13:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, if it turns out that those things aren't real, meaning they're not constructed objects, there's some kind of a projection, whether it's a psychokinetic projection like a material what they call materialization in psychical research, or whether it's some kind of a solid hologram. In any case, as a gentleman in the eighteen nineties or frankly even you know, this would be how most people today would read it. In America, you would probably consider that a diabolical deception, a machination of the devil right to engage in the manipulation of perception on that kind of scale.

13:41 Speaker 2: People tend to associate that with I don't know, you know, satanic deception.

13:47 Speaker 1: Oh my god, seems silly.

13:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the prisms through which many people and institutions look at this phenomena are silly or simple minded, right, and danger.

14:00 Speaker 1: So, m all right, we were going to talk about the moon.

14:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's go to the moon, because what's so interesting?

14:07 Speaker 1: First of all, what made you start to pay attention to the moon?

14:19 Speaker 2: You know, I think this is a good place to start. It was the start of my interest in it in a serious way. And it's actually a good place, a good trajectory by which to go to the moon. And that's that. I paid close attention to Stephen Greer's disclosure project back when he was first starting it up in the nineteen I think it was the late nineteen nineties, A long time ago.

14:40 Speaker 1: I think it was like ninety three or something. It was.

14:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have become aware of it in the mid to late nineties. Okay, so we're talking when I was like seventeen sixteen, seventeen years old. From early on I paid attention to the testimony that he amassed from all of these people who have been involved with the military, with defense contractors.

15:00 Speaker 1: Do you believe all the stuff that he says?

15:03 Speaker 2: Short answer, no.

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16:39 Speaker 2: But look, I think in the case of Stephen Greer, and maybe we can come back around to this because I saw parts of your show with him. In the case of Stephen Geer, you have to draw some very significant distinctions between the testimony he's getting from people who served in sensitive positions in the military industrial complex versus his interpretation of those testimonies, which is being filtered through his own worldview and ideology and then furthermore his own personal experiences. Because Greer came out, like, what was it twenty years ago saying he himself was a contactee I think from childhood and he started doing these CE five like protocols for summoning entities and so forth.

17:21 Speaker 2: Right, So there's a great deal of difference between those kinds of claims versus amassing testimony from basically expert witnesses, right, And I find the you know, the stuff he did early on to be much more convincing and much more solid.

17:40 Speaker 1: The whole the origin story of being an er doctor to all of a sudden getting a call to go to dinner with the head of the CIA seems a little suspect to me.

17:48 Speaker 2: I don't know, But I'll tell you what I found very interesting about some of that early testimony. There was this one case and here we're going to get into a case of murder. Also, there was this one case of this I think he was sergeant, yeah, sergeant Carl Wolf, who, although he wasn't fairly high ranking, I mean, you know, This is how compartmentalized information works in the military. You can be relatively low ranking person, but if you have technical expertise in a particular area, you have to be given a high level security clearance because you need to work on some technical aspect of a very sensitive subject.

18:29 Speaker 2: So in the case of Carl Wolf, he was a photographic technician and repairman, and I think it was a nineteen sixty five so a few years before we went to the Moon, right, We've got the lunar reconnaissance orbiter going around the Moon preparing for the Apollo mission, and Carl Wolf is called in in his capacity as a photo technician photographic repairman. He's called into what they told was an NSSA facility, and I think he was stationed on Langley Air Force Base at the time, and they say, you know, we need you to come over to this NSSA facility and work on this photographic processing machine.

19:14 Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty five, nobody knew what the fuck the NESSA was. It was so secret that people didn't even know it existed. So Wolfe assumed that it was a NASA facility. He heard NSSA as NASA, and it also makes sense in terms of what he saw when he got there, which is that when he walked in to this place, first of all, he saw scientists from all around the world, and he could tell because they were of various ethnicities. He saw Japanese people, Indian people, people from multiple countries speaking multiple languages, European languages.

19:49 Speaker 2: Showed a few Germans in there, probably more than a few. And so he's taken into the photo lab, right, and there's another guy in there who's the same rank as I think, also a sergeant. And before he gets to work on repairing this machine, this sergeant and the two of them are in there alone. Right, this sergeant can't help himself and he breaks protocol and he shows Carl Wolf the photographs that have been coming off this machine he was brought into repair. And they're mosaic photographs, where you know, they take the orbiter will take a bunch of images, a bunch of shots, and then they'll lay them next to each other and form a mosaic of a larger site that's been targeted for satellite photography.

20:37 Speaker 2: Right, And the sergeant says, we found a city, and he starts showing him these mosaics, putting them next to each other, and they're high resolution photographs of a megalithic city on the dark side of the moon, Spherical buildings, polygonal buildings, obelisks like the you know needle in Egypt,

21:03 Speaker 2: and dishes. He said, like that looked like you know, radio telescope dishes, huge structures, which I guess the resolution of the photographs was so good that he could tell that they weren't made of metal. They were made of something like a poured stone, kind of like concrete, which is interesting because a lot of ancient sites on Earth are made from that type of material. Right, these enigmatic megalithic structures on Earth seemed to have a similar construction as will Carl Wolf at least what was what was you know, presented to him as a city on the dark side of the moon.

21:39 Speaker 2: And so he's looking at this thing and he then then the basically the somebody walked in and so the sergeant cuts off his uh, you know, cuts off this you know, illegally volunteering this classified information to Wolf, and he goes to work repairing the photography machine. But anyway, he said, he went home and he expected that either that night or like sometime in the next week or sometime in the next year, we would hear about this city that had been photographed on the dark side of the moon, and of course it was never revealed.

22:14 Speaker 2: Right, So this was one of the most striking early testimonies that I heard from out of Greer's disclosure project that got me really interested in the moon. And what's really creepy is sixty sixty what sixty five sixty few years before Apollo. And what's really disturbing is that this disclosure wave that we're in the midst of right now began in twenty seventeen, right with that New York Times piece. So round about twenty eighteen there are serious discussions about subpoenaing people to get testimony from them.

22:51 Speaker 2: And then later than that Grush Now you know, spearheaded this initiative to have people come and testify in front of Congress and release individuals from the security odes. Right. Well, guess when uh, poor Carl Wolf met with an untimely end. Twenty eighteen, one year after disclosure starts. His bike was run over by a truck.

23:15 Speaker 1: How old was he?

23:17 Speaker 2: Young? I mean relative?

23:18 Speaker 1: Can you find? Can you find the story of Carl Wolf?

23:20 Speaker 2: He might have been in his fifties or something. Wow, And I mean this is what happened to John Mack too. This is how they murdered John Mack. They had him run over on the road.

23:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, but isn't it Yeah, I understand that that's sketchy about John Mack. But do you think it's Do you think it's probable that that he was whacked?

23:38 Speaker 2: Wasn't? Oh? Yeah, I do think so. I do think so. He was seventy four years old.

23:44 Speaker 1: He was seventy four year old. Well he was.

23:48 Speaker 2: He was a good enough shape that he was riding his bike regularly.

23:51 Speaker 1: Can you click on it page?

23:57 Speaker 2: No, just search Carl Wolf with a K. Oh, it's not this one. No, Well it has a correct underneath there.

24:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I see Carl Wolf with a K claim to have top secret NASA photos showing alien structures on the Moon. He works with a tactical Air command at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and had top secret clearance in twenty Okay, in two thousand and one, Wolf made a startling claim that NASA was hiding evidence of artificial structures on the far side of the Moon. He died in a bike accident October tenth, twenty eighteen in New York after being hit by a tractor trailer.

24:32 Speaker 2: So I think it's awfully convenient that just when people are going to be subpoena to testify under oath and released from their security clearances, this guy gets has an accident. Okay, so let's go further down this path to the moon.

24:50 Speaker 1: Quick little sure qui quick quick question. Don't want to derail this ye, but have you heard of a guy named hal Pobenmeyer? Okay?

24:58 Speaker 2: Continue, Okay, So well, they had these photographs, right, those photographs went somewhere. I mean there was a whole room full of international scientists that Carl Wolf ran into on his way to repair that machine. So these photographs went somewhere. Well, guess what these photographs show up again later in the history of military intelligence. In the nineteen seventies, when Ingo Swan started to work for the Stanford Research Institute on contract for the CIA, some guy who identified himself as Lambert Dolphin, which is probably a pseudonym or code name.

25:35 Speaker 2: This Lambert Dolphin basically he pulled Ingo Swan from out of the unit that he was working with, this unit that was basically a CIA unit, right, So this Lambert Dolphin, whoever he was, and Swan was never able to figure out what outfit in the US government this guy was really working for. He had the authority to take a CIA asset out of the CIA remote viewing program and put him on another task, and Swan was blindfolded. He was flown in a helicopter to a classified facility. It was one of these deep underground facilities, and he recounts having gone down in an elevator, like Lord knows how deep this is.

26:15 Speaker 2: In Swan's book Penetration. So Swan says, he goes down there and they want his, you know, talent as a remote viewer, and they start targeting him, you know, on these photographs that are inside envelopes, and he basically starts describing the Moon. But he's standing in the middle of a nexus of roads inside a city on the Moon, and he describes these gargantuan buildings, huge Titanic scale of construction. He sees the same obelisks that Carl Wolf describes, you know, like the needles in ancient Egypt.

26:55 Speaker 2: And he said, by the way, I got the impression that those were purely ceremonial. They didn't have any particular function. But he saw other buildings that looked like reactor domes, like as if they were you know, nuclear power plants or something like that, and receiving dishes and antennas and so forth. So he describes this Titanic city, and you know, it stands to reason that whatever was in those envelopes were probably the photographs that were taken by the orbiter back in sixty five before Apollo, the photographs that Carl Wolf had reported seeing while he was repairing that machine.

27:31 Speaker 2: Wow, so now you have a second point of confirmation. Now here's the really creepy thing, Denny. What else Ngoswan saw on the dark side of the Moon were masses of people huddled together in ramshackle shelters, people who were naked and who were being used as slave labor. This is what he said. He said that. And now the fact that they were naked and apparently breathing while working inside craters on the moon, who knows, maybe mining helium three or whatever, suggests that there was some kind of an artificial atmosphere that maybe where they were working was underneath a transparent dome that wasn't visible to Swan.

28:15 Speaker 2: But in any case, that's not the important point. The important point and the disturbing one is that he saw slave labor on the moon, and the people who were directing it were these tall Nordic looking fellows, one of whom could see Swan. And this has been reported by other remote viewers where sometimes when they're sent to a target, whether it's a contemporaneous target or whether it's some event in the past, they're witnessed by whoever's there, as if like they're a ghost and those people are seeing a ghost.

28:48 Speaker 2: Well, this Nordic on the dark side of the moon saw Swan, and he got the distinct impression like the guy was telling him telepathically, why the fuck are you here? You don't belong here, Get out of it here. Interesting, okay, Now that fits with something else that I was told. I was told this by an officer in the CIA who had read my book Closer Encounters, and he had he wanted to have a conversation with me because he told me that basically, when was this. This was in

29:21 Speaker 2: two years ago, two and a half years ago. This is his college.

29:23 Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I worked for the CIA. Can we talk?

29:25 Speaker 2: He knew someone I know? Okay, And he got in touch through that person and he anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but long story short, he was like, how did you put all these jigsaw puzzle pieces together? He was looking to see if there was a leak and whether it needed to be plugged.

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31:28 Speaker 2: Because he said that there were too many things in my book that were the same conclusions that they had reached based on having access to classified information. And he was wondering, how the hell I put these same pieces together in the same way. But this moon stuff all kinds of things the subjects that I discussed, and you know this book Closer Encounters, okay, and but the moon came up among other things, and he said, listen. After Swan was sent, we kept sending people to the moon remote viewers, and we distinctly got the message from these guys on the moon, do not keep sending people here.

32:09 Speaker 2: This is off limits. And we didn't listen to them. And the last viewer that we sent up there, his soul is trapped on the moon. His body is in a coma in a special medical facility run by the CIA, and his family has been given like medical compensation or whatever. They told him that they told his family that the guy had died in the line of duty or whatever, and he's been held in stasis for years and years as they wait for his soul to come back from the Moon, where apparently there's the capacity to lure and trap somebody's consciousness, which they finally did to one of these CIA remote viewers after repeatedly telling them not to surveil whatever is going on up there.

33:00 Speaker 1: Guy on here named David Morehouse. Oh yeah, yeah, he was a psyche. He was a remote viewer, a part of the as. He was a part of these programs for a long time. I think it was in the seventies.

33:09 Speaker 2: I read his book Psychic Warriors.

33:10 Speaker 1: Psychic Warrior, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he said that he remote viewed the Moon and there was nothing. He's like, it's all bullshit, there's nobody there.

33:21 Speaker 2: I don't know whether he was being blocked or what, but I can tell you some other things about the moon that are much creepier than a city on the dark side of it.

33:27 Speaker 1: Well, and here's nothing. If there was a city, why is it only on the dark side.

33:31 Speaker 2: Well, because that side faces away from us all the time.

33:34 Speaker 1: So because built it doesn't want us to see it.

33:36 Speaker 2: Of course, of course that's the convenient place to put it. There's also another reason that's technical, which is that if you if you put you know, we've been studying this in terms of potential lunar colonization. That if you put listening telescopes, you know, like the Aracibo dish. Yeah, stuff that's meant to convey signals across space. If you put it on the side of the Moon that faces the Earth, there's too much interference with radio signals coming from the Earth. So if you want to have basically interspace communication from the Moon to elsewhere, it's better to put something on the side that always faces away from us, so that you're not bombarded with radio signals that are being transmitted from the Earth.

34:20 Speaker 2: That's a technical reason why you would do it, but mainly I think it's you know, for concealment purposes, okay, But the story of what's going on on the Moon is a lot more It's a lot more startling than finding a city on the dark side of it, right, because you could be dealing with a natural satellite that has been colonized at who knows what time by whatever spacefaring civilization. No, it looks like it looks like there's a much more disturbing scenario here, and you know, our government became aware of this during Apollo twelve and thirteen.

35:02 Speaker 2: During Apollo twelve, I think it was the lander that impacted the Moon in a way that set off a seismometer that had been prepositioned there. There was a seismograph that was prepositioned on the Moon, and when the Apollo twelve lander hit the surface of the Moon,

35:24 Speaker 2: the signal that came from this seismograph was consistent with the ringing or vibration of a hollow object. So the way that the shockwave passed through the Moon suggested that there was very little inside the Moon. It rang like a bell, as they described it, for a while, right in the first case, it was for almost an hour. So then they got curious about this, and in Apollo thirteen they deliberately crashed the third stage of Apollo thirteen into the surface of the Moon to carry out a test to see whether this was a repeatable phenomenon, right, And this time the seismograph not only confirmed the resonance passing through a hollow object, but the moon rang like a bell for three hours, so and they were able to tell, like, how much more or less of the moon, you know, is apparently hollow.

36:26 Speaker 2: And it's really shocking. It's like the moon goes down for about twenty miles as a solid structure, and then on the inside there's a distance of about one thousand miles radially, one thousand miles from the interior of the shell to the core radially in every direction. In other words, the distance between Los Angeles and Seattle, or New York and Saint Louis, or Paris and Prague is hollow inside the moon.

37:02 Speaker 1: There was a recent NASA article that came out I think it was on the NASA website where they said they discovered caves like underground caverns in the moon, which would suggest that it was like maybe like a honeycomb structure on the inside or something like that.

37:16 Speaker 2: I suspect that it's not natural caverns, but that what they're seeing are the hollows between all kinds of complex machinery that are inside that structure. One of the other things that they noted with these impact tests was that the moon sort of it seemed to compensate and correct for the impact in a way that suggested there were oscillators inside the structure. So I think probably there's machinery inside this thing. Now, another data point that corroborates that, going back to the remote viewers, is that Joe mcmonagall was tasked with remote viewing Mars in nineteen eighty four, and this was a CIA operation run at the Monroe Institute.

38:08 Speaker 2: So it was a CIA. He was working on contract for the CIA, and this was done at the Monroe Institute.

38:14 Speaker 1: He was the first remote viewer, right, I think.

38:16 Speaker 2: He might have been, well, no, I think Ingo Swan was the first. But I think he had the designations zero zero one or something like that.

38:24 Speaker 1: One. Maybe it was two, I don't know.

38:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, But in any case, in nineteen eighty four Monroe Institute. And this has since been released. This is one of these classified documents that has since been declassified. It's called like Mars one million BC. You can look it up Joe mcmonagall.

38:41 Speaker 1: Mars one million BC.

38:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe mcmonagall. And so look, Joe mcmonagall is tasked to look at He doesn't know, of course, he's working blind to the target. That's how re viewing is, right. But what's inside these envelopes are the photographs that the Viking probe took on Mars in nineteen seventy six where we got back these images of the pyramids and the fort and the face infamously right, So there are all these apparent man made megalithic structures in the Sodonia region of Mars which were first photographed by the Viking mission in nineteen seventy six.

39:29 Speaker 2: And that's what was inside these envelopes when mcmonagall was doing this remote viewing session and he described being in the midst of the ruins of a megalithic city with gigantic pyramids. He said, they seemed like they were maybe three times the size of the Great Pyramid in Giza.

39:50 Speaker 1: Wow. And he described part of the Stargate project.

39:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. He described a maze of structures under these pyramids, like subterranean tunnels and hallways. At one point he walks through one of these hallways and it leads to an opening and he finds himself on the outside of the pyramid, looking up at it, looking up across the face of the pyramid. And he describes also these these highways that are trenches. They are these perfectly geometric trenches cut across miles and miles of Mars's surface, And he said his impression was that they were used for a craft like, you know, there are bad storms on Mars, right, so if you hadt hovercars or whatever, you would want them to be transitting through something that had high walls on either side that was a you know, sunken channel based sandstorm.

40:50 Speaker 2: Avoid a sandstorm passing over the top of your heads. So this is basically he describes this, okay during his remote viewing session, but he says, look, the civilization is long dead. I'm seeing, you know, the ruins of a civilization that once was eons before this. And he was tasked at one million BC. So they said to him, okay, so go back to when these people were still alive and thriving. And he goes way way back. Now we can infer from another data point that I'll come to you know how far back he went, but he doesn't say in the session, but he goes back to when these people were around, and then he describes Nordic looking, super tall people in skin tight jumpsuits, people people who look like Scandinavians, except he said they had more like a I don't know, like between an Olympic swimmer and a football player's physique, with very broad shoulders, not an ounce of body fat.

41:51 Speaker 2: He said he could see all their musculature through their skin tight suits. And what mcmonagh relates is that these people were facing the end of their civilization, and some of them had this what he describes as a very philosophical sense of resignation, where they were like, well, we had our time. It's you know, it's not fair for us to ask for more time. We've had more time than we should have had some of them, and some of them are still trying to survive and endure. And the ones who are trying to survive, he says, they've looked for a way out, and no matter what they do, they can't seem to find a way out.

42:35 Speaker 2: To just pin that somewhere right then, he says, they designed and got into a spacecraft that was cylindrical and which is very much the description of a lot of these cylinder shaped, cigar shaped UFOs metallic cigar shaped craft. And they went to another planet which they were scouting out to see whether it was a viable world for them to relocate too. And this other planet was. It was nothing like Mars. It was very green, overgrown with vegetation in fact, but there were constant storms on it, electrical storms, typhoons.

43:14 Speaker 2: There was a lot of volcanic activity on this planet. And they basically concluded that they couldn't settle there without altering the planet without terraforming it in some way to make it more habitable.

43:29 Speaker 1: So this is a long conversation to have during our remote view.

43:34 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so they got all this out of him, right, I think those are all the important points and very detailed. Yes. So now you put this next to what doctor John Brandenburg discovered regarding Mars. Doctor Brandenburg, who I got to spend a few days with in New Mexico a number of years ago. He worked on the Clementine mission for NASA, and at one point he was working at Sandia, which is where I think a lot of the nuclear weapons are designed, and he was looking at isotopic data from Mars. So you know, every planet has, you know, certain amount of isotopes of different materials and metals and so forth on it.

44:20 Speaker 2: And apparently the isotopic ratio of Xenon one nine is consistent across the entire Solar System except for on Mars and our thermonuclear test sites on Earth. There's a deviation from the norm of the isotopic signature of Xenon one twenty nine at our thermonuclear test sites on Earth, and we find the same thing at Sedonia on Mars.

44:48 Speaker 1: Why is it different on nuclear test sites.

44:51 Speaker 2: There's something happens when and it has to be not an atomic bomb, but a thermonuclear bomb. When a thermonuclear bomb is detonated, that leaves trace of xenon one twenty nine in that area, which is not the normal basically distribution of that isotope that you would find, you know, on Earth or on any of the other rocky bodies in the Solar System. And according to Brandenburg, it's the very distinct signature, it's unmistakable, and it's very specifically associated with thermonuclear weapons detonation.

45:24 Speaker 2: Then after, you know, he discussed this with one of the scientists of Sandia Labs whose expertise is working on nuclear weapons. He checked for other isotopes and he saw that the isotopes of the isotopic ratio of thorium and uranium was also off at Sodonia in a way that matched thermonuclear test sites. And so he came to the conclusion that and even did the math, like how many nukes would you have had to detonate in this place to produce this kind of a deviation. Turns out that an empire state building's worth of our highest deealed.

46:03 Speaker 2: Thermonuclear warheads would have had to have been detonated there to produce this kind of isotopic signature. And this is exactly the same place where we find these blasted megalithic structures on the surface of Mars.

46:16 Speaker 1: So there's a nuclear war on Mars.

46:17 Speaker 2: So Brandenburg's thesis is that there was a nuclear war on Mars. I covered this in my book Closer Encounters.

46:23 Speaker 1: And did that basically get rid of the atmosphere? Is that responsible for how like the atmosphere is almost non existent on me?

46:29 Speaker 2: We would definitely have been a contributing factor. I want to come around to what I think might have been another factor in that. Okay, but definitely we've been a contributing factor. But we were on about the moon. So why am I going on this on this this detour to Mars Because it's when you put Brandenburgh's research next to what Joe mcmonagall saw. And by the way, while we're on this subject, Ingo Swan was also tasked independently of Joe mcmonagall to look at Mars twice. Once was in nineteen seventy six, I think, and the other was in nineteen eighty four.

47:09 Speaker 2: Same year that mcmonagall did his, but Swan's team and mcmonagall were unaware of each other. These were, obviously this makes sense his protocol. They wanted two sets of remote viewers on the same target to get you know, corroboration, and Swan did his with the whole team of people. Mcmonagall worked alone at the Monroe Institute. Swan had like five or six people working with him. And in nineteen eighty four and also in the viewing and I think seventy six or so ingo, Swan and his team described exactly the same thing as John mcmonagall.

47:41 Speaker 2: They described a civilization on Mars, most of which was in ruins and was vastly ancient, but other parts of which still survived under the surface. He described the honeycomb of cities under the surface of Mars, and some structures on the surface which were like relaying information and being used as transportation beacons and had been built by this civilization that is still active under the surface of Mars, cities that are subterranean. So so okay, But this all came from out of discussing the moon.

48:17 Speaker 2: When you put the remote viewing data next to Brandenburg's thesis, what it suggests oh and Brandenburg. His estimation was that this nuclear event in Sodonia took place maybe one hundred million years ago, maybe one hundred million years ago. Jesus, when were the dinosaurs killed off? Sixty five sixty five million years ago? Right, So it's a ballpark. And when you put these two sets of data together, as I did in my book Closer Encounters, the conclusion that emerges is that the Moon was constructed by these survivors of some kind of apocalypse on Mars, and it probably had at least two functions initially.

49:01 Speaker 2: One was to transport a shit ton of people over here the Moon, and the other one was to act as a terraforming device. So if we didn't have the Moon where it is in this extremely stable orbit that it's in, right, yes, we would have eight hour days. The Earth would be spinning much faster than it is right now. The Earth would also not be as stable as it is. There's been calculations done that show that the Earth would be prone to toppling over at you know, at odd intervals. Well, all planets have moons, right, yes, but only our moon stabilizes a planet to the extent, you know, only our Moon stabilizes our planet in the way that it does, and only our moon has as stable an orbit as it does, and none of the other moons in the Solar System create the beautiful eclipses that we have here because the moon, the Moon is get this one four hundredth the size of the Sun, and it's one four hundredth the distance to the Sun.

50:10 Speaker 2: So the fact that it's one four hundredth the size of the Sun and one four hundredth distance of the Sun produces this perfect decline.

50:16 Speaker 1: Put the Moon directly between us and the Sun. It perfectly occludes the diameter of the Sun. Exactly are there Do we know if there's any other No.

50:24 Speaker 2: There's no other moon that produces none. But what's even more significant is that our moon has an extremely stable orbit. No other moon in the Solar System orbit orbits its planet with as little deviation as our moon does. Yes, and so it appears there's something inside the Moon stabilizing that orbit, which is also stabilizing the Earth. And what did it give us? It gave us a climate and environment, a biosphere that rendered this planet habitable for humans. Remember what mcmonagall said. He said, they sent a scout chip to another planet.

50:59 Speaker 2: It was overgrown with vegetation. It wasn't arod like Mars. There were volcanoes going off, there were electrical storms, and they were like, this place is too volatile. We can't settle here the way that it is now. So the Moon was probably used in order to terraform the Earth into a habitat that humans could humans martians could settle in to become the human race. So, now there are other pieces of data we're talking about.

51:27 Speaker 1: We're talking about roughly how long ago, one hundred million.

51:30 Speaker 2: One hundred to sixty five million years ago. Now, look,

51:34 Speaker 2: the dinosaurs would probably have had to have been killed off for this, right, So one you know, hypothesis that follows from this is that the impact that killed off the dinosaurs was deliberate, not you know, some accidental asteroid impact. It wouldn't have been very easy to coexist with them, right right, Okay, But look, there are other data points that really nail this case. For example, the craters on them. On Earth, when you have impact craters from meteorites, for example, right, the craters are roughly proportionally deep as they are wide.

52:10 Speaker 2: They dig into the earth. On the Moon, you have these utterly bizarre craters which are like over one hundred miles wide, like the Gregaron crater or the Clavius crater. You could fit Switzerland and Luxembourg together inside some of these craters. They're over one hundred miles wide. They're never more than four or five miles deep. That doesn't make any sense. The inside of these crater basins are all convex, like the surface of a contact lens. So think about this, Why would a meteor impact meteorite impact produce a crater that's so much wider than it is deep.

52:51 Speaker 2: And then in the specially wide craters like Clavius, you see that the surface of that crater is convex. It's because it's hitting a hard shell that's underneath the regolith, and the regolith is like AstroTurf that's been put on the surface of that space station to make it look like it's a moon.

53:12 Speaker 1: They knew the Earth was there. It was too volatile, too unstable. I'm sure the equinox is not as stable as it is now.

53:20 Speaker 2: There wasn't any we didn't have seasons. That's a product of the moon.

53:25 Speaker 1: The equinox is only because of the moon.

53:27 Speaker 2: This twenty three degree deviation that we have between the our equator and the celestial equator, right, that produces the equinoxes and the solstices as a function of the Moon.

53:40 Speaker 1: What other things about the moon like other than like we mentioned the distance from the Sun to the Moon and how it perfectly occludes the side of the Sun from our perspective, But like, what other things about our moon are exclusive.

53:56 Speaker 2: To So first of all, there's the extremely bizarre ratio that you just mentioned right, where this one four hundred size of the Sun one four hundredth distance from the Sun, and that's what produces these eclipses. Then there's an incredible stability of the orbit of the Moon. Then, as we mentioned, these craters don't make any sense, right, These craters don't make any sense, and the basin of them seems like it's revealing a shell of some kind, spherical shell. Then there's the impact tests, right the Apollo twelve and Apollo thirteen, where the Moon on a seismograph registered like a hollow object.

54:32 Speaker 2: And by the way, there's no moon that's a hollow object. Back before Carl Sagan became such a skeptic, he even commented on this and said that it's terrifying because no natural satellite is hollow.

54:45 Speaker 1: We know that no other moons are hollow.

54:47 Speaker 2: Yes, we know it moon. We know. It's just not what moons are. Moons are like. You know, they're like rocky bodies that are trapped by a planet and they're rocky all the way through.

54:57 Speaker 1: And do we know, do we observe the on other moons to see how similar they are to our moon or how different they are than our moon.

55:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have detailed like for example, Phobos and arab the moons of Mars with detailed images of them. And first it has two two moons, Saturn and Jupiter have a bunch. And you know the other thing about these moons are they're all weird shaped. They look like deformed potatoes, you know, a lot of them. They're not beautiful spherical objects like ours is. But there is another interesting thing and that's the mas cons. So there are these. You know, the Moon has a lower gravity than Earth generally, right, remember the golf ball thing, yep so, and the Apollo astronauts we'll get to them too, the Apollo astronauts hopping around, you know, in the lower But there are places on the Moon where there's a much stronger gravity.

55:46 Speaker 2: There's earth like gravity or stronger than earth like gravity, And it's actually a problem for navigation because when they pass satellites over, they can't fly too low because the craft will be pulled by these gravity wells. There are places on the Moon they call them mass cons mass concentrations where the gravity deviates from the standard on the Moon, and guess what, they're all perfectly circular. So one thing I hypothesized in closer encounters was that if this thing is a space station, it's possible that they built saucers into the surface of it.

56:27 Speaker 1: Look that mask ons short for mass concentrations, the regions of the Moon's surface with a higher gravitational pull than the surrounding areas. These anomalies were first identified in the nineteen sixties. Holy shit.

56:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have to compensate for those when they fly anything around the Moon. Anyway, Look, here's the thing.

56:43 Speaker 1: We got to make sure we just we gotta go. We gotta keep you on point yea, yeah, yeah, So we can't be just letting Georgeohn.

56:50 Speaker 2: The possibility is that when they built the space station, they built saucers into the surface of it. Remember, all the mascons are circular. A saucer is going to have a zero point energy drive generating into a lying saucer. Yeah, flying saucer is going to have a local gravitational field, and if there's people in the saucer, it's one g yes, which is greater gravity then the rest of the Moon. So one possibility is that what these mascons are are saucers embedded in the space station underneath the regolith as a potential evacuation protocol.

57:33 Speaker 2: Suppose there's a danger like some giant asteroid is coming that might hit the Earth or it might hit the Moon and they need to evacuate the station, right, Well, these saucers could just peel off the surface. So that's one possibility of what these mascons are are you know, saucers with zero point energy drives running embedded into the surface of the object.

57:52 Speaker 1: What do you make of the postgame press conference after the moon landing where all the astronants are sitting there, They look they look like they're on a hostage tape.

58:02 Speaker 2: This is where I want it to go next. We mentioned the astronaut right, so you know, these guys don't even remember what they did up.

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1:00:13 Speaker 2: Enhance your every day with Viya. When you ask them, they've done interviews with these astronauts, and when you ask them, you know, so what did you do on such and such a day, they basically rehearse a mission log, we did this, and then we no, no, no, I mean, how did you feel like when you were standing on the edge of that? And then they freeze up. They start to look ill and so, like you're saying in that press conference, right, they don't look like national heroes coming back from having been the first men on the moon.

1:00:45 Speaker 1: The hostages.

1:00:46 Speaker 2: They look like they've had the shit scared out of them or you know, yeah.

1:00:50 Speaker 1: So.

1:00:52 Speaker 2: I think that these people saw some terrifying things up there, and that's also what Soviet intelligence thought. In Timothy Good's BOOKO Above Top Secret, British UFO researcher, it was close to Admiral Norton. Admiral Lord Hill Norton, British Navy was one of the people who endorsed his Timothy Good's work, and in his book Above Top Secret, Timothy Good recounts a meeting between British intelligence and Soviet intelligence back during the Cold War, and the Soviets said, we were listening to the Medical Channel.

1:01:32 Speaker 2: During Apollo, they had a channel that they would use to report back, like medical emergencies things they didn't want the public to hear, a separate channel from the one that was being broadcast across television. And you know, unsurprisingly the KGB had found access they weren't supposed to. Even our Ham Yeah, even our Ham radio, our Ham radio operators were listening to this in America. Some Ham radio operators said that they were able to pick up on this too. So the Soviets said, we heard Armstrong and Paul eleven say, these babies are huge.

1:02:09 Speaker 2: They're huge, they're warning us off. They're on the edge of the crater. And there's this whole conversation on the medical channel about how the Apollo eleven astronauts were effectively assaulted and scared off by huge spacecraft on the Moon which were not there to greet them. They got the sense that they were there to say, get the hell out of here. So, you know, people have all these.

1:02:31 Speaker 1: Who's the person that said this? And this was it was somebody.

1:02:34 Speaker 2: It was a conversation between British intelligence, a British intelligence officer. You can find it in Timothy Goods book above. Top secret above. Yeah, and it was a British intelligence operative who during i think toward the end of the Cold War, was meeting with the Soviet counterpart, and the Soviets said, we have the record of this conversation between Armstrong and ground Control on the medical channel where they were saying they saw the now that would scare the shit out of you. Moreover, by nineteen sixty, by sixty nine seventy, they had already done this mk ultra stuff.

1:03:08 Speaker 2: Yes, right, so you think you think they wiped their memories, Yes, exactly, exactly, we had already done this mk ultra stuff, and I think these poor guys were mk ultraed when they came back to try to get them to forget as much of what happened on the Moon as possible, And that would also explain why they all wound up with dysfunctional lives. These guys all became alcoholics, their wives divorced them, all their lives, their personal lives became a disaster. So yeah, that's another piece of corroboration that you know, the moon is inhabited, and it's also probably an artificial satellite.

1:03:41 Speaker 1: And why haven't we been back since exactly exactly there was a We've watched this interview multiple times on previous podcasts where there is I think it's the head of NASA as being talked to. He's being interviewed in front of the Senate and they're talking about China, how they had a plan to map or explore the dark side of the Moon or whatever, and they asked him like, if we plan on doing it too, and he goes, now, we're not interested in doing that. We have no interest in the dark sight.

1:04:17 Speaker 2: What I find profoundly disturbing about that is that humiliation is the worst thing in Chinese culture, the worst thing. Okay, So the Chinese are not about to go up to the Moon and have their asses handed to them. Moreover, the Chinese are going to the Moon in collaboration and cooperation with the Russians. The Chinese and the Russians plan to build a space station that orbits the Moon and then send astronauts from the space station down to the surface of the Moon. Right, if there's that degree of cooperation between Russia and China on the Moon, it means the Soviet dossier has been handed over to the Chinese.

1:04:54 Speaker 2: Soviet Dosia, the Soviet dossier on the Moon. Oh okay, what's in that? Right? Everything the Americans encountered on the moon, which is why the Soviets never went to the moon. Remember, we were competing with Soviet Union to go to the moon. Why is it that we went up there? And then all the Soviets just decided to cancel their moon program. No, they knew, of course, they knew, they knew. And also there were discussions in the Soviet Union at that time that, okay, if America makes it to the Moon first, we'll go to Mars first.

1:05:26 Speaker 2: They figured it out. Neither are for the taking, neither the Moon nor Mars. So what's really disturbing about the Chinese initiative is that if the Chinese, of all people are planning to go up there, and I don't know, if not colonize, at least do some scientific research or whatever, right, it means they've gotten clearance.

1:05:51 Speaker 1: From the people that are there.

1:05:52 Speaker 2: That's right. That's right now. And notice how the balance of power is shifting in the world towards China.

1:06:00 Speaker 1: Is it really it is now a different opinions online.

1:06:04 Speaker 2: I don't know. Look, I mean it has been now whether that can be reversed as another question but if you wanted to manage a global totalitarian state, yes, with ubiquitous surveillance and then extremely technocratic form of government with little personal freedom right a control society on a global scale, the Chinese will be the optimal people to put in charge for that, because it fits the values of Confucianism. Yes, okay, So if someone on the Moon potentially also on Mars, wants to impose a totalitarian world government on Earth, they're not going to make a deal with the United States.

1:06:50 Speaker 2: They're going to make a deal with China. That's what I find most disturbing about Chinese plans to go to the Moon. I actually don't think we would even be going back there if it weren't for the fact that Chinese already are.

1:07:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, but okay, maybe, but who would they Who would they make the deal with in the United States. That's the thing. There's two parts of the United States. There's the idealistic view of the United States, and then there's the real people who are running the show behind the scenes, the United States, and they probably are very envious of China's totalitarian surveillance state that they live under.

1:07:24 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm not sure it's very easy to make these kinds of moral judgments. If I were in Lockheed at a high level with security clearance to the special programs that are dealing with zero point energy and electro grivitic drives, yeah, I'm not so sure that, considering the kind of society we have in this country, let alone in the world at large, I would publicly disclose that technology. I mean, we talked about this last time. I think the weaponization implicates and dual use potential of such technology is extremely socially destabilizing.

1:08:07 Speaker 2: So the thing is with China, you can manage technology and control information in that way, yes, totally based on the ideals of the Bill of Rights and the United States Constitution, you can't. It makes it way harder, right, So they have a good negotiating partner in China.

1:08:23 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, that makes a ton of sense.

1:08:25 Speaker 2: So even if you're un Lockheed, you know you're stuck behind all these walls of classification and these security oaths that you've taken, you might still believe in the ideals of the Bill of Rights, and you might not be ready to sell out, you know, at least the American citizenry to a foreign power or an alien power that intends to subjugate the planet and you know, subject us to global tyranny. So yeah, I'm not convinced that even people in the deepest strata of the deep state are so how can I put it?

1:09:02 Speaker 2: Callous and nihilistic and self serving that they would make a deal with people who want tyranny over to the planet. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if for a long time they've kept these technologies close to the chest in order to develop some kind of a deterrence capability or to approach parody technological and military parody with what with them with the people on the moon?

1:09:31 Speaker 1: What do you think it would be like to be a person who is at the highest of levels in one of these secret, super compartmentalized private aerospace companies that has and you are aware of the deepest, darkest secrets of reverse whatever, reverse engineered spaceships, alien contact, where they are everything, Like to be that person going to work, coming home, having dinner with your wife, tucking your kids in, Like, what would that do to you? What would that do to your your psychology?

1:10:05 Speaker 2: Okay, great question, Permit me to answer it in a little bit of a roundabout way, because I want to give you a substance of answer, right, And so here's where I want to go into the idea of the simulation theory. Because the deepest darkest secret that somebody in that position and Lockheed or an Orthrop or even at some of let's say at IBM and some of these you know, computer companies, tech giants that have been in bed with the defense contractors and the government for decades, the deepest darkest seed, the deepest darkest secret that they would know isn't even anything to do with zero point energy drives or even with the psionic aspects of say, piloting UFOs, which is another one.

1:10:54 Speaker 1: This new stuff that's coming out with these new whistleblowers that's been Yeah, way I predicted it.

1:10:59 Speaker 2: This is one of the reasons why that guy in the CIA contacted me after Closer Encounters came out. Because one of the things that I argue throughout this whole book, actually it goes back to even my first book, Prometheus and Atlas, is that I said that book was published in twenty sixteen, I said, there's not going to be any UFO disclosure without disclosure of psychic abilities, and there's not going to be any substantive scientific, mainstream acceptance of psychic abilities without UFO disclosure.

1:11:21 Speaker 2: These two things are completely inextricable. They're going to find that there are psionic aspects to the guidance systems of UFOs and that basically the pilot interacting telepathically with the system is part of how the thing is piloted.

1:11:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, the story of that guy, Michael Horrera that he taught that is straight out of Stranger Things.

1:11:43 Speaker 2: Welcome to that. So that goes to your question about what's the ethics of a person who's, you know, deep inside the system, right, how has their worldview been shaped by the horrific things that they've been apprized of. So to me, the most horrific thing.

1:11:57 Speaker 1: Isn't and not only that, but like, how does that shape your mind when you're almost living in It's like that new show that came out called Severance where they they basically they have a chip installed in their head and when they go to work, they go up the elevator. It shuts them off from their mind in the in the in the uh civilian world, and then they wake up in their their mind in their work environment on their floor where they're severed. So it's like they're living these two parallel lives.

1:12:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to develop a split personnelity.

1:12:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, very much so.

1:12:30 Speaker 2: Or like the doctor and stranger things, the one who works closely with eleven, you know that the Papa figure, right, Like some of these guys are family men, and you know they go home, they have to deal with their wives, have to deal with their kids, and you know they have to somehow dissociate from what it is they do at work every day. In any case, what are the deepest, darkest secrets that these people, you know, have been apprised of? You remember how I said in Remote Viewing of Them of by Joe mcmonagall, there was this very curious thing he reported about how these people on Mars kept trying to find a way out and they couldn't find a way out no matter what they did.

1:13:13 Speaker 2: What were they trying to find a way out of? So they got to Earth? I mean, if the theory that I'm proposing is correct, they made it to Earth and they used the Moon to terraform the Earth and so forth. Right, So they weren't trying to get out of Mars or get off of Mars. What were they trying to get out of. That's a good opener to this question of, you know, the simulation and what evidence there is that we might be living inside of a simulation. So this is something that I discussed at length in my book Satanian, And you know, I've discussed simulation theory and Closer Encounters and other books of mine before, but I discovered something recently that's much more rigorous from a mathematics and physics perspective, and consequently also more compelling and disturbing.

1:14:06 Speaker 2: And that's this, okay, so bear with me. It gets a little bit complicated. So we start building computers in the nineteen forties, right Alan Turing and the big wall sized computers, and we're competing with the Nazis and the iliac Aniac. And at that time in the nineteen forties, when we're building the first computers, there was this guy Claude Shannon who developed a science known as information theory, subsequently came to be known as information theory because before computers were built, nobody thought of mathematically formalizing the transfer of information.

1:14:47 Speaker 2: We had phones at that time, we had radio transmissions, but nobody thought about what was being transmitted over phone lines or over telegraph lines as data transfer. That concept didn't exist, but once they started building computers, it stands to reason that somebody would mathematically formulize what data is and what it means to transmit and transfer data. So this guy, Claude Shannon does this and he comes up with the idea of a binary digit binary digit bit, where data is conceived of according to the binary of one and zero.

1:15:25 Speaker 2: You know, data as being a construct built from out of sequences of ones and zeros. Claude Shannon is the first person to conceptualize this, and Shannon also makes the point that, look, we live in the universe bound by the two laws of thermodynamics. The first law of thermodynamics is that energy can never be created or destroyed. Energy equals mc square. This is going to be important for what I'm about to say. So, as Einstein, you know, showed us energy and mass are interconvertible. E equals mc squared.

1:15:57 Speaker 2: So energy can become mass and mass energy, but we can't identify anywhere in the physical universe energy being created or destroyed. That's the first law of thermodynamics. Net total energy remains the same yep, Okay, So then the second law thermodynamics is that we notice everywhere in nature, even you know, like when you pour like a dye into a glass of water, that there's a tendency toward disorder in the cosmos over time. And so the second law thermo dynamics is that in a closed system, the level of disorder or entropy either remains constant or increases.

1:16:44 Speaker 2: It's never the case that entropy decreases in nature. You never have more order emerge over time and large scale physical processes as things age, As things age, more disorder. This happens for our bodies, it happens to the whole universe. And so this is where they postulate the so called heat death of the universe, that at a certain point, the entropy will become so great that first, you know, galaxies are pulled apart, then solar systems are pulled apart, then planets are pulled apart, and eventually atomic structures are pulled apart, and life becomes non viable in the universe.

1:17:23 Speaker 2: Heat death of the universe at victory of entropy. That's the second law thromodynamics. So Shannon says, look if bits binary digits, meaning information is flowing through a computer system, that computer system is in the physical world, meaning it's bound by the laws of entropy. Meaning it's bound by the laws of entropy. Okay, So then there's this German Jewish physicist Ralf Landauer. He came over with the other German Jews were fleeing the Nazis, and in nineteen six rowth Landauer builds upon Claude Shannon's groundwork and information theory and he comes up with this equation which I have in Satanion comes up with this very short, elegant equation, uh extrapolated from out of the second law of thermodynamics, which says that if you delete one bit of information, there should be an increase of entropy outside of the computer system.

1:18:32 Speaker 2: So think about it this way. On a microchip or a magnetic tape, when it's blank. When it's blank, you've got the equivalent of zero zero, zero, zero zero or one one one. There's no data. When you record data on it, you get zero one zero, zero one one one zero one. So actually the blank tape has more order than when you start encoding information on it when conceived in physical terms. So because information is meaningful to us, and like a file has a book on it, text on it, and the text has meaning to us, or a photographic image has a meaning content to us.

1:19:17 Speaker 2: We think of information as, let's say, decreasing entropy because it's We think of it as highly ordered because it's meaningful to us. But when you think of it as a bunch of ones and zeros, sequences of ones and zeros, when you think of it inside of a physical system, the blank magnetic tape or the blank microchip has more order in it than when you start to record ones and zeros on it. That's more chaotic. Yes, zero zero one one one zero's year. So rawl f Landauer was saying, if we erase the data, we're increasing I'm sorry, If we erase the data, we're decreasing entropy inside the computer.

1:19:55 Speaker 2: Now, according to the laws of thermodynamics, if you decrease entropy inside some were inside the closed system, meaning the universe, you have to pay for it with an increase of entropy outside. This is the outside the computer. So you're decreasing entropy inside the computer by deleting By deleting shit, that's got to result in more entropy outside the computer because the net energy has to remain the same. So he came up with an equation that expresses this where if you delete one bit of information, a certain amount of energy is released.

1:20:30 Speaker 2: Got it. Okay, Now here's where it's going to get weird and creepy. Okay, But that was all necessary background. So we think that information is this abstract thing. We think it's like not physical, right, that's in the realm of ideas. Yeah, but what this equation is saying is the following that if you amass enough data, like on these huge server forms that we have in Silicon Valley that we have in China, right, and you're a massing not bytes or megabytes, not terabytes, petabytes whatever, right of data, and you erase all that data, you're going to have to give off a shit ton of energy.

1:21:17 Speaker 2: That's what Landauer's equation is saying is that if you erase a large amount of data, terabytes of data, there's a significant measurable energy release that's going to take place. Now according to equals MC squared, Right, the interconvertibility of matter and energy. What does that mean? Conversely, it means that if energy comes out of the computer when the data is released terabytes and terabytes on some server, right, Yeah, what was it when it was inside the computer mass. It was mass. So it's been proposed that we could weigh a hard drive before data is encoded on it, and then again after data is encoded on it.

1:22:06 Speaker 2: Or take a hard drive that has data encoded on it, weigh it, erase the data, and then weigh it again. There will be a mass differential. Okay, so there's mass inside a computer. That's not anything to do with the microchips or the transistors or magnetic tapes or anything. It's a hidden mass. This has been done this way. No, here's why because currently, according to Landauer's equation, if you were to calculate the mass of all of the information in the world today on all of the largest server farms that we have and here and you know that AI is being run off of in China, the total mass according to that equation comes to one kilogram less than less than one kilogram, less than one kilogram, meaning that we don't have sensitive enough weighing equipment to weigh a hard drive, let alone even a server.

1:23:03 Speaker 2: Right, I mean, we couldn't even weigh a server, let alone a hard drive because the mass currently is too little. However, the rate of data increase per year, the rate at which we're accumulating information per year is approximately twenty five percent. Okay, And if you think about where we're going technologically, we're headed towards this technological singularity where we're going to have artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence inside of robots like the Tesla robots. We're going to have these systems constantly accumulating all kinds of data, right, And so it stands to reason that as we approach the technological singularity, the rate of data increase per year is going to experience.

1:23:50 Speaker 2: It's going to exponentially take off way beyond twenty five percent, maybe close to one hundred percent. But get this, even if it were to stay twenty five percent, which it won't. But even if it were, I did the calculations they're in my book, setanian in something like three hundred and forty years,

1:24:11 Speaker 2: the amount of information that will exist in the world at the current rate of data production will equal the mass of the Moon. Now, go back to our conversation about the moon. The moon was brought here to terraform the planet potentially. In other words, the moon has massive gravitational effects on the Earth. Massive It took us from having eight hour days stabbing twenty four hour days. It controls the ocean tides. It's responsible for the tilt of the Earth's axis. The Moon has tremendous gravitational pull on the Earth, and the Moon only weighs one point two to three percent of the mass of the Earth.

1:24:46 Speaker 2: It weighs only.

1:24:47 Speaker 1: By the way, what's the size, what's the size comparison from the Moon to the Earth.

1:24:51 Speaker 2: I don't have the night. Yeah, so one point mass of the Earth. Okay, so get this. I did the calculations and something like I think it was like three hundred and forty years from now, something like that. We're going to wind up with a mass equivalent.

1:25:14 Speaker 1: The Moon is one quarter the size of the Earth in diameter.

1:25:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, so isn't that weird. Also, by the way, that.

1:25:20 Speaker 1: Find the mass, see if see if chat GPTL give me the mass or.

1:25:24 Speaker 2: No, you need you would need to see the percentage of the mass of the Earth.

1:25:27 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, the moon is approximately twenty seven percent the size of the Earth and diameter volume one point two three. It's a volume of about two percent, right, one point one.

1:25:36 Speaker 2: Point two three is a specific number anyway, So listen, I did these calculations Danny, and.

1:25:47 Speaker 1: So it says to illustrate, if the Earth were hollowould take fifty minutes to fill it. But it's one it's less than two percent the volume.

1:25:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, which, by the way, doesn't make sense in and of itself in terms of you know.

1:25:57 Speaker 1: The Moon would have to be hollow.

1:25:58 Speaker 2: There you go. Anyway, I did these calculations. Yes, something like three hundred and forty years from now, there's going to be a moon's worth of mass in the data center zone.

1:26:14 Speaker 1: So the Earth is going to weigh about a moon more than a ways now.

1:26:18 Speaker 2: It'll start to tear apart the planet. Imagine if you were to take the Moon. Look, the Moon is at a certain distance from us, right, it's pretty farah, and from that distance it's having this massive gravitational effect on us. Imagine you took the Moon's mass and you distribute it to Silicon Valley, to the major data centers of China. You put that mass right on the surface of the Earth. It will start generating tidal forces toward that gravity. Well, it will start attracting objects towards the gravity.

1:26:48 Speaker 2: Well, I realize it sounds bizarre, but metal chairs and knives and forks will start to go towards servers. The servers will become a gravity well, there will be so much mass inside them that it's as if the Moon is on the surface of the Earth. It gets worse. So all the.

1:27:07 Speaker 1: Data on Earth right now, if you could less some one kilog less.

1:27:12 Speaker 2: But because the exponential rate of data increase is so high twenty five percent per year right now year, in three hundred something years, we're going to wind up with the moon's mass worth of data on the Earth. And what's worse is that, like twenty years after that, I think it was twenty years exactly after that, we wind up with an earth's worth of mass on the Earth. It will go from weighing equal to the Moon to weigh equal to the Earth itself, which means at that point the planet would be completely torn.

1:27:37 Speaker 1: Upon unless we can find another way to store data, like off the Earth maybe or sure sure, or in maybe we like tap into you know, some sort of consciousness and we store everything there.

1:27:48 Speaker 2: You could build supermassive structures out of like nanomateials and whatever potentially to do something like this. Yeah, here's what I want to go somewhere else with this Where I want to go with this in simulation theory. Right, So, so think a little bit about this, Like, you accumulate this much data, and this is what it would do to the Earth. Right and you so you if you weigh a hard drive before you record data on it, it weighs less than after you record data on it. Okay, but we can't see this mass.

1:28:24 Speaker 2: I mean, you open you up. I suppose you're one of these very technically adept computer geeks and you take the you know, you take the screwdriver to your computer opener. Where the fuck is the mass? You can't see it even in these giant servers three hundred and forty years from now, once there's a moon's worth of mass in terms of information on the Earth, right, you can't see it inside the servers. Is there any other example of mass that we can't see in the universe? Yeah, it's dark matter?

1:29:00 Speaker 1: Okay, got it.

1:29:01 Speaker 2: Here's where it gets creepy, man, Here's where it gets really creepy. So how was dark matter discovered? It was discovered through three different types of experiments in the nineteen seventies. First, in the early nineteen seventies, when we started to be able to observe galaxies we noticed that they don't obey the spin rate that they should according to Newtonian mechanics. According to Newtonian physics, since most of the mass of the galaxy is concentrated toward the center of the galaxy, the inside of a galaxy should be spinning at a faster rate than the outer arms are.

1:29:33 Speaker 2: That's not what we see. We see a mostly even spin rate in galaxies. So that really got the physicists scratching their head, like what this suggests For most of the visible galaxy to be spinning at the same rate, it would mean that there's a lot of mass outside of the galaxy that's distorting or flattening the spin rate. Then they did another kind of They made another kind of observation of distant galaxies that has to do with the refraction of light. So, you know, we have galaxies that are further from us and galaxies that are closer to us, and the mass of the galaxies closer to us bends the light of the galaxies that are far from us.

1:30:19 Speaker 2: So based on how at what angle the light is bent as it reaches our telescopes from distant galaxies, we can estimate the weight the mass of the galaxies that are closer closer to us.

1:30:32 Speaker 1: You follow, I mean kind of.

1:30:35 Speaker 2: You got the galaxies that are far far from us, right, we're trying to look at them.

1:30:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they galaxies have different masses.

1:30:40 Speaker 2: The bed the light coming from them is bent by the galaxies that are closer to us.

1:30:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that.

1:30:45 Speaker 2: Ye, It's like they're going around the rim of a black hole. It bends the light, right. OK. So they observe this and they say, wait, this doesn't make any sense. We know the mass of such and such galaxy. It's bending the light much more severely than it should based on what we think that galaxy weighs. So then they did a third observation where they said, okay, well maybe there's gas. Maybe there's a bunch of gas in these galaxies. It's giving them more mass than we can see. So they look to the same galaxies with spectrometers that can detect gas and estimate the masses of gas.

1:31:17 Speaker 2: Nope, doesn't account for anywhere near the amount that this light is bent by. Okay, so putting these and these observations were all made in the seventies, the first one in the early seventies, the second in the mid to late seventies. Putting all three of these together, they came to the conclusion that there's a ton of mass around these galaxies that we can't see. It's not electromagnetically detectable, and yet it has massive gravitational effects. Okay, so massing that means, well, look, the amount of mass that we can't see that we can't electromagnetically observe that ensconce's galaxies surrounds them is such that it flattens the spin rate of a galaxy.

1:32:03 Speaker 2: The inside should be spinning much faster than the outside, and yet it's spinning at the same rate. So it's a ton of mass that's not electromagnetically observable, but it's so gravitationally powerful that it's altering the spin rate of a whole galaxy. Okay, well, so we have a form of mass that we can't detect electromagnetically, and yet it has massive gravitational effects. It is dark matter, right, that's what's inside your computer. Dark matter information is the same thing. It's the same thing.

1:32:37 Speaker 2: It's the same thing. And once you realize that. One of the first people who I think realized this was John Archibald Wheeler. I think he worked at Princeton American physicist John Archbold Wheeler. He made this formulation. It from bit. Okay, he said, look, if we want to say that information is a third state of matter and energy, in other words, that it's not only the case that, as Einstein realized, matter and energy are interconvertible. Matter and energy are both also interconvertible with information.

1:33:17 Speaker 2: So when you delete the data on the computer, it increases entropy by giving off energy. So you have three terms in this relation. It's not just matter and energy. It's matter, energy, and information, and they're all interconvertible into each other. And the kind of matter that information is before you delete it is dark matter. You cannot electromagnetically detect it, but it has massive gravitational effects when it gets dense enough, when it reaches a critical mass. So Wheeler said, John Archbold Wheeler, Well, why don't we just say that energy and matter are forms of information, and that we live in an informational and it things solid things come from bit.

1:34:07 Speaker 2: It from bit. Well that's very useful in terms of reconciling, for example, physics with parapsychology. Right, I mean one of the reasons why parapsychology has been marginalized for so many decades is because no one's been able to come up with a physical model that can explain telepathy and clairvoyance and precognition. And a lot of physicists have tried. Dean Rayden, for example, somebody came from out of the physics community relatively recently, tried to model sigh, you know, in a rigorous enough framework to accommodate quantum theory and so forth, but no one's been able to do it.

1:34:46 Speaker 2: Well, if you change your paradigm and you consider that actually we're living in an information matrix, and that what we think of as matter and energy are forms of information, then the data from parapsychology makes a lot more sense. Because an information system is one where consciousness is fundamental and intrinsic. An information processing system is one that's meant to have meaning for minds. You're not starting from physics from protons, electrons and neutrons, dead unconscious matter and trying to build up to consciousness from that and figure out how consciousness interacts with that.

1:35:29 Speaker 2: You're starting from the understanding that we live in an information processing system and by the way, this suddenly then makes sense of all the paradoxes of quantum theory, like the wave particle duality. So you know this the double slit experiment. Yes, Why would it be the case that only if you turn on a detector, meaning that there's a person observing the experiment, Even if you observe observation means checking the data that was recorded later, it's still observed. Why would it be the case that only when you turn on the detector you make an observation, do you get a particle with a distinct location.

1:36:08 Speaker 2: And before that, it's a wave form, meaning it's a probability distribution of something that could be a particle. In computer science they call that rendering up optimization. It's used in video games all the time. Things that aren't being looked at aren't rendered. It conserves processing.

1:36:26 Speaker 1: Power that supports the simulation theory totally that we're living inside of a computer program.

1:36:31 Speaker 2: And so what is dark matter?

1:36:34 Speaker 1: Dark matter is the program that we're living.

1:36:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the dark matter around the galaxy is the one that we have physically observed through all these different observational mechanisms, telescopes and over It's a computational cloud. It's a computational cloud around the galaxy, and it's probably projecting what we see and experience. We're detecting the computational system when we detect dark matter, which nobody seems to know what the fuck it is.

1:37:12 Speaker 1: Which you're saying, is the same thing as data information. We store information that is stored on hard drives.

1:37:24 Speaker 2: So yeah, this is in my book Satanian, and the chapter is called Catastrophic Information because there's a physicist recently who's looked at all of this and he conceptualizes this as an information catastrophe. Melvin Vopson. He's working at a university in Britain. I believe he's I think Romanian originally, but he's working in UK and he calls it the information catastrophe because look, at a certain point, we're going to reach a critical massive data which will have geophysically catastrophic effects.

1:38:05 Speaker 2: Oh here's the other thing. So I investigated what would be the geophysical effects of reaching a critical mass of data. Guess what it turns out to be. Every single catastrophe that's been held responsible for the destruction of Atlantis. So all these all these you have, all these theorists from like Plato, all the way way back Plato to Senator Ignatius Donnelly in the eighteen hundreds with his book Atlantis the Antediluvian World, to Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, all these people talking about the various catastrophy Glenn Debble, the various catastrophes that might have destroyed the civilization.

1:38:50 Speaker 2: And by the way, just on a quick, quick, quick side note, you cannot argue with one thousand, three hundred ton megaliths in battle bic Lebanon, which are fitted together with razor precision and you can't even slip a razor blade between the joint. You cannot argue with that, okay? Or those exactly the Egyptians have those two and you know who knows who they got them from? Right and with what tools?

1:39:16 Speaker 1: They were perfectly symmetrical. How do they man a computer?

1:39:18 Speaker 2: So this civilization existed, okay? And there are all these geophysical catastrophes that have been postulated as the cause for the destruction of this worldwide highly advanced technical culture. Right. Guess what if you wind up with the moon's mass worth of data at Silicon Valley or in China, you know what winds up happening. Every single thing that anyone's ever held responsible for the destruction of Atlantis. Number one, the crust sinks underneath the data center. Number two, it creates a tidal force like the moon does, so the oceans get pulled in toward the data center.

1:39:56 Speaker 2: Crust sinks, there's a massive flood. It causes earthquakes because it activates the gravitational pull from the servers activates all the tectonic plates, so you wind up also with massive earthquakes. The same gravitational pull sets off volcanoes, so you get volcanoes going off all over the planet. Potentially the gravitational disturbance would also even tilt the axis of the Earth, which is something that many people from Charles Hapgood onward have postulated was responsible for the destruction of Atlantis.

1:40:29 Speaker 2: That potentially Atlantis was Antarctica, that's one theory, and that it was suddenly pulled into the South Polar region due to a crustal slippage, Well, that's also something that would happen. So I mapped out what would be the geophysical implications of such a critical massive data and it's every single thing that anyone's ever thought destroyed Atlantis, not one or the other of them, all of them at once. So then you got to wonder what actually destroyed that civilization? Could it be hard drives?

1:41:00 Speaker 2: You know, it sounds funny, man, but you know, look, it stands to reason. If we're headed for an information catastrophe, what if he crept up on them without them realizing what they were doing, and that's what actually destroyed that civilization.

1:41:14 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I had I had this guy on here from the NSA, Tom Drake, and he was explaining that they have what was do you remember, Steve what he said? He said, they have like acres and acres out in the desert somewhere I want to say, like in Nevada or in Wayo. It was somewhere in the Midwest where they have just like farms after farms after farms, of these of these massive hard drives that are collecting all of the surveillance data that they're using from satellites, from from phones, from literally every single every single potential way the NSA can collect data on.

1:41:52 Speaker 1: People say, Utah, is it? Yeah, Utah? That's it. The Utah Data Center, known as the the Bumbla Heave location. The facility spans one million square feet and includes one hundred thousand square feet Tier Tier three mission critical data center design to sort vast amounts of data estimated to be on the order of exabytes or larger to support comprehensive National Security Initiative. Data center uses the Kray XC thirty supercomputer, capable of scaling workloads of more than one hundred penaflops or one hundred trillion calculations each second.

1:42:31 Speaker 1: Look at the pictures. Can you pull up a photo of it like on images? I'm unbrave right here? Oh, absolutely not. That's terrible.

1:42:40 Speaker 2: Here, I'll get it for you. Crazy. Yeah, they're not going to want to have detailed photography of that side available. I bet you if you Google image search that you'd be one of these places that's locked down.

1:42:54 Speaker 1: Is that that's it under construction. Yeah, it's only recently constructed, I think. And that's another thing, is that so.

1:43:04 Speaker 2: This crust is going to sync under that one day if this theory is correct.

1:43:10 Speaker 1: Or it's going to create, it's going to start it's going to become a magnetic anomaly and throw off the spin of the Earth.

1:43:18 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, you know, So there'd be early warning science compasses would start malfunctioning in the vicinity of it.

1:43:27 Speaker 1: This is so crazy, man, So how.

1:43:29 Speaker 2: Do we get here? You asked me, what would be the effect of knowing the deepest, darkest secrets on somebody, let's say, in the NSA, who has that level of clearance, somebody inside Lockey who has that level of clearance? Right? Even IBM, IBM's done a lot of dark shit. IBM. You know, IBM made the punch card computer equipment that allowed the Nazis to process Jews through the concentration CAMPP.

1:43:54 Speaker 1: So well, I mean there's a lot of companies that were still around today that had to did a lot of darkshit with the Nazis, right, Oh yeah, well but those people are all dead, and like the company's still alive.

1:44:06 Speaker 2: Sure, the question is is the idea dead? And that really speaks to what you ask me. Oh look, it's one thing. What does it due to your worldview to know that there are people living in underground cities on Mars? Or to know that the moon is an artificial satellite?

1:44:21 Speaker 1: Right and you're one of like a dozen people on Earth who have this information.

1:44:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's another thing if what you know is that we're living in a simulation. And not only are we living in a simulation, we're living in a simulation with a computational ceiling, meaning that it's inbuilt that we cannot exceed a certain level of data production. You're saying that's a cap on our civilization. It means that Look, remember people talk about the Kardashev scale. You ever heard about Kardashchev scale? No, Michiokaku used to talk about it a lot. Not that I want to reference Mishio Kaku because his con artistry promoting you know, string theory really damage the physics community for decades.

1:45:07 Speaker 2: But Misho Kaku is somebody who he wasn't the only one he brought brought back this idea of the Kardashchev scale. This is this Russian scientist who basically came up with this scale of the level of civilization type one, type two, type three based on their amount of energy usage.

1:45:21 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, But the.

1:45:23 Speaker 2: Thing about the Kardashev scale is that, Okay, one metric is energy usage, but another is the level of data production. Right, So we're living in a simulacrum that doesn't allow anyone to even become a type two kardaschief civilization, which, by the way, would explain why they're like these. The skeptics, I always say, where are all the aliens? How come there are no aliens here? Right? Right?

1:45:50 Speaker 1: Yeah?

1:45:51 Speaker 2: And Fermi paradox, Yeah, they never when they keep citing the Fermi paradox. They like to turn a blind eye to the UFO phenomenon. But even if you considered all the data of the UFO phenomenon, there's actually no really hard evidence that anyone's coming here from outside our solar system, right there isn't right, And these entities, at least the ones who seem to be in charge, look human, yes, And the little grays those are humanoid robots in all.

1:46:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you've heard of Mike Masters, you've read his books. That's the best. That is the best, most comprehensive explanation as to why these My problem with.

1:46:27 Speaker 2: Mike Masters is that he adheres to the block universe idea of the way time is closed time like curves. He thinks it's not possible to change history when you time travel, whereas I've made extense timelines. Yes, and that would mean multiverse. Yes. According to how Mike Masters understands the dynamics of time travel, we would not have any free will. We would be living in a universe where the future is already determined. Anyway, that's a metaphysical argument for us.

1:46:56 Speaker 1: But generally the idea, coming from an anthropolity anthropological background, is that for a being to come from another star system or an another Goldilocks planet, to have two arms, two legs upright, hominid brains on top of the eyes, it would have to be the exact same conditions that Earth is under, with the atmosphere, with everything like that, and it would be like, as to how rare we are on Earth, We're like zero zero zero one percent of the species on Earth that look the way we do, and we're able to develop technology, get up the Earth so strapled that into the universe.

1:47:26 Speaker 1: It's like virtually impossible to have another being that looks so similar to us.

1:47:31 Speaker 2: I find that a useful argument, because I actually do think that we're dealing with descendants of the human race and other versions of the human race and this phenomenon. However, I have to say, in defense of Greer, I watched some of your interview with him, not all of it. And he did bring up a point that was legitimate, but he expressed it in a way where I think he wasn't making himself clear. Remember why he came back and said to you, No, actually, it's very likely that there's or be humanoid life on another Yeah, here's what he was trying to say, Rupert Sheldrake.

1:48:05 Speaker 1: He said something about morphic resonance.

1:48:10 Speaker 2: Rupert Sheldrake British biologist who has looked at a lot of different empirical evidence for another form of causality in nature besides efficient causality. Efficient causality is like billiard ball causality bing bang bong, you know, things colliding with each other on an atomic subatomic level. Right now, the view that the whole universe works only according to efficient causality, the materialist, reductionist mechanistic model the universe, it's only a couple hundred years old. Back in the day, even in the Renaissance, let alone in classical antiquity, when people like Aristotle were formulating how the universe functions, there were other forms of causality, like formal causes, where forms were considered a cause, a shaping influence that guided biological and physical development.

1:49:12 Speaker 2: Okay, So form was considered a type of cause in and of itself, and in the Aristotelian view of the world, there were also final causes, in other words, purposes in nature that you know, embedded in the seed of a plant is a purpose to become a certain type of plant, and to absorb light from the sun, and to alter the nutrients of the earth that the plant is growing in, and to grow fruit that nourishes people. As part of the purpose of a plant, like.

1:49:43 Speaker 1: The soul of something.

1:49:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, the aim, the aim of something, the soul of an a the aim of something. A part of the soul of the plant is also the form of the plant, the form. And they thought that forms were causes. So you had an Aristotle, You had a material cause, which is what something's made of. Then you have the formal cause, which is like what the thing is supposed to, what shape the thing is supposed to take, and it's embedded in the seed, and then you have the purpose of the thing. And then efficient causality, which is the only one we're left with in modern physics, is just how these other causes shape the thing, Okay, And that's all we're left with in modern physics.

1:50:24 Speaker 2: What Rupert Sheldrake found is lots of evidence for formal causes, and he calls it formative causation or morphic resonance. Morphe is the Greek for form, okay, morphic resonance, resonance of form, or formative causation. So, for example, this is what Greer was trying to get across. It turns out that in a pharmaceutical laboratory, when you try to crystallize a compound for the first time to make a drug. Let's say, right the first time you try to crystallize a chemical compound, it takes a very long time to cohere.

1:51:01 Speaker 2: It's very hid and miss and takes a long time to cohere to crystallize. The second time you try to synthesize that compound in a completely different laboratory, let's say on the other side of the planet, it forms instant much faster. So it's as if when something works and takes shape in a certain way for the first time, something about the world remembers that it works that way, and so the second time it's attempted, it takes that shape much more quickly. It's a resonance of form across space and time.

1:51:40 Speaker 2: Irrespective of space and time.

1:51:44 Speaker 2: And there's been a lot of evidence that has been found in biology, where they call it convergent evolution. Also, this is another name for this convergent evolution where you have two completely distinct species, like let's say a species of dolphin, and then you have a certain kind of land mammal or whatever you know, and there are certain solutions to evolutionary stresses that are arrived at in these two completely distinct species whose common ancestor is like millions of years in the past. And because it seemed to work in one species, evolution seems to evolution seems to adopt that solution in a completely unrelated species.

1:52:35 Speaker 2: So what Greer was suggesting is that if these if this type of causation morphic resonants are formative causation works irrespective of space time, it could be the case that on planets that are slightly different from ours, I mean not so radically different that they you know, you don't have anything more complex than Baia bacteria, but in the planet slightly different than from Mars, because the anthropoid form worked here, or maybe worked on Mars one hundred million years ago. The memory of the Cosmos stores that solution and implements it again as an efficient solution in a different evolutionary context.

1:53:21 Speaker 1: You're talking about like the dark matter memory.

1:53:24 Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying it's that Sheldrake is an Anglican Christian. I got into an exchange with him one You're so so Sheldrake wouldn't want to believe this, right. He thinks that he thinks these forms exist in the mind of God. Basically, he won't say that as a biologist, okay, but he's an Anglican Christian, So he thinks these forms. This this memory that stores evolutionary solutions or stores suitable pharmaceutical like crystallization formulas. He thinks that's like in the mind of God. Basically, I think it's in the simulation.

1:53:58 Speaker 2: It's a computer system. When something works, the system remembers and it's not going to waste processing power. Next time it sees something as grappling with the same problems, it remembers, Oh, here was a solution to that, Let me implement it again. So what Greer was trying to say is that it could just turn out that the two arms, two legs, brain on top of it. It's a very efficient solution, and so the system remembers that and it implements that solution on another planet, you know, in another galaxy right halfway across the universe.

1:54:28 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's possible. That's a possible.

1:54:31 Speaker 1: Yea. The word he used was he tried to use the word quantum entanglement for it, saying that anyways, I got to get a leak real quickly. Listen quickly. We'll be right back, folks.

1:54:43 Speaker 2: All right, we're back.

1:54:44 Speaker 1: We were getting deep. Where were we.

1:54:47 Speaker 2: We were We were in dark.

1:54:49 Speaker 1: Matter, yes, yes, we're okay, dark matter, and we were in the morphic morphic residence.

1:54:56 Speaker 2: Okay, yes, we were talking about morphic resonance because you know.

1:55:00 Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, like, how a monkey can figure out how to make a tool in Australia and simultaneously it happens in North America at.

1:55:06 Speaker 2: The same time with monkey phenomena. Looks they found this with rats too. They would run rats through mazes where you know, they're shocked or rewarded depending on whether they, you know, can navigate the maze successfully. Yeah, And they run the same kind of test with a completely different group of rats in a different country, and if the first group of the first set of rats learns the maze successfully. The second set of rats in a different country picks up where the other group left off in their learning curve.

1:55:39 Speaker 2: So it suggests that there is this morphic resonance.

1:55:42 Speaker 1: Also, I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but there was also studies that were done where they taught the rats the mazes and then they like chopped out a portion of their brain and they were able to accurately figure out the maze again after or they flipped their brain upside down, like completely scrambled their brains and they remembered.

1:56:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, Carl Prebrum studied this, and I think the nineteen eighties seventies eighties Carl Prebrum and he developed what's called the holographic brain theory that information is encoded in the brain, including you know, skills are encoded in the brain, both both content memory and behavioral memory, in a way that's similar to how an image is encoded in a hologram, where it can slice up the hologram any number of times. A true hologram the one the kind that you need a laser beam to shine on for the image to pop out of, not the shitty cheap holograms that they distribute everywhere, like really good holograms where if you go to I don't know, a museum or whatever exhibit and you see super high fidelity.

1:56:52 Speaker 1: Like the Tupac thing where they got the Tupac performing in front of the crowd and they put a hologram. Right, have you seen that?

1:56:58 Speaker 2: No? I haven't seen it.

1:56:58 Speaker 1: Show that film, the TWOPO the Tupac.

1:57:00 Speaker 2: Let's not put don't. I don't want to poc winding up in the middle of this podcast. Why not? What do you go?

1:57:06 Speaker 1: What's your problem to anyway?

1:57:07 Speaker 2: Listen, Laser beams. Laser beams, right, are shown on a holographic film, and an image pops out. Okay, Now, it turns out that if you slice the hologram into fours and you shine the laser beam on any quarter of that hologram, the whole image still pops out. It's a little bit blurrier. Put it cut it into eighth's whole image still pops out out of any fragment of this hologram. And what Prebram said is that the brain seems to work the same way. So that's some trauma victims, some who have some level of physical brain damage still remember things and have certain abilities, even though some of the parts of their brain that you would think are most relevant to that skill have been physically damaged.

1:57:54 Speaker 2: Because the brain records information holographically. Now, this is relevant to what we were talking about in terms of the semi and I mentioned this in my book Prometheism in the chapter on the end of reality. David Bohm took this data that called prebrum basically analyzed in terms of how the brain works, and he applied the same model to the whole universe. And Bom, David Bohm, the physicist, argued that certain characteristics of quantum theory, like what we discussed earlier, wave particle duality and also quantum entanglement, suggests that the universe functions like a hologram, that we're living in a universe that has holographic properties.

1:58:44 Speaker 2: And Michael Talbot gave a very sort of compelling popular presentation of this in his book The Holographic Universe, great great text from the nineties. Now that's another angle on the simulation theory. This idea that the universe, like the brain, has holographic properties, in other words, that it's an information storage and processing system. And in that metaphor, the laser being shown on the holographic film is consciousness laser yes, yes. So, for example, in the double slit experiment, right when the when the laser particle beam whatever is not being observed and it passes through the double slits and registers on the photographic films as a wave form, right, meaning that it passed through the double slits as a probability distribution of whether it would go through one slit or the other.

1:59:50 Speaker 2: That's like a piece of holographic film without a laser being shown on it, where all you see are swirls in the film. In a true hologram, when you look at holographic film, you can't see any image in it. It's a bunch of swirls. You need the laser beam to shine on it for the image to pop out. That's like observation in the double slit experiment where consciousness is akin to the laser beam that's being shown on the hologram.

2:00:14 Speaker 1: That makes sense.

2:00:14 Speaker 2: So what Boom and then Talbot we're saying is that it's consciousness that makes the universe pop out to us as a phenomenal experience from out of code, from out of mathematical wave functions in an information.

2:00:30 Speaker 1: Proces is consciousness.

2:00:34 Speaker 2: Exactly? You ask that question on the other side of two three hundred years of conditioning in a reductionist mechanistic physical model from a time of Newton onward, where it's expected that consciousness should be explained as a phenomenon reducible to some and a physical mechanism. Well, if Wheeler was right in his interpretation of you know this information theory that we were talking about beginning with Claude Shannon continuing with Royal Flandauer, if Wheeler's interpretation that.

2:01:14 Speaker 1: It comes Wheeler's first name.

2:01:16 Speaker 2: John John Archibald Wheeler. Okay, by the way, he had security clearances and worked with people deep in the deep State, including on the UFO subject secretly. So this goes to your question, like, what does it due to your worldview when you know this shit about how the universe works? Right, then not only are we living under the death Star, but actually we're living inside a simulation. What does that do to your view of the world and your sense of ethics? Yeah, but point being, if you ask what is consciousness coming from out of this physicalist, reductionist conditioning, the established mechanistic paradigm we've been living in for two three hundred years.

2:01:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if Wheeler is correct and it comes from bit, it's a nonsensical question. What is consciousness? Consciousness is an irreducible precondition of any physical phenomena whatsoever the universe. The existence of any other experienceable phenomena is predicated on the fact of consciousness. If we're living in an information processing system, Danny right, for whom is the information being processed? And information processing system is there to render meaningful content to a mind or to minds okay, meaning the consciousness is intrinsic to the system, and by the way, that should be the intuitively correct view, Like this is some bizarre, counterintuitive thing to imagine that consciousness is some derivative phenomenon that needs to be explained in terms of gears and like billiard balls, that we need to build consciousness up from out of mechanistic physics.

2:03:06 Speaker 2: That's not intuitive at all.

2:03:07 Speaker 1: What do you make of Yung's idea of consciousness? How are you explained it as like this archipelago? He explained consciousness human consciousness as like this giant connected big thing, this big rock or big island or whatever, and there's water above it, and there's all these little islands sticking out. We are each individual islands of our own consciousness, our own ego or whatever. But below the ocean it's like this. It's this whole archipelago island that's connected, right, and it's all one thing.

2:03:38 Speaker 2: People say these things about Jung, when you actually look into Jung, it's a little bit more nuanced than that, and it's connected to other ideas that are more complex and more disturbing. So what you're talking about is the collective unconscious what Young called the collective unconscious, Okay, But what often isn't quoted from out of Jung is that Jung believed that different races had different collective unconsciousness, so he's not talking about the collective of humanity. He makes this point very distinctly that, for example, the German people have Wotan or Odin as an archetype that guides their collective unconscious, the Germanic collective unconscious.

2:04:23 Speaker 2: So you know, as World War Two was starting, Jung wrote about how he thought that the Nazis exploding onto the world stage were an eruption from out of the collective unconscious of the Germanic people, and that it was the god Odin as an archetype coming back into the world. And this idea is not unique to Jung, and he didn't come up with it. Actually, if you dig deeper into the German intellectual history, you find this in the Philosophy of Mind of Hegel, Georg Hegel, who you want to think about, somebody hard to read, I mean Hegel Man Like, there's no more cryptic and dense writer probably the entire human intellectual history than that fucker.

2:05:10 Speaker 2: But I've worked through some of Hegel, and in this Philosophy of Mind, it's very clear that one of the things he's saying is that different races, closely knit ethnic groups have something like unconscious telepathy going on. And actually you can see this very clearly in isolated tribes. People who've done anthropological research on tribes in Australia or in certain parts of Africa have seen that not only is their telepathy connecting members in the tribe, there's a lot of clairvoyance and stuff too.

2:05:45 Speaker 2: Like they they function, you know, primitive tribes function in a way similar to schools of fish or flocks of birds. Okay, and so an extension of that is that even as civilization arises, certain closely knit groups share a collective unconscious. So Jung wasn't saying that, like on some kumbai aimistical level, were all one, right. It was describing properties of the collective unconscious of different groups of people. But it could be that that's a nested hierarchy, you know, a nested hierarchy.

2:06:18 Speaker 2: In other words, you have very tightly knit collective unconsciousness of different races. But then there is a level of kind of telepathic communication among humanity in general. Right, And this goes to morphic resionance where we're saying about morphic resonance earlier, so that if there were humans somewhere else, like let's say there are also humans on Mars, there might be a kind of telepathic link between humans on Earth and humans on Mars. That is not in any way, shape or form saying that all sentient life in the universe is fundamentally interconnected, which is the claim a lot of sort of New Age people want to make sense one and it's all one and it's all with God and whatever that makes sense.

2:07:04 Speaker 2: The collective unconscious is actually a testable claim. It's hard to test, But it's a reasonable postulate in psychology and anthropology.

2:07:15 Speaker 1: What do you think makes some of these individuals who are able to do some of this consciousness stuff? Like whether whether it be people in the Stargate program doing remote viewing, or whether it be some of these folks that these whistleblowers are talking about doing these psionic psychic takeovers of UFOs. Is there something fundamental about certain people that gives them this ability, Like I know, for example, this guy David Morehouse came in here, he got shot in the head, right, he got a stray bullet hit him in the helmet, like knocked him unconscious, and he had had severe TBI and that's when they admitted him to the Stargate program.

2:07:56 Speaker 1: Like so, but other people seem to, like like Ingo Swan or like Uri Geller, seemed to be just like innately born with this.

2:08:05 Speaker 2: I think there are three different things going on. First of all, Gary Nolan claims that the research he's done in the in the research he's done at Stanford, that he's found that there are structural properties of the brains of these people basil ganglia. Yes, involving the basil ganglia. There are significantly different from the average and the population. So there could be elements of the physiological development of the brain, which is genetic, yes, and to some extent environmental that I say, to some extent environmental, because like radiation for example, can mutate people, right, it can mutate their brain development.

2:08:47 Speaker 1: And also I think Michael Horrero was saying that some of the people that they got in that on that mission, like had just survived an earthquake, and.

2:08:55 Speaker 2: Well that comes to another reason another fact. Well, that's a distinct fact.

2:08:58 Speaker 1: I would imagine that was because they were not a part of this civilized technical world that we live in. They're more in tuned in nature.

2:09:07 Speaker 2: Okay, in that case, there are four factors. Good, very good point. This goes back to the Australian Aborigines and the people tribes in Africa that I was just referencing. So four different factors. One, so Gary Nolan's research suggests that there are physical differences in the brains of these people. They're slight, but they're significant involving the you know, significant to the level of psychic ability that someone demonstrates, and it involves the basil ganglia. Another factor is trauma, and we're going to come back to that.

2:09:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely a huge correlation. Yeah, they're definitely a huge correlation between trauma, especially trauma from childhood, and the degree of someone's extrasensory perception.

2:09:57 Speaker 2: Another factor is level of civilization. What you're just referencing that there is a clear correlation between the rise of technical intellect, the hypertrophy of our analytical mind, and the atrophy of psychic abilities. I talk about this in my first book, Prometheus and Atlas, that it's very obvious studying primitive tribes that they have much stronger psychic abilities, which stands to reason because animals have much stronger psychicabilities than humans. Studies on dogs, and on forces, and on fish and birds have shown that they have much stronger psychicabilities than humans.

2:10:34 Speaker 2: So it stands the reason that primitive tribes, we are still living close to nature, also would not have experienced an atrophy of their psychic abilities because they're relying more on analytical reasoning and on the technology that comes from it. Right, So, as we've separated ourselves from nature, both through analytical thinking and through material technologies that do shit for us, this is atrophy.

2:11:00 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I've heard people who've come on the podcast describe the experience of going down to the Amazon rainforest and being down there for weeks or even months, and they're saying, once you're down there, isolated from this hyper evolved technical world we live in in America and you get out of it into nature out there, something happens to you where your body just becomes in tune with the jungle where you it's weird, where you can sense dangers like not just I'm not talking about esp type stuff, where I'm saying like there's something built into us, like deep buried deep inside of us, where we automatically can like sense the way the birds are chirping that there's danger near right, little thing like little things in nature that we didn't even know were they're inside of us.

2:11:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, people say, getting in touch with your instincts, what does that mean?

2:11:52 Speaker 1: Right?

2:11:52 Speaker 2: Okay?

2:11:53 Speaker 1: Sure's like some deep evolution that's that's in us that comes out when we're put back in those environments.

2:11:59 Speaker 2: Someone who wrote a lot about this in a fairly sophisticated way was the French philosopher Henri Bergson. Bergson was an early twentieth century philosopher who also by the way got involved with the League of Nations and he, you know the organization that today is called UNESCO, the United Nations, United Nations Educational and Scientific Organization UNESCO, which Trump is defunding. I don't blame him, given what UNESCO has become. But back in the day before the un was even formed, and it was still the League of Nations, remember the predecessor organization Bergson helped set up.

2:12:33 Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, he was the first director or he was a director of UNESCO. So he was not just a philosopher like you know in an ivory tower. He made a big impact on public intellectual culture. Anyway. Bergson in his book Creative Evolution and also in his book Matter and Memory, he discusses the evolutionary bifurcation of intellect and instinct, and he shows how various species that operate entirely on instinct because of their morphological structure, because of the way their bodies are constructed, like certain insects, they don't have the potential to develop technology because their bodies are too well suited to grappling with their environment.

2:13:22 Speaker 2: It's like they're born ready to handle the world. Yes, humans are born crippled, right and therefore we need technology, right, and so we as we develop technology, and as we develop the model building intellectually that allows us to engineer technology. In other words, as we develop a scientific analytical mindset, are instinct atrophies. So there's this evolutionary bifurcation between instinct, I'm sorry, intuition, Sorry, no, instinct and intellect. And what Bergson says is that what we call intuition is the resurgence of instinct in the context of a life form with a dominant analytical intellect.

2:14:10 Speaker 2: So our intuition is us getting back in touch with the instinct that these other animals operated a course.

2:14:16 Speaker 1: And that's interesting too, like with human beings, how long it takes us from birth to be able to survive in the environment, Like we're literally helpless for years.

2:14:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And that goes to the heart of the myth of Prometheus that's been central to all of my work because you know, one of the elements of the myth of Prometheus that a lot of people neglect because they don't really you know, look into it, and I just think about, Oh, Prometheus stole fire from the gods to give men the power of ingenuity. Okay, that Prometheus brought this fire to be a forge for all kinds of technical innovation and invention. Right, But part of the myth of Prometheus is that so Zeus lets Prometheus design humans.

2:15:05 Speaker 2: Humans are creations of Prometheus, not of Zeus in Greek mythology, except Prometheus, whose name means forethought, has this forgetful brother Epimetheus, his name means afterthought, and Epimetheus kind of begs Prometheus to be involved in the project of the creation of man, and Prometheus subcontracts part of the design of humans. To Epimetheus, Epimetheus forgets to endow humans with an essence particular to our species. So, according to the Greek way of thinking, all different various animals had a species being, an essence that defines that species as what it is, gives it its purpose.

2:15:47 Speaker 2: Remember we were talking about final causes earlier. Telos purpose aim of a species or an organism. So Epimetheus forgets to give a purpose a telos. It means we're not born with any purpose that's designed, that's embedded in us the way that it is in the case of certain insects any other non human animals, and therefore we're left to define our own purpose through the development and use of technology. So the human is an existentially uncompleted being who necessarily has to complete himself through the use of technology.

2:16:35 Speaker 2: This idea is that the heart of the myth of Prometheus, and it's very beautifully symbolized where when Prometheus finds out that shit, my dumb brother, my forgetful brother, didn't give these creatures any purpose, any essence, Athena comes and helps out. She has a special relationship with Prometheus, Athena. He tried to seduce her at one point, and Athena comes and helps out by giving Man his soul in the form of a butterfly. So what substitutes what you know for the our lacking essence is a butterfly, that's the soul of man.

2:17:14 Speaker 2: Well, what's a butterfly? The symbol of metamorphosis, the caterpillar becoming the butterfly.

2:17:21 Speaker 1: It's just like marshamll clue and is this tie into his idea of the electronic caterpillar.

2:17:25 Speaker 2: I don't know. The human humanity. Humans are basically creating this.

2:17:32 Speaker 1: We are, like the electronic caterpillar, building technology into this. Yes, yes, yes it does. Our purpose is to build this.

2:17:41 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, perfectly, and so you know, it's another way of saying that it's up to us what we make ourselves. It's up to us. We have the freedom of a butterfly, and we have the metamorphic potential of the caterpillar, and through technology with which we cannot survive, without which we wouldn't even be human. You know that pre human hominids evolved into us by using technology. Fire made it easier to chew food, and the shape of the human skull changed because of that, since we didn't need huge chomper jaws anymore.

2:18:21 Speaker 2: So the very morphology of the Homo sapien was in the first place, defined by a certain technological innovation. So we're intrinsically technological beings with a metamorphic potential that's unique in nature, and that means that our evolutionary horizon is open. We can decide what it is we want to become, which is very freeing but also incredibly dangerous.

2:18:45 Speaker 1: What do you make of the stoned a hypothesis that we eate a mushroom which accounted for the extreme growth in our brain size.

2:18:53 Speaker 2: Well, that's also techne. So you know, Heidegger uses this word techne, which comes from ancient Greek to express the essence of technology, and it means craft and cultivation of psychedelic substances is also craft. So yeah, it's a form of technology, and undoubtedly, at various junctures it contributed to the evolution of human consciousness and probably will continue to. Mean DMT what you know, we're talking about earlier off the record, about experiments where people are given DMT and they look at laser beams and they see the code of the matrix inside the laser beams.

2:19:33 Speaker 2: Well, you know, if that starts to happen on a large enough scale and it's considered in the context of all this data that we've discussed regarding the possibility we're living in a simulation that's certainly going to result in some kind of a mutation of human consciousness. Grappling with that fact existentially is going to involve or require a further evolution of human consciousness.

2:19:58 Speaker 1: That study with Danny Goler did that. He was just on here again recently and Andrew Gallimore did a review of it. I think he's now working with Galimore doing further studies of it.

2:20:11 Speaker 2: He found out about it through reading Galimore.

2:20:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Gallamore's doing the DMT X extended state DMT stuff, And one of the things that Gallimore talks about is there's history, a history of people under this under the influence of psychedelic drugs seeing code and specific things. And one of the things that he described in regards to that laser experiment where you do DMT and you shine the laser on the wall, you look at the laser and you see that code, is that it's like the laser sort of acts like a microscope. Like first of all, when you're doing DMT, what's doing is, in his view, is it's breaking down all these filters that we have in our brain.

2:20:47 Speaker 1: Our brain is filtering out what we normally have every day to be able to eat, sleep, survive and get through the day right. And when you take DMT, it breaks down all these filters. So you're seeing maybe this code. Maybe you're seeing more stuff that's really here that we can't normally see in a normal state. And when you bring in a laser while you're in that state, it's like hyper focusing on one part of that. And maybe that explains why we're seeing this specific little code that everyone that are I think a vast majority of people who have done that exact DMT laser experiment have reported seeing the same exact code.

2:21:24 Speaker 1: Yes, and the code looks like this, this type form, this Japanese text form that's called katakana, which is very similar to the matrix to the matrix dripping rain code, which is a human that was designed by humans. So why how do you explain that what we're doing, we're going into the state and seeing this thing that must have been there before humans were here is a human invention.

2:21:53 Speaker 2: You know what else is really creepy about that? Is it some people who've been inside these deep underground for facilities where whatever you want to call it. I don't know why we didn't call these things these days alien technology. No, it's not really alien off world technology. No, they're coming from under the ocean. It gets hard to you know, even label these things. Whatever they've seen weird shit, right, tech that's deeply classified in these underground facilities. And they say that this exotic technology in some cases involves a script that like like on UFOs, there's a script printed in certain places, or they found there's this one case where a guy was shown a gauntlet like a big glove that had an information display on it, and when he looked into it, the holographic display was showing the symbols.

2:22:47 Speaker 2: They're the same symbols that people see on DMT in the laser beam. This is the claim that's been made by people who've done DMT and who've also been in these classified facilities and seen this script in printed on UFOs or on displays that they've recovered from inside UFOs, and it's the same script. So what does that tell you? It seems to suggest that the people who manufactured that technology have long since cracked this code and they use it themselves as some kind of a symbol system. Right, Yeah, well that's disturbing.

2:23:23 Speaker 2: Yes. By the way, speaking of lasers and laser beams, you know who invented those?

2:23:31 Speaker 1: Was it really the Nazis?

2:23:33 Speaker 2: They invented lasers for the sake of enriching uranium.

2:23:36 Speaker 1: Steve asked chagbt who invented the lasers?

2:23:39 Speaker 2: That's probably going to give us a politically correct answer, But I've read the history of this, uh huh, and it was done so Look the Germans.

2:23:53 Speaker 1: Theodore Maymon first working laser in nineteen sixty at huge research laboratories in malibuik California.

2:24:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, look up if he can do this in the background while we talk, Yeah, laser isotope enrichment. The history of laser isotope enrichment. Okay, so the first really functioning coherent lasers, as far as I understand, were invented by the Germans in the nineteen I don't know, late thirties, early forties for the sake of enriching uranium. And you know, what we're told is that Werner Heisenberg, you know, the German physicist Werner Heisenberg. He wrote a great book called Physics and Philosophy. He was a very deep thinker.

2:24:40 Speaker 2: But what we're told in the official histories is that Heisenberg was running the Atombaum program for the Nazis, and that they were using heavy water enrichment. They were using you know what they're so worried about in Iran today, gas centrifuges rich uranium. That's the official narrative that this is the nature of the Nazi Adam bomb program, and that we sent some operatives from Norway or something to blow up their uranium plants and it ended their atom bomb program. Well, there have been some alternative researchers like Joseph Farrell, who are citing other more technical sources.

2:25:22 Speaker 2: The name of this book escapes me. It's a whole book on the German Adam baumb program, which Farrell cites extensively. And there's an argument that the Germans had a second parallel adam bomb program based on laser isotope Enrichmond and this was the reason why they invented lasers. And these researchers point to two incidents that took place in nineteen forty four where it appears that the Germans successfully tested an atom bomb one over the Baltic Sea where there was this pilot. It was flying Allied pilot was flying across the Baltic Sea area and he saw this explosion which involved all kinds of different rainbow colors inside of it.

2:26:10 Speaker 2: And supposedly this is a characteristic of nuclear explosions that very few people know about. You have to actually have seen one to know that this happens. It's the fissile material like continuing to react inside the mushroom cloud and it produces a certain display of like multicolored lights. We don't see it in any of those test footages. You remember those old Adam Baum tests because it's all black and white footage. But so he described seeing this inside this explosion, and only a nuclear explosion could produce that.

2:26:42 Speaker 2: Then there was another one at a place not all that far from Berlin. I forget the name of the small town that it was near, but it caused an EMP blackout of all the electricity and communications in Berlin for like, I don't know, twenty four hours or something. So point being, you know, that's something very disturbing to consider that, Like if the Nazis had actually successfully tested nuclear weapons in nineteen forty four, why did they lose the war? Right? What is that about?

2:27:15 Speaker 1: What is that about? Yeah? This, I mean, so, do you think it's possible that there is a civilization of humans or something that is here inhabiting this planet that we can't see or interact with. Typically, I'm sure there's exceptions that it would be analogous to like us compared to an uncontacted tribe living on an island. That is so technologically.

2:27:55 Speaker 2: It's about analogy because the level of interference in our societies on their part is such that it's nothing like anthropologists trying to study an uncontacted tribe without disturbing it. I mean, they're basically socially engineering our entire world. Okay, okay, so if you look through the history of religions, right, I think we talked about this in our first conversation. I cover it at length and Closer Encounters and in Prometheus and Atlas. Working from sources like well, first of all, I mean I talk comparative religion myself.

2:28:33 Speaker 2: So I've read the Bible like in depth, and read the Quran and various religious scriptures. But also you know, I've read Jacques Valet's works Passport to Magonia, The Invisible College, an excellent book by William Bramley, which I can't mention enough times. Everybody in the UFO circle should read this book, The Gods of Eden William Bramley. Okay, nobody wants to think about these things. William Bramley Anyway, I don't want to repeat myself from the first show. But he started out studying war profiteering throughout the course of history, and he came to the conclusion that the beings behind the UFO phenomenon have been socially engineering all of our cultures from the earliest that we have any historical records, and that they're responsible for all the major wars and basically what's going on is mass exploitation of the human population by a hit and elite.

2:29:30 Speaker 2: So looking at all this, you see that they've been not just interfering, they've been designing human societies going back thousands of years.

2:29:38 Speaker 1: How does this fit into the simulation hypothesis?

2:29:41 Speaker 2: Good fucking question, right, Because there's more than one way you can interpret that. And this goes back to your question of if you're a person who has all the security clearances and you know all the darkest secrets and you've had to internalize that as part of your worldview, what's due to you? Right? Because one possibility is that the designers of the simulation themselves, that they're like the Okay, either like the architect or like the agent Smith's in the matrix. Right, that's one possibility, Okay, But there's another possibility, And by the way, I hope that one's wrong.

2:30:22 Speaker 2: I hope they're not the designers of the simulation because if you look at some of the fucked up shit that these entities have done, like for example, the cases in Brazil, nobody seems to like to talk about those these days. No, no, no. In the nineteen seventies in the Amazon Basin in Brazil,

2:30:38 Speaker 2: these Nordic UFO pilots terrorized and mutilated the population. They would burn them with lasers, they would chase them through the forest, they would kidnap people, they left mutilated bodies. There were people. I don't want to describe some of the things that were done to some of these people. Doctors went in there and they were horrified.

2:30:59 Speaker 1: By name of this event.

2:31:02 Speaker 2: I discuss it in closer Encounters, where I cite extensively,

2:31:09 Speaker 2: you know, primary sources on it, including Jacques Valais, who wrote a forward to a book about this. I think it was called UFO Danger Zone in Brazil or something. And Jacques Valai wrote the forward to that. Okay, and yet he I've never heard Valet in all these years bring up those cases again. And I think it's because it conflicts with an implicit agenda. Yeah, there you go forward by Jacques Valai, terror and death in Brazil, And yes, it really was terror and death, I mean, with utter contempt for these natives of the Brazilian backwater.

2:31:52 Speaker 2: These Nordics came in and treated them as less than slaves, almost as if they were engaging in sport hunting these people and just like sadistically terrorizing. There was no constructive purpose, you understand, Like, it's not like they were abducting these people to experimental notes. No, no, no, they were just terrorizing the fuck out of these people, coming up from out of the rivers in the Amazon basin and doing this to them. And they were described very clearly by all the inhabitants there, because the people down there are you know, mostly Indian DNA, you know, Amazonian Indian DNA, and so they say, you know, alone breblanco.

2:32:27 Speaker 2: You know, there were white people, blondes, white people. Right, they even thought maybe gringos were behind it. Right, But unless the US military had advanced so much, you know, from the nineteen fifties until the nineteen seventies that we had fleets of UFOs underneath the Amazon rivers coming up, you know. And I don't buy it. And besides, like I said, you see this all through human history. It's in the record of every single religion from the Hindu scriptures, the Mahamara and the Ramayana, and the wars between the Devas and the Ashuras, and how they nuked and leveled whole cities all the way to what's in the Bible in the Book of Ezekiel destruction of Sodom and Gomorah.

2:33:11 Speaker 2: It's all their same beings. Abraham deals with them, and they're so beautiful that when they first show up, he's so impressed by them that he's like, wife, take care of these people, like you know, they they're very they seem like they're very important. Those aren't aliens. And the same people go to Sodom to retrieve Lot right before God is going to destroy, before he's going to nuke Sodom. And these guys are so attractive, they're such beautiful men that these lectures come around the house of Lot, and they all want to rape these guys, and so Lot, the Great Prophet, the chosen Prophet of God, volunteers to give his daughter to be ripped by these men instead of allowing them to be motive by the crowd that's massed outside his house.

2:34:02 Speaker 2: Anyway, point being, they were tall, beautiful people. Okay, those are not aliens. Those are humans who are up to no good and have very advanced technology. So point being, I hope they're not the designers of the simulation. There's another hypothesis that they're people who figured out they're in a simulation a long time ago. Remember what we were saying about marsh and mcmonaga was saying, they're trying to find a way out. No matter what they do, they can't find a way out. And remember you said to me, I was talking about you know Brandenburg study of how many nukes had to have been detonated in Sdonia, and you're like, well, then the nukes destroyed the atmosphere, right, Well, there's another possibility that this was the first version of something like the destruction of Atlantis, where these giant pyramids on Mars were data centers and the Martians started to experi operience this geophysical information catastrophe and they nuked their own servers, trying to stop the thing as it was getting out of hand.

2:35:11 Speaker 2: But you know they got to it too late. Wow. So point being the people behind the UFO phenomenon, and I be labor that point. People behind the UFO phenomenon could be the first people who figured out were in a simulation and it totally fucked their heads. And as far as I can see it, they became very sadistic.

2:35:36 Speaker 1: Now, one of the things Career was explaining to me is that if there are people or organization, private companies aerospace that have figured all this out, they hypothetically would be more powerful than any world government, maybe all of the world government and maybe Russia, China, US combined militarily wise, and that would explain I mean he also goes on to say, how like top J two generals cannot get access to this stuff, meaning basically the highest lever levels of the US military can't even get clearance on this technology.

2:36:16 Speaker 1: I mean, they're like holding it hostage from the US.

2:36:20 Speaker 2: How do you suppose such a structure would have developed.

2:36:24 Speaker 1: I would imagine it would have started with the United States and DARPA after the World War two, and now through paper Clip and through other stuff we were doing, and it got so out of hand because obviously they wanted the government didn't want to have accountability over this stuff, so that's why they put it in the private sector. And basically they figured it out to an extent where it maybe took off and got so powerful that they realized, look, we don't need to fucking answer the US government anymore.

2:36:57 Speaker 1: We control this stuff. And maybe they're running around the world right now with impunity, doing things that we have no idea what the fuck they're doing. And maybe they're like, I think you made it. You described it in a way as if potentially these are the people that are waiting for China and Russia. China and Russia and the United States are like fishing upon fighting and they're waiting for them to get worn out and they just take over like a cat. Like a cat.

2:37:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, stats Sikha height deanst national Security Agency. It's a Nazi term. It's a Nazi term was imported into this country. National Security Act of nineteen forty seven established the National Security Agency, the CIA, and basically the entire infrastructure of our deep state.

2:37:55 Speaker 1: That's also when we change the name of the Department of War to the Department of Defense.

2:38:00 Speaker 2: Very cute.

2:38:02 Speaker 1: So get this, and we created the CIA.

2:38:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of people talk about paper clip. We brought thousands of Nazi scientists over here, and people talk only about the physicists for some reason, the rocket scientists, which will come to them and the bizarre shit that was going on with them. But there were also psychologists we brought here, and we brought biologists here. We brought all kinds of people. The psychologists who developed mk Ultra, eventually starting with Project Bluebird in the fifties and became mk Ultra in the sixties.

2:38:35 Speaker 2: Bluebird was worse. They were exprementing on children. These were Nazi psychologists who were brought over here to develop these behavioral sciences. They had been doing these things in the concentration camps. So we bring all these thousands of Nazi scientists over here between nineteen forty five and nineteen forty seven. Okay, you know what else is happening at the same time that nobody seems to talk about. You read the Spanish newspapers at the time, and they're saying bizarre shit. That Otto Skorzeni.

2:39:07 Speaker 2: You know who he was? So so Mussolini. So Italy fell before Germany, right, most of Italy except for the Salo Republic, which was in the north. And Mussolini was arrested and he was taken made prisoner on island of Ponza. The Nazis used psychics remote viewers to find Mussolini. They pinpointed him by the way. The Nazis used to use this to track naval fleets all the time. They would find the positions of destroyers and you know American naval ships using remote viewers. Anyway, they used this to find Mussolini island he was held on and they sent this super commando special forces leader Otto Skorzeni, guy with a mustache and a real labadass fencing, creepy looking guy, Otto Skorzeni.

2:39:57 Speaker 2: They sent him to retrieve Mussolini. There's this pictures where Mussolini has been freed. He's been extracted by the Nazis and he's with Skorzeni and Hitler. He's been brought back to Reich headquarters. Right, they took care of their boy. They found Mussolini pulled down. Yeah, look at some of the ones with it. Yeah.

2:40:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, look at that giant fencing scar.

2:40:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, let me tell you a little bit about this guy. So so look, so all these people were prosecuted in Umberg, right, yep, somehow this guy gets loose and he's in Spain from nineteen forty five to nineteen forty seven, h under Franco. So remember there was one fascist regime that survived the end of World War Two, Italy and Germany. Felbert Spain survived. Spain was a fascist regime that survived the end of World War Two and moreover as the mother country of the Spanish speaking world. The fascist regime of General Franco was connected to the fascist regime of Argentine, and there was a pipeline between Spain and Argentina in terms of Nazi personnel and assets.

2:41:07 Speaker 2: So this guy shows up. The Spanish newspapers are writing between forty five and forty seven, and he's with Franco on the Mediterranean coast of Spain, and they're launching saucer shaped rockets. So they didn't know what to call these things at that point. The only knew what rockets were saucer shaped rockets toward America. What happens in nineteen forty seven Roswell? Where is Roswell the only military base at that time housing nuclear weapons, the base from which Theonola Gay flew to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

2:41:45 Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So here's something really disturbing about Roswell. Corso's descriptions exactly. Corso's descriptions don't fit anything from an alien craft man. The guy was in charge large as head a foreign technology division of understanding foreign countries technologies, right, And what did he say was pulled out of the wreckage and then reverse engineered velcrow night vision? What else? Vl kevlar? Come on, man, aliens coming here from another like Star System are using like Velcrow and Kevlar and night vision.

2:42:30 Speaker 2: That's like their state of their own technology. There's a reason why nobody talks about Danny. There's a reason why. So how did Corso describe this stuff? And where's it documented for people to read it? After Roswell? Yeah, and he says kevlar night vision. Now, Joseph Farrell wrote a great uh study of Roswell and other associated incidents in the context of Nazi psychological operations. It's called saucers, swastikas, and psyops. But way, I have big problems with you. By the way, don't think I'm like you're trying to promote Joseph for something.

2:43:04 Speaker 2: I spent a couple of days with the guy. I got big problems with him. He's an Orthodox Christian high up in the Orthodox Christian apparatus and so forth. So you know Joseph Farrell's worldview at a deep level and mind couldn't be more opposed. Right, But I have to say he's done some very rigorous research. And the stuff that Farrell swastika saucers and psyops squares Andy's on the cover of that book. Actually, yeah, wow. And so Farrell was commenting on Corso and what Corso wrote and day after Roswell and He's saying, there's no way this is alien.

2:43:42 Speaker 2: There's no way this is alien. Nazi technology was anywhere between five to ten years in advance of ours. We know that. We know that looking at the history of technological innovation. For example, in computers, the Nazis had very small transistors already in World War Two. It took us another five to ten years to develop those. IBM had a German subsidiary called Dejomog. It was the German branch of IBM. The information was so compartmentalized. The German IBM was the head of American IBM, the parent company, and they had transistors that were much smaller.

2:44:16 Speaker 2: Right, So you can look across all the different fields of technology and see like, for example, the Germans testing night vision goggles in the African desert in nineteen forty two. They were like five to ten years ahead of us. Yeah, then when you look at the Saucer technology itself, you know, electro gravitics and the Saucer airframe.

2:44:37 Speaker 1: Who were the brothers that were working on this stuffs.

2:44:43 Speaker 2: So when you read the Twining Memorandum, General Nathan Twining's memorandum about the Saucers, about flying discs as they called them in those days, there was a fake version of that that was modified and it was leaked in the leaked in the UFO community, like I don't know, a couple decades ago, and it changed a few sentences to make it out like Twining thought these were aliens. The original Twining Memorandum has since been excavated, and where you read, you know, at the end, when he's drawing his conclusions and making recommendations, he says, basically, this looks a lot like not Nazi shit, and we really should find out where the Horton brothers are.

2:45:26 Speaker 2: Hmm, Okay.

2:45:27 Speaker 1: So any Jacobson talks about this a lot in her fifty one book. Yeah, and I've asked a lot of people about it and no one seems to buy into it. But she, I mean, I know you're familiar with it. Basically, the idea is that there was very good Mangala Mangalay surgically altered some children to go in that thing, and they progeria.

2:45:47 Speaker 2: The children remote controlled here progeria children progeria. Their heads get all swollen up, and they look old, even though they're they're you know, neotonous looking, yeah, but they look old at the same time their heads get all swore.

2:46:00 Speaker 1: And there was an E. G and G engineer who told Annie this, and she goes, why why would didn't you guys make this public if you found out that this was Russian stalin flown or Nazi stuff like, he would make them look terrible on the world stage.

2:46:13 Speaker 2: And he said, the reason we didn't let it out is we continued the research. We continued the reason absolutely right, absolutely, so where is this all coming? At the point of departure was our conversation about the deep state? And yes, if there's an entity, as Greer says, and here I agree with him, that's more powerful than all the governments of the world, how did it start? Where did it start? Started here? And started here? Because okay, here gets a little bit mind boggling. Again. On the one hand, we've imported these thousands of Nazis and we're engaging them in let's just say highly ethically dubious projects, which requires what it requires, a massive state security and classification apparatus to be put in place, right, which is unconstitutional according to our constitution, government of the people, by the people, for the people.

2:47:10 Speaker 2: There was that thing, the Bill of Rights. So on the one hand, we're bringing all this technical expertise in the projects they're working on were things they were doing in concentration camps, so we need classification for that. On the other hand, the saucer crashes and it looks weird. We don't know what it is. Maybe it's alien, we don't know what, but it's definitely a threat to national security. And moreover, the thing crashed next to our only nuclear base at the time, and it's got maybe some deformed children in it, and it's got all this super advanced technology, but still stuff we can understand that we were already working on.

2:47:48 Speaker 2: So you also need security classification for that. So here we have the National Security Act of nineteen forty seven, which effectively creates the deep state. Right but let me okay, so all right, I'll finish this point and then I'll go back to talking about the saucer as an engineering design where it came from. This deep state was already so autonomous from the civilian government of the United States, including our Defense Department, that when von Braun's team was working on the early rockets, the adaptation of the V two into a ballistic missile in the nineteen fifties in Texas, the Pentagon officials found out that the Germans were taking classified information to the border and meeting with Nazi officials coming from Argentina and Chile and Paraguay, meeting them in border towns in Mexico, right on the Texas border and giving them classified information from inside of our programs.

2:49:00 Speaker 2: So they confronted the German scientists about this, right, they were going to like chastise them whatever, I don't know, what could they do? Well, revoked their clearances. Well, who's going to build this shit? Right, But you know, they get on their case about it. Guess what the next thing that happens is oops, the Germans misdirected their missiles and they landed in Mexico. They shot some ballistic missiles into Mexico as a way to say to the Pentagon, don't fuck with us. You fuck with us again, We'll start a war with Mexico, so already by the nineteen fifties they had their hands on the balls of the US government to that extent.

2:49:36 Speaker 2: This is why you have Eisenhower coming out and making that statement as he leaves office, warning about the military industrial complex that's gotten out of hand and they're a threat to our democratic society, etc. Because he knew this stuff. And I'm convinced the main reason, Now, Kennedy made a lot of enemies for a lot of reasons. The Kennedy brothers did because they were, you know, engaged in prosecuting them mafia, and you know, there was the whole que An angle with a Bay of Pigs fiasco. But I'm convinced that the main reason the JFK was killed is that Eisenhower handed this information off to him, the UFO stuff, the whole deep state problem, and said to him, listen, man, you have to get this under control because these people pose an existential risk to our constitution, in our way of life.

2:50:22 Speaker 2: And Kennedy was going to shut them down. And even after he was executed, his brother would have pursued the same policy. So they were both taken out. And I've heard RFK on record in interviews say that he believes that his father was killed by a Lockheed contractor, specifically a Lockheed contractor. Now, why would a Lockheed contractor assassinate Robert Kennedy. There's only one explanation you can come up with for that. WHOA. Now, this is the place to go back to the saucers, Okay, Locke. Martin used to be called Martin Aircraft in the nineteen In nineteen fifty three, there were all these stories that came out in mainstream news publications about how these aerospace they weren't called it, they were called aircraft companies.

2:51:20 Speaker 2: In those days, aircraft companies have developed the G engine and they're about to roll off the assembly line craft that can defy gravity and get you, like from New York to Australia in an hour. There are all these stories about this stuff, and they quoted the chairman of Martin Aircraft Lear con There a bunch of companies, handful of companies, and the only one of those that's still active in the defense industrial scene is Martin Aircraft, which became Lockheed. Okay, okay,

2:51:53 Speaker 2: and then in nineteen by nineteen fifty five or so, this story disappears. This story disappears. And it's at the same time between fifty three and fifty five where these chairmen of these aeronautical engineering companies are making these statements that you have physicists holding conferences about cracking gravity. Right, Okay, so the United States cracked gravity circa nineteen fifty five. Townsend Brown was also developing, you know this this polarization effect.

2:52:26 Speaker 1: Lewis Witt. Yes.

2:52:27 Speaker 2: And the other company that has some of this tech as Northrop, which designed the B two bomber, which some people say the B two is a reference to the Brown buy Field effect that can basically augment the propulsion of an aircraft by lowering the you know, effect of gravity on.

2:52:47 Speaker 1: The aircraft ion wind.

2:52:49 Speaker 2: Yes, And so by nineteen fifty five they figured the shit out.

2:52:57 Speaker 1: Then it went black.

2:52:57 Speaker 2: Now let me ask you something. If we're looking at kevlar Velcrow night vision lasers, transistors and we see them in all these areas, Nazi Germany was about a decade ahead of us, and we cracked electro gravitics in nineteen fifty five. When did they crack it? There are reports that Okay, so there was a think tank in Prague under the direction of General Hans Kommler. It was a Nazi scientific working group, and I think it was based in Prague because they were collaborating with the Italians on this.

2:53:37 Speaker 2: The Italians were junior partner, and they wanted a country that was sort of nominally not Germany, right basically under Nazi control. And there are people who who claimed that Auto scores any member Auto scorz Anien. He came to the facility in Prague in nineteen forty four, toward the war's end, and he saw that the scientists working under General Kombler had developed a circular disc shaped airframe that was tremendously aerodynamic in its performance, and it had a number of interesting features to it.

2:54:18 Speaker 2: One is it had these vents that suction the boundary layer. It's called suctioning the boundary layer, where you know, air resistance develops around the edges of any airframe, like an airplane or anything that has sharp edges to it. And so first of all, by making a saucer shaped craft or already reducing air resistance, then they had suction vents that would suck in the boundary layer and redirect it, redirect that airflow into the propulsion system. They also developed the kind of metal that was perforated.

2:54:49 Speaker 2: They called it luft Schwam fly flying foam, and it was a special kind of metal that had lots of tiny holes in it also allow air to pass through it. A very light metal, which further reduced air resistance. The same think tank, the commler Stop Kamler staff in Prague was working on this nine to twelve foot tall acorn shaped or bell shaped reactor. It was a naz yes, it was a mercury thorium reactor whose purpose was to generate more energy than is put into it. It was constantly powered by ac energy with big cables and intermittently shocked with direct current, and it would rotate counter rotate drums filled with mercury and thorium isotope inside of the shell of this device.

2:55:49 Speaker 2: And what they realized in the commler Stop was we could take this thing and put it inside the saucer. Originally were powered by rotating jets, and so we could take this magnificently aerodynamic airframe and take this reactor and put it inside it as a power source, and there's your electrogravitic saucer. Invented in Nazi Germany nineteen forty four to forty five. We cracked the same engineering problems and propulsion issues in nineteen fifty five. So what does that tell you about all the rest of the stuff that was discovered in Roswell.

2:56:32 Speaker 2: It fits the pattern of the Nazis cracking this a decade earlier than we were there scientifically and technologically. And by the time we were there in fifty five, this deep state run by Nazis already had its hand around the balls of the civilian government of the United States and had already set up the National Security state to sequester this information.

2:56:56 Speaker 1: And this is kind of similar to the idea of that Specter organization in the Bond.

2:57:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Ian Fleming was an intelligence operative at a very high level. Yeah, he was involved in surveiling Martin Bormont. Ian Fleming was involved in the operation of tracking and surveilling Martin Borman, who was Hitler's chief financier. He was the moneyman of the Reich. And Bormon died three times. There's three different accounts of this guy's death. Death, Yeah, I mean twice wasn't enough. There's three different accounts of this guy's death. Right, we have to be convinced he's dead, except that from his from you know, beyond the grave.

2:57:45 Speaker 2: He writes a check in his own name through Chase Manhattan Bank in Argentina in nineteen seventy five. So Martin Borman is still alive in nineteen seventy five writing checks for huge amounts through Chase. By the way, a bank whose logo is a swastika. Pull it. Take a good look at the Chase logo. Put Chase logo swastika. Take a look at that. And who founded who found a Chase? JP Morgan. JP Morgan was business partners with the Dulles brothers.

2:58:21 Speaker 1: Holy Ship. It is a freaking swastika.

2:58:24 Speaker 2: Yes, keep going down. There's better depictions.

2:58:27 Speaker 1: Is there was there like an older version of it that was more even more similar, because I mean that's pretty close.

2:58:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. The Ford Motor Company also had a swastika and its logo before it became politically incorrect for support of the Nazis. Ford loved the Nazis.

2:58:44 Speaker 1: Ford Ford was building ship for them even after the war.

2:58:47 Speaker 2: Yes, we were. He was building tanks that we were blowing up on the battlefield for the Nazis. Ford was a virilent anti Semite. He put copies of the protocol so the Elders of Zion in the early Ford cars that were manufactured. You could like find it in the glove compartment.

2:59:05 Speaker 1: I've been Ford logo swastika. Let's see what that comes up with.

2:59:09 Speaker 2: So anyway, uh, the early earliest Ford logo swastika.

2:59:17 Speaker 1: Can you punch in a Ford Motor company? No, that's not it.

2:59:19 Speaker 2: No, that's it. No, that is a Ford Motor company. Ford Motor Company. That was their logo. Yes, that's their logo. I'm telling you the guy. Listen, find us some more of it Ford. I've found better ones of it before, I've put them in other interviews i've done. If you can find the drawing.

2:59:37 Speaker 1: That's that's that's cope. No, that's that's not it. Dude.

2:59:41 Speaker 2: Anyway, look uh, yeah, he was such a rabbit anti Semite. You know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is. It was a document about how Jews have a conspiracy to control the.

2:59:50 Speaker 1: Whole world, right right right.

2:59:51 Speaker 2: He took copies of that, mass printed them and will put them in the glove compartments of the cars that he sold to people, just so you could make sure everybody could read it big supporter of Hitler, so okay, but this is putting our finger on something important about this which I was trying to get out with Chase JP Morgan based in New York, was business Partners Morgan Junior, JP, Morgan Junior. It was business partners with the Dullest brothers, Alan Dalles becomes the head of the CIA, and Rockefeller,

3:00:24 Speaker 2: and these three together, Morgan, the Dullest brothers and Rockefeller funded the rise of Nazi Germany from America, okay, and they funded Mussolini too, So point being, there was already an American power base for the Nazis before the war, you see. So they had the connections already to fall back on, including people at the level of Rockefeller and Morgan, to help them move money. Why is Chase clearing a check written by Martin Bormann who died three times? Why in nineteen seventy five were they still clearing checks written by this guy?

3:01:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, from Argentina. And who is the guy Rudolph Hesse. So in nineteen thirty eight, I think it was thirty eight, thirty seven, thirty eight, something like that, the Germans engage in this massive expedition to Antarctica. It's been debated why did they go down there? What were they really, you know, going down there for? I mean, the simplest explanation is they had a world class navy and they wanted to build a naval base in Antarctica. But they brought a bunch of scientists with them and did excavations.

3:01:43 Speaker 2: Actually, one of the craziest things that they did is they flew over the ice sheet going up the you know, trans Antarctic mountains are huge, they're like the Himalayas. They flew along the side of these mountains and they dropped swastika flags from out of airplanes to claim the territory. So today in Antarctica, if you go to the trans Antarctic Mountains, there are a frozen swastika flags all along the mountain side claiming the territory for Nazi Germany. Anyway, Rudolph Hess was sent down there Antarctic Deutsch Antarctic Expedition.

3:02:17 Speaker 1: He was doing what was what was his title?

3:02:20 Speaker 2: Good question, I mean he was a military man, high level of military man, but good question, what was he doing? Because here's what happens comes back from Antarctica. This Hess right takes an unauthorized flight from Germany into Britain while the British were at war with the Germans already, So they're already like, I don't know if the Blitz had started yet, the bombing of London, the media, but they were already war with the British right. So Hesse gets in a plane, flies by himself to Britain, lands in the field and he's arrested and he says, take me to Winston Churchill.

3:02:58 Speaker 2: Take me to Winston Churchill. Two years earlier he was in Antarctica. Churchill refuses to see hess

3:03:08 Speaker 2: and then they come back to Hessay Churchill won't see you. He's like, well, I'm here to engage with like thirty members of your parliament who are interested in resolving our differences. Now, what historians won't tell you is that, you know, Hitler made like three or four peace offerings to the British before he declared war on them. Not just peace offerings. He made offers to collaborate with the British Royal Navy and like become basically military allies. They turned down all these offers. So hess says, I'm here to make another offer to your You know people in the House of Lords, so he had the numbers already, right, there was a list of British politicians who this guy knew would be sympathetic.

3:03:56 Speaker 2: So when Churchill turns them does so what did the British do? Churchill doesn't let him talk to these parliamentarians. They throw Hesse in prison and he stays there for decades and decades, and then after the Berlin Wall comes down, you know, once Germany becomes democratic reunification of Germany, he was transplanted to a German prison hess and no one was allowed to talk to him ever again for the rest of his life until he died. Why did he go to Britain two years after being in Antarctica? What was he going to tell the British about Antarctica?

3:04:35 Speaker 2: What might have been found there? You know?

3:04:38 Speaker 1: What do you think?

3:04:39 Speaker 2: And why did Why wasn't he allowed to talk to anybody for the rest of his life? Right, So it's interesting, what's your theory? Well, if you believe the empirical case that's been made for Atlantis in Antarctica, which Graham Hancock made in Your Prince of the Gods, his first book working off of the research of Charles Hapgood and Ran Flemuth and Colin Wilson also at one point found this theory compelling when he wrote one of his books on Atlantis that the only land mass that fits Plato's description is Antarctica.

3:05:20 Speaker 2: Plato describes an island the size of Libya and Asia combined of Asia and Libya combined in the Greek world in that time. In Plato's time, that was a description for a territory roughly the size of the first Persian Empire. The first Persian Empire is about the size of the continental United States. A little larger than that, Well, that's the size of Antarctica. Moreover, Plato said that Atlantis was in the world ocean. Well, what does that mean? The world ocean? He said it was outside the pillars of Hercules, which means the Strait of Gibraltar.

3:05:54 Speaker 2: But he didn't say it was in what's now the Atlantic. You know, people get this asked backwards. Is named after Atlantis. It's named after Atlas, not the other way around. It's not like Atlantis had to be in the Atlantic because it's the Atlantic. So people named in other words, the Atlantic the Atlantic because they imagined Atlantis had been there. Okay, okay, named after the titan Atlas. Right, So but all what Plato says is is outside the pillars of Hercules, outside the Strait of Gibraltar, in the world ocean.

3:06:27 Speaker 2: Well, what's the world ocean? There is one. There's a world ocean. It's where the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the Indian Ocean all meet in a single body of water in the shoreline of Antarctica. How did they get into a war with Athens? All the way down there they had conquered and were controlling the entire planet. So the Greeks think they're all so important, like Atlantis came here and fucked with us. Now Atlantis fucked with everybody. Okay. It was a global civilization. It's a civilization that used those one thousand, three hundred ton stones at Balbeck, global technical civilization.

3:07:03 Speaker 2: So, first of all, the only land mass that fits the size is Antarctica. Second, it's in the right place, it's in the world ocean. Third, Plato said that when you go to Atlantis, you can come from one side of the world, like South Africa, and crossover Atlantis and you're on the other side of the world. Where else fits that bill than Antarctica? Where you go across Antarctica and you can go from South Africa to South America. Yeah. Okay. Moreover, if you look at the research of Charles Hapgood, who actually he was a historian, but he started to develop interesting geophysical theories and he worked on contract for the CIA for a while.

3:07:46 Speaker 2: He was a history professor, but he had classified clearances and he worked with the CIA, and he developed this theory of earth crystal slippage that when you look at the flash frozen nanoths in Siberia who are frozen with the food undigested in their stomachs, yes, and certain other things, it looks like the crust of the earth slipped by several thousand miles suddenly. And this is why we have stories from various tribes who say that the stars fell.

3:08:15 Speaker 1: Look, the idea of this is called what is it, It's called like a geomagnetic pole flip or something like that.

3:08:21 Speaker 2: Earth crustal slippage is this technical term for this particular theory, earth crustal slippage. Charles hapcut And if that theory is correct, and that's how the mammoths were flashed frozen in Siberia and the food that we found undigested, frozen in their stomachs is food of a temperate climate. Okay, so it means that Siberia used to have a temperate climate. It was suddenly pulled toward the polar region, the north polar region.

3:08:51 Speaker 1: Where the Earth's outer shell can move as a hole over the mantle like the skin of an orange.

3:08:57 Speaker 2: It happens because the It happens because during ice ages, the Earth gets top heavy from all the ice that's weighed down the crust, and so it causes its slip at a certain point. And the fact that the food in the mammoth stomachs is food from a temperate climate means that Siberia was suddenly pulled into the northern polar region. If you look at hold on, if you look at Antarctica right, and you look at how Siberia slipped, it means as Siberia slipped suddenly into the northern Polar region, Antarctica slipped suddenly by several thousand miles into the southern polar region.

3:09:35 Speaker 2: So about two thirds of Antarctica would have been where Argentina is today. Argentina is a great place, great agriculture, great wine, great livestock. Right Atlantis would have been very habitable if Atlantis were Antarctica before the crystal slippage.

3:09:54 Speaker 1: So what it has also to linger on Atlants for a minute. According to this long chain in transmission with Solon and all this stuff, Atlantis would have been how long ago?

3:10:05 Speaker 2: Again, okay, I mean Plato's dates line up with a lot of other evidence that points in about ten five BC or twelve thousand years ago.

3:10:16 Speaker 1: Two thousand years a god. And this is also when people hypothesize the younger, driest cosmic impact theory would have happened, to which a lot of people think that the mammoth being frozen was from a cosmic impact that basically blocked out the sky.

3:10:27 Speaker 2: And cots an alternative hypothesis in any case. In any case, Antarctica fits Plato's description of Atlantis best. And so if you were to ask me what it has on the Nazis in general find in Antarctica. They found Atlantis, and they were obsessed with Atlantis. The entire Nazi elite, which came from out of the occult real society, and the Sula gazelle shaft Thula is a German equivalent of Atlantis Olti Mathula. It's a land mass at the north of the world, A vast land mass of the north of the world. Now we don't have any land mass to the north of the world, but what is the north of the world.

3:11:15 Speaker 2: The magnetic poles shift like every I forget, what is twenty three thousand years or something like that.

3:11:21 Speaker 1: No, it's slipping, like literally, what is it? We talked about it on that Jimmy CORSETI pops.

3:11:25 Speaker 2: It's migrating right now.

3:11:26 Speaker 1: It's like miles pera, which.

3:11:28 Speaker 2: Means a reversal is about to happen again. Okay, So when the Germanic people preserved this ancient myth that there was this Olti Mathula, a huge continent at the north of the world, it's probably dating from a time when the poles were reversed. Antarctica was the northern polar you know region, and vice versa magnetically magnetically, so the Nazis were obsessed with finding Thula or Atlantis. Yeah, and they may have hit Jackpot Circle nineteen thirty eight.

3:12:04 Speaker 1: But then wouldn't there be some sort of evidence of it if the Nazis were there back then, Like wouldn't some of the stuff there is? Will they find pyramids? What do they find there, Well, there's.

3:12:12 Speaker 2: Evidence the Nazis were there. I mean, look up Operation High Jump nineteen forty six. Admiral Byrd went down there with a whole fleet and they were they were supposed to be on an expedition that lasted months, and they ran into something that devastated the fleet and they retreated very quickly. And on his way back to you know, the United States, they stopped some port in Chile, I think, and Bird made this bizarre statement about how we have to prepare in the next World War to encounter aircraft that can cross from pole to pole with amazing speed.

3:12:55 Speaker 2: And so it looks like they went down there maybe because they knew the Nazis were down there, or tried to clear them out or something, and they had the shit beaten out of them forty six.

3:13:07 Speaker 1: What do you make of the argument that Plato was full of shit? And he wasn't the historian. He was just making up hypothetical allegories like the allegory of the cave, Like what was Atlantis? Just another philosophical allegory like the cave.

3:13:25 Speaker 2: Okay, let me answer in two ways. Okay, my first answer is that it could be the Plato never existed. It can completely disregard Plato. The evidence for Atlantis is overwhelming. Don't call it Atlantis. By the way, I'm pretty sure the Atlanteans didn't call it Atlantis. They probably had some other name for it, right.

3:13:46 Speaker 1: So other than Plato, what is the most compelling evidence?

3:13:50 Speaker 2: There's so much compelling evidence. I mean, first of all, the megalithic structures that have inexplicable engineering skill behind them in Egypt, on every continent everywhere. Look at Tiwanaku in Bolivia, the Aku, the Calisasia at Tiwanaku in Bolivia, the some of the older sites in Mexico, in the Yucatan. All of these sites exhibit the same enigmatic sakse Waman is another one, Oleon Tatambo. The walls at sase Waman and ole on to Tombo are made of insanely gigantic megalithic blocks which intersect with the blocks next to them, sometimes at twelve different points of intersection.

3:14:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, which means that either they had a way to liquefy stone and mold it as they were putting stones together, or something even more mind boggling. The stones were all pre cut like jigsaw puzzle pieces. And then put in exactly the right place. Well, either of those are insane from an engineering perspective. I mean even we won't do that. We won't. Maybe we can just barely now, but no one in our world would ever think to try to do something like that. And by the way, that type of building, it turns out it's extremely earthquake resistant.

3:15:06 Speaker 1: Yes, it is, because.

3:15:07 Speaker 2: It wobbles and then locks back into place. Yeah.

3:15:09 Speaker 1: Also the land, the ground that it was built on, something about it, the way they built the foundations of it. The stone is like super flexible and malleable.

3:15:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. And some of these blocks, like the ones at Baalbec two hundred ton stones nineteen cranes can't lift those things? Nineteen industrial click? Who did that? All right? So look, I mean it's written in stone.

3:15:29 Speaker 1: What do you want to call it? Atlantis?

3:15:31 Speaker 2: Like?

3:15:31 Speaker 1: I agree? I agree, that's evidence of a super advanced civilization that was here before we have any kind of explanation for it.

3:15:38 Speaker 2: By the way, other cultures have other names for it. Not all cultures call it atlantis. You find this in almost every civilization in the world, that there's a myth about a supercivilization that existed in antiquity, and that the people who lived there were demigods, that they were godlike people who then disseminated knowledge to other primitive cultures in the world. You find it this basic myth in the Mayans, you find it in the Egyptians, you find it in the Middle East. In Iranian civilization, which is something I'm very familiar with.

3:16:07 Speaker 2: I wrote a whole tome on the history of Iran. In ancient Iranian culture, they called this place ariyanam Vaja, which means the seed cradle of the Aryans, meaning where the Aryan race came from. That's what they say, and they say it was a place. This is a very interesting detail. So you have all these flood myths around the world, and the flood myths are connected to the myth of the destruction of the supercivilization. In all these cultures, including Mayan culture, Egyptian culture, the one exception is Iran, where the Iran we talked about this first time, first interview.

3:16:44 Speaker 2: Iran the name means Aran. It's a Middle Persian form of the ancient Persian Aryan or Ariyana. The Iranian ancient mythology is the only one that says the supercivilization wasn't destroyed by a flood. It says our homeland froze. Our homeland was an island at the center of the world. It was the central continent of the world, which is what Antarctica looks like. If you see you make.

3:17:10 Speaker 1: Up during the ice age, it would have been massive.

3:17:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, you make a globe centered on Antarctica. You take a globe and you flip it so you're looking right in Antarctica. It looks like the continent at the center of the world if you live there and you're you know, mapping the world from your perspective. So they say it was a continent to the center of the world and all of a sudden it froze.

3:17:30 Speaker 1: Over See if you can find a graphic depiction of what Antarctica would have looked like during the ice age, the last ice.

3:17:36 Speaker 2: Age, you're talking about the subglacial topography of Antarctica.

3:17:42 Speaker 1: Yes, that would be the technical way of putting it.

3:17:46 Speaker 2: So, no, that's what you want to look at. Look up subglacial topography Antarctica. They have found maps like the Orontius Phineas map and the Period map which show Antarctica underneath the ice. No one in recorded history ought to have been able to map that land mass subglacially. Look how big this is. Yeah, well it's larger than the continental United States.

3:18:12 Speaker 1: That's insane. Antarctica on the left, that connects down to South America.

3:18:17 Speaker 2: Yes, the amount of the closest point to any land is in Argentina. You think that's a coincidence. Do you think it's a coincidence when the Nazis went to Argentina that where they went was San Carlos to Barloche. That's Patagonia. It's the southernmost point of Argentina. That's close to Antarctica. Very convenient.

3:18:35 Speaker 1: How long you think Hitler lived after the war?

3:18:37 Speaker 2: He lived into the nineteen sixties, the sixties, and he died of Parkinson's related You know, people in Argentina describe having seen him with very bad parkinsons. He had lost the mustache right, and he lived I think a very miserable life. Because this is an important little anecdote because it says a lot about Specter. Yeah, or as they called it themselves, Dishpena. Their name for it was the spider, Dishpena, the Spider. The post war Nazi international, largely based in the United States and Argentina.

3:19:17 Speaker 2: So an anecdote about the Hitler. The thing is, when you look at Martin Bormont and his financial machinations in Latin America in the nineteen from the fifties to the seventies, and you look at Otto Skorzeny and how he was operating at an international level in that same time period, it seems that if you know, Hitler survived decades past the end of the war, which there's evidence he did, it wasn't doing anything important. I think the guy was put out to pasture. I think basically they said to him, you know, thank you very much, her Hitler, but please paint your sunsets, you know, go back, you want it to be a painter, right, enjoy painting your sun sets.

3:20:03 Speaker 2: We've got everything under control, sir, Yes, we've got everything under control. And eventually Eva Bron even left him, you know. And so I think the guy lived a pretty desperate and miserable life, having been given the cold shoulder by the people who were actually in charge of what they were conceiving of as a coming forthrike. People like Borman, Skorzeny, younger, more shrewd, competent people and people with a more dynamic vision. Right, give you an example which really is a mind fuck. There's a lot of evidence that Skorzeny played a huge role after the end of the war in tactical operations for these people.

3:20:47 Speaker 2: Remember Scorzeni was the guy who thought of using saucers in the fifties as a part of a sciop against America. Right, same Otto Skorzeny, fencing scar guy died nineteen seventy five. Shortly before he died in the early seventies, he worked with Mossad. It's been proven he had a very good relationship with the State of Israel. Otto Skorzeny. So how is it that Israel is sending Mosad and military intelligence operatives to retrieve Adolf Eischmann from South America to then stand trial in Jerusalem, Right, but they're working with Skorzeny in the early seventies.

3:21:27 Speaker 2: What did Aikman do to get on the shit list?

3:21:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a It is such a mind fuck. The history of this stuff and how useful certain people were, like Skorzeny to other Yeah.

3:21:42 Speaker 2: I think I think Aikmann was prosecuted because he ceased to be useful. Right, He probably pissed off the wrong guy. Yeah, yeah, and they said, okay, give him to the Israelies.

3:21:52 Speaker 1: And what do you make of this recent stuff that like Greer is talking about, with this psychic psionic stranger things type stuff where they're kidnapping people that are like left handed young from other countries, bringing them here to and giving them drugs, he said, dopaminergic drugs to summon these things and crash them. So if they're trying to hot so, first of all, what if these things are so advanced, how the fuck are they crashing them with psychic abilities? And second of all, who are these people doing conducting these operations in your mind?

3:22:24 Speaker 2: Okay, that's a that's a complex question, right, in multi part question. First of all, how are they crashing these things with psychic abilities? Will consider this, If the pilot is part of the guidance system of a UFO, and the pilot is integrated into the airframe psychokinetically, if you fuck with the pilot's mind, you're going to crash the airframe.

3:22:43 Speaker 1: Right Okay?

3:22:43 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, So you had a powerful enough psychic get into the head of a UFO pilot, you can bring a saucer down.

3:22:51 Speaker 1: And who is the pilot in your mind.

3:22:53 Speaker 2: One of these Nordics, you know in some cases with a bunch of these gray robots on board who handle the abductees that Nordics don't like to handle the abductees, because you see this in the Travis Walton case, Travis Walten case. They sent the robots to deal with him. Then he beat up the robots, big strapping guy that he was, beat up the robots right, and he went out into the hallway, and then the Nordics were like, man, we got to deal with this guy. We got a deal. Really seriously, we have to deal with this guy now.

3:23:22 Speaker 2: So it's like they us and then Whitley Streeber, So Whitley Streeber. Look, he's very clear that the people, the people who put the implant in were people European looking people. Guy and a guy, two guys and a woman who came into his house. One stayed outside or something, and two of them came in and they did this thing, put damn plant in his ear. People. Yeah, there's a Nordics. They used the grays to handle terrified abductees because who wants to do that job?

3:23:58 Speaker 1: What is the connection? Tweet and you you're the one who told me about this. By the way, before I conducted that Whilly Streeper podcast, you gave me a whole history of Whitley stream streamer over like two hours on the phone, which was fascinating. And I don't know anybody who has been gone so deep on the history of.

3:24:14 Speaker 2: I read his work like twenty years ago or something like that. It's been a very long but I you know, when I read it, I really read it like I read most things.

3:24:21 Speaker 1: And when I brought up you you mentioned to me,

3:24:26 Speaker 1: told me to bring up with Whitley about his history in Mexico, what he was, what was going on with him in Mexico. And I when I asked him that on the podcast, he said, he like straightened up and he's like, I don't want to.

3:24:35 Speaker 2: Talk about that. Well, yeah, because I mean it was horrific child abuse managed by Nazis in Mexico. They had a huge presence in Mexico. Remember what I was saying earlier, Yeah, is that paper clip rocket scientists would come to the border towns between Texas and Mexico and do data drops, handing classified information to their not to their fellow not yep who operated more freely in Mexico and throughout Latin America.

3:25:05 Speaker 1: So this was some sort of program to induce trauma in kids.

3:25:08 Speaker 2: Pre mk Ultra, pre mk Ultra. So mk Ultra was like the Light, the bud light version. They had shit before Mkultra that was even worse. Bluebird and other things before that that are basically extensions of the experiments on children that were done in concentration camps. That's what it is. And how did that?

3:25:32 Speaker 1: What did that psychological traumatic experience that he went through in Mexico? What was it specifically? What were they doing to him?

3:25:40 Speaker 2: Okay, now I heard this very clearly. He you know, he has this Dreamland radio program. Yeahne Streamer, what's been going on for I don't know, twenty five years or something like that. I heard him describe this in detail. So I don't know whether he wants to now not talk about it or say something that you know, it was another way. But I remember very clearly what he described. And he did this in more than one conversation. Once might have been a monologue, and once was in an interview with somebody, and he basically said they were taken to a mansion in Mexico that was run by the same people as this Nazi doctor in Texas associated with Randolph Fair Force Base.

3:26:22 Speaker 2: And he said they were put in this. Children were put in situations where they were shown mutilated bodies and horrific sounds were played to them in the dark, and they were made to believe that they had killed these people. Okay, put in cages, shown mutilated body parts exposed to chainsaws. Made the whole chaine like just horrific shit. That's basically meant to produce extreme dissociation and a fragmentation of the psychy.

3:26:57 Speaker 1: Okay, and how did this How does this connect to all his experiences with like having sex with aliens.

3:27:06 Speaker 2: Dissociation combined with absorption. Okay, these are two. Some will counterintuitively connect that psychological processes. One dissociation because you don't want to deal with the traumatic situation, and second absorption extreme attention. And you would think like these are opposite things, But there's a way to induce dissociation more or less simultaneously with absorption, and the state of mind that that produces is extremely syic conducive. Wow, So you you might perceive things that other people don't perceive, and you might be able to unconsciously exercise abilities that other people that are they're only latent in most people.

3:27:51 Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what it is. It's a it's a catalyzing of dissociation and absorption.

3:27:58 Speaker 1: For these beings, these beings that he was experiencing were real.

3:28:04 Speaker 2: Here's one of my problems with in Whitney's account, okay, is that he says that while one of these Grays was on top of him, and I believe this was in his cabin he says, this grays on top of him. I won't get into the details. He said he in the moments where he could even focus on anything but her, he sees that there's all these people standing around in the cabin room, and one of them is a CIA officer who he knew and recognized. Okay, I mean, does that mean that there's some agreement between some of the Grays and the CIA maybe, or does it mean that he was given drugs and there was some elaborately staged scenario where he was made to believe that it was an encounter.

3:28:55 Speaker 2: Take your pick. In any case, it doesn't look good. Don't look good.

3:29:00 Speaker 1: No, it does not look good. Crazy shit. Jason georgeh Onny thanks again for coming man. That was a wild follow up to our first podcast. I didn't think you get any crazy.

3:29:12 Speaker 2: It was indeed, Danny, it was.

3:29:15 Speaker 1: Tell people about your new book, where they can find it, where they can get in touch with you, all that good stuff.

3:29:19 Speaker 2: Good. So the cover of my new book is still up there, well, at least part of the cover. It's called meta Palamos Meta palamos, you could. It's uber komf in German, sort of super war, and it refers to a metaphysical ontological idea destructive departure and worldview warfare, which is kind of my reverse engineering of the basic concept behind the breakaway civilization, My reverse engineering the concept that motivates their activities, and it's a huge breakthrough in understanding the nature of psychological warfare.

3:29:59 Speaker 2: So but it's it's basically as I said at the outset, No no No, that's philosophy of the future. And the reason that there's a similarity in cover is that I intend meta pallemo No no no. Satanian is my last book, which one is this. I write it at a rather rapid pace. So Satanian came out in November. We're recording now in February. In February. February, Yeah, in the February and of February. Uh So, my latest book, the one that you have the cover up there on, part of the cover, is going to be out within let's say, two three weeks.

3:30:33 Speaker 2: And the reason that the yeah, if you can put the whole cover up there would be good.

3:30:37 Speaker 1: I emailed it to you, Steve.

3:30:39 Speaker 2: Anyway, the reason the cover has a similarity to the graphics for Philosophy of the Future is that it's meant to be a kind of companion volume to this. In Philosophy of the Future, I present an overview of my entire philosophical project in terms of my original concepts, and in Metapalemos I give an executive summary of my whole project, but in terms of the different domains of philosophy. So my thoughts, yeah, there it is my thoughts in the domain of ontology, my epistemology, my view on ethics, esthetics, and political philosophy.

3:31:14 Speaker 2: So it's divided up into those domains and gives you either an introductory overview or a kind of executive summary of my philosophical project. The last thing I want to say about this book is that I've included in this book, which is now I think my fourteenth book, Journals, which I wrote twenty years ago. So back when I was you know, reading Whitley Streeber twenty five years ago whatever, twenty.

3:31:42 Speaker 1: Now with Jack Sarfadi. I saw a photo.

3:31:43 Speaker 2: Yeah that was when exactly, that's when I met Jack check out. Yeah, that's right. So back in those days, for about three years, I kept the journal. It was a black notebook, and it's really the matrix of my philosophical thought. It's the it's the you know, the substrate from out of which my idea ism or the genesis of my career as a philosopher is in those notebooks. And I've included a pretty large selection of the entries from in there, which is a very dangerous and revealing thing to do, and it'll give people a lot of insight into what motivated my philosophical project.

3:32:23 Speaker 1: Gorgeous, what's up with Saturn on top of the devil Horns?

3:32:27 Speaker 2: That's a UFO, but it's interesting. But it's interesting that it read as Saturn. Well, that's interesting because Saturn is Kronos, and the Nazis called the Bell Project Project Chronos are project time.

3:32:42 Speaker 1: Wow, the Saturn Project we got to go do another podcast at dinner. I got a lot of more QUI, I got way more questions, but let's do it. You gotta get going, all right, Thanks again man, I'll like everything below.

3:32:54 Speaker 2: Thank you, Danny. It's been a pleasure again.

3:32:56 Speaker 1: All right, good night World,