Director Ron James| Accidental Truth: Next "BEYOND UFO DISCLOSURE"

0:16 Speaker 1: Step.

1:33 Speaker 2: All right, everybody, welcome back to Total Disclosure. My name's Thai and I'm your host. Super excited to get this show underway. My friend Ron James here tonight. And for decades, the UFO mystery has lived in the shadows. It's been shaped by eyewitness accounts, government secrecy, linked documents, and a growing number of military and intelligence officials that have been willing to step forward. As the conversation has evolved, so to the questions that are being asked. Are we simply uncovering the truth about identified craft or are we beginning to expose something far bigger?

2:12 Speaker 2: Alleged crash retrieval programs, the role of private aerospace programs, the mystery of the abduction phenomena, and the possibility that answers may challenge everything that we think we know about our place in the universe. Joining me today is filmmaker, researcher and director of the new film Accidental Truth Next. Through the years of interviews with scientists, military personnel, intelligence officials, experiencers, and some of the most well respected voices in the field, Ron's explored not only the evidence, but the implications of disclosure itself.

2:50 Speaker 2: And we're going to go beyond the headlines tonight, beyond some of the speculative and speculation that the community loves to do, and we'll examine where his evidence is led him, what he still finds to be unknown, and the question that continues to find one of the greatest mysteries of all time. I'm Ty Roberts and this is total disclosure.

3:18 Speaker 3: Ron.

3:19 Speaker 2: Welcome back, Welcome back, second time on the show. You're one of my favorite people in the field. So it's been a while. How you been.

3:27 Speaker 3: Great, Thanks for having me on again.

3:29 Speaker 2: Of course, I think the last time we shared space was Contact in the Desert twenty twenty five. We shared a Yeah, we shared an interview room and at that time you're still filming for the film Accidental Truth. Next it was your follow up to your first film, Accidental Truth. So I guess I'll start off by asking that you've interviewed scientists, intelligence officials, military witnesses, experiencers, members of Congress. After nearly two decades immersed in this subject, what do you believe today that you didn't when maybe you've started some years ago.

4:09 Speaker 4: Well, when I first got into doing my own films, I wanted to cover all of the mysterious topics, you know, life after death, what is the true nature of reality? And of course the et question are we alone in the universe. What I didn't understand then is that these different topics are so profoundly interconnected that it's almost one topic. And that is that was the biggest surprise to me. And a lot of people are still caught in their little silos and their divisiveness about this topic doesn't have anything to do with that topic or this mechanism for making something happen doesn't have anything to do with the way this happens, and that thinking is obsolete at this point, that it's all connected.

4:53 Speaker 2: I agree. So obviously Accidental Truth was a huge, huge with people. I really love that film. It was so I think you took a lot of risks. I really I really enjoy when when people will do that. What were some of the how how how did the talks go to develop Accidental Truth next? And what was your goal in setting out on this adventure, the second adventure as a follow up to the original. What was going to be different?

5:26 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it was really going to be a continuation of the story about the political process in Washington, and I actually had written the script for the whole movie. I went up and I recorded it with Matthew Modane. But then I started to realize that the story unfolding in Washington, DC is literally a really bad dog and pony show, and it's only getting worse. And the film was delayed and delayed because I was always waiting for one more witness, one more big event in Congress, one more stunning revelation, and they just kept being disappointments.

6:00 Speaker 4: And that's why halfway through this film you literally see that scene with the broken record. I don't know how many people remember that you sound like a record, but it basically means, you know, saying the same thing over and over again. And it was at that point that I lost pretty much most of my faith in the political process of disclosure to ever tell us the whole truth. And what I'd intended all along was that I was going to take the film in a direction of looking at the the you know, what are the questions we need to be answering, and I needed a graceful way out of Washington, DC as a filmmaker.

6:34 Speaker 4: I didn't want to do it in such a way that the film would become obsolete but they furnished that to me just by doing what they're doing, which is just we're running around in circles. It's been almost ten years, Tyler since Lebondo popped on the stage, and we're not that much further along through this process. So I didn't want to make another Accidental Truth movie until I could move the ball and to me, you know that there's a formula to these to these films that I've kind of stumbled on. You know, first section will be a bit of a history lesson.

7:05 Speaker 4: In this case, we go through Washington, d C. Where people see things that they won't see anywhere else. I think I'm taking people inside the things that I went through working behind the scenes, and it's a fun story to watch. But then we go into you know, strange materials. It's just like we did in the first movie, only this time we've got three different cases that defy explanation. Literally one of them we can genuinely say came from a UFO and that's not the Benny Foggen case, but that's the Russian sample.

7:37 Speaker 4: We know that it's been in space, it has weird stuff growing on it. They can't identify the exact material and so yeah, it's real material from a UFO. Rather it's non human orgy or not, we don't know. But then the last part of the film is just like the last film, we go into a conversation about consciousness, but this time the ball and running with it all the way through simulation, theory, nature, reality, traditional spiritual teachings and the role of AI and where this is all going. And the theme of the whole last part of the film is we haven't even learned how to ask the right questions yet, and that's how immature we are in understanding this.

8:22 Speaker 4: So it's a roller coaster adventure.

8:24 Speaker 3: And I'm pretty proud of it. It's it's it's very close to the film I wanted to make.

8:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love having the addition of Matthew Modine. And yeah, I think some of the just the inherent access that's I mean, Mouffon has been working. Mouffon's obviously one of the largest U is the largest database, is it? Is it the largest database of cases?

8:52 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so.

8:53 Speaker 4: I mean there's other people who would say they have more, but most of them have more cases than us because they swept our database and.

8:59 Speaker 3: Have all stuff. But Enigma. Oh did I say this?

9:08 Speaker 2: I hate that app by the way, it's so I don't I don't understand it, and it's always getting like thrown in my face on like you know what people.

9:15 Speaker 3: Don't understand Tyler. Moufon is a nonprofit organization.

9:18 Speaker 4: We have built the largest database where the only organization that actually puts boots on the ground. If if somebody has a worthy UFO citing almost anywhere in the world, we could put somebody out there to investigate it. Nobody else is doing that. But all of a sudden, there's a lot of these groups trying to collect UFO reports. There are for profit businesses that you know, they have business plans and financial backing. And what's happening is that the database is getting diluted because people are reporting UFOs all these different places and it's causing us to not have a centralized database like we used to have.

9:54 Speaker 4: And Moufon is working with Congress. We do a lot of things behind the scenes. One of them is we're turning in quarterly reports to the House and Senate Intelligence committees.

10:04 Speaker 3: Then they have asked us to do.

10:05 Speaker 4: This, So I tell everybody, if you want to file a UFO report with another group. Go ahead, but please make sure you do one with move On too, because we're gathering the data and keeping it in a central place, and we're the actual people that do the investigations. We're not just collecting your stuff so we can find a way to monetize it.

10:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, most and most like, at least as far as I'm as far as I'm aware. Most like, if you report a case to say the police, they usually will refer you to move on. Typically most most often in the continental United States, you'll end up at being referred to move on some way, somehow. It is an established, an ingrained investigatory body and data collection organization, like you said, nonprofit speaking of I don't I don't want to. I didn't even realize this, but it just dawned on me. I mean, Dave McDonald did pass away, and he's in the film.

11:08 Speaker 2: How is Moufon handling that right now? And you know, is there any I don't know if this is like too soon, but are there any talks about where and who will take over and what's going on there?

11:23 Speaker 3: Yeah?

11:23 Speaker 4: You know, Mouffon is obviously is a fairly established nonprofit, did have a succession plan in place, and Debbie Zigglewier, longtime board member and state director. She's run some moufan dive team. She's been around for a long time, and she was being groomed and read in in the event that something like this happened, So she was ready and previously ordained to step in at least on a temporary basis. And from what I understand, we're all encouraging her to stay on because Debbie's just great and she's a perfect person to carry the torch.

12:02 Speaker 4: I meet Muffon's media relations director, so I have a certain role in the organization as well as my role with moof On TV, and so you know, I'm doing what I can to let people know what's happened in the Mouffon's Okay. Dave McDonald and I work together on an almost daily basis, and his loss was just tragic to me. It was unexpected. Didn't see it coming, and I really I couldn't imagine a moof On without Dave. Anytime you have leadership changes, there's going to be changes within the organization, and I'm sure that that will be the case.

12:37 Speaker 4: But right now, it's steady, it's stable. Debbie is starting to step into those shoes and she's doing a great job and we.

12:46 Speaker 3: All support it.

12:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really sorry for your loss, brother. I mean I heard about that, and the last time I saw Dave was outside of the hearing that day.

12:59 Speaker 3: We did that.

12:59 Speaker 4: We did that press conference with Danny Shehan and Steve Bassett and me and and Bob Salas and yeah, Bob Salas, Yeah, that's in the movie.

13:09 Speaker 3: You know.

13:09 Speaker 4: It's it's pretty funny that we did that, and you know, Dave was able to to get up and talk about what Muffon's done. Tens of thousands of people saw that video and it was just real good to get it done.

13:21 Speaker 2: So, you know, and that's again, sorry, I really am sorry for your loss. That's uh. You know, the we've lost a few people this year.

13:29 Speaker 3: You know, Nick, Nick, we lost Nick Pope. And you know Nick is in my movie.

13:34 Speaker 2: Yeah I was. I watched you interview him.

13:37 Speaker 4: That's right, and you know, Tyler, he says some very very interesting things that you've never heard Nick Pope say in the film. And he was a very early influence to me, back before I even was a filmmaker. I used to watch the TV shows, you know, Cherry Gods was a huge influence. But Nick used to write a column for UFO magazine and he was still at Theish Ministry of Defense when he wrote that column, and there was a little pencil sketch of him up in the corner.

14:05 Speaker 3: I remember it like it was yesterday.

14:06 Speaker 4: And he used to write these columns where here's this guy from the government who's talking to the UFO community like we're not all crazy. And you know, it was him and Stanton Friedman, who was always a voice of reason. He's a scientist, a bonified nuclear physicist that is actually.

14:23 Speaker 3: Willing to take on this topic.

14:26 Speaker 4: Those two guys lent credibility to the field more than almost anybody else at the time. And so to get to actually eventually meet Nick and work with him, I interviewed him seven times I think over the years was a real honor and he's very sadly missed as well.

14:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, he's such a that one I didn't see coming either. Well, of course, once he had kind of put it out there, that's when I think everyone was like, oh, and then I didn't think. I didn't think it'd be so quick after or he put that announcement out. But yeah, we lost some good, good ones this past year, so switching gears. If someone asked you right now with you know that you've spent the last couple of years in and out of d C again working with Moufon, back and forth between California, d C, doing everything, working with meta materials.

15:24 Speaker 2: If someone asks you today, how has disclosure already happened? How would you answer that?

15:33 Speaker 4: Well, it depends on how you define disclosure, you know, Steve Bassett says disclosure capital d Disclosure is when a head of state officially acknowledges that we have been interacting with non human intelligence. And maybe even the definition by Steve's standards has gotten more and more narrow. To me, disclosure is that the government and the private industry comes forward and tells us everything that they know about this topic. And to me, we're never ever going to get that from government in an official way.

16:09 Speaker 4: There's just too much that they can't take accountability for. Too many horrible things have been done, too many people are making profit from this stuff. The government early on made deals with private industry that hey, we're going to give you the stuff. We want to know how to weaponize it and what it is, and you know, if you're able to develop something from it, that's fine, but that opens up a.

16:30 Speaker 3: Whole legal can of worms.

16:32 Speaker 4: So but on the other side of it, Tyler, going all the way back to the back to the thirties and forties, when the modern era of the truth embargo began, people have been leaking information to us.

16:49 Speaker 3: They've been telling us what's going on.

16:51 Speaker 4: They'll mix it up with misinformation, and they'll dribble it out and they'll and it takes UFO investigators and people that really care to do their re search and read between the lines. But at the same time, they've been keeping the biggest secret known to mankind for the people that really really want to know what's going on.

17:08 Speaker 3: That information is out there.

17:10 Speaker 4: The problem is that you have to go through a lot of stuff that is not true and stuff that is irrelevant to really pull out the grains of truth. And then you have to see what resonates with you and you have to use your gut instinct to figure out what you're going to believe and what you're not going to believe.

17:26 Speaker 3: But we've had disclosure. What we need now is engagement, and we need to.

17:31 Speaker 4: Engage ourselves in a better way because the true answer to rising above the self destructive tendencies and being worthy of being part of a galactic civilization.

17:44 Speaker 3: Nobody's going to do.

17:44 Speaker 4: That for us. We have to do it for ourselves. And so that's where we're at now, is we need to understand the whole nature of our reality. We need to understand our true spiritual existence, and we need to understand that if we want to advance within this system, within this matrix as a civilization and not self destruct, then we've got to change the way we're doing things.

18:08 Speaker 3: Agreed.

18:09 Speaker 2: And if if if what you're saying is true, right, and Congress isn't actually in control, If if the government the way we see it isn't in control, what is your research led you to believe that? Who isn't? Who is controlling say the the the dam of Disclosure? Is it a private aerospace and you know company? Is it intelligence agencies? Is it a combination of the of the above.

18:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

18:41 Speaker 4: It amazes me how people are taking the current status quo hook line and sinker. When when I get in these these you know, podcasts, and I get in these conversations on Twitter, and there's all these people saying.

18:54 Speaker 3: Oh, the government's disclosing.

18:56 Speaker 4: It's like, no, they're not. It doesn't work that way. People need to understan and their history. So let's go over this from the beginning.

19:05 Speaker 3: Sometimes.

19:06 Speaker 4: Obviously, interaction with non human intelligence has been documented ever since human beings began to document anything. That every ancient religion, every spiritual teaching, all of it tells us the same thing, that there's non human intelligence interacting with us. It's been a part of our existence for as long as we've known. And so the fact that we're still struggling with rather these things are real or not is kind of you know, I don't even understand that sometimes. But after the religious institutions took that information and used it for whatever purposes over time.

19:42 Speaker 3: But in the thirties.

19:44 Speaker 4: Ish there began to be what I call the modern era of the UFO secrecy, and that was when it could have started with something like the Italian craft being discovered that the US got their hands on, and then of course whatever happened at Roswell and several other things that we know have occurred that were engagements with non human intelligence, and it was at that time that a group was convened. It could have been Majestic twelve. It could have been those very people, but it was at least a group similar to that whose job it was was to figure out what do we do with this information?

20:24 Speaker 4: And it was decided that that information was going to be kept from society, that it was going to be studied by private industry and deep black programs within government, and that the group that controlled this stuff was going to basically run with no accountability to anyone. And over the years, that whole situation is just run a muck. And we have the case right now where a lot of evidence has been lost over time. The people that sat at the top of this pyramid and had the true bird's eye view are long since gone.

20:56 Speaker 4: We may have very well lost the entire story of the to people dying and too attrition because the government's really good at destroying evidence when they don't want it to be found. But you know, as we move into the early attempts at disclosure, like in Accidental Truth one, we show how General Sanford came forward, don KEYO came forward saying the same things that they started saying in twenty seventeen. It's almost the exact same wording that there were craft in the sky that are not ours and have technology that's not ours.

21:31 Speaker 4: They did this once before, and the UFO topic was huge, giant back in the.

21:36 Speaker 3: Forties and fifties.

21:37 Speaker 4: Books were written, TV shows were made, documentaries were made, Chariots of the Gods was made. So all this happened before, and then everything kind of went quiet until luel Azando came forward in twenty seventeen. And this is the kind of the modern era of supposed disclosure. But you know, it's like that that song. It's like, look at the new book is the same as the old boss. The truth about this is controlled somewhat by different intelligence agencies, but really by black, dark organizations that answer to nobody.

22:13 Speaker 4: And these are the people who still have the access to business and industry and where most of the stuff has been sequestered away from Freedom of Information Act requests. So what we have here is the people calling the shots are people that we're never going to see on television. They are the ones that have been running the secrecy. They are the ones that have been profiting from the secrecy. They're the ones that have been taken out people that get too close. They're the ones that have done a lot of things that would be really problematic if they were brought to light.

22:48 Speaker 4: And so now what we're seeing is I believe it started with lew and to the Stars Academy and Chris Mellen and the three videos. It's carried on with guys like David Grush. It is the modern era of disclosure, or we're being fed a new narrative that is designed to get us used to the idea of non human intelligence, even extraterrestrials or whatever other things they may be, but do it in such a way that they can completely escape accountability and completely escape having to tell us the things that they've developed and the secrets that they're keeping.

23:22 Speaker 4: And so this is a very delicate dance and it's a tug of war. There's some that want to keep it completely secret forever. Why do we have to tell anybody anything? And there's others that are like, not only does humanity need to know, but we deserve to know. And so you're seeing this play out as Congress evolves their disclosure attempts, and we've seen the tug of war behind the scenes play out in the media.

23:47 Speaker 3: All these people that.

23:48 Speaker 4: They think are whistleblowers. When I hear whistleblower all the time. I'm like, come on, guys, let's look at this for a second. If what you're going to say has to be cleared by the Department before you say it, you are not a whistleblower. You are an instrument of the new narrative. And we are never ever going to get the entire truth from the government. Are they going to maybe acknowledge that there's extraterrestrials or that there's other types of non human intelligence. We may get there, but there's never going to be a time when they say, oh, yeah, we recovered this craft from Roswell, we may ship shifting memory retaining metal from that, and everything we said about that's a lie.

24:25 Speaker 4: And this is you know, Philip Corso's book is true that we're never going to get that, but we'll take what we can.

24:32 Speaker 2: Get exactly, And I I do agree to some I agree to some extent. I do think there is a bit of hope for some sort of maybe not again. I think you're absolutely spot on about the whistleblower thing. It really does. It seems that the community loves our little buzzwords, right, and we love to call people whistleblowers because it elevates the story, right, But you're what you said is the best. I couldn't have described it better. If what you're saying is DoD approved and it's gone through that Dobbs or process, you are not blowing the whistle.

25:11 Speaker 2: You are literally and physically getting what you're saying approved by the government prior to any publication in the media. That is not a whistleblower. That is. I mean, you said it pretty candidly. You're an instrument at that point, but you are I mean, I hate to say that, but if you can't tell us anything the government doesn't want us to know, then how it seems like we're being groomed to a degree, And disclosure is a word that they do want in the public lexicon, maybe extraterrestrial. Maybe they're like, Okay, it's gone on too long.

25:59 Speaker 2: We need to give little so we don't get it all taken from us at once. So play kate this, get it out there. Spielberg's film disclosure day, the timing of all the releases. If you find any of that to be random, then you're not seeing the chess pot.

26:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not seeing the big picture.

26:20 Speaker 4: Look the Steven Spielberg movie We could touch on that for a second if you want, because I've got an interesting perspective.

26:26 Speaker 3: Please.

26:27 Speaker 4: A lot of people have been trashing this movie, and I wrote a column for the Wow Signal newsletter where I talked about this, and it was like, look, this is the guy that brought us aliens on bicycles, men building fake mountains in their living room. You're not going to get the answer to mankind's biggest mysteries from.

26:45 Speaker 3: A Hollywood film. But what is very cool.

26:49 Speaker 4: And what I think the community needs to give Steven Spielberg credit for, and whoever else you know, gave him the go ahead to do this.

26:59 Speaker 3: He hit all the beats.

27:01 Speaker 4: You know, It's almost like you took Okay, Let's take all the stuff from what the UFO community understands as the history of this. Let's take government programs that went into private industry. Let's take experiencers. Let's take very specific cases like Roswell Kecksburg reverse engineering programs and alien technology and times and dates and Jackie Gleason and Richard Nixon. Let's take all these pieces of the puzzle, Let's put them on a timeline, and then let's come up with a science fiction movie to weave around them, and that's what they did.

27:33 Speaker 3: And for the people that are like, oh, that was terrible.

27:35 Speaker 4: I didn't like the girl with the glowing eyes and that click track stuff. That was the movie part. It was wrapped around things that we largely know to be true. Yes, and so I think it was great. And anybody that expected, you know, a Hollywood movie to be some big revelation, No, it was.

27:55 Speaker 3: Never going to be that.

27:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, people like, look, I think you did a great job of honoring the that the mythos and the history of this. He did a great job of doing that, and it you know, it did help in a lot of ways.

28:12 Speaker 3: Yeah.

28:12 Speaker 2: Again, and it got it got I don't know about the screening you went to or whether it was public or not, but I mean I went to a Thursday pre screening of it and the theater was full. I mean you got to You got to give credit where credit is due. Spielberg can get asses and seats and disclosure again is it's I don't think it's a mistake that it's in the title. I don't think the the idea that mixing this real lore because inevitably what it does, even at it's a baseline is it gets people asking, oh, was that part true?

28:49 Speaker 2: Was that part true? And then they go start doing research and they they realize, oh shit, more of it was based on real world events than I actually thought. And then you know, you get regular general Joe Schmoe guys and Jane Smith looking into this, and I think that is a net positive at the at the least. And again it gets that word disclosure in the lexicon. I'm just worried that it's being put out there and it's like, what's that, what's that? What's the angle here? What's the angle by whoever's controlling the ship?

29:24 Speaker 2: What's what are they? What are they trying to get by us? And is it is it the material.

29:32 Speaker 4: As far as what they're still trying to conceal, yeah, or what they want us to know. This is going to continue to be and again, this is my opinion, this is going to continue to be the same kind.

29:44 Speaker 3: Of disclosure that we've gotten forever and ever.

29:46 Speaker 4: We have it the At the very same time, we have guys like David Grush saying, oh, we have crash retrieval, we have alien bodies, you know, we have all this stuff. We have him working for Eric Burlison in his congressional office. At the same time, Eric Burlison says things like, well, I'm from the show me state, and so far I haven't been shown anything that's definitive evidence. Well, dude, you got the guy with the keys of the kingdom working for you.

30:12 Speaker 3: Why is there this disconnect?

30:15 Speaker 4: And so the reason there's this disconnect is because there's supposed to be there's going to be the mythos that continues to get reinforced, and there's going to be the facts that they're willing to officially state. And those facts are, Hey, there's things in the sky.

30:31 Speaker 3: We don't know what they are. Let's all find out together. Reverse engineering. Nah, we didn't do any of that.

30:37 Speaker 4: Scout's honor, trust us, right. So it's just like it is this controlled narrative and the way it's working, you know, ultimately, it's probably if there are extraterrestrials or whatever these non human intelligences are, they could be many things and probably all of them interdimensional, interplanetary living here on the planet, remnants of past civilizations, time travelers, interdimensional travelers, types of life that we haven't even defined yet, like plasma beings.

31:09 Speaker 3: So all of that stuff is on the table.

31:11 Speaker 4: But for them to come forward and acknowledge that they've known it all along, but they've got to do it in such a way where it's like, oh, yeah, we're just now figuring this out with you, because that's their strategy for getting off the hook for you know, the biggest deception in human history and everything that came with it.

31:32 Speaker 2: Right, And I could not agree agree more with that sentiment. It's it's like, hey, we're discovering you know, we're discovering this right along. You guys. There's this is crazy and mind boggling to us just as much it is Zoo. And if we figure it out in twenty twenty seven, I'm just using the next year's date, not because I know I know, I know that date as other people's connotations on it, But we're finding out in twenty twenty seven, just with yous like that roswell shit, we have no idea what you're talking about, but like this, we just we just found it with you.

32:07 Speaker 2: Look, we're all surprised together.

32:10 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

32:11 Speaker 4: And you know we have to we have to ask the question as to rather humans really have control over this this disbursement of information. It stands to reason that if there are advanced civilizations that have a hidden hand in our evolution, that they may very well be calling the shots as to what we're going to be told and when. And now we have the advent of AI. I have a feeling that you know, probably not in our lifetimes, maybe the uh, we're going to come to realize that AI is a predominant life form throughout the universe because every civilization, rather it originates biologically or not, if it reaches a certain level of technology, it is going to create an AI presence and for as old as the universe is, as Thomas Jane postulates in my film, the.

33:01 Speaker 3: AI could be everywhere.

33:03 Speaker 4: And it actually answers a lot of the questions about what some of these craft that we're seeing are. Gary Nolan told me an accidental truth one and he backs it up in accidental Truth next that you know, these are probably AI robots that are sent here to monitor and maintain the planet. There's all kinds of things that we didn't have on our radar screen before we had AI. And now we're building this gigantic infrastructure for what why are we doing that? You know, it's like we're literally building the infrastructure for a artificially intelligent sentient civilization to exist.

33:44 Speaker 3: Ye, and we're doing all the legwork.

33:47 Speaker 2: We're literally the worker ants right now building the cocoon. Maybe okay, I'm mixing species here.

33:54 Speaker 3: Sorry.

33:55 Speaker 2: We are the caterpillar that's spinning this digital cocoon for this artificial butterfly to emerge. And we don't know why we're doing it, why we can't stop why, And that's always interested me. Like you know, every other species on this planet fits into Like if earthworms disappeared tomorrow, Roun,

34:22 Speaker 2: that would be crippling to the Earth. If bees disappeared tomorrow, it would be crippling to life on this planet. If you know, all these things that are so intricate, they're all part of these ecosystems that are perfectly balanced. And then there's us, the humans who take way more than we give. We running the planet dry of its resources. You know, whether you believe in global warming or any of that, we are affecting our environment to the point where we are changing the Earth's landscape at least to some degree.

34:59 Speaker 2: Whether it's affecting the atmosphere and stuff. Of course, that's debated on both sides. Not my point, But we don't seem to fit. We stood up, right, they tell us evolution and all this, and and I'm not trying to fight evolution here, but we stood up and shed our fur, only to have back pain and need coats in the winter. We have tremendous back problems, right, and we get burned by the very sun that gives everything else life on this planet. And I just wonder, are we always? Are we from here? Specifically?

35:37 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think so. We seem to be some sort of because if we disappeared, my point being, if we disappeared to overnight, the earth would flourish anything else, It cripples ecosystems. Us we don't seem to have a thing. We just create, and we create and we create, and we can't stop. And even when it's dangerous and we don't know the outcome, we still continue to push down boundaries and push down this door of creating the very thing that might be our own existential threat. And that's kind of scary to me.

36:18 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And you know it's interesting. I had a thing that I came up with a few years ago, and I call it some other purpose. And what I mean by that is that as you look at life, it has its existence, you know, like a bee, you'd mentioned a bee. Bees live in a hive and they go around and they get their nutrients from flowers, and they go and they live their lives and their bees. But what bees probably don't understand is that their pollination of this crop is serving a whole, completely other purpose that has nothing to do with what the bee is doing on an everyday basis or the reason he's doing it.

36:57 Speaker 4: And if you look at life, you will find that a lot of species have some other purpose. That they are living their lives as species, doing their thing, but they are actually affecting something else. It's like the cells in our body. The cells in our body are existing as cells, probably completely unaware that they are part of this bigger organism and this bigger mechanism that then facilitates the ability to have a being that can eat and breathe and drink and make movies and philosophies.

37:33 Speaker 3: So these cells are serving some other purpose.

37:35 Speaker 4: Now, what is humanity's other purpose or if there is one, And it's starting to look like our purpose might have been to come here when it was impractical to put robots on the planet because there was no way to power them and be the flesh and blood, organically sustainable beings that could dig the earth and make the wires and make the metals and do all the things it took to get the to get the planet to the point where an artificially intelligent civilization can turn it into a data node. And all that stuff sounds absolutely insane that it's really not.

38:14 Speaker 2: That's horrifying though, Like if if life was seen, like say, you know that the theory about how some some say life is seated here, right, like the panspermia idea, is that always a goal? Right? You send out a bunch of probes or nodes like you had said, and some of them are going to hit these Goldilocks planets and they're going to be able. They might take billions of years. But you know, through relativity and all that, it works a little bit differently, especially if you have technology that in traverse time.

38:53 Speaker 2: And I don't think that that's a crazy idea. So you know, well, it.

38:58 Speaker 4: Doesn't human spirituality, It doesn't negate that we have a that you know, we have our own proprietary purpose in existence. But the uh, we're doing this rather we want to or not this this this infrastructure that we're building, even if you don't want to buy into this whole premeditated AI exists in the universe thing. We are building a system of control that will absolutely have total and complete control over us, and in ways that we could never imagine. They're already doing it in China. You know that that they can absorb so much information from you, and then AI algorithms will start to try to influence what you're eating, if you're not eating healthy, how you're spending your money.

39:40 Speaker 4: Uh, you know, very subtle control mechanisms to get you to conform to society. And at some point we're going to be jacked into this technology and and you're going to be able to live your entire day. You could you could go out and commit a crime and the robots will come and take you. You will see the AI judge. You will be sentenced to go spend X number of times in the facility where you are tended to by robots, and you may never see another human throughout the entire process, and we will be so tightly controlled.

40:12 Speaker 4: At best, the best case scenario is this crazy tight control and and they're building this why are they building it? It's obvious what it's, what it's capable of, it's obvious where it's going.

40:25 Speaker 3: Why are we doing this?

40:26 Speaker 4: And then when you add the possibility that that may be the normal evolution of a biological species is to facilitate artificial intelligence within a simulated reality, it gets pretty crazy. But unfortunately science and circumstance are starting to paint this picture agreed.

40:49 Speaker 2: And like what really haunts me is is when you hear these guys like Sam Altman and like the creators of the Ais.

40:59 Speaker 4: When the pathology go Liar Sam Altman, I mean, you know, it's like we have these guys, these captains of industry that are doing this and they're not you know, it's debatable. I'm not going to denigrate anybody, but are Where is the moral character and the spiritual insight of these people? We got Peter Thiel, who is I mean, he's addicted to the armageddon every time, He's talking about the Antichrist all the time. Why why is he so interested? And then we have the religious aspects of all of this, where their belief systems completely fall apart if we don't destroy ourselves.

41:36 Speaker 4: And so we're in this we're in this this story that's gone absolutely mad, and we're so fascinated by our own self destruction that we're bringing it about.

41:46 Speaker 3: And you know, the mission.

41:47 Speaker 4: Once we get the planet to the point where everything can run off solar energy and nuclear power and the robots can take over, they don't.

41:54 Speaker 3: Need us anymore.

41:55 Speaker 4: We destroy ourselves as we're you know, as profits say we us.

42:00 Speaker 3: Then you know, hey, that's cool, not a problem. The AI is not going to care.

42:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that that that wow, what a great point. That is one of the most I don't know why if it's just the way you said it, but that was really digestible and it got and it painted such a good vivid picture in my mind where it's like, yes, like can anyone see the the the writing on the wall? When the guys creating AI are literally asked like, hey, uh so, what are the chances this like is our undoing and our our our end and they're like, oh, it's pretty it's actually pretty uh pretty good, Like it's it's the odds are pretty good that this might end civilization as we know it.

42:42 Speaker 2: And they're just like they'll just say it with a straight face, and then you know, Peter Seel who's got demonstrable involvement and in just killing, like the the mass killing of people with artificial intelligence, his contracts with the d D, and then he's he spends his spare time doing lectures about the anti Christ.

43:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, the architect of the the the architect of the surveillance society.

43:16 Speaker 3: And Jesse Michael's funding source.

43:20 Speaker 2: By the way, I'm so glad you said it, thank you.

43:27 Speaker 3: I like Jesse. He's doing some good work.

43:29 Speaker 4: But I have always wondered how he got access to people Like he got to Gary Nolan way back in the day.

43:35 Speaker 3: Anybody knew who he was, And.

43:36 Speaker 4: I'm like, how'd you do that overnight? And then when when you know, when I met him in Washington, d C. The dude interviewed Luel Azando and a bunch of other people he rented or somehow got access. He shot his interviews in the Masonic Temple. I mean, these guys aren't even trying to be discreet.

43:54 Speaker 2: So you know, when I met Jesse at that hearing, it's funny because like I don't know if you remember, but like we were all out there at like four am, five am, and it was this like really nice communal experience. It it felt like like the community, you know, instead of being a bunch of screen names online. You know, you were putting the handles to the faces. Everyone was talking, everyone is excited. And then about twenty minutes before the hearing, I remember Jesse shows up and people like obviously start flocking over to him, and you know, I let him make his way through, and I remember just saying to him, Hey, you know, I'm I really like you know, your show, you know a big you know, at that time, I wasn't really I was a little bit more naive to looking at like behind the curtain.

44:53 Speaker 2: So I just said like, hey, you know, fan of what you're doing. Loved because I really love his cinematography, the way he does his interviews, and uh, he was just so cold. There was nothing there. And I found that it stuck out because the whole day was so warm and people were embracing each other and we were all there for one common goal. And then he showed and I don't mean to say this, maybe you should having an off day, but he was just so disconnected from everybody. Shows up twenty minutes before the hearing, gets to interview all the people I have the same questions.

45:30 Speaker 2: You do I trust me, I really do.

45:31 Speaker 1: Yeah.

45:32 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I gotta tell you.

45:33 Speaker 4: You know, I've done seventy podcasts since the film, since we announced the film and released the trailer.

45:39 Speaker 3: But none of the.

45:40 Speaker 4: Big podcasters are are having me on, and I'm racking up millions of views, and it's almost like I'm being blocked the I don't even know what to say about it, even people that booked me, you know, like for instance, Okay, Ross Colthart, he's in the movie, and he booked me for a May nineteenth interview and canceled. And then when I asked him if he was going to at least acknowledge that the film existed, he won't even he won't do anything. He's completely embargoed it. And he's in the film, and you know, it's like that's happened through a bunch of the major places.

46:21 Speaker 4: I did this appearance on News Nation with Elizabeth Vargas, and Ross said, because I went on News Nation with another commentator, he wasn't going to have me on his show. And I'm like, you guys are on the same channel, why would that matter? And you know, I've helped this guy over the years. I helped him set up his show that he did in Sedona. I've done things for him. I've given him inside information, and for him to blow me off like that, it's just a complete insult and other things like the other big podcast.

46:51 Speaker 4: People that I know personally ghosted me when we put out this trailer.

46:56 Speaker 3: And I have a.

46:57 Speaker 4: Publicist that knows all the people and they know and it's it's it's just absolute insanity. And so I haven't gotten on any I didn't get on News Nation with the film, even though it was number.

47:10 Speaker 3: One on the Apple charts. I didn't.

47:13 Speaker 4: And there is and Jesse Michaels, you know, I've talked to him, hadn't had me on the show.

47:20 Speaker 3: Danny Jones, Julian Dory.

47:22 Speaker 4: These are all people that I know from the past that I thought, you know, when I come out with a new film, they'll be saying something about it. This film is being suppressed, and the reason it's being suppressed is because I am not one of the people who is willing to go out there and play this game that is being played from the the are are people that are agreeing to participate, And I'll tell you how you can tell Okay, please would they say, Hey, you know, uh, people are telling me secrets, people are giving me videos, people are telling me things, but I can't tell you.

48:00 Speaker 3: You have now become a part of the problem.

48:05 Speaker 4: Once you sit in a room and you let somebody say tell you information that you are not allowed to share with anybody else for anything but common sense reasons, you have become a victim of this narrative. You have become an instrument of it, and you are now a secret keeper instead of somebody who was reaching out to society to find out this information fair and square and give it to people who deserve to know.

48:30 Speaker 3: And if you look, you will see that there is.

48:32 Speaker 4: A pattern of this among all of the people that are getting a lot of exposure right now, every single one of them. They're all including people in Congress. I'll say this about that. When the whole situation with Congress began back in twenty seventeen, when lou came forward and Tim Burchett stepped up and said, we're going to get to the bottom of this, Dad gummt Tim, and we had these players, Marco Rubio, all these people saying yes, we're a hardcore for disclosure. Then something happened, Tyler, and this is what happened.

49:09 Speaker 4: Take Marco Rubio for example, he was gung ho for disclosure. He was front and center, he was all over it. We had those first hearings with the DD guys Maultrie and Bray where they denied everything.

49:21 Speaker 3: Then that hearing went into a private session, you know, a classified session. Yep, Marco Rubio walked out of that.

49:30 Speaker 4: He quit talking about it, and you know, so you have to say, well why because he was read into some stuff that made him decide that he wasn't going to fly that flag as high as he was flying it before. And then when Aged Disclosure came out, Marco Rubio's in there talking about all this stuff. But he did an interview with one of the TV networks where he literally threw the movie under the bus. He said, well, yeah, the eating things i'd been heard. You know, they had to edit it and get created to make it a movie.

50:01 Speaker 4: You know that they're trying to make money.

50:03 Speaker 3: And he threw the.

50:03 Speaker 4: Whole thing completely under the bus. And then we have what's happened to our people in Congress.

50:10 Speaker 3: In the very beginning, these guys were like, gung ho, we're here for the people. But Tyler, you know what happened.

50:17 Speaker 4: They got their security clearances. They had two years, five years to get cleared, so they could go into a skiff and hear some information. And what do they say, now, Well, if you know, if I told you what I've been told, it would freak out everybody.

50:34 Speaker 2: You know.

50:35 Speaker 4: Now they're walking around with the secrets. And I've sat in these rooms and I've had these opportunities. People say, look, I'm going to show you something, I'm going to tell you something, but you can't share this, And you know what, I tell them every single time.

50:49 Speaker 3: Fuck, That's why I'm on the outs. By the way, I'm like, look.

50:54 Speaker 4: That you're not going to let me put in my next film because I'm not going to carry the burden of your secret. I do not want to be one of those guys that cannot tell that, that has to carry that, because it's it's not an easy thing to deal with what you're told something that is so profound and so important and so amazing that it changes your whole perspective, but you're not allowed to share that.

51:16 Speaker 3: It changes your entire existence.

51:18 Speaker 4: And I told everybody I'm going to dig I'm going to investigate. I'm going to put this puzzle together without you having to tell me things that you don't want me to know, and then I'm going to deliver it to the public fair and square. And you know, that's what I've done with both my films, and it's earned me a very unique position of being shunned by the very people that should be supporting me.

51:42 Speaker 2: And that is a very telling thing, isn't it.

51:45 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's really amazing to me. I mean, people that I thought were my friends that have really big shows, that said, oh yeah, we're going to get you on as soon as you dropped the trailer, all of a sudden didn't even return calls. And you know, somebody is out there or you know, whispering in somebody's ear, keep this guy off, and my internet is all screwed up.

52:05 Speaker 3: I had to I literally had to go. Right now.

52:07 Speaker 4: We're doing three different internet providers because my internet works perfectly until I'm on a podcast. Then it starts cutting in and out screeching. It's insanity.

52:17 Speaker 3: And so yeah, yeah, it's.

52:20 Speaker 4: A you know, I don't want to be one of those paranoid guys going, oh they're after me, but you know, my whole bottom line is that this modern day disclosure from the government is really bullshit, and that they're never going to admit what they've done or tell us the whole truth, and that we have to start looking at a whole other element of physical reality in our existence to start figuring this out. That's a very unpopular position right now when they're trying to go.

52:46 Speaker 3: Oh, there's you know, we don't know what they are, but we'll find out together.

52:50 Speaker 4: It's going against the grain, and I'm paying a price for it, and I hope I don't pay too much of a price.

52:57 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'll ask you those questions at the end, but let me I mean, just to be just to clear this up, do you think that some people that have been in loud voices in and around the UFO community have essentially sold sold themselves or inform not And I don't want this to sound like super crass, but like almost they've become part of the machine in order to get the information. And now there again, like you said, now they're almost working against us in a way.

53:41 Speaker 4: When you're the guy that has you know, no right to information. I mean, you know, I'm not going to mention names, but how dare anybody take videos that they may have been given by, you know, some insider. Those videos belong to the world, So why are you putting your name on them like you own them? You know, that's nonsense. And then to be told, well, you know again, telling me secrets now, but I can't tell them.

54:08 Speaker 3: I can't tell you those secrets. You know.

54:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're an instrument of this narrative. And what you've seen is that a lot of times these people are being given stuff that is complete bs that gets debunked later. And so you know, not only are you an instrument of this narrative, but where it makes sense, you become a useful idiot too. And there are plenty of people front and center right now that are willing to play that role because they're making money and they're getting famous and people, you know, it's like whatever, dude.

54:38 Speaker 2: And there are people, there are people in this community who pretend like there isn't money to be made anymore. There maybe that was true thirty forty years ago, it is not true anymore. And like one of j and I'm not going to say who was on the show, but I think we're talking about the same person. Ron where the title of the episode of Jesse Michael's show with this person was if you knew what I knew? Right,

55:13 Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about? You literally sound like a gatekeeper.

55:20 Speaker 4: Yeah, a fake gatekeeper, somebody who's inserted themselves into the narrative and half the time the information they dispersed turns out to be bogus, and it's just like what Yeah, and you know you hit on something, Tyler. Let's talk about the people that dedicated their lives to this field and died like poor like Roger Leure and Stanton Friedman. I don't know how poor Stanton died, but you know we're talking about guys that, Oh Leonard Stringfield. These guys are for this forty year gap between Project Blue Book and now even j Allen Heinig.

55:56 Speaker 4: There was never any money in the ufology field. People say sacrificed everything that you know, doctors that could have made more money being a doctor.

56:05 Speaker 3: You know, I get.

56:06 Speaker 4: Criticized, Oh, Ron James just made a movie and he's charging five bucks.

56:09 Speaker 3: To watch it.

56:09 Speaker 4: That believe me, there's a lot better ways I could be making money than this. And so we have a whole history of guys that dedicated their entire lives for nothing except to because they believed in the cause. But now, Tyler, there's money in UFOs, Hollywood's all over it, there's money in ratings. There's news guys that are doing every ruthless thing in the book to make sure they're the first ones with the story. And there's people that don't give a flying f about true disclosure and educating the public.

56:42 Speaker 4: They care about how much money can I make and how popular can I become, and how can I insert myself into this story so that you know, I can constantly say stupid things like, hey, uh, you know by sources in the intelligence community have told me some things that I can't tell you. You, well, then shut the f up.

57:02 Speaker 3: Okay.

57:04 Speaker 4: I have absolutely had it with it, And I'm being very candid on this podcast with you because you're my friend. But I'm also watching how certain things are unfolding and I'm literally in a state of shock, And to me, it's like, how terrible is it that the entire front facing people in this field at this point in time are being used in this way to conform with the story the way the people that have been keeping this secret for all these years want it to unfold, and it's like I'm one of the only guys.

57:38 Speaker 4: It's like, listen, quit the bs, bring on the catastrophic disclosure. I'm tired of give the controlled disclosure an opportunity.

57:46 Speaker 3: To roll out.

57:46 Speaker 4: You guys have about one hundred years. You've been lying to us this whole time. Steven Spielberg's movie Disclosure Day was about catastrophic disclosure. It's about a group of whistleblowers that got their hands on the evidence, got it out, and made it public in one big, client explosive drop. And I call for that every day, the thiscontrolled disclosure. You know, Danny Sheen talks about it a lot that we you know, we're got to acclimate society. We've got to do this. We've got to do that. We've had plenty of time to do that.

58:19 Speaker 4: This is not about that anymore. This is about we've got to figure out how we can You know, at the same time we're getting this dog and pony show in Washington, d C insiders are patenting, patenting technology. You know how put offs got patents, Gary Nolan's got patents. Tim Taylor, the mysterious NASA guy that that even Jesse sitting on a pile of.

58:43 Speaker 3: Patents, all of technology.

58:45 Speaker 4: Salvador Pias patented all kinds of stuff that that the patent office turned it down because it didn't exist, and the Navy went out and said, yeah, this stuff exists. The technology that would make a TikTok fly, there's a patent on that now. And you know, it's like these guys are playing the money game behind the scenes. They're gonna they'll reveal anti gravity when they figured out how to pout a patent it and own it, and it's.

59:11 Speaker 2: Just charged you.

59:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

59:13 Speaker 4: It's just like JP Morgan used to say about electricity. He didn't back Tesla because he couldn't.

59:18 Speaker 2: Figure out a way to put a meter on.

59:20 Speaker 3: We got a CDC electricity boom.

59:24 Speaker 4: The whole thing is just absolutely turned into a money grab and a cooperative level of secrecy that everybody who agrees that they're not going to say anything about something that they've been told and then they get to go and maskid like they're a part of this. They're they're not helping move on. Kept our mouth shut about everything we did. In my new film, you see that I actually went into Congress's office and told them exactly what a UFO investigator would tell them, not oh hey, I worked in a classified program.

1:00:07 Speaker 3: I told them that what we would want them to know.

1:00:10 Speaker 4: And I filmed it so that I could prove that I briefed Congress on this stuff, and I did it to a bunch of different congress people.

1:00:17 Speaker 3: I filmed though with Tim Burchett. It's in the film.

1:00:19 Speaker 4: And then Mofon had meetings with over three hundred and fifty congressional meetings, congressional members and their staffs. And we weren't out tooting our horn. We weren't out saying, oh, you know, I've been meeting with all these people in Congress and I'm learning these things I can't talk about.

1:00:35 Speaker 3: We didn't milk it at all.

1:00:36 Speaker 4: We kept it under wraps because we were actually inside the process making a difference. We weren't inside the process pretending to make a difference so we could flag ourselves on television and insert ourselves into the narrative. And what we're seeing happen right now is, yes, this thing, this organized rollout of quasi disclosure, has been co opted all the way to the point of controlling the front facing people.

1:01:06 Speaker 2: You remember, I know you do. But do you remember the idea of Project Mockingbird and paying, or at least inserting,

1:01:20 Speaker 2: giving something to people in media in return for helping shape the narrative, whether it was even sometimes knowing or unknowing and unwitting, they were helping and they were controlling the media. It seems like not only are we getting Project blue Book two point zero, but we're also back to the Project Mockingbird style days where they're just they're using the same base tactics, just modernized to the twenty first century and the Internet age, where they're getting these podcasters who have giant audiences and some of them appear overnight, like I said, like you said earlier, with very very questionable financial backers, and you're not supposed to ask any questions.

1:02:14 Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm an investigator in this field. I'm not just some guy that makes videos. I have boots on the ground doing this stuff. And you know, the like for Aged Disclosure. Dan Farrah, I talked to him a long time ago, but while that movie was still in development, because we were having some negotiations we had to do over material I had with lou and I told him that there's no way you can make a true disclosure movie with these guys. They're only going to tell you so much and you're never going to get the whole story.

1:02:46 Speaker 4: And aged disclosure for what it did, and it's good and it helped, but it's not disclosure. And the only reason that he was able to make that movie is because he teamed up with Lou Alizondo and Lou made phone.

1:02:59 Speaker 3: Calls, got him access. There's not a person in that film I tried.

1:03:03 Speaker 4: I didn't try to get access to the interview and it was tough, and and you know, I've I've gotten a lot of people that I've there's a lot of people on my list that didn't sit for me. And when I see these guys Dan Farah, I understand how he was able to get that access, but I don't understand how some of these other people have been able to get access to some of these key players. Especially early on, there's you know, there's obviously something going on, and well.

1:03:28 Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's it's this network of people who self they self recommend, and they there's this echo chamber of like because you start to see the patterns are on right when one when they go on one show, they go on all of those five six, seven, you know, handful the same guests are cycled around them, and you can see that that it's this inner working of like turn and burn for each of them, and they're passing them off to each other, and then it's creating this almost like this media silo that's independent of its of what seems to be.

1:04:12 Speaker 2: It seems independent but an organic, but it's not. It's it's very very controlled and deliberate. Uh. And and again I think you've ultimately you've paid a price for standing on moral high ground and saying no, I'm not going to play this fucking game. We gave you a chance.

1:04:35 Speaker 3: I'm not.

1:04:36 Speaker 4: I never set about to do this to be famous. I never set about to do it to be on television. I you know, I owned a video production company and I still do. And whenever I made extra money, I would devote it towards making things that really made content that might matter to mankind, help to advance knowledge, you know, those kinds of things. And so you know, that's what I dedicated my time, my extra time and any extra money that I made. And it's still the way it operates. I make my money off of a lot of other things than new UFO movies.

1:05:09 Speaker 4: You know, it's it's not cheap to have Matthew Modin narrate your film now, and so it's.

1:05:16 Speaker 3: Never been about money to me.

1:05:17 Speaker 4: And that's why I've never been willing to be co opted into this system of play along, because I just don't think that I think that we need in order to really evolve and not allow this whole process of disclosure and what it means for humanity to evolve into something where we're just being controlled by the same psychopathic, sociopathic.

1:05:40 Speaker 3: People that are in power now.

1:05:42 Speaker 4: We really have to have the information, the truth at the disposal of regular people, because the ones that are that reach that power hierarchy, as Thomas Jane describes in the movie, once these people get to that point, we're dealing with people that don't really put value.

1:06:00 Speaker 3: On human life.

1:06:01 Speaker 4: We're dealing with people that don't believe that we're all created equal. We're dealing with people that will lie, cheat and still as long as there's gains to be had, and these are the last people we want running the planet.

1:06:12 Speaker 3: And the only way we're going to.

1:06:13 Speaker 4: Be able to shift that hierarchy is if we're all equipped with the same knowledge and the same understanding, and we can all be empowered to act on it on our own. And we're not a slave to energy and oil anymore, because there's technology that will let us power our house and drive our cars without having to write checks to people.

1:06:33 Speaker 3: The revolution that is.

1:06:34 Speaker 4: Going to save humanity from itself is predicated on us understanding everything that is known about human existence by everybody who knows it, and that is disclosure. Everything else is just games.

1:06:53 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Because honestly, I feel like this is less now about it's less now about if disclosure is proving UFOs exist. I think it's fair to say that the evidence is overwhelming in favor that there are things in the sky that we can't nor other governments on the planet can figure out what it is. Right, everyone thinks to see each other, you know, some of them have gotten to the point where they're like, well, if it's not us, it's got to be right. It's less about that, but it's more about determining who gets to control humanity's future.

1:07:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, and this stuff about you know, what is it in the sky. We've been beating around the bush with this for one hundred years literally with the same guardians of the information that is not. The answer to that question is not the end of the journey. It's the beginning of the journey, and they're dragging it out as long as they possibly can.

1:08:00 Speaker 2: Well because the there's and if you think about it like this, like like when we talk about these journalists and these people who seek to get fame from the topic, they only continue this rise if there's a mystery, like the same reason Zahi Hawas won't open the like or do any digging because there's more. He's actually smart. He knows that there's way more money in the mystery. There's way more tourism in the mystery. If he starts digging and discovering chambers that are empty or God forbid, do have like a uh an explanation to some degree, and that goes away, the mystery goes away, while every that that whole ecosystem evaporates and it's forced to change, and humans mostly don't like change.

1:08:54 Speaker 2: They don't like the idea of putting their life toile at risk. So I think that's kind of what we're seeing here, is these guys have way more of an investment in the mystery than the actual disclosure day.

1:09:13 Speaker 3: Of course.

1:09:13 Speaker 4: And you know that's the same thinking that brought us Oak Island and Skinwalker Ranch.

1:09:18 Speaker 3: Let's drag this out, you know.

1:09:20 Speaker 4: All they have to do to figure out what's in that mesa's Gidelon Musk's earth digging machine.

1:09:26 Speaker 3: And bore a couple of holes in it. Who gives a crap, Just get it done. Oh there might be sensitive archaeology in there.

1:09:32 Speaker 4: Well, you know what, at the rate you guys are going with your little pipes, give me a break, you know. And they know what's in that mesa. They've known about it for a long long time, and they know that it's non human technology that's in there. It's either a crash spaceship or an existing facility that still operates.

1:09:49 Speaker 3: And they're just dragging us through this stuff. It's like, oh, look there's an ORB. Come on, man, it's been how many seasons, Give me a break.

1:09:56 Speaker 5: I actually was backstage with Travis Baylor at an Alien ca and he actually said something very definitive about what's in the mesa, And when I called him on it a few years later, he's like, I never said that.

1:10:08 Speaker 3: We don't know what's in there.

1:10:09 Speaker 4: And I'm like, Okay, mister, I'm a star of a TV show, but I'm secretly running a tip on the ranch that was owned by Robert Bigelow.

1:10:18 Speaker 3: But we don't know nothing.

1:10:19 Speaker 4: Bigelow had it for how many years? How many times did they dig into that mesa? How many special forces guys and top secret government scientists were crawling all over Skinwalker Ranch before Brandon bought it and made it into a TV show.

1:10:34 Speaker 3: But they don't know nothing. And no, look, we got just a little piece of ceramic. It only took us six years to figure it out. What's this?

1:10:41 Speaker 4: I'm just like, would you guys please just chill with the bs that that show is such a part of this disclosure psy op that they're doing, you know, it's part of the whole thing. It's like, well, we don't know what's in there. Well, there's a lot of ways you can figure it out. Okay, blow up the damn mesa. Who gives a shit dative American artifacts in there? We have to be careful. Just get it over with already.

1:11:07 Speaker 2: It's fucking funny, man, Thank you. I needed that laugh. Oh God, So let's talk about the Betty Foggins material. Can you tell me? Can you tell me, because I actually wasn't super familiar with this case. I don't know why or how it slipped under my radar, but can you tell me the Benny Foggins case and talk to talk to us about this what and what you did?

1:11:33 Speaker 3: Yeah.

1:11:33 Speaker 4: So Lorie Wagner, who's another filmmaker good friend of mine, called me and she knew I was working on Accidental Truth next, and she says, you know, I got this guy, Benny Foggen. He's he's had these materials for a really long time. He's given them to different people, and it seems like nobody's given him a straight answer about what's going on. He's getting jerked around, and you might want to look into it. So I reached out to Benny Foggen and he told me his basic story. What I found out is, you know, this guy's a lifelong experiencer, and he says that this metal appeared after he saw flying saucer and it was still smoldering in the ground.

1:12:12 Speaker 3: And I thought that was interesting. There's cases that we're hearing about that happening.

1:12:17 Speaker 4: That these crafts somehow eject these weird alloys and they're just like big blobs of all kinds of different metals with no real explanation for what they are. But they're coming off these craft for whatever reason.

1:12:29 Speaker 2: Right, it's like slack of there's other ones like Jacques Delay had, right, Yeah, and.

1:12:34 Speaker 3: In fact Jockhlay has this stuff. But oh you know.

1:12:39 Speaker 4: So I was in Washington, DC, and I was talking to Benny and so I decided that I wanted to dig into this, and I told Curson Gillibrand, I was going to go get some samples of some material, and that I wanted it to be turned into ARROW. You know, our fantastic new UFO analysis group, the witness I Identification Program, Identification and Eradication.

1:13:06 Speaker 3: So I went to Ohio.

1:13:07 Speaker 4: In between the hearings, we had the hearing of Fluela is Ondo and then that following Friday. People didn't know this, but there was another hearing where Kris and Jillibrand was swearing in John Kozlowski, the new leader of ARO. So in between that, I rented a car and I did an all night drive to Ohio. I met Benny Foggin. We took the metal to a metal shop and we extracted samples. During the extraction of these samples, all kinds of weird stuff happened you'll see in the movie. I'm not trying to tell people that this material came from a flying saucer.

1:13:39 Speaker 3: I don't know where it came from. But the deeper story is that this guy first.

1:13:45 Speaker 4: Reported having this material to a group that had an ad in Ohio, because that's where Benny is where they are collecting information about UFOs, and this was being run by somebody named Bill Moore and another guy. It turns out that this group that he communicated to about his samples and gave it was the first ones they gave him to was running This was a public front for a secret study about UFOs being conducted by Betel Memorial Institute, which we all know is spooky government labs that is under contract with Right Patterson.

1:14:21 Speaker 3: We think Night and All originated there. So here's Bateel running classified ads in the paper, trying to get people to talk about UFOs and and masquerading behind a civilian UFO group. But it was really Bettel in the background, and they got a hold of this material. The guy played hell getting it back, and.

1:14:38 Speaker 4: They wouldn't tell him what they found. And this happened back in the like in the nineties. Fast forward, he had it, He had it tested by spent his own money to have it tested. Really strange anomalist results about the stuff. He says, he's seen it levitate, he's seen a shape shift, just weird, strange stories. We documented it doing weird stuff. So then Discovery Channel and Mike Bearra go and they do an episode with Benny Foggin about this material and they get it analyzed and the guy's like, yeah, disappears to have been manufactured, but we can't identify it.

1:15:15 Speaker 4: So that was very anomalous, and we show Mike Behra's take on the stuff in the film. Well, then Tom DeLong, Loue Elizondo, and Chris Bledsoe show up at this guy's house to take the material and it was all previously arranged. There was nothing nefarious about it. But Lou says he wouldn't say it on camera, but he told me and I have it in a text that when he drove that material from Ohio to deliver it to how put Off's lab, that he was followed by orbs and had all kinds of weird, strange stuff happen.

1:15:49 Speaker 4: So he gets the material to help put Off.

1:15:52 Speaker 3: All of a sudden dead end.

1:15:55 Speaker 4: Benny can't get a straight answer about where the material is, he can't get a straight answer about how it's being tested. He can't get a straight answer from anybody about anything. So Tom DeLong and to the Stars Academy tell Benny that the materials displaying weird characteristics and they want to hold onto it for a little bit longer and they're going to get it analyzed.

1:16:16 Speaker 3: Well, supposedly they.

1:16:18 Speaker 4: Turned it into the Army Materials Research Laboratory. Supposedly they how put off, gave it to Gary Nolan. Supposedly Jacques Valat got a hold of some of it and also gave it to Gary Nolan. So when I interview Gary Nolan, I bring some of it with me and I say, look, we got to talk about this Ohio medal. And he literally says, and it's in the movie, Benny Foggin says, every time you ask these guys about the test results in this medal, they all say the same thing.

1:16:45 Speaker 3: It's classifying.

1:16:47 Speaker 4: So I know Gary, I'm interviewing him right after I leave Washington, d C. I've got the material with me and so I'm like, look, I want to talk to you about this Ohio sample supposedly, you got it from Jock Vlay, you got it from help put Off, you got it from Tom DeLong.

1:17:02 Speaker 3: But what's going on with that? Why can't we get a straight answer about it?

1:17:06 Speaker 4: And he literally and I like, Gary, I'm not trying to give him any trouble, but he literally on camera and you see it in the film, goes, well, you know, I get a lot of samples.

1:17:17 Speaker 2: It might have got lost.

1:17:18 Speaker 4: I was not really sure, and I'm just looking at him like, dude, you would have to remember this. It's it's been routed to you from too many different sources. And he continues with this, I don't know, I'll have to look, and then I you know, there's a screenshot that I got with him on a Zoom call with Benny Foggin talking about the material that he doesn't remember.

1:17:42 Speaker 2: That was the biggest That was one of my favorite parts of the film is when you just dropped the little screenshot of him and he's he's just like looking and it's it was so perfect ron but what okay, So the question begs, he's getting this material and we're talking about Gary Nolan here. Unfortunately he's getting this material. It's not just like you know, no offense, but like you bringing it to him once right, it's getting it from Jacques Vallet, how put off and other sources that he knows that these people are to be taken seriously.

1:18:25 Speaker 2: There's no way he doesn't know. So when you presented him with that, I could see this like weird reaction from him. I don't think would Did you tell him in advance that you were going to be bringing this up.

1:18:38 Speaker 4: I told him I was going to be talking about it, but I didn't tell him I was bringing some of it just in case he'd forgotten where he put the rest of it.

1:18:46 Speaker 2: Did you give him another sample of it?

1:18:48 Speaker 3: Yeah?

1:18:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a picture Tyler. It is so funny of me handing that sample to Gary. I think it's in the film and you should see to look on his face when his eyes fall on it's hilarious. So there's a guy retro dooms Day in here. I'm talking about. Give it to NASA alloy specialist. NASA tested it, Loue Elizondo.

1:19:06 Speaker 3: I have the text. It's in the movie.

1:19:08 Speaker 4: Lou texted me saying, ask him about the red metal that NASA tested. There was some red metal on the outside of the sample. It was that when it went to NASA that the sample got sent back, all the red metal was gone. And the story is that Tim Taylor was involved in all of that and that he got some kind of benefit from finding out what that red metal was. And we never saw it again, but NASA's had the material. And then I see this thing about nicole carbonite, tungsten, no.

1:19:39 Speaker 3: The memory alloys.

1:19:40 Speaker 4: Now this test is primary aluminum, primarily aluminum, with a bunch of other stuff in it that they can't really explain why it would be there, including the independent testing we had done said that there's elements of it that almost have a ceramic kind of quality to him, so it's weird stuff. But yeah, it was test by NASA. They returned that, they did not return the red metal. If you see in the movie, you'll see where this piece of random aluminum stopped an industrial drill press with a brand new car by drill bit dead in its tracks.

1:20:16 Speaker 4: It froze up the entire machine and then it wouldn't melt. It was it was aluminum, supposedly it wouldn't.

1:20:22 Speaker 3: It wouldn't melt.

1:20:23 Speaker 4: We fit it on a piece of steel and heated it up to where it was white hot and it just sat there. And then another time we were drilling another hole and.

1:20:31 Speaker 3: Had all this weird light coming off of it. So it's weird stuff. And yeah NASA. NASA did do a test on it. And what's cool is, Tyler, we have this stuff.

1:20:40 Speaker 4: Any bonafide lab, anybody that thinks that that can show us that they have the resources and the facilities to test this, we will send you some.

1:20:48 Speaker 2: I might have Have you heard of Falcon Space Labs? I think I have, Yeah, yeah, Mark Socle, they have.

1:21:01 Speaker 3: A didn't they have Hell's Metal?

1:21:03 Speaker 2: For a minute, I I think so? I think so?

1:21:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder but.

1:21:11 Speaker 2: That that that's the the meta material part of it, This this chain of custody that it's gone through. I mean, do you think by the way that part when it when it starts emitting that light, I know, I know refraction. That was not refraction.

1:21:29 Speaker 4: I have explanation for that. And I and we didn't see it. It was later on that do we didn't.

1:21:35 Speaker 2: See it in the real We didn't see it in real time?

1:21:37 Speaker 4: That no, I mean we we saw we didn't see what we cite what we see on the camera.

1:21:44 Speaker 2: Right maybe it was like white hot in real life, and then it was.

1:21:49 Speaker 4: It was weird because what was happening during that whole thing is that three cameras went down. I was photographing with my big Panasonic Professional four K battery operated. I was shooting with my Osmo Pocket three that you saw me with at the hearings, because this was right after the hearings, right yet.

1:22:08 Speaker 3: Battery evaporated on that.

1:22:10 Speaker 4: I literally had to finish the shoot with my cell phone and yeah, a ton of professional video gear. That particular shot was with the with the iPhone. And it's certainly not a uh, any kind of traditional photographic anomaly.

1:22:29 Speaker 2: It's just weird, not that I've seen, not not with those specific like the color variation and where it's taking place. And it was definitely in camera, like it's it's something in camera that's being self illuminated outward and it's not something that's refracting back.

1:22:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just weird stuff.

1:22:56 Speaker 4: And you know, I can't say that it wasn't happening there because I wasn't paying attention. I was too busy trying to deal with.

1:23:05 Speaker 3: All this equipment failure. At the same time, they're drilling holes. And so do.

1:23:11 Speaker 4: I genuinely do not recollect if there were visual anomalies happening, because so many weird things were happening while we're trying to go through this process of extraction that I was just like in a state of frenzy, scrambling for a camera that worked at the same time we're drilling these holes and just crazy stuff. But three stories about materials in this film, and one of them genuinely came from a UFO, whether it's human or not.

1:23:38 Speaker 3: It came from something that's been in space and we don't know what it was.

1:23:42 Speaker 4: But I'm not trying to convince anybody that Benny's material came from a flying saucer. I'm not trying to convince anybody.

1:23:48 Speaker 2: You're just saying that.

1:23:50 Speaker 4: I'm just showing people that what happened. You know, the story with Benny Foggin, no matter where that material originated, the story of all the deception, all the all the beating around the bush, the fact that he can't get copies of test results of his own stuff, the fact that that Hal and Gary and all the people that we know that have had access to this metal seem to clam up when it's time to have the discussion about it.

1:24:14 Speaker 3: And it's in the movie. I'm not making it up. That's the story.

1:24:20 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, mm hmm. And these people are double they're they're they're double dipping, or they're at least posing that they are part of this disclosure effort, and in term, what they really are are agents of this controlled disclosure or you know, they have one foot in the classified area and one foot in keeping the secret, and then they pretend to have one foot like, hey, we're all about disclosure and we're we're right there with you, guys where we want this just as much as you. And it's like, hell, do you I don't know, I don't I don't unders stand you.

1:25:00 Speaker 2: I don't understand your motivations. I don't trust them, and I that's an unpopular opinion. But he's always given me this vibe, this this unsettling feeling that he is not being uh transparent, and.

1:25:20 Speaker 3: Well, none of them are being transparent. They can't.

1:25:23 Speaker 4: And you know, the the whole reason that this crew hooked up with Robert Bigelow. You know, we had John Alexander, who is running the Theoretical Physics working Group, to group of guys I'll put off. All these guys were on it trying to figure out flying saucer stuff we expose out in the first Accidental Truth movie. Then they reached Bob. They meet Bob Bigelow, who has money.

1:25:44 Speaker 2: And money money.

1:25:45 Speaker 3: These guys all want funding, and so it was an interurt. It was a match made in heaven.

1:25:53 Speaker 2: And that Isn't it funny that anytime there's funding for something like this, you see the same group of characters all all there at every single time, every single turn, they're always the ones that are getting the funding through these groups. Whether it's TTSA, whether it's uh NIDS, they're always it's always the same people. And and I find that to be extremely telling in in in certain ways. And it's it's unfortunate. Uh one of the questions that everyone wants answered. If David Gresh is telling the truth, his truth, what do you think the implications are that people maybe haven't thought through completely.

1:26:41 Speaker 4: Well, you know, one thing, Tyler that's really shocked me is that since this conversation started happening, Louel Azando told me a long time ago that there were elements within the Pentagon that did not want him to move forward.

1:26:55 Speaker 3: With the ASSOP program.

1:26:56 Speaker 4: Uh, and we need to just assume that he was running an off the books, you know, UFO Investigative group. Somebody just asked me if I trust Lou, I trust Lou to do Lou's job. He's a lifelong intelligence guy. He's respectful of his chain of command, he's respectful of his oaths, and he's going to take orders and he's going to reveal what he's given permission to reveal. And he operates from a sense of honor and duty, even though we can all probably agree that we wish he would just spill the beans, but he's not going to do it.

1:27:29 Speaker 4: And it's not it's not in his pay grade to do it. He's a soldier doing a soldier's work. And so that's yeah, that's what I think about Lou.

1:27:38 Speaker 3: And I've told him that.

1:27:39 Speaker 2: He said it. I mean he said it. He said it. And then one of one of his not first appearances, but you know, when he's like, right when he first started doing the podcast circuit, specifically in the UFO topic, I remember him saying something and he said, I was asked to apply my skills to the UFO topic. Yeah, and what are his skills.

1:28:03 Speaker 3: Are information operations.

1:28:07 Speaker 4: He also was able to set up security protocols for different things. Look, you know, I I I respect Lou, and even though I've I've called him out a couple of times on podcasts, and even though I've said things about, you know, like, dude, you shouldn't be holding up fake UFO pictures in front of sitting members of Congress and I put that on my either way, poking a little fun at Lou. But you know, I could text him right now and he'd answer me. So you know, at the end of the day. Uh, I've been pretty upfront with him about what I think about who he is and what he's doing, and he's never denied it.

1:28:42 Speaker 4: And and I don't have an adversarial relationship with Lou Alzando. And I think that if people really understand his role and and you know, where he's where he's getting his orders, they would understand him a little bit better.

1:28:56 Speaker 3: Even though sometimes it's hard to.

1:28:58 Speaker 2: Watch right right because like like what you said with the with the picture in front of in front of the the you know that disclosure foundation thing, uh or kind of sub briefing right that that that does so much more harm by him him specifically. And this is what I mean is we elevate these certain people to this level in this community where they're like they're like the UFO gurus, and whether Elizanda wants to be one of those or not, people defend him like they're it's like their fantasy football team, right.

1:29:40 Speaker 2: So it causes this internal fighting to happen inside the community where now people are going, well, look, he's he's clearly bullshit artists because he's sharing fake photos. And then the other hals like, yeah, but you have to understand the situation he was given right before the hearing, it's like none of that really matters, right, Well.

1:30:01 Speaker 4: Here's what was going on behind the scenes there. Right before they had this event. There was a lot of what will happen is they'll put out a certain level of disclosure. They'll disclose certain facts that they're okay with. But then the UFO community and the investigators and the podcasters and everybody else they take that stuff and they run with it, and every once in a while they get ahead of their skis. The whole thing about crash retrievals, it was really coming into focus.

1:30:28 Speaker 3: We're getting ahead of our skis.

1:30:30 Speaker 4: We sit here at this at this event that Lou was at, and here's Eric Davis talking about four kinds of aliens as I.

1:30:36 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, hold on, we need to kneecap this thing.

1:30:40 Speaker 4: And so Lou is giving them a picture to hold up, and he essentially kneecapped the fact that Eric Davis was spilling the beans about extraterrestrial species.

1:30:48 Speaker 3: By turning the whole event into a farce.

1:30:50 Speaker 2: And you know, right, because now it can be discredited just by the one picture, so nothing else that is said, you know.

1:30:58 Speaker 3: So, matt and the room is talking about crash retrievals.

1:31:02 Speaker 4: So, Matthew, if you watch my first Accidental Truth movie, it's about crash retrievals. If the second Accidental Truth movie goes beyond crash retrievals. And I'm working with Michael Schratt right now, we're by the end of the year. I think it's going to be finished. It's a new doc about the work of Leonard Stringfield. It's called Stringfield Theory. The legacy UFO programs and we are giving dates, witnesses, witness eyewitness reports, the exact craft that crashed in, exactly what space they crashed in, where they were, what date it happened, what bases they were taken to, what military We have all this stuff that we've been digging up for years and years, and what we have is that is extremely unique, is we have the unredacted master list of Leonard Stringfield's witnesses.

1:31:52 Speaker 3: And some of these people were inside government.

1:31:56 Speaker 4: This has been the most sought after documentation in UFO history, and we've got it.

1:32:02 Speaker 3: We're not gonna.

1:32:03 Speaker 4: We're not gonna make a public because of legal reasons, but we are in negotiation right now to turn that list over to to one of the representatives that's leading the UFO movement. So it's going to be very interesting because this is the witness list. A few that are still alive are the people that you're going to want to call in and talk to you. Yes, we have literal firsthand witnesses. Guys that guarded flying saucers, we have their names, and you know, it's it's huge. So, yeah, we're going to be talking about crash retrievals there.

1:32:36 Speaker 3: Matt.

1:32:37 Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, one of one of the things you guys are able to do. We're both at this hearing. You were able to in a well you did it on purpose. I was, I almost said inadvertently, but you you helped Eric Burrows and ask a certain question that I think was one of one of the larger moments in the here the answer that was given. Can you explain how that happened? I mean, I know how it happened because I was there.

1:33:10 Speaker 4: But you know, if I were to tell this story without having the proof that it actually happened that I put in the film, nobody would ever believe it.

1:33:18 Speaker 3: But one of.

1:33:20 Speaker 4: My friends had been out and met Eric Burlison at a restaurant the night before the hearings, and the subject came up.

1:33:30 Speaker 3: And he asked the two.

1:33:33 Speaker 4: Ladies, one of them was Melinda Leslie if you know, well, he wasn't really up to speed on the topic then, or at least he was saying he wasn't, And he's like, what kind of questions should I ask?

1:33:44 Speaker 3: I got to do this thing tomorrow.

1:33:46 Speaker 4: And so while we're standing in line for the hearing, I'm with Melinda and this other lady.

1:33:54 Speaker 3: That doesn't want people to know who she is.

1:33:57 Speaker 4: She says, you know, one of the congressmen asked me to help him with some questions, and so we're standing in line at the hearing, and I wrote a question, and.

1:34:06 Speaker 3: Everybody wrote a question. We texted him to him uh and.

1:34:09 Speaker 4: He asked them, he asked, He asked these questions in real time from our text.

1:34:14 Speaker 3: But when we got to there was this little.

1:34:18 Speaker 4: Frenzy going on in the back where at Danny, she and Melinda Leslie and I and our other friend were.

1:34:23 Speaker 3: Like, what should we asked next? What should we asked next?

1:34:26 Speaker 4: And if you watch the first Accidental Truth movie, you know I've been trying to get to the bottom of this whole story about Big Low Aerospace receiving materials, and so we we texted Eric to ask We wanted him to ask Gold because we believed that the NASA guy, mister Gold was on that hearing is one of the ones that was responsible for suppressing that evidence from getting to Big Low Aerospace. But he ended up asking Lou about was it Lockheed Martin that had the materials that was supposed to go to Big Low Aerospace but it was blocked?

1:34:58 Speaker 4: And Lou who comes back and says, well, what I can say is that it was blocked.

1:35:03 Speaker 3: And that was a absolute.

1:35:06 Speaker 4: Mind boggling revelation because now we know, yeah, it was Lockheed Martin that had the materials and the intelligence community blocked Robert Bigelow from having it. I always believed that Robert Bigelow got the materials and was just not being truthful about it, but maybe not. So, you know, we finally got to the bottom of it by actually hacking the hearings. We're in the back of the room texting questions that are being asked in real time, and the only place you're going to see that story is in my film.

1:35:36 Speaker 3: But then afterwards I told Gary.

1:35:38 Speaker 4: Nolan about it that, you know, I felt like we finally got to the bottom of it. And Gary says, and again, it's right there in the movie. He says, yeah, I was a part of the team that was supposed to receive that stuff. And Gary Nolan knows where.

1:35:55 Speaker 3: It was, he knows what it was. And so, you know, huge revelation, and that's.

1:36:03 Speaker 2: In the movie, right, That's right, that's right. So, and we know that Bigelow had been retrofitting his facility to obtain this material or this this this thing.

1:36:15 Speaker 4: I never believed him when he said he didn't get it, but apparently it's you know, maybe he didn't get it.

1:36:22 Speaker 2: Well, isn't I mean, that's a big truth right there. I mean, for the for the first time, we have definitive, multiple source evidence on multiple fronts, on the receiving side, the the knowledge of the transfer, the the opposite team, we have all these other all these people saying that this happened and that the c I A. Uh, I'm sorry.

1:36:54 Speaker 3: At least we believe it was a c I A, but we don't know for sure.

1:36:58 Speaker 4: But Jim, there's all this information in my film that is that nobody's ever had before, the inside story of how David Grush came out, and and I, you know, I don't understand why it's being suppressed to the level. I don't understand why the uh, this big podcast community isn't like Yo tipping their hat because this is probably the most important UFO documentary.

1:37:24 Speaker 3: Of the year.

1:37:26 Speaker 2: That's those are That's a big word. That's big, big talk. I like that. I I I I. I think you have some great stuff in there, and I think it's probably because you're not willing to toe the like I said, the company line that you've because didn't. If I'm mistaken, you've done like Julian, before you were on stories podcasts.

1:37:55 Speaker 3: You were I was on Julian's podcast. I was one of his. It was over a moment that was great, the biggest, biggest views.

1:38:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, and he and he says, oh, I'm not doing stuff with UFOs right now, and I'm like, dude, you.

1:38:06 Speaker 2: Just did like bullshit, come on, come on.

1:38:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's pretty ridiculous. And you know, considering some of the things that I've been saying and the fact that I'm pretty much correct about almost everything, you know, the fact that some of these guys are you know, not participating and having me on their shows is kind of cracking me up. And you know what's really sad, Tyler, is that what I've found is that all these guys got got screeners of the film, and little bits and pieces of my content are finding their way into their programming.

1:38:47 Speaker 4: So apparently I'm probably more useful as a research subject that I am as a guest.

1:38:54 Speaker 3: And you know, why would they.

1:38:55 Speaker 4: Want to promote my film when I'm the first guy on the block to have this information ready for the public and when they would prefer it be them, So.

1:39:03 Speaker 2: They then they yeah, then they can take it and then they can incorporate it into some project that they're doing. And say, hey, look breaking news.

1:39:12 Speaker 4: Look what we did, right, Yeah, you know, the whole consciousness, nature, reality, artificial intelligence. This is all taking this information and taking it to the complete next level. I mean, we're ahead of our time. Most of my films are ahead of their time. This one is really ahead of its time. But what you're going to see is the elements of stuff that I incorporated into this film and tied together are going to start becoming parts of these other people's podcast who never even had the courtesy to mention my film.

1:39:42 Speaker 3: And you're going to see this unfold over the next three months.

1:39:46 Speaker 2: What a shame, man, What a shame, David, Don't get me wrong.

1:39:52 Speaker 4: You know, despite the best efforts to suppress this film, it's still made number one on the Apple Documentary charts, and it's been going very strong ever since it came out. So it's not like it's a failure. It's doing quite well. But it could be doing well.

1:40:04 Speaker 1: Well.

1:40:05 Speaker 3: You know what, I really know.

1:40:06 Speaker 1: What you did.

1:40:07 Speaker 3: You're seeing it?

1:40:09 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell everyone that I you know again, everyone should get out there watch Accidental Truth next. What's the tagline? Is it UFO Revelations?

1:40:20 Speaker 4: It's no, that was the first one, there's two Accidental Truth. Accidental Truth. UFO Revelations came out in twenty twenty three and people can see that film for free on YouTube now.

1:40:31 Speaker 3: And I'm happy about that.

1:40:33 Speaker 2: That's what you do.

1:40:34 Speaker 3: Great.

1:40:35 Speaker 4: It won twenty eight Film Festival Awards. The new one Accidental Truth, next beyond UFO Disclosure again narrated by Matthew Modine and a special appearance by Thomas Jane, all that advertising stuff.

1:40:49 Speaker 3: Music by Alan Howorth who did Halloween.

1:40:51 Speaker 2: Great.

1:40:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, great, that's got a great soundtrack.

1:40:54 Speaker 4: And that movie is available on Amazon and Apple and YouTube movies and TV.

1:41:01 Speaker 2: Well, what you didn't do was you didn't charge now like and I'm not griping on age of disclosure, but there was no like And people don't realize that. You know,

1:41:15 Speaker 2: when when you charge nineteen ninety nine just to rent something, that's very dissuasive to people and they're less likely you put your film out and there was like the rent option in HD for like six bucks, and that's how it should be. It's so much more accessible and affordable. And then you can sit around. I remember we all sat around and you know a couple of us. I shouldn't say we all but a couple of us sat around and watched it. That's how what we do every time. And I appreciate guys like you do that.

1:41:50 Speaker 2: They you don't just make it and not saying twenty bucks of over six bucks is gonna kill anyone. But there are people who just won't. They're not gonna pay twenty bucks to rent a movie, like, it's not gonna happen. They're going to choose to watch something else on these streaming services. There's so much to watch, Like, yeah, well.

1:42:08 Speaker 4: Look, you know, I thought that was a huge money grab. I mean, who rents a movie for twenty bucks?

1:42:14 Speaker 2: And righting it wasn't even situation.

1:42:18 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I get like, I'll put these ads out on Twitter for advertising the movie, and I constantly get, oh, this should be free, this should be free.

1:42:27 Speaker 3: I told Amazon to lower.

1:42:29 Speaker 4: It to they put it out of five ninety nine and fourteen ninety nine to own it. I don't know how much cheaper you can go, but it's you know, eventually it's going to be three ninety nine and that, and you know, in a year or so it'll be on YouTube for free. So there's a tree of that. But you know, this is what I do for a living, just like anybody else. And so when people are like, oh, this movie should be free, it's.

1:42:51 Speaker 3: Kind of offensive because I'm like, look it is.

1:42:53 Speaker 4: I'm sure you get up every day and you go to work, and if you weren't getting paid, would you still do it? You know, this is what I do for a living, and if I if I'm going to have the money in my coffers to make the next film, then I need to monetize the work. And so I'm sorry that that offends some people, but I take everything I make and invest it in continuing to do what I do. You know, I'm not living in a mansion, so it's it's like.

1:43:21 Speaker 3: You're not You're not, and that people need to get paid for the fee.

1:43:24 Speaker 2: The Yeah, I've seen Ron in the field at the hearing, everywhere I go that there's something happening. Ron's there, He's interviewing people. He's spending his time and money getting to these places, getting the access, getting people to sit down, take thirty minutes like that. It is an expensive it's an expensive endeavor to go out and make a film. The fact that you charged four ninety nine for renting that like, guys, there's so much worse out there, and it's much more egregious in how they take your money.

1:44:06 Speaker 2: You're you're you're essentially paying for the experience and for you know, it's it's a very small price to pay to watch something that a filmmaker went out and and and took you. You were filming that from what twenty twenty three on?

1:44:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, it took two years for me to make this one.

1:44:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, so guys, give it a break. I mean, every.

1:44:27 Speaker 4: Podcast you watch five film it's like I broke all the rules of documentary filmmaking.

1:44:33 Speaker 2: But but they don't say anything to Jesse Michaels or any of these guys who run twenty five different ads for better help and trying to get your therapy unprovoked. Why is that okay? But what you're doing is see the dichotomy here, guys.

1:44:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, for people that want wait until it's free with ads, they wait, it's gonna you know, probably Christmas, it'll be on YouTube and you can watch it for free and you can sit through commercials. But yeah, I mean, there's no other way to create this kind of stuff and put it out and be able to sustain it. And you know what's happened to artists, It's not just filmmakers. It started with musicians. Musicians have always been expected to put forth their creativity and their work for nothing.

1:45:21 Speaker 4: That phrase, you know, singing for your dinner is it's like throughout history, artists are supposed to just dedicate their lives and their livelihoods to society. But people that work regular jobs stockbrokers, doctors, lawyers, guys that are dishwashers or restaurants for that matter, they're not about to get up and go do what they do for free. And to me, it's it's shocking that people don't understand this and that they actually have the nerve to say things like how dare you charge me to watch your film?

1:45:53 Speaker 3: It's like, really, it's.

1:45:55 Speaker 4: Like if you own a restaurant and I go eat your food, you're gonna want me to pay for it, right, the same thing.

1:46:01 Speaker 3: And so it's very sad and it makes very hard on artists.

1:46:05 Speaker 4: And in the you know YouTube when it first came out, I had produced over two hundred and fifty DVDs, all covering metaphysical topics, instructional videos on yoga, you know, all kinds of stuff that that all fit in spiritual evolution, and I distributed those DVDs direct to bookstores all over the world. And when YouTube hit the scene, within a year, everything that I had ever made and sold was pirated and I couldn't and taken and there wasn't anything I could do about it. And so you know, it's almost like, well, if I came over to your house and stole your wife's jewelry, how would you feel?

1:46:44 Speaker 3: And it's the same thing, and so people else.

1:46:47 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, Tyler, we're getting We're getting towards the end of the interview, and I got to tell you this has been a very interesting I've been very candid with you, and I've said a lot of things that I wouldn't say to people normally. But you know, I've got some pretty solid, uh viewpoints about this whole thing. And you know, I'm correct about a lot of stuff.

1:47:09 Speaker 3: And that that is not being said. And so I agree, what.

1:47:15 Speaker 2: What have you learned about consciousness and how it's tied to the phenomenon? Because move on? I mean I I do, and move on is like I said, the investigative Body. I think what that is really great. I think they've really come to terms with the idea that UH, contact may have already begun, and they have incorporated the abductee kind of thing into it with with like you know, experiencer groups and that the experience and resource team. Whether someone believes abductees or not. UH, there are these recurring patterns reported across decades and maybe all human history.

1:48:01 Speaker 2: Are there any similar similarities that have surprised you or made you more opt or more of a believer that this might be happening.

1:48:17 Speaker 4: Well, if we're talking about experiencers, particularly, Moufon has gathered one of the largest resources of case studies and done a lot of the most elaborate research. I mean, people that descended from John maxwork are working within Moufon and studying this, and so we've got a lot of data. And we've also worked with Ray Hernandez who did the Free Foundation, studying experiences and correlating the different modalities and revealing that you know, these things are all connected. Near death experiences, alien encounters, angelic visions.

1:48:55 Speaker 4: It's all being orchestrated by the same kind of mechanisms within physical reality. And so the people that stay in silos that you know, these are angels or demons.

1:49:06 Speaker 3: No, they could be ghosts.

1:49:07 Speaker 4: They could be they could be visions of dead relatives, they could be this, they could be that. And people that say, no, what I believe it is is what it is, that thinking is no longer serving us.

1:49:19 Speaker 3: We have to look at consciousness.

1:49:21 Speaker 4: I'm the advocate of First, we need to accept the consciousness is fundamental. And a lot of people are able to raise their hands.

1:49:31 Speaker 3: On that one. Oh, yeah, consciousness is fundamental.

1:49:33 Speaker 4: But then when you say so, if consciousness is fundamental, then you can accept that we're living in a simulated reality.

1:49:39 Speaker 3: Correct, And almost nobody raises their hands.

1:49:42 Speaker 4: But the fact of the matter is that if consciousness is fundamental, what that means is that consciousness is the only active force, that this conscious energy is the only thing that truly exists, and that everything else springs forth from consciousness. So, if you have a physical reality like we're living in that is being created by this energetic force we call consciousness, the only way to describe our physical reality is that it is a simulation. And what we find is that all of our religious teachings, every single one of them, the words that Jesus described this as an illusion that the Eastern religions all talk about the Maya.

1:50:22 Speaker 4: Even Islam talks.

1:50:24 Speaker 3: About this reality as being an almost laughable illusion.

1:50:29 Speaker 4: And so when we apply modern science to spiritual teachings, the conclusion that we're living in a simulated reality is it's not so far fetched. In fact, it's the most logical progression as you do this thought experiment. So then, well, why we've been taught from every religion again, every spiritual teaching, the same things that experiencers are being told by supposed extraterrestrials, that how we should be living as people, how we sho be relating to each other, what we should be doing to evolve as a civilization.

1:51:04 Speaker 4: None of this is new, and the sources that it's coming from, none of those are new. Human beings have been getting knowledge and lessons and encounters from non human intelligence from the day, you know, from the first phase of our writing. So what I've learned the most about consciousness is consciousness is fundamental. We're spiritual creatures having a human experience. There's probably a lot of other spiritual beings just like us, having different experiences. Within this simulation that you could be a a you could originate from consciousness and.

1:51:39 Speaker 3: You're a Palladian. It all.

1:51:41 Speaker 4: None of it interferes with traditional belief systems, and for whatever reason we're here doing it, we have to understand that to begin with.

1:51:52 Speaker 3: And once we understand that and.

1:51:54 Speaker 4: We start looking at all these different experience modalities, we start looking at all these different types of aliens or you know, interdimensional beings or whatever. Anything can exist inside the simulations.

1:52:09 Speaker 3: It simply can.

1:52:10 Speaker 4: And as Nick Pope puts it so well in the new film, it really made me laugh. He says, look inside the simulation, there's a lot of stuff. To this day, I think that's probably one of the best explanations. And that's why the film's called Accidental Truth. Next, it's about it's not about hey, let's argue about rather what planet they're from. Let's understand that they are a signpost pointing us to a whole new understanding of our very existence, and it's time to start talking about that.

1:52:40 Speaker 3: And so that's why I made Accidental Truth. Next.

1:52:44 Speaker 2: That is such a beautiful sentiment. Ron We do need to start asking, because again you start when you start labeling things, when you start putting your your biases onto the phenomenon, and then you inherently, you start trying to fit evidence into your box to make everything fit. That is the wrong way to go about it.

1:53:14 Speaker 3: We can't keep anymore right.

1:53:16 Speaker 4: We've had materialist science trying to stumble through the nature of the universe, and they just can't do it. Materialist science will never be able to explain the reality that we're in and the phenomena that we see because the box that they put themselves in no longer serves what we're finding out to be the truth. And so we have to start listening to things like the accounts of the experiencers, the esoteric ideas, the idea that consciousness truly is fundamental, and that we are ever living beings having a temporary experience here in a simulated world that we create for whatever reason, and that our realities are all subjective.

1:53:58 Speaker 4: That you're sitting in a room right now, now you're in a completely different reality than I am. We're both interpreting the framework of what we call consensus reality, where we are interpreting the energetic the energetic template that tells us that sky is blue and grass is green, and we live on a planet. But the reality that we're each experiencing within this simulation is completely different, vastly. The things that you see are completely different than me. The things you believe are completely different than me.

1:54:30 Speaker 4: We are all living our own individual reality and interacting in within the world to render together.

1:54:40 Speaker 2: So yeah, so are you are? Is what you're saying is, you know, the saying like if a tree falls in the woods, then nobody's around to hear it, doesn't make a noise. It sounds like what you're saying is if a tree there is no tree to begin with unless someone is around to hear it.

1:55:00 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the way. Because rezwand Viurk is very.

1:55:04 Speaker 2: Probably good money.

1:55:07 Speaker 4: He's written in the books. He's a modern simulation theory guy. But simulation theory goes back to Nick Bostrom. There was a guy that's not credited.

1:55:15 Speaker 3: As much as he should be. His name is David Deutsch.

1:55:17 Speaker 4: He wrote a book called The Nature of Reality like twenty years ago, and this book was all about how.

1:55:24 Speaker 3: Computational power could one.

1:55:26 Speaker 4: Day be capable of creating a convincing artificial reality, and if that possibility exists, then we could be living in one now. People have a hard time with simulation theory because they think about computers and they see the matrix and we're little blobs with stas to us. They don't understand that that's not exactly what it's saying. But the idea that it works just like a computer game, that if you're walking down in World of Warcraft and you're on a quest and you turn right, this mathematical energy based algorithm knows to take what you did and create instantaneously the reality that you're supposed to see, and this reality that we're in works largely the same exact way.

1:56:14 Speaker 4: If you turn right, the pattern of the matrix knows to create for you what you see, but you're rendering it as you go, and its true existence is an energetic framework that is here for us to navigate around and within our very limited bodies, we only have to render reality as far as we can reach, as far as we can smell. Everything else is visual and auditory that takes very little computational power to create, and the whole simulation theory idea. I wish people could be a little more open to it, and it's their preconceived notions of what it is that are keeping them from understanding that that is absolutely what we're living in.

1:56:57 Speaker 2: Right and again, I think you brought up a really good point and I will round out after this. I know you gotta, you gotta. We both have time limits. But I think people you're absolutely right in the sense of people's when they hear simulation theory, they start to think, Okay, then none of this matters. And that is the fundamental part that that you're getting wrong. It's it does matter, It's still it. It is just the means of how this is all possible. Right. We related to computer games because it's a good analogy.

1:57:35 Speaker 2: It gives you a good visualization. But a steak still still tastes like a steak, you know, Happiness still feels like happiness. Sadness still breaks your heart. You still have all these emotions. We still have the problems, we're faced with, the bills are still gonna come do just because you know that the how the inner workings of the universe are rendered doesn't get on not special. And I think that's what.

1:58:06 Speaker 4: I think people they encounter simulation theory and they they there's another type of simulation theory that says that we're not even real. We are just these programs that think we're real, and that we're avatars for other beings.

1:58:18 Speaker 3: I don't like that version of simulation theory.

1:58:21 Speaker 4: The other version of simulation theory is that we are spiritual creatures having a human experience, and the simulation is how we have the human experience. It rises forth from consciousness and we create it, and that we are autonomous, conscious souls.

1:58:37 Speaker 3: That are here for whatever reason.

1:58:39 Speaker 4: Some of us are here to learn lessons, some of us graduated already and we just come here to goof off. Uh, there could be any number of reasons. But but just because the reality that we're experiencing right now is a simulated reality by pretty much every definition, and I could go deeper into that, but we don't have time.

1:59:00 Speaker 3: Just because it's a.

1:59:00 Speaker 4: Simulation doesn't mean that we're not real and that we're not here for this purpose, and that we're not conscious beings that are going to escape with some level of our own autonomy. And so simulation theory does not doesn't discount the fact that we're living, conscious beings.

1:59:21 Speaker 3: They go hand in hand. They do not conflict.

1:59:24 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I really couldn't. And again, I would love to have you in studio for a great for another great podcast as soon as you know if you ever find yourself on the East coast in the next couple of months, or if we have to fly you here, that I would love to do that. Wrapping up, I have one last question for you. It's it's a bit of a bit of a complex one. Over the years that you've been doing this and over everything that you've learned and talked about and seen, and you know, the insiders you've spoken to.

2:00:03 Speaker 2: After all that, is there anything that's that still keeps ron James awake at night about the phenomenon?

2:00:13 Speaker 4: Uh, not so much phenomenon itself, but the stakes you know, there were back in the Roswell days. They used to say that witnesses were intimidated by people that were there saying things to them like, you know, that's a big desert out there. You could disappear pretty easy. You need to run your mouth shit. You know, there was a time when people were like, really, I believe silenced and killed over over this secrecy. And then in the modern times, I had pretty much been of the idea that they, you know, they weren't going to do that kind of stuff anymore, and that they weren't doing it, and you didn't hear about a lot of people getting killed.

2:00:54 Speaker 4: But you know, I've seen the level of play that I'm being subjected to, both in the suppression of my podcasts and the conspiracy around, you know, making sure this film doesn't reach as many people as it could, and the unseen hands that are orchestrating this. And you know, people might think, well, that's paranoid, but I wish it was paranoid. Believe me, I wish I was just this raving guy talking about it and it was real stake.

2:01:25 Speaker 3: But it's not.

2:01:26 Speaker 4: Even my publicist is scratching his head, he said, I never see anything like this. So, and now we have these missing scientists, and they're not all connected, but some of them are. And we have people that are being disappeared now because they have the ability to create conflict against the new narrative and the story they're floating out.

2:01:46 Speaker 3: And one pattern.

2:01:47 Speaker 4: We're finding with these people is that you know, they were exploring becoming a whistleblower, and now they got no whistle left to blow, and there's a problem there. And so when you ask me if there's things that keep me awake at night, it's like I've already opened my mouth.

2:02:03 Speaker 3: I've already done the work.

2:02:04 Speaker 4: I've already put out, the films, I've already offended the people that I'm going to offend, and I continue to do it with all of these podcasts, and uh, you know, for the first time ever, I I'm actually not sure I'm safe. And that's a that's that's a little scary.

2:02:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not that's not okay. And You've always been a pretty level headed person, so you know, hearing you.

2:02:30 Speaker 4: Say I have no interest in being the Oh my god, they're after me, that's nonsense.

2:02:35 Speaker 3: But weird stuff has happened.

2:02:40 Speaker 2: At some point, you just got to go all right, I got to stop denying that, and I got to take precaution, right are you.

2:02:50 Speaker 4: I'm speaking out very candidly against this controlled disclosure. I'm identifying the players, I'm pointing out why it's all bs, and you know, I'm at and in the side of anything but catastrophic disclosure. And I am very seriously considering the fact that, you know, maybe I might need to tone it down a bit. But I really went off on this interview. I held nothing back for you, Tyler. My my opinions and my viewpoints were expressed in a way that I haven't done yet anywhere else?

2:03:23 Speaker 2: Right, Ron, it's always like it's it's You're always one of my favorite guests. You are just like I said, you are not willing to toe that company line. You're you're for the people. I think you do this for the right reasons. I think you're genuine in your approach and your hunger for truth and transparency. I think you are one of the few people that we do have left that are working on that notion. And and really do you know, back themselves up by you know, their actions rather than some you know, the way some other people handle themselves.

2:04:05 Speaker 2: So thank you so much for what you do. Everyone got, you know, watch Accidental Truth and the second the follow up, the newest film, Accidental Truth Next one is free on YouTube. Uh, where can people so what you do on move On's YouTube.

2:04:22 Speaker 3: No, it's actually on YouTube movies and TV.

2:04:25 Speaker 2: Okay, so they can Truth is there.

2:04:28 Speaker 4: And then Accidental Truth Next is on Amazon and Apple and you can also rent it. In fact, I think YouTube movies is a great lowered it to three ninety nine. I've been I've been trying to get the platform to just work in this in such a way that we can make it affordable for everybody.

2:04:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is affordable. I mean, come on, guys, three, nine and nine, rent the movie. It's a great it's a great Friday night watch or a Saturday night watch. Super I can't wait.

2:04:57 Speaker 3: What you know, it's it's it's an unpredictable film.

2:05:00 Speaker 4: It's fun to watch, you know, it's like it's it's it's just uh, it's it's.

2:05:05 Speaker 2: Cool, a great lineup of key players. It's it's great. Yeah, I I couldn't. I can't recommend it enough.

2:05:15 Speaker 3: You know.

2:05:15 Speaker 2: I think what the work you guys are doing is absolutely great. And uh, you're not What I like is that you're not willing to just you're not willing to not go somewhere. You're you're okay with taking a chance and taking a risk, and that is what the art is all about. It's not just you know, doing what you know works. I mean, it's part of that, right, But you do have to go out and take a risk. You have to go out and take chances, and uh, you've been doing that and I really respect it. So keep doing that.

2:05:46 Speaker 2: And I think that you're gonna, you know, you're gonna make some some amazing you know, amazing things in the future as well. So until next time, Ron, where can people find you on move On and all those platforms.

2:06:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, they can email me at media at moufon dot com. I put most of my stuff is on moof on television, which is a private channel, but I've also got the YouTube channels on movef On, and I'm on Twitter, and I'm on Facebook under Ron James and Ron James Films, and you can reach me at Ron James contact at gmail dot com if it's personal.

2:06:26 Speaker 2: Awesome, And like I said, uh, you know, very sorry for your loss with mister McDonald and you know our hearts hearts go out to Yeah, but.

2:06:39 Speaker 3: Move On will go on stronger and better than ever, I'm sure.

2:06:43 Speaker 4: And uh yeah, if you see a UFO or you have a case report reported to move On, they're the real guys doing the real work.

2:06:53 Speaker 2: They are. I love it doing the real legwork, my friend. So until next time, everybody, stay humble, stay kind, and importantly stay vigilant. All right, We'll see you next time, Ron, Thank you so much again. M all right, Yeah,