EARL GREY ANDERSON- State Director Of MUFON Southern California

0:12 Speaker 1: Welcome to total disclosure across all platforms, where we explore the mysteries of the unknown, from sightings to conspiracy theories. We dive deep into the unexplained occurrences in our skies and on the ground. And if you're passionate about that conspiracies, all the paranormal supernatural, then guess what You're in the right place. Hit that like button, Share the show with your friends, your family, the enemies, I don't care.

0:42 Speaker 2: We don't discriminate the grays whoever.

0:44 Speaker 1: Truly, Truly, if you're listening on a podcast platform like Apple or Spotify, leaving a review in a five stars, four stars, whatever you think the show is worth, it really does help us get to a wider set of the audience that we can grow the show and bring you better content. And speaking of better content, today we have the luxury of talking to one of my favorite people, not just in MoveOn, but in general in the UFO community. Earl Gray Anderson is the director of the Southern California moufon.

1:17 Speaker 1: Hands deep in cases all day, every day, from podcasts, to radio, to documentaries and beyond.

1:27 Speaker 2: This guy is a tireless machine. He just must not sleep.

1:33 Speaker 1: He's like Elon Musk, he just keeps going like the Energizer Bunny. I'm not sure how he actually keeps up with his family life.

1:40 Speaker 2: No one knows. Just get Earl's absolutely amazing. I love the guy.

1:45 Speaker 1: So we're gonna welcome in our guest today UFO Researcher and again the Moufon Southern California Director Earl Gray Anderson.

2:05 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome. It's the Energizer Bunny himself.

2:11 Speaker 3: That introduction. I hope I can live up to your eye expectations there, Tyler, how are you doing. It's been a while, my friend.

2:20 Speaker 2: It sure has it, sure has.

2:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I love One of the things that I love about you is that I can text you and call you and no matter what you're doing, you always make time for everybody. And that is one of the things that I think is most genuine about you. And truly, I think the community is such a better place with people like you in it.

2:46 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, We're all in this together, that's the truth. You know. People come up with stuff that you know, to divide themselves from others, but when it comes down to it, we are all in this together. And you know, I if you're not there for everybody, then you're not real. You know, you got to be listening to the experiencers. You have to be listening to the witnesses. You have to be there for your colleagues and friends and foes and else what or else it's just you know, surfacy stuff, and that's not what I do.

3:28 Speaker 3: I dove into this, you know, into phenomenology, and I dove in with all of my heart. I knew that it was probably going to overtake my life, and well, yeah, that's pretty much what it did. But you know, thankfully, thank god. You know, my wife and I were having our anniversary is tomorrow. We've been together twenty four years, but we've been legal for fifteen now, so that's the anniversary of the legality of our relationship. And she's very, very supportive. She loves me. We had one experience where we were both involved, you know, when our backyard was lit up by you know, I call it God's own spotlight because that's sure what it looked like.

4:18 Speaker 3: And uh, you know, she went, you know, experienced the the os effect where you know, the room flooded with this weird blue light time seems strange. External noises were quieted down to such a it's like like a quiet room in a studio. And when you go through that, you you you do not have your meme. Isn't that little I want to believe thing from the X Files? You know? You know, but you know, for myself, you know, I just drove. I dove in headfirst into this stuff. And Lisa, she's she's supports. It's not her number one thing that drives her in her life.

5:04 Speaker 3: You know, she's a musician. She has her life working over at Warner Brothers Studios, actually paying all you know, paying everybody's grandchildren at this point, you know, the Mark's brothers, great grandchildren, stuff like that. You know, she does the participations program there at Warners. So she's a very busy woman, has a life of her own, but she makes room for her husband here and is supportive. So I've got a wonderful support system. I have amazing friends, and this is my joy in life. It's not not a burden at all.

5:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, but you're right, it is like twenty four to seven, you.

5:45 Speaker 2: Know, No, it absolutely is.

5:47 Speaker 1: And honestly, I've been me and my girlfriend, we have recently actually been floating the idea around about once she finishes, once she finishes medical her medical program. Uh, because she was a teacher. And we all know that teachers, I mean, no matter what you're teaching, you should not for the reason that we don't have a good education system, and not to get political, is because we are we don't pay our teachers. We we think we we we all say, oh my god, they're they're crucial to society, yet we pay them twenty thousand dollars a year.

6:41 Speaker 2: In what world you incumb in the.

6:45 Speaker 1: Lowest of neighborhoods, you couldn't even survive with that kind of money. And most teachers are buying products and supplies and bringing them to the class froom themselves. That's how bad it is. So so she left. And but to make the long story short, when she gets a job in the medical field, we're floating the idea. So in the next six months of me like doing this full time and can't wait, and uh, you know, I I know that, you know, having people like you in my life, it's going to make that easier because you know, there's so much that I can do and so many I have so many ideas, you know, I talk about them all the time, so so do.

7:27 Speaker 3: You carry them out? That's that's the difference. I see you carry out your ideas.

7:32 Speaker 4: Right, So I.

7:37 Speaker 1: Refuse to be the person who's ninety you know, hopefully uh and look back and ask what if?

7:45 Speaker 2: Right? So, you know, that's one of my biggest fears.

7:49 Speaker 1: Is this, this notion that people live and this kind of ties into the UFO thing or the consciousness and just the generality when we all look up at the sky and wonder what are places in the universe? Well, it is that the question you should be asking, if you haven't already answered the question what is my path in the present right now? Like in life, because you know, we can focus on what happens after we die and the stuff that happens before we're born. But we've been given this paradise called the present and we live on.

8:31 Speaker 2: A remarkable, remarkable.

8:33 Speaker 1: Planet, and far too many times we're worried about the future or the past or whatever, and we don't take the moment to breathe in what is this oasis we've been given?

8:46 Speaker 3: This? Per Lenon, he wrote that song Beautiful Boy for his son Sean when he was born, and it has that line in it. Life is what happens while you're busy making plan and it's I think of that line quite often because it's true and it is now now now, and that if you're not doing what your heart's desire is now when when you know.

9:17 Speaker 1: I always liked that little cliche. I you know, the the present is literally a gift, right.

9:26 Speaker 2: So yeah, and so I told you.

9:30 Speaker 1: I told you before we started recording that I had a question that I was gonna come out.

9:36 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you told me that. He warning. He gave me a warning, Will Robinson warning.

9:40 Speaker 2: You know, I did this one. I set you up for this one. So move On.

9:49 Speaker 1: Move On is an organization that okay, so we all know what move On is, right, we all know know what move On is why oh god, there's no way to really.

10:11 Speaker 3: Just spin it out, you know. You know what move On's creed is, right, Our mission statement Scientific study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity period that that that's our mission statement. So it's pretty wide open, a pretty big tent. And uh and I and I I love our mission statement. Uh, it's kind of up for interpretation personally, but that's that's all right, you know.

10:39 Speaker 2: Okay, So do you think do you think that move on.

10:49 Speaker 1: Could be potentially not corrupt that because it's not the right answer. And I know you listen, I'm not trying to do one of these gotcha things.

11:01 Speaker 2: It's not that. But could move on be a pawn in a bigger.

11:07 Speaker 1: Game, hmmm, whether it's knowingly or unknowingly, you.

11:15 Speaker 3: Know, I don't know.

11:16 Speaker 2: I don't.

11:16 Speaker 3: I don't believe so, because I think that move on is too you know, we have thousands of members. I think we're like eight thousand or something like that at this point. And uh and and people's attitudes and beliefs about phenomenology they run the gamut, you know, and there is no certain you know, we're kind of sticklers about certain things, all right. Some I think are are are probably good for us to stick to. Others, you know, I think are evolving. But you know, stuff like Okay, for instance, ghost hunting.

11:59 Speaker 3: As a Moofon field investigator, you're not really supposed to have the Moufon ghost Hunters group because we're UFOs, right, it's a UFO concentric group. Now, that doesn't mean that people in Moufon can't go ghost hunting. People do. I've been on on a ghost you know, tour, before. Yeah, I had a friend. I have a friend out here who has like the Hollywood bus, you know, the ghost tour. And I do believe that that the paranormal is is a real thing. I kind of the word paranormal, I think is self limiting though.

12:40 Speaker 3: I think that what rather than call it paara something, we just need to expand our understanding of what normal is. You get into quantum physics, you know, we're all kind of hunt up on Newtone. You know Newton's stuff, which works you know for a day to day on a day to day basis, you drop a rock on your toe. Yeah, you understand inertia and and things like that, but quantum physics is more like magic, where you know, a particle way over in the Andromeda galaxy is connected to a particle and in my finger perhaps, or you know, maybe the little Salvador Dolly clock I have aiding up over there.

13:23 Speaker 3: I mean, and plus, you know, there are things like spooky action at a distance is what we were talking about. But just the connectivity of the universe. We're finding out that everything's really connected, that that maybe the Buddhists were correct, and that the idea of all is one and one is all. So I think that the paranormal it plays into this phenomena, it plays into everything. But it's not para, it's just normal. This is you know, uh so, but but mofan They do try to stay focused on the UFO phenomenon, so you know, stuff like okay with you know, like there was a guy that had to move on Bigfoot group and that was kind of a no no, no, you know you don't now you can do that, you know, and if somebody sees you know, and we have to be scientific about it.

14:20 Speaker 2: That's the other thing, you know, right, it's in the Moniker.

14:24 Speaker 3: Yes, it is in our mission statement. That is a scientific study and we use you know, doctor j Alen Heinez precepts of valets, you know, categori categorization system and things like that that are you know, connected to the scientific method. Now, you can't really do the scientific method per se because you can't repeat experiments so to speak. Maybe you can, it's not not not citing, but no, no, I can't call a UFO down right now, you.

14:58 Speaker 4: Know, you know, well done, but no, you know, just do you have to be.

15:06 Speaker 3: No, no, no, that that that's that's funny. That's our little signal. If I have to race to the bathroom, I was going to fly this across and that's easier than I need to a bathroom break. But but anyway, I the way that anyway, I think that Moufon is doing what they should be doing. As far as being a pawn in the game, We're all subject to being pawns in the game. We're all subject to that. I mean, I have D O D people get a hold of me all the time. I have friends that are you know, from the Air Force intelligence, you know, iOS and or not I O S I sorry switching around.

15:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many of them.

15:49 Speaker 3: But you know, we're we're all subject to to that sort of influence. But as a group, I don't think mof on is anymore subject to that than than anything else. Really, I think that the motives are good. I think that the way that mufon started was was very very good. At the time, there was appro and all these different organizations doing this, and now it's kind of whittled down to you know, you've got Peter Davenport's group doing this, You've got Moufon. There's a couple of new actors on stage, like Antigama, labs is sort of competition now.

16:26 Speaker 3: But it's good that there is as many people interested in this and focused on this phenomena as there are that I don't see them as as our enemies, that's for sure, in this together. We're in this together.

16:40 Speaker 1: I absolutely agree that. And we talked about this off off camera too. Is it's the factionalism that is actually what's keeping us apart and it's keeping us from it's it's absolutely I can't say it's it would solved the problem. I don't know if it would ever solve the problem if we all came together, I know, but but I know it would lead to that because together, you know, we are unstoppable.

17:15 Speaker 2: And I think that is what these secret keepers know. So and I think.

17:21 Speaker 3: It's changed out there, right. It's changed. At one time, the you know, the Robertson panel that convened in nineteen fifty three and the way that they used ridicule and trotted out scientists to make fun of people that had had UFO experiences. That worked for many years. But you know, I think that it had its run. And if you go to any social media platform, even you know, watching mainstream news, it used to be if there was a UFO story. They'd play the X Files music, they'd roll their eyes, you know, and now there's not so much eye rolling.

18:01 Speaker 3: People are taking this seriously. There's a great passion out there to loosen some of this information to the public, and I think we'll probably get something. I'm hoping. I don't think we're going to get full disclosure, all right, They're not going to want to talk about how our visitors are able to turn off our nuclear weapons. I don't think they're going to want to talk about, you know, abductions and visitations because and they probably aren't going to want to talk too much about how they play cat and dog Cat and Dog with our best top gun pilots.

18:38 Speaker 3: All that stuff kind of makes us look questionable as far as.

18:43 Speaker 2: You know, safety.

18:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're not going to want to go there. But I think that we're going to get the small de form of disclosure. I think, right, I'll be surprised if we don't get something. We're vaping on air, Okay, I get to do that then.

19:00 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is we'll get the DOBS or approved disclosure.

19:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that we're going to get the full Tamali. But I think that we'll get that, uh, you know, we're going to be hearing that this is a very real thing. People aren't crazy when they report UFO siding. And we were wrong back when when we said this was all so much rubbish. It's obviously not. If it is, if this is something that people are making up, then you're going to have to, you know, question, well, how come the guys that have their finger on the nuclear button and the most you know, some of the most important, you know, the pilots, the Air Force pilots, generals.

19:48 Speaker 3: You know, this is like the elite of the elite that are talking about this, and they have have had experiences themselves. I mean, I have a full air crew are on their way from Tokyo to Hawaii and right at the continental dateline, it was still dark out for them. There was a little fingernail of sunshine coming up over the horizon. And these guys, it was four of them. There was two pilots, it was the engineer and one other person that they had on the flight crew. They see these three silver chromed flying discs that move into a triangular standing position right in front of them.

20:35 Speaker 3: They're watching this happen. It was very dramatic. It was done for show. I think they, you know, whoever was flying these things, you know, they knew that they were being watched. And so they go and they make this perfect triangular holding pattern. They sat there just long enough for the crew to look at this and to point at it and to ponder and what are we seeing? And then all three vehicles shot down below the horizon line. They were technically in outer space, but they could see everything. You've got something like that.

21:08 Speaker 3: You have a flight crew that's flying a jumbo jet from Tokyo to Hawaii and they're seeing something like that. If they are hallucinating or making something up, all those lives that they are, you know, the passengers on that plane, their lives are in danger of you know, if you have a psychotic flight crew. So how do you deal with that? And now, you know, I mean, it's different now than it was back in the nineteen fifties. They're well aware that this is a real phenomenon. It's time to tell the public.

21:44 Speaker 3: At least, that's much, you know, absolutely gotten out of their hands.

21:50 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you know, I'm not sure if you've heard the rumblings, but there's been there is a lot of rumbling, and you know, people are talking about this prop uh legacy UFO program, Immaculate constellation.

22:18 Speaker 2: It is, it is a mouthful.

22:20 Speaker 1: But when you start really looking at this earl right now, I don't know if you know Diana Posoka but or or her, Yes, but she has a contact. I think everybody pretty much knows who it is now, but I just don't say the name.

22:41 Speaker 2: Her pseudonym for the person was Tyler, And ironically that's my name.

22:47 Speaker 3: You YEA knew it, We knew about you.

22:50 Speaker 1: I work for NASA. Yeah, but her contact works for NASA, and you know, couldn't didn't really understand or or or you know, when she when she had first asked why all the the esoteric stuff that, you know, why is NASA seemed to be involved, you know, all the way back to Operation paper Clip, and he had told her that with these crash retrievals, they call them gifts now immaculate constellation, right, Immaculate meaning a gift, right, like ammaculate, like a miracle.

23:29 Speaker 2: Right. And then Conte comes to mind, right, right.

23:34 Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like a mix of yeah, it's a well, it's a mix of.

23:41 Speaker 4: Biblical meaning the stars.

23:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got it's got like a biblical.

23:46 Speaker 4: Feel to stars.

23:49 Speaker 1: Yeah.

23:50 Speaker 2: So it just begs the notion. Have you reason to believe that this could be real?

24:02 Speaker 1: This could be a real program.

24:07 Speaker 3: I have one friend, Paul Skinner. He's a ufolog a I'll call him a ufologist. He's put his hand to this for many years now, not connected with Buffon or any group, but he treats every single UFO citing as something that's possibly that he can debunk, and he'll try to debunk stuff. He's not going to make stuff up like silly Mick West or any of those guys. But he goes in there trying to debunk all of these and he can't debunk this one immaculate constellation. He's done like all these deep Google searches, and it appears that the name I think the earliest that he was able to find it on the Google machine was like two thousand and four, I think.

25:03 Speaker 3: But it was there, and you can't always find it. You can't get the email, but you can see through using the search engine that people were using the term. So it was out there. What was it? What you know? If it isn't what they're saying it is, then what was it? So it looks like this might actually be something that is accurate. And I guess we'll find out, or maybe we won't find out. But it's like the MJ twelve thing. Yes, and everybody got all over Stanton Friedman because of the Magic twelve thing and saying that it was all made up.

25:45 Speaker 3: But I happened to know there was a bunch And I can't give you too much information about this because I can get people in trouble. But some government workers I know that were on this site, they came across these old folders back from the nineteen fifties and sixties and seventies, and they they wound up sending these folders back to DC because they didn't have the authority to read what was inside. They were red stamped above top secret, and the word that was stamped on them was magic eyes only.

26:25 Speaker 3: So people can say whatever they want, you know, about Stanton being led around by his nose and stuff, but that I think that the MJ twelve group was actually that actually was what it portrays to be. You know, van Everbush, all the guys that were involved, supposedly they're the people that would have been involved in something like that, you know, he had James Forrestal's name was one of the members. He was one of the guys that wanted to bring this out into public and Angeley was pushed out of the window when he decided he wanted to do that.

27:06 Speaker 1: Well, oh what, yeah, you know, pushed from the window, I mean, fell from the window.

27:16 Speaker 3: Fell with a you know, a sheet around his neck like I mean. Anyway, I don't want to go too deep into that stuff. I don't want to poke that particular bear too hard. But I think that you know, this Immaculate constellation thing may prove to be uh worthy of our attention. That that's my word on it right now. Anyway, I have looked into it. Jimmy Church asked me about it, and I didn't know so much about it at that point. There's a lot of stuff going on, and I have all my own cases I'm working on.

27:50 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but I actually just had Michael Shellenberger on.

27:57 Speaker 2: Not why did I say, Michael Schllenberger.

28:00 Speaker 1: Rat Michael schratt Schellenberger wrote the article with the Immaculate Consolation. I just have Michael Shratt on and you and I were supposed to do a show about two weeks ago, and wires got crossed and it made me laugh because I'm like, Jimmy, I'm having the I was supposed to have both of those guys on before you you know, stop stop poaching guests from me for the same week.

28:28 Speaker 2: God dang you, Jimmy.

28:29 Speaker 3: Well know youufhology, we're you know, we're kind of like our little niche, you know, so we wind up kind of overlapping.

28:39 Speaker 2: No, you did.

28:43 Speaker 3: Michael Stratt, he has a one his new I had him give his new lecture to my local moufon group. Had a full house showed up for him.

28:55 Speaker 2: About crash retrievals. Oh yes, yeah, he gave us the same.

29:01 Speaker 3: Yea, and Ryan Wood came out just to hang out. You know, we hang out, bud. You know. So you've got like two people from UFO, you know, royalty in the house and h yeah, Mike, Michael's h He's done an amazing, amazing background in this and he does what he does very well. And yeah, I touched that new presentation out there. You guys be sure to catch that presentation. It's very very good.

29:32 Speaker 5: Yeah.

29:32 Speaker 3: I was gobsmacked. And it takes a lot to do that to me, But.

29:36 Speaker 1: I right, yeah, we we only I think we only got through like two hundred of the five hundred and four slides. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's a heavy presentation, and we were like, you know, me, I I talk and you know what I mean. I I asked follow up questions. So we were we could. We barely got we didn't even get halfway. So I'm gonna I'll be having him back on. But now listen, I've been investigating, uh the Bridge Water Triangle.

30:09 Speaker 2: Uh.

30:10 Speaker 1: It's a place in Massachusetts, Uh, and I I really implore you to look more into it. But there's also Salem, Massachusetts. Everybody knows about the witch trials and the ongoing phenomena that that that is commonly seen there and another placed the road, which again has all the same themes.

30:37 Speaker 2: And the themes are.

30:41 Speaker 1: Uh cursed land now atrocities, atrocities committed by by man man being mankind. Right, So Salem witch Trials, we have greed, we have I mean just pure power grabs and and really malicious intent and really really bad things happened in Salem.

31:08 Speaker 3: And yeah, trials were horrible.

31:11 Speaker 1: They were terrible. They were terrible, they crushed Giles Corey to death because he refused. He refused to say that he was a witch. He was like, I'm not going to God.

31:25 Speaker 4: Yeah.

31:25 Speaker 2: So and then in Bridgewater.

31:28 Speaker 3: We're still like that though. People see something they don't understand. Okay, like the Collins Elite. It's an officialdom right now. And apparently those are the guys that keep shutting the doors that some of these gatekeepers want to open. The gatekeepers want to open the gate but these guys keep on shutting it because they think it's the devil, or they want to blame it on the devil. There's something they don't understand. Rock and Rollers from the Devil. I remember that I grew up with that meme.

31:57 Speaker 3: You know, I discovered, you know, I I fell in love with the Beatles when they played on the Ed Sullivan Show. It was a little tot, you know, and and it meant so much to me. I loved it. And of course, you know, my dad was kind of churchy, and and there they were saying, you know, well, this is from the Devil. It's got this jungle beat and we don't like it. It's just going to lead to bad things. And you know, I'm sorry, Uh, rock and roll is kind of what got me through my teenage years, my childhood.

32:32 Speaker 3: It was, you know, something that I could relate to that I loved and you know, the poetry was there, the imagery was there, the talent was there. But it's from the devil because we don't understand it. That's that's like the easiest you know, com denominator that can come up with. And it's the same thing. Now we're running into these guys that you know UFOs and this whole phenomenon, it's all from the devil. You know, you guys need to rebuke it in Jesus' name and turn it off. And you know, talk about trying to humanize something that's not human, right, something that we don't understand or we're not comfortable with right off.

33:13 Speaker 3: That's the easiest way to shut off the water faucets. Called it demonology, and then people just shun that and very sadly, you know, you can understand that happening in social circles, right, that's going to happen, right, people are people, But to have something like that actually shutting down this most important bit of information that the public should know that we're not alone in the universe that you know, if you believe in God, why would God suddenly stop creating, stop being a creator with our sorry butts, you know, I mean, you know, a creator creates, a painter keeps painting, a musician, a composer keeps.

34:00 Speaker 3: So why would God shut off his creativity for just one little planet? Doesn't make any sense? And then you've got the whole universe, right, one little pale blue dot in there. It's from the devil. It's from the devil, and it's calling something that God did demonic because there's more races out there than just us, right.

34:24 Speaker 1: I saw, I came across this really funny, funny picture and it was it showed uh, our solar system, so our planets, and it had an arrow and it was God's favorite planet and it was pointing at Earth. And then it zooms out and it's the.

34:45 Speaker 2: Milky Way and then it's like.

34:49 Speaker 3: Way galaxy.

34:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, God's favorite constellation.

34:56 Speaker 1: Then it zooms out even further and it's like God's favorite galaxy.

35:01 Speaker 2: So it's really interesting. It made me laugh because yes.

35:05 Speaker 3: Well, people just want to be comfortable with stuff, and they want to put a box. Everything they want to put into a box so that they think that they can pocket it and walk around and live the same way they always did. And this is one of those big things, you know, the three the trifecta of questions everybody has, right, is there God? What happens when I die? And are we alone in the universe? And we have one of those answered right.

35:31 Speaker 1: Now, but one of those answers, two potential answers on the others. Yes, And that's what I find to be like. And that's crazy because in you know, I say my lifetime, but you know, in our live lifetime. Imagine if we could answer one of the three biggiest questions humans have right, right?

35:59 Speaker 2: And and there is a fourth.

36:01 Speaker 1: Question, but a lot not too many people get to hung up on this one. But our origins, right, yeah, species of the amnesia. Maybe they could fill in some of the gaps for us.

36:15 Speaker 3: Yeah.

36:15 Speaker 1: So speaking of that, shout out Graham Hancock season two Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix. Now we're not sponsored by them. I wish we were, but not. But it is something to check out ground.

36:33 Speaker 3: It thinks outside of the box, and that's what I love, you know, Yeah, and I and that's how we have to think, you know, if it's in your little box and it makes you comfortable. It's probably not true. It's Newtonian physics again, you know, going back to what we began with here. It's very comfortable to think that everything is like a clock and that it's gears and it's all he know understandable. But that's not the truth. It's just like the little tiny you know, it's it's you know, it comes from the same period of time when Galileo turned it.

37:09 Speaker 3: He trained his telescope that he invented on Jupiter and he informed the public that there were you know, four visible moons that were orbiting Jupiter, you know, the europea Io, Callisto, and Ganymede, and you know, they wanted him to recant what he told the public. They wanted him to say that his telescope was from the devil, that was demon possessed, because it showed something that didn't align with their preconcepted you know, ideas of how the universe is laid out, and we're you know here we are.

37:46 Speaker 3: You know, it's over three hundred years later, and it's the same attitude that's now shutting the door. You know, it's from the devil, you know, because we don't understand it. Maybe these aliens, they remind us of these you know, old you know paintings of devils and stuff, and you know, it's just like trying to fit that human trying to fit something that's not human into a square peg hole, right, And I'm sorry the UFO doesn't fit in it. It's round, you know, and you can hammer it in as much as you want, but it's going to be a mess, and it's not going to be satisfying to themselves or to the public when it's all said and done right, right, and this is bigger than ourselves.

38:36 Speaker 2: And as a state director.

38:40 Speaker 3: I love it, by the way, I love being stage director. From me, I can't pure joy. For me, it's about community and that's what I want. A safe place. I want someplace where people can go, where people can talk about this phenomenon safely and not worry about being judged. I don't care. You know, you can be religious, you can be a atheist, I don't care what your background is. We put all that stuff, all preconceptions and dogma is left outside of the door of my moofon meetings, I was going to make a sign that said that and I found out I didn't have to, because people intuitively got the gist of what I was trying to do.

39:24 Speaker 3: We all meet there, we throw our dogmas and our preconceptions and we leave those outside. You can pick them up afterwards if you want. We'll take care of them. And it's this beautiful, joyous group and we're all friends, and we come from all kinds of different backgrounds. Politically, we're divided right down the middle. If I made moofon political I would have a revolt on my hands. My field investigators would go away, you know. But we don't do that. We focus on the phenomenon. We leave our preconceptions outside the door, and you can pick them up later if you want.

40:02 Speaker 3: And it's a safe place. And I'm seeing this little community grow here and it fills my heart with joy, It truly does. I'm so happy and I'm proud.

40:14 Speaker 2: Well, I've been watching I've been watching everything.

40:16 Speaker 1: You guys, do you know You've you've been very Uh you post a lot of it.

40:22 Speaker 2: On Facebook, and you know, speak.

40:25 Speaker 1: Of the speakers that you're bringing in, and you're always always always bringing in just you know the legends of the field, and uh, what you're doing is is truly, it's just thank you.

40:41 Speaker 3: Well, they speak here, they know that they're gonna have freedom when they speak here, and that there's an openness and and uh, you know, I I try to I I hoped that I could create something like that. But my people, you know, they they they allowed this and created it themselves. This is and it just I don't know, and it makes me very very happy that I get to do that. And I have one of the best teams out there, by the way, Oh of course, well, I have just our field investigator team is just off the hinge.

41:18 Speaker 3: Cool. I've got a police detective. I've got a private eye. I've got an aerospace retired aerospace worker who worked with you know, major you know, well pretty much the military industrial complex like my mom did. But all these people, we are all on the same page that we want to understand this phenomenon and we we have to leave our preconceptions about it outside the door.

41:46 Speaker 5: You know.

41:46 Speaker 3: We have markers that we look for from case to case. And when you see those markers and you check them off on your case file and you see you begin to recognize certain aspects of this phenomenon that are in common with other sightings, other visitations. So it is a thing. It's not something that people are making up or hallucinating or or trying to you know, no, there's there's there's a very real phenomenon with with aspects to it that we can document and tick off from case to case the little boxes, and you know that you're seeing something real.

42:25 Speaker 1: Right right right in southern California, if I'm not mistaken, it is among the top five.

42:34 Speaker 3: At least we are the top every single month. Every once in a while, Florida or Texas will get us, you know, it's their active areas too, But usually we have two to three times more case reports come in than anywhere else. Some of that space X right, we do have the Vandenburgh Space Force site here, but you know, you get rid of those cases, it's still it's so active, so very active. Lots of Black Triangle cases, lots of Flying Fosster cases. Oh my god, the black Triangle case. I had one that came in recently from Glamis Dunes and I saw it come in, And usually I try to share the wealth.

43:21 Speaker 3: I'll try to assign these cases to my team, but I try to keep active as a field investigator.

43:28 Speaker 1: Right, right, you don't hold the best cases and then give them.

43:34 Speaker 3: I'll give myself. I'll fight like one case or no, no, no, I don't do that that. I had my turn, you know, I had like seven or eight years where I did get the best cases. But now I want, I want my team. I know that if I assign a case to anyone of my field investigators that it's going to be treated just with as much respect and with as much care as if I took that case myself. And that's but we had this case come in Glama's Dunes. This guy was a vendor there, right, so he was there every single day.

44:13 Speaker 3: That was his job. And you know this place, it's it's this area of natural this desert with dunes like the Sahara Desert, and people like to go there with their dune buggies and they have the motorcycles with a big you know, ATVs with the big tires and all that. So this guy is coming back from works. It's the middle of the night. He's going back to where you know, his little place that he lives there on Glama's Dunes. He's on top of a dune and he sees the stars blot out over himself. He's looking up trying to figure out what he's looking at.

44:53 Speaker 3: His eyes were accommodated to the dark already, and it was a shape of a black triangle, a huge one, like the size of a city block. He said that on each corner there was what looked like, you know, a little red light, but it was just very dim, like it was in stealth boat or something. He said, this thing was hating over like a little bit to the side of him, and he noticed that there was a group of twelve to fourteen motorcycles that were going down on the bottom of this valley. They were traveling along and he was on the top of the dune.

45:29 Speaker 3: So he watched this triangle shift so that I figure, whoever was flying that thing, it's like, okay, fourteen people will see me or this one guy. I want to choose the one guy in the doom buggy. So he said that this thing got right over him, and he said he felt very uncomfortable, like you could hear buzz He could feel sort of like this buzzing vibration in his bones when this was directly over him. Nothing belevolent, you know, it just you know, like just hanging out there. He waited, you know, whoever was flying this thing, that waited for the twelve to fourteen motorcycles to go all the way across the dune and disappear into the distance.

46:13 Speaker 3: He said. Then this triangle turned around. He said, the buzzing got louder when it turned. It turned on its axis. It moved over the valley of sand, and it went down into the bottom of the valley, about thirty feet forty feet down to where the motorcycles were driving. He said, it was maybe five feet above the sand. And this thing shot off down through the gully of this dune until it disappeared from sight. And what a wonderful case in the details. And I have so many cases, and the details are always the same, that uncomfortable feeling in the bones, like a vibration, the low hum when they hear it turning or shifting, you know its position in the air.

47:03 Speaker 3: Fantastic case. I closed that a couple of weeks ago. I never grow tired of those cases.

47:11 Speaker 2: When you say you closed it.

47:15 Speaker 3: I interviewed him. I looked for other case reports that were similar, or reports in that area. I there there were no other witnesses. Unfortunately, you like to be able to interview more than one person, but in his case, it was just himself. You know, That's that's why you got to see it. They chose well, you know, it's either fourteen people have eyes on us or one choose the one.

47:41 Speaker 1: So when you when you're telling, when you're interacting with someone who has a sighting like that, when you close a case, ultimately.

47:53 Speaker 3: You come up with a disposition for the case. I FO MA made, I FO natural phenomenon on. Uh, you have a hoax. And I've had a few, not not as many as you'd think beIN this roughly ten years and I have maybe ten oases all in all. Some of them were pretty outlandish. A guy was flying a kite that looked like a black triangle with a laser pointer on it. He took a video. Unfortunately he didn't well fortunately actually he forgot to edit the video at the very end where this thing crashes down at his feet.

48:31 Speaker 2: Idiot, amateur, I know, I.

48:34 Speaker 3: Know, And yeah, I had a little fun with him, you know, when I, you know, emailed them back, I said, well, you know, we didn't have any calls about any UFO crash retrievals in your area or you know explosions like I figure that you know, they must have some kind of using nuclear propulsion or some something. Nothing like that happens, so I don't know what to t And yeah, that he got the uncoveted hoax disposition. This case that I just closed I was telling you about at Glamor's Dunes, it did get I gave that an unknown so that that that means I believe him.

49:16 Speaker 3: And all the bells and whistles were there, and no reason to believe that this guy would make this up. There's nothing in it for him. He wants to remain anonymous. He doesn't want to be on magazine covers or on TV. He wants to remain anonymous. But he and you speak with these people and you get so that you recognize the awe and the wonder in their voice and and and you also recognize that people will feel a little scared to talk about it, like maybe I saw a government project that secret. Maybe there's trouble in this for me.

49:53 Speaker 3: But it made such an impact on him that he had make up. He had to put in a move phone report. And now it was a wonderful case. I loved it. I spoke with them like multiple times. If you have one witness, I'll try to speak to them, like at the beginning of the month, I should give away my you know stuff, but I you know, I'll call them up again, you know, without giving them any you know, preamble or any warning, because I want to know they're not reading something off of a piece of paper and I want to hear the same details.

50:30 Speaker 3: If somebody's making something up, they'll try to make the story better.

50:34 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:35 Speaker 3: I had one case where it was a UFO that started out like eight feet across and the next thing you know, it's taken up the whole backyard. It's like, nah, it's no good, keep on changing your story. Yeah, well yeah those you know. I've had hoaxes that are hilarious. I had a filmmaker that we see, gi filmmaker.

51:00 Speaker 2: You told us this one.

51:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

51:06 Speaker 1: Find that to be I mean, yeah, yeah, but so so, And that's what I was kind of getting.

51:14 Speaker 3: Wind up on third phase of the whatever. You know, anybody.

51:19 Speaker 1: Elastic girl run across the bow on that one.

51:24 Speaker 2: I love it.

51:25 Speaker 1: Oh man, that is so hilarious. Oh I genuinely I hope everyone laughed at that.

51:32 Speaker 3: While I'm sorry listening you guys. They got some good stuff every now and then. Yeah, I mean I think it's another Yeah, a lot of my nephew is Tyler lives.

51:47 Speaker 2: Fortunately it's the brothers.

51:50 Speaker 3: The Yeah, that's okay. Hey, Look, you know, I I did not have to bust anybody's career and I and there I've had chances to do that, and I'm not into this for that. You know, I try to be petty, I try to be open minded and kind to others. I'm not out to ruin anybody's career. I'm very very careful about that. So, but if something is, you know, intentionally fraudulent, that's that is upsetting it. Mud is the field, and that doesn't help anything. No, I believe it at that.

52:26 Speaker 2: I especially think that going forward with the.

52:33 Speaker 1: What is going to be available, I mean what's already available now is unbelievable, but what what what's going to be here five years from now with artificial intelligence and video rendering, and you know, that's going to actually do a weird thing where older video becomes more valuable, yes, right and more right, more more something to take more seriously. So with the cases that you've been getting with with that that that move on has been getting I mean over the years, I have to assume that it's gone from you know, the original nuts and bolts kind of sightings to I mean obviously now you're part of something called the e r T, the Experience or Resource Team, which had a different yeah, which had a different name.

53:25 Speaker 1: Uh, But Kathleen Martin started it, well known niece of Betty and Barney Hill, who had an abduction experience.

53:33 Speaker 2: So she's my person, your mentor, yes, and your mentor.

53:38 Speaker 3: So admit to that, you know, yeah, SEV talk and myself and she's got a few mentors, but she didn't take me under her wing. And I have her to thank for helping me get over the speed bump of ontological shock myself. I had my experience. I I uh, you know, I didn't know what to make of it. The phenomenon, you know, poked back. You know, I'm poking at it. It poked back. And that's the thing that people, you know, they think that it's something that you can put on a microscope, slide and look at like you'd you know, observe a germ.

54:15 Speaker 3: But no, this thing that you know, when you look at it, that you know something I noticed, you know, repeated pattern in many cases is somebody will see a UFO way in the distance, so point at it and go, what's that. Suddenly it's right there. There's something this connection that happens mind to mind and it activates a personal experience. And I could run through relidanity of cases that I have that are like that, that run for the years. You know. I have one that was nineteen seventy four Christmas Eve with a whole family in their car waiting to stop light.

54:55 Speaker 3: And the older son and the mom are in the front seat and he points out these three lights that were very bright that were in the sky. They were just hanging there, and he said, what's that. You couldn't see other stars. As soon as he pointed at and said what's that, it was suddenly on them. It was thirty feet away from them, and it was a classic UFO. It was a disc shaped UFO with a cupola on top. It was turning all these beautiful iridescent colors. And the mom said, and she's an older woman. Now the kids are all grown up, you know.

55:30 Speaker 3: I interviewed the whole crew. They were four boys, the mom, and she said, I couldn't take my eyes off. But it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. And the weird thing is that time seemed to slow down. There was a guy who was walking across the crosswalk and he was standing there like a statue with his leg extended. While time was passing normally for the family in the car, they experienced the OZ effect. With all the bells and whistles involved with that, external sounds were all quieted down to this very very sort of self contained quietude.

56:12 Speaker 3: They could hear each other in the car, nothing outside, no street sounds, no crickets, no going back to what they saw. You know, time was very strange for them. And one, you know, the four boys are all adults now and now this case it happened back in nineteen seventy four. And yet I have a case very much like that over a family barbecue that appened in nineteen ninety four. I have case that happened a couple of years ago that involved a whole family that it was very very similar. Somebody notices a distant UFO, they point at it and suddenly it's there.

56:53 Speaker 3: So this is why the historical cases are important to me as well as the ones that app and yes, yes, true day because you can see that there's this consistent consistency in the way that this phenomenon presents itself to people and how it changes their lives.

57:13 Speaker 1: Right, data allows us to correlate certain things, and that's what I find.

57:18 Speaker 2: You know, do you think it's more.

57:21 Speaker 1: Plausible that civilian groups, civilian lead groups could potentially blow the lid off of disclosure?

57:34 Speaker 4: Yes, by disure right, BIP.

57:38 Speaker 3: We don't have any constraints. We don't sign n d as. We're not going to lose our pension for talking about what we're talking about right now. I'm sure that was a you know, a fear for my mother and and other people that signed n d as working in in uh, you know, officialdom and coming out with this. There's a whole process. It's very difficult. You know. This is why I have respect for lou Elizondo and what he did. I don't think there's anything new in his book, but the fact that somebody is coming from official Toman boy, they tried to you know, tried to sully his name out there and but we we know, you know, they the okay, the arrow well, well a tip all right, That's what they keep on trying to go after me.

58:28 Speaker 3: They say, there's no group that you know by that name, and he wasn't ahead of it. Well, no, they kept changing the acronym so that you could put in a foyer request and you won't get anything. You get squat because you don't have the right acronym. But you know, it takes. It's a lot of work and a lot and potential blowback for these people us civilians. No, not so much. I mean, am I worried that I might be, you know, might have some negative consequences for for coming forward. Sure, that's always a risk, that's always a risk.

59:09 Speaker 3: I'm careful not to present anything that I might think is one of our programs, like a drone program or something like that that is national security oriented. I love my country, and I believe myself to be a patriot, so I'm careful about that sort of thing. But I think that civilians have an edge over officialdom because we don't have all those hurdles you know.

59:41 Speaker 2: Right now, So okay, but you in a situation, right, you.

59:47 Speaker 1: Get a case, and it's the mother of all cases, and you find out somehow, right, you get the Clairest pictures in the world, yeah, or whatever, and you drace it back to Lockheed or Van Denberg and they come to you and say that you can't reveal you know, you have a yes, whatever, it's a UFO.

1:00:21 Speaker 3: Happened to me if I got a visit from IF if that happened and it was a national security issue and it was something that was ours that shouldn't be out there, uh you know I I I actually wouldn't. I wouldn't present that out there. I would certainly keep very good notes and I would have that in my folders, but I.

1:00:45 Speaker 2: Would be using that against Yeah.

1:00:49 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I mean, like, you know, a UFO, like a flying disc. You end up tracing it back to Vanderberg, and you know, YadA YadA, yah, you have clear images of it. It's a clear cut case, right and and or maybe even not clearcut. You just do really the good leg work and figure it out and then all of a sudden you get a knock on the door and they're like, yeah, so you you know, yeah, so you're saying that you would you would compleational.

1:01:22 Speaker 2: Security to me.

1:01:23 Speaker 3: But it happened to Paul Benewitz and apparently he was watching an advanced drone program that they were, you know, experimenting with, and the way that they dealt with that was that they let him think it was aliens and they led him on. I think they even brought Yeah, Rick Doody and I've talked, you know, now, Rick, you know I had I had real problems with him for a long time.

1:01:54 Speaker 4: And maybe I think it was the best liar.

1:01:58 Speaker 3: But I heard though from somebody that knows him and that was working for the same people, and this is what I was told. The Air Force doesn't take kindly to people going out there and sharing our secret projects with potentially the Russians, the Chinese, and and Rick was just doing his job. Actually, he was doing his job. So I had to kind of step back and think about that a little bit more. I mean, I have one case that I think is probably US testing some sort of technology and the recurred. Okay, it was at a couple of different Air Force bases, and you know what, I kept that one of myself because I think I felt like I would be potentially harming our defense.

1:02:52 Speaker 2: Knocking on the wrong doors.

1:02:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, it wasn't like it was this. It was interesting, but it wasn't. It wasn't going to change the face of euphology.

1:03:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't. The smoking gun.

1:03:05 Speaker 3: No. So this is the kind of that, This is the way that I my attitude about it right right. You know, I've never heard my country.

1:03:16 Speaker 2: Have you ever been to Catalina Island?

1:03:19 Speaker 3: Yeah, as kid, I have to go.

1:03:23 Speaker 2: So I want to bring you there. I want. I think I want to. I think I want to bring you there.

1:03:29 Speaker 3: Oh cool, Yeah, I'll go.

1:03:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to bring you to Catalina Island.

1:03:34 Speaker 3: A camp when I was a little kid. A couple of summers my dad I stayed there and didn't see U f O, but I.

1:03:44 Speaker 2: Oh yeah I did. I did.

1:03:48 Speaker 1: And it was at the northern Tip, on the tip of the island, which is pretty goddamn infamous.

1:03:54 Speaker 3: The Eastern Eastern campground. I have one case I love. I've probably talked about it on your show. But I had a pilot, a commercial pilot, his wife, his brother in law, and they were camping East Catalina Island and his wife and his brother in law. They were in their tents getting ready to go to sleep, and he's out there and he saw a three hundred foot self illuminated sphere rise up out of the water, and it starts doing this crosswise dance in the air. Okay, and this guy is a commercial pilot, he said, as far as dead reckoning.

1:04:35 Speaker 3: He give me the exact coordinates, he said, well, I know the coordinates because I fly that path all the time. So he's yelling at his wife, you know, bringing the binoculars. I should have said bring the iPhone, but I wouldn't know. But anyway, this thing resubmerged. Okay, three hundred feet across, self illuminated, no surface markings, just like God's own golden pearl.

1:05:00 Speaker 2: Right.

1:05:01 Speaker 3: So he's like telling them, well, you guys missed the whole thing, and it re everges. Okay, So now we have, you know, three pair of eyes on this thing. One of them is a commercial pilot familiar with the area. And then came back in the drink and it came back out. This time he had binoculars. He said, you could see the water running off of it, so it add a surface to it. And again, okay, three hundred feet across, and it's doing this crosswise dance in the air. It sat there for a second and it split into two objects.

1:05:36 Speaker 3: What yes, no, that's not us. We can't do that. Two golden spheres hating there in the sky and then they both shoot up out of the atmosphere. And I have three pair of eyes that saw this thing, and one is a commercial pilot, so one knows trust our lives too.

1:05:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, like, because I've had Sallas on the show, guys people like that have to report if they take Thailan all yep, right, these are the people that if China gets a little bit out of hand, like in the case of the USS nimics, right, people forget that. In the nineties, we sent the Nimtz Battle Group into the Strait between China and Taiwan, and that's all we needed to do to show China in the nineties. Albeit they have a much better navy and air force now, but all we had to do is roll the Nimtz Battle Group into the strait.

1:06:42 Speaker 1: And then China was like, Okay, we're gonna stop doing drills over Taiwan.

1:06:48 Speaker 2: But the Knimts that sighting, I mean, it's it is.

1:06:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that area right, Cataline Island, right, and that's your coordinates.

1:07:03 Speaker 3: Okay to Kevin day after I spoke with this pilot. You know, I'm friends with Kevin. Yeah, and he just took a photograph of the old He had a photograph of the old log book with the coordinates. He said, well, here's where he was, and these are the coordinates where we first saw the tic TAC. His exact same spot in the Pacific Ocean, same exact spot. There's something going on down there, Carolina Island.

1:07:29 Speaker 1: You know, I have Kevin's coordinates, So you're telling me that those are coordinates in a similar area. Yeah, for this incident they're talking about right now.

1:07:41 Speaker 3: Well, there was where Okay, this is where they originally saw the tic TAC where it was hovering over the water and you could see the royal ing of the waves underneath, like it was disturbing the water underneath itself. Right, And a lot of people believe it came out of the water initially, although you know they they didn't report that in the original report, but that was kind of a feeling around it.

1:08:05 Speaker 4: So I have a lot.

1:08:07 Speaker 3: Of cases in that area, a lot.

1:08:09 Speaker 1: So so he's got three three people have eyes on this craft that comes out of the water.

1:08:20 Speaker 2: You could see the water coming off of it.

1:08:23 Speaker 3: I love that case.

1:08:25 Speaker 2: So and then they shoot into the atmosphere.

1:08:31 Speaker 3: So it was trans medium travel is like from water to air to space. Well, I don't believe you didn't do that. And this thing when it went back into the drink, it just shut down in okay from very high you know, altitude, and that would be like hitting concrete for us. So the surface tensure of the ocean doesn't matter to them. Yeah, they they're shooting.

1:08:55 Speaker 1: Back into the atmosphere and essentially turning any biolog logical being that is uh susceptible to inertia to jelly.

1:09:08 Speaker 2: So these are.

1:09:09 Speaker 3: Not good for you.

1:09:11 Speaker 2: How big did they yeah?

1:09:15 Speaker 3: Or something?

1:09:15 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, you would, you'd be missed literally missed m I S T.

1:09:23 Speaker 2: But how big were they saying that? These craft these three cross.

1:09:28 Speaker 3: Three split into two like mitosis like you yeah, crazy.

1:09:37 Speaker 4: It's like the.

1:09:39 Speaker 1: What's that video the one where you see it's going it's going over the water.

1:09:45 Speaker 3: Oh right, right, rich Hoffman, he kind of U is a group kind of on that case.

1:09:53 Speaker 1: And then it goes into the water. They're got they're like splash, splash, slash, and it comes out and then and then it's what's into two? The fun's so we hear of that pretty commonly.

1:10:05 Speaker 2: Am I am, I am?

1:10:06 Speaker 5: I not?

1:10:07 Speaker 2: Is that right?

1:10:08 Speaker 3: Yeah? I know you're correct. I had another case that came in, uh, and it was a boat captain and it was just like a fishing boat and his crew and they're out there and they see what they think is the full moon in the sky, and then they realized that it was a crescent moon that night, and there's the moon over there, and there's this spherical object hovering over and it gets closer and closer, and his whole crew they were like shuddering on the deck, like scared. Uh. Didn't know what to make of it.

1:10:41 Speaker 3: And this guy put in his report and he was scared to put that report in. He was afraid for his job. He was afraid, you know, maybe he was seeing something that was a secret program. But you know, he finally put the report in because he said, I don't believe that we are at the technological level to create anything like that. They thought it was the literal mood. So these spherical objects, people keep seeing them, and the reports keep coming in about these, and they're generally military or fishing boats or you know, they're they're people with no reason to you know, with everything to lose by putting in a UFO report.

1:11:22 Speaker 3: So I take a lot of care with those and have a lot of respect for those people that come forward and keep you safe. You'll never hear any of these people's names or any kind of personal information, you know. I've retired forty years as a nurse. We understood hip a law, and that that's pretty much what I had here too. If somebody wants to go forward and share their name, and I've had a couple of cases like that, Susan Alloway, I could say her day because she came, you know, she decided to go public.

1:11:53 Speaker 3: She's the one with the jack rabbit case where they weren't jack rabbits. They all turn around and there are little gray friends with black eyes. But that was up to her, and that's up to the person. The person wants to come forward. I tell them, you know, the possible consequences, because there are there's ridicule, all kinds of stuff. But I will very very much so support that person and I'll stand with them, and then publicly I'll stand with them attached to their veracity.

1:12:28 Speaker 1: But only I was gonna say, only if you deem it to be a case that is legitimate, not an if.

1:12:37 Speaker 3: No, if I say something is a good case and it turns out that somebody you know, took a photo of a reflection of their Star Trek model heating from the Ceilead or something, and I mean, I'm the one that will wind up being laughed at. Careful, I try to keep my own cases.

1:12:58 Speaker 2: Well, that's I think that's a very healthy thing to do.

1:13:01 Speaker 1: Is you can't because you know, you can't allow bias into science. It's that's how we that's how we can coct these narratives and and and we don't want to go outside them because because we think, you know, we we we got it all figured out.

1:13:23 Speaker 2: Well, joke's on you. You know.

1:13:26 Speaker 1: The big surprise is nobody's got it figured out, and we're all winging it day by day, literally, like stop kidding ourselves. You know, when I was growing up, I looked at my parents like, oh my god, you know, they have all the answers to if every question I ever asked, they know the answer. And it wasn't until I realized I grew up that I realized they're humans. They're winging it day by day just like every other person.

1:13:53 Speaker 2: You see, nobody knows what they're doing.

1:13:55 Speaker 1: We're just trying to make it through another god damn day, right, And and that's the big that's that's the big, the curtain, right, you know, not Santa Claus isn't real that one hurt.

1:14:12 Speaker 2: That one hurt.

1:14:13 Speaker 3: But my dad didn't let me believe in Santa Claus.

1:14:17 Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, Jesus, I kind of wish didn't.

1:14:23 Speaker 1: But yeah, no, it's it's when you realize, you know, that adults aren't aren't superheroes because you know then you know, you want to believe they are, because that.

1:14:33 Speaker 2: Would make you a hero or a villain or whatever. But it's not safety.

1:14:40 Speaker 3: We want our little safe space and protection. And but we're all kind of you grow up people out here, and we're all pretty much, you know, subject to the same stuff.

1:14:52 Speaker 4: So well, what do you think?

1:14:55 Speaker 2: What do you think? I mean, the tides are clearly turning, right.

1:14:58 Speaker 1: I would say fifty years ago, if you if you surveyed one hundred people and said, you know, are we alone in the universe, most of them would say probably no, you know, we're the only game in town. But if you took that same survey today, I think it'd be the exact opposite.

1:15:18 Speaker 2: So, uh, what.

1:15:20 Speaker 1: In today's age when people are are they're more open and and they're they're more They're not like they were post World War Two where you were just told to rub some dirt.

1:15:30 Speaker 2: In it and get over it.

1:15:33 Speaker 1: You know, the people are talking about things that happened to them. Are you Is that the why are more people not reporting to move on? Because for every case you get, there's probably four or five that.

1:15:48 Speaker 3: You don't fear a lot of times it's fear. Sometimes people don't know that there's even a move fond to report to. That's why. I mean, I'm constantly constant telling people on podcasts and radio, and you know, I teach a class and eufology over at Otis College of Art and Design, for God's sake, and I make sure that every one of my students sy get the little moof on pamphlet. I But yeah, I think that we only get a certain percentage of those sidings, and a lot of it I think is fear. Sometimes. You know, again, people are afraid maybe I saw something that was a secret project that was from the government.

1:16:36 Speaker 3: Sometimes people will be afraid that if I you know, if I poke at it. It might poke back and well, yeah, that is that is actually you know, that does happen. You know, but I haven't experienced anything that I would consider a negative or everything that has happened to me I feel has been to kind of give me a little more under standing. I feel like this phenomenon is intelligent, that it isn't malevolent. I think that I don't think that it's like et you know, and everything's Reese's pieces, so to speak.

1:17:13 Speaker 3: That there you have a variety of various and sundry entities that I think are visiting us and abmen visiting us. They don't all have great motives. It's like humanity, but that's usually what I you know, turn back around to people when they want to say, oh, these are demons, I say, well, okay, let's turn the tables. If you turned on you, if you were not a human and you suddenly were able to watch a human news broadcast, see all of our wars and fears and prejudices and hatreds out there, you might say that we were demons, and we're not.

1:17:51 Speaker 3: We're simply creatures with freedom of will. When you have free will, you've got a panopoly of choices and they're not always good. So I think that's what we're dealing with.

1:18:08 Speaker 1: That was remarkable, Man, I've never heard that that analogy, but that's that's like a reverse analogy that that really works well. Because what so, what do you say about what do you think about this notion that because you know, Ross Coultart has said it.

1:18:26 Speaker 2: I think he said it on the most recent episode of his his reality check show.

1:18:34 Speaker 1: I've had people on the show, like Michael Herrera, Eric Hacker that are saying that we are nefariously uh the more hostile, and we are bringing these UFOs down. Hence you know why a lot of them do go down near military installations.

1:18:55 Speaker 3: Or nuclear facility. How I would wish that are where the military are aren't very good ambassadors to the stars, let's just put it that way. And there's a shoot him down order has been for a long long time.

1:19:12 Speaker 1: That's not good, and and and and like and what my my fear is, what if they're entering us into some what if what if one of these And I know you say you've come to this con not conclusion, but you lean in the favor that there's either indifference on their part or.

1:19:34 Speaker 3: Benevolent rules. I think something like the crime Directive.

1:19:38 Speaker 4: Is in place, right, But you know, this is.

1:19:41 Speaker 3: Why people that want them to solve all of our problems. Well, we're you know, a work in progress, and I think that we're still proving ourselves. And you know, I like to say that, you know, I think that our visitors that they would like Star Trek to happen, but there's a fear that if they let us out as we are right now, we would create star Wars. You just have to look at the way that we treat each other on this planet. I mean, you know, there's not a good history behind us. And let's hope that our visitors, you know, are a little more advanced than you know.

1:20:20 Speaker 3: I mean, you look at us, and we came to the New World, and we brought our diseases, and we we you know, traded them trinkets for all their land, and we kind of did these terrible things. And let's hope that that's not But you know, I don't see them coming here and taking our land and taking given us trinkets, and you know, I don't see the evidence for a malevolent takeover. It really looks to me like we are being observed. I think that there is probably concern that we could go out there and become a species that exploits it's you know, other species that are less technologically advanced than ourselves.

1:21:07 Speaker 3: I think that we were a concern, but I think that we're probably of interest to them because they keep coming back. They keep coming back, even though we shoot them down. They keep.

1:21:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's a that's an absolutely great point that you make, because I don't.

1:21:24 Speaker 2: I always hated that comparison when.

1:21:27 Speaker 1: They're like, well, we'd be like ants observing all we do, observe ants.

1:21:33 Speaker 3: We observe it.

1:21:34 Speaker 4: Come on, guys, that's all they do.

1:21:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, never heard of an ant pharologist.

1:21:41 Speaker 1: Right, like geez uh And we and we bag and tag lions and in the safari right, so you know, they go back to their lion in front.

1:21:53 Speaker 3: We hover over them, we tranquilize them, we tag them, we hopefully give them antibiotics if there's something wrong with them, and then we come back a year later and see where they are and see what they're doing. We follow the same exact uh, you know pattern, and that's kind of what I see happen in the year.

1:22:11 Speaker 1: So yeah, put little implants in them and they go back to their lion friends and they're like, dude, you never believe the fucking day I had. I got taken by.

1:22:22 Speaker 2: These things and I woke up on a table and real familiar, doesn't it?

1:22:28 Speaker 5: It does?

1:22:28 Speaker 3: It does?

1:22:30 Speaker 1: So h I highly highly so one of the I know we were you, We're way pastime, but I wanna, I wanna leave with with this now lately now lately, uh put you full screen by accident.

1:22:55 Speaker 2: But lately I've been thinking.

1:22:57 Speaker 1: About this and it's, uh, it's it's alarming because and I know you don't normally talk about this kind of stuff, but it seems we are at a critical juncture in human history. There are wars being fought over land and territory, you know, uh, in the Middle East, and then you know the Ukraine Russian thing. You know, we got a weird of uh reality show election coming up very and yeah, and I just the future, the future seems, you know, uh, just a little. I know if the word bleak is the right answer, but but what do you see going forward?

1:24:02 Speaker 2: With all the good we see?

1:24:04 Speaker 1: I mean I just sat now with Tim Burchett last week, and you know, he's amazing, you know, I don't agree with this all of his politics, but him and I can.

1:24:16 Speaker 2: Sit down and have a conversation.

1:24:17 Speaker 3: Sure I could know UAP.

1:24:19 Speaker 2: So how do we right right? Bipartisans?

1:24:24 Speaker 3: It's not crazy where they're reaching across the aisle and you have all these people that are usually at each other's throats, but somehow or another, this subject it shuts all that down and people are working together. And maybe that is a sign that this maybe what humanity needs right now is a little bit of good disclosure, you know, because right now we're just ingrown.

1:24:57 Speaker 5: You know.

1:24:57 Speaker 3: It's like an ingrown hair. It's just irritating, and it's it's it's just humanity is just like, you know, judging itself and calling ourselves our enemy and the worst. You know, it's like the enemy win and all this stuff. And I think maybe, you know, you play that little clip of President Reagan at the beginning where he talks about maybe a threat from outer space would cause us to work together, and I don't think it even needs it doesn't even need to be a threat. I think if people realize that we're being observed, that maybe we're being judged, and maybe the future of humanity it has to do with you know, if you guys can treat each other well, then maybe we can trust you with you know, the greater picture and and maybe Star Trek or something you know comparable is possible.

1:25:50 Speaker 3: And that gives me hope and that causes me to really work hard and really kind of and I don't think that I have an over like naive idea of what this is. And you know, there's some dark elements to this phenomenon, you know, the Cholaos case and things like that, but I do think that perhaps we are at that nexus point now where something where humanity is going to enter into the space age. You know, Kurtzweil called it the singularity. It's going to happen, Okay, I mean the AI situation and what's happening with our technology.

1:26:39 Speaker 3: We're at that point now where it's like a breaking point humanity is going to change. Alvin Toffler had a book called Future Shock that came out in the nineteen seventies. Well, here's the future, and here is the shock. And to get past that, I think the disclosure and the hope that is inherent in the fact that this other civilization or many civilizations they survived this period in their history. They got past this and here they are, They're traversing the stars. And maybe someday that will be us.

1:27:12 Speaker 3: Maybe we will be the aliens that are visiting another planet and and putting implants, you know, in their ears or you know, wherever.

1:27:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, whatever, Yeah, maybe that.

1:27:25 Speaker 3: You know, is something that we have to look forward to, if if we can survive ourselves, get past this hard, difficult point we're at right now, stop beating on each other, start working together towards a better future. You know, it sounds naive, but I don't think it's naive. You know, now there's a great, big, beautiful tomorrow, you know, I mean there could be. I think that there could be.

1:27:53 Speaker 1: Well, I know, I know that we talked about this off there, but that effect when an astronaut looks or any person in space looks back and looks on Earth, there's no borders, right, there's no We.

1:28:09 Speaker 2: Are in this together.

1:28:10 Speaker 1: And and I think I think that was amazing, amazingly described. And you beat me to what I was asked getting to. And in the sense that in.

1:28:21 Speaker 2: All the in all this, all this.

1:28:25 Speaker 1: All this chaos, could disclosure actually be the path that unites and and again, let's I know the threats and the threat and that the possibility of a threat, and you know the Alexander line and not that I know you you know.

1:28:43 Speaker 2: People.

1:28:45 Speaker 4: To think yes, and that's the that.

1:28:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and I you know what, I feel safer for it.

1:28:52 Speaker 4: I feel I do, But I don't think.

1:28:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think we should be shooting them down with that. This is not a situation where you shoot first and ask questions later. That's not how this works. So I don't want my government or my military making choices that could affect the entire planet. So I know we have to meet them halfway, but they have to meet us halfway. And that's how this is gonna work going forward. And yeah, I see it. I definitely uniting. And I just again I want to say thank you, Earle. You're just so fun to always have a conversation with.

1:29:35 Speaker 1: And we're actually going to be working you in to our Curse Echoes documentary because you do have experience.

1:29:46 Speaker 2: With experiencers and some of the more you.

1:29:52 Speaker 1: Know, talking about more paranormal side and I can't wait to do that. And what else do you got going on? I know you, you know, you have so much that you.

1:30:05 Speaker 3: Use busy, just the usual, uh, you know, case reports and with with you know, we're already starting to plan the twenty twenty five symposium. I'm very excited about that. I'll be on a symposia committee. Oh that's good, the good, good good.

1:30:25 Speaker 6: I can't say who yet, but I've kind of I've been getting some good, interesting people that haven't spoken to Buffon one guy since the nineteen nineties.

1:30:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, and.

1:30:39 Speaker 3: I'm very thrilled about that. But I can't. I can't say I've Marquetta, my boss and the supposia committee would would have me in a sling, So.

1:30:48 Speaker 4: I yeah, do that.

1:30:51 Speaker 3: But if you day really good, that's next July. So that's keeping me busy, my case, you know, my casework, my my wonderful team. You know, we do have our our live in person meetings here in southern California. If you go to so cal moofon s O C A L M U f O N dot com So calmoofon dot com, that's our local site and you can see our you know, when we have a speaker that's going to be speaking within the next month or so, that is presented there for you. Also, you can go there and look at my team. You know that has a little buttons up on the top right hand side of the page and if you click on that, it'll say our team.

1:31:40 Speaker 3: I do write a blog, a regular blog in there. And so that's that's a good place where you can guys can go. And it also has a link to moofon dot com. If you've seen a UFO or you've had a you've had an experience with beings, you can go and click on there. It'll take you over to MoveOn dot com or easier, just go to mofon dot com and that's where you can go. And we work regionally. So if you're in southern California and you see a UFO here, somebody from my team in Southern California will get your case and I promise you I'll treat you with the respect.

1:32:24 Speaker 3: And if it's not myself, it's somebody that I've trained and somebody will will do due diligence on your case. Same goes for northern California, same goes for Ohio, Pennsylvania, wherever you live. If you're in Europe, you're in the UK, Canada, We've got you covered there regionally as well. So move on dot com is where you go to report your UFO sidings, or if you have a more esoteric, face to face kind of experience, then you would hit report and aduction or an entity. Yeah, and there you go. That's what I have to report to you guys.

1:33:07 Speaker 3: And that's about that. That's it. That's enough.

1:33:11 Speaker 1: Uh And I will have all of those uh links and stuff in the description of this episode. Ear like I said, you're always wonderful to talk to and uh, I just I can't thank you enough for all the work that you do.

1:33:28 Speaker 2: And uh, like I said, if.

1:33:30 Speaker 1: If you guys don't report your sightings, then you know, we can't.

1:33:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, we can't understand, that's right.

1:33:42 Speaker 2: And and then now.

1:33:45 Speaker 1: Yes we we this effects every single person on the earth. So if you have a sighting, report it, even if you don't think or can you report anonymously?

1:33:56 Speaker 4: Uh yeah, yeah you can?

1:33:59 Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, I mean you know, there's a little button that you can hit and it says do you wish to remain anonymous? And you just click that, and we respect that absolutely, and even if you forget to do that, we don't make it a practice of putting people's names out there along with their cases.

1:34:20 Speaker 2: We're very, very careful. So if you want your case, yeah, if you.

1:34:25 Speaker 1: Want your case investigated, you know, you obviously use a name.

1:34:29 Speaker 2: But if you just you know, it doesn't hurt. Even if you have.

1:34:31 Speaker 1: A sighting and want to remain anonymous, give as much detail as you can and you know whatever, just report it.

1:34:39 Speaker 3: To have an email. There have some way for us to get a hold of you, but your name will not be put out there in any you know, if you want to go out and you want to write a news article or go on Ancient Aliens or something and use your name and image and and I had your case and if you ask me, I'm happy to back you up. And I've done that for people. But as far as me going out and putting people's names out and any information that they might be recognized in public by huh uh, I don't do that. I wouldn't want somebody to do that to me.

1:35:17 Speaker 3: So that's I mean.

1:35:18 Speaker 1: I've I've told my earl my own stories and he's he has not told anyone from you know, so uh A.

1:35:29 Speaker 2: Thank you everybody for watching tonight's or today's show.

1:35:34 Speaker 1: Uh it is available for free because everyone is uh so amazing and so so participating in UH this community is just that amazing and we continue to stay powered by TDP Studios. We just got into a new studio that we're going to be start UH flying people in hopefully by March of twenty twenty five, so lots of changes happening and Earl, you will definitely be one of the people that will be definitely bringing in.

1:36:10 Speaker 2: I can't wait for that.

1:36:11 Speaker 1: So with that being said, make sure you guys like you share, you subscribe if you've had a sighting report it. If you want to help support the show further, don't forget you can become a member on YouTube or on Patreon. It really does help. But we shall see you next time. Earl again, thank you for being such a good sport.

1:36:34 Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

1:36:35 Speaker 5: Tell you have a good one

1:37:01 Speaker 1: Ind and State and Nat