GODS AMONG MEN- Featuring Thomas Ferrario Former Mufon Assistant State Director/UAP Researcher

0:05 Speaker 1: God, what all perhaps a diap.

0:14 Speaker 2: I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this work, And yet I ask you, it's not an alien force already among us.

0:24 Speaker 1: We must guard.

0:25 Speaker 3: Against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsolved by the military, industrial combat potential, or the disastrous rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

0:57 Speaker 1: Now I am becoming death by our world.

1:00 Speaker 2: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

1:10 Speaker 1: Definitely have the one on the go ahead gains you shall me twere or for testimony. You're about to give us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing the truth.

1:21 Speaker 2: So help you guys. Do you believe that our government is in possessions and the agents?

1:24 Speaker 1: Absolutely?

1:31 Speaker 4: All right, everybody, welcome back to Total Disclosure. I am your host, tie and today we have a remarkable show planned for you. Before I get into it, I just want to say thank you to all of our subscribers and members on YouTube. You guys are the lifeblood of this community, and if you want to become a part of that community, get access to add free content. A yearly gift bonus clips and special access books. You can click join below on YouTube, But if you're listening on one of the amazing podcast platforms like Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, et cetera, go the extra mile, leave a rating and review and share the show.

2:15 Speaker 4: It all helps. It's free, and it gets us to wider audiences so I can continue bringing the best content to you. Twenty twenty five is going to be a wonderful year. We're going to be flying more guests in to Boston to have in studio conversations and it's it's just a dream come true that the podcast has come so far. Today. I have Thomas Ferrario and he has worked as a dive master, machinist and electrical engineer on projects in the United States, Red China, and Bermuda. He also likes long walks on the beaches for any single ladies out there, just kidding.

2:58 Speaker 4: He has been an independent researcher since nineteen sixty nine, all the way to nineteen ninety eight, which at which point Wallet Andrews, founder of Moufon, asked him to become a section director for mofon. Later, he would go on to be the assistant State director for Missouri Moufon Ooh, got a lot to talk about there. He then co founded the Mofon Dive team and Ferrario then joined Ted Phillips as his assistant in two thousand and six and later became part of Ted's SIU team. He assisted Ted Phillips on his Marley Woods project and his Tara Mountain Moonshaft project.

3:37 Speaker 4: Welcome to the show for the first time, Thomas Forrario. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

3:50 Speaker 1: Hello Tyler, It's good to be here.

3:53 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show. What an introduction. So, I guess one of the first things I've been following what you've been posting, what you know some of your work. I've dived a dove a little deeper into on Facebook. You post a lot I for guests who maybe don't know as much about you. Can you give us a little bit about your backstory, how you got into a field like UFOs and you know, the things beyond the known.

4:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to go there.

4:34 Speaker 5: And it's been I can't believe it's been almost forty eight years now.

4:39 Speaker 1: I've been involved, and you followed you. I started very young.

4:42 Speaker 5: I grew up in a rural area had some family members had experiences. I had a couple of experiences, and I got to know different people in.

4:53 Speaker 1: The community that they came to me.

4:54 Speaker 5: They knew that I would take their stories, their accounts to experience just that they had seriously and I wouldn't ridicule him.

5:04 Speaker 1: And of course ridicule is no part of the scientific process.

5:07 Speaker 5: But uh, but anyway, I was into it all my life, and then I came to a point I felt I had to get better schooled at it and get some a little bit of guidance where I was going to go with it. And uh, just on a whim, I called on a Sunday afternoon, Uh, Waltanders and John Schusler, and uh, on the course of a three hour phone call with him, I will tell you that Walt Andris made me a section director and gave me the name of a very great gentleman that became my lifelong friend, Bruce Whiteman, which was the first date director of Mutual UFO and Missouri, and of course Mutual UFO of Missouri was That's where it's it's beginning started with mc donald douglas engineer started MOFON to get a scientific approach at the subject matter.

6:06 Speaker 5: But anyway, I got in touch with Bruce Whiteman. And when I told Bruce that Walt had made me a section director, he said, well the heck you are, He said, I gotta meet you first, and we got to you're not even a Moufon member. So I went and had a meeting with Bruce Whiteman and we became lifelong friends. And I had a lot of experiences with him. I will tell you that I can go into later, But in the process of that, I'd met a lot of great individuals. And at the time, Bruce Whiteman had some of the best conferences in the world move On conferences, so many of the people you see on the media now got their start with Bruce was their first exposure to the media.

6:55 Speaker 5: And uh, but I got to meet a gentleman there named Ted Phillips. I attended a couple of his lectures, and never thinking in a million years he would take me up on it, I offered my services to him and he took me up on it, and he brought me into one of his projects named Marley Woods and then later Moonshaft project. And with Bruce, I was involved in Red seven, which was a project. I can go into those, but so that's basically how I got my starting uthology.

7:28 Speaker 1: And it led me on a life.

7:31 Speaker 5: Long path and spent a good portion of fet Marley Woods and involved with the Moonshaft.

7:37 Speaker 1: And but that's basically my story.

7:42 Speaker 4: Okay, So what is what's the moon Shaft project?

7:48 Speaker 1: It's just a brief synopsis of that.

7:52 Speaker 5: It's a it's an artifact in Slovakia that was found by a guy, a gentleman named Antone Hoak that was a Czech mining engineer and his family owned mining industries there. And actually Madame Curie was the first got her first radium and made pitch blend and all that from the Antine's mines. But his story was in World War Two, the Nazis took possession of his family's estate and in prison the family and him, he escaped. He joined the underground and in the process he became a captain, and him and two of his men after they escaped, were wounded in this mountainous area and a sheep herder by the name of Slovak found him and his men and hid them in a cave.

8:53 Speaker 5: And of course in Slovakia caves are even to this day, I'm told you can't explore caves.

8:59 Speaker 1: It's again the law. And he hid them in this cave, told him not to go any farther in the cave. In the process. Antone was an engineer. He knew what should be in a cave. He knew geology, He spoke three different languages, had about seven degrees in engineering. And he proceeded to find in the end of this cave a black op like an onyx polished onyx half crescent moon, extended very up into the rock, into the mountain and extended.

9:32 Speaker 5: Below as far as he could see. And in the process he dug away from it, he found a crack in it. He crawled within this object, which they called the moonshaft, and he found a waving two inch metal grill like at the bottom. When he breaked away all the debris, and some of the debris hit him in the face. Came up with a warm air, and he described what he could hear in the bottom of this object as being like heavy turbines running down there. And this makes absolutely no sense. Here, you have instrumentality self maintaining running for eons.

10:10 Speaker 5: There were still lag tightest lagmites grolling on this object. So basically that's the story in the nutshell. And Ted Phillips did get back there twice. He found the cave, he actually couldn't get in the process of the Germans were carpet bombing this area. It did collapse part of the cave and they couldn't get back in.

10:33 Speaker 1: They'd have to go back and excavate.

10:35 Speaker 5: And then in the present a war broke out again when Ted was there and the geopolitical area was locked him out of that area. So we spent a good deal of our time trying to get back there and never made it. And here again we made some plans with Ben Hansen and we're still working on that.

10:56 Speaker 1: Of course, I know you probably know Ben Okay witness in that which we did film some shows with him, and Nordi's in the Cube was one of the shows that did get to air. We filmed actually at Marley Woods.

11:12 Speaker 5: But anyway, then the war broke out again and we were we were locked at and now it's becoming a little bit more open again, so we think we have hopes of getting back there.

11:23 Speaker 1: So but anyway, that's the nutshell, The Moonshaft story in a nutshell.

11:29 Speaker 4: Right and and so Ted Ted. Ted's an interesting character because he he also signed because he was a maybe he founded the what is it the Center for Physical Trace object or Evidence, I should say.

11:47 Speaker 5: So he wanted to get back there, and you know he actually on top of the mountain on where this object was. Ted had a tryfield meter and compass would go crazy over this object in the top of the mountain. The trifield meter would do a perfect two seconds sweep. Every two seconds he'd get a strong indication of a lot of activity down there. And uh so he documented that. So it and Ted was I'll tell you he was a physical trace man. And over the years, you know, Ted worked with Professor Allen Heinick and he was the man in the field for he did the physical trace.

12:33 Speaker 5: And another gentleman we can go in tonight. You know, Jacques Valet was a good friend at Ted's and Jock worked with Allen, and Jock did all the software and his programs he wrote, and Ted was the man in the field.

12:48 Speaker 1: So there was quite a team there, I will tell you.

12:51 Speaker 4: I know you So that's a that's a great trio right there with Ted with the physical trace Jay Allen Heinich bringing the you know, the science and the astronomy, and and then Jacques with the uh computer engineering. So wow wow. So I had no idea the connections ran that deep with with this, so one of them. That's amazing. So so maybe let's start off. Uh uh, I don't want to, I don't want to backtrack. But have you ever had an experience of your own?

13:32 Speaker 1: Yes?

13:33 Speaker 5: I did, And you know, it's the first thing you you learn when you go when you become you take investigator training uh with move On the Mutual UFO network. And I must say that Ted Phillips wrote chapters in the book at the move On book on how to do physical trace cases and how to you know, do the analysis and take sampling and grid patterns and but right under there were other experts in psychology that wrote the book on interviewing people. And one of the things that you know, you from the very beginning you learn is you never take your personal experiences that you have had or learned in the field when you're out with a witness or anything, and even high contact, you know, you never little simple things like nodding your head yes.

14:22 Speaker 1: When you're telling your story. You don't want to subject them to any influence.

14:27 Speaker 5: So my own personal experiences and we never talked about that, but I will tell you my parents had experiences. I as a young boy, had an experience and and here again it's now I have because I've gone in and departed. I go where a lot of euthologists don't want to go, and some will throw rocks at you.

14:53 Speaker 1: I've ended up in.

14:55 Speaker 5: But and I will tell you that all the top eufologists that I've dealt with the years, I know from Ted speaking Alan went there.

15:05 Speaker 1: Ted ended up there, and so many others I know ended up in this realm. But uh, and that is basically that they're not interplanetaria. It's all interdimensional. But knowing that and what I would I come.

15:22 Speaker 5: I worked with some great theologians, even in that we're involved with Moufon, and one in Saint Louis act actually, Reverend John Schroeder was kind of a Muffon Field chaplain to us in Saint Louis. But I basically what I had as a young boy, now I knew, you know, when I joined Muffon, there's there was like twenty seven thirty different so called species of aliens.

15:50 Speaker 1: And what I had my.

15:51 Speaker 5: Experience was was what's known now as a reptilian, and I virtually One night, I was in my bed and I thought.

16:02 Speaker 1: It was a thunderstorm.

16:04 Speaker 5: I got out of my bed and I had a cedar chest in front of my window, and I got on a cedar chest. We had a field behind our house, and as I got up on the cedar chest to look out, I was trying to look in the field, seeing some flashes a lot. I didn't know what it was. And as I'm kneeling on his chest looking out my window, I motion catches in front of me and I look and as I'm watching out my window, I see a number torso and head come right in front of my head, which would have put this later. I went outside and tried to measure this.

16:46 Speaker 5: It would have been approximately a entity of seven foot plus. But anyway, it turned around and as I'm looking out the window and walked right in front of me, and it's head turned and it looked at me with huge yellow amber eyes, and it was what's known as a reptilian now now. After seeing this, my next memory was I woke up in my mother and father's bedroom.

17:18 Speaker 1: I was on the floor.

17:19 Speaker 5: And my father stepped out of his out of the bed and actually woke me up. He stepped on my stomach and he was extremely anger, in anger, thinking he hurt injured me, and he said, what are you doing in our bedroom like that?

17:35 Speaker 1: He goes, what's wrong? And at that time I loved again.

17:39 Speaker 5: I loved dinosaurs, and I just all I could think to explain to him at that age. I told him, I said, well, Tyrannosaurus man was in my outside my window, and.

17:53 Speaker 1: So it was an experience.

17:56 Speaker 5: You know, to this day, I'm going to be I hate to date myself if I can't believe it, but I'm going to be seventy years old, and to this day, that's the most extreme, vivid memory I have in my memory bank. Now, knowing what I know, now, I know and I believe with all my heart that it absolutely was not a reptilian alien. I do believe it was a dimensional being. And there again I can tell you and we'll go into that, but dimensional beings have the ability to make you perceive them to be whatever you want them to be, and they can read you.

18:39 Speaker 5: And let me tell you, they can't read your mind. They can read your emotions, and that's just as good. I've seen demonstrations. But I do believe that they have the ability to come here and they'll be whatever you want to see, whatever you're looking for, that's what they'll be.

18:56 Speaker 1: Now that being said, whenever.

18:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry. When you're here, your case that was you were infatuated with dinosaurs, so that's what you perceived it as.

19:09 Speaker 1: I believe that had something to do with it. I actually do.

19:13 Speaker 4: Uh.

19:13 Speaker 1: Now, it wasn't a classical dinosaur. It was what's portrayed the whole body structure, the head as a reptilian. Uh. But I don't believe that to be the case. And but that being said.

19:26 Speaker 5: When they're on this side of the dimensional boundary, they are physically and that's where people mistake this. They are absolutely physically as real as you and I. They leave physical trace in that mode, so they are real, and that goes into the big foot sidings. I will tell you that, you know, and that gets into another realm dimension cryptids.

19:57 Speaker 1: But I truly believe that they will take the shape and.

20:01 Speaker 5: Form of whatever they want to be perceived at, or what you're looking to see, they will be.

20:08 Speaker 1: So do you do you.

20:11 Speaker 4: That's a good it's a good segue. It's a good that's a good basis because Jacques Valet obviously, you know, we just spoke about him, and you know that this theory that or has this theory that folklore, right, uh, folklore and you know fairies and uh, the name is just kind of progressed through the years, right, we've kind of changed it based on on on societal beliefs. Do you think that do you find that there's credence to what Jacques is saying?

20:53 Speaker 5: Well, I will tell you one of the pleasures and great joys in my life because of Ted Phillips and him still being having a working relationship with Jock at when I was working with Ted at project on Marley Woods, Jockvala spent time with us, and believe me, there was no greater joy than working with Jock Valle. And uh, but I you know, and at this point I will have to just tell you working with Jock and I have it up on my wall. You have it framed. What he led us to believe and what he one of his guidance out there that he informed us was the UFO phenomena represents evidence of other dimensions that simply cannot be understood apart from their psychic and symbolic reality.

21:43 Speaker 5: What we see here is not an alien invasion. It is a spiritual system that acts on humans and uses humans.

21:51 Speaker 1: And that was his.

21:52 Speaker 5: Statement, and that's quite a statement, believe me. And if you if you read between the lines there, I do believe, and we came away, you can you have the answers to ninety nine percent of ufology, cryptids, and even spiritualism. It's all in the same look which, believe me, at one time, I would not have gone there.

22:19 Speaker 1: I was like Ted. I was a nuts and bolts man.

22:22 Speaker 5: I wanted to get out and find a piecer of saucer, and Ted took he'd go out in the field, you know, with compaction tools and measure the imprints from three pads and figure out these craft. You know, we're in excess twenty thirty thousand pounds twenty thirty foot disc that weighs over twenty thirty thousand pounds.

22:42 Speaker 1: And that's where I wanted.

22:43 Speaker 5: To be, and I feel, you know, I apologize to people in the field that if I was out doing a UFO investigation and somebody started mentioning Bigfoot or Cryptid.

22:54 Speaker 1: I'd just leave the room. I didn't want to be part of that. I didn't want to time together, and I apologize to people for that, but I will tell you that's exactly where I ended up. And it's all one and the same, it all comes from the same source. It's interdimensional, and we'll go into that, but but that's a lot of what we've come to believe. I will tell you.

23:22 Speaker 4: I and and and I'm on that same kind of path as well where I started more as the nuts and bolts. But the longer you're in it, the longer, the longer you're a part of the community, and the more you dig, the more it just the nuts and bolt stuff. Yeah, make like it's the easiest to maybe wrap your head around. And I think that's why so many people do latch onto it because it's something that that, you know, like a craft in the sky. Okay, I can wrap my head around that, right, something that's coming from a different dimension though that starts, you know, really challenging people's not just BLAE systems, but their reality.

24:06 Speaker 5: I'll tell you I and here again. Working with Ted Phillips. I was introduced through him and met and became good friends with and we worked he worked with Ted and that Stanton T. Freeman, the nuclear physicist you're probably aware of. I know, and he worked with Ted and Us. And Stanton kind of broke my heart when I first met him years ago, back in ninety eight, because I was a tricky I admit it now.

24:34 Speaker 1: But Stanton told me.

24:36 Speaker 5: He asked me one day, he said, well, what do you think of that, Tom, that there's science in that?

24:43 Speaker 1: How do you believe that?

24:44 Speaker 5: And I said, well, I don't believe we have that capability, but I think we will one day Stan. And Stan told me he broke my heart here. He said, he said, well, Tom, do you realize He said that to take a solid object to side of a pee and to attain light speed would be the combined energy output of the Earth for one hundred years. Now do you think it's practical? We're going to build a starship? And I wasn't going to argue with a nuclear physicist. But he introduced me, you know, to some astro physicists, and they all virtually they told me they proved to me on paper and they he said, we're you know, we're never going to really attain light speed.

25:32 Speaker 5: And I said, oh, you're kidding me, you know, why do you say that? And they said, well, the physics are that are involved in it. It's it's it's impossible. And they proved to me on so many levels, you know. And and here like just one thing that stuck out to me they said, was, you know, an individual person weighing two hundred pounds, by the time you would get anywhere close to the light speed, that two hundred pounds is in excess of two thousand pounds, which means you'd have to increase your energy output by two factor of two thousand and more.

26:12 Speaker 5: Plus it's an expanding universe. There are some universes that are some are going almost in excess that close to the speed of light.

26:25 Speaker 1: So even to.

26:28 Speaker 5: You know, receive a message, if you were lucky enough to receive a message, by the time that society, that culture, you receive their message, they'd.

26:38 Speaker 4: Be long gone, long gone, right, And.

26:43 Speaker 5: That broke my heart, believe me, you know. So, And it's just the science and the physics. And I have people ask me, you know, and I asked them, I said, well, why do you feel the physics here would work in another universe? And they said, the physics we have here work throughout all the universes, because if it didn't work in another universe, it would the math wouldn't work and it would all fall apart. And now they did tell me, though, when you go interdimensional, it all changes. Anything's possible.

27:18 Speaker 5: And people always tell me, well, you don't believe on life on other planets. I said, no, I absolutely do. But the way it's going to be done is and stand said this too, is when you go interdimensional. That's when you have all this at your disposal. You have access to this because the physics are different there, and it's just a different, you know, a different story there. So that was my first, you know, introduction to the sciences of the physics of light, the traveling at light speed. And and I wasn't I'm in no way going to argue with these people, and they proved it to me, and I to this day I believe that.

28:01 Speaker 1: And but that was my exposure to a lot of these people.

28:08 Speaker 4: So I guess the next so, so I guess that could explain a lot of maybe why they're they're so intrigued or it seems that they have this like overwatch protocol on our nuclear weapons.

28:27 Speaker 5: Uh.

28:28 Speaker 4: And this has been something that's long been suspected is you know what if every time we set off one of these these these weapons of pure chaos, pure destruction, that we're doing far more damage somewhere else than we are here, you know, on the surface level. And I think that could really explain why the bell kind of got wrung and there was an increase because I think these things have been coming here longer than you know, the nuclear age. But I think I'm really ramped up once we rang that bell because they were like, whoa listen.

29:10 Speaker 4: You know, every time you set one of those things off, you're kind of ripping the fabric of reality apart.

29:16 Speaker 5: You're exactly right, and they taught me, you know, the only thing that exists there are elements of a nuclear fusion or a nuclear explosion. There are elements of that that can transgress the interdimensional boundary. So that is why they're so interested in our nuclear development and programs that they monitor us.

29:43 Speaker 1: And in some instance.

29:44 Speaker 5: I don't have to tell you, probably well aware of their air force bases that were shut down completely.

29:49 Speaker 4: I just I did have the yeah time, iasure. Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. For anyone who's listening, there's a little bit. We're doing this virtually, so is a little bit of a delay. But I literally just got off the phone with Bob Sallie. He was at Malmstrom for the sixty seven incident, and him and I are working together on something right now, pretty big, but and it will evolve. It involves other witnesses from other from the mine, not incident a year or not even a year, six months earlier than that sixty six mine, not sixty seven Malmstrom, then Vandenberg.

30:39 Speaker 4: I mean, it seems these things have been breaching our military basis, specifically nuclear capable missile bases for fifty years, sixty years, maybe longer.

30:54 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, since the beginning then. And you know, I just have to add it this point that the UAP, s UFOs, whatever the label today is, these things been here. They go back to the beginning of mankind, uh recorded history. They're absolutely biblical, I will tell you, and believe me, I learned more than I thought i'd ever learned from theologians that worked with the mutual ufone network and some other things. I could go into experiences I've had with individuals, but they've always been here, and it's it's been a process of.

31:39 Speaker 1: You could call them the watchers or whatever, but I can go into it even leads us into now of all things, all the instant the drone flat. We're having that right now with all then.

31:52 Speaker 4: Yes, I do want to talk about that. Yeah, when we when we get there. But so, what is what?

32:02 Speaker 1: What?

32:03 Speaker 4: What would you say one of the things that you worked on case whatever it may be? What? What is there something that sticks out the most that that kind of changed you from nuts and bolts to there's way more going on here than I ever thought possible specific case, whatever.

32:29 Speaker 1: It may be. Yeah, there, there definitely is.

32:35 Speaker 5: And I will warn you at this point that going into this area gets into some pretty touchy territory.

32:43 Speaker 1: There's some people that don't like this. I like it, uh I.

32:49 Speaker 5: Actually the gentleman I mentioned earlier Bruce Whitteman, which was a state director of the mutual uf ON network in Missouri, and I got to be as assistant.

32:58 Speaker 1: For a number of years.

33:02 Speaker 4: You're really popular right now.

33:04 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I got two lines coming in here and it's crazy all day.

33:13 Speaker 1: But I will tell you that through Bruce.

33:16 Speaker 5: He asked me one day if i'd be interested in work going with him. He had been contacted back in two thousand and two by a gentleman that the government actually at that point wanted to do a disclosure project and they contacted Bruce because they wanted to share it with the media, and they wanted to incorporate this with a mutual ufhone network because of course Mutual ufone network was one of the first outfits and it was started in Missouri, and they contacted Bruce and they wanted him in on this.

33:50 Speaker 5: So Bruce asked me and I said, absolutely, I want to be a part of this.

33:56 Speaker 1: So it's a long story. We ended up we went to Las Vegas.

34:00 Speaker 5: We were going to fly in the area fifty one on Janit air Lines, and we waited several two days for the go ahead and they decided they canceled it that meeting, which I could go into that later too. But at another point, and this sounds like the X Files, I can go into that story too about the X file, but it was very cloak and dagger, And I will tell you that I.

34:28 Speaker 1: Met with Bruce.

34:29 Speaker 5: We had a specific place and we met the first time with a gentleman that all we knew our contact name was.

34:36 Speaker 1: He was known as Red to us.

34:39 Speaker 5: And Red actually got Bruce and I in the two meetings with people, and actually one meeting, the last meeting we were going to do was actually we went to Maryland. We went to Chronicle and like you see in the movie We're at we're at a long table.

35:01 Speaker 1: Our handler, I call him Brad, was there. We waited several hours and we were notified. They came out they changed their mind again. They weren't going to do disclosure. And our guy read told us he said he seen we were aggravated again and man, and he said, well, guys, let me tell you how it works. He said, there's two regimes. He said, there's the young regime and the old regime.

35:27 Speaker 5: The young wants to release everything to the public, and the old regime feels like it's not their duty the spoon feed this information to everybody, and they won't. And unfortunately they're the they're the guys the pay grade that signs the checks Verdal and that's where it stands.

35:47 Speaker 1: So we had other meetings after that, learned a little but and there the media was in on this meeting. Other people were there and it was called off. So

35:59 Speaker 1: that is how intricate this goes.

36:03 Speaker 5: But I will tell you that what I got out a meeting with this gentleman was and Red said, you know, after this meeting, we didn't learn much.

36:12 Speaker 1: We learned a few things. He said. You guys can speak about this all you want. I don't care. But he did inform us on one thing.

36:21 Speaker 5: And I must say at this point that Red's been gone. He died of cancer several years ago. But he did inform us on another thing.

36:32 Speaker 6: I was not.

36:34 Speaker 1: My head wasn't couldn't wrap around this. But I did learn through Red that.

36:41 Speaker 5: And to this day, if I had to prove the existence of this intelligence to dimensional beings, the one place on Earth I would go would be the Vatican. Now that being said, we were shown how to this day our government has a working relationship with a Vatican. Even in the beginning, our founding fathers, the beginning, they taught our government compartmentalization, how to keep secrets, how to keep things black. And believe me, they do, and they work with a great organization called the Jesuits, which are the scholars in that field.

37:22 Speaker 5: But believe me, and the one thing Red informed us was he said, he said, Tom Bruce, he said, you guys can share whatever you want in the ufology, but don't ever go there about the working relationship.

37:36 Speaker 1: With a Vatican and our government. So I this blew me away.

37:41 Speaker 5: I said, so UFOs are okay to talk about, but our government in the Vatican is off balance.

37:50 Speaker 1: And he said, well that's the way it is. He said, you can respect me after I'm gone. I don't care what the hell you do.

37:56 Speaker 5: But so he's gone now, and I've been speaking about this for the first time, and I got to say, unfortunately we lost Bruce.

38:05 Speaker 1: Now.

38:06 Speaker 5: Bruce died of cancer almost three years ago, and so he was another one of my mentors and great great buddies that I learned so much from. So that puts this in a realm, and it goes so deep into this realm. Not prepared to go there. But the interdimensional beings and where there's the source of all this is biblical and and I can't believe I'm saying that now I've come to that, but but it is. And uh So, anyway, if you've got any questions, since it's.

38:46 Speaker 4: Fine, right, Mike, So is what is what is?

38:54 Speaker 2: Are you is?

38:54 Speaker 4: What is being said that the Vatican is the first cover up they you know, or at least the first organized cover up in the Vatican knows more than what they're letting on. David, Yeah, because I mean David Grush alluded to this, and you know, I think I think it's something that most most like you said, most people would have a hard time dealing with because of the implications of it. You know, the Vatican being involved in this cover up. Uh, why would the Vatican want to put a lid on something like this.

39:49 Speaker 5: It the reason they put a lid. It's again, knowledge is power. They don't want to relinquish any bit of power. And the information that deals with that is it is the source of what truly comes from. It's all Biblical and of course one of the greatest text there is that explains so much of this is the Bible, and it goes into the Bronze disc and some of the greatest documentary for you know, encounters are in the Bible, Biblical and you know, here again I was exposed. I met a man that was a seminary student.

40:30 Speaker 5: I used to give his name out. His families asked me, now, please don't give his name out, and I hate it, burned. It kills me not to be able to give his name now because I like to document everything I do. But he was a seminary student, and the man knew coin Greek, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew. And he was a seminary student. His family was wealthy. They sent him their own and at that time, back in the eighties, they were.

41:00 Speaker 1: Having a problem a lot of the catacombs underneath the Vatican that it's the greatest summing, even the Library of Alexandria that has elements there that they the church rescued from the burning.

41:15 Speaker 5: But they had trouble with mold destroying the documents. And the way they handled that was they would take seminary students that had this ability to translate these documents. They would take them in and there again compartmentalization.

41:32 Speaker 1: Uh.

41:33 Speaker 5: They would bring in a seminary student, he would, you know, trans transfer, translate a paragraph, a page, usually not more in the page or two, and he'd be out of there. He'd never get the full picture. And they did this to the point where they actually got retired priests and scholars, theologians that were when they reached age of seventy years old.

42:01 Speaker 1: They actually have housing there.

42:04 Speaker 5: These people come there as labor of love for their religion and for this, and they work the rest virtually they agree to. They give them the whole books to translate, and they do this, but their their house, fed, clothed there. They never leave the rest of their life these facilities, and that's how they do this. So there is a process there. Now, some of the seminary, these students, of course, when they got out of there, they did they go somewhere and sounds funny, but they go have a beer somewhere and they'd share their thoughts and they get a bigger picture of this, what was going on, what kind of materials.

42:44 Speaker 5: So they did come away with a pretty good idea of what the route, the core of all this meant. So and I was exposed to that again, I can't believe you know that I was. But that's what turned me around in this and made me and I you know, I was a Catholic, I grew up a Catholic. I fell away from the church for years, and I never in a million years thought this field would bring me back to the church. But it absolutely has, and it did with Ted and and even Heinez ended up there and so many others.

43:24 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot. I don't know, if you know, the woman named Diana Pasoka, but in her book American Cosmic, she as a person who is pseudonymed in the in the book, his name's Tyler. Ironically that's my name. But she was taken by Tyler to the Vatican archives. And she doesn't go into too much detail about what was shown to her, but a lot of it aligns with what you're saying right now. And I Tyler, the guy that she went with, he is a NASA launch control officer or or to that degree. Most people know who he is by now, so I don't think it's a secret anymore.

44:24 Speaker 4: Tim Taylor is widely considered who that is. She's never confirmed it nor denied it.

44:33 Speaker 1: But the.

44:36 Speaker 4: The one thing you know with David grush David Greshman the Vatican and then potential crash retrieval. Do you think that the Vatican do you think the Vatican may have pieces or intact craft, just like say the US government.

44:55 Speaker 1: Does you know? I've heard a couple of specific crashes there in Italy that they did get pieces from. I can't speak on that.

45:06 Speaker 5: I don't really know, but I do know that the documentation, you know, the manuscripts that pre date most of history are there. Like I said, the Library of Alexandria that was burned and they thought was lost. The Church saved a good deal of that, and they don't want to speak about that because what it contains. And but you know, it even gets into like the gentleman I mentioned, Reverend John Schroeder was in of course, Saint Louis McDonald, Douglas, the astronauts all training, the Apollo astronauts all trained there.

45:43 Speaker 5: A lot of the astronauts had experiences that it's coming out now, they're making them up.

45:48 Speaker 1: But Reverend John Schroeder was kind of like their chaplain.

45:53 Speaker 5: They would speak with him and share things with him and try to get some understanding and try to put things right in their own mind what they see experience. And uh so the man was very knowledgeable in that again in his knowledge of the Vatican. Uh So, it's it basically, you know, it all goes into the fact that these things are It all comes from the interdimensional source. And quite frankly, what comes across a lot doesn't have the authority to be here and and there again, and we do.

46:30 Speaker 1: We're on this side, we were put on this side. We do have the authority to be here.

46:35 Speaker 5: And but that being said, you know, people have to realize just simple little things when you call upon things to come out, just even ghost hunters when they get out there and they call upon this stuff Ouiji boord seance, uh, just you know, even going and putting.

46:59 Speaker 1: Yourself in to a trance to communicate with these things, which so many people do, and they think they're all part of the Intergalactic Foundation Federation and they're dealing with something that they don't truly understand the source and its motivation. But in doing that, you're giving them the authority to be on this side. So you have to realize that you do have you do have the power over this.

47:26 Speaker 5: But if you give it the authority away, you're going to open yourself up to deal with things that believe me, this intelligence, as Ted Phillips said, when we dealt with this aid Marley, and we can go into that some of what we dealt with this intelligence, Like Ted said, you're never going to be ahead of it. It's always one step ahead of you. And as they're finding out in skin Walker, and I am good friends with the producer of Skinwalker, we were going to do some things out in Marley didn't work out.

48:01 Speaker 1: The property owners backed out.

48:04 Speaker 5: We did shoot with Ben Hansen, UFO Witness and way back we did a thing with UFO Hunters.

48:13 Speaker 1: So I will tell you that.

48:17 Speaker 5: And you know, there again at Skinwalker, they're they're dealing with us and they even brought in some spiritual people with pretty good results. And uh but that gets into the microwave spectrum that they deal with out there, which was what we dealt in Marley that we felt was the bad guy. They the intelligence used microwave, uh in that realm energy realm to do we found out was the bad guy. They did the damage to animals and people. And so Skinwalker found is finding that out. And and Beyond Skinwalker, I will tell you I'm friends with that producer.

48:57 Speaker 5: We were going to do first year Beyond Skinwalker was going to be at Marley and we had a death out there at.

49:04 Speaker 1: One of the property owners, and of course the other one backed out after that.

49:08 Speaker 5: So but it and skin Walker is an accus it's a mirror image of Marley Woods. And there again the initial the first person to do research at Skinwalker, you know, was Robert Bigelow, and I can talk about it now. We worked with Robert Bigelow was out at our at Marley and we worked with him. There was a disagreement on property rights and it didn't work out, but they were great people. They really were a lot of people don't feel that way, but we had a good working relationship with him. And so I can tell you on so many levels I have been proven and come to find out this is all in her dimensional and we proved it at Marley.

49:57 Speaker 5: Jacques Vallet proved it at Marley. And I even have him on my YouTube channel speaking about Marley Woods. I interviewed him and I put that on my YouTube channel, which is free. Anybody can go there watch He's Little. I've got thirty movies there, and you can watch the one with Josh Lay speaking about Marley Woods.

50:16 Speaker 1: What happened? It doesn't get any better than that.

50:19 Speaker 4: So I'll put all those links in the description below. But I want to tell me so from the beginning. Let's start at the beginning of Marley. How do you so you get involved with Ted and how how does Marley Woods, how does it come up? How how do you guys hear about it? What leads you there? And then what ultimately you know? What what happens.

50:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be glad to.

50:54 Speaker 5: And it all started basically with the property owner of what I call we called with Site one and Site two. And actually there are two large ranches which butt up to one another, and they're owned by two different property owners or one and one passed away. Now his family maintains that and it had been in the family for almost three hundred years. It's hard that you can imagine this back in Native American culture these but Site one is approximately at times it approaches seven hundred acres and Site two it approaches twelve hundred acres at times.

51:38 Speaker 5: So that's a large amount of real estate for ted small team.

51:43 Speaker 1: To cover at times, you know.

51:46 Speaker 5: But it all started when the property owners Site one, which is a prolific writer, and he took photos and journals he contacted back in the nineties. He wanted answers and he acted. The only thing he could find to do this was the mutual UFO network and he called. Of course, he got in contact with Bruce Woodhaman and he asked Bruce if he could come out there and investigate this, told.

52:13 Speaker 1: Him what was going on, and sent Bruce part of his one of his journals.

52:21 Speaker 5: So Bruce at the time was busy and he felt he didn't have enough expertise to get into this area. So Ted Phillips was a good friend of Bruce and he told Ted about this, and Ted initially he thought, you know, he's been chasing bread.

52:38 Speaker 1: Crumb's on UFOs all his life. There was more lights in the sky. He didn't really want to get involved in it.

52:44 Speaker 5: So Bruce sent him this part of the journal and Ted read the journal, and within three days of reading the journal, Ted got out to the ranch and started investigating this and for this first time ever, he started experiencing orts, light balls. He called him in different structured craft himself. So that's virtually why he spent the rest of his life out there, and that's why he started formed a team, the SIU team, and we got out there.

53:21 Speaker 1: He wanted to have a team.

53:23 Speaker 5: We were working with Bigelow, to be funded, to have somebody, two people, at least two people there around the clock,

53:31 Speaker 5: to be out there, and you know that level of dedication he just he felt. And Ted spent weeks and months out there himself in the beginning, but I got I met Ted through Bruce again at a MOFON conference where Ted spoke and offered my services. And Ted asked me, he said, well what do you got and these I said, well, I do electrical work.

53:55 Speaker 1: I was worked for a.

53:57 Speaker 5: Boat company, Major boat company, did electric engineering for them to layout.

54:01 Speaker 1: And he said, how can you help me? I said, well, anything you need electrical Ted.

54:06 Speaker 5: So I went out there and first couple of months I was putting up cameras, climbing ricad the old windmills, putting running cameras. We set up and one of the property owners on side one is such a great man. He built Ted a two level, two story metal structure. His office was in the top floor and sleeping quarters, kitchen, everything below for Ted to use. And we used that all the time. And that's how I got exposed to this. I came out there and spent time with Ted, and then Ted got three other individuals out there, Adam Johnson and Wie Ziggemeyer.

54:50 Speaker 5: And I don't know if you ever heard of that name, but Debbie is quite a gal. I colled my sister Wee years ago started Mutual UFO dive team for John Schuster and uh and she wrote the book I Think the Alien Colonization of Earth's Waterways and she's been on several shows. But and she's still the state director with all this going on for Missouri for the mutual ufone network and she's on the board of the Mutual Uphone network. So oh yeah, she's a great gal. She could fill your show, believe me. Uh, she's had more experiences in investigations than you can name.

55:36 Speaker 5: But but Ted, we've we start, we had a few other members out there, and it was quite an experience, I will tell you, dealing with all the high strangeness out there.

55:50 Speaker 1: And and even John Clay said, you know, he's he he says even on that.

55:56 Speaker 5: When I interviewed him, he said he felt that Marley had had a higher probability for strange cases and things going on than skin Walker. Now that's quite a statement.

56:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a large statement to make. Where is So is it is Marley Woods in Missouri?

56:17 Speaker 5: I can say that now it is in Missouri. For a long time, Ted wouldn't even speak what.

56:22 Speaker 1: State it was in.

56:24 Speaker 4: And we do that not yeah, okay, so you know, we don't do that to.

56:30 Speaker 1: Build uh you know, to dramatize it or anything.

56:35 Speaker 5: It's just we owed it. Ted felt to the property owner. Now I witnesses Ted had over two hundred witnesses catalog in their statements we dealt with in Marley, say, and but every one of them, of course, didn't want their name. They you know, want to complete anonymity and uh, they didn't want anybody to come back knocking on their door and uh and there again.

56:57 Speaker 1: Now it's it puts the credibility.

57:00 Speaker 5: If a witness doesn't want to ever go on record and doesn't make a dime off this and they don't have their name ever known, what purpose is there in making this stuff up?

57:09 Speaker 1: You know?

57:10 Speaker 4: So bingo And that's what I find.

57:17 Speaker 1: To be.

57:19 Speaker 4: That's why those are the cases where I'm like, all right, let's look again, because you know, none of these people even want any recognition. They don't want to do the UFO lecture circuit. They they just want to tell their story, have it, you know, be on record, but they.

57:39 Speaker 1: Don't want.

57:42 Speaker 4: The stigma attached to it. And you know that says a lot about a witness again, because there are people in this community who make up stories and try to profit off of them. We've seen it time and time again. So what what kind of I mean are we talking the old bucket, you know, cattle mutilation, crop circles, Marley Woods is to have it all.

58:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, at this point I just got it.

58:12 Speaker 5: I had a good friend Chris O'Brien which did was in cattle mutilation. He did with Linda Mullenhowe in the beginning Snippy the Horse. He just passed away.

58:23 Speaker 1: Chris did. And I couldn't believe when I got the word.

58:26 Speaker 5: But then Chris actually stayed in my home here a couple of times when he was in Saint when I'd bring him in. He'd speak at Muffon lectures in Saint Louis, Missouri, and uh he on the way out each stay at my house on the way back home, and headed back to Saint Luis Valley.

58:45 Speaker 1: You know. But h and Chris was exposed.

58:50 Speaker 5: He studied some of the reports of cattle mutilations we had in Marley and it was so similar exactly what he'd been, you know, investigating in it out there. And but we've had cattle mutilations in Marley, We've had harsh mutilation.

59:07 Speaker 1: We've had.

59:09 Speaker 5: Just what we call the unseen force, which is a force that knocks down steel gates, log chain together pulls hinge pins out of oak post, doesn't put a scratch on the gates, knocks people down out there, it injures people.

59:29 Speaker 5: And we've had light ball activity, which that gets into a whole science the coloration of light balls and plasma. Some complastoids now and but plasma balls of light you can go into the science of the coloration of those things. We've had cryptids, a wide array of cryptids out there. You're talking three four pounds plus polar bear, slash sloth kind of critters. The property owners and we got a couple actually images photos of these things.

1:00:08 Speaker 1: We got out, took physical trace.

1:00:11 Speaker 5: We found We pulled off sixteen inch long white hairs off a fence and took poor tracks, cast the tracks out there, sent these in for DNA and microscopy. The hair samples come back, no, no match, So it does happen. We had bigfoot sightings near there.

1:00:34 Speaker 1: Now.

1:00:34 Speaker 5: Of course we know there's not a breeding population of these critters like Ted called them out there, but when they come across the dimensional boundary and they're there there is realists you and I and they exhibit force. Lay down physical trace, right, you have that we had structured craft out there various kinds cylindrical, black tubular crafts, you know, two three hundred foot long.

1:01:03 Speaker 1: Property owners had seen disc shape, graft foot and all kind of cryptis again involved in this so and one abduction out there actually, so.

1:01:17 Speaker 4: Any any government, you know, like at Skinwalker, they'll see like black helicopters coming over. Without you know, going into too much detail, I know you want to kind of keep the place a little bit more secretive, But do you think that there's an operation by our government and that they know that that may be a hotspot?

1:01:46 Speaker 1: You know, we're we're quite aware that they know of the place.

1:01:51 Speaker 5: But do we ever do we think that there was ever any government involvement out there, or do we think they were actually watched in.

1:02:00 Speaker 1: Our back or did we have black helicopters or that sort of thing. We as far as we know, there wasn't. We never experienced that in any degree.

1:02:10 Speaker 5: And even when we addressed the microwave uh realm with this, that didn't damage to people.

1:02:18 Speaker 1: Uh myself included, I will tell you, and Ted.

1:02:21 Speaker 5: And other property owners. We recorded that quite frequently out there, and uh and we experienced you know, one point six giga hurts like they do it skin Walker.

1:02:36 Speaker 4: That was my next question was the infamous signal of one point six gigaards. You know, I I am so okay, I'm so fascinated with this. What do you think? What's what is going on there? Because that supposedly for Earth to space based communication, correct.

1:03:04 Speaker 1: Right right?

1:03:05 Speaker 5: And and you know in the course with skin Walker the ranch there is a military basis out there and at one point six actually happens to be involved in microwave communications if you get into it. So do I think there it's possible that that comes into play with them.

1:03:27 Speaker 1: It might. I don't personally think so, but it could. You have to look at all the options, you know.

1:03:34 Speaker 5: But in our case in Marley, I we have no military basis within any proximity the of Marley, and I don't think that was a source. And I will tell you because of damage to individuals out there when we filmed out there with Ben Hansen, you know on UFO Witness and if you want to see it, it's that episode is Nordic's in the que on UFO Witness and that night out there, and I felt in my obligation, I got a new piece of equipment that was devoted that was dedicated to microwave energy and three times and when we were out in the field in midnight, no power lines around, no vehicles, no aircraft.

1:04:23 Speaker 5: I had a meter that had audible and visual cues of a warning, and this thing went, you know, from green yellow the red spectrum three times for just a brief period. And we experienced that out there at that We got that on film on that episode. And now I do believe it was just telling me that this intelligence was letting.

1:04:50 Speaker 1: Me know in particular that it was still there.

1:04:53 Speaker 5: It was very capable of doing what it did and kind of let Marley, you know what at Skinwalker, what sets off the activity when they usually when.

1:05:03 Speaker 1: They dig in the ground, things bad things happened.

1:05:07 Speaker 5: And Marley, when you interject strangers or people that had never been there before, like they weren't familiar with these individuals, usually things it would show its hand. He didn't like that bad things would happen sometimes. So but I do believe that night with the microwave, it was letting me know that it was still there, it was capable of doing what it did before and as a warning.

1:05:36 Speaker 1: So and you know, six weeks after we got done filming there, I get a call that.

1:05:42 Speaker 5: Night from the property owner's family. The property owner had passed away, had a stroke and passed away out there, so they flew him into Saint Louis. He was still but he didn't make it. And so and let me tell you that broke uh, the property owner or site one that we were, we were within six weeks of filming on Beyond skin.

1:06:10 Speaker 1: Walker and they called it off. They called me and told me to cancel. And and believe me, when you when you get back to these people that are doing the production and six weeks before you're going to do something and you let them know it's off, they're not happy with you, and they weren't happy with me. But

1:06:28 Speaker 1: they need to understand.

1:06:30 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they need to understand that there's like, like you said, Mark, I mean perspective.

1:06:37 Speaker 6: Right.

1:06:38 Speaker 4: So another thing that's talked about it skin Walker is this hitgehiker kind of effect.

1:06:49 Speaker 2: Have you do you.

1:06:51 Speaker 4: Have you or anyone else that's been out there, do you think that you have brought something home.

1:07:01 Speaker 1: I never experienced that or had that at that time, and now now Ted actually did have that effect at home. He felt on a couple of visits when he got home he actually did bring something back with him like that. So it does happen, and it is very real.

1:07:19 Speaker 5: I was fortunate, and I do believe there's other reasons why at that time it didn't latch onto me, for lack of a better word, or I never experienced that to the degree that Ted did at that time.

1:07:32 Speaker 1: But it does happen, and it's very real.

1:07:35 Speaker 5: And there again, you always have to have in your mind what you're dealing with this intelligence, and you do have control over it. But if you relinquish that or you're not careful, it can't happen very easily. So I always tell people get involved in this, you know, and they think it's some fun and cute to do. I it is, but you always have to understand that you're dealing with an intelligence that if you do experience what you want, you you have to know that what you're dealing with, and it's nothing to play around with.

1:08:14 Speaker 4: Believe me, right right. Others have said this too, you know, with you know people like that, the people like doctor Greer who are using CE five and you know, they think all these beings are love light and you know, sugar, spice and everything nice. And when has that ever been the case ever. You know, I think it's I think it's naive and I think it's it's a very dangerous way to think that you know that they're just because they may be an advanced civilization, that that that they've grown past or advanced past hostility or malevolence.

1:09:05 Speaker 4: And I just I think that's a naive way to look at this. What's your take on the abduction phenomena?

1:09:14 Speaker 5: Well, and you know, there again, I just have to throw in that like doctor Stephen Greer, Uh, I believe you know, Bruce Whiteman had him years ago in a Moufon conference.

1:09:26 Speaker 1: Was one of his first lectures or exposure to the media. And I believe he was a trauma surgeon nature, but he's one of his first media appearances was Bruce Whiteman had him to speak at a Moufon conference at Saint Louis. So virtually most anybody you could.

1:09:46 Speaker 5: Name to me had their origin at one of their first exposures in Uh. Stephen Bassett, you know, was that friend of mine, and he was exposed, you know, Bruce had them speak and uh, and I got to meet doctor Carol Rawsen Werner Von Brown's assistant had.

1:10:06 Speaker 1: A move from a conference and.

1:10:09 Speaker 5: I spoke with her about von Bron's the false flag scenario, which is something I speak about now.

1:10:16 Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, it's uh, the abduction, it does happen.

1:10:22 Speaker 5: It's not as frequently as I believe it's reported, but it absolutely is real and it happens. And and I've met abductees. I've you know, I've had I've talked to women that have spoke at move On conferences in Missouri that have lost you know, children, Uh, they feel have been abducted from you know, even from some cases from the womb and uh.

1:10:50 Speaker 1: And it was an absorption that that did did this, you know, in there, uh like, So, I mean it is real, and I mean.

1:10:59 Speaker 5: We I've seen I've been there behind the scenes with speakers like that, we're in tears, behind the scenes, didn't even want to go on and went out there and then they finally decided to make it public to help people.

1:11:14 Speaker 1: And so it is very real and it happens absolutely, and so it will. I have experienced that, you know with.

1:11:25 Speaker 4: People, right, why why would you think they would be Do you think it's kind of like what we do with with animals in the SERENGETI, you know, bag and tag, let them back out, you know, kind of monitor them or do you think there's something more sinister going on?

1:11:49 Speaker 1: You know, I absolutely believe. And this gets in the realms that really getting the touchy believe me, touchy areas. But there again, I believe a lot of it gets into biblical realms, and quite frankly, a lot of it is done and as we've seen in Marley Woods and Skinwalker, a lot of it is just used to instill fear as they control tool. Believe me, fear.

1:12:19 Speaker 5: Can control people in ways that nothing else works, and I've seen it done, and I believe, quite frankly, a lot of this is just it instills the spirit of confusion. They use fear, whether they use fear as a controlling factor or they feed of it in some ways, and so I believe in both instances that's true. But I think some of it's done just to use fear as an element of control. And even at that point, though, I will tell you that if people understand and realize even in that area, there have been I've.

1:13:02 Speaker 1: Exposed, been exposed to abductees that.

1:13:08 Speaker 5: Have known they come from a religious background, and they thought just as they were going to try something.

1:13:16 Speaker 4: You know.

1:13:17 Speaker 1: Uh, they have used.

1:13:20 Speaker 5: Actually, in some two instances I know of, they have used prayer as a medium to release themselves from the grips of these cases. And it worked for him and all else say at that point is I know of no other mechanism that people have used to put an end to one of these experiences, except there again, the religious aspect of this that has worked for some people.

1:13:47 Speaker 1: And but it's it's much more, much.

1:13:52 Speaker 5: More complex as Alan, Heinez said to Ted, And Ted actually had.

1:13:57 Speaker 1: A disagreement with Alan for this at times. But Ted said that.

1:14:04 Speaker 5: Ted told me this so many times, he said, Alan would tell him, he said, Ted, this is so much more complex than people know and believe. It's not as simple as a little gray alien coming from Alpha Centauri, you know, to meet mankind and enslave it.

1:14:22 Speaker 1: Uh.

1:14:23 Speaker 5: And Alan of course ended up in a religious aspect of this and uh, and I do believe that's where it goes. And uh, but that being said, uh, the human beings in that they get in that predicament, it's it is unbelievable and uh usually the outcome is not good, I will tell you. And as you're probably aware of a lot of the abductees, you know, uh, you know.

1:14:53 Speaker 4: Fir in the Sky, Yeah, Travis Wall, Travis, and yeah, they don't.

1:15:01 Speaker 5: You know, they did, they have not gained monetary they've made they they didn't become wealth getting gained wealth over this.

1:15:08 Speaker 1: These the witnesses in that case, they lost you know, some of them ended up divorcing.

1:15:16 Speaker 4: It.

1:15:16 Speaker 5: And more than not out of the abductees I've met, it's always been detrimental to their their life from then on.

1:15:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. If there are any you know, positive being you know, kind of loosely used here because you know, maybe their story becomes well known and you know, they're on podcasts. I've never paid a podcast guest, so you know, no one's making money off of that. The UFO lecture circuit. It's not like it's paying thousands and thousands of thousands. So again, I I'm inclined to agree with you, So I want to I want to circle back to something that you just said.

1:16:05 Speaker 4: Cal Rosen Carol someone who is fascinating her work, Like you said, she was an assistant Toner Werner von Braun who was brought to you that I you to the United States from Germany after World War Two via Operation paper Clip, given amnesty as well as a slew of other German scientists that the Soviet well the former Soviet Union, and the United States kind of divvied up to to advance their own agendas, whether it be you know, the space race or or the development of of of other weapons. So Werna von Braun, apparently on his deathbed,

1:16:58 Speaker 4: told Carol that the last flat, the last card that the US government would play would be this false flag deception of an alien invasion. And then you look around right now and you start asking was he right? What was it true? What's your take on not only the the von Brown warning, but what is happening today?

1:17:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, I will tell you that.

1:17:34 Speaker 5: And like I said, I met Carol one time at spend a couple hours with her at a lecture in Saint Louis. Bruce had her there and and she we talked in depth about his warning. And uh, and I will tell you there's when one common court.

1:17:50 Speaker 1: If I had to have anything through some of the top pufologists I've talked to an theologians, it always circled back to the fall Flag scenario. Now my take on it what.

1:18:04 Speaker 5: I've learned from these people virtually and here again like Bruce and Idea, we were on a much lower and I don't want to put myself into anywhere in the same room, whether even people like Rod Serling or Walt Disney or some of these people, but Walt Disney, Rod Serling, they were promised like we were having to start, you know, of information sharing with us, and and they went in worked with in government, you know, and started projects. And in the middle of a project, the government backed out with them.

1:18:41 Speaker 5: And I will say that especially like Rod Serling. Uh, he got so aggravated at this that he went on and you're probably aware of the of course Twilight Zone, the show he had, and he filmed an episode of this that I just it was his way and from people I talked with and knew him, it was his way of poking his finger in the government's eye. He made an episode called to Serve Man. Now, if you remember that episode, that's where the Aliens came to Earth. They wanted to share free energy, medical cures, weaponry, you name it, whatever we need it, food production.

1:19:30 Speaker 5: They were here to serve man and to give us things and it will all work out great. Now, in the movie, they taunted around this big book that they couldn't decipher, and at the very end, the scientists, the one guy is going up on the ship for a vacation on their planet and his assistant comes in yelling, screaming. They deciphered the book, and the book was to serve man It was a cookbook. Now, I don't pretend for an instant to say that's their motivation, what's gonna happen, But it's not far from that.

1:20:07 Speaker 6: Now.

1:20:08 Speaker 1: Full circle for me, from what I learned is the fake alien invasion.

1:20:15 Speaker 5: What that entails is at some point when mankind is at its lowest. And this is what I always believed.

1:20:21 Speaker 1: I thought.

1:20:22 Speaker 5: I thought it'd be the grid going out, some good nuclear holocaust, the disaster, the aliens. We're gonna so called aliens, We're gonna come save our bacon. When mankind was at its lowest it couldn't help itself. They would come whatever we needed, they would supply and give us. And let me tell you, their motivation was not our welfare. But that being said that when this occurs like that, their motivation is going to come. They are truly the interdimensional beings that come across the interdimensional boundary, and they don't have the authority to be here, but in doing this, they will have it the authority.

1:21:15 Speaker 5: And believe me, when they work a few miracles with their physics on that side, no one will question.

1:21:24 Speaker 1: What they're doing.

1:21:25 Speaker 5: And their their true goal is to enslave mankind and for us to look at them as as gods, and we will, I mean, there won't be anybody.

1:21:35 Speaker 1: If you question this, your own family is going to run you in and to be re educated. Uh, and that will happen.

1:21:43 Speaker 5: And now that being said, I never could figure out a scenario where this would happen without a natural disaster or something of the sort.

1:21:55 Speaker 1: And I still have a.

1:21:56 Speaker 5: Little bit few few friends that are in the intelligence that tell me things are friends of people that are in the intelligence. Yet and behind the scenes, I will share with you that the whole drone scenario, there's three sources of drones. There's the course, the hobbyists, the people that have drones that they think it's cute right now to get out and fly these things and get you know, throw as much.

1:22:24 Speaker 4: Right they want to be involved.

1:22:25 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, out there and The second source is our own government and what they are doing by this, and the reason they can't talk about it is it's twofold thing why they can't talk about this and won't. And believe me, you know members of our Senate and Congress have been in behind the door closed meetings and they come out angry that they won't they even they are not told anything. This is beyond the need to know, and they won't share anything with these and and that the reason behind that is one reason is that they truly are looking for radiological they're doing radiological surveys right now.

1:23:09 Speaker 1: They're looking for.

1:23:11 Speaker 5: Devices that are out there, in some cases radioactive materials.

1:23:16 Speaker 1: That are out there that could make a dirty bomb.

1:23:20 Speaker 5: And actually in some instant there's some devices that have gotten into our country that they know of, and they're looking for these things, which they feel that they can't talk about this it would cause a panic. And the other third source that is coming through in this drone technology. And when you hear about these things coming across there, you know the military and police are seeing fifty sixty of these things come from out at sea, seeing running lights come on, lights come on, then look simulating aircraft and a lot of these craft.

1:23:57 Speaker 5: The third source is actually the interdimensional source. Now, I truly believe from what I'm told that there is a relationship right now with these interdimensional beings that they're helping our military because they're not having much luck right now and they feel the clock is sticking. I do believe that the interdimensional beings are working with our government trying to locate these devices because they're concerned themselves about the nuclear devices. But there's a working relationship right now with our government, which jumping ahead there, there's the scenario I had never taken into consideration that is putting us right into the false flag time.

1:24:46 Speaker 5: Here we're having a relationship with these things, and at the proper time, if they work with our government and they help find these devices, it'll be the absolute perfect timing for the government to come forward say and say, yes, we have been at knowledge, we have let's say, craft not of this earth that we've been back engineering. And but these people are here there and believe me, they're more like us than us. Uh, they're not three headed green gray aliens. They're the gray aliens and all that they do exit they're the automatons, they're the worker bee.

1:25:25 Speaker 5: But the true aliens, so called alien the dimensional beings, are more like us than us. And when they release this information to the public and say, see what they've done, See for what they've saved us, See how.

1:25:38 Speaker 1: They be bad? Ah, that put it in a realm.

1:25:42 Speaker 5: That advanced my false flag scenario, and from what I've learned from others by leaps and bounds. So I do believe we're closer right now to the false false flag scenario coming down than I have ever dreamed of. But but we'll see how that all plays out.

1:26:03 Speaker 4: Right now, I do believe that you are what would be I mean, there's been ideas floated around, theories about why they would do such a thing. In your opinion, why would a false flag operation like this? What would be the end game to that? Why why do that?

1:26:33 Speaker 1: There? Again, I do believe, and everyone has to decide on their own.

1:26:37 Speaker 5: But with the data that I've seen and the people I've been around, which are way above my pay grade, believe me, I do believe that it is all.

1:26:47 Speaker 1: Biblical, and it is the end game.

1:26:51 Speaker 5: It is for enslaving mankind in various ways, and for us to look upon them one day as the gods that they feel they are, and they're not.

1:27:02 Speaker 1: They're not what they will pretend to be.

1:27:05 Speaker 5: And they do have the capabilities on this side to use their physics and work miracles and pull fire from the sky and whatever they want to do to enslave mankind onness end, and they'll put on a great dog and pony show for us, believe me, and no one will question this.

1:27:26 Speaker 1: But they are not aliens as they're going to be portrayed as.

1:27:30 Speaker 5: From a planet, you know, because there again interplanetary travel, and I know people get in they'll.

1:27:39 Speaker 1: Prove you a million ways. They think this is not true. But interplanetary with our physics, it's not possible.

1:27:48 Speaker 5: If they're twenty light years away, three hundred light years away, it's impossible for that race to contact us.

1:27:57 Speaker 1: But they are interdimensional and I it is all biblical.

1:28:04 Speaker 4: So what what that sounds like is mass deception, kind of anti christy if you if you look through a certain religious lens, right, if they're claiming to be God when they're not right that that that's essentially that sounds like the anti christ right is a false God.

1:28:33 Speaker 5: You put your finger right on it and you've come away where so many people won't and can't see that light. And uh, but you're exactly right that and you know, at this point I always have to say, there again, I look at the Bible is one of the greatest scientific documents from man's history that's ever been and ever you know, survived, everything has survived, and there's a reason for that. But it is a book of scientific fact and documentation. If you want to put the biblical the religious aspect of it out, that's your you know option.

1:29:16 Speaker 1: But even if you do that, you can't deny the data that's in it and the degree of accuracy it's had over the years. And it is it is in the Book of Revelation. I will tell you it wasn't.

1:29:34 Speaker 5: So many things in that had couldn't be understood till now that the realm we're in, and so much of it makes sense now. And so you know, even in Ezekield, the wheel and the reference to the bronze discs, the craft in that, it's just incredible and unbelievable the accuracy there.

1:29:56 Speaker 1: And you you, you're exactly right that correlation to the ant Christ. Uh. And they'll come and believe me, these things are gonna come. People are expecting the anti Christ or Satan to come as this fire breathing harm demon. He's going to be exactly the opposite of that. He's going to be the most benign, sweet, giving, loving person.

1:30:18 Speaker 5: He's he's trying to play the role of Christ, and he's going to be here to share love. And but believe me, you are it's not His motivation is not our welfare and this race of interdimensional beings. And you can correlate this to the fallen angels even you know, yes, yes, it's it's all one and the same. And and we really believe that so much of this, uh, and I just you know, I have.

1:30:49 Speaker 1: To go back.

1:30:49 Speaker 5: I've got friends that research Bigfoot, and I will tell you in the beginning, they'd be out and they take DNA, they take SAM and when they would do this, when they find hair, they do DNA miochondria and not their early days, not so accurate that the DNA work. But whenever they did this, they would come back and there'd be a little bit of human DNA in it, you know, or a lot. They'd say the experts to throw it out. They'd say, oh, cross contamination, it's no good. Well, then over the years. They were trained people out there.

1:31:28 Speaker 5: They knew how to take sampling, how not to contaminate it by three different methods, and it would still come back. A large part of this it had even stronger human DNA in it. Now there again the Fallen Angels, you know, the nephil the remnants of the Nephilim interdimensional and that explains the Bigfoot sightings that even the Native Americans say, the Bigfoot, you know that they actually fought, they had battles with. They said, these things were most of the woods. They could come and go through the interdimensional boundaries.

1:32:04 Speaker 1: On a whim. So you know when you're out there trying to track a Bigfoot and that you're never going to get ahead of these things. They have that capability.

1:32:13 Speaker 5: Now, if they are the remnant of the Nephilum through man breading with the fallen Angels, which I believe they are, and of course this gets into the giants, which.

1:32:23 Speaker 1: There is absolutely evidence of this physical proof. They have skeletal mass they have, you know, so it does exist and it's real, believe me, it's not stories made up in a comic book.

1:32:41 Speaker 5: It is all real and biblical. And there again the Bible speaks of this and it's accurate. So, but you're dealing with those intelligence and the spiritual realm that is there.

1:32:54 Speaker 1: And truly it truly comes from them, from the source life.

1:33:01 Speaker 4: And and you know, it's a lot of people when they do or or like if they see uh. There's been many accounts where bigfoot have been seen and then you know a UFO moments later, and you know, you start, you know, you never want to draw too many conclusions, but again, what's what's going on there? What?

1:33:33 Speaker 6: What?

1:33:33 Speaker 1: What are the what? Why?

1:33:35 Speaker 4: Why are they seen together? Why?

1:33:38 Speaker 2: Why?

1:33:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, it just there's so many more questions the further you start digging. And that's why I think a lot of people get frustrated with this topic, is you come up with so many more questions than you do answers. But the it's the questions that you do come.

1:33:54 Speaker 1: Up with.

1:33:56 Speaker 4: There they they have challenged myself to look beyond the black and white quote unquote uh world that that we're taught that we live in. And and now I'm able to see, you know that there's a lot more gray. So I think once we open up to these ideas, you know that we're not alone, that we're you know that we've probably never been alone, and that these beings, you know, whether it's the God of the Bible, the Nephelins, or all this stuff is based in some sort of reality, and I think that will be that that itself will be hard for people to to grapple with that the Bible is is factual, if you if that makes sense, right?

1:34:57 Speaker 5: And I've got friends that just can't deal with that, you know, And I lost friends in uthology, good researchers that I don't want to say they're atheists, but they lean that way, and believe me, they don't like me anymore.

1:35:12 Speaker 1: When I went into this realm, and.

1:35:13 Speaker 5: Quite frankly, where I was at one time, I wouldn't have liked me, right, I you know, I wouldn't even talk to somebody that went where I do now. But I go where like Ted taught me, you've got to go where the data leads. And that's where it's led me to believe. And I can't argue with anything I've seen in that realm, and quite frankly, it's the best explanations and the only thing I can put my finger on that makes any sense in this whole field. The spiritual realm of this and uh, but the cryptid, the spiritual euthology, it's all comes from the same source, I will tell you.

1:35:51 Speaker 1: And and some people who don't want to believe that.

1:35:54 Speaker 4: I would agree. I wholeheartedly would agree because you know, I'm in Massachusetts and I grew up next to a road that was haunted. Uh, some weird bad stuff happened there where some nuns were hanged for practicing witchcraft. So you know they were alleged to hout that road. I grew up in, like I said, Massachusetts, not so the Boston area. Obviously that leads you right to thinking about the witch trials, right, and the greed and the land grab that happened there. And also the Bridgewater Triangle is is is in Massachusetts?

1:36:39 Speaker 4: All these places have some one thing in common, mass atrocity or atrocities committed by man on the Do you think that because ghosts that's like one thing, right? So the ghosts or the app that ghostly apparitions and stuff that seems to be where I have a hard time grasping. Do you think that ghosts are are real but more of a of an echo? So I bring this up and I'll backtrack a little bit here the King Phillips War happens, and it happens all throughout the East, the New England region, Bridgewater Triangle especially so mass atrocity there, right, human killing human so and in a lot of these hot spots, Skinwalker Ranch right that the tribes we're enslaving each other.

1:37:51 Speaker 4: Another one puts a curse on this one. Do you think that the land holds some sort of memory of a like like an echo, because that's what I see in all these locations, all these hot spots. It's like the land is holding some sort of resonant frequency that allows the dimensional barrier to be fittest.

1:38:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely do, and I do believe in there's energy residual that in some instance there's some things that can be explained by that, the ability of energy to be maintained or certain conditions in that area.

1:38:33 Speaker 1: But I will tell you that even.

1:38:36 Speaker 5: Here again biblically, the explanation is, you know, for ghost and I've seen it myself, there are possession is real.

1:38:48 Speaker 1: It does happen.

1:38:49 Speaker 5: Again, not as often as what some people think, but it does happen. Now when you get into ghost in the paranormal, I will tell you there you have to be careful again because just like these things portray themselves as gray aliens or reptoids or right, you know, people that are ghost hunter's paranormal. They go into a structure looking for certain things and there again, this intelligence, let's call it, has the ability to make you to whatever you're looking for.

1:39:26 Speaker 1: It will be.

1:39:27 Speaker 5: And I did see an explanation of this on one show on TV one time with I Believe was the daughter of the original ghost Hunters. They had their own show and she went out with her partner and before they entered the house, and I picked up on this. It was I always wanted them to try this before they went in the investigation.

1:39:50 Speaker 1: She had came up with this theory on.

1:39:52 Speaker 5: Her own and it was great, she said, before we go in there, and she built this whole scenario in her mind. She said, they made up this fake accident. The whole scenario was wrong. They made up names of the individuals they were going to talk to. They made up the accident was fake. But they did this before they went into the property. They go into the property and they start experiencing things what they thought was entities, and they'd ask, are you so and so that came and of course the undity would say that, yes, they're so and so, and did you have this terrible tragic death out here, you know, in front of the building car accident I think it was, And they let them on to believe that absolutely they were involved in that car accident, but they were the ghost of these people that died out there, and they went through the whole thing show and they came out and they knew what they were experiencing, that paranormal experience were real.

1:40:52 Speaker 5: But they virtually pulled the leg of these entities in that instance that everything was fictitious. And of course he's at that instant that investigation. Uh, it came across that, you know, everything they were looking for they found virtually in that house, So.

1:41:14 Speaker 1: You do have that and uh, it was an ingenious way to prove this.

1:41:20 Speaker 5: And I just wish they had to maintain that line of thought on further investigations, but they actually they kind of forgot about that then later on. But but it did prove a great point that these things have so many people, the Native Americans and so many people have.

1:41:40 Speaker 1: Terminus the tricksters, you know, Uh, and that's truly what they are.

1:41:45 Speaker 5: They are the tricksters, they will be whatever you're looking for at any time in any way.

1:41:51 Speaker 1: They had that capability, so.

1:41:55 Speaker 4: That that could account for why people, you know, they see like you said, you know, if they're cold, let's say they're not. They're not from the United States, they're from China.

1:42:16 Speaker 6: There.

1:42:17 Speaker 4: You know, whatever their mythos is, you know, they're more likely to see an incarnation of that than something that would come from Christianity or you know whatever. So again, it makes sense that they would alter themselves ultimately being the same thing that trickster and you know, kind of conforming to you know what this person's uh preconceived notions are about it right to lean into that, right.

1:42:56 Speaker 6: And you know.

1:42:59 Speaker 1: It goes Little Father in my own mind, uh.

1:43:05 Speaker 5: In some of these paranormal events, you know, you always come across and a lot of times there'll be children involved in it, and you know, children will die a tragic death. And I in my own mind and biblically, one of the most precious things, that innocence that a child has is one of the things that's guarded the most and the most profound. Worst thing you can ever do is hurt a child or that innocent and you get into these cases, whether it be traumatic death of children and a fire or murder, and the people going in investigating us in the paranormal, the ghost hunt, they'll come across they'll have what they believe as children.

1:43:51 Speaker 5: They're they're lost, they're trapped in these homes. These children, you know, when they died, they couldn't leave because of traumatic death. And you know, my own mind, I truly believe if a supreme being would leave children's souls trapped in a building like that for eternity, I wouldn't even want to know that supreme being, you know, I wouldn't even deal with that kind of mentality.

1:44:20 Speaker 1: And I know that's not true.

1:44:22 Speaker 5: Once you depart these and you know, here again, we're in a dimensional interdimensionals, we're interdimensional beings ourselves.

1:44:31 Speaker 1: When we leave this show, we're in the other dimension.

1:44:35 Speaker 4: I'm glad you said it, because if we're if if some of the stuff that's being said in the UFO community is true, right, like soul contracts or whatever, that I'm sorry, that doesn't leave room for ghosts. That means we go, we don't stay.

1:44:54 Speaker 5: That would You're exactly right, And Biblically it says you know, when we depart this clay pot, we're back where we come from. Our spirit is in that other side, the other dimension, and we're not meant to come back here.

1:45:11 Speaker 1: So I do believe in.

1:45:14 Speaker 5: Rare instance that our mentality is given the capability to share things in touch.

1:45:20 Speaker 1: Upon our loved ones in some instance.

1:45:23 Speaker 5: And but that's very rare, And it's not like it's trapped here for eternity on earth, and it's it's just the minute we leave this shell, we're back where it came from and we're not trapped. And that's why, especially what children is involved, that bothers me so much.

1:45:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, these children are not trapped for eternity, and they try and because they show them a light, they try to get them to get out of I just can't believe that the spirits of these little ones are you know, they're gone, like you said, the minute they die and they leave that traumatic death, they're in a in a world, they're in a presence of an ever loving God.

1:46:05 Speaker 6: That and being that.

1:46:09 Speaker 5: It's where they should be and they wouldn't be kept in I mean hell.

1:46:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I'm sorry again, sorry, we have a little bit of a delay. I'm not I'm not trying. I don't try to cut them off, but well, no, people in the comments, Tom, they ridicule me, and it's and it's sometimes it really is the lag when the virtual I never mean to interrupt somebody. I agree with you so much in this, in this because okay, so we look at this from and I want to really flesh this out because it always bothered me, this whole notion of of if we're going to look at it the way that we're looking at it, which seems to be the most in my mind, the most it it explains the most right because the extra transferal hypothesis it leaves it doesn't explain everything.

1:47:14 Speaker 4: It leaves so much room for error. It doesn't truly make sense that the distances are too far. I don't I don't think there's not life on other planets. I just don't think we can get there the same reason they can't get here. But interdimensional that's a whole different story.

1:47:32 Speaker 1: That.

1:47:35 Speaker 4: And then, like you said, our bodies right are shells. They contain our essence. And when we leave this world, we go back to the you know, the source God, if you know. I know some people don't like to call it that, but you know, we'll call it the source for this case. So many people talk about this in the UFO community and then then they start talking about ghosts and stuff, and I'm like, wait a second, doesn't add up because if we if we sign a like say we sign a soul contract before we come here, well then we're not gonna like it's you see what I'm saying.

1:48:20 Speaker 4: It just it never added up, the ghostly part. So what I've always thought ghosts might be is either an echo or again it's that trickster element.

1:48:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely is.

1:48:37 Speaker 5: And you know, and like I said, there again, I I know so many people, and like I said, you know, I was a tricky It broke my heart when I was showed how the physics the math just doesn't work for interplanetary travel much less even even I've had it.

1:48:55 Speaker 1: Explain where interplanetary communication. Yes, that's why impossible.

1:49:02 Speaker 5: Uh if we did pick up something that rate, that culture would be long gone by the time we picked up their message.

1:49:09 Speaker 1: And uh so it just doesn't make its not practical. We'll never attain light speed, which other people will say we will, but uh, you know, I don't let me approved it.

1:49:22 Speaker 5: And uh, but and there again, if we did attain light speed, that wouldn't be enough because it's an expanding universe, and like they said, some of the universe is traveling.

1:49:32 Speaker 1: At almost the speed of light itself. So how are you going to catch up with it?

1:49:36 Speaker 4: You're never it will never happen. I don't think that we're supposed to go faster than the speed of light. No, I don't think it's. Like I said, I'm with you. I don't think it is actually possible. And people don't realize. But if you're moving at the speed of light, let's say for some reason you were able to do it, you hit a tiny, tiny miliscopic piece of space debris boom, your craft is destroyed, obliterated.

1:50:16 Speaker 5: Absolutely, and then you're not even addressing like if you would come upon where your your goal is, your destination, you have to decelerate, and the amount of energy, the amount of energy to do that exceeds what you you.

1:50:32 Speaker 4: Know, Yeah, it's ludicrous. I believe I've never I've actually never thought about that aspect of it, that you'd have to slow down.

1:50:48 Speaker 1: And I'm not smart enough. I'm not smart enough with these concepts. This is stuff that I learned. I was schooled by these guys astrophysicist and they are physicists I met, and believe me, I'm not going to argue with them.

1:51:03 Speaker 5: And I mean this broke my heart when I was a lot younger than I am now because I wanted Star Trek. I mean I wanted I was waiting for the yeah, the starships and all that. And when I learned the math and the physics, just say no, and you can't argue with that.

1:51:22 Speaker 4: Nope, nope. Uh So, now let me ask you, this

1:51:33 Speaker 4: interdimensional travel would lend credence to the multi world theory. Maybe, I don't know, maybe because dimensionality could be completely different than we could even wrap our mind around. But what do you think about the many worlds theory like the infinite Earth's because that intrigues me. I don't know. Again, I think it's an oversimplification, But what's your take on that? That thatspep it.

1:52:15 Speaker 5: I absolutely believe you know, in my mind, the more that you prove of creation, it means a greater creator. I absolutely believe on that other side of the dimension, we're not meant to be on anything and everything is.

1:52:31 Speaker 1: Possible, and I mean absolutely anything. Uh there are no boundaries because you're dealing in that realm. And that's why we're not meant.

1:52:39 Speaker 5: We were put here in control of this side and given the authority, and we were not meant like call it the prime directive, whatever will you will, Wed were meant not to have interference in our development, which there again the call me t call him fallen angels have done. And so we've come across technologies we truly weren't ready for our times. And but you know, it gets into again the physics of it all.

1:53:14 Speaker 1: And I just believe that.

1:53:17 Speaker 4: And you know I.

1:53:20 Speaker 5: Had people and here again, had I not been exposed to people like Ted Phillips, who actually with Alan Heinik, one time Ted was exposed to now I'm not going to say reverse engineering, but actually one craft, call him the sport model, whatever you want. One time when Ted thought that Alan was holding back material from Alan took him on a certain Air Force base one weekend and set Ted in one place between two hangars, and Ted was there and.

1:53:56 Speaker 1: Out he's seen.

1:53:57 Speaker 5: Came a twenty foot disc, motionless, noiseless, came out, hovered, no noise, no sign, and propulsion and left and Alan came back and actually put his hand on Ted's shoulder and said, have you've seen enough?

1:54:15 Speaker 1: Ted? And then Alan took him in actually showed him some crash debris. So Ted, I mean, and I believe he's one individual I know that had experienced it, and I believe it would that that's what happened. So I do believe that, and it happens. And people ask me, well, why don't we have a fleet of these things around?

1:54:41 Speaker 5: And the way I had to explained to me by Ted and another gentleman named Ray Stanford, which I don't know if you ever heard of that name, but if you haven't, I've looked that up. He worked with the government on back engineering that wrote a book called the Secral Saucer and the Pentagon Clause It.

1:55:02 Speaker 1: So he did back engineering and I met him, and I will tell you that the reason we don't have a fleet of these things around we try to back engineer them and replicate we do have a few, two or three of these that are intact that work we have possession of.

1:55:20 Speaker 5: But the reason we don't make a fleet of these things and have a bunch of them is that there's three key elements in them, and one particular element is like ten times heavier than gold wed and it's like one hundredfold better than our best superconductor here that can do anti gravitational propulsion, you know, without cryogenics because of the nature of the material. And unfortunately people say, well, why don't we have that, Well, three of these elements, one in particular, aren't on this side of the dimension.

1:55:54 Speaker 1: It's on that side. So when I had that explained to me that, in my mind, that.

1:56:01 Speaker 5: Totally explains why we don't have this technology to a larger degree. So, and there have been attempts to go around that, but unsuccessful, mostly because of the requirements again of energy involved. So if we ain't got it here, we can't use it.

1:56:22 Speaker 4: Makes sense right? Uh So okay, and so one of the last things that we probably have time for, uh, I want to talk to you about you brought you It's ironic that you just brought it up. The case of Sakoro. Obviously this was a case that changed Jay Allen heydek Uh fundamentally. I believe it changed his view from a from from a skeptic to you know, a true believer that that something happened. But you also had mentioned Ted Phillips and you know way uh physical traits, three pod extensions. Are you talking about Sacoro?

1:57:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one of the key one of the plays. You know, Ted was involved in that, and Ray Stanford was involved there. Ted was with Ray and Allan there and of course they got to interview Lonnie Za Morris and the whole thing. And and actually I was so privileged. Years later Ted took on one we were on the speaking engagement uh at ASTech New Mexico on the crash site there, and we had Stan Freeman there with us. But on we went actually Ted revisited with us Secorol and actually they laid a stone ring around one of the landing pot indentations there and Ted actually found that ring and showed us that.

1:58:02 Speaker 5: And it was so incredible to be there with Ted, somebody that was actually there in the initial investigation. I was so thankful for that moment. And but and Ray Stanford I got to meet and spent time with him in Maryland.

1:58:17 Speaker 1: Uh. He's an amazing man that did back engineering and uh, but uh that was yeah, that was the case. That was that didn't more. I'd say to convince.

1:58:30 Speaker 4: People, well, so can you can you tell people the story for people who don't know well so, so I think most people, most of my listeners will know the case. But do you know it well enough to tell it?

1:58:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just give a quick synopsis. You know that that Lonnie's Morris was a patrol in there and he was going after a speeder and he got off on the county road.

1:59:03 Speaker 5: And it's so weird when you're there now. At the time, it was out in the country. There was nothing around, and when you get there now there are a few homes built in that area, and a believe there's a sub station there and some other structure there now. But when he went out there chasing, he pulled up on a ridge to try to get a better view, and he sees his craft come down and land, and.

1:59:28 Speaker 1: Actually he viewed a in two individuals. Some say it said three, some say two. It said two, but I believe there was two.

1:59:36 Speaker 5: And he's seen them walking around and they had like white sort of like a spacesuit or coveralls on, and smaller figures were out there and they actually he made some noises and they responded to him, and actually it got in the craft then and took off and left, and he actually called and he was so wised to do this at the time, and we were actually there shortly before. Of course Lonnie had he had moved away from the area and Ted was trying to get him to come back, but he was sick and he later died, but which would have been great to have him there again to talk to.

2:00:17 Speaker 5: But his account was and he experienced it. He called the state patrol in and thank god he did, because the state patrolmans got there, they examined it, deck documented everything he did. And there were other I will tell you there were other branches of the government that were there, the DoD and others that tried to cover this up at the time. But because he had the state patrol there and they had take took photos and documentation, and he called in Alan. Of course Ted other people got there and so it couldn't be covered up this time, and that's one of the main reasons that But that's basically the basic story that went on there, and of course AID tried to They tried to use the excuse and Naser was experimenting in the area with the first one of the simple Moonlanders, and that that's what the officer had seen land There was a practice moonlander.

2:01:14 Speaker 5: And it wasn't because the noise that they made in the dust, the debris that that they made would have and he would have seen this and not he would have The man was a smart man.

2:01:26 Speaker 1: He would have figured out what was going on.

2:01:29 Speaker 2: Right.

2:01:29 Speaker 4: He's he's a he's a trained and credible observer. He he peels away from a high speeder who's he's chasing.

2:01:44 Speaker 1: So he not only.

2:01:45 Speaker 4: Deems this worthy of letting this guy go, but coming off because he thought someone was in real trouble and then observed what he observes this thing. It's off silently and you're right. He calls him the state patrol, which is one of the smartest moves he made. But you're right, the boot lander just that none of it made sense. And heinich, heinich really really this case changed him, right because because of the physical trace evidence.

2:02:24 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, and and you know and Lonnie's and Morris is to the day he left moved and to the day he died, he maintained the exact same account of this. His neighbor's family witnesses to him. They they maintained he virtually kept us the whole time, his whole lot and he actually went inves there again, he actually the only time he got answers, and he was really he had problems. I mean, I think he even started drinking at a point and had problems, emotional problems. But there again, I will tell you he went and seen their local priest in that area and he spent a good deal time with a local priests.

2:03:09 Speaker 4: Yeah.

2:03:09 Speaker 5: Yeah, and he did get a lot of comfort in that, and he did become he maintained a more normal life after that.

2:03:18 Speaker 1: So uh So there again faith comes into play in this.

2:03:22 Speaker 5: And but it's an incredible account and it did happen, and uh, you know, and I urge anybody too to go.

2:03:34 Speaker 1: Look up the name Ray Stanford and uh he's.

2:03:37 Speaker 5: One of the most knowledgeable and credible human beings I've ever met in my life. Also, and he ran the project Starlight for the government, the first attempt with laser uh communications and tracking of UFOs UAPs that that was ever done, the first one he ran that. So and he's been in engineering and actually had experiments again with plasma type like devices to emulate simulate what what he's seen and back in what he dealt with and uh and had great success.

2:04:15 Speaker 1: So but is he yea, is he alive or.

2:04:24 Speaker 4: Is he still with us?

2:04:27 Speaker 1: He is, he's he's getting up there really in age, and he's not a very healthy individual.

2:04:33 Speaker 4: Ah. I'd love to talk to him, you know, I.

2:04:38 Speaker 1: Will contact him. I have trouble even contacting him any more myself. Uh.

2:04:45 Speaker 5: He's got one cell phone and it's his cell phone he uses is about the two thousand era of vintage cell phone.

2:04:56 Speaker 1: A flip phone. Yeah.

2:04:58 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, So I.

2:05:01 Speaker 5: Have problems and he's not in good health right now. But the man is a self taught paleontologist. He's actually have in Washington State and Maryland. He's actually found Uh, if you find fossils that you're the first one in dinosaur remains. If you're the first one to find identify him, you have the privilege in naming them. And he's actually got three different types of dinosaur to his credit named by him.

2:05:30 Speaker 4: Wow.

2:05:32 Speaker 1: When you go as home, uh, he has you can't step on the floor without stepping on dinosaur fossils. He's a unique individual and but he's most knowledgeable. Uh.

2:05:46 Speaker 5: He has video up there that they took of a plasma type craft that they had. They had great success with his project Starlight actually tracking these things, and the government wanted a form of a warning system for these things, which they did have some success in that area, and which can you can imagine.

2:06:08 Speaker 1: What they've got now. So the idea that they that they don't know these crafts are around or where they go or.

2:06:15 Speaker 4: What they are, no, that's yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's absolute bs Because in every single every single UFO crash case,

2:06:29 Speaker 4: a witness will come upon a crash debris field if they even do, and within seconds, maybe minutes top the government is on them, right Margenia, I mean we just name it, name it, name it well, kind of post roswell. But in far too many times there there's some sort of they are watching and they know exactly what these when these craft are in our our airspace, there's no doubt in my mind they are just it's it's look you look at the Calvine photo right there's a uf UFO and then then there's a military reconnaissance plane right there.

2:07:21 Speaker 4: They know when these things are are showing up. That's when they how they know to intercept and where to intercept. So there's no doubt in my mind that they have they had some sort of the satellite network dedicated to this.

2:07:38 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, and and their technologies have advanced so far, you know that, uh and and I will tell you that that's what one of Ted's beliefs were. He when the structured craft days, you know, twenty thirty foot classic disc started evolving more in the plasma like ball which always called light balls. He didn't like the name here again before tids change of mind, he didn't like the word orb because it gave more religious connotation and he didn't like that, and he would call him light balls. But the plasma like light balls he felt were their way of having an ROV to do their work.

2:08:21 Speaker 5: That when we increased our technology, they lowered their risk factor and they would go in more the light bub type craft. ROV's plasma like craft because when they're there, they're there, and when they're gone, you're not going to get a piece of the thing if your crash, yeah it's gone.

2:08:40 Speaker 4: That makes totals you know what. That is actually a really good because a lot of the craft they're not

2:08:51 Speaker 4: they're not seen anymore like the classic UFO. Maybe aside from sometimes some people get the tic taxiting, but I'm not convinced that that's not reverse engineered. I'm not fully convinced that the ticktac is actually I think it might be some sort of ARV.

2:09:10 Speaker 1: I'll tell you my thoughts on the tictac is.

2:09:14 Speaker 5: I was taught a long time ago, if something looks too good to be true, not that there aren't true things come through, but when something looks too good to be true. And whenever the government releases anything, I always questioned it because they've always been there, and then they take they'll come out with sudden and then take three steps backwards on it, you know, and which they did in the tictack and you know, and some they said we're advanced drone technology, which you know, but.

2:09:45 Speaker 1: I don't anything that they will release on their own like that. I question, believe me, because you usually pay a price if you go down that rabbit hole.

2:09:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're not You're not wrong. You're not wrong when you say that. I I I would have to sadly agree. So, uh to where can people follow your work? I'd love to have you back on the show very soon and maybe we could talk, uh dive some more into you know, maybe some events that that that are about to happen. Who knows. But for the time being, how can people follow you on social media?

2:10:27 Speaker 1: All?

2:10:27 Speaker 4: But I'll links some description, but you know, just for your your word and plugging.

2:10:32 Speaker 5: Yeah, right now the best place to go. We had a great website, Ted phillis Marley Wood's research website, but Adam Johnson ran ran out. He did a great job, but we we let that go. We were we were working with some people that told us to drop that, and we did. We regret that, but we did. And right now I have a YouTube channel. I've got like thirty little movies on there you can watch free. You can see Jock Fila talking about his time in Marley I'm interviewing him and done getting better than that.

2:11:07 Speaker 5: And my Facebook page you can go to, and Ted Phillips Marley Woods research page. You can go there and join that in this free and anything that happens at Marley Woods we update there.

2:11:21 Speaker 1: And unfortunately we don't have a presence out there right now.

2:11:25 Speaker 5: There's not a whole lot of recent activity posted there, but you can go in there and see what has happened there Ted's work and I have old video of how Ted got started with Heinich. I've got that on my web, YouTube panel channel. So that's three ways you can get me. And we're working. I'm currently working. Of course, we're still working with Ben Hansen on trying to do Moonshaft and I'll let you know about that. And Adam Johnson has become a film producer. We actually had here again Douglas Trumbull out in Marley Woods.

2:12:06 Speaker 5: He's a friend of Ted's and Jock and of course Douglas trumble is the guy the special effects wizard for two thousand and one Space Odyssey, Close Encounters, Brainstorm and on and on, and we spent time with Douglas Trumbell out there, and Adam spent was in the film. He was a student at filming and doing that production, and he spent time working with Douglas Trumbull in his studio. And Adam went on to be a producer. He's done things for the Sci Fi Channel, and Adam's still involved with us.

2:12:44 Speaker 1: He's they're working.

2:12:45 Speaker 5: We're going to start a movie documentation on Ted Phillips life in career, Marley Woods and where Uthology has got to And Adam always said him and Douglas were working on this, and then Douglas all right, but he wants they wanted to take this We're Close Encounters left off into the real world and where you follows now, since that movie happened, so as soon as that we start on that and that ever we get that finished, I'll post that, believe me, and you can catch that.

2:13:19 Speaker 6: So well, yeah, maybe we can talk a little bit off air for a second. So don't don't just don't leave just after the music I get I got something I want to ask you. But for everyone else, yeah, I will put all those links in the description below for all your social media as well as your YouTube.

2:13:43 Speaker 4: That way people can stay up to date with what.

2:13:45 Speaker 1: Tom, what you're doing.

2:13:47 Speaker 6: Thank you for so much for being on total disclosure. You know, I hope his cheers to the first of many. And we just want to say thank you again for being a truth taker and someone who has dedicated their life to to exposing those truths to the greater public, because I again I think you know, it's a crime against humanity for it to be held against us and.

2:14:13 Speaker 4: Be hidden away and uh, mostly over greed.

2:14:17 Speaker 1: Uh and that's what it comes down to. So thank you so much. Man, Well, thank you. I really enjoyed it, and yeah, it was It's really been great. I love to share it thing, especially with an intelligence agent post like you that knows the subject matter. That makes it all the more enjoyable.

2:14:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I trust me.

2:14:37 Speaker 6: I live and breathing this stuff, man, So that's why I want to talk to you after and for everyone else.

2:14:43 Speaker 1: You know what it is.

2:14:44 Speaker 6: We got our documentary. Uh, it's self funded. We're revisiting that right now, still in the editing phases. But I signed signed on to do a second documentary, but right now that's being put on pause due to one of the executive producers being in very, very very ill health. So unfortunately that's gonna be I'll update everyone as that that turns Outever, like I said, I've been working with Bob. Bob and I went to so myself, Bob Sallas, and Steve Bassett went to the UFO hearings that just happened December thirt November thirteenth, and we met with Chairwoman Nancy Mace after Bob was able to briefer on the sixty seven Malstrum incident and Eric Burleson.

2:15:43 Speaker 4: Congressman Eric Burleson.

2:15:45 Speaker 1: Will be coming on the show.

2:15:48 Speaker 6: Probably in the next couple episodes, so that's gonna be cool.

2:15:51 Speaker 4: Chris Bledsoe is also coming on, so we have a lot, a lot going on. Everyone, Thank you so much. We'll see you next time.

2:16:03 Speaker 1: Appreicating any mabor tenterpaining YU to Representilating everywhere NAT and they can.

2:16:10 Speaker 6: Every editor

2:16:41 Speaker 2: Anta