Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson- Ancient Apocalypse- SPECIAL PRESENTATION With Joe Rogan

0:00 Speaker 1: Real good experience during my day.

0:02 Speaker 2: Joe Roggy podcast by night, all day and we're live, gentlemen, here we go again. What's happening back in the room. A pleasure to see you guys. As always, this is one of my favorite podcasts that we ever do. And this is very timely because, first of all, the big New York Times article about the possibility of a comet hitting Los Angeles, the preparations for what they would do if a comet hit Los Angeles, and the comet known as Donald Trump that's hit the United States and he's even got the hair, just the whole things.

0:39 Speaker 2: I mean, if the end of the world was coming. Boy, it's all on the wall. You know, the writing's all there. It's kind of crazy. So what's the latest and the greatest.

0:47 Speaker 1: Well, the latest and the latest and the greatest is I mean last year when we sat down with you, I think it was last November.

0:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was almost a year.

0:55 Speaker 1: Got floated in the discussion the idea that this really important comet research that's going on, which is just changing our whole view of history and prehistory.

1:04 Speaker 3: And of the future of humanity.

1:06 Speaker 1: But it would be good to make a film about this and crowdfunded. I actually mentioned that to the scientists and they said, what we really need is more funding for our research. And so they've inspired by basically by your show. They have put out a crowdfunding campaign which is linked on my website. It's the Comet Research Group and it's a big story right now.

1:28 Speaker 2: So how can people find it really quickly? It's indieg go well research.

1:33 Speaker 3: Much quicker way.

1:34 Speaker 1: Just go to my website, Oh, Grahamhancock dot com and there's a revolving banner which is the Comet Research Group.

1:40 Speaker 3: Click on that and you're in.

1:41 Speaker 2: This beautiful okay Graham Hancock dot com. And then crowdfunding for Commet Research And so what are they trying to put together?

1:50 Speaker 3: Well, they're wanting to see.

1:52 Speaker 1: The thing is these guys have actually not had any official funding. This is a group of major, highly credential scientists who for the last decade have been investigating the extraordinary story of a massive comet series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap twelve eight hundred years ago. That is the global cataclysm that wipes out a whole civilization from prehistory. So that's why it's of interest to me. They're not coming at it from that point of view. They're coming at it from rediscovering something that we've lost about ourselves.

2:24 Speaker 1: Something is really important to understand the role of cataclysms in the story of the Earth, and they need to do much more research. So they need to go back to Greenland and look for the nano diamonds in the Greenland ice cores. There's an ancient city which they're not revealing the name of which they're pretty certain was wiped out by a comet impact about four and a half thousand years ago. They want to go there and investigate that. So there's a lot of field work they need to do to drive home this hypothesis and to frankly put down the opposition, because there's been so much opposition to this idea from people with vested interest in other theories that and that's why these guys have not got funding.

3:01 Speaker 1: So the only place they're going to get funding to do this further research is from members of the general public, and that's what we're hoping that will happen. It's called the Comet Research Group. There's a banner on my site and all the links out there to their crowdfunding, to their website, which is full of masses of scientific information, and to their Facebook page as well.

3:20 Speaker 2: It is a very unusual thing, the fact that we know that comets and all sorts of various large objects have impacted the Earth. We see the craters, we know they exist, but it's so rarely discussed. It's so strange. If it wasn't for this article in the New York Times, I can't remember one of the last time and it even came up.

3:40 Speaker 4: And it's such a huge issue.

3:42 Speaker 1: It's a massive issue. It's a massive issue. Both Randal and I have really given a great deal of thought to this, and I think Randal the point is that catastrophes are the untold story of our past.

3:54 Speaker 4: We were given a little we were giving a little hint of it. February of twenty thirteen, Chaliabe, Siberia.

4:01 Speaker 2: Remember the event, Yeah, yeah, Now that was just a.

4:03 Speaker 4: Little cosmic spec came in. It was about fifty feet in diameter, which is about and it came in at a fairly low angle. It blew up nearly eighteen.

4:13 Speaker 2: Get that thing right in front of you, right in front of me like this. Yeah, if you have flatted out, it's usually easier it's just better. Yeah, all right, there we go.

4:21 Speaker 4: So it came in. I think it exploded twelve miles about twenty kilometers up in the atmosphere, but it was still enough to damage thousands of buildings and injure fifteen hundred people. Another thing about that one is if it had been slightly larger, if it had come in at a slightly steeper angle, a little bit higher velocity, you could have had thousands of fatalities rather than just injuries, and that would have been major headline news at that point. As it was, it's already forgotten. But you do remember, yes, overs we may even talk have talked about.

4:53 Speaker 4: Believe we did.

4:54 Speaker 2: We did, Yeah, I think we even showed videos of it. Well, what's fascinating is Russia has so many of those trail camp not sure dash photo cameras, that's right, because they have so much insurance fraud apparently over there, and people slam into each other all the time and they want to record it. So we're fortunate enough to have so many of those videos because of that.

5:13 Speaker 1: Which puts it on the record, whereas other otherwise it would it would not be I think people don't they don't like to talk about cataclysms and catastrophes.

5:21 Speaker 3: And actually, nor do I.

5:23 Speaker 1: Nobody wants a horrible cataclysm to occur. But this is the point, which is that the prospect of a comet or asteroid cataclysm on the Earth is actually much higher than has been told to us up till now, and something can be done about it. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. We don't have to, you know, say okay, it's all over, forget about it. Quite the contrary, This is, this is just something that would be prudent and rational for the human species to do, and amongst many other imprudent and irrational things that we focus on, instead, we should be focusing on a bit on this.

5:56 Speaker 2: Well, at least just to heighten awareness of it and also the possibility that we've been nailed a bunch of times and we've forgotten about it. And this is this is the big thing that you've been dealing with your entire career, this skepticism about past civilizations. I mean, I got into it with Michael Shermer, who's a friend of mine, who's a very famous skeptic. I got into him with it yesterday because I posted that you were going to be on and he started chirping something about civilizations twelve thousand years ago, where's the evidence.

6:27 Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, you don't even you're saying this and you don't even know about go Beckley Teppy. So I sent him go Beckley Tepping. Literally like five hours later he wrote something claiming that well, that was made by hunter gatherers. It was all just really to sort of suit his narrative, so he doesn't know that. No one knows.

6:43 Speaker 1: Nobody knows that they're so determined to keep the existing model, and when new evidence comes in which can't be explained by the existing model, they just tried to explain away the new evidence and not think maybe it's time to change our theory. You know, this is this is the unfortunate thing. But a global cataclysm, the massive event that happened twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago, the Younger Dryass impacts, which were a series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap. This accounts for why we don't have a lot of evidence, hot evidence of a twelve thousand plus year old civilization because it went down in that catastrophe.

7:19 Speaker 3: It was wiped out.

7:20 Speaker 4: I've been trying to amass the evidence. Actually that compliments what Graham is doing, and it really answers that question that Shermer brought up, And it's a legitimate question, where's the evidence? But I'm quite sure that Shermer is not really educated in the extreme events that have really taken place on this planet in the last ten to twenty thousand years and what that would do to any kind of evidence. And maybe while we have some time here today, I have brought a few things to try to convey some sense of how extreme some of these changes have been and how one would actually be quite shocked to find anything existing in the aftermath of these events.

7:59 Speaker 2: Well, Michael a brilliant guy. I don't mean to shit on him, but what is disturbing to me is that his knee jerk reaction to this without having any research at all in the subject, not knowing at all about.

8:10 Speaker 4: Go Beckley Teppe, which was discovered.

8:12 Speaker 2: In what the nineties. Yeah, I mean, so this is to me, this is something that I've looked at because of you guys in great depth. When I read your book, I was just completely enthralled with this idea of history having some sort of rise and fall and civilization having these researchs. So I've been absorbed in it for a long time. But what's fascinating to me is people that consider themselves to be skeptical or you know, or I mean, he's a skeptic professionally, sure, but many people who question anything that's outside of what they've been told.

8:43 Speaker 2: As soon as they hear any sort of a theory outside of what they've been told, the immediately call quackery of the nyting this. But it's a weird, knee jerk reaction to something, especially when you talk about asteroids that is a very real part of our past. We have a ton of evidence. I mean, there's actual craters that you can look at on Earth. The Moon, which has no atmosphere, is littered with them. And if we look at the Moon as a model for what could possibly have happened to Earth or at least you know, some of them.

9:10 Speaker 2: Obviously, with the Moon having no atmosphere, it's going to get hit a lot more than we are. But still, I mean, this is a very real situation that this solar system, you know, at least as far as we know, the only solar system, has to deal with this. But we know this is a real issue. I mean, we've seen impacts.

9:29 Speaker 4: Well, it's like you just said. On the one hand, you have Earth scientists looking at the Earth and what they're realizing is that the Earth is pock marked with scars, and each of these scars represents a tremendously powerful catastrophe that's happened in the history of the Earth. Now, that's accepted by mainstream science that major catastrophes have happened in the history of the Earth. But where this thing now is about to come full circle is the recognition that these kinds of catastrophes have also influenced the rise and fall of civilization and a lot more, a lot more extremely than has been recognized up to this point.

10:02 Speaker 4: And while geologists and earth scientists are looking at the surface of the Earth and realizing that etched into the surface of the Earth are imprinted into the surface of the Earth are hundreds of scars, of which undoubtedly are only a small percentage of the total that exist, at the same time, astronomers are looking out into nearer space and discovering that we cohabit space with a lot of stuff. It's not as empty as we thought. And just within the last six or seven weeks, we've had two close flybys.

10:29 Speaker 3: Of previously undiscovered asteroid.

10:31 Speaker 4: Of previously undiscovered asteroids.

10:33 Speaker 1: This is the point because NASA keeps saying, well, there's you know, we've counted one six hundred and fifty asteroids and none of them are going to hit the Earth in the next hundred years. Well yeah, that's true, But what about all the ones they haven't counted, which are estimated to run into hundreds of thousands, and which haven't been seen yet. And what happens is we see them roughly ten days before they've passed the Earth. That is not enough time to do anything about them. But we have time, if we're prepared to be rational and reasonable as a civilization to take care of this issue.

11:00 Speaker 2: Now, when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of near Earth objects that are flying around, what what are the things that could be done to protect Earth.

11:10 Speaker 1: You can paint it's low tech. Actually, you can paint one side of the asteroid affect its albedo so that the Sun's rays push differentially on one side rather than the other.

11:19 Speaker 3: That will shift its orbit slightly. It has to be calculated.

11:22 Speaker 1: You can give it a little knock with with with a rocket.

11:26 Speaker 3: Basically, you don't want to blow it up.

11:27 Speaker 1: You don't want to turn you know, your one big piece of artillery shell into buckshot. You don't want to do that. You want to you want to move it into a safer orbit. You can mount jets on it. People are looking now to mining asteroids. Of course, our society always goes, our civilization always goes for the where the where the money is to be made. But if we can mine asteroids, we can move asteroids, and the technology is there.

11:50 Speaker 4: And ironically, the most dangerous asteroids are going to be the ones that are the closest to the Earth, which are the most accessible. And the asteroids pretty much have have unbelievable amounts of resources on them. I mean pretty much everything that is being mined on the Earth can be found in asteroids, from the hydrocarbons to precious metals, to all of these things. And we're not that far away from technologically being able to actually, you know, mount expeditions to asteroids and mine them.

12:20 Speaker 4: And that's that's the the you know, that's the solution I kind of prefer because again, these things are tremendous sources of of of of all kinds of things that would be usable to and expanding civilization, and we could feasibly within a decade or two be mining asteroids. And again, the ones that are the easiest to access are also going to be the ones that are more dangerous because they're the ones that are coming the closest to the Earth.

12:48 Speaker 1: So another point here is that there is one specific danger. There's one specific, if you like, region of the sky that really needs to be looked at, and this is this is the region of the sky. This is why I wrote Magicians of the Gods because of this discovery that there's a thing called the torrid Metia Stream, which is thirty million kilometers wide and which envelops the Solar System, and the Earth on its orbit around the Sun passes through the torrid Media Stream twice a year. Turns out, the torrid Metia.

13:19 Speaker 3: Stream is the debris of a.

13:21 Speaker 1: Giant comet that came into the inner Solar System about twenty thousand years ago. That thing was at least one hundred kilometers in diameter according to their calculations, it may have been more so. And then like other comets like Shoemaker Levy nine, which spectacularly hit Jupiter in nineteen ninety four. It began to break up into multiple fragments, and those carry on orbiting on the original path, which and as they break up more and more they degrade, and small bits and large bits break off, and it gradually fills up a kind of huge hoop of debris that the Earth is passing through twice a year.

13:54 Speaker 1: It takes us twelve days to pass through it. We do two and a half million kilometers a day on our orbital path twelve days to get through the torrid media stream. And the scientists of the Comet Research Group have made the point that a big object out of the Torrid media stream, multiple objects, as a matter of fact, was what hit the North American ice cap twelve eight hundred years ago. It looks like there was a second series of impacts eleven thousand, six hundred years ago from the same source.

14:20 Speaker 1: It looks like there were other impacts in the Bronze Age. The most recent almost definite impact out of the torrid media stream was Tunguska in Siberia back in nineteen hundred and eight. That hit on the thirtieth of June nineteen hundred and eight, and that's at the peak of the Torrid June Shower when we passed through the Tourids in June and in November. And what they're saying is we really need to focus on this tourid media stream. Their calculations are that there are hundreds and hundreds of massive objects in that tourid media stream.

14:50 Speaker 1: And you know, as a comet breaks up into bits, it becomes those bits become asteroids, and those asteroids are circling in the Torrid media stream. And I've likened it to strapping on a a blindfold and crossing an eight lane interstate twice a year and just hoping that we don't hit any heavy traffic. You know that we meet bicycles or motorcycles rather than rather than trucks, but the trucks are out there. And what the Comet Research Group scientists are saying is we need now to be in depth investigating the Torrid media stream because it appears to be the hidden hand in human civilization.

15:23 Speaker 1: It has wiped out episodes of our history in the past, and there's no reason to expect that it won't do so again unless we do something about it. Because the remnants of that original giant comet are still circling in the torrid media stream, and they are fucking dangerous.

15:39 Speaker 2: Now, how is this being received in mainstream science? I mean, is there any resistance to this, because it seems like this is all pretty straightforward and intraceable.

15:47 Speaker 3: Mostly being ignored, mostly being ignored.

15:49 Speaker 1: Why.

15:50 Speaker 3: I think that by scientists who have a.

15:52 Speaker 1: Vested interest in other ideas. First of all, there's a vested interest in not admitting that cataclysms are important at all. This goes right back to really to the nineteenth century when science began to take shape in the form that we know it now, and they wanted to separate themselves off, understandably from superstition. So I didn't want anything to do with something that sounds like the biblical flood, for example. They felt they would be contaminated by that, and they preferred to explain any cataclysmic evidence as a result of gradual processes.

16:23 Speaker 2: So you really think it's because of the reluctance to accept religion or religious ideas or to separate themselves.

16:29 Speaker 3: Now, I think that was that's where it starts. Wanted to separate themselves off from that.

16:33 Speaker 1: Now they've gone a long way from that, and many, many scientists have got a vested interest in what is called uniformitarianism or gradualism, and they don't like to hear about cataclysms having any major impact on the story of life on Earth.

16:46 Speaker 2: So is it sort of the momentum of these initial desires to escape religious influence that have sort of led them down this path.

16:53 Speaker 3: Yes.

16:53 Speaker 1: And then there are others who have a vested interest in current accounts of global warming, and there's others who have a vested interest in extinctions taking place now. They want to say that our ancestors were responsible for the extinction of all the mammoths and masto dons and so on and so forth, whereas the Comet Research Group scientists are saying, no, those huge megafauna of North America were wiped out as a result of the massive series of impacts on the North American ice cup.

17:17 Speaker 2: I'm reading a book right now by Dan Flores, a really interesting book called Coyote America. He's a wildlife historian, and he is really an expert on all the different forms of wildlife in North America, where they originated, where they migrated to. And one of the more fascinating things about it is he's talking about all these animals that went extinct, you know, ten thousand plus years ago, this mass extinction event, and never once does he bring up cataclysms. And there's all these different different ideas, and one of the big ones being that human beings with adele adults, which is like really a very weird sort of a spear throwing device wiped out the wooly mammoths and all these other animals.

17:54 Speaker 2: And to me it seems little posture.

17:55 Speaker 3: It's a lot lunatic idea.

17:57 Speaker 1: Also, if you have any contact with hunter gatherers today, you find the hunter gatherer peoples don't overkill their game. They hunt them respectfully, They take what they need, and they leave the rest because it's a renewable resource for them. So I don't think hunter gatherers wiped out the mammoths in North America.

18:12 Speaker 3: The evidence is compelling.

18:13 Speaker 2: It was the comment, well, the evidence that you brought up when you were here the first time, when you showed the images of all those mammoths that had been literally knocked over with broken legs from the impact of something, and mass burial grounds like these mass you know, not burial grounds obviously, but mass casualties mortality sites mortality. So it's good putting it.

18:36 Speaker 4: That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. In fact, Graham, I visited one up in South Dakota called Hot Springs, where there's just several dozen nobody knows how many are actually there, but there's at least several dozen two species William mammothson Columbian mammoths that have been entombed. And while we were there, I, interestingly, you know, the guide, the woman giving us the tour there was kind of giving the a gradualist explanation. Well, over long periods of time, these mammoths wandered into a sinkhole and were too dumb to get out, and so they became entombed.

19:09 Speaker 4: And I asked the question, well, what studies have been done on the sedimentary matrix in which their remains are being found, Because as I'm looking at this sedimentary matrix, I'm seeing a massive deposit that in other words, a deposit that was instantaneous, instantaneous. And when I brought that up, she actually got very irritated and oh yeah, dismissed my question. Didn't you know what, We've got it all worked out, you know, we know about that. Well, what is it. Well, you just we've got it all worked out, and then immediately went on with your narrative.

19:44 Speaker 4: But yet I had an article that was actually written by one of the original scientists that worked on the site, and he his description was, well it could have been that, but also as an alternative, and he was the term bloat and float that what you had was weally mammoths that had been caught in a flood, drowned, and their bloated carcasses floated into a depression in the landscape, and that's where they were entombed. And that makes a whole lot more sense to me than the fact that you know, individually, over several thousand years, these in these mammoths wandered into this sinkhole and then couldn't get out.

20:19 Speaker 4: But you got to bear in mind we're talking about you know, at the end of the last ice Age, one hundred and twenty roughly species of MegaFon that disappeared, which is about equivalent to the same number of megafaunal species that inhabits the Earth today.

20:32 Speaker 2: Was a short period of time, was something like sixty five percent of the North American mammals when extinct sive seventy percent. Very short period of time, right, very short.

20:40 Speaker 4: Period of time, pretty much totally coincident with that period called the Younger Dryest.

20:45 Speaker 2: And so there's nothing resembling what we're capable of doing today back then. I mean, when you look at human extinction events, human cause extinction events, what's very logical and what we're doing today with pollution and the expanse of civilization and then weapons are super sophisticated. If we wanted to, we could wipe out a lot of different species. But while we're out of the least case actually seeing is that at the end of what's called the bawling Allrod, which was the gradual warming at the end of the last ice Age that preceded the sudden catastrophic change at twelve eight hundred, was the Clovis culture that existed for three to five hundred years.

21:22 Speaker 2: I think, yes, somewhere, but they suddenly were gone right, exactly simultaneous with the mammoths. And then there are interesting studies that coming out now showing that at least continental wide, there was apparently a major human population crash exactly coincident with the megafonnal extinctions, because you had quarries that had been mined for centuries that are suddenly abandoned. You have camp sites that had been that had generations of debris and toolkits accumulating and so on, debris from the fluting of the spear points and so on, that are suddenly abandoned.

21:59 Speaker 2: Right, you know, the evidence actually suggests that the human population crashed, which would certainly imply that they would have been far less capable of wiping out all of these species of MegaFon. Also, the studies of their diet and their life ways suggest that they were very quite diverse. They were hunter gatherers, and they focused mostly on small game. They ate a lot of fish, a lot of shellfish. They gathered food.

22:24 Speaker 4: And why would they go after the biggest, most dangerous animal, you know, in the whole in the whole array.

22:33 Speaker 1: Of animals, and with an incredible efficiency hunt them to extinction in a hundred years.

22:38 Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense.

22:39 Speaker 4: No, it makes no sense. It seems pretty silly.

22:41 Speaker 2: I mean, and something.

22:42 Speaker 1: Else from that time, if I may say, Radall mentioned the Clovis culture. This is for a very long time really, until just a couple of years ago, all of the mainstream academics in the fields of archaeology and anthropology were saying there were no human beings in North America before let's say, thirteen thousand years ago, give or take five hundred years. They came across the Bearing Land Bridge. The Bearing Straight at that time was above water, sea level was lower. They entered the Americas. Then they weren't hit there before.

23:11 Speaker 1: Now, in the last two to three years, there's just been a whole raft of new scientific research, and no scientists today is prepared to defend the Clovist model anymore.

23:20 Speaker 3: It's accepted, of course, that.

23:21 Speaker 1: There've been human beings in America for fifty thousand, sixty thousand years, and there's weird genetic links, like, for example, there's a trace that connects Aboriginal Australians with North Americans they had.

23:33 Speaker 3: A common ancestor.

23:34 Speaker 1: It's a very peculiar thing that's going on. And so what happens is that actually these scientific models, which constrain and restrict research for so long, do get overthrown, and that Clovist model is being overthrown. And what the missing piece of the puzzle, I think for everybody working in this field is the cataclysm the comet what happened between twelve eight hundred and eleven thousand, six hundred years ago which changed everything?

23:57 Speaker 2: Is it a bizarre to you guys? Frustrating in any way that this is not a mainstream idea, this is this is very much French. But yet it's it's not something that we don't have any evidence.

24:09 Speaker 1: Whenever whenever I put out a book, I immediately there's this huge hostile reactions.

24:15 Speaker 4: Right with the Michael Shermer thing.

24:17 Speaker 3: Like the Michael Shermer thing.

24:18 Speaker 1: I mean, I would say Magicians of the Gods, which I published in twenty fifteen, which deals with this whole comed issue, is actually the most thoroughly documented, the most thoroughly referenced book that I've ever written. It's calm, it's measured. They actually don't read it. They just say, oh, Hancock's brought out another book. He's a pseudo scientist, that's what they always call me, or a pseudo archaeologist. And it's obviously rubbish because it disagrees with everything that we know. Well, that's the point of the heretic in society is to offer an alternative view and well documented evidence.

24:47 Speaker 1: But it seems that we're dealing with such a deeply ingrained mindset which is connected in curious ways to power structures in our society, that it's very difficult to change.

24:57 Speaker 4: It absolutely in it, like Green mentioned earlier, or there's kind of a it went from a religious motive I think in the nineteenth century and now it's more a political motive. And again the idea that every day you'll find something coming from various factions that we're destroying the Earth, and the Earth has never suffered this kind of you know, assault on it before, and you know, we're causing the sixth Great mass extinction, and we're going to cause catastrophic global warming if we pump another fifty or one hundred parts per million of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

25:33 Speaker 4: And so what that has done is like many, I won't say many, but several of the scientists now that have been in the forefront of criticizing the Younger Driest impact hypothesis are also very much involved in the global warming movement and the idea that we are now precipitating the sixth Great mass extinction. Having looked now at mass extinctions and been really an obsession of mind for about thirty years now I've looked at everything from the Cretaceous territory that the Permian Triassic, you know, right on down the line to the most recent one, which to me is really in some ways the most interesting because the most recent mass extinction that we're talking about is the one that took place while we humans were were part of the of the story.

26:20 Speaker 1: And between twelve eight hundred and eleven six hundred years ago the Younger Dryat.

26:24 Speaker 4: Yes, the Younger Dryat, which is still an unexplained climate anomaly that happened. And I mentioned this I think in previous broadcast. It's you know, what you had was you had this spasm of extreme warming followed by rapid shifting into extreme cold literally within a matter of a few years. And we're talking about climate changes that are up to fifteen degrees fahrenheit within perhaps one to five years, which utterly dwarfs anything that we've experienced in the last since the Industrial Revolution began, and we still don't really under and that's why this research is so important, because now we understand that there was something cosmic that happened.

27:06 Speaker 4: It's left its imprint in the landscape over what four continents, five continents.

27:11 Speaker 1: Y now over over fifty million square kilometers of the Earth's surface is a giant debris field of the stuff that is only produced by massive impacts. These things come in at seventy thousand miles an hour, and you know, if they have any diameter at all, they're if there are one hundred meters or more in diameter, they are going to hit the Earth really hard. They're not going to burn up in the atmosphere. And when they do, they pack a huge amount of kinetic energy, a huge amount of heat and shock, and that creates very definite chemical products, so nanodiamonds, so carbon speruels, so melt glass, that's like the trinotite that was produced in nuclear explosions.

27:53 Speaker 1: All of these when they're all found together in the same layer of soil, and when you can put a date on that layer of soil, and when it's all over the world, there's only one thing can explain them, a massive cosmic kid.

28:04 Speaker 2: I don't understand why this is controversial. I really don't. I mean, I do, I understand it because I know that once people start teaching things, and once people start doing lectures and giving speeches, they want to stick to their guns. And they want to somehow or another avoid anything that's going to contradict what they've been espousing.

28:22 Speaker 3: It's a this is a game changer. This information. It changes everything.

28:26 Speaker 1: It changes the way we've looked at our past, It changes the whole story of archaeology, and it changes the way we're going to look at the future.

28:32 Speaker 3: I think that people in.

28:34 Speaker 1: Academia are reluctant to embrace that change, and they're afraid of being called pseudoscientists because there's a whole lobby of skeptics who use this word pseudoscientist or pseudo archaeologist as an instant dismissal of other ideas. And those who are in the profession they don't want to get tard with that brush. They want to keep themselves clean.

28:53 Speaker 2: And I understand that. But you're talking about hard evidence. Yeah, you're talking about this nuclear glass, You're talking about nano diamonds, you're talking about core samples that show this massive shift when you do the ice core samples, massive shift in temperature, and you're talking about very clear evidence of impacts that we know exists. It's not like a comet's a theory. Now, it's not like it's Bigfoot or something like. You know, we're looking for the final piece of evidence it shows that common is a real thing exactly, It's real.

29:18 Speaker 3: It's total, it's totally it's totally real.

29:21 Speaker 1: But it's so difficult for those who are invested in other models to accept, and unfortunately they have the ear of the media.

29:27 Speaker 3: It's the it's there are.

29:29 Speaker 1: By the way, all the scientists in the Comic Research Group are absolutely mainstream scientists, and they have taken a lot of flak from their colleagues for even daring to investigate this area. That's why they've had no funding. They've had to fund themselves.

29:44 Speaker 2: Well, that is so crazy, because this is not a controversial thing. In my mind, should be, it should not be.

29:50 Speaker 4: This is not an airy fairy thing.

29:51 Speaker 2: We're not talking about psychics, we're not talking about UFOs. We're talking about something we know exists. Yeah, so to bury your head in the sand over something like this seems.

29:59 Speaker 3: To invested in PrePost tested interest.

30:02 Speaker 1: Right now, NASA is spending the equivalent of one attack helicopter a year on investigating the comet and asteroid danger.

30:10 Speaker 3: You know, fifty million dollars a year.

30:12 Speaker 2: That's not that much.

30:13 Speaker 3: It's peanuts. It's a tiny it's a minuscule sum.

30:16 Speaker 1: Hundreds of billions of dollars on massive sophisticated military equipment which we can use to slaughter one another in ever.

30:23 Speaker 3: More sophisticated ways.

30:25 Speaker 1: But just fifty million dollars a year on saving the Earth from a potential cataclysm that could put our civilization back into the Stone Age tomorrow.

30:33 Speaker 2: And I don't mean to keep harping on Michael Schrmer because I like Michael, but that he highlights this sort of natural inclination to poke fun at something that he has done no research on whatsoever. When I pointed out go Beckley Teppy and I sent him some articles from National Geographic, he went radio silent.

30:53 Speaker 1: I mean, he should know about it. It's astonishing the number of people without mocking it.

30:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're going to marck it, you should actually know what you're marketing.

31:01 Speaker 1: And to say that Go Beckley Teppy was created by Hunter Gather as well, I'm sorry, that's just a theory, that's not a fact. I mean, very have a sophisticated site with astronomical alignments, with hundreds and hundreds of megalithic pillars weighing up to twenty tons each, the world's first perfectly aligned north south building, which you can only do with astronomy. This is not enough to say, oh, they were just hunting gatherers. There was something extrawds.

31:25 Speaker 2: From a half a mile away. I mean there's some serious sophistication. I mean, how big were these stones?

31:31 Speaker 1: Well, the biggest one actually still in the quarry. They left it because it had a fault in it. They clearly intended to move it. Fifty tons. You're looking at twenty foot high objects. And then it's the it's the putting together of them. See here's the problem. Hunter gatherer societies are not the kinds of societies that produce large scale fixed monuments. Why because they don't generate a surplus. You can't pay for somebody to become an architect and of those times somebody to come and astronomer.

32:00 Speaker 1: You're busy hunting and gathering and that's what you do. Agriculture generates a surplus. And that is the problem at go Beckley Tepe. Because there is no background. This site just appears out of nowhere amidst what appears to be a hunter gatherer community. But what they're not considering is the possibility we're looking at a technology transfer that the survivors of a lost civilization, who already had all that knowledge, came to go Beckley Tepe and used that site as a center of initiation to teach the local hunter gatherers how to do agriculture.

32:30 Speaker 1: And that's now taken as the beginnings of civilization. I would say it is the reinvention or the remaking of civilization.

32:37 Speaker 2: So when we're looking back at sumer Any artifacts we find ancient Mesopotamia in that area Iraq, those are the people that are sort of reinventing and relearning.

32:49 Speaker 3: Well, that's sol that.

32:50 Speaker 1: Actually, when we talk of Mesopotamia, which means between two rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates, go Beckley Teppe is sitting right there in the headwaters between the Tigris and the Euphrates, and we cannot separate that from the later cultures that enter history five thousand, six thousand years ago. They're part of the lineage that descended from Gobeckley Tepe times. And what's fascinating about go Beckley Teppe is the way it doesn't fit, the way there's no background to it that you would expect to see them practicing learning architectural skills.

33:19 Speaker 1: The oldest stuff should be the worst, and as they carry on it gets better. That site ran for a thousand years, the best stuff is the oldest.

33:25 Speaker 3: A thousand years.

33:26 Speaker 1: Later, what they were producing wasn't so good. This is a real anomaly and it needs to be investigated, not mocked by skeptics, but actually explored to consider.

33:34 Speaker 3: Maybe this does rock the whole paradigm.

33:37 Speaker 2: And it's kind of ironic that in their desire to get away from the ancient myths and tails in the Bible, they've ignored those ancient myths entails which all talk about cataclysms.

33:48 Speaker 4: Well, part of our modern psychology is to imagine that we are somehow so far advanced from our predecessors that we now represent the pinnacle of civilization, and anything that preceded us has to be looked upon almost as you know, as if the workings of children. It requires a major psychological shift to admit or accept that our ancestors may have been far far more sophisticated than we had imagined in our nineteenth century models, which basically still dominate thinking today. And you know, in Graham's book, he devotes several chapters to the story of one nineteenth or twentieth century heretic, Jay Harlan Brettz, and his story to me kind of encapsulates the whole process of forcing this paradigm shift.

34:37 Speaker 4: And for years he was out there exploring this evidence that there had been this tremendous flooding in Washington State, and all of his critics were dismissive without ever even going out and looking at the evidence firsthand in the field. But what he did was he stuck to his guns for three decades and continued to amass evidence to the point where they just couldn't they couldn't dismiss it anymore. And finally a group of them went out and began to explore the landscapes for themselves. And one of the leaders, I think you talked about it in your book, James Gluley, who was sort of the leader of the skeptic faction that had set out their sole purpose was to discredit and lay this whole flood heresy to rest once and for all.

35:24 Speaker 4: But he went out in the field and they spent about eight days in the field where he's seeing this evidence for himself over and over again. And when you look at just one piece of it, you might be able to say, Okay, there's other explanations for that. But what happens is when you get multiple lines of evidence all converging, and there's no way to individually explain away each one of those things other than just saying, oh, it's all coincidence. James Gluley was honest enough so that after a week out there, they were at a place called Police Falls in southern Washington, which was one of these areas where these tremendous inland tsunamis swept across the land.

36:07 Speaker 4: And I actually just visited there about eight weeks ago. I took a group of people out there and took them to Police Faults to show them right on the spot where James Gluley was standing when he finally had his epiphany. Do you have any images of that that you brought with us? I have images, I can dig them up here, yet, I sure do. Yeah, I've got some really interesting images to show you which relates because see, this flooding stuff relates directly to the idea of the impact. And we can get into a little bit of that explaining how how these parallel lines of evidence are now converging.

36:42 Speaker 4: But the interesting thing about but Galuley was that in the descriptions of the trip, he wandered off by himself for a long time, away from the group, and was standing there looking at this massive cataract with four hundred foot cliffs and this tiny ribbon of water flowing over it in this huge canyon below it, and these big boulders, and he had seen for a whole week, had been seeing this stuff, and it finally got to the point where it was undeniable. And he walked back to the group and the words out of his mouth verbatim, were how could I have been so wrong?

37:19 Speaker 4: And he finally admitted, and that was like a turning point and now and again. Graham describes this very effectively in the book, how in a way the flooding phenomena was hijacked and then placed within this more gradualistic context, really to avoid the fact that it was something so anomalous and such a departure from our modern experience that we had to look outside of our modern experience to find an explanation. What they wanted to do was find something within our modern experience. And this is the cornerstone of the uniformitarian approach is that we look for a modern example and then we extrapolate backwards from that.

37:59 Speaker 4: And so what they did was they saw, well, in the modern term, in the modern world, we have pro glacial lakes lake that form in front of glaciers. And sometimes these pro glacial lakes might be held in by an ice dam or another glacier. These ice dams will give away and they will cause pretty catastrophic flooding. They're very common up in Iceland because you've got several volcanoes under the Icelandic ice sheets, and up there they use the term yokolops to describe these outburst floods. But here's the thing.

38:32 Speaker 4: When you look at the modern versions of it, you basically are looking at floods that are less than one thousandth of one single flow from these floods we're talking about that happened, you know, twelve and thirteen thousand years ago, one thousandth less than a thousandth less than a thousandth the peak discharging in total volume, and so and it has been admitted in several places. I've extracted the quotes saying, well, we do admit that this is amazing. Your extrapolation upwards. But never mind, yeah, you know.

39:04 Speaker 2: Was in never mind is so disturbing me.

39:06 Speaker 3: See, Harlan Breath's for thirty.

39:08 Speaker 1: Years was walking the walk in the Channel scablands, and what he saw was evidence for as he called it, a humongous flood which which actually rose and for within fell within three weeks. And he went through decades of being put aside by his colleagues, insulted, they mocked him, they laughed at him, just as the skeptics do today.

39:29 Speaker 3: But gradually the evidence began to matter and.

39:31 Speaker 1: They couldn't deny it anymore that there had been there had been flooding. And actually eventually they gave Harlan Bretz, Halon Bretz, the Penrose Medal, which is the ultimate, you know, the ultimate bestowal of geology in America.

39:43 Speaker 3: He got the accolade.

39:45 Speaker 1: And he said at that he was more than ninety years old at that time, and he said, at that time, he said, all my enemies are dead, so I have.

39:52 Speaker 3: No one left a gloat over.

39:54 Speaker 1: But the point is, in a way, there was nothing to gloat about, because what they did was they they separated him from his central idea. Instead of accepting that there had been one huge flood and that was always his view. They said, oh, there must have been seventy or eighty floods that caused all this damage. And that's that's what we are seriously challenging right now.

40:15 Speaker 2: It's so ironic in a way that the human desire for knowledge is what has led us to where we are today. We have this insatiable desire for knowledge and for innovation. But that same human desire to achieve is also what's the egos responsible for that, And the ego blocks anything that's contrary to what you've already established as fact, exactly as soon as you see something that might throw a monkey wrench into the gears of what you've been teaching and practicing your whole life. And I know that you've gone through this with Egypt, your your whole issue with the Sphinx and with doctor Shock.

40:52 Speaker 2: And John Anthony West, who was on the podcast, was with you just recently. Yeah, he's amazing.

40:56 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm going to be doing an event in New York with John Anthony West on the twenty ninth of November where it's well, it's in it again. It's linked on my website. The details are on the talks and events pages in It's in some church somewhere. But I'm going to give a presentation and then I'm going to interview John live on live on stage, first time I've ever done that.

41:13 Speaker 3: I'm kind of podcasting.

41:15 Speaker 4: In a way.

41:15 Speaker 3: He's such a character, He's an amazing.

41:17 Speaker 4: I love that dude.

41:18 Speaker 2: And Magical Egypt is I think one of the most important things that anybody could ever watch. I think that DVD series is just insane. It's so spectacular, it's so fantastic, and next to going to Egypt with that, which I haven't done, I think that's probably the second best thing.

41:32 Speaker 3: Just you bet, you bet.

41:33 Speaker 1: And John is an example of why we need heretics. This is the this is the thing you see that the science today. Yes, you're right, we have this thirst for knowledge and the human characteristic, but also we get invested in particular positions, and when people criticize those positions, we take it as an existential threat and where we get all angry.

41:50 Speaker 3: And hot and bothered about it.

41:51 Speaker 1: If we allow that to happen too much, we don't keep a place for heretics in our society, then we're never going to do anything novel.

41:58 Speaker 3: We're gradually going to.

41:58 Speaker 1: Get locked down, ossified into the existing system.

42:02 Speaker 3: We need heretics.

42:03 Speaker 1: John has been the leading heretic on ancient Egypt for decades, pointing out that we should listen to what the ancient Egyptian said that their civilization was not a development, it was a legacy. It was a legacy from the time of the gods. And that cast me back again to this whole issue of a lost civilization.

42:21 Speaker 2: Now, when go Beckley Tappy was discovered, it vindicated you in so many ways. But what are the possibilities if any of more of these sites being explored and exposed a muge? Are there are there more that people are looking at right now? Are there any that are under the radar?

42:36 Speaker 1: Just a year ago at the bottom of the Sicily Channel, at a depth of more than one hundred and twenty feet, it's been underwater for at least nine thousand years. Is a huge megalithic site. Before the discovery of Go Beckley Teppe, that site could never have been explained. The dating is absolutely definite. The seas rose and covered it at least nine thousand years ago. We don't know how long it stood there before. It was by the rising seas, but there it sits underwater, and I think underwater discoveries, and I've had a part to play in this over the years, are one of the ways forward.

43:09 Speaker 3: We need to look at those areas.

43:10 Speaker 1: Because there was a four hundred foot rise in sea level at the end of the Ice Age. You're looking at the amount of land that would be put together in say Europe and China added together. That amount of land was swallowed by those rising seas, and archaeology has largely proceeded without taking.

43:26 Speaker 3: Account of those lost lands.

43:28 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they haven't looked at all, but they're primarily in marine archaeology, interested in shipwrecks.

43:33 Speaker 2: Now, this this megalithic site. Is there images of this that we could look at?

43:37 Speaker 3: There are here right now?

43:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can probably find it, just monolith at the bottom of the Sicily Channel.

43:46 Speaker 3: Try that, Try that search on that.

43:47 Speaker 4: Pull that up, Jamie.

43:51 Speaker 1: Yeah.

43:52 Speaker 4: So what does this look like?

43:53 Speaker 2: And has this been clearly established that this actually is the work of man? Is this not some sort of a yardang or something.

43:59 Speaker 1: Of course there's dispute, right, of course, but the mainstream is not going to just accept this overnight. But again it's mainstream scientists who found it. They're absolutely certain that they're dealing with a man made site. There are holes drilled through these megaliths. One of them is very very large. There's a series of other megaliths round about. It's not a natural thing.

44:18 Speaker 2: So here we're looking at some of it right now.

44:20 Speaker 1: So there's that big megalith broken into two parts right there.

44:23 Speaker 2: Oh wow.

44:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, And this we can.

44:26 Speaker 1: Say often with archaeological sites, the problem is dating them. You know, for example, there are incredible megalithic temples all over the island of Malta not far away from this place, incredible megalithic temples, but they can't date the stone directly. They have to date organic material associated with the stone, and that can give them misleadingly young dates. In a case of a site that's been covered by sea level rise, there can be no argument nobody went down there and built that nine thousand years ago.

44:55 Speaker 3: It had to be.

44:56 Speaker 1: Built before the seas rose, and that puts a minimum age on it thousand years.

45:00 Speaker 2: What are the best images that we can look at, because right now I'm just seeing rocks. It's very difficult because I'm looking at something.

45:06 Speaker 1: And I'm afraid that's all you're going to see. Are those are the best images of it that exist? But that's in Yonaguni, that's not in that's not in the Sicily Channel.

45:17 Speaker 2: So what are the biggest pieces down there?

45:21 Speaker 4: Is it this right here?

45:22 Speaker 2: Is this what you're hearing?

45:22 Speaker 4: Yeah?

45:23 Speaker 1: That big thing, big thing there, it's been thirty feet long, I think.

45:26 Speaker 2: And is it what leads you to believe that this is man made?

45:31 Speaker 1: The scientists who worked on it, the fact that there are holes drilled through the stone, the fact that you can go to neighboring areas like Armenia and find really very ancient megalithic sites where they have exactly the same kind of holes drilled through the stones, and the holes seem to have been used for astronomical sightings. Now, this site's a mess, it's been knocked over by the sea, it's fallen down. But we're seeing the same thing, big megaliths with holes drilled through them.

45:55 Speaker 2: And you're also dealing with nine thousand plus years of erosion and barnacle growth, all.

46:00 Speaker 1: Of that, and the ocean is a difficult place to work, you know, it's not easy visibility, can be bad.

46:06 Speaker 3: You're dealing with currents. There's all kinds of all kinds of problems.

46:09 Speaker 2: Jacob's camera and this crazy little submarine bring in James camera.

46:13 Speaker 1: Well, I spent seven years scuba diving all around the world looking at this stuff, and you know, it's pretty convincing in my view.

46:19 Speaker 2: Well, it is. It does make sense that if we do know for a fact, and we do that the sea level rose dramatically at the end of the Ice Age, it makes sense that some things would be buried under the water.

46:30 Speaker 4: Well, and during the Ice Age whatever, you know, you don't have to talk about advanced civilizations or anything, but during the Ice Age, living on the coastlines and establishing your villages, communities and everything on the coastlines would have been probably one of the most benign places to get, you know, because for one thing, you're you're down to your sea. The sea level, of the presence of the seas is going to you know, smooth out the climate and so forth. So you know, you're going to have probably most cultural development during the ice is going to be close to the sea.

47:01 Speaker 4: So it's going to be underwater now, just like Graham was talking about, and so this to me is probably the future of archaeology is marine archaeology, where a lot of discoveries are going to be made. And that particular thing, I mean, there's a lot of megalithic structures around the world that if you set that thing up like this and put those sighting holes through, it would look precisely like scrape the barnacles off of it, you know. And no one's saying, oh, it's proven, But what it is is we have to keep an open mind and say, well, there are some very strong similarities here, so let's investigate this thing further.

47:38 Speaker 4: And that's the whole point of all this is all of this stuff needs more research. It doesn't need some cavalier dismissal by somebody who's you know, protecting their own paradigm. It needs more research on all fronts. I mean, because I think that there's enough evidence that is now accumulated to suggest that there is a deep history to the human species on Earth, and we're just beginning to really appreciate how much deeper it really is than the conventional models of history. And rather than just waving an arm and dismissing this.

48:11 Speaker 3: With a skeptical sneer.

48:13 Speaker 4: With a skeptical sneer. Exactly.

48:15 Speaker 2: What's interesting is that there is accepted scientific models of humanity when you're talking about supervolcanoes, right, like the supervolcano of sixty seventy thousand years ago. Yeah, I mean they pretty much accept that that wiped out of the vast majority of human beings on Earth. And why is the supervolcano hypothesis so easily accepted, But yet the asteroidal impact. I mean, both of them are real events, both of them are historically documented. In fact, we really don't We've never watched a super volcano take over the world, but we've seen asteroids hit other planets.

48:48 Speaker 2: We've actually watched Shoemaker Levy like you were talking about before.

48:52 Speaker 3: We bombarding Jupiter unbelievable.

48:54 Speaker 2: Bigger impact than the planet Earth itself.

48:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

48:58 Speaker 1: So yeah, and actually more than twenty impacts each, each one of them would have wiped out all life on Earth if that object had hit the Earth. Yeah, So you know, so it's very another thing to we were talking about underwater structures. But let's also consider the possibility, and again John Anthony West's work is important here.

49:16 Speaker 3: Let's also consider the possibility that.

49:18 Speaker 1: We have misidentified a number of structures that are standing in plain view, like the Great Sphinx Egyptology, read any egypt logical text, any encyclopedia. Actually they will tell you that thing was put there by a specific pharaoh, Pharaoh Cafre of the Fourth dynasty round about two five hundred BC. That is not a fact. That is an opinion, but it's presented as a fact. There is not a single inscription that relates the sphinx to that pharaoh, not a contemporary inscription, not one dating from twenty five hundred BC.

49:52 Speaker 3: In fact, there's nothing at all.

49:53 Speaker 1: It's just the assumption, because it's close to a pyramid, which they assume the same pharaoh built again on the absence of evidence, that the sphinx must have been built by them. But John Anthony West was the first to see that actually, when we look at the Sphinx, we're looking at a highly eroded stone object, and that erosion is very odd. And that's why he brought Professor Roberts Shock, professor of geology from Boston University, to Geezer in nineteen ninety two to look at the sphinx and say what actually caused this weathering on the Sphinx and shock immediately saw it.

50:23 Speaker 1: What caused it was exposure to a very long period of heavy, heavy, heavy rainfall, and no such rains have fallen in Egypt in the last five thousand years, but they did fall during the Younger Dryass. We had a prolonged rain out from this comet impact as that ice cap was pulverized and a massive amount of ice water was thrown up into the upper atmosphere, a prolonged rainow, which could have been the cause of the erosion on the Sphinx.

50:49 Speaker 2: Now, what has occurred new? What discoveries have been discovered in the last year, Like what is new that we can look at.

51:00 Speaker 1: That in terms of archaeology, there's not much new. Go Beckley, Tepe at the moment is in deep freeze. It's right thirty miles from the Syrian border. There's been massive unreft, unrest in shanli Ufa, which is the main town. Archaeology is very difficult for them to carry on there. It's basically just frozen where they just sort of stopped. They've just kind of stopped, you know. And in fact, there's an amazing number of these of these sites. Another site i've visited for Magicians of the Gods. Was Barbeck in the Lebanon absolutely stunning site, and again I'm convinced that that site is nuanced.

51:35 Speaker 3: It is.

51:35 Speaker 1: Yes, there is a Roman temple there, but they put that temple there because the site was sacred long before.

51:40 Speaker 3: And there's this incredible U.

51:42 Speaker 1: Shaped megalithic wall which surrounds Barbeck, which does not appear to have any connection to the Roman structure at all. Again, that's an area which is subject to tremendous unrest and difficulty, and it's difficult for archaeologists to proceed. But just in two thousand and fourteen they made a huge new discovery at Barbek of a buried block which weighs one thousand, four hundred and sixty tons, which was sitting there on the site. They've been working that site for one hundred years. They only found it in twenty fourteen.

52:16 Speaker 3: One thousand tons, four hundred and sixty Is that.

52:19 Speaker 2: Two million pounds?

52:20 Speaker 4: Is that? What that is?

52:21 Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe it was almost math is better than mine and converting it.

52:24 Speaker 2: Into one.

52:26 Speaker 4: Pounds, yeah, two thousand pounds to a ton to an imperial ton, so whatever I had add three zeros on it, doubled it and add three zeros on it.

52:36 Speaker 3: It's a horrendous amount of pounds.

52:38 Speaker 1: Put that way, there's it's the single largest block of stone ever cut and quarried in the ancient world.

52:42 Speaker 2: And they found this just in twenty fourteen.

52:43 Speaker 3: They found it in twenty fourteen.

52:45 Speaker 1: Now there's another big one right beside it, which has been in plain view for about the last hundred years. And it's astonishing to me that this one, which is just below it was covered by sediment.

52:54 Speaker 2: That they have an actual calculator, you might be going personal less. I never go anywhere without my calculum, a real calculator. Nobody has one of those. We were just talking about that yesterday.

53:06 Speaker 4: At Last Guy to carry Wow.

53:12 Speaker 2: So ba Beck was also the site of I mean, there's many amount monolists that have been discovered there and it's a really fascinating sight that most many people have sort of overlooked when you talk about ancient structures.

53:22 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I have to resist.

53:24 Speaker 1: I've got nothing against aliens, but I don't need aliens to explain these things. I think a much much leaner and more elegant explanation for these huge archaeological anomalies.

53:37 Speaker 3: Is a lost human civilization much better.

53:40 Speaker 1: That's been the case that I've been making for twenty five years. I think that the alien thing is a bit of a distraction. But of course there's aliens. Of course the universe is full of life. But the ancient archaeological sites are not good evidence for that idea. They're very Unless you massage the evidence a lot, they're not good evidence. So I think we are dealing with a lost human civilization, and that babeck twenty feet above the ground. We have three blocks of stone join so closely together that you can't get an edge of a sheet of paper between them.

54:08 Speaker 1: Each one weighs more than nine hundred tons, and they are twenty feet.

54:12 Speaker 2: Above the ground.

54:14 Speaker 1: It's a stunning achievement. It's just absolutely astonishing.

54:17 Speaker 3: How on Earth did they do that?

54:19 Speaker 2: And how does mainstream archaeology deal with that?

54:22 Speaker 3: They say, are the Romans built it all?

54:23 Speaker 2: Are the Romans?

54:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Romans did it.

54:26 Speaker 2: The Romans did do some awesome stuff.

54:27 Speaker 1: They did do some awesome stuff. They absolutely did. But this site is separate from the Roman site. It surrounds it, but it's not part of it.

54:34 Speaker 4: In my view, in terms of your question, what's happened within the last year or two. I would think that probably the most significant thing, or certainly right up there would be the comet research and the discovery. I mean, like this article I have right here, which came out in twenty fourteen, So it's not that old. A nano diamond rich layer across three continents consistent with major cosmic impact at twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago, And it's something like twenty four twenty five highly pedigreed scientists.

55:07 Speaker 1: And these are the Comic Research Group. These are the scientists from the Comic Research Group who have funded all their research themselves. They came out with another paper in twenty fifteen.

55:16 Speaker 2: Where was this published? If anybody wants to read this.

55:17 Speaker 3: That's in the Journal of Geology.

55:19 Speaker 4: Yeah.

55:19 Speaker 1: But then there's the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences host a lot of their work as well, And the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences get into trouble for hosting their work, but they feel it's important, so they keep on hosting it.

55:30 Speaker 2: This is so spectacularly confusing to me, because that's rock solid science. I mean, this is evidence. This is actually you can weigh this stuff, you can measure it, you can you could run tests on it and find out what its components are. This to me is so baffling.

55:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very baffling.

55:44 Speaker 1: They brought out another paper in twenty fifteen. I won't go into the some of the details are boring, but it's called a basic and chronological analysis, and basically what they were looking at is it They ask themselves, is it possible that this evidence, these nanodiamonds, these melt glass, that carbon's failures.

55:59 Speaker 3: Could that have been laid down gradually?

56:02 Speaker 1: And the chronological analysis that they've done absolutely answers that no, it was not laid down gradually. This whole thing unfolded in a period of about twenty four hours.

56:12 Speaker 4: WHOA one a night. Yeah. What had happened, Joe, was that for years archaeologists had recognized this black matte layer at about two dozen or more of the Clovis sites around North America, which there had been over fifty of them that had been studied. And it was see Vance Haynes who wrote an interesting paper saying that he was the one who noted that below this black matte layer, which is only two to three inches thick. In most sites, you found evidence of the Clovis culture. You found their tool kits and their spear points and so on.

56:53 Speaker 4: You found evidence of the extinct megafauna, but not above it. You would find this evidence of this cultural activity and the megafauna right up to the bottom of the of the black matt layer, but not above it. So what finally happened was in two thousand and seven Richard Firestone and Allen West and some of their colleagues, and it was just basically a small group at that point took a look at this closer look and that's when they began to discover these impact proxies, usually right at the base of the layer.

57:27 Speaker 4: And the layer itself is carbonaceous, which suggests that there had been a lot of soot deposited, which would imply widespread wildfires. Fact, there was a study off the right off the coast of California here on the Santa Rosa Islands that pretty much concluded that there was just massive wildfires that pretty much just annihilated everything. And then this was preceded by the deposition of this black matte layer. And right at the bottom of this black matte layers where you find the nano diamonds, the magnetic grains, the microspherals, the carbonaceous spherals, full of enes.

58:01 Speaker 4: You find these impact proxies and that are not all the same at all the sites. In fact, that's been one of the things that the critics have seized upon. But what they're doing is I think taking an oversimplified model, and when you look at a comet fragmentation event, you could be looking at the individual pieces could be have very different compositions. And what we were talking about earlier, the tored meteor stream, I'm not convinced at this point that it was necessarily just a single impact event.

58:29 Speaker 4: It may have been a bombardment episode that may have lasted even several decades. It may have then ceased for a while. And we were talking about this last night over dinner, that there seems to be a second spasm at eleven six hundred years ago that's also associated with a massive rise in sea level. They call there's two meltwater spikes, meltwater spike one A and meltwater spike one B. I'm quite convinced that these meltwater spikes that have been documented by marine geologists and oceanographers are correlated with these melting events of the ice sheet that I've been looking at in terms of their geomorphic consequences because some of these events, I mean, the only way I can describe some of these meltwater events is that the only modern analog to this would be a tsunami.

59:19 Speaker 4: And we've seen some pretty devastating tsunamis within the last decade or two, both in Indonesia and in Japan. And I don't know if you've ever seen any of the like the videos of these tsunamis. Anybody listening, it is definitely worthwhile to go online and look at some of these videos where you can actually see the unbelievably powerful effects of a thirty or forty or fifty foot tsunami. Right now, some of the landscapes, and I have some images we can pull up here shortly, are places in Montana, Idaho, Washington where you literally had a tsunami sweeping over the land that was over a thousand feet.

59:59 Speaker 1: Deep, and that tsunami came off the ice cap. That's not an oceanic tsunami, that's.

1:00:03 Speaker 4: Right, it's a freshwater tsunami. It's meltwater coming off this catastrophic melting of the ice sheet, and I've traced the sources of some of these meltwater. I've made two trips now into the Plateau country of British Columbia looking for the source of this melt water because in the conventional models now of this flooding that goes back to Harlan Brett's And basically what they've done is they said initially there could have been no flood because Harlan Bretts didn't provide a source for the water.

1:00:35 Speaker 4: They said, the critics said, well, you're saying that all of this evidence in the landscape is evidence of the flood, but what was the source of the flood? And he didn't have a source. So the critics then said, well, you don't have a source for the floodwater, therefore the flood didn't take place. Then, as the research evolved, you had independent evidence accumulating in western Montana by JT. Pardee who was with the Usglogical Survey, and he was investigating evidence that the mountain valleys of western Montana had been filled up with an enormous volume of water.

1:01:08 Speaker 4: And this volume of water seemed to be exactly the same time as Brett's floods. He then assumed that this was a giant lake. And because you can see and we can, I think we have some images. I think Jamie has some images, so we'll pull them up shortly. We're on the mountain side. You see the shorelines etched, you know, a thousand feet above the valley floor. And what he then decided was that, based upon an old nineteenth century interpretation by TC Chamberlain, that there had been an ice dam. He said, well, there must have been an ice dam west of here, somewhere in the Clark Fork Valley.

1:01:43 Speaker 4: A giant lake backed up, burst through the ice dam, and then this is what would have caused Harlan Brett's floods. So now the geological community is shifting because number one, the evidence is overwhelming and they can't deny it anymore. But what they're doing is looking for a gradualist or a more uniformitarian explanation. So they immediately latched onto this, Well, there was a giant pro glacial or in front of a glacial lake in western Montana. Well, you're talking about somewhere between five hundred and twenty and five hundred and fifty cubic miles of water.

1:02:18 Speaker 4: That's a lot of water right in it. Normally, when you have a large lake, you have a huge catchment basin. It is feeding lots of streams and rivers that are feeding into that lake. When you look at any of the big lakes around North America, you have the lake and then you have this big old catchment basin and all of that's feeding. In Lake Missoula, the whole lake fills almost the whole catchment basin. It's like to me, what they did was they said, Okay, we're just going to push the source of the water from here over to here, but let's not go into the question of where did the water come from that's filling these mountain valleys of western Montana.

1:02:54 Speaker 4: And this is what I spent a couple of weeks in September going up into some of these following these valleys up into British Columbia, and there's spectacular evidence. And it's almost like the American geologists stop at the forty ninth parallel and they say, well, that's the Canadians preserve up there. We'll let them. They've got their own theories, we've got ours. Interestingly, the Canadians are saying that we think that the water for these floods came from of here. But they don't like that because you see, one of the leading geologists who's saying that these floods came from Canada is John Shaw, who basically came up with this idea that drumlins, which are these inverted boa hull shaped landforms, they're found by hundreds of thousands in the regions where glaciers were, that they were formed not by the glaciers grinding over the landscape, but they were actually formed by massive subglacial flows of water.

1:03:57 Speaker 4: And his critics have all been said saying, well, here's the problem, what's the source of your water? Therefore, it wasn't water, it wasn't subglacial floods. He parallels the Harlan Bretz's story very closely. Well, here's the thing, Sean, his colleagues couldn't really come up with a plausible explanation for how you could form these massive subglacial reservoirs. In fact, what they call the Livingstone Lake event required eighty four thousand cubic kilometers of water, and eighty four thousand kilometers I can do it really quickly.

1:04:31 Speaker 4: Here can we divide that by thirty six. That's about two thousand, three hundred cubic miles of water. That's more than all of the Great Lakes combined, vastly bigger than all of the Great Lakes combined. It's probably every lake in North America combined. And he said this one event required over two thousand cubic miles of water. Well, where did that water come from? So he basically said, well, there must have been a reservoir somehow that formed his We have said it's impossible, you couldn't form that much water under the ice sheet.

1:05:05 Speaker 4: Well, what's happened now is the idea of a major cosmic impact into the ice sheet has completely obviated the need for a subglacial reservoir. Because now we have a way of instantaneously melting enormous volumes of ice.

1:05:21 Speaker 3: It's no longer a mystery where the water came from. It's fully explained.

1:05:24 Speaker 1: And this has been the missing piece of the puzzle until the Comet Research Group began to identify this evidence.

1:05:29 Speaker 2: Well, it's baffling to me that this is a source of controversy because we know that the Great Lakes were created by melting glaciers. We also know that there's vast areas of North America that are flattened by these glaciers. You know, a buddy of mine, my friend Doug, lives in Casanovia, Wisconsin, which is what's called the driftless area where the glaciers didn't go through.

1:05:48 Speaker 4: I just was there in May. It's beautiful, it's beautiful.

1:05:52 Speaker 2: It's gorgeous, rolling hills, and it's just it wasn't it wasn't crushed flat like other parts of North America were. Right, So we know, we know that those glaciers melted and they created the Great Lakes. I mean, the Great Lakes were from glaciers. We know that that's an established fact. So why is all this confusing? I just don't understand why they wouldn't just add that to it. They're just gonna accept the great the glaciers somehow or another. In the last ten thousand years, the glaciers just decided to stop smashing North America flat and melt and create these great inland oceans of fresh water.

1:06:25 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, bizarre.

1:06:26 Speaker 3: It's it's very bizarre.

1:06:27 Speaker 1: Ultimately, a lot, a lot of ideology is involved in this. There's there's there's this desire also in the modern world there's a desire not to panic the public, not to say things that are that are going to cause that are going to cause panic.

1:06:41 Speaker 3: You know, you and.

1:06:42 Speaker 2: Donald Trump being president, don't you think people are ready now?

1:06:45 Speaker 3: I think people are ready for panic.

1:06:47 Speaker 4: I think so.

1:06:48 Speaker 2: There has anybody debated you on this, either one of you on this?

1:06:51 Speaker 3: Well, you know I tried to, but not specifically on this. I tried to do a debate with Zahi Hawas, who is the guy who runs the geze of Pyramids. Yeah, total total, I mean, very crazy event.

1:07:01 Speaker 2: But there's a video of it online.

1:07:03 Speaker 3: There's a video a video of it online.

1:07:05 Speaker 4: The debate last what second.

1:07:07 Speaker 3: Something like that, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:07:09 Speaker 1: And then and then later on when when he finally agreed to come back into the room because he was so angry with me, walked out. When he finally came back into the room, he was asked a question about go Beckley Teppy. And just like your skeptic, he didn't know anything about go Beckley Teppy, or he claimed not to know about it. I mean, this is this is supposed to be the world's most famous arch egyptologist and he knew nothing about this incredible sight in a a neighboring country.

1:07:33 Speaker 3: But one point to make.

1:07:34 Speaker 1: The Randle was talking about the second event eleven thousand, six hundred years ago. We're dealing with a with an episode of cataclysm which begins twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago and ends eleven thousand, six hundred years ago, both episodes accompanied.

1:07:48 Speaker 3: By massive floods.

1:07:50 Speaker 1: And the eleven thousand, six hundred years ago date. I may have mentioned this last year. It's it's in Magicians of the Gods. What's interesting about that is that is the exact date that Plato gives us for the destruction of the lost civilization of Atlantis. Plato, that's the only source we have for Atlantis. It comes to us. Many people think it's all over the place, but it's not. Atlantis comes to us from the Greek philosopher Plato, who lived around three hundred and forty BC, and he got the story from through his family line from his ancestors Solon, who had visited Egypt in six hundred BC.

1:08:22 Speaker 1: And there Solon was told of a great civilization that had existed on Earth, that was the progenitor civilization of Egypt, but that was destroyed in a terrible cataclysm, and he asked a cataclysm involving a gigantic flood, and Atlantis was submerged beneath the waves and was never seen again. And so Solon said to the priests, when did this happen? And they said nine thousand years ago? That was in six hundred BC. So that's nine thousand, six hundred BC. That's eleven thousand, six hundred years ago.

1:08:51 Speaker 3: That's melt. What a pulse one be? How could they know?

1:08:54 Speaker 2: How could we have to start.

1:08:55 Speaker 1: Taking this stuff more seriously instead of sneering at it and skepticizing out of existence.

1:09:01 Speaker 3: We need to leave a little bit of room.

1:09:02 Speaker 1: For extraordinary ideas possibly being right. That's the main beef I have with the skeptics is that they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

1:09:09 Speaker 4: I want to add something to that. In the Timaeus, you know, Plato discusses Atlantis in two dialogues, and into Timaeus he prefaces the story of Atlantis by recounting the myth of Pheton. Now, the myth of Phaeton is a very interesting story, and basically what it is is Phaeton was the offspring of Halios, the son God who was raised didn't know who his father was. His mother kept it a secret from him, and then one day he was being taunted at school because all of his schoolmates had, you know, recounting the great deeds of their fathers and everything.

1:09:43 Speaker 4: So he went home distraught, and finally his mother said, well, actually your father is the big granddaddy of them all, Halios, the son god. So Peton decides he's going to go and find his father, and eventually does, and he goes to some you know celest Joe realm or his father is located. And the way it is with the Greek gods, they have unlimited powers, except they also have certain restrictions. For example, if a god makes a promise, he or she cannot go back on it. Right. So when Halo sees Fate and his lost son come, he's sober joyed.

1:10:20 Speaker 4: He says, I'm so happy to see you. I will grant you any boon you want. And Paton says, I want to drive the chariot of the Sun. I want to drive your chariot, and Halo says, well, I meant anything you wanted, accept that, you know. So it goes back and forth and back and forth. Finally Faeton convinces his father let me do it. His father says, look, you've got to hang onto those reins tight, because those steeds are going to pull away from you. He gets in there, the gates of the sun open. It describes in the myth you can go.

1:10:53 Speaker 4: You know, you can read Edith Hamilton or Bullfinch, or any of the great retellings of the Greek myths, and they'll describe it in there. It goes through the signs of the zodiac, and then all of a sudden it kreenes off and heads down to Earth, and then it describes this whole litany of catastrophes setting the earth on fire. And finally, the Jupiter, at the beseeching of Posiaton, who's afraid that the oceans are going to boil away, gets Zeus to mount his mount Olympus and hurl his thunderbolt, which knocks Faton from the sky, and he falls to earth in falls into the river Eridonus, which is a metaphor for the Milky Way, and his sisters, the Heliades, then weep over the death of their brother, and their tears fall to earth and cause the great flood.

1:11:42 Speaker 4: Plato then, after referencing that myth, he then says now this has the form of a myth, but what it really represents is a declination or a declining of the bodies in space orbiting around the Earth, and an eventual falling to Earth of one of those bodies, and a conflagration of all things triggered by the fall of that body.

1:12:04 Speaker 1: It's intriguing that he mentions the zodiac because the torrid media stream is so cold, because it appears to come at us from the direction of the constellation of Taurus, a zodiacal constellation.

1:12:14 Speaker 3: That's where those shooting stars, amongst which.

1:12:17 Speaker 1: Are some very large objects that have hit us in the past and can hit us again in the future.

1:12:21 Speaker 3: That's where they come from. They come from that area of the sky.

1:12:25 Speaker 4: It's actually an illusion. It appears that they're not actually coming from Taurus.

1:12:29 Speaker 3: It looks like that they come from that area of the sky.

1:12:32 Speaker 4: They come from that area of the sky. And so anybody in ancient times who was witnessing, and according to the Victor Klube and William Napier and those guys who are the British neo catastrophtess that have been doing all of this work for decades on the Torrid media shower have concluded that you know, in times past it was an extremely active shower and would have created some pretty darn impressive light shows even if it wasn't causing cat astrophees down here below. But what they've conjectured is that there might be times of multiple Tunguska like impact bombardment when you know there could because there could be thousands of objects within the Tward meteor stream on the same scale as the Tunguska object, and that if you go and you read the accounts, the eyewitness accounts over and over again, people are saying things like, well, it looked like it was being disgorged from the Sun.

1:13:26 Speaker 4: It looked like it was being borne out of the Sun. Right, it looked like a second Sun in the sky, like for a short period of time the Sun had a twin right. Well, the summertime, tards are coming from their perihelium passage around the Sun. So, like Graham was saying, they make an elliptical orbit out to Jupiter and back around the Sun in this stream. Right, Earth crosses that stream twice each year. One time late June early July we crossed. But at that point they're coming from the direction of the Sun, so their arrival to Earth is going to be very difficult to see because they're coming from the direction of the Sun right, but that's exactly where on June thirtieth a torred meteor would be coming from.

1:14:08 Speaker 4: And then also the fact that it's the perfect date for the peak of the shower and the correct place in the sky to me is pretty convincing evidence that it was most likely a remnant of that torrid stream. The other time that the Earth crosses is late October early November. In fact, we've just passed out of it within the last week basically, but it peaks interestingly coincidentally between October thirtieth and November fourth or fifth, so it's peaking right around Halloween time. In fact, they've been called the Halloween meteors.

1:14:42 Speaker 3: And there's some very interesting sometimes call them.

1:14:44 Speaker 4: The Halloween fireworks. Yeah, but there's some very interesting work done by a researcher back around the early twentieth century named Grant Halliburton who spent about fifteen years researching the connections between ancient calendars, and he concluded one thing very interesting was that a lot of these ancient calendars were being synchronized by people's observations of the rise and fall of the Pleiades, which is the shoulder of the Bull. The Pleiades comprises basically part of that constellations, Yeah, the shoulder of the Bull.

1:15:20 Speaker 4: And what he came up with was that in his research he discovered that many of these stories that were associated with us, like the slaying of the celestial bull. You know Gilgamesh and Inky do in the earliest known story they fight this celestial bull, there's many counterparts and variants of that in mythical stories. And so what he then found out though, was that in many cases that our modern Halloween actually goes back thousands of years to an ancient day of the Dead that was observed all over the Earth at the same time year, even in the Southern Hemisphere, and it usually revolved around a commemoration of the culmination of the Pleiades, which is when the Pleiades crosses the local meridian.

1:16:11 Speaker 4: In other words, it reaches the keystone of the royal arch, so to speak, up in the sky. So if you got on Halloween now and you face the south in the northern hemisphere, you will see the Pleiades right at midnight. At midnight they will be if you think of the arch of the zodiac as being a like a clock, it's right there at midnight at midnight. Right. Well, here's the interesting link is that in all of these myths, what Halliburton discovered over and over again was that the Day of the Dead ultimately went back to myths of the destruction of the world by a great flood and or fire.

1:16:50 Speaker 2: It's fascinating that it's all coming out of the constellation Taurus too, and it's the celestial bull that they're fighting in these ancient myths, and that all these cultures around the world are celebrating the Day of the Dead at this exact same time. There's amazing stud and.

1:17:04 Speaker 1: Right now our science is closing its eyes to this. I think it's fair to say, with the torrid media stream, which is a very big issue in this whole discussion, that we are dealing with a hidden hand in human history.

1:17:16 Speaker 3: It's something that is going.

1:17:17 Speaker 1: To ultimately require us to re explain almost everything that the skeptics hate it. They can't bear it because first of all, it involves cataclysms, and secondly, it involves the possibility of losing a whole civilization from the record. Really it's really interesting when you look at the dates of this cluster, this episode of bombardment between twelve eight hundred and eleven thousand, six hundred years ago. That's the period that just immediately precedes what mainstream academia think of as the very beginnings of civilization, and they've just never they maybe it's not even their fault, it's this is so recent, This science is so new that they've not had time to adapt to it.

1:17:59 Speaker 1: But if they had to it and take this into account, then suddenly, what was an extraordinary and absurd and impossible idea that there was a lost civilization twelve thousand years ago becomes a very plausible and reasonable idea, And then we start Once we take that on board, then we can start opening our eyes to archaeological anomalies like the Great Sphinx, like Barbeck, like submerged ruins like go Beckley Tepe, and begin to consider what does all this mean? Are we in fact a species with amnesia?

1:18:30 Speaker 1: Are we here forgetful of the truth about ourselves? Maybe that's why we're so fucked up, you know, because we just actually don't know.

1:18:37 Speaker 3: We've made up a story about where we came from and what we are.

1:18:40 Speaker 2: I certainly think it plays a part, and I also think that conservative skepticism is probably prudent when you're dealing with most scientifics of course, most things that come out that people are claiming. I mean, there's so many Charlatans out there and crazy people that are claiming new discoveries. But in some cases they examine these discoveries as long as they're far enough away from us or weird enough, like this new planet that they believe they have a ninety plus or sign.

1:19:06 Speaker 4: Yeah.

1:19:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're pretty sure there's something outside past the Kuiper Belt, and they think it's massive. They think it's at least four times maybe larger than the United States or then excuse me, the world.

1:19:17 Speaker 1: Down the world and got a little bit of about ten thousand years. Yeah, And that's interesting with comets, because this huge, massive object circulating in the outer Solar System through the Koiper Belt, which is a source of many of the comets that hit the Earth, is destabilizing comets from safe orbits and putting them into really dangerous orbits that.

1:19:36 Speaker 3: Come our way.

1:19:37 Speaker 2: Correctly if I'm wrong, but what is the source of all these near Earth objects? Does this have anything to do with Earth one and Earth two? Does it have anything to do with the initial impact that created the Moon? Is that because we were hit by another planet right during the formation of the Earth And this is all scientifically established. Astro scientists or astrophysicists rather and astronomers all agree that right.

1:20:00 Speaker 1: There's a lot of debris would go back to that to that time. But comets are another story because they're coming in from the far reaches of outer space.

1:20:09 Speaker 3: They're coming they're coming in from the out cloud and the koip just vast distances away. They're they're voyagers.

1:20:15 Speaker 1: They're kind of messages from the distant reaches of the cosmos who come in an unpredictable way because their orbits are destabilized by something like planet.

1:20:24 Speaker 2: Now, isn't there something called bodes law where you you can measure the mass and the orbit of a certain planet and you can accurately depict where the next planet is going to be. And doesn't that fall apart somewhere between Mars and Jupiter. That's with the asteroid belt, Yeah, which which would indicate that something was probably there well.

1:20:40 Speaker 1: In the theory of the asteroid belt, that it was an exploded planet. Of course, there's a lot of opposition to that theory too. You know, you're right, Skepticism really has an important role to play. It's it's very it's really, it's really essential that we are skeptical.

1:20:53 Speaker 2: And otherwise we'd all be found on Zachariace hitching well for the Ainochia land exactly. We would have sold our houses December twenty first, twenty twelve. We'd all be going, what the fuck now I'm homeless?

1:21:03 Speaker 5: Four years later, and I have to say, there's a skeptic called Michael Heiser who has done really an excellent job of thoroughly, you know, debunking the bogus translations of zacharaiaitch is.

1:21:14 Speaker 2: His sitching is wrong dot com.

1:21:16 Speaker 3: Sitching is wrong dot com. It's a very useful it's a very useful sight.

1:21:19 Speaker 2: So we hated him and loved him at the same time. I feel so sad. I love the idea of the aliens come down and manipulating the monkeys and making us to mine gold.

1:21:28 Speaker 4: It's a wonderful.

1:21:29 Speaker 1: Story, but unfortunately it's a work of science fiction. It's not a work effect. Damn we need I knew him. He was a fascinating man. I once drove him from Stonehenge to London. We had we had many conversations. He was a deep and serious researcher. But I think he I think he got he got carried away with his own fantasy.

1:21:46 Speaker 2: I also think that that fantasy became very lucrative, and it also became a source of identity to him. You know, I followed him pretty closely as well. I've read the Twelfth Planet, and I got really into his research. And this is in my early Potsma days. When I first started smoking pots Well, I was, I was all in. I was all in. And then as I got wiser, and then as I got I don't know, honest, maybe not wiser, just I started recognizing objectively why these these things are so attractive. The fantastical is more attractive than the practical, and.

1:22:20 Speaker 1: So something else. Again, I don't want, I don't want to put Sitchen down. And I'm here also to say that Sitchen did a lot of really good work. He was he was a clever guy, and he did a lot of very very very thorough research. I've just lost my track actually smoking too much dope.

1:22:34 Speaker 3: Where was I going?

1:22:35 Speaker 2: Well, we were talking about all the difference between the fantastical and the practical, that there's this inclination to accept things that are fun.

1:22:45 Speaker 4: You know.

1:22:46 Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say, is that when you start talking about the Ononaki, those from heaven to earth came these fantastic creatures from thank you, you've brought my memory a bureau thing.

1:22:55 Speaker 1: I remembered what I was got to say, what's intra need some part could be what was What's interesting is that the level of technology that Zachariah attributes to the Anunaki oblique Nephilim, that that level of technology is the level of technology that we had in the nineteen seventies when we.

1:23:15 Speaker 3: Were you know, NASA was doing its stuff.

1:23:17 Speaker 1: So it's NASA technology from the nineteen seventies that is projected out onto that is projected over to gram that is projected out that is projected out onto his theory of the past. Now, it seems to me very unlikely that the Nephilim or the Anunarchi would have had for four hundred thousand years, which is what he's saying. The same technology that NASA had in the nineteen seventies is much more likely that he's projecting that onto the data rather than that it's actually inherent in the data.

1:23:45 Speaker 2: There was also some interesting ideas that he had that turned out to be ideas that scientists had also proposed about preserving our atmosphere by levitating or by suspending reflective particles in our atmosphere, and that is something that the Anaki in his books, we're going to use gold for because gold has such unique properties, which is why they use gold to plate things, because you can take a little tiny piece of gold, you could plate this entire table. Golds are really spectacular, Yeah, piece of I mean there's nothing like it right absolutely.

1:24:19 Speaker 1: Now, there's a lot of really good material in sitching. But unfortunately, the translations of the texts, the translations of.

1:24:26 Speaker 3: The text are not translations of the text. They misrepresent the text. Often.

1:24:30 Speaker 1: What he did was he took a nineteenth century translation and he massaged.

1:24:33 Speaker 3: It so that it would fit his argument. And that's a pity.

1:24:37 Speaker 1: So we need skeptics and they help us to sift out the wheat from the chaff. But occasionally, what the skeptics do, with this drive to criticize anything that's not mainstream, Occasionally what they do is they let go a really good idea which deserves investigation and which the human species could benefit from. And that's my feeling is, with this amazing species we've developed all this se why are we so ready to let go of wonderful ideas well.

1:25:05 Speaker 2: It's also fascinating to me that because of what Sitchen has been sort of criticized for, people now ignore the stuff that's absolutely undeniable, like the actual stone tablets themselves, the clay tablets where you can see the depictions of the solar system. Somehow or another, these people from six thousand plus years ago had a detailed map of the Solar system with the size in like a relatively correct order in the planets in the right place. Like they somehow are another knew that Jupiter was bigger than Mars.

1:25:37 Speaker 2: They knew these things in some weird way, and we don't know why and we don't know how. Also, the cadusius representing the double helix of the DNA. That's a really fascinating concept too, that the cadusius is used for medicine and it's used to I mean, it's just he had some really interesting points, zach Raia did, So it's kind of too bad. There was some much crazy involved in that.

1:26:01 Speaker 3: I think what any of.

1:26:02 Speaker 1: Us should do when we're exploring the deep and hidden mysteries of the past is to go to a lot of different sources, go to a lot of don't just stick with the mainstream, don't just stick with the alternative, but try.

1:26:13 Speaker 3: To ty to bring it all together.

1:26:15 Speaker 1: And in a way, that's what I try to do in my books, except the skeptics still hate them.

1:26:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is so hard because it's so it's so fun to go with the crazy story. Yeah, Like the alien story is so compelling. It's so fun, very compelling story. I mean, if we found some sort of evidence of aliens, it would be so utterly spectacular, even if it was a simple alien. Like I've always said this that if we found like a jellyfish on the moon, we would freak out. But you know, there's really complex, bizarre things at the bottom of our ocean that we've never discovered. Just they're just not in the correct location for us to be excited.

1:26:50 Speaker 1: And then the other issue We're getting slightly off our flood topic here, but the other issue of of entities that the encounters with n teas anybody who smoked DMT will know that as I have, as as you have that will know that you do encounter entities in the DMT, in the DMT state, and they do communicate with us.

1:27:11 Speaker 3: And there's a lot of.

1:27:11 Speaker 1: Parallels with the ets or the aliens as they had described in modern UPHA abduction accounts.

1:27:18 Speaker 3: And Rick Strassman, have you ever had them on your show?

1:27:20 Speaker 2: You know, Rick got sick. He was supposed to be here a couple of times. We're trying to reschedule it now, but he had some pretty serious health issues and we had a date scheduled out. But I love that guy. We had a chance to sit down with him a couple of times and talk to him.

1:27:33 Speaker 3: And of course you presented DMT the state.

1:27:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's brilliant and he's so important to me because I remember when I did it, I was so confused. I mean to me, it was like the first My first DMT experience changed everything I.

1:27:47 Speaker 4: Thought about the world.

1:27:48 Speaker 2: And I immediately didn't give a shit about aliens anymore. Like it was almost instantaneous. Like before then, I was like, roswell, they've got the they got the ship man, it's in a hangar. But what I encountered doing DMT was so spectacularly the alien that the pedestrian concept of something that looks like a person but has a bigger head and large.

1:28:07 Speaker 3: Eyes and higher teche as.

1:28:09 Speaker 2: Weird and cool as it would be if it was real, it was nothing. I mean literally, not one millionth as interesting as what you absolutely can encounter when you do DMT. That's the aliens.

1:28:20 Speaker 1: That's the aliens, that utterly alien realm filled with alien intelligences who commune. And of course, again the skeptics say, oh, it's all just made up in your brain, but we don't know that. And Rick is open to the possibility that we are dealing with areas of reality that are not normally accessible to our senses and that become accessible to our senses by retuning the receiver wavelength of the brain, which is what he suggests DMT does. And I think, I think that's very plausible and at the very least those who are interested in uphols and aliens should be also investigating.

1:28:47 Speaker 3: This line of inquiry.

1:28:48 Speaker 1: Can we use changes in consciousness to understand the majestic complexity of the universe in which we live? And I think the answer is definitely yes, And many of Rick's volunteers, I paraphrase, but they came back with reports that the entities who'd encountered them said.

1:29:04 Speaker 3: We're so glad you've discovered this technology. Now we can communicate with you much more easily. You know, it's fascinating.

1:29:12 Speaker 1: So there's a technology for encountering other intelligences and against that this mechanistic, simplistic alien meme that's going around now that they're a bit like us. But they came here in higher tech. The higher tech.

1:29:25 Speaker 3: It's dull by comparison with it is.

1:29:27 Speaker 2: Dull by comparison, if you're interested in anybody. The book is amazing. It's called DMT the Spirit Molecule, and he has a new book that he's putting out about.

1:29:35 Speaker 3: DMT and the Spirit and the soul of prophecy.

1:29:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's just a really really interesting guy. But his experience that he did, experience that he did were the first, I think in many, many decades to get approved by the government.

1:29:48 Speaker 4: Correct.

1:29:49 Speaker 2: So he did everything above ground, I mean, he was above board was he did.

1:29:53 Speaker 1: And because it was government approved, his remit was that he had to find some therapeutic benefit for the and he couldn't actually but that's not the point. I'm sure actually there are therapeutic benefits, but that's not the point. The point is here is a tool for investigating the mystery of consciousness and the mysterious nature of reality. And I mean, fuck me, if we get five or six volunteers who haven't compared notes all coming back, who've met entities who said, we're so happy you found this technology, it's hard to explain that as just to reduce it to brain activity.

1:30:25 Speaker 2: Not only that, when we talk about things that are so big and are ignored by mainstream culture, this is one that's just like that. You're talking about an indogenous human chemical that not only is in us, but is in thousands of different plants, like I mean, how many different plants contain DMT.

1:30:41 Speaker 3: Huge numbers, I mean very prosaic ones like peas, And you know.

1:30:46 Speaker 4: Well there's the store.

1:30:48 Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say.

1:30:49 Speaker 3: The tree is actually illegal.

1:30:52 Speaker 2: Isn't that? But the Jerusalem the professors from the University of Jerusalem, I believe that any Shannon, Yeah, well they were talking about they believe that that's what the story of the burning bush and Moses is.

1:31:02 Speaker 1: So that is mimosa with the DMT and Syrian rue with the monoamy nooxidase inhibitor. In other words, it's it's ayahuasca, but a Middle Eastern alternative of it doing the same thing molecularly.

1:31:14 Speaker 2: And isn't it possible in some way that the idea of the burning bush was them figuring out how to dry or extract DMT and burn it. Very like, very possibly, right, because we're talking about the burning bush producing God. And it just so happens that this bush is the acacia tree, is incredibly common and super rich and DMT, and it's all over the area.

1:31:32 Speaker 4: And I should probably insert at this point that if you're at all familiar with the Masonic ritual, you'll know that the acacia plant plays a central role.

1:31:40 Speaker 2: That's right. You're one of them one percent Mason characters every now every now insider.

1:31:46 Speaker 1: Every now and then on Facebook, Randal I get accused of being a Freemason. Hancock is a Freemasons, as though it explains everything I know lots of Freemasons. I've spoken in Masonic lodges, but I'm an author and I shouldn't belong to you.

1:32:00 Speaker 2: I went to a few. I went to a wedding that my friend Duncan Trussea was performing at for these two Satanists and like two thousand and three, and to this day it was, uh one of the LaVey's, Anton LaVey or Stanton LaVey whatever is his son and his son got married. Was some young Hedonists, you know, and they call themselves Satanists. And so Duncan performed at this wedding and I went there. To this day I get fucking tweets about being a Satanist. So I can't join your little club, pal, what are your Masons?

1:32:31 Speaker 4: I need to confess here, Graham. Yes you didn't realize this, but I secretly initiated you. Oh my god, Oh you're in, so we get in. How do you really initiate somebody? Can you do that for real? No, o, scared. I sort of did, sort.

1:32:46 Speaker 2: Of, so you could get him in if you wanted to, though, right, if you know the people.

1:32:49 Speaker 4: Oh of course even you, Joe, I don't think.

1:32:52 Speaker 2: So it's not happened, bro. I met a couple of Masons. They're very cool.

1:32:56 Speaker 4: Well, most Masons don't really understand the corpus of symbolism, that's that they're sitting on top of I got to say that not to get off on the Freemasons, but simply there's a mass of symbolism and that's the whole. That's that's the thing that they're custodians of, and most of them don't have a clue what it means, but they're doing an important job by preserving this corpus of symbolism through the through the layout of the lodge, the the meaning of every component in the lodge, because it's a purely astronomical allegory.

1:33:28 Speaker 4: And then you have the Masonic carpets, and that's where you have the whole story of the comet, the flood. It's all there, the acacia plant, it's all there.

1:33:36 Speaker 2: It's all correct me from wrong, but it's it's all also an integral part of how Washington.

1:33:40 Speaker 4: DC was designed. Is that true? Yeah, to somebody, I haven't, you know, I honestly haven't studied that too.

1:33:47 Speaker 2: But what I've seen is that there's a there's a bunch of videos we could watch it where they sort of describe how the layout you know, is in some way some sort of sacred geometry.

1:33:57 Speaker 1: I know it is based on Freemasons where my involved in the construction of Washington, as they were of many great cities. The city I live in England has got, you know, major Masonic architecture.

1:34:07 Speaker 2: So is it like people like me, like my initial prejudice. I hear something like the Mason's like, oh fucking dudes in a cult, get out.

1:34:12 Speaker 4: Of here, woman alone.

1:34:13 Speaker 2: Like we we assume that all groups of people that follow anything somehow another are wacky Masons.

1:34:21 Speaker 1: In my opinion, they're largely a drinking club for men. Mainly, that's what it is, guys. But it can make special arrangements to bring women into a large For example, wife, when I've get when I've given a talk in a lodge, I've given talks in two or three lodges, been asked to do so. Then they make a special ceremony to allow my wife Santa to come in because I won't go anywhere without Santa, and so women can women can go in. But then there are more. There are others within Masonry who are pursuing deeply esoteric interests and exploring the mysteries, and you can have incredible conversations and fast.

1:34:53 Speaker 3: It's just another another.

1:34:54 Speaker 1: Group of people who who you know are doing are doing their thing it's not for me.

1:34:57 Speaker 3: I wouldn't join. I don't I would lose.

1:34:59 Speaker 1: I think if I jo Freemasonry, it would weaken me as an author. I think I'm better able to comment on these things by not being a member of any such great that's interesting.

1:35:08 Speaker 2: Why do you think that?

1:35:09 Speaker 1: Well, because I think I have to remain open to all possibilities. And if I if I commit myself to a particular line, I don't commit myself to a particular religion. I don't commit myself to a particular men's club either.

1:35:20 Speaker 3: I just which is what masonry is.

1:35:22 Speaker 1: I think if I commit that, then but then ultimately I would become a spokesperson for that, and I don't want to be that.

1:35:28 Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense considering your occupation and how important being open mind it has been to your life.

1:35:33 Speaker 3: It's vital absolutely without it, how.

1:35:36 Speaker 2: Could you have ever done Fingerprints of the guys?

1:35:38 Speaker 3: I could not.

1:35:39 Speaker 4: You would have to.

1:35:40 Speaker 2: I mean, and the thing, the initial thing where you were telling me about Ethiopia, that place where they believe that the ark of the Covenant lays, which is one of the most bizarre ideas ever.

1:35:53 Speaker 1: And that was my first book on a historical mystery was the sign and the ceiling to try.

1:35:58 Speaker 2: And when you go into it, it's so interesting. But I just I've always imagined you as a young guy forced to sort of reconcile with this bizarre piece of evidence. You've got these old men that have cataracts in their eyes, like they're around radiation sites and no one's allowed to go inside and see this thing, and they claim they have the arc of the Covenant in there, and like, what the fuck is in there?

1:36:20 Speaker 3: Was the beginning of a magic It was the beginning of a magical journey for me.

1:36:23 Speaker 2: It's been a magical journey for all your fans too, for guys like me.

1:36:26 Speaker 5: Man.

1:36:26 Speaker 2: When I read Fingerprints of the Gods, it was to me it was one of those books I just couldn't put down, and it was so mind blowing. And this is again was in the heart of my.

1:36:36 Speaker 1: Fingerprints was published in nineteen ninety five, and Magicians came out in twenty in twenty fifteen, and I would say in that time the evidence when I made the case for a lost civilization and a global cataclysm in Fingerprints of the Gods, I can't begin to account for the amount of hostility and anger and rage that I generated in the academic community, and the idea was considered to be absolutely absurd. Twenty years later, with magicians of the Gods, it's not so absurd anymore.

1:37:03 Speaker 3: The evidence is mounting.

1:37:04 Speaker 1: We have incredible evidence now for a global cataclysm in exactly the period that counts between twelve eight hundred and eleven thousand, six hundred years ago, and we have sites like go Beckley Teppe. We have a redefinition of the Sphinx. The whole area is just about to explode in the future. We're on the edge I believe of a paradigm shift, and this comet material is central to it.

1:37:25 Speaker 2: What I really appreciate about your courage is that you've also had the courage to admit when you've made mistakes. You're not You don't in any way pretend to be some sort of a bearer of secret knowledge or no one else possessed.

1:37:37 Speaker 1: And absolutely not a guru. I don't want to be anything like that. I'm a reporter, That's what I am, and I'm a reporter who's reporting on offbeat subjects, and to some extent I'm an outsider.

1:37:48 Speaker 3: It so one of the talks I.

1:37:49 Speaker 1: Do now is about being an outsider. I think there is a I think there is a place for outsiders in society.

1:37:55 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think you're an outsider. I think you're an outsider from the established mainstream idea. I just think that I am.

1:38:02 Speaker 1: We're both outsiders in that area. I'm working in different fields to get into this.

1:38:06 Speaker 2: But don't you think that these established channels that were so deeply grooved in distributing information, those things have widened so wide now where you're getting I mean, a professor could do a podcast, like he could teach a class, he could write a book, or he can do a podcast on a certain subject. And like you're aware of Dan Carlin and a hardcore history podcast. I just can't stop raving about. But what he's done is brought historical, accurate but really dramatic stories of real events that took place to millions.

1:38:39 Speaker 2: Like you know, that's just that no one's doing that like this is but it's not mainstream. Well, what's more mainstream than being number one on the iTunes podcast list, which he is all the time. What is more mainstream that he must be getting millions of downloads?

1:38:55 Speaker 1: It's part of the big changes taking place in our society. The old structures are being overthrown, being thrown away. It's a very uncomfortable time. It's a very uncertain time. It's a very exciting time because we can build out of this something amazing in the future. The Internet's had a huge part to play in it, the fact that people can communicate with one another all around the world.

1:39:12 Speaker 4: Well, since I've had a web presence in the last I was a late comer, but maybe two or two to three years ago, I've been getting contacted by I mean professionals from around the world. I've got probably a dozen major ones. I've geologists who want to know more about and interesting you said earlier about debating, You know, I'm always looking for somebody to debate about this, right, you know, because I have questions and I'm thinking maybe somebody, even somebody who would disagree with me on something, could still helped me answer some of those questions.

1:39:43 Speaker 4: Right. But I try to associate as much as possible and hang out with professionals in the field. And of course what I discover is that a lot of them are working in these things part time, almost clandestinely, without making it part of their you know, if I go on a field trip of geology into the floodlands. None of them are really working on it full time. It's all part time. You know, they're working for the government, they're working for the oil companies or you know, exploration, mineral exploration, whatever.

1:40:12 Speaker 4: They're doing this research into geological catastrophes on their own time. But recently, just last summer, I got invited to actually present some of my research to the Atlanta Geological Society, which is the largest society of professional geologists in the Southeast. So I jumped at the chance rather than you know, and so I presented hoping that I would get challenged, that somebody would say, wait a second, there's a flaw in your thinking here. Didn't happen.

1:40:42 Speaker 2: So did you make friends with some of these mainstream geologists.

1:40:46 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, I mean I've been knowing. I mean when I just took a trip for in September, spent ten days back out into floodlands, and at a geologist with me on that trip. So yeah, I'm getting you know, more and more people who are working as well. You know, I majored in geology, so I still am in touch regularly with the head of the geology department. I see her pretty much on a regular basis and have been keeping her apprized of some of my stuff, and she has offered to sponsor me. At whatever point, I think that I can pull it together as a dissertation, but we'll see how that goes.

1:41:23 Speaker 4: I mean, my objective was to learn geology, not to become a professional geologist. I wasn't interested in working for the government or working for you know, the energy industry. I had geological questions and that's why I major in geology.

1:41:36 Speaker 1: And you've walked the walk, and in my opinion, you know more about this stuff than ten fully PhD gelogist.

1:41:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, you always freaked me out. So what's what's fascinating to me about all of this is that I think what you've done has been very measured. You know, everything you back up with facts and photographs and descriptions and disclaimers. You know, when you when you say well it's it is possible, you will go down other various paths. You're not dogmatic about these ideas, but you've spent so much time going over this and I don't know if there's another if there's a commensurate guy in mainstream archaeology that has been public about it the way you have been, Because if there is, I feel like we probably would have heard about him.

1:42:19 Speaker 2: Your podcasts have been the ones that we've done. They've been seen by millions of people, They've been listened to by millions of people. I mean, the information is getting out there and.

1:42:28 Speaker 3: Making a real difference.

1:42:30 Speaker 2: You're always gonna have the guys like I think Michael Schrmer is very important. I'm not criticizing him, but that knee jerk reaction to do something to mock something or put down something that's not mainstream. Like one of his tweets he said, you know what archaeology with evidence is, and he wrote archaeology, Like, why would you even tweet that? This doesn't even make any sense? Like that's someone who's not paying attention.

1:42:51 Speaker 3: To your works.

1:42:52 Speaker 4: All you do is focus on evandence.

1:42:53 Speaker 1: I'm reminded of the Shakespeare in line methinks the lady doth protest too much?

1:42:57 Speaker 3: Why does he need to say that it's got the evidence?

1:43:00 Speaker 4: As he tweeted like.

1:43:01 Speaker 3: Fox News saying fair and balanced.

1:43:03 Speaker 2: You know he's tweeting at you with this. Meanwhile, your entire book is based on photographic evidence, and all the other various pieces of evidence. I mean your documents to be about examining all these pieces of evidence. These are not things that you've invented. These are actual, real sights that you can look at.

1:43:23 Speaker 3: I'm drawing inferences from them that they don't like. That's the thing.

1:43:26 Speaker 2: Well, Robert Shack and guys like him are so important. Guys who have the courage who's a Boston University professors, The courage to look at the stones and say this is the product of water erosion.

1:43:40 Speaker 1: Cued us to Robert Shawk, just as a career academic geologist who's taken that risk and put himself out there and followed the evidence where it leads. Another one is Danny Hillman, notawid judge in Indonesia who's been responsible for the investigation of this extraordinary site at Gunong Padang where work has been stopped since two thousand fourteen. Again, he's a highly credential geologist. He's Indonesia's leading expert in megathrust earthquakes.

1:44:06 Speaker 3: But he's been looking at archaeology bringing his geological expertise to that. So things are changing.

1:44:12 Speaker 1: We are we are finding academics who are willing to engage and willing to discuss. I got into a very interesting email correspondence with a guy called Daniel Lohman at Barbeck from the German Archaeological Institute, who's an architect and an archaeologist, and.

1:44:27 Speaker 3: He was very civil with me and he answered my questions. We went into it in depth. We had quite a long debate. That's very refreshing. That kind of thing wasn't happening twenty years ago.

1:44:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is very refreshing. Now, what about those pyramids in Bosnia? Has that been What is the deal with that? By those things?

1:44:44 Speaker 3: I've been there.

1:44:45 Speaker 1: I know Sam Asphinagic personally. Sam is the guy who's promoted the site. I like Sam very much. I must say, when I'm in his aura, I'm extremely convinced. But when I look rationally at at the so called pyramids, I don't think they're pyramids. I think they're hills. I did spend with Sam showing me around. I did spend three days in Bosnia looking at the so called Pyramid of the Sun, the Pyramid of the Moon, the Love Pyramid.

1:45:12 Speaker 3: And so on and so forth.

1:45:13 Speaker 1: I do see that a tourist industry has built up around this and it's a fabulously beautiful, intriguing site and the massive, beautiful mountainous place.

1:45:21 Speaker 3: But they are hills. They are not pyramids.

1:45:24 Speaker 1: Impression is given that there are tunnels passageways inside the pyramids.

1:45:28 Speaker 3: That's not true.

1:45:29 Speaker 1: The passageways are about two two and a half kilometers away. They're very low tech. I just don't see it. And for that reason I did not cover the Bosnian Pyramids and Magicians of the Gods. I'm not going to say they're not pyramids. I'm not going to write a book saying that they're wrong. But they didn't excite me enough to justify devoting a chapter to them. There's much more exciting and important archaeological discoveries that are being made, like go Beckley Tepe, which need more space.

1:45:56 Speaker 2: And there's some pyramid like structures or hills in China as well.

1:46:00 Speaker 1: Right, there's thousands of pyramids in China. Sian, the province of Cian is just the moment you land there from your aircraft, you're seeing pyramids everywhere. There are certainly hundreds and hundreds of them distributed across fields, vanishing off into the distance in all directions. They've been terraced and used as agriculture, but local farmers grow crops on them. I went there with Chinese archaeologists. They haven't excavated a single one, not one. Why not, they said, we don't have This was nearly ten years ago.

1:46:35 Speaker 4: I was there.

1:46:35 Speaker 1: They probably got the money now, but they said then they didn't have the money. They said, we're an old country. We don't mind if we wait two hundred years to get the grips with this. Jesus Christ and the famous tomb of the First Emperor is part of this pattern. It is also a pyramid. It has also not been excavated. The terracotta army around it has been found.

1:46:54 Speaker 2: The terra cotta army is amazing. Oh yeah, there was on display somewhere, wasn't it where you can go and see it live?

1:46:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, they did.

1:47:00 Speaker 2: I'd want to see that thing. I'd want to look at those things. What a bizarre concept. Now, these pyramids, So this one that this emperor was buried in that had the terra cotta army, was that a pyramid as well?

1:47:13 Speaker 1: It is a pyramid, it is absolutely It's a man made pyramid. The terracotta army was buried around its edges.

1:47:20 Speaker 3: Not in the pyramid.

1:47:21 Speaker 2: Itself, So the army was there to protect him, Yeah.

1:47:24 Speaker 1: To protect his soul into the afterlife. Seems to be in the seems to be the idea. And then there's a mythology that's come down that the that within the pyramid is a lake of mercury, that there are mechanical devices in there which will fire arrows at you if you go in that. There's a whole story about how how intensely protected it is, and up to this day it's not being excavated.

1:47:45 Speaker 2: That's so crazy. How could someone leave that alone?

1:47:47 Speaker 1: And you know, even major archaeological sites like Tiwanaco in Bolivia, for example, you'll find that only about two percent of the site has been excavated. I don't know how we can draw inferences about the whole site from a tiny, little fragment fraction like that, And that's the that's the problem I think with archaeology, and it's why we have to, you know, consider another way.

1:48:06 Speaker 2: We're looking at an image of the terra cotta army now in front of this pyramid, and it is spectacular now that I think about it, I don't think that was on display anywhere. I think maybe they had a couple of them.

1:48:18 Speaker 6: They brought some of them. They came to the British Museum. There were a number of museums. But it's so much bigger than I thought it was. I mean there's I mean how many, there's thousands. There's thousands of these terracotta figures.

1:48:29 Speaker 2: Absolute And this pyramid was made out.

1:48:31 Speaker 3: Of what was it?

1:48:32 Speaker 2: Stone mainly? Okay, so they just sort of shape the ground. They just dug around.

1:48:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, they brought in earth and turned it into a pyramidal mound. But it wasn't just it's not massive stone blocks.

1:48:45 Speaker 1: It's not massive stone. That's why they can grow crops on the sides of some of these pyramids.

1:48:48 Speaker 2: Wow, how weird. So they would build these giant mounds of dirt and then dig holes in them and support them.

1:48:56 Speaker 1: They probably created the interior, you know, subterranean as they building the whole thing.

1:49:01 Speaker 2: Over it and then just stacked dirt on top of it. Yeah. Wow, what a weird way to make a house.

1:49:06 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then we have to consider this with you know, with archaeological sites all around the world, is that any site may actually not be the product of just one culture, but may.

1:49:15 Speaker 3: Have been reworked and worked over and used.

1:49:17 Speaker 1: By many different cultures over this is any different periods stunning to me.

1:49:21 Speaker 2: I found out about this because of a friend of John, Anthony West, who was here with him. He showed me he lives in China, and it showed me some video of it, and I was like, how do I not know about this? I had no idea there was this many of them. Also, here's one that's exposed.

1:49:34 Speaker 1: Was this controversial ancient Pyramids of China? That one looks exposed one it looks blocky.

1:49:41 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:49:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that.

1:49:42 Speaker 2: Is another thing about China that we just don't have a clue when we think about the age and scale of things. We're so silly. We've only been around since, you know, seventeen seventy six is when the country was established. It's not really that long ago. You're dealing with China. You're dealing with literally thousands of years of civilization, all rising and falling and taking place and adapting and growing, all in this one area. But still in our eyes in a lot of ways, it's kind of behind, right, I mean they're behind environmentally, they're behind when it comes to human rights.

1:50:19 Speaker 1: Consider this the Portuguese in the late fourteen hundreds have rounded the Cape of Good Hope and they've entered the Indian Ocean in their little ships. They've entered the Indian Ocean, and they actually establish a huge empire. They go to Malaca, they go all over the place. Okay, the seas are open to them. If they had come forty years earlier, they would have encountered the Chinese treasure ships, ships that were fifty times larger than the little caravels that the Portuguese were sailing in vasia.

1:50:49 Speaker 3: And you know what the Chinese did at that time.

1:50:51 Speaker 1: They went through a period where they felt they just wanted to give gifts to people, and they put together these huge fleets carrying incredibly precious gifts silk and ceramics, and they took them all around the Indian Ocean and they just gave them to people. So off the coast of East Africa, and in East Africa you can find remains of this pottery from this episode.

1:51:10 Speaker 3: And then a Chinese emperor came along.

1:51:13 Speaker 1: And he closed the doors, burned all the boats, shut everything down, and didn't let anybody speak to China for two hundred years.

1:51:20 Speaker 2: WHOA what a dick?

1:51:23 Speaker 4: Well, he felt it was time for the Chinese culture to turn inwards. Yeah, and they were afraid that they were that their ancient culture. On one end, there might have been maybe a laudable motive in that they were concerned that the ancient culture was going to get contaminated by too much contact with them, wasn't degenerate cultures from other places, And that was a factor in.

1:51:43 Speaker 2: It, that that constant desire to maintain the current situation.

1:51:50 Speaker 3: It's human, we have to say, it's some kind of some kind of human nature.

1:51:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

1:51:54 Speaker 1: I'd love to see some of these images of the Yeah, the drone stuff from the commas, the Kammas prairie and what else.

1:52:00 Speaker 3: Please, and let's let's let's have a look at it.

1:52:02 Speaker 4: You got that.

1:52:03 Speaker 2: I'll this Chinese parents are still blowing my mind.

1:52:06 Speaker 3: They blow my mind as well.

1:52:07 Speaker 4: I just can't believe they haven't been.

1:52:09 Speaker 1: Execat It's an eerie, spooky scene. I mean, I recommend anybody to go to see just just it's incredible how many of them there are and how unexplained it all is. And it's again it feeds into my general point is we don't remember our past.

1:52:23 Speaker 2: What are we looking at here.

1:52:24 Speaker 4: Okay, let's let's can we pause so I can talk about what we're looking at.

1:52:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, you look at this one that way. You can hit the mic right in front of you.

1:52:30 Speaker 4: Okay, this is the beginning. But okay, what we're here's.

1:52:32 Speaker 2: What we're Get that mic right up to you.

1:52:34 Speaker 1: There.

1:52:34 Speaker 4: We're looking at a place in western Montana called Camus Prairie. And you see some hills in the foreground, and you see a basin in the background. Right okay, right here on top of this hill and down on the side here you see that there are some quarrying operations. Those are quarrying gravel. Because everything you're looking at here, this whole landscape between the hills, are these large masses of gravel, trillions of tons of gravel. Now, what we're gonna do is we're gonna start sweeping around as the video plays, and you're gonna load us down here a series of ripples.

1:53:08 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I see that.

1:53:09 Speaker 4: Okay, and I'm gonna have Jamie pause in a second. But let's keep coming around. Do you start seeing the ripples on your landscape? Let's pause right there, right there, let's pause. Now, I wish I had a pointer. But if you look up, you're gonna see a flat piece of land like a tongue coming out rounded yeat, Jamie's uh.

1:53:33 Speaker 2: Right here, that's a delta.

1:53:40 Speaker 4: That's a delta. You know what a delta is. You ever heard of the adelta? It's when a river comes into a body of water and it's carrying sediment. And because the river is moving along swiftly, it's carrying the sediment. But when it comes into the standing body of water, it slows down and it drops its sediment. It builds a delta. The whole city of Portland, for example, is built on a giant delta. Right. New Orleans is built on a delta. Right. Okay, So what we're seeing there is a delta, and then in front of it we're seeing rippled landscape.

1:54:11 Speaker 4: Let's keep coming around, jamie, And so.

1:54:14 Speaker 2: Rippled landscape that looks exactly like the beach looks.

1:54:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, keep coming around with That's the thing is fractal, because this, this is the whole mystery of this, that this happens at a scale of inches on beaches and a scale of hundreds of feet here.

1:54:26 Speaker 4: Top again, Okay, Now right here in the middle, you see a massive delta spewed out like a big tongue splayed out, and then right down here you start seeing the ripples and there's a farmhouse. You see the farmhouse there. Now, those ripples are the tallest ones are about the height of a five story building.

1:54:46 Speaker 2: WHOA how bizarre.

1:54:49 Speaker 4: Keep okay, let's keep keep swinging around.

1:54:52 Speaker 2: Stop it, stop this for a second if you don't mind, No, I don't know these things. They're the size of a five story building. What is that like, seventy feet or fifty feet? Okay, so that's those are fifty feet high? And how much water we'll get to that.

1:55:08 Speaker 4: Let's see. Let's see the rest of it. And these are just dirt right, they're they're well, if you dig into one, what you're gonna find is there they're a massive Okay, let's pause again. Look at this.

1:55:20 Speaker 2: This is crazy.

1:55:21 Speaker 4: This is totally crazy. This is one of the craziest things you'll ever see.

1:55:24 Speaker 2: This is these ripples, repeated ripples in an area where there's nothing else like it.

1:55:29 Speaker 3: This is the fingerprints of the flood, that's what it is.

1:55:32 Speaker 1: Wow.

1:55:34 Speaker 2: Where can someone look at this? How does someone look at this? In real You know this right now? This is what we're looking at. This is this video.

1:55:42 Speaker 4: Well, my colleague Brad Young did this with his drone and I think he's got it on the website geocosmic res.

1:55:51 Speaker 2: Is this being played in the YouTube video right now? Okay, all right, so the YouTube people are cool with it. If you're listening on iTunes, find it, man, find it on YouTube. But it's worth looking at. Is My point is this is mind blowing shit.

1:56:04 Speaker 1: And I think I think you made the crucial point, Joe, which is that we can understand what this is because we can see it on any beach. We can see how water flows receding across a sandy medium will produce ripples. But here they're on this unbelievable scale where they're hundreds of feet long and fifty feet high, where they dwarf houses and they're lying all across. And that's what that tells us is that a huge water flow went across this plane and did this.

1:56:29 Speaker 2: You will seeing it from this perspective above, which is a rare perspective unless you're in a plane or a helicopter or something. You get a chance to look at it this way, you really get a better sense of what it is. If you are on the ground there, you'd probably say, oh, look at all the.

1:56:41 Speaker 3: Hells it's hot to see.

1:56:42 Speaker 4: You don't quite get the impression. We did visit this location and to that day it was overcast, so you don't quite get the effect like you do when you've got a low sun angle really helps you to see what's going on in the landscape.

1:56:57 Speaker 2: Can I ask you is there a dispute to this?

1:56:59 Speaker 4: Is there a Oh no, nobody disputes it is from a flood, not anymore?

1:57:05 Speaker 2: Wow?

1:57:05 Speaker 4: No, In fact, it was this JT party.

1:57:08 Speaker 3: Let's be clear.

1:57:09 Speaker 1: Nobody disputes that it was caused by massive water flows.

1:57:12 Speaker 3: Okay, but these people.

1:57:13 Speaker 1: Would still not buy into the notion that there was this one humongous flood.

1:57:16 Speaker 2: Okay, so they think it's a cumulative effect, but that this was all created.

1:57:20 Speaker 3: This was the bottom of Lake Missoula, right.

1:57:22 Speaker 4: Yes, And this is supposed to actually represent the draining of Lake Missouri. Right Whereas I argue from a number of different reasons that this is the filling of Missoula.

1:57:32 Speaker 2: I have a friend of mine who his friend lives in Montana and they found a dinosaur on his ranch. Oh wow, yeah, really recently.

1:57:41 Speaker 4: We should come back to that because there's a connection here.

1:57:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, the well, the Great Western Inland Sea, all that at that area there was I mean, this is a crazy place at one point in time.

1:57:50 Speaker 3: It still is.

1:57:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, in a different way.

1:57:54 Speaker 4: The water here, Joe that did this. The way to visualize this is to again begin to think of tsunami. You have to think tsunami because tsunami is the closest scale of waterflow that we've experienced in modern times. No river flood has even approached this, no flood in any flood plain.

1:58:14 Speaker 2: Nothing that we can put into perspective.

1:58:16 Speaker 4: Right closest, the closest we can get to it is a tsunami. But even there, you've got to picture the tsunamis that we've experienced in the last decade and a half. And you know in Indonesia and Japan when they made landfall, those tsunamis were roughly between twenty and fifty feet depending on where you were relative to the to the oncoming wave and how far distance you were from it. Here, what you have to visualize is a tsunami sweeping over the land that's over one thousand feet deep. That's that's what happened here, and we know that because we can trace the high water marks on the hillsides are clearly left.

1:58:55 Speaker 4: The high water marks are clearly etched into the into the hillsides. We know based upon the study of the ripples and the water here was moving down. It's filling this basin. It's rushing in in a great tsunami from the north of fresh water melt water coming off the ice sheet, and it's sweeping down over this land at probably two or three hundred million cubic feet per second, which is an inconceivable amount of water. It's many times in excess of every river flowing on Earth flowing today, all at once.

1:59:28 Speaker 4: It's beyond that, many times, ten or twenty times beyond that.

1:59:32 Speaker 2: One of the tripper things about water is that water in itself is kind of fract on some sort of a weird way. When you look at the actual molecules of water, it's almost like we don't distinguish it as being a fractal thing because we see it as like this moving flow. But if you're looking at the actual molecules of water, the cup of water that you dip your fingers in, which is seemingly completely innocuous becomes this massive element of change. When theVolume is one thousand feet high and rolling over with massive amounts of weight behind it, it's that same stuff.

2:00:07 Speaker 4: Massive amounts of weight enough enough way that it's actually causing seismic responses.

2:00:14 Speaker 2: It can only imagine how much weight are you talking about this? You can create these fifty foot high walls. But this what's fascinating to me is that we don't have We don't have a scale like in our minds as a reference, like the difference between that little cup and these gigantic waves that you see that surfers travel by jet ski to get to, you know, the off of I believe it's Mexico. You're seeing those massive waves. They go way out, miles out to get to these crazy waves and ride them into like sixty seventy feet high like that's that's the comparison, almost like a glass of water to those waves and then that to this.

2:00:52 Speaker 1: It scales up, It scales up, it scales up, and at a certain point it can change the whole story of civilization.

2:00:58 Speaker 2: Almost doesn't compute, intellectualize it, but it's almost not computing.

2:01:02 Speaker 4: One of these flood flows. Here is three orders of magnitude greater than the largest measured modern flood. In other words, over a thousand times greater in terms of peak discharge or volume. You would have to scale up at least a thousand times greater than any modern measured flood to get to the smallest really of these flows here, because this is this is just one one place, one locale on five states where you can trace the literally the an ocean of fresh water sweeping across the entire Pacific Northwest, pretty much washing away anything that was there.

2:01:43 Speaker 2: It's almost like we have a defense mechanism built in where we ignore how vulnerable we really are, like we put it. Maybe that's one of the reasons why people are so reluctant to really go deep into studying asteroidal impacts, I think, or even to pay attention to this stuff like that this could happen.

2:02:01 Speaker 1: Now, this is I mean, those are not two separate subjects. Because this is the result of the comet impacts on the on the ice cap. This is this is the this is why I feel that the research in this field is so vital.

2:02:12 Speaker 4: Okay right there, yeah, now here, Notice this is crazy. That's a beach, yeah, but it's a it's a beach. It's a beach for giant monsters, that's what it is. You can see in this here that you've actually got three massive currents converging here. Do you see that over here? You're right, you've got a massive current coming in that would be from the west, and then we're standing, we would be standing looking down current. Of course, this the the drone I'm guessing here is about two hundred feet in elevation, so the top of the water was another eight to nine hundred feet above this perspective right here, and it's moving very very fast, and it's sweeping down into a river valley that's down in those mountains, seeing the distance, and from there it's being carried down and joining up other equally as large floods coming in from other valleys.

2:03:07 Speaker 4: And all of this is happening at once, and it's covering five states basically, and that's just one region that's being affected by this sudden catastrophic melting of the ice sheets.

2:03:19 Speaker 3: They are dealing with the largest flood that ever occurred on Earth. It's as simple as yeah.

2:03:23 Speaker 2: This is insane. I mean, it's insane to look at it.

2:03:25 Speaker 1: It happened here in North America and it happened twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago and its story has yet to be fully told.

2:03:33 Speaker 2: Isn't it possible that there was something larger before, like the sixty five million year ago one that hit the Yukaton, Like what, you know, what kind of an impact did that have?

2:03:41 Speaker 4: Well, it actually would, because if if happened twelve thousand years ago, we wouldn't be happy, None of us.

2:03:47 Speaker 3: Would be heard.

2:03:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be a wrap right.

2:03:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a single large obliquive about six miles wide. That was that was a much more devastating impact than the impacts of twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago. Nevertheless, those impacts of twelve eight hundred years ago were really really bad, and they did stuff like this, and anything that was in the way of this of these massive flows of water would have been rubbed completely from the story.

2:04:12 Speaker 4: So this all makes sense. Yeah, And here's the thing that the Michael Shermers don't get. When you understand the extent of this, the scale of this phenomenon, and the severity, the un inconceivable severity of this. In the aftermath of an event like this, what would remain of a of a city, a village, a refrigerator, No, not a goddamn thing, nothing, nothing with nothing would exist in the aftermath of this, and most things wouldn't exist.

2:04:40 Speaker 2: I mean, you find like an old refrigerator or a car up on blocks in someone's backyard in the south and it's see the nineteen seventies and the rot has gotten into the frame.

2:04:51 Speaker 3: They it's going to eat it up.

2:04:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, nature's eating it up.

2:04:53 Speaker 2: Just in a couple of decades, right, what's it going to be like in a couple of thousand years. We should not we should.

2:04:58 Speaker 1: Not be surprised about how we really know about our past. This is also a comfort game with our kilog Oh yeah, we've got the past all worked out.

2:05:05 Speaker 3: We understand it. Here is is what we teach in schools. This is what our friends in the media report. This is the fact. It's not the facts. We know nothing.

2:05:12 Speaker 1: It's there's been so much lost, so many missing pieces of the puzzle that we're you know, desperately trying to stitch together. And it's important I think that we actually do get some clarity on events like this because we still live on this planet, and we have kids, and we have a future, and we want to hopefully, we want to hopefully, we want.

2:05:30 Speaker 2: If one of those big boys comes our way, well.

2:05:32 Speaker 3: That's that's right.

2:05:33 Speaker 1: But again I come I come down to this, which is which is that we are not dealing with gloom and doom and the end of the world. We're dealing with a problem that humanity should be confronting. We should not be sticking our heads in the sand. We should be confronting this problem. And that's why I support the work of the Comic Research Group, because they are the only people right now who are confronting this problem and really getting to grips with it.

2:05:55 Speaker 2: We should all confront I mean, we should absolutely all support them and confront it because this if something like this can happen once, what really makes sense is how many stories of floods there are in ancient times, and how many parallels there are there are, and.

2:06:10 Speaker 3: How many there are from North America.

2:06:13 Speaker 4: Well, dozens and dozens. Yeah. It was the Caitlin the Indian artists who spent thirty years or so pre Civil War, I think maybe a decade after the Civil War painting Indians of different tribes, and he wrote a book called Last Rambles Amongst the North American Indians, very very interesting book. But what really is interesting to me when I read the book years and years ago, was his final conclusion of the book. He says, after all of these different customs and traditions that have been handed down amongst these tribes, they all have one thing in common.

2:06:43 Speaker 4: They all have a memory or a story of a gigantic world destroying flood. And this has included tribes down into Central America that he visited.

2:06:52 Speaker 1: I believe the Americas are the repository the Native American peoples who have been subjected to so much struction over the years in their mythology, their traditions, their memories. They keep more of this than almost anybody else. It's really tragic what has happened in the Americas from the time of the Spanish conquest, the deliberate destruction of knowledge, the terrible horrendous abuses that Native American people suffered.

2:07:18 Speaker 3: They are our wisdom keepers.

2:07:20 Speaker 1: They are the people who passed down the oral tradition and remember the past. So not only do we have cataclysms wiping the human memory, but we ourselves actively get involved in the human memory and wipe it.

2:07:31 Speaker 3: We rub it out.

2:07:32 Speaker 1: The burning of the Maya Codices by the Spanish Friars thousands and thousand.

2:07:36 Speaker 3: God knows what was in those documents.

2:07:39 Speaker 1: You know, we might have had a whole other story about ourselves if we could have had access to those, But instead where this destructive, cannibalistic species that just goes and smashes everything to bits.

2:07:49 Speaker 2: It's a weird impulse that human beings have. Is when they move into an area and they take over at one of the things they like to do is destroy their icons, destroy everything. What's going on with isis and all these ancient Buddhists structures a thousand plus year old, beautiful sculptures, and they're blowing them up, you know, and yelling praise God while they're doing it. It's really very bizarre. It's a very bizarre inclination that we have. But it's so it's almost like we don't want people.

2:08:13 Speaker 4: To know, you know.

2:08:15 Speaker 2: It a bizarre, almost human instinct to wipe out the past and just to constantly keep moving on.

2:08:21 Speaker 3: Or is there some trauma?

2:08:22 Speaker 1: Is there some collective trauma, some deeply deeply suppressed.

2:08:25 Speaker 3: Memory could be that we that we can't quite confront.

2:08:28 Speaker 4: That's that's exactly the thought I had, because I think that's the one way one of those areas where Velikowski finally really nailed it was mankind in amnesia, that somehow we carry this the trauma. Because once you begin to get a handle and you get to get the picture of these events as they occurred and did occur and would have been experienced by our ancestors, you've got to understand what would it be like to see your entire world completely obliterated, starting over again from basically a barren mudfield.

2:09:00 Speaker 4: You know, that's the same tough what these people were.

2:09:02 Speaker 2: Faced if they lived at all, and so few peoples they did, because here we are.

2:09:07 Speaker 4: But you know, again, the evidence is emerging of major cultural collapse.

2:09:11 Speaker 2: If you had a guess what percentage of the population of human beings just is obviously just a guess, but how.

2:09:17 Speaker 4: Many do you think we're wiped out?

2:09:19 Speaker 2: Half of them? Three quarters of them?

2:09:21 Speaker 4: I don't think that would be unrealistic.

2:09:23 Speaker 2: No, it doesn't seem like it would be. And if it was that number and those people, that's enough for people to survive. And if it was that number, boy, what a strange fucking mythical pass.

2:09:35 Speaker 1: They would have the other thing to bear in mind is in the world today, our world, we have an advanced civilization America, you know, Germany, the industrialized technological countries, and we have coexisting with them in South America, in the Namibian Desert, we have hunter gatherers. So the notion that hunter gatherers and an advanced civilization might coexist in the same epoch of history should not be strange to us, because we're doing that today. And that's what I would suggest happened before twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago, before the cataclysm of twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago, that there was a fairly advanced civilization that was capable of mapping and exploring the world, creating gigantic works of architecture, and it coexisted with hunter gatherers.

2:10:23 Speaker 3: And who were the ones.

2:10:25 Speaker 1: Who survived the cataclysm? The answer is the ones who survived the cataclysm were the hunter gatherers, not.

2:10:31 Speaker 3: The sophisticated peoples.

2:10:32 Speaker 1: A few of them survived, and they then settled amongst the hunter gatherers and tried to transfer some of their knowledge and skills to them.

2:10:39 Speaker 3: And it's the same today.

2:10:41 Speaker 1: If we were to have a repeat of the younger Driess cataclysm. Today, I don't think that people from Los Angeles or London would be amongst the leading survivors. I think the survivors would be people like the hunter gatherers of the Amazon Rainforest, because they're in the.

2:10:55 Speaker 3: Business of surviving. That's what they do. It's not a mystery to them. It's not even a problem.

2:11:00 Speaker 4: They do it.

2:11:01 Speaker 1: They do it all the time. Would they would carry the human story forward and ten thousand years from now their descendants would be telling a myth about how there was once a great civilization on this planet, so advanced that they could even go to the Moon, they could fly around the planet, they could speak to one another on other sides of the Earth.

2:11:22 Speaker 3: But they did something wrong.

2:11:23 Speaker 1: They fell out of harmony with the universe. They ceased to wear their prosperity with moderation. That's actually a line from Plato about Atlantis Wow, and the universe slapped them down. So there would be a differential survival rate those who were I would say that those who are more technologically advanced are less likely to survive because they depend on a complex interrelated network of skills, and any individual on his or her own, most of them well you're a different Joe because you do know how to survive, but a lot of people don't know.

2:11:54 Speaker 2: How to how to survive most likely, so you've worked at it.

2:11:58 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I'm not that good.

2:12:00 Speaker 3: But of us, most of us haven't even worked out it. We haven't got a clue.

2:12:03 Speaker 2: Let me fucking open everybody's eyes to all these people that think that you can just go out there and shoot animals and stay alive, good fucking luck. You're you're probably screwed if you have a rifle. Even if you have a rifle, you're probably screwed. If you have a bow and arrow, you're gonna fucking starve to death. Right. It's extremely difficult, yes, to get close, you know.

2:12:22 Speaker 1: And yet hunter gatherers for thousands and thousands of years have succeeded in doing that, Like the bushmen of the Kalahara.

2:12:28 Speaker 2: I think there was less humans and more animals, right, I think that's also part of the rub Okay, it's like we're dealing with just one of the terrible things we've done is taking these giant swaths of land and made them entirely inhabitable for wildlife, like cities. Like when how many people grow food in the city. What is the percentage? Is it even one tenth of one percent of people in the city grow their own food? Probably not even that. So you have these massive, essentially deserts with where no wildlife exists other than predatory species like coyotes and ravens and things like that that take and then you go out from there, and then you have these vast farm lands.

2:13:05 Speaker 2: The only benefit of the vast farmlands is the amount of deer that exists now is greatly more than when Columbus landed. But it's because they've almost become an agricultural animal. It's almost like they're almost a domesticated animal. They're a free, wild, domesticated animal. I have a friend who has a farm in Iowa, and when you go there, it's very strange because he's got these wild, giant, three hundred pound forest horses running around his backyard. I mean, they're fucking everywhere. There's all these giant deer, and when we were there, what's called the rut, so all these they're very horny.

2:13:39 Speaker 2: So the big bucks, who usually hide, they show themselves. I'm like, this is a crazy place, Like there's all these wild animals that exist along with people, and even in a game rich place like that, it's incredibly difficult to get to one. You have to have vegetables.

2:13:54 Speaker 4: You have to have your own vegetables.

2:13:56 Speaker 1: So let's imagine a situation where all the resources of our cities, all the yeah, all the amenities, all the infrastructure are gone.

2:14:03 Speaker 2: Most of us are fucked, I.

2:14:04 Speaker 3: Would say radically.

2:14:06 Speaker 1: I would say, in fact, our civilization, which appears so strong, is actually very very fragile.

2:14:11 Speaker 2: Extremely just a little push. It's like when you look out the window and you're like, wow, that's the outside. No, that's a piece of glass. You're outside, it's not that piece of glass, and you're outside.

2:14:22 Speaker 4: The effortless it is.

2:14:23 Speaker 2: It just seems impenetrable because you know, you pull the shades tight and you set your alarm clock and sleep. You're sleeping next to glass.

2:14:31 Speaker 4: Yes, Like it's hilarious.

2:14:33 Speaker 2: You feel confident and you're sleeping next to a piece of fucking glass.

2:14:36 Speaker 1: Now, there's this incredible complacency and arrogance of modern civilization that we are the apex and pinnacle of the human story, that we're the best that's ever come. And and that's a danger mythologically, that is a very dangerous place to be when you start imagining yourself as the apex and the pinnacle of everything. That's precisely when the universe reminds you that you are not that at all.

2:14:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very weird existence that we have where we just sort of look at how things are right now and we can't imagine things being any different no matter what. Whether it's people that have to come to the realization that they've been injured, like someone breaks their leg and all of a sudden, it just doesn't compute, like how come I can't walk anymore? Well, your reality is now shifted, and this reality that we have here with this fairly healthy earth could shift at any moment. The Yellowstone volcano is the one that's been freaking me out the most over the last few years.

2:15:31 Speaker 3: Another big issue.

2:15:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, an interesting parallel would be if we look at smaller what happens in smaller catastrophes like we've seen today, when we look at the at For example, when Katrina hit New Orleans, right, it was almost as if the human species separated into two subspecies. You had one group of people that rose to the occasion and did heroic things. They organized and they saved people spontaneuaneously, you know, because the government was conspicuously absent for five days, the first five days of the Katrina disaster.

2:16:06 Speaker 4: And here you had a major flooding of New Orleans and you had people spontaneously organizing and performing these heroic actions of saving their fellow man and and doing just stupendous things, superhero type things. But then you had another segment to the population. It just went completely barbaric, and you had mass rapes and you know, smashing of businesses and looting and just people running in wild, complete unrestrained gangs and just committing violent acts at random.

2:16:42 Speaker 1: So in America, the richest country on earth, did not manage that CRISI as well.

2:16:47 Speaker 3: I mean it was very and that was a little crisis by comparison with what we tooken of.

2:16:51 Speaker 2: Remember when Kanye West got on TV George Bush does not like black people.

2:16:55 Speaker 4: I don't remember that, but yeah, George Bush. I think it was on day four, George Bush flew over an Air Force one and look the window wave. Yeah. Yeah, give people hope. But there's there's a lesson lessons in those kinds of events. Sure, yeah, we're not prepared and we have to extrapolate from that. And and you know, if you if you go back and you know, I oftentimes a thought exercise, think, how how would we respond if we knew that there was a high probability of a younger dryest type event or series of events impending in our future?

2:17:26 Speaker 4: What would you do? Start drinking?

2:17:29 Speaker 2: Well, it all depends on lead time, right, It all depends on if it's a ten day lead time, like you're not gonna be able to shoot a rocket up there. Again, un let's go hard, go hard to the end in ten days, but ten years.

2:17:43 Speaker 3: Or twentys then we can do some stuff.

2:17:46 Speaker 4: Then we can do some stuff. The real scary thing is there's two scary things.

2:17:49 Speaker 2: One, uh, if you survived, because you're like, fuck, you know if you if you really did survive and everybody else was jacked. And also you're dealing with some Mad Max type reality where people are starving to death and they're very desperate and they become almost like animals. That's entirely inside the realman possibility.

2:18:06 Speaker 4: Well, that's what we learned from Katrina or the.

2:18:09 Speaker 2: Other terrifying possibility is that you leave the future of civilization up to those other people. Is that they survive, and they have kids, and their kids survive, and somehow or another, somewhere along the line, we get better and better at understanding our place here, which is what I think has happened. And all it would take is one I mean, this is as much as people are complaining right now, as much as there's riots in the streets because or excuse me, protests in the streets some riots apparently, but over the president elect.

2:18:39 Speaker 2: What this time is, It represents the greatest time in history when it comes to safety, when it comes to knowledge, access to information, the way we understand each other. I don't think it's ever been better as far as as.

2:18:49 Speaker 1: Sing as we know, we have everything at our feet. Yeah, there's incredible potential in modern civilization, but the problem is that there's also very rigid mind control.

2:19:02 Speaker 3: The way that our societies work.

2:19:04 Speaker 1: It's turning people into drones. People people brought up to believe that their only purpose in existence is production and consumption, that the people forced to fit into a sort of narrow place in the machine. Mass media beaming you know, messages at us, at us all the time. Even the concept of democracy is absurd when you don't when you don't have complete transparency, when there are secrets, when things are hidden, how can the people vote, you know, with a clear with clear mind, and if a lot is being hidden.

2:19:31 Speaker 3: From them, that's not democracy.

2:19:33 Speaker 1: Democracies in fact invest in in mind control most unfortunate development.

2:19:38 Speaker 2: Well, I wonder how long it's going to take before the rigid mindsets that are in place right now and this idea of this resistance to change that we were talking about when it comes to science, when it comes to accepting this asteroidal impact theory. And I think that exists in politics. I think it exists in religion. I think it exists socially, the way we approach relationships and friendships and just all of it is evolving in front of our eyes. I was watching a movie last night, not another teenage movie?

2:20:11 Speaker 1: Is that?

2:20:11 Speaker 4: What it is? Is that what it's called?

2:20:12 Speaker 2: And I was live tweeting it, so smoking pot and writing and sometimes I just like to have the TV on and not listen to it.

2:20:18 Speaker 4: Just sometimes I like.

2:20:19 Speaker 2: To see some things when I'm just writing things. Sometimes I don't that last night, I chose to do it that way, and I just got so enamored in this weird movie from two thousand and one. This is the movie felt like a time machine. It's like I was watching this culture that does not exist anymore. It's one of those like teenager movies where they're like in college and they're drinking. There's a lot of naked women and really racist, sexist humor, and it's really crude and goofy and stupid, and I'm like, this is so bizarre because this doesn't exist anymore.

2:20:55 Speaker 2: In this kind of film, like this is like this is like Al Jolson with black face on or something. And in a way, it's like a cultural time machine, like you get to go and for a brief moment see like this comedy that somebody concocted in two thousand and one, which seems so recent, but it's such a In that film, you get evidence of this weird cultural change. Ordn't it a weird massive cultural change that's happened as far as where we're allowed to joke around about things like there's some racist shit in that movie, like racist and sexist shit and violence like men punching women in the face and shit like that you just can't really do in a comedy today.

2:21:32 Speaker 2: And that's only fifteen years ago, and what is it going to be like If we can avoid getting hit by a rock, blowing ourselves up, yellowstone blowing up in our face, if we can keep going, I think we're on a great path, regardless of where people think about the President elect.

2:21:47 Speaker 1: And I think we're on a great path. It's a hazardous past path. It's a path where the future is not at all certain. But humanity is at one of those moments cross throw. It's where you kind of stand on the edge of an abyss and you don't quite know what lies ahead. And we can take a really great path out of this, or we can take a really horrible path out of this.

2:22:10 Speaker 3: And I think the key issue is that we do actually have choice. It doesn't have to be that way.

2:22:15 Speaker 1: I see a positive a lot that's positive out there in the world. I do think people are waking up. I think they are questioning old structures. They're refusing to put up with the bullshit any longer. More and more people are doing that. That's happening in the realm of politics. It's happening in the realm of dealing with the big corporations. It's happening in the realm of investigating the past. We're just not going to be told what to think anymore. That's encouraging. But then on the other side, there are huge efforts being put precisely into making people think in certain ways, whether it's the advertising industry, whether it's political messages, and so we have to be aware of that, and it could go It could go down the drone path, I mean, like the beehive path, which would be white even bothered to be human if your society is turning you into a worker, drone, a bee, I've life existed, So it could go down an expansion of consciousness and the realization of the incredible, beautiful potential of the human race.

2:23:08 Speaker 2: I rectually feel like that's where it's going.

2:23:11 Speaker 3: I'm optimistic. I'm very optimistic.

2:23:13 Speaker 2: Well that's beautiful to hear because this is a time Like I was watching the John Oliver Show. It's a great show on HBO, very funny guy and his very left wing leaning, as is his show. But they had this fuck twenty sixteen thing where they were just naming off all the horrible things that happened in twenty sixteen and then just saying goodbye to this terrible year. I'm like, do you have a lot of good shit happened this year too. There's a lot of fantastic discoveries, a lot of interesting observations, a lot of people learned a lot of things in twenty sixteen as well.

2:23:44 Speaker 1: And I think that and quite a number of American states have made cannabis legal.

2:23:48 Speaker 2: Yes, that's I think.

2:23:49 Speaker 3: You know, it's a huge development.

2:23:51 Speaker 2: It's also a big It's going to be a big factor in our cultural evolution.

2:23:55 Speaker 4: It really will. Well, it was a big factor in the sixties. It was a huge factor. In effect. What happened. You had a very closed conservative society and then you had an outside shock in the form of the psychedelic drugs that came in and completely stirred up everything in art and music and fashion and even into scientific concepts of our place in the universe and time and space, and in so many ways that had just a major impact on the direction that our society went. And what would be the equivalent today or in our near future in terms of an outside shock that would suddenly wake people up, would be another event, another Tenguska event.

2:24:41 Speaker 4: And based upon everything that I've seen, it would suggest that events like that are going to happen and probably within our lifetime, and when it does happen, especially if the message of the story has been out and enough people have heard it five percent of the people or ten percent of the people are aware that they're there is this major, impending potential paradigm shift, and then we have an event like that, an event like Tunguska nineteen oh eight. I think that's all it would take, because the magnitude of that event would have been such that it occurred today and you had anywhere from a million to two million people instantly wiped out or a whole city instantly annihilated from a thing from a shot from space.

2:25:27 Speaker 4: What effect would that have on the planetary consciousness?

2:25:31 Speaker 1: And which with this latest exercise, NASA coming late to the party, finally seems to be thinking about.

2:25:36 Speaker 3: You know, what happened?

2:25:37 Speaker 1: They finally see what happened if LA is hit by you know, a three hundred and fifty foot diameter.

2:25:41 Speaker 4: Right, And that's them is because when the when the probability models for a Tunguska type event were first laid out in the fifties and sixties and into the seventies, it was pretty much determined that it was like something that would happen once a millennium, once every couple of millenniums. Then it sort of got contracted to once every few centuries. You know, it may be that it's actually much more like one or two a century, or maybe even perhaps clustered events where you may have three or four or half a dozen of those type events occurring over a very short window of time.

2:26:14 Speaker 4: But an event like that happening, not one that would be cause the extinction of civilization by any means, but an event like that that could, you know, wipe out a thousand square miles of landscape completely in an instant would have a major effect, I think on the people of this planet.

2:26:34 Speaker 3: It would focus minds.

2:26:35 Speaker 4: It would focus minds in a way that nothing else would. And it's not to me. Is it pessimistic to say that might be what it's going to take or is it just realistic? I don't know.

2:26:46 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's like the massive impact versus the slow trickle effect. I mean, is it going to happen eventually or is it going to happen in one gigantic swoop because of an event like an asteroidal impact where it kills a bunch of people and we wake up to the fridge agility of our existence.

2:27:01 Speaker 1: But either way, it's a waking up of humanity and that is in process.

2:27:04 Speaker 2: That is happening.

2:27:05 Speaker 3: That is in process.

2:27:06 Speaker 1: Now look as a brit observing what's been happening in America. As an outsider, I'm enormously encouraged by the legalization of cannabis movement that is taking place here and and what it all means. Sure, I like to smoke a joint, but this is not about getting high. It's not about recreation. What this is about is recognizing the sovereignty of adults to make decisions over their own bodies, their own health, and their own consciousness while doing no harm to others. That's what it's about, and that's a really fucking important issue.

2:27:36 Speaker 1: Is for me, that is the most important issue, because if we live in a society that is not prepared to recognize adult sovereignty over one's own body and one's own consciousness, then that cannot be a free society in any meaningful way. And so I applaud the people of America in those states who have voted for full legalization. That's a brilliant thing to do, and that's going to have an impact around the world because the War on drugs, all the ideal and lies about cannabis are all going to be proved wrong.

2:28:03 Speaker 1: We're going to know that the Emperor wears no clothes, that you can legalize cannabis and civilization does.

2:28:09 Speaker 3: Not fall apart.

2:28:10 Speaker 1: As the war on drugs lobby have been telling us for ages, it's going to it's going to change everything. And it's a beautiful thing because it's the American people, Whereas the American state, America as a governmental state presence on the world stage, has been the dark force behind the war on drugs. So it's for me a beautiful thing that is the American people's state by state who are winding that back and saying we will not put up with this shit anymore.

2:28:35 Speaker 2: I think what you were talking about earlier is really important too. We were talking about different factions of our civilization are creating. To this day, they're still creating disinformation and still trying to mislead people. But I think that goes to what we're talking about before, where it's a system and systems protect themselves and I think that.

2:28:56 Speaker 3: They develop almost a consciousness of their own. It's scary in a way.

2:28:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, roucracies on the bureaucracy's they got a kind of personality.

2:29:02 Speaker 2: Well, even when there's no financial stake in it, there's just a social steak, like what you're seeing right now with the left versus the right. Like there's some people like my friend Wanda Syke's just got booed off stage at something last night apparently where she went on some anti Trump rant and then and people got super upset at there's these systems that are in place. This almost like wanting to fight, like it's not. It sets us up in this bizarre team mentality where this left protects its ideas of the future and the right protects its ideas.

2:29:37 Speaker 2: And I'm watching these people go at it back and forth on social media and it's toxic. And I don't like to use that term because it's so compromised by you know, toxic sexuality or toxic masculine. There's so many uses of that word in our culture. But I think that this desire to fight with each other.

2:29:53 Speaker 1: And be deeply unpleasant, it's really horrible, hurtful, ghostly things.

2:29:57 Speaker 3: You see it so often, and really, I mean.

2:30:00 Speaker 2: And from the left too as well as the right. The left is exactly, and I think that we have to resist the urge to fight. I think this is when people push too far on the left, that's when the right emerges. When people push too far on the right, that's when the left comes up. And you know, that's when you know can't state emergence. You have all these weird factions duking it out that have so much in common, and a lot of times the things that they don't have in common, it's either because of an ignorance, or it's because of an ideological dispute, or a lack of communication.

2:30:33 Speaker 2: And I think if those three things are in place, at least open lines of communication. Lynch is also fostered by marijuana. And you get these people talking openly and vulnerably about these things, and you find out that a lot of our misgivings and our misunderstandings about each other are just misconceptions, miscommunications, and we even if we disagree on things. I have friends that I disagree on a lot of stuff with, but we're very close because you're allowed to have different opinions.

2:31:00 Speaker 3: Of course, that's what makes the world. Interest doesn't have to be we hated each other because we can we.

2:31:04 Speaker 1: Can listen to somebody else's opinion with empathy rather than with hatred or anger.

2:31:09 Speaker 2: We have we're too it's too attractive to be on a team like the fucking Amazon. It's yeah, it is, man, It's it's too attractive. It's too attractive. And we love I mean, we love city versus city. We love that. We love when you know Chicago is going to take on Cleveland folk, We love that.

2:31:28 Speaker 1: The tribal is the tribal thing, you know, we we we've not really evolved out of that. We've changed our social structures, but we're still tribal. Tribal mentality. Nationalism is just tribalism writ large.

2:31:39 Speaker 2: Is it really is just like religions just to cult with a lot more people?

2:31:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

2:31:44 Speaker 4: Yeah. Should we look at one more?

2:31:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, we could look at as many as you want.

2:31:47 Speaker 4: Man, roll the party. What do you got? Let's let's see the next one.

2:31:51 Speaker 3: Back to the flood.

2:31:52 Speaker 4: This is the place that I didn't get to take Graham. Really, okay, I really wanted to take you here.

2:31:58 Speaker 3: Let's see it.

2:31:58 Speaker 4: Let's see it, so you're going to see it. Second best? Okay, possibly this is the potholes.

2:32:04 Speaker 2: Oh, this is crazy, This well, we're looking at folks that people who are just listening in you have to go to the YouTube now because this is insanity. This is as close like an for a dummy like me to look at something like that and I go, oh fucking for Yeah, that's definitely a river, a river carved that.

2:32:28 Speaker 4: Okay, what you're looking at there is a gigantic, extinct set of cataracts like you would find it Niagara Falls. But to use Graham's term rit large, we're looking at a ridge. We're looking east. The tsunami wave that swept down over these four states, one branch of it swept off to the west. This particular branch of it was four hundred feet deep when it hit this ridge. And what it did was it spilled over the ridge and down here in the foreground you see the modern day Columbia River from the top of the ridge where you see the agriculture and the landscape down to the rivers about one thousand feet So you basically have to picture you've got this huge sheet of water three to four hundred feet deep.

2:33:14 Speaker 4: It's rushing over and it finds the lowest spot within this ridge and that's where it starts focusing its energy, and as it does, it begins to just strip away the rock. Now what you're looking at here is this cataract complex is about five miles across, and the water came, and you see you've got those kind of curved finger lakes at the top and those tunnels. Those are potholes. Insane potholes are formed by underwater turbulence, and in a flood this swiftly moving, with this much turbulence, you literally have verticular eddies, high intensity, high amplitude, high energy, underwater tornadoes, literally underwater tornadoes.

2:33:56 Speaker 4: Now, these underwater tornadoes are typically in this case about a half a mile wat. Oh my god. They're spinning at a high rate of speed, and they're right there. They're probably six hundred feet deep because the water pouring over the ridge is at least two hundred and you can see what it's done to the bedrock.

2:34:12 Speaker 2: Anybody listening, you gotta wa you gotta look at this. You have to look at this and then listen to the scale.

2:34:17 Speaker 4: This is. This is a gigantic scar in the landscape, of which there are hundreds around this this ridge.

2:34:24 Speaker 3: The exact location rendal.

2:34:26 Speaker 4: This is pothole's cataract. Right the exact location.

2:34:31 Speaker 3: Howdy wants to get to it, which we were in Washington State.

2:34:34 Speaker 4: Still, Yes, we're in Washington State, central Washington. It's gonna be right on the Columbia River, just below a natchi Okay.

2:34:41 Speaker 1: Where we saw that, where we saw that huge, that huge, erratic, yes, giant, eighteen thousand ton boulder brought there and chained in an iceberg, an iceberg floating on the flood carry an iceberg the size of an oil tanker carrying an eighteen thousand ton bowlder carried on the flood grounds, seven hundred feet up a valley side rests there. As the floodwaters received, the ice melts away and the boulder is left sitting there.

2:35:06 Speaker 4: We're going to look at a picture of that boulder in a second. What are the.

2:35:09 Speaker 2: People back in this part of the country, What do they think about this?

2:35:13 Speaker 4: Well, you know, they're only just catching on to what they're sitting on top of the first time I went out here ninety eight, there was the Ice Age Floods Institute, and I went to their only location, which was a which was in the Better Business Bureau in Moses Lake, Washington, and it was they had one room in the back of this better Business or no Chamber of Commerce chamber of Commerce, and there was two elderly ladies in there who were basically the overseers of the group. Now there's about two dozen chapters and every year there's several guided field trips led by geologists who are studying this in their off time.

2:35:51 Speaker 4: And I've been on a number of these just to participate and get the access to the geologists in order to pick their brains. But this is this is very close to Wnatchi, Washington. So if anybody's wanting to find this on Google Earth, this is a Google Earth image. Now what we're gonna do, But before we leave the Google Earth image, I was going to explain that you've got those you got those see those lakes, those those meandering lakes up there. What you got a picture is you've got a sheet of water coming and as it's coming over this ridge, it's beginning to selectively erode into fault lines and cracks within the bedrock.

2:36:25 Speaker 4: Can you picture that the water is going to naturally try to go into those low spots where there's cracks and fissures, and it'll start going from a sheet into channeling what goes from sheet to a channel, then then that spills over the ridge and in the middle you see this, It's called a rock blade. See that the rock blade is that? Yes, that's it right there, separating the two alcoves. If the flood had continued for another few days, that rock blade would have been gone and you would have had a single alcove up there.

2:36:58 Speaker 4: Now, in the next as as this proceeds, what we're gonna do with We're gonna go down and we're gonna be right at the head of the rock blade right there. Yeah, right there, we're standing right there. So now you're gonna get to see as the drone is about to take off, you're seeing the landscape. We're looking to the east in the direction of those finger lakes, and I guess the soundtrack.

2:37:21 Speaker 2: Is it not playing the sound Oh?

2:37:24 Speaker 4: There we go in here a little takata and fugueen d minor.

2:37:29 Speaker 1: Ooh okay, and the landscape opens up. So you're on that rock blade.

2:37:33 Speaker 4: We're on the rock blade right there. So now you can begin to see the scale of this thing that we were just seeing from Google Earth.

2:37:40 Speaker 2: Well, now, the way when you describe it, I mean I would have just looked at it and go, wow, that's kind of cool looking. I would never have thought, oh, that was obviously created by water pouring through.

2:37:51 Speaker 4: That's the problem is because we haven't had the scale of perception. It took Brett's twenty five years to put the pieces together.

2:37:59 Speaker 2: Well, also, we haven't been able to take these sort of high resolution photographs of their right above it till recently.

2:38:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what gives us a whole other insight. I mean, it used to be one thousand dollars an hour to get up there in the helicopter. Now you can fly a drone around, you know, with a phone.

2:38:14 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, GoPro on it. Right here in the middle ground, you see that big hole that's about two hundred feet in diameter. That's that's a pothole that was created by this swirling vortex of massively turbulent water.

2:38:28 Speaker 2: Oh shit, this is incredible.

2:38:30 Speaker 1: In otherwise, the evidence is all over the landscape, all staring us in the eyes, and it's only in the recent years that it started to make sense.

2:38:37 Speaker 4: Well, we've we've evolved the eyes to be able to see this, and so now by going out here with a drone. I've been over this landscape several times in a small plane to see it from that perspective. But now, like he just said, like Graham just said, now we've got a drone, it can go up and see it from a whole different perspective. And now you can see see the see the man standing right down near the rock. You see that little dude, yeah, ye, yeah, that little That little dude is six feet tall. He's not that little.

2:39:08 Speaker 2: I mean on the picture he's little, no, no, in he's.

2:39:11 Speaker 4: Actually only four inches. It's it's it's an illusions.

2:39:17 Speaker 2: To me, stunning. I mean, this is really beautiful and cool and everything like that. But it's really stunning is the initial picture where it becomes so obvious, that above picture where you see the farmland and that just it's so obviously cut, cut, sliced out of the lens.

2:39:31 Speaker 4: Let's see the rest of it. Then as the drone flies over. Yeah, so, and then we have what's called classic scab land. You see all these mounds, these kind of lumps, that's what what are the scabs on the scab land. That's why it's called scab land.

2:39:45 Speaker 1: And again it's flooding that causes it plucking differentially, plucking material off the surface.

2:39:51 Speaker 2: Wow, this is incredible. And then there's water remaining.

2:39:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, they filled filled the potholes. Yeah. God, there you get a saw mi there, you get a sense of the rock blade.

2:40:03 Speaker 2: Well, then you get a sense of what the volume of water mustle looked like when it was rushing through there.

2:40:07 Speaker 4: Right, And see this is justly I mean we've looked at two features now, camas prairie and potholes cataract. We could sit here for the next ten hours looking at dozens and dozens of these mega features. And you look at there's a whole bar. This is a gravel bar down here over there. Okay, see the giant ripples on it. You see those? Yeah, I've never seen those reported in the literature. It may be that nobody's ever really.

2:40:34 Speaker 2: Seen them before, or no one's ever paid attention.

2:40:36 Speaker 4: Nobody's ever paid attention, But there they are.

2:40:38 Speaker 2: So how what is mainstream science used to describe this this sort of or mainstream archaeology used to describe these features?

2:40:45 Speaker 4: It should be geology.

2:40:47 Speaker 2: Well yeah, they so they believe this is catastrophic flooding as well. I just think it's a slower I think.

2:40:54 Speaker 1: It's lots of small catastrophic floods that not one, not one big catastrophic flood.

2:40:59 Speaker 2: And how what kind of time are these geologists putting on.

2:41:01 Speaker 4: Us, oh, two or three thousand years? Yeah, and why do they think that? Well, because of the ice damned model and how much time it would take. See, it gets complicated.

2:41:12 Speaker 1: And because until the comet research, there was no credible source of heat that could melt that amount of ice and cause out. Now that's the new factor that's come into the equation.

2:41:23 Speaker 4: Now you look at look at the people standing on the cliff edge there, or the edge of the rock. But do you see him down there? Yeah, so now you get the sense of scale. What would survive again in the aftermath. Not that dude, No, not that dude, Not that dude or his buddies.

2:41:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a crazy place, man, it's crazy to look at. It's just so when you were looking above it, like even here, I mean you get a sense of it. But if you had just showed this to me, quite honestly, I probably wouldn't have pieced that together. But when you look at it the original image, it's so blatantly obvious.

2:41:58 Speaker 4: Right, Well, that's That's the thing now, is we are in this position where we can we can see it. And when I take people out in the field, what I do is I prep them first by showing these images from NASA, the satellite photography, the Google Earth imagery, aerial photography, then ground photography, and then you go out in the landscape. And at that point you can start having this framework for understanding what you're seeing. Otherwise you just don't. The scale of it is too vast. It's amazing, it's really amazing.

2:42:28 Speaker 1: And this is, you know, this is an adventure of exploration that we're just getting launched on. This is this is recovering, recovering the lost, the lost past of humanity. And if I may, I want to make a picture gain for the Comet, for the Comet Research Group. If anybody I think it's really important, it's not. It's it's not just a matter of funding their research. It's also a matter of sending a message that we the people are prepared to take matters into our own hands and support those scientists who are working with open minds inquiring into the past.

2:43:03 Speaker 1: And whether you give a dollar or one hundred dollars or whatever, any little Counts says, it's the voice of the people as much as the money that really matters. These guys, the Comet Research Group, they need their research funding. They have an indigog crowdfunding campaign. You can go to my website press the Comet Research Group banner. It will take you to a page with all the relevant links. Please consider supporting it. It's valid, it's worthwhile, it's worthy work, and it has the potential to change the whole story of our past and our future.

2:43:34 Speaker 4: And it's a story that would be incredibly exciting to be a part of. And that's what I'm trying to get people to think. Look, there's this thing happening, and it really it is democratic in its own way, and you don't have to be some specialist or particular authority in some branch of academically approved science to begin to appreciate and understand this, which you're a human being getting out into the field and seeing this kind of stuff first and getting it into the discussion, into debate, and spending more time on this because it's such an interesting story.

2:44:07 Speaker 1: And that's what the scientists that the Comment Research Group are offering. That the people who contribute will participate in certain ways in this that's awesome.

2:44:14 Speaker 2: In the future, well, we're what I was going to say is we're all human beings. We're a part of this planet. We are pedestrians walking along at the on that we're being carried by this planet. And all this stuff is all right. It's your right to understand what the history of this crazy rock has gone through. Absolutely, this is amazing, amazing stuff.

2:44:34 Speaker 4: In the perspective to understand this is like this for twelve thousand years, this story has been written into the landscape of the Earth, and only now are we able to step back and begin to see the big picture in tandem with ever greater detail. And what's emerging is really it's a really wild tale. But the evidence is there to support it completely.

2:45:00 Speaker 1: And this is I mean, this is this is what I've this is the story I've told in Magicians of the Ghoths. This is this is recovering this lost memory.

2:45:07 Speaker 2: It really is wild. And our time here on this planet has been confusing for so many reasons, and one of the big ones is not understanding how we got here. And that's one of the reasons why your book, I think is so important to me. Just give you this new perspective of how this sort of civilization emerged. Another problem, and I think we deal with all the time, is light pollution. I think light pollution you never see the stars. It's I think it's really a perspective blocker in a big way.

2:45:35 Speaker 3: No, it absolutely is.

2:45:37 Speaker 1: Radald and I were having a discussion earlier about how ancient cultures related to the cosmos as above so below.

2:45:43 Speaker 3: They felt themselves.

2:45:44 Speaker 1: Connected with the cosmos. They made their monuments in alignment with key celestial bodies.

2:45:50 Speaker 3: They did it very carefully.

2:45:51 Speaker 1: There was a sense of bringing down the enchantment of the heavens onto onto earth. In modern societies, we can't even see the stars. You live in the middle of the city, the stars are gone. The light pollution just blots them out. You never think they're there, and you forget actually that you're part of a majestic cosmo, so that everything about it is mystery. We are immersed in mystery from the moment we're born to the moment we die. And yet our society is telling us, oh, it's all very prosaic and dull, and it's just about production.

2:46:19 Speaker 4: Everything is all explained, so you don't really need to worry yourself about it too much because some authority somewhere has it all figured out.

2:46:25 Speaker 2: No one has it all figured out. It's not possible. I think everybody owes it to themselves to go out into the desert in the middle of when you know there's a stretch where the moon is not going to be out and there's going to be clear skies. Especially if you live in southern California, you can get out too the desert pretty easy. Just get out away from all the cities and just look up, and it'll freak you out. It'll freak you out because it's one of those things that you kind of really take for granted because most of the time the sky is just a dark, black, featureless thing.

2:46:52 Speaker 2: The little couple little white dots aren't really that compelling. But when you get out there and you see the actual milky Way itself, you go, oh, holy.

2:46:59 Speaker 4: Shit, we'll see now we could have. You know, every year, there's probably a dozen high altitude events that could have been witnessed by ancient peoples that we are completely oblivious to because of our urban existence, because of light pollution, because nobody is really looking at the sky. But these high altitude events would be essentially equivalent to like ki Sema sized bombs going off twenty miles up and we're just outside. Yeah, especially like if it's in the daytime and you're not looking right up there, you're not going to see daytime and at night, if you're living in the city, if you're inside the light pollution, by the time it happens, it's over.

2:47:38 Speaker 4: But if you're out in a completely wilderness area where you've got you know, visual access to the stars and you're aware of that, and you're constantly aware of the presence of the sky, you're going to see much more of that kind of thing happening. Then if the cosmos decides to get a little bit more active, which it apparently does from time to time, suddenly the sky is now becomes a major factor in your existence, your tribal existence, your cultural existence, especially if in those episodes you have multiple fireball type events that could be on the scale of anywhere from cheli Abvience up to Tenguska.

2:48:19 Speaker 4: And that's what Clube and Napier, that's their scenario, is these clusters that.

2:48:25 Speaker 1: We enter episodes of bombardment when we are passing through a filament of the torrid media stream that's thick with heavy debris. Asteroids of a kilometer are more in diameter. When we enter those filaments, we are entering a period of episodic bombardment when human civilization is at risk. And according to their calculations.

2:48:44 Speaker 3: We are entering one of those filaments in the next thirty years Jesus.

2:48:47 Speaker 1: And that's why we need to pay attention to this, because thirty years is enough time to do something about it. If we apply the resources of our civilization to this, we can solve this problem.

2:48:58 Speaker 4: Let's look at a couple more pictures, because I'd like to get the picture of Graham.

2:49:02 Speaker 2: I want to people are too busy making new phones. They don't have time to fix the asteroid thing.

2:49:06 Speaker 3: Exactly.

2:49:07 Speaker 2: A phone well projects images and holograms.

2:49:10 Speaker 4: That's my, uh, my contention that it's going to take well.

2:49:13 Speaker 1: But again those the serious commercial talk of mining asteroids, that is that is the way into this that if they can, if they can, if they can see an economic return for them minute, then maybe they'll do the good thing actually for the human rights.

2:49:25 Speaker 2: Would this have to be a manned expedition like Bruce Willison, then asteroid movie not necessary. Okay, what's the image that want to show?

2:49:31 Speaker 4: Well, uh, Jamie, why don't you go to the folder of the one we open.

2:49:36 Speaker 2: That folder of awesomeness, the.

2:49:39 Speaker 4: Folder the folder of awesomeness. Yeah, just let's start with one zero zero seven.

2:49:46 Speaker 2: What are we going to look at here?

2:49:47 Speaker 4: Well, we're gonna look at some NASA stuff. Oh cool, And then we'll look at a couple of Google Earth things, and then we will look at some couple of US Geological Survey things, and then we'll look at some photographs five days worth. Okay, let's do it. We got okay, holy shit. This is an early one of the early NASA photographs taken from five hundred miles up back in the late seventies. Actually, and what we got here is the two big scabland tracts that show two of the big meltwater streams that have left their scars in the landscape.

2:50:22 Speaker 4: So each one of those varies roughly between ten and twenty miles wide, and the bigger one on the right is probably fifty to sixty miles long, or actually a little bit longer than that. But you can actually see that when the water swept down from the north out of British Columbia. It washed away two hundred feet roughly one to two hundred feet of the existing top soil. It had covered the basalt bedrock, right, basalt bedrock, by the way, that was originally formed by eruptions of the Yellowstone Caldera, interestingly.

2:50:56 Speaker 4: But so the water came down, swept away the the top soil and left the bare, dark basalt exposed down below. The feature that we just looked at is not even really in this NASA photograph. It's over to the west. But let's go ahead to the next one, Jamie with.

2:51:16 Speaker 2: The Snake River down there, which is where's the Snake River.

2:51:20 Speaker 4: Snake River comes up out of Idaho and it joins the Columbia and then flows out to the Pacific Ocean. All right, then we got a Google Earth image coming up. Okay, on order because there's just a lot.

2:51:35 Speaker 3: There's a lot in here.

2:51:36 Speaker 2: Oh, okay, tell me which number you and meal pull?

2:51:38 Speaker 3: Pull up?

2:51:39 Speaker 4: Will be one thousand and eight one zero zero eight.

2:51:41 Speaker 2: The next one, what's going on with our TV? It keeps going off and on that that TV is not really made for the way we use it, so it doesn't like the inputs and I just turned it off so I can pull up the next one.

2:51:51 Speaker 4: Okay, m M. There we go. So now we're getting actually a bigger view of the landscape. And you can see the two meltwaters. That's the scabland tracks here and here.

2:52:11 Speaker 2: Okay. And then you have what's called no one can hear you if you do this. Okay, just just tell me where it is.

2:52:16 Speaker 4: I get it. Okay. So there's the two scabland tracks right. Then you've got the Grand Coolie, which is that dark ribbon going up to Columbia River. There. Grand Cooley Dam is right almost you almost had it. It's where the Columbia River suddenly gets skinny. Right there, that's Grand Cooley Dam. That's the widest, the most massive concrete dam in North America. And it's impounding water in Franklin Dell and a Roosevelt Lake to about four hundred feet deep. Right now, all of the area at the top the glacier, the green mountainous area, this was all covered in ice.

2:52:49 Speaker 4: And then over to the left right there you have that brown area. And do you see the kind of semi circular arc of dark ground right there, Yes, that is where a tongue of the ice came out of Canada and it stopped right there. And when it receded, when it melted back, what it did was it left all this rubble that can't really be farmed effectively. This it's called till glacial till. And where the where the glacier ended, that's called more Moraine moraine. And you can see it's circular where the glacier came and then coming right off the snout of the glacier, do you see kind of a ribony.

2:53:28 Speaker 4: That's a giant scar in the landscape that was formed by a meltwater stream coming off of that ice sheet. It's called Moses ko Lee.

2:53:37 Speaker 1: Hey, Randal, I think we should keep in mind a lot of the audience aren't actually seeing the visuals on this. They're not, I mean, take the takeaway is that all across the Pacific Northwest is a landscape that has been utterly scarred and devastated by gigantic flood that took place twelve thousand. It's left its marks everywhere.

2:53:53 Speaker 2: And this is right near Cordelaine, So Cordaline is from that.

2:53:57 Speaker 4: It's the residue of this Cardlaine. Right now, if people go to the geocosmic rex website or the Sacred Geometry International website. They can see most of the images that we're showing.

2:54:07 Speaker 2: Well, they'll see it if they watch the YouTube video. They can watch it and hear you talk about it at the same time. It's just the vast majority, probably ninety percent of our seeing the visuals right now, but they can and probably will, so they can go.

2:54:20 Speaker 4: To that and watch it. You can look down way down on the lower left is the potholes cataract. Right, go up a little up along the river. Come down south south, keep coming, keep coming. Stop look to the right of the river. That's what we.

2:54:38 Speaker 3: Were just This man knows his landscapes to the right, to the.

2:54:43 Speaker 4: Right, to the right, Jamie say, how dare you? Yeah?

2:54:48 Speaker 2: This this whole area, So we get it, this whole every area has been absolutely unequivocally right.

2:54:55 Speaker 4: You see this, Joe, and you realize the scale of what we just looked at. And now you're seeing that within this whole landscape that was essentially inundated, You'll start to get the scale of the thing. And that's what I'm trying to do here. If you, Joe, can get the scale of this in your mind, I've accomplished something to.

2:55:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I got it from that one image that was a real mind blower.

2:55:17 Speaker 4: The ripples, Yeah, the ripple les.

2:55:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, well the ripples were a real mind blower. And then the other one with a farm land and then the massive channel cut into it.

2:55:25 Speaker 4: You kind of get it. Yeah, the ripples aren't even on this image there their way to the east.

2:55:30 Speaker 2: Has anybody sat down with you and tried to dispute this, I mean, the people that believe that this was a slow and gradual effect. Does anybody sat down and tried to debate you on this? No, this seems like something that would be really interesting to debate. I mean, I would love to see someone who's a geologist that you know, I'm sure there's someone out there that is listening to this that may have a.

2:55:51 Speaker 4: Dispute with it.

2:55:52 Speaker 3: Bet there is, I'm sure.

2:55:53 Speaker 4: But I would love to.

2:55:54 Speaker 2: I would love to see them talk to you about it and go over all the various things the nuclear glass that they find, the I.

2:56:04 Speaker 4: Mean, all of it, all the from the top. Here's the thing, Joe. At this point, nobody is connecting the work of the of the Comic Research Group with the Missoula flight effects that we're looking at or except us, except us.

2:56:16 Speaker 2: That's crazy. Most people are like, that's crazy. How is it possible?

2:56:19 Speaker 1: Because it's the most thing. It's it's such an obvious it's such an obvious connection, and it really merits expert just.

2:56:24 Speaker 2: Scares the shit out of me. What if you guys didn't exist. What if you guys were never born? What if you never wrote that book? What if you've never been freaking out about this ship your whole life?

2:56:32 Speaker 1: How would I know about many times that in the human story as this happened, where stuff has just not been explored that really needed.

2:56:39 Speaker 2: To That sounds crazy to something like a Michael Shermer to a skeptical person, Well.

2:56:43 Speaker 4: Say to Michael Shermer, come on, man, let's go spend a week out in that landscape.

2:56:47 Speaker 2: Well, he does want to debate you. He wants to sit down and debate you. All right, what can we set that up?

2:56:51 Speaker 3: We can set that up.

2:56:52 Speaker 4: I love it.

2:56:53 Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds that sounds like, yes.

2:56:56 Speaker 4: It would be a good time. Yeah. Well, in my mind, there's really no no arguing with this evidence. I mean, well two overwhelming and the question really comes down to at this point, nobody disputes that there were catastrophic floods. The question is what was the mechanism, how many were there, how long did it take? Was it a bunch of catastrophic but smaller floods, or was it back to Bretz's original model of one giant flood? And I think the truth actually lies somewhere between the two, and it again, the geology gets complicated, but I'm writing it up so I will explain in detail what my thoughts are.

2:57:35 Speaker 4: And after having crisscrossed thousands of miles of this landscape repeatedly and basically absorbed every piece of scientific literature every written on it, I've evolved some ideas about what could have happened here and how it happened.

2:57:50 Speaker 2: Well, I was a grown adult, and I've found out that North America, most of it was by you know, what was it, ten twelve thousand years ago, was covered by a mile high sheet of ice. Yes, But I was a grown adult and.

2:58:03 Speaker 3: Went all America roughly north of Minneapolis.

2:58:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was that's common knowledge, right, I mean, everybody knew that, anybody who's actually studied the history of it. But it never made it to my dopey head until I was a grown adult, and then I went, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute, what the idea in my mind that this whole thing was covered just twelve thousand years ago. That seems so incredibly recent.

2:58:26 Speaker 1: And by the way, that ice was more like two miles deep. Could consider the weight of those ice masses pressing down. I mean, anything that was there before the ice came down would have been ground to powder, and that as the ice cataclysmically melts, everything below it is washed away forever.

2:58:41 Speaker 2: It's like an eraser for the world.

2:58:44 Speaker 4: That's exactly. That's a great phrase, an eraser for the world. And that is the thing that so many of the skeptics haven't factored into their thinking when you're going, well, where's the evidence. Yeah, the evidence that you've got to understand is that we have to rethink the possibility of evidence once we know that there has been these erasers of the world that have transpired, and not just once, but I mean, what we're looking at here is probably the most severe events in the last five million years.

2:59:12 Speaker 4: And I have a reason for using that number five million.

2:59:14 Speaker 2: Well, it's the reason.

2:59:15 Speaker 4: Well, the reason is based upon the severity of the mass extinction. We have to go back five million years to find an extinction event of an equivalent level as what occurred at the Younger Dry.

2:59:28 Speaker 2: It's funny because what I would call a knee jerk skeptical person would always say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there anything more extraordinary than that image of those farmlands and that giant swath cut into the land.

2:59:40 Speaker 4: That's that is it?

2:59:43 Speaker 2: Yes, that's very right, pretty extraordinary. And then the core samples, the core samples that show this massive fluctuation of temperature we've looked at. Yeah, that coincides with the puling sides. Yes, yes, it's all there is it Obviously all leads even to someone like me, It leads to an event.

3:00:01 Speaker 1: And this cataclysmic episode immediately precedes the time when we've been told that civilization began. Yeah, that's the other point, which is really important. We have this huge punctuation mark, and then civilization suddenly starts to evolve.

3:00:14 Speaker 3: No, it was there before. This is a reinvention.

3:00:16 Speaker 2: Those hunter gatherers, like those people that you would watch in one of those shows where they survive in Alaska and watch those shows. Yes, those shows are great. Like life below zero. It's crazy assholes. Yet those people would make it. Those people would make it, and they would breed and they would carry on.

3:00:31 Speaker 4: What is that twelve? Oh you could just say it next day. I don't want to interrupt you, Joe.

3:00:38 Speaker 2: No worries, No worries.

3:00:39 Speaker 4: Look at this. Wow?

3:00:41 Speaker 2: Okay, So that to me, I'm looking at this after what you've told me. That looks like water that has sort of like receded and left these lines in the way.

3:00:48 Speaker 4: Think think of a bathtub ring after Joe. You get in here and you take a bath and the water is basically brown with sediment. You take tub rings.

3:01:01 Speaker 1: You even sediment in your tub, and you're quoting Genesis, and the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills were covered.

3:01:09 Speaker 2: Wow.

3:01:10 Speaker 4: Not because I'm, you know, trying to pump the biblical flood model are far from it. What I am trying to throw out pictures whenever I realize here's a great quote, and it doesn't matter where it's from, because there's so many flood legends you can quote from.

3:01:22 Speaker 1: Well, the Biblical flood model is that it is one of those myths, is one of those traditions that have come to one of thousands of traditions that speak of this, the whole ancestral memory of the human race is telling us that something terrible happened.

3:01:36 Speaker 2: It's also very unfortunate that all that's all connected with an ideology that a lot of people find problematic.

3:01:42 Speaker 4: Like that.

3:01:42 Speaker 2: There's the issues with that being you know, religion of course, cult or this faith based belief.

3:01:47 Speaker 3: We must have immediately.

3:01:48 Speaker 1: Realized the flood is not the property of the monotheistic religions. The flood is found in every culture on earth.

3:01:54 Speaker 2: Also in that a lot of these stories you're talking about massive translations from ancient Hebrew to last and the Greek, and a lot is lost in the process, and that you're dealing with a lot of these stories were handed down from generation and generation for like what was it like a thousand years before the first version was ever ribsolutely absolutely so all that's I mean, that is unbelievably fascinating.

3:02:16 Speaker 4: Go to Oney fourteen one zero one four and we'll see a topographic map.

3:02:24 Speaker 2: Ah yeah, whoa. Now that you know, it's like it's crazy. It's like it's something just like you had a sand castle or some flat sand set up, and a wave came in and cut through it and then pulled back.

3:02:41 Speaker 4: The wave came from the north and it swept down over the landscape and basically carved and plucked and quarried and gouged and gashed that landscape. And this is one of the places Graham and I went. If you look right in there, you'll see where it says Grand part of Grand Cooley g R A and D right there with the d is. We have a great video clip online of me and Graham. We're looking at this actual topo map right here and then surveying the cataract around us. You'll also notice that there's a rock blade just like similar to the one that we just saw in the drone footage.

3:03:17 Speaker 4: You see the rock blade and you recognize the alcoves. Now, yeah, and if we go to the next one, we have a Google Earth image of oneenty fifteen of this feature and there's the Google Earth image and for scale in the upper left hand I've superimposed Niagara Falls at the same scale, so you can see by comparison. Wow, have you been to Niagara Falls? Joe?

3:03:49 Speaker 2: I went when I was a little kid. Okay, honestly, don't remember I think I went when I was a little kid. I'll have to check with my mom. It's impressive to see it.

3:03:56 Speaker 4: But the point here is that anybody looking at this, and you know, if the folks look at the imagery online, is that one of the biggest waterfalls in the world one Niagara? Yeah, not in terms of volumes of the African or something, yeah, or South American maybe Victoria Falls. It depends, you know, the highest or the greatest volume. It's about two hundred thousand, between one hundred and fifty and two hundred thousand cubic feet per second going over those falls, depending on the flow of the river.

3:04:25 Speaker 4: But the flow that came through here was about three hundred and fifty million cubic feet per second. And left this and yeah, if you're going line on the geocosmic rex website, there's a video clip of me and Graham down there just by Perch Lake.

3:04:42 Speaker 2: Ask your question here. Yeah, Now, if the water that was creating Grand Canyon or the Niagara falls rather right up there, if that all receded and we could see the bottom, wouldn't it look similar to what you're seeing.

3:04:54 Speaker 4: Here, the one of Grand Canyon.

3:04:57 Speaker 2: No excuse me with Niaga Falls right there right above it there, Yes, it would, but on a smaller scale, on a smaller scale, but like on a smaller scale, like some of the smaller features that you see right there, right Yeah.

3:05:07 Speaker 4: And that's the thing you were saying, it's fractal. The interesting thing about water erosion and sedimentation is it's scale invariant, so you can look at features and coming up into pictures. Here, I've got a beautiful example of scale invariants where you see the small version in the large version, and it's exactly the same thing. That's why if you go into any geology text, they've always got something in the photographs like a rock pick or a person standing there. Otherwise it's hard to get a sense of the scale of what you're looking at.

3:05:35 Speaker 4: Right.

3:05:36 Speaker 2: So my question though, was that if that's the case, if you could drain Niagara Falls and it would have a similar feature set to what you're seeing on the ground there. Well, we know that Niagara Falls has been doing that for a long long time.

3:05:48 Speaker 1: Two thousand years of work of the river at Niagara Falls. Right here, you're looking at a moment in time that unfolded in a few weeks.

3:05:55 Speaker 2: Right, But how do we know that?

3:05:56 Speaker 4: Well, for one thing, to scale of it? Because if because another words, how long would it take Niagara to carve something on this scale? If it's taken Niagara ten thousand years, say, to carve that, how long would it take an equivalent flow to carve this?

3:06:13 Speaker 2: But it would look like if you drained it, though, what would it look like in equivalent to any of these things right here?

3:06:18 Speaker 4: For one thing, it's not basalt bedrock, so you're not going to see quite the same type of erosion because really, what you what you've got to consider is that all different rock types arow differently. Also, you know what happens is you have regimes of flow, so that what you have in Niagara today is a lower flow regime which doesn't have anywhere near the type of turbulence or erosive potential is when you get water moving at fifty or sixty miles an hour. One reason we definitely can know that this is the case is because we see the association with the giant current ripples.

3:06:53 Speaker 4: We see the boulders that have been plucked and quarried, and some of them are forty and fifty feet in diameter. You say, and we'll look at some of those coming up in the next picture.

3:07:04 Speaker 2: Do you have that image that you were talking about before of that one gigantic boulder that was carried on the.

3:07:09 Speaker 4: It's coming up. If we move quickly through here, we'll get to it. So go to Oney seventeen and that'll be from the ground view again with Niagara Falls superimposed for scale, the Horseshoe Falls, the Canadian Falls superimposed for scale. Now, basically that cataracted Horseshoe Falls is about one hundred and twenty feet in height. The cliff wall of this giant cataract is about four hundred feet high. And then you see the beginning of the blade rock out there, and the full extent of the thing actually goes all the way to the horizon, but we can't see that beyond there.

3:07:49 Speaker 4: But this erosion goes all the way to the horizon.

3:07:51 Speaker 2: That cut into stone, that cut.

3:07:53 Speaker 4: Into basalt, hard columnar basalt that was extruded basically with the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera long fifteen million years ago basically, but then covered up by a couple hundred feet of lust top soil, and then that was exposed when the floods came through. Go to the next oneenty and eighteen and you'll see an example of some of the debris that was left behind by the floodwaters when they finally ceased. There's the stuff that you're looking at now. The bigger stuff there is thirty and forty feet Those would be like four story buildings down there, So.

3:08:34 Speaker 2: Those are just washed away by this gigantic river.

3:08:37 Speaker 4: That's just this right, This massive gigantic river moving fifty sixty miles an hour, sweeps through there, plucks and tears the bedrock, and then when the spigots finally get turned off, the water starts subsiding, and this stuff that's being carried in there just gets left into wake, just like you're going to see any modern, smaller flood is going to leave material in its wake. The difference is this ceial is piles of boulders the size of houses, gravel bars two and three hundred feet thick and three miles long, and they're all in it.

3:09:09 Speaker 4: So see, here's the answer to your question is and this is how Bretts finally did it was by showing that it was the full suite of evidence taken integrally that created a picture that was undeniable. To the skeptics. It was just it was overwhelming because it was every piece fit together too perfectly, and there was no other explanation other than gigantic hydraulic events. And now it's a question of the detail, what caused them? How long did it take? And you know that's where the controversy is.

3:09:41 Speaker 2: Now, this is amazing, it's amazing and terrifying. But what's cool about it is it's terrifying. But everything's okay right now.

3:09:50 Speaker 4: Everything's okay right now, right now.

3:09:51 Speaker 2: So well, it's like you feel like I'll be fine, but maybe not if something like this happens again.

3:09:57 Speaker 4: Well, you have to ask what could be the change, you know, in the human orientation to life on this planet. Like, for example, I remember the First Earth Day nineteen seventy, right when this consciousness about, hey, you know what, our existence on this planet is having an effect on this planet, right and at that point you see this whole environmental consciousness emerge that didn't exist before that. Right. Well, I think maybe in the next decade or two we're going to see a new environmental consciousness that involves the recognition that this planet we live on is a very dynamic place and has been so and is the key to deciphering a lot of mysteries geological, cultural, historical, and paleontological, biological, et cetera.

3:10:44 Speaker 4: That this has been a dominant factor in the evolution of basically everything that's been going on on this planet, whether you're looking at millions of years or thousands of years.

3:10:55 Speaker 2: It's it's such a strange time to be alive or all this stuff coming together, All this information is being exposed, and.

3:11:06 Speaker 1: A hippen archive has been broken open and the stuff is spilling out, and you don't know whether you've.

3:11:13 Speaker 3: Opened Pandora's books by letting it out.

3:11:15 Speaker 2: But it's all logical and all logically so easy to follow. It's all I mean, it seems like when it comes.

3:11:21 Speaker 4: To like a step by step two nine.

3:11:23 Speaker 2: One zero two nine, coming up one zero two nine, I feel like I'm a bingo guy.

3:11:28 Speaker 4: Now this we're we traveled about five hundred miles south out onto the Utah Canyon. It's beautiful and what you're seeing there is basically dry cataracts. Now that you've seen these cataracts, you can begin to recognize them all over the place. Now this has not been acknowledged as being a cataract. But what you actually see when you look at the modern erosion is that these features are being slowly eroded and eaten away by the modern erosion, and it's a different erosional regime al together. It creates features like this, and this is a vast scale of erosion here.

3:12:05 Speaker 4: And when you travel over the southwest, that is the most striking thing that you're gonna experience if you're you know, in empathic with the landscape, which is that there's been this enormous amount of erosion. Now, I'm not saying that this enormous amount of erosion was all created by one flood, but I think what it is possibly saying is that when we go back over several million years, gigantic floods on this scale aren't that exceptional. That there's something that from time to time. And see here's the thing, this is completely removed from the glaciers.

3:12:38 Speaker 4: Any water that would have eroded this landscape was not coming from the glaciers. It had to have been coming from rainfall. If you go to the next slide, Jamie one thom which.

3:12:46 Speaker 1: Is which is not a disconnected element because because of the massive rain now that that resulted from the impacts on the ice cap.

3:12:55 Speaker 2: What's this?

3:12:56 Speaker 4: This is Vallas Calderas. This is the largest volcanic caldera North America. Oh, it's eleven miles across. Oh. And here's what it was born out of a catastrophe millions of years ago, right, and then subsequent eruptions over hundreds of thousands of years have left this feature. But what's interesting to us here is what happened around twelve thousand years ago. The entire caldera filled up suddenly. And if you look at right about if you look at it as a clock, at about eight o'clock, you can see a breach a valley coming off.

3:13:29 Speaker 4: You see that, Jamie, can you? Yeah? Right there? That was the spillover. So at the same time, now get this, at the same window of time that these flood events are happening up in Washington and Idaho and Montana, this caldera suddenly fills up with water and the water spills over the rim and cuts a canyon hundreds of feet deep. Now, what could cause that to suddenly fill up with water and it's completely removed. It's not receiving glacial meltwater. There's only one thing by default, and that would be rainfall, a lot of rainfall falling over days and days at a time.

3:14:08 Speaker 4: So if you go to the next slide, we'll see what sits down in the bottom of this valley is thousands of these gigantic rolled boulders. And you know that they're water transported because they're round, they're rolled. That's what water does. It rolls these things. Now this is in New Mexico, see, so this is related to the spillway, the overflow of Allis Caldera, which has been dated to that same interval when the floods were happening up north, the same interval that now the comet is dating to. Is this coincidence or are the two related.

3:14:44 Speaker 4: I would say it would be very premature to dismiss it and say that they're not related, because, as Graham just said, one of the consequences of an impact, whether it's into the ocean or the ice sheet, is you're going to have extreme amounts of water vapor inject did catastrophically into the atmosphere, which is then going to rain out in incredible torrential downpours that might last for days at a time. And along with that water vapor is a tremendous amount of particulate mass.

3:15:14 Speaker 1: And it's that rain out that I would say caused the erosion on the Sphinx and tells us that the Sphinx is twelve thousand years old.

3:15:20 Speaker 2: Not, you guys are freaking me out. This is amazing. This is the most convincing argument yet that you guys have ever made for this. Well, it's all been convincing. This is this is more compelling than all the pieces that come together.

3:15:40 Speaker 4: Yeah. No, Then next slide, Jamie, which would be two thousand and thirty two, which is to me a beautiful example of scale invariance. Here we have the modern Snake River flowing in the modern channel, and then we have the ancient flood channel and which you can see there. The average annual discharge of the Snake fifty six nine hundred cubic feet, but the estimated flood that created the big channel is forty million cubic feet. And now this flood actually was coming up. Get this out of Utah. It was coming up.

3:16:14 Speaker 4: It was part of the giant Lake Bonneville, of which the Great Salt Lake is but a diminutive remnant. So the Bonneville salt flats. Bonnaville salt Flats were the bottom of this gigantic lake that filled the basins of northeastern Utah, and at the end of the Last Ice Age it suddenly filled up very rapidly and spilled over a mountain pass to the north and then flooded the south the Snake River Plain of southern Idaho. And anybody can see the Snake River Plain if you go to Google Earth or any topographic map, and it cut channels like this that ultimately led to the Columbia River.

3:16:52 Speaker 4: But interestingly, the dating of this puts it again right in that window, So.

3:16:58 Speaker 1: That window of hundred and eleven, six hundred years ago when everything changes.

3:17:03 Speaker 4: Yes, everything changes, And so what I'm showing he is just a little bit selecting random almost dots to show you that no matter where you look, you're going to see evidence of these of these events imprinted into the landscape. Yeah, go to the next slide, Oney thirty three, and if you go down and you stand on that floodplain down there, you'll see the kind of stuff that got left behind. This is the sediment load being carried into flood. Wow, so you got what kind of powerful currents are necessary to transport.

3:17:39 Speaker 4: And I'm standing in the canyon that was cut by the flood. Those walls are four hundred feet high.

3:17:44 Speaker 2: So what we would think of as being like little pebbles at the bottom of a stream and it gets moved around, yes, like grand scale.

3:17:51 Speaker 4: This is like sand grains on the bottom of a modern little creek but or river.

3:17:56 Speaker 3: Except that humongous boulders.

3:17:57 Speaker 4: Yes, and this is what a geologist geo morphologists would call the bedload, the stuff being swept along in the flood waters, being rolled and tumbled.

3:18:06 Speaker 2: And the geologists recognize this, but they think it took mainstream gey illis think it took a long pier.

3:18:12 Speaker 1: No.

3:18:12 Speaker 4: I mean the few geological papers that have been written on this admit that it was like one big catastrophic flood.

3:18:19 Speaker 2: Wow. And what is their explanation for that catastrophic flood.

3:18:22 Speaker 4: Well that somehow Lake Bonneville rose up and say, breached a pass on its northern rim. But you know, is that possible in any way? Well, yeah, if you have enough rainfall prolonged over a period of time days or weeks, that the whole body of water could have raised by three hundred feet roughly and then it.

3:18:42 Speaker 1: But you again, you would need something like the comet impact to provide you with a source for that rainfall.

3:18:47 Speaker 4: Right, because otherwise there's no other explanation for that kind of rainfall. And it's known from the modeling of oceanic impacts that yes, there would be unbelievable rain out in the aftermath of an oceanic impact, and the same thing would follow in the wake of an ice impact.

3:19:04 Speaker 2: What oceanic impacts that we have on record.

3:19:06 Speaker 4: Only a few of them. There's one up by Sweden.

3:19:10 Speaker 1: We were discussing also the possible Indian Ocean impact, possibly the ocean five thousand years ago, which which creates tsunamis on both sides of the Indian Ocean dated to about massive massive tsunami disposit deposits. And again this whole argument of the younger dry Ass cataclysm between twelve thousand, eight hundred and eleven thousand, six hundred years ago. The strongest case is the focus of the science has been on twelve thousand, eight hundred years ago, but there's a lot of interest in the eleven thousand, six hundred years ago as well, and the strongest suggestion of what caused that that sudden rise in temperatures accompanied by meltwater pulse.

3:19:48 Speaker 1: Well one B was a second encounter with more fragments of the debris of the comet, this time the impacts not being on the North American ice cap, but in a major ocean, probably the Pacific. And that then puts a huge plume of water vapor into the upper atmosphere and shrouds the Earth and creates the greenhouse effect that accounts for the radical rise in temperature that occurred eleven thousand, six hundred years ago. More science needs to be done on that. It's another reason why I want to see the Comet Research Group funded, because this is this is important work.

3:20:22 Speaker 2: God damn, it is an awesome podcast. This might be my all time favorite.

3:20:27 Speaker 4: Woo. Okay, we'll talk at about half a dozen more. Yeah, for sure, let's roll okay one thirty nine and this is here. Now you'll be able to see actually a person in the field of view next to on a giant current ripple. And there's a giant that's a giant current ripple field. We did see this one, Graham. This is the West bar. Yes, if you go back one slide, we can see an aerial photo I took years ago of West Bar It's three mile long. There it is Whoa and there's an airport down the lighter colored buffs of it is a landing strip, and the airport building there is three stories tall.

3:21:13 Speaker 4: So this whole feature is three miles long. And the ripples here are on the same scale as the canvas prairie ripples that we just looked at. Of course, this is in central Washington. The other one was in Montana. So again you as we begin to place these event nodes around on the map, we can begin to see the outlines of a really really huge event. And all of this is going on at the same time. All this is dated to the same time. All this is dated to the same time that you think the impact took place, and it's all over that coast.

3:21:46 Speaker 4: The only dates that we have that are hard dates are a volcanic ash primarily from Mount Saint Helens the date at thirteen thousand years. But they use that as a baseline and then assume that there were multiple floods and each flood was separated by fifty to one hundred years. And what they've done is they've gone from Brenx's original model of a single flood into a dozen floods, into forty floods, and now up to eighty or ninety floods, which I disagree with. But on the other hand, there were See I think you have to understand this in two phases, because the impact phase is going to melt a whole lot of ice all of a sudden, but it's not going to melt all of it.

3:22:27 Speaker 4: It's going to leave a huge amount of residual ice in the aftermath. Now, what we see is that, particularly after the eleven thousand, six hundred year ago event, at that point, the whole planet comes right out of the ice age inexplicably. Let's the end of the is that's the end of the ice Age, the beginning of the Holocene. It's over. And basically what we're seeing there is that there is a great deal of heat suddenly that's brought the planet out of the ice age. It does not convert revert back into the ice age like it did at the twelve thy nine hundred event.

3:23:01 Speaker 4: See. So what we then have is that in the aftermath of this event, the whole climate of the Earth has been completely altered, The whole balance of nature has been completely altered from before these events to after these events. But what you have now is a lot of residual ice that takes about two or three thousand years to melt away.

3:23:22 Speaker 3: So same levels continue to rise, Sea levels.

3:23:24 Speaker 4: Continue or to rise, and the melting of this ice produces some pretty big floods, but not on the scale of what we're looking at here. And I think it's my personal opinion that there's a confusion between the two different flood regimes. And I'm going to document all that. I'm writing all this up in details as a as a thesis to explain my interpretation of the phenomena over twenty years. But let's go to that would be so important.

3:23:54 Speaker 2: I would love to see people really go over this with a fine tooth comb because it's so compelling. It's just so amazing. Like just this image itself is just wow. What would what kind of power and force would it take to create those rebels, those fifty foot high ripples all over the place, miles and miles and miles of them.

3:24:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you see nothing since that event has really affected them. They're still sitting there as these gigantic, monstrous fossil features in the landscape.

3:24:21 Speaker 2: Now when they do course amples on that stuff, what do they find out, like as far as the dating of it, Like if they get to the bottom of one of those ripples, well you've.

3:24:28 Speaker 4: Got to find you've got to be able to find organic material in there, and to the extent that there's organic material, it basically all dates from the end of the ice age. The problem is is when you have a flood like this coming through, it's sweeping up everything in its path, including forests and animals. So if you've got a bone in there or a piece of wood, that doesn't necessarily mean when the flood happened.

3:24:51 Speaker 3: It's not a nice layer of layers of sediment. It's a jumble, messed out of it.

3:24:56 Speaker 4: Chaotic, chaotic mass.

3:24:58 Speaker 2: It's not like you could just go dig into the side of that hill at that same level and find something that's organic and absolutely dated to that because that's all stone.

3:25:06 Speaker 4: Right right, it's boulders. If you saw a cross section of one of those ripples, it's just a jumbled, chaotic mess of everything from the finest sand and silt up to boulders the size of cars and even houses and stuff. Just yeah, that's so crazy. Go to ten forty one, and we'll see an interesting artist renditioned by Edward Rial who did all the illustrations for the Jewels original Jules Verne books, and he did a version for a geology text. What was it? Guy's name is skipping me right now, but I thought it was an interesting image because it basically shows an event on the scale of what we're talking about.

3:25:47 Speaker 4: And what's interesting here is you see that the torrents are carrying icebergs, and in this one iceberg in the foreground, I call it Graham's Rock. From now on, it's going to be I have officially named it.

3:26:00 Speaker 2: Because it's carrying a gigantic red and.

3:26:02 Speaker 4: I or we're talking about it. It's now what's Graham?

3:26:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, because I went and climbed that one.

3:26:06 Speaker 4: No longer right, the Graham erratic.

3:26:10 Speaker 3: Oh I'm on edge, thank you.

3:26:12 Speaker 4: Okay, So we got the Graham rati coming up in about three images, So let's go to the next one. Ten forty two, and this is basically another key piece of evidence. Is strewn for thousands of square miles throughout the path of the flood. You have these gigantic boulders and these are being carried aboard icebergs.

3:26:31 Speaker 2: So let me let me describe what we're looking at right now, because there's a person, is that you there?

3:26:35 Speaker 4: I took the picture. So it's two of my fellow travelers.

3:26:39 Speaker 2: Okay, normal sized people and you know whatever, six feet tall and bounce them on top of each other. Twelve eighteen. You're looking at probably at least thirty five forty feet tall, right, yeah, yeah, and.

3:26:54 Speaker 4: Wider wider than it is tall. Oh yeah, sixty feet wide. That's insane. And that was by water. It was carried, it was carried on icebergs in the water. Oh my god.

3:27:05 Speaker 3: So this flood, this flood is not just water. It's it's it's a huge thousands of icebergs. It's strips up by their roots. It's a jumbling mass of powerful erosive flow.

3:27:16 Speaker 2: Amazing.

3:27:17 Speaker 4: Thousands of megafauna are done out. In fact, a lot of there have been a lot of uh, mammoth remains found in Missoula flood sediments, particularly in the Willamte Valley. Okay, let's go to the next image. Here we go. This is like out in the middle of the prairie. Again, you got thousands of these things.

3:27:36 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'm a chicken. I wouldn't stand right there. I think that thing's going to roll on top of you. That would be a wrap son. Yeah, this is known as jaeger raw. That thing's huge and is that you want to meet there?

3:27:48 Speaker 4: No, that's one of my dry took the pictures down there. Yeah, I said stand here, and then I had the other guys go around the back rocket push on it.

3:27:57 Speaker 2: This thing is kind of hanging off the side of that hill the way some of those Hollywood Hills houses are, uh huh, the ones that are on stilts.

3:28:03 Speaker 4: To see that rounded mass of stuff that's sitting in it's called a berg mound. And you see, these icebergs are not clean ice. They're dirty. They're filled with gravel and debris. So when a berg, when a burg that's being carried into flood and the flood waters subside, the burgs get stranded in the land. They then melt, and if there's no boulder, there's just a mound. If there's no gigantic boulder, there's just a mound. But if there is a gigantic boulder being carried aboard the iceberg, it will be sitting in a burg mound like you see right now.

3:28:34 Speaker 4: That's amazing.

3:28:35 Speaker 2: So that white line that we see is where the iceberg was when it deposited, that thing that it just melted from there.

3:28:41 Speaker 4: No, that's actually a bedding plane between two different kinds of basalt. Oh. Okay.

3:28:46 Speaker 2: So the mound itself below it is what you're saying, is the burg mound.

3:28:50 Speaker 4: That's the Burg mound and the boulder, the big boulder was the cargo sitting on top of the icebergh.

3:28:56 Speaker 2: Okay, So the burg is not just water. It's water with a bunch of dirt and all kinds of other shit in as well. Yeah, and so when it melts, that's what it leaves behind.

3:29:04 Speaker 4: That's what it leaves behind.

3:29:05 Speaker 2: Ye see, that's amazing.

3:29:07 Speaker 4: Okay. In the next image we have the handcocker. Is that you up there?

3:29:12 Speaker 3: Well, that's me on top of that breaking law. Yeah, I was. I do that from time to time.

3:29:21 Speaker 1: It but it it's it's an amazing experience to stand there and to think what transported this Well we know it was transported in an iceberg, and it was dumped there on the side of that valley, and it's just the thought of thousands of these things plowing along at sixty or seventy miles an hour carried on a gigantic flood. How do we have anything left? You know, no wonder, no wonder, we've forgotten our past.

3:29:43 Speaker 4: And see and here's the thing, I mean, what we're doing here is we're looking where these flood events are preserved the most spectacularly. And the reason is is because you had a very steep gradient from the ice sheet elevation to the Pacific Ocean. But like Graham and I, when we traveled across, we traveled across the Continental Divide and traveled from the Rocky Mountains to the Twin Cities, which is on the Mississippi River, and all the way across we were caught crossing huge meltwater coolies.

3:30:11 Speaker 4: We crossed the Missouri River Valley, which is an underfit stream just very similar to the Snake, where the modern Missouri is just a little ribbon of river occupying this massive meltwater channel of which there are hundreds across the plains. And then when we got to Minneapolis, we went up and we visited some of the largest known.

3:30:29 Speaker 1: Pot amazing potholes, which again you're looking on the scale of giants. This is this is beyond imagination what you look at and the only this the flood explanation makes sense of it.

3:30:42 Speaker 4: To go to one zero five to four Jamie, and you'll see there we go. I'm down inside the pothole, one of the potholes, looking up at Graham.

3:30:54 Speaker 2: So that's a pothole carved into stone by whirlpools.

3:30:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, rocks in them, and the rocks are the erosive agent that's cutting out the pothole.

3:31:05 Speaker 4: Just think like a massive hydraulic drill. Wow, just picking up, you know, coarse rock and then just drilling, literally drilling holes fifty sixty eighty feet.

3:31:16 Speaker 2: Deep again the rock. Go to the YouTube please, if you're listening to this, just go. You gotta fast forward to this. This is insane. This image is insane. Just thinking of watching rocks spin around, drilling into the ground. And you're talking about over a short period of time.

3:31:32 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, probably you know, I'm guessing you know these giant meltwater floods. This is right along the Saint Croix River, which forms the border between Minnesota and Wisconsin. It was probably of several weeks duration at its peak. At its peak, and so the drilling of the bed rock probably was accomplished within that time span.

3:31:53 Speaker 2: What I wouldn't give to know what that was like just to see it.

3:31:58 Speaker 4: Well, you'd have had to be in orbit to survive.

3:32:00 Speaker 2: It, right, Yeah, even if you're flying over in a plane. Probably just the atmosphere change.

3:32:05 Speaker 4: Listen, on top of these flood sediments from I've documented it from Ohio to Washington State, there are thick layers of LUSS. Now, LUSS is this strange top soil that came down and it's they've been arguing for generations. Is it wind deposited or water deposited? But the curious thing is it seems to be both wind and water deposited. But I think the obvious explanation for it is is that when you see the like the top layers of the flood sediments, particularly in the back flood regions where where the water was calmer rather than so torrential, you see these layers, these beautiful they're called rhythm mites.

3:32:47 Speaker 4: They're very rhythmical. On top of that is a layer of this lust top soil with this vertical structure right well to me, and again without getting into the technical background, I think the logical explanation and most likely explanation is that at the tail end of the final flood flows, what you're seeing is a rainfall of mud. And this rainfall of mud came down.

3:33:12 Speaker 1: Which many ancient traditions speak of black pituminous rain, mud falling.

3:33:16 Speaker 3: From the sky, darkness, a time of darkness.

3:33:20 Speaker 1: It's all described in the myth The myths are the memory banks of humanity. We should not call them myths, we should call them memories.

3:33:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And again this, this muddy rainfall, perfectly fits the whole narrative. And again with the mythology, it's right there.

3:33:37 Speaker 2: When we think of these the idea of these tsunamis we think of water that you can see, we're most likely dealing with the entire air around you, filled with torrential downpour and solid matter and everything's flying through.

3:33:48 Speaker 3: The air slurry, incredible winds.

3:33:51 Speaker 4: Incredible winds.

3:33:53 Speaker 2: Yes, so it's both wind and water and just full on chaos, super hurricanes.

3:33:58 Speaker 4: It's it's nature on chaotic and crazy on ultimate steroids.

3:34:03 Speaker 2: Wow, this is what it is, so wild.

3:34:06 Speaker 4: And it's real. That's the thing. This happened while people were alive. Oh yeah, it happened while people were alive.

3:34:11 Speaker 3: Absolutely happened. No, it happened a blink of an eye ago. It happened.

3:34:16 Speaker 1: It happened when anatomically modern humans had already been around for two years.

3:34:21 Speaker 3: Well no, but not according to the orthodox historians.

3:34:24 Speaker 1: But if we're dealing with a loss of civilization, which I believe to be the case, then yes.

3:34:28 Speaker 2: It totally makes sense. Completely, totally makes sense.

3:34:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's time. It's time to get to grips with this.

3:34:35 Speaker 1: It's time to move move forward to the next level and start recovering our memory.

3:34:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also start recognizing that this is this is a potential reality. Yeah, this is not just the past, this is the future, very possible.

3:34:48 Speaker 1: And and again, if I may say so, crowdfunding it's the opportunity for the people to give their voice.

3:34:56 Speaker 3: Can you show that page.

3:34:57 Speaker 1: This is the crowdfunding page for the Comet Research Group and it's.

3:35:02 Speaker 2: On and the link is on Graham Hanks there it is.

3:35:05 Speaker 1: So if you go to Grahamhancock dot com and click on the Comet Research Group banner, then you'll you'll get taken immediately to the crowdfunding plage. Please please support it whatever you can give, it'll make all the difference. It sends a message that we that we care about alternative heretical research. And also, while you're at my website, I put up there a lot of other follow ups to this podcast. If people want to go places I'm talking in America in the next weeks, yes, and links and connections.

3:35:34 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff related to this podcast is on my site.

3:35:37 Speaker 4: I'd like to plug my DVD that has a lot of these images on it, okay, and it's about five hours of stuff Blu ray. And if they go to the website Sacred Geometry International, do you have that available as a download? It's going to be if it's not already, Yeah, yeah it is. I think it is available for a download.

3:35:54 Speaker 2: My laptop doesn't even don't know nobody, Yeah, nobody does anymore.

3:35:57 Speaker 4: The answer is yes, okay. If it's not now it be. I think it is actually now available for get it on iTunes or Amazon or something. And it's hours of stuff. But I get into a lot of other stuff. The some of the interesting sidelines, the archaeo astronomy and the Sacred geometry and so forth. It might be associated with ancient cultures and what's the name of this again, cosmic patterns and cycles of catastrophe beautiful and there it is. Yeah, that's the older version. This is the newer, upgraded version.

3:36:28 Speaker 4: All right, yeah, there we go, there we go beautiful and there's the Blu ray. Yeah, there's the Blu ray. Yeah.

3:36:34 Speaker 2: Okay, so NHD download excellent.

3:36:37 Speaker 4: There it is.

3:36:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, gentlemen, this has been a long, long podcast of awesomeness. Man, this cemented in my head. I mean the idea was already cemented in my head, but these images, along with your compelling narrative, is cemented even further. This is amazing, such a cool podcast and magics to entertain and scare the shit out of me at the same time. So thank you for that. Graham. It's a Graham underscore Hancock on Twitter.

3:37:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, Graham, double underscore, hand culled, but double underscore.

3:37:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. They made it really difficult to reach me on Twitter, but it is there. And then you know, I've got my Facebook page and my website is the main portal, Graham Hancock dot com. Everything comes off there. My book, my events and all kinds are.

3:37:20 Speaker 2: You've verified on Twitter, so they know which one to follow.

3:37:22 Speaker 1: You know, I'm verified on Facebook, but they haven't verified me on Twitter. Dare you you know, I got one hundred thousand followers there, but they haven't they haven't verified me, but I'm me, I am me.

3:37:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, Randall, how much do you pay attention to social media at all the time of time?

3:37:37 Speaker 4: I'll immerse myself into it for a few days as much as I can take, and then I got to back off for a while.

3:37:44 Speaker 2: Well, you're going to get a flood of questions about this one because this was awesome and really, thank you so much. I'm so so thankful and honored to know you guys, because to me, this is uh. I mean, the ultimate thing for me on this podcast is to be able to have people that are talking about things that I find absolutely captivating. And you, guys, I think what you're doing is so important.

3:38:06 Speaker 1: You're playing a huge role, Joe, in opening people's minds to unthinkable thoughts all around the world, stuff that people have been told they are not allowed to think about. Your your show is opening doors that I've never been opened before.

3:38:18 Speaker 2: Stumbled into it.

3:38:19 Speaker 4: I don't know what happened. I would like to get you out in the field.

3:38:23 Speaker 2: I would like to get out on the field because I want to see that stuff. Yeah, that's what I want to go to Washington State.

3:38:28 Speaker 4: Let's do it.

3:38:28 Speaker 2: Let's set something up and make a video.

3:38:30 Speaker 4: I want to go there. I want to see that. Let's do it.

3:38:31 Speaker 2: That looks this is young Jamie. You in Jamie's in all right. Thank you so much, everybody, see you soon.