Lue Elizondo: Just a Man? A Myth? Or a legend? Modern Day UFO disclosure

0:00 Speaker 1: Look here, here's the bottom money, guys. It's it's very simple. Either A the reality is that UAP are here, or B this is some form of mass hysteria. And if it is mass hysteria, that means you have admirals, generals, trained pilots with top secret clearances, weapons officers, air force nuclear technicians literally with their fingers on the nuclear button.

0:19 Speaker 2: Yeah right, that are all batch crazy Luise Alexander, Alexander.

0:24 Speaker 1: Lou alexandoon.

0:27 Speaker 3: What is going on?

0:27 Speaker 2: As aliens?

0:29 Speaker 1: We call them UAPs, non human na tried.

0:31 Speaker 2: Tic tac, black cube, jellyfish, red triangular crafte. That's nuts.

0:36 Speaker 4: You can't stop the United pilot from posting a ticked off.

0:39 Speaker 2: The white lettering under interference syndrome injuries and what's going on there?

0:44 Speaker 1: I'll have to be carefully sing qu are we ready to tell the American people the truth about you have heard ahead?

1:03 Speaker 4: Hey?

1:03 Speaker 5: Brother?

1:04 Speaker 1: Are you man?

1:07 Speaker 5: So?

1:07 Speaker 1: I still.

1:09 Speaker 4: After you?

1:10 Speaker 1: Hey? Gent by the way, you're not gonna leave this this gentleman here, mister hill I was living here in Washington, d C. In nineteen fifty two doing the things UFO incident here over Washington, and he was he just picked it up right now and and his father were sitting on the front porch.

1:25 Speaker 6: He actually witnessed the UFO event here over the Capitol Building.

1:28 Speaker 1: One of the last few people that I know that I actually can tell the story.

1:32 Speaker 2: We got an interview.

1:33 Speaker 1: I literally just met him right now, but about ten minutes ago. You know that this guy is Yeah.

1:39 Speaker 3: I didn't do to face when he came to the til.

1:40 Speaker 1: I said, no, no, know what you say. You know, I told him he should have.

1:44 Speaker 2: Just turned me away. First off, I want to give a huge thanks to delete me for sponsoring today's video. Today's guest is the man behind modern UFO. Disclosure him or love him. There's a high chance you wouldn't even be thinking or talking about UFOs right now if it weren't for this man and his work over the last eight years.

2:10 Speaker 1: What's it like to be me? I wouldn't want anybody to have to be me. I don't want to be me in this particular case, because it's very tough. You're right. Half of the government hates what I've done. They consider it talking at a school, and of course you're right, half the public doesn't know what to think, right am. I disinformation agent? I got all these things around here from various intelligence agencies, right, I can't be trusted.

2:36 Speaker 2: No way.

2:38 Speaker 1: How you doing, sir, Nice to meet you. Oh my god, I'm living. I actually geek it out for like the first time ever. Sorry, your name Nate, Nate. Nice to meet you, sir. Sure if you want No, that's this guy. He's the famous YouTuber behind too What the Devil's Tell and runs into this games.

3:02 Speaker 2: Luis Elizondo is a Pentagon whistleblower whose fame has reached new heights with his autobiography Imminent, in which he discusses the existence of American legacy UFO reverse engineering programs and of non human intelligence, the fact that we are not alone.

3:19 Speaker 1: I don't think the fact that we are not alone in this universe is necessarily something that needs to be classified.

3:26 Speaker 2: He was the director of a TIP, or the Advanced Aerial Threat Identification Program, which was an offshoot of AWSET, or the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program. I know a lot of acronyms will help you understand these programs in what they were actually intended for later in the episode, because there are a lot of popular misconceptions about both.

3:49 Speaker 7: Baby, this is great.

3:53 Speaker 2: Yeah. This interview took place across two locations. Lose Home in Wyoming we filmed two years ago, and a certain special naval lodge in Washington, d C.

4:04 Speaker 1: This August Wow Masonic Temple. A lot of our founding fathers were Freemations, and a lot of these buildings were built by inspired by Freemason.

4:14 Speaker 2: And you have the pyramid and the eye on the dollar and oh yeah, yeah, a lot.

4:18 Speaker 1: Of inbolting, the Pentagon itself, the shape of the Pentagon, the way all the Lafont basically the architect who built DC. Yeah, if you look at the street from the air, you see the squared compass.

4:31 Speaker 2: So in I didn't know that.

4:32 Speaker 8: Yep.

4:34 Speaker 2: I brought along a Markandeal, one of my best friends and one third of the incredible YouTube channel Yes Theory, to help here, and we had an absolute blast.

4:43 Speaker 4: Dissemination of information is now exists in a way that it cannot be controlled.

4:48 Speaker 1: You know, until recently, I'd never seen close encounters a third kind. I found it really interesting that Spielberg got a lot of it right.

4:55 Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, before I lose pivotal in UFO investigations, he had an extremely intense history in American special operations, warfare, and intelligence.

5:08 Speaker 1: I've seen both the best of man and the worst of man, all within seconds of each other.

5:21 Speaker 2: His father, Lou Senior, was a Cuban exile who originally fought shoulder to shoulder with Castro. After falling out with the Cuban Communists and coming to America, he became part of the CIA's Bay of Pigs invasion to toppel Castro. Finally, he joined a hardcore militant group of Cuban exiles called Alpha sixty six that engaged in all sorts of very interesting rogue operations for three letter agencies. Alpha sixty six's explicit mission was to eventually invade Cuba and topple Castra. This was the environment Elizondo grew up in.

5:58 Speaker 2: Little Lou knew how to work every under the sun.

6:03 Speaker 1: Here's how you cocked this, pull it back, let it go, Bang bang bang, bank bank bank, bank bank in see.

6:13 Speaker 2: He went on to fulfill a pretty badass career in American defense and intelligence, protecting the US's most advanced technologies, running intelligence efforts against Isis, al Qaida, Hezbola, the Taliban, and FARK. He's been deployed across the world, and he even held a leadership position at the notorious Guantanamo Bay. Perhaps most importantly, he was a liaison to the Special Access Oversight Committee. Why does that even matter? Because this committee deals with the most sensitive, unacknowledged programs in our military.

6:45 Speaker 2: Finally, according to future guests of this show, Matthew Pines Blue even was a member of the US Army Intelligence Support Activity Group, otherwise known as Gray Fox. This was a tiny elite of the elite special missions unit that goes into hostile territory before Delta Force and Jaysock. And if you know anything about Jaysock, they might have a thing or two to do with UFO Crash Retrievals.

7:11 Speaker 1: Does the Dewey currently work with Jaysock?

7:13 Speaker 9: We work with all of the security entities around the federal government.

7:18 Speaker 10: Did you guys work with Jaysock?

7:19 Speaker 11: Yes or no?

7:21 Speaker 4: Yes? We do?

7:22 Speaker 1: Okay, everybody sausphy one o the truth? Okay, But how much of the truth do you want to know? And how much should we know?

7:29 Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, after trying to brief General mad Dog Mattis on UFOs and having the door shut in his face by some bureaucratic intermediaries. Elizondo, along with his friend, former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Defense Intelligence Chris Mellin, decided to go off script. They took matters into their own hands, and they got three UFO videos cleared for release by the Pentagon. They took those videos to the New York Times for a bombshell article that was released in twenty seventeen that fateful day.

8:00 Speaker 2: UFOs have been all the rage, movies, media press. It is now pass to say that you believe in UFOs. It's a cottage industry, and yet simultaneously, very few people can tell you anything about them, who their occupants are, where they're from, and why they're here.

8:18 Speaker 1: This is a raging wildfire now, and it's not because of me. I can't take credit for that. It's because of what your generation has done with it. When we're off Cameron, we're going to show you guys something. We'll see how you react.

8:29 Speaker 2: O Blue cannot violate any security clearances, and so sometimes conversations with him can be frustratingly high level. Is there some spectrum that spots the UFOs more frequently?

8:42 Speaker 1: Uh huh. I have to be carefully asruing that question. There's some that's a good question.

8:48 Speaker 2: Okay, but if you suspend your cynicism for a moment and actually take some of his high level analogies as very important puzzles to decode core truths underneath layers that need to be peeled off carefully. This interview has a startling amount of information. I'm saying this not you, but I think I think infrared is interesting.

9:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, infrared can tell you a whole lot of stuff.

9:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, specific band.

9:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that UAP are interested in nuclear capabilities and our military capabilities. It's no different than we go to the Serengeti and we watch the cheetahs preying upon the antelope. You know, it's it's interesting to watch. What is their hunting techniques? What are their capabilities. There's a lot of cult history, occult history and essa.

9:42 Speaker 2: From the catastrophic implications of weaponizing UFO technology to the esoteric roots of the American space program to alien chips implanted in human bodies, one of which Lou actually handled firsthand.

9:55 Speaker 1: It was moving under the microscope under its own metabolism.

9:59 Speaker 2: To regular we seeing green orbs in his house, to him astral projecting himself next to a terrorist as a part of a CIA operation to his formerly undisclosed work with David Grush.

10:10 Speaker 1: We both worked in a skift together. I am telling you straight up, that guy he knows a lot more even than he was allowed to say.

10:16 Speaker 2: The amount of reality altering claims Lou makes in this episode could warrant one hundred other episodes.

10:22 Speaker 12: They seem to be interested in nuclear stuff.

10:24 Speaker 2: There is an absolute connection to New Fear. Yeah, absolutely? And is it that's unequivocal? Do you think it's the power unlock more than the destructive force?

10:33 Speaker 1: I think.

10:37 Speaker 13: So.

10:37 Speaker 2: Without further ado, sit back and enjoy this well blended, multi year and multilocation interview cocktail, an astral tour of esoteric knowledge with this week's American alchemist, Luis Elizonda, different parts of.

11:02 Speaker 9: A Maybe you should interview.

11:04 Speaker 2: Me before we get to the crazy stuff. I would be remiss to not mention today's amazing sponsor delete me. If you're into esoteric truths and forbidden knowledge, you probably don't want your personal information floating around on the web. Seriously, for most of us, it's everywhere. You have these sketchy data broker sites buying and selling your data, your name, your age, address, photos, phone numbers, even your Social Security number. Many of these third party sites list your information for everyone to see, including possible bad actors.

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13:38 Speaker 1: Goods soon.

13:40 Speaker 14: My father and I were sitting on the back porch and you happened to look up and see it looks like full plaise look please or something it.

13:48 Speaker 3: Likes four of them.

13:50 Speaker 14: They trailer lot be full of what handed and I asked him to follow what was it?

13:56 Speaker 1: He does a little bit, Muca. I don't know how did which direction house face your porch?

14:01 Speaker 14: My porch was like the thirteenth and ebit twelve blocks from here from the Capitol, right off half a block off of Pennsylvania Avenue and my back porch. From my back porch you could see the Capitol.

14:16 Speaker 2: This show contained a lot of bizarre synchronicities that I have trouble explaining. In fact, the groundskeeper of this lodge, an eighty two year old man named Maurice Hill, recognized Lou before we even got there and started to open up about his own UFO encounters. Soon we learned that he was one of the last living witnesses of the famous DC flyover, a slew of UFO sightings in July of nineteen fifty two in the Capitol, prompting headlines like this newspaper article and a call between Truman and then American chief UFO investigator Edward J. Rupelt.

14:52 Speaker 2: It also sent the CIA into a frenzy about how to manage the UFO problem.

14:57 Speaker 1: We can say that the recent site you are in no way connected with any secret development by any department of the United States. There's been a lot of discussion that actually there were some I think it was an F one oz five fighter jet that was actually scrambled to intercept those lights, those luminous objects. And there's even one reported account where perhaps they were asked to fire upon and may have actually hit one of them. That has not been verified yet, but there are some allegations about that.

15:28 Speaker 14: And then two of my friends were standing on the sidewalk talking down on Wildly Street northeast and while we were talking, this happened to look up to see this thing going up in the air. Looked like a huge jellyfish. We'll see what the hell is the jellyfish doing doing? And it just was going up and up like the jellyfish was in the water or whatever. At the bottom of it. Looking at it, it looks like looking into a volcano when you see a reddish and black the lava had lava bubbling or whatever. That's what it looked like under the bottom of it.

16:05 Speaker 1: First of all, when when did this occur?

16:07 Speaker 14: What what year that was in the seventies, around seventy three seventy four.

16:13 Speaker 1: Early to mid seventies. Yeah, okay, and was that here in Washington, d C. Yeah? Do you remember what direction you were looking at in the sky?

16:21 Speaker 14: Yeah, that way southeast?

16:27 Speaker 1: How far away? And how big was the object? If you had to guess.

16:30 Speaker 14: That thing was big? It was about the size of the maybe a car like around, but it was round, about the size of a cob. And it was about when I first saw it was like like looking at that, and then it looked like it was just going up and almost like a parachute.

16:50 Speaker 6: Is that ah, like a parachute like, but it was just going interesting, Well, how is this about thirty feet? Yeah, we're roughly about thirty fet That was about forty five or fifty feet A little wow.

17:05 Speaker 2: When UFO researcher Jeremy Corbel released a video that was caught in Iraq in twenty eighteen of a jellyfish shaped UFO, I have to admit I was a bit skeptical. It just felt like the object looked like none of the other discs, tic TACs saucers that get reported it was extremely high strangeness and so hearing this groundskeeper Maurice Hill saying that he himself had had an up close and personal encounter with a jellyfish shaped UFO was actually pretty mind blowing and was fairly confirming for me.

17:37 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for your yeah, sir, it's been an honored privilege. Thank you very much, mister Hill. Oh you will, thank you, thank you for telling that story for us.

17:45 Speaker 2: That's amazing, both the DC flyover and the jelly right.

17:48 Speaker 1: And by the way, there's other accounts of jellyfish hold on now yeah. Oh yeah, there's actually a DVD on it too. Yeah.

17:55 Speaker 2: Are they dropping anything because I know there's some cases where there's multilava.

17:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, we always mostly there's a there's a reference to something called angel hair, which refers to a slewing off or sloughing off of the outer layer of the vehicle and it drips down onto onto almost like a like a residue or like a like molten metal on the ground, and that that is referred to as angel hair. I talk about my book that the external part of the craft may be a blative, sacrificial that's why there's a lot of layers. Potentially, what happens is that when it's juiced up, there is an interaction between the energy source and the outside of the craft, which is actually engine.

18:37 Speaker 1: It's not actually an engine inspide and that is what creates that bubble. But every time you juice it up, you lose a layer.

18:45 Speaker 2: It's disposable.

18:46 Speaker 1: Correct. Would you talked to people that quote unquote call themselves experiencers or quote unquote abductees, They'll say the same thing. There's this correct pattern where it's almost as if an individual has chosen. And what you saw in the movie last night was was a kind of a I think a hot tip to that. Do you that that it's not random? That there is definitely some sort of deliberateness, if you will, or purposeful selection.

19:31 Speaker 2: You handled an implant and it was it was the department of that affairs affairs give you this implant that you describe it as these fibers, these spinley fibers, and then you sort of you get those away from the thing. It's like microchip. Is that right?

19:48 Speaker 1: So it's let me give you the best explanation. I can imagine a little square piece of metal that was iridescent, meaning different colors, purples and silvers and different colors, that was entombed in a soft, gelatinous what appeared to be human soft tissue if you were to remove a tissue sample from somebody maybe about this big and inside there was a foreign object that was metallic, appeared to be metallic and multicolored and on the biological materialist encapsulation, these fibers, multicolored fibers, yellow greens, blues that came off of that central piece of gooey mass.

20:30 Speaker 1: And according to the pathologists, it was moving under the microscope under its own metabolism. Yeah, and it was removed by a surgeon from the Department of Veterans Affairs from a US veteran who claimed to have a up close and personal contact with a UAP occupants or just up I don't know about that particular case, and I have to be very Pippa and patient confidentiality.

21:00 Speaker 2: Where do we have any sense of where that implant is or we have an idea?

21:04 Speaker 4: Okay, are you familiar with whitley'sdriver's store?

21:07 Speaker 1: I am not.

21:08 Speaker 4: Well, So Whitley has has an implant in his ear that has been documented under like an X ray, and in an attempt for him to to extract it, it had the same behavior. It evaded the surgeon.

21:21 Speaker 1: So we have someone right now, there's a person at one of the aerospace corporations. I cannot say their name because I don't want to get them any kind of trouble. But they've had something moving in their body now for several years and then they keep look cutting it in different parts of the body.

21:34 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I've asked Whitty about it, because he was a sole conference and I asked him, like why he never why he never removed it, And if I remember correctly, it was something around like he just he he felt like maybe there was maybe this was the nhi's way of communicating with him, and he didn't want to He didn't want to interrupt that. And it was also his his late wife she had recommended that he doesn't he doesn't take it out.

22:07 Speaker 15: I know that there's a story about edgar Mitchell, who was a naval astronaut who said that in a in a training mission over Germany, he saw over multiple days, sauce squadron of like nine UFOs that flew in all these different formations, and he had footage off them. They said that when he got back to the US in Washington, as soon as he landed a military plane land that took the footage.

22:29 Speaker 12: Never heard about it again.

22:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, it's it's not uncommon. Let's let's talk about one of the founders of my program a tip, the Senator Stevens from Alaska. This was a World War Two pilot, he who he himself admitted he had encounters with food fighters during the war. Okay, and this is a senator fighter food fighters. So the food fighter is a it's a term that was used by the Allies for UFOs huh, that would chase the aircraft and follow them from during their during their operations, midter operations over occupy Germany and other places as well.

23:06 Speaker 15: It was so where does all this Where do all these videos and reportings end up?

23:15 Speaker 1: That's a great question one I probably can't answer right now but hopefully soon.

23:21 Speaker 2: For the food fighters, they seem like more like flare style or like like ball lightning sort of things.

23:30 Speaker 1: Some are some are actual technical crafts. A lot were described as as as you know, glowing balls if you will, light luminous luminous objects. Yeah, but there's actually pictures of them.

23:41 Speaker 2: So why did so many? Because the food fighters were famous nineteen forty four nineteen forty five in a specific kind of triangle of southern Germany, So why do you think those things kind of popped up there specifically.

23:53 Speaker 1: Well, military operations, right, we know that UAP are interested in nuclear capabilities and our military capabilities. So what was going on at the height of World War Two? Well, winter takes all. Both countries are trying to be the first to develop the atomic bomb, right, and a lot of new technology was being fielded by both sides, and a winner takes all scenario. So you know, if you wanted to see how it's no different than we go to the Serengeti and we watch the cheetahs pring upon the antelope.

24:23 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to watch what is their hunting techniques, what are their capabilities?

24:32 Speaker 2: As edgar Mitchell sort of pattern match to a specific type of abductee who almost has a conversion experience post experience, so they have some sort of close encounter maybe of you know, with the craft or of the third kind, and then afterwards they start to believe more in mind over matter, more in sort of parapsychology, and maybe even that you know, they exhibit strange sort of biological features that they never had prior.

25:02 Speaker 1: Well, you know a lot of people who experience life changing events no different than PTSD right and soldiers who who suffer some sort of trauma or drama that changes you. Yeah, it will change you. It can change the way you think, the way you perceive. I don't think it's that really far of a leap to suggest that if you have an extraordinary experience and it's going to change your life in an extraordinary way.

25:27 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Like gury Geller says that he had an et experience as a young.

25:31 Speaker 8: Kid, Mitchell tells me one day, Edgar Mitchell, the sixth Man paula fourteen who walked on the Moon. Ori, is somebody very important in NASA secret base that wants to meet you. I said, fine, who is he? And he says to me it's doctor Werner van Brown. I say, what, doctor Verner von Brown wants to meet me. He was a Nazi, I mean, but he was a rocket genius. My curiosity killed me. I said, let's go. Verner pulls out a piece of man and he says to me, Uri, touch this. Tell me what you feel. I put my fingers on it and I say, wow, it doesn't feel like it's from here.

26:09 Speaker 2: Then he says, come with me.

26:10 Speaker 8: Do you see this door behind him? Verner von Brown takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens the safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulls it out. It's not heavy, says Uri. Touch this, tell me what you feel now. I put my hand on it, and I say, Werner, this is not from here.

26:29 Speaker 1: He says, you're right.

26:31 Speaker 8: This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind blown because as a child I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Werner Van Brown.

26:48 Speaker 2: I think he was part of the starting of stargate right, originally.

26:51 Speaker 16: The ah in that Russell targ He was really the guy who brought the V two rocket, Yeah, which.

27:02 Speaker 1: Is really like a scud missile.

27:03 Speaker 2: Well, what I find so crazy with the rocket? He and Arthur Rudolph and have created the NASA Saturn program. Correct, that was one hundred and twenty nine people. It was a transplant of the Nazi program.

27:13 Speaker 1: Absolutely, haven't worked secretly with us.

27:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty nuts. Yeah, and you had a bunch of other Auto Skorzen. He had a bunch of people we took over YEP from Buddy Germany. Is there anything more kind of mystical or strange than meets the eye when it comes to the history of US rocketry.

27:31 Speaker 1: Sure, Look at launch Pad thirty three. I mean everything is Masonic. Look at the Apollo missions. These were all the zodiac signs, right. You have Apollo, and you have the Juno missions, have all these Mercury missions, And there's a lot of occult history, occult history in NASA.

27:50 Speaker 2: As Lou mentions here, even the conventional American space program NASA, the Saturn and Apollo programs have far more esoteric roots than meet Some of the top American astronauts were Freemasons. Buzz Aldrin, Gordon Cooper, Don f Isazel, Gus Grissom, James Irwin, and Edgar Mitchell were all Freemasons. Another famed astronaut of the highest thirty third Masonic rink was the famous John Glenn, who urged Terry Reid to investigate UFOs as part of OSAP. Buzz Aldrin even established a Masonic lodge on the Moon called Tranquility Lodge two thousand, chartered by the Grand Lodge of Texas and brought a free Masonic Scottish rite flag to the moon to consecrate the whole thing.

28:42 Speaker 2: Do you think that somehow made the program more effective or well?

28:48 Speaker 1: I mean, look whether it did or not. I mean, if people have a belief in something, you know, there's like there's that ould saying there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole. The idea or notion that people at the supernatural can assist you is no different than back of the Romans carrying Talus mount into combat or conferring with the oracles Delphi before a major battle of significant event.

29:11 Speaker 2: Right, and what about the start of the American space program? Jack Parsons, the godfather of American rocketry and founder of jet propulsion laboratories, would often recite occultist Alistair Crowley's version of the hymn Japan before every rocket test. Who lines were love waves of sim He also claimed to have encountered a blonde haired alien falling a ritual in the Mohave Desert in nineteen forty eight. Hi, there are you interested in the White House? So Jack Parsons was in the Oto. You know this crazy cult?

29:47 Speaker 1: I too?

29:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is with Alistair Crowley. And all that, and they would do past life regressions Jack Parsons if you go all the way to the past in terms of what his life was.

29:58 Speaker 1: Blood it's called sex magic. It was some of the the the the occult aspects of OTO. Yeah, the sex magic rituals.

30:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did that. And but his his past life regression was Simon the Sorcerer, and you know, you know, Simon the Sorcerer was kind of uh So Simon the Sorcerer. That how the word simony came into existence is he was using sort of black magic to levitate and then he saw I think it was like Peter and Paul y uh they were levitating because of God, and he was like, oh yeah, the Disciples and he was like, okay, like you guys are somehow levitating higher than me. I'd love to pay for that power. So that's where the word simony comes from.

30:41 Speaker 1: Mm.

30:42 Speaker 2: And so he could fly using the sort of d black magic sort of thing. Jack Parsons uh sort of a known occultist who would do all sorts of weird sex magic rituals, and uh also was very interested in kind of levitation. When they did a past life regression on him, apparently that.

30:58 Speaker 12: Was what they wow.

31:00 Speaker 2: And just listen to what religious studies professor Diana Posulka had to say in our interview about just how religious and interested in Latin and Greek rituals people in the Space program are.

31:13 Speaker 17: Yes, they were doing some extraordinary types of rituals and they definitely believed that they were in touch with these beings. They presented them differently. So the Parsons crew, Yeah, they were way out there and they were doing this in the La Desert, right and staff, and they were doing ritual magic and they believed that they were in contact with you know, extraterrestrials and.

31:35 Speaker 4: Things like that.

31:35 Speaker 2: All right.

31:38 Speaker 17: On the Russian side though, they were doing the same thing, but it was under a Christian veneer. So Chikowski believed that he was actually in touch with the angelic beings and he talks about it and writes about it, and that these beings are in constant contact with us if we're able to receive their knowledge.

31:56 Speaker 2: And there's been this weird progressive split in science from like if you look at any of the most interesting scientists back in the day who've contributed most of science, whether it was Newton or Bacon or you know, Jack Parsons was more of an industry man, but like all of these people dabbled in some weird beliefs and practices. And now it's this weird citadel where like you have to be this very straight edge materialist reductionist in the kind of Ivory tower.

32:24 Speaker 12: And then there's like woo woo.

32:26 Speaker 2: You know, people that write about how quantum physics is the law of attraction, but there's no real scientific base and it's this bizarre bifurcation that I think has caused real stagnation.

32:35 Speaker 1: You have religion, you have science. Right, think of it as think of it your Egyptian right. Think of a pyramid. Right. On one side of the pyramid, you have these wonderful stones making the pyramid right, and on the other side you have this thing called science. Right, and when you're standing at the base of the pyramid and you're looking up. Okay, when I'm on this side, I'm on SCIgen, it's religion could not be any further they are. They almost diametrically because right, but as you begin to climb the pyramid, what happens.

33:09 Speaker 1: Religion and science get closer and closer together, and in fact they lean on each other, they need each other, and in fact, there comes a point of singularity here where the difference between science.

33:19 Speaker 2: And religion is indistinguishable.

33:21 Speaker 1: They are the same. And the point being is that the problem where religion and science run into problem is that they're fundamentally asking two different questions. One is asking how, one is asking why, and that is why the two don't meet. At the bottom you read the Tora, there's the stories that we grew up learning, and then there's you know, kabbala, which was kind of that part that most people were like, hey, you know, you don't want to spend too much time reading that. Let's let the let the experts, you know, focus on that.

33:53 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of this, both science and mysticism. We were talking about the Quran here and and some of the numerology that is in there. When I see your knowledge, I mean in a classic sense of knowledge. What I mean is the ratios, the way words are spoken, how they're spoken, and how they relate to real day science. You have to say, wait a minute, there is some insight here that goes way beyond I mean, there is true hard science. The development of the fetus. It's another example that you have this beautiful marriage, is beautiful merger of religion and science, and this understanding that you have to have both that the spiritual world the physical world are all part of the bigger plane.

34:35 Speaker 1: Do you know where the word angel comes from? Now comes from the Latin word a helios, so a helios sun or light or fire, purity. It's a term to describe the supernatural properties of these supernatural beings.

35:00 Speaker 2: Do you think that you know, rumors that the Nazis had a flying saucer, you know, do you think that's a shriver meta?

35:07 Speaker 11: Uh?

35:08 Speaker 1: Well, I think they something tried. I mean there's you know, the experiments which were which we're now known and other ones.

35:17 Speaker 2: And they are food fighters over Bavaria.

35:20 Speaker 1: But in reality they they did not have the technology that we're seeing today the distant.

35:28 Speaker 2: Do you do you think there's all this stuff around? You know, you know what Operation high Jump is. Of course you think that's a bullshit story where Admiral Richard Byrd goes down the coast of Argentina towards the Antarctica and he and his fleet encounter lad they're shooting discs.

35:44 Speaker 1: The problem is also said a lot of other things. Right, they found green spaces in Antarctica and other things. And the problem with it is you can get on Google now you can see for yourself that's bullshit. Yeah do you think so?

35:57 Speaker 2: Do you think there's nothing to the non or Hitler fascinating fast?

36:02 Speaker 1: They were fascinating in They had several missions down there. Yeah, I mean it was a it was a hidden content, yeah, you know, I mean no, there was absolute truth to that. Yeah. The question is were they successful in exploiting it? Yeah, the answer is probably no.

36:19 Speaker 2: Yeah. It feels like in if you're talking about science, we've gotten to there. We're reaching kind of a Heisenberg limit of science in terms of scale, and so it feels like the next frontier is within is looking at consciousness. And all science goes through, you know, the mind body problem, It goes through a fundamental epistemology of consciousness. So do you think that that's somehow super important for the next scientific paradigm or breakthrough?

36:56 Speaker 11: Well?

36:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, when you ask a computer do a calculation, right, the computer is has basic programming? Is it dos? Right? Is it Windows based?

37:09 Speaker 4: Is it?

37:10 Speaker 1: And that will tell you the limitations of its processing capability. We're no different We're just biological computer systems, and we have our limitations, we also have our strengths.

37:19 Speaker 2: So this is an interface.

37:20 Speaker 1: It's an interface, right, And do you.

37:22 Speaker 2: Think the ability to move outside of the interface in certain cases allows certain people to see UFO?

37:28 Speaker 1: Possibly? Possibly? Maybe some of the computers can work both Windows and DOSS and because of that, you know, UFOs versus not.

37:37 Speaker 2: Is there something because so we see generally between four hundred and seven hundred nanometers in the electromagnetic wave spectrum. Is there some spectrum that spots the UFOs more frequently?

37:51 Speaker 1: I'll have to be carefully answering that question. There's it's a good question.

37:56 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'm saying this not you, but I think I think infrared is interesting.

38:08 Speaker 1: INFORED can tell you a whole lot of stuff.

38:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, specific bands of it.

38:12 Speaker 1: Yeah.

38:13 Speaker 18: M I was contacted by a CEO of a think tank in Washington, d C. He says, I want you to come and participate in the conference here in Washington.

38:34 Speaker 3: That's all.

38:36 Speaker 1: Be busy.

38:37 Speaker 19: What's it about? This conference is about disclosing something to the American public as a startup position. So let's the scene that there have been crashing treebles by Russia, China and the United States, and the question is can we bring the.

39:01 Speaker 2: How put off was at the Sole conference last year and he told a very interesting story of actually the George W. Bush administration where they're doing this kind of net assessment is oh, he told that he told that story publicly, really yeah, in front of an audience.

39:17 Speaker 1: I never thought that conversation would come out.

39:19 Speaker 2: And it's tell it's you know on YouTube now, So.

39:22 Speaker 1: That actually occurred. That was a real conversation. I'll bet you know what. Probably not a whole lot of people know that the YouTube is out there, because when I knew about it, it was very very very very sensitive. Yeah.

39:32 Speaker 2: So he says some pretty crazy study. He says that George W. Bush was very interested in disclosure at he and Cheney and they were thinking about, you know, disclosure, and they did this sort of net assessment study on it with their national secure.

39:46 Speaker 1: Bush his father was aware. He was briefed into the.

39:48 Speaker 2: UAP director of the CIA for a very long time.

39:51 Speaker 1: Correct. Correct, And there's a backstory there too, and probably not at liberty to discuss, but but George Bush Senior was briefed into the UAP reality.

39:59 Speaker 2: And so so Junior is interested in possible disclosure. They come out of that study under Stephen Hadley, national Security advisor at the time, basically saying that we actually don't think full disclosure is good for humanity. The fact that George W. Bush contemplated UFO disclosure is fairly mind blowing. It's especially interesting in light of the revelation my friend Walter kernbroke after his conversation with David Grush, and I.

40:26 Speaker 18: Said to him, who, among all the people in society.

40:31 Speaker 1: Is keeping this secret?

40:32 Speaker 3: Who sits atap the.

40:33 Speaker 12: Pyramid of classified information?

40:36 Speaker 3: He said, Dick Cheney.

40:40 Speaker 2: If Dick Cheney was in fact a gatekeeper for the legacy UFO programs, then it leads me to believe that either the program was trying to out itself with Cheney's tacit approval, or if UFO disclosure was presented by outsiders, Cheney probably helped squash the idea. Either way, this is certainly a loose thread worthy of follow up because we know George Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, was fully read into UFO legacy programs. Just listen to this anecdote from Lee's lawyer, Daniel Sheehan.

41:11 Speaker 5: President Carter had seen a UFO, Yeah, in nineteen sixty nine. I believe it was, And so that when he was elected in the first week of November of nineteen seventy six, you know, the first thing he did was he sent for the head of the Central Intelligence Agency to come down to Planes Georgia to brief him on the UFO issue. And it turns out that person was George hw.

41:37 Speaker 1: Bush.

41:40 Speaker 2: Do you agree with that net assessment? Do you think that that full disclosure is too kind of cataclysmic for the average world.

41:46 Speaker 1: Well, there's between full disclosure and disclosure. Full disclosure is perhaps, you know, letting the world know if we've gleaned any technological advance from it, you know, towards our adversaries. I do think there's a need to keep things classified. I do think that there are reasons we don't want to tip our hand to our technological advantage over a particular adversary, right, we don't want to start another race, you know, weapons race.

42:12 Speaker 1: But at the same time, disclosure itself, the fact that we're we are not alone. No, I think I think America can handle the truth. In fact, I think America deserves the truth. I think we have to do a better job. I think we as a people need to stop being spoon fed information from what certain elements in our government tell us again, let me let me just clarify her, because this is important. I'm not against my government. I have to ever choose between real national security and disclosure. I will always choose national security.

42:39 Speaker 1: I make no mistake. And people might say, oh, they're terrible, do hey I am I'll play. I am a patriot. I am loyal to my nation. I am loyal to the American people.

42:47 Speaker 2: I mean like, it's it's it's kind of a two pronged issue. It's sort of criminal to keep the nature of reality from you know, the American population. That's sort of really unethical. The fact that STEM students are growing up maybe with the wrong framework. Because I spoke to output Off, he said that topological physics could be being held within you know, the government.

43:05 Speaker 1: You know that there's physics knowledge held by aerospace companies that is.

43:09 Speaker 20: Not there certainly is materials knowledge materials well, okay, materials which involves topological physics or whatever.

43:19 Speaker 2: That seems a little you know, off to me. But then on another level, even from a national security perspective, if we have these programs. You take Carl Nell's you know, you set up Army Futures Command. You take his statements in the debrief eight face value, which is that we're in this arms race to reverse engineer these crafts visa v. Russia and China. If we have this balkanized corporatized system where these with these fiefdoms to avoid Foyer requests that was set up in the fifties, and you have all these aerospace corporations, many of which you've named in your book Lockey, Northrope, you know, Bae, all these sorts of you know, companies, and we're sort of doling out, you know, you take care of this system.

44:00 Speaker 2: You take care of this system. You take care of this system. And then in the Russian Chinese side, they have these centralized nationalized systems with their best and brightest working on it. How are we not call this Manhattan Project two point zero? How are we not going to lose Manhattan Project two point oh?

44:16 Speaker 1: Correct? Let me let me share something with you, and I go back to the whole corruption thing. When when people in the government are making unilateral decisions not to inform Congress and not to inform the executive branch and making a decision to keep disinformation away from American people without going through the proper, proper processes, you know, to make that decision. That's a problem I have. And look, we when I asked, how did I'm gonna ask you a very simple question, both of you, and it's all political, very simple.

44:44 Speaker 1: How did nine to eleven happen? Do we know how nine eleven actually happened? I mean not conspiracy, I mean honestly, And we could say because some terrorists hijacked in aircraft, But what really happened is that we didn't share information. We had, the CIA, the FBI, the Department Events all had pieces and bits and pieces of information and they didn't share it with each other. And that's what caused nine to eleven. Okay, And that's important because we won the Cold War against Russia, not because we kept better secrets.

45:17 Speaker 1: And by the way, this is a line that I learned from Christopher Mellen, who knows his shit. Chris said, we didn't win the Cold War because we kept better secrets in Russia. We won the Cold War because we knew how to move information more efficiently within our system. Right. The problem is we haven't learned our lesson with nine to eleven, and we're continuing to do It's the same thing with UAP. We haven't learned to move that information appropriately, and it's staying in these silos. And what's happening.

45:49 Speaker 1: It's becoming necronic. It's the information and insight is dying there. It's not getting out. And I think, especially when you look looking at a competitive situation, global situation like we have now with adversaries out there, Russia and China have no problem talking about this at all. Of In fact, China had a couple of years ago in the China Morning Sun an article about the Five Continents initiative. I mean, they're full till boogie. They're like, hey, we know these things are real. We're moving forward.

46:17 Speaker 2: Yeah.

46:17 Speaker 1: Countries in South America, same thing. Japan just begged the United States to enter into a bilateral information sharing agreement with the United States solely for the purposes of sharing UAP information.

46:27 Speaker 2: It's crazy. I recently, a couple of weeks ago, I spoke with had a revolutionary tech former, had a revolutionary technologies at Lockheed Skunk Works, and he said, I could say high level that we spoke really nice guy, cool guy.

46:41 Speaker 1: He's a good dude.

46:42 Speaker 2: I brought up there, you go. I brought up a couple of frameworks that if you were to talk to an average, you know, professor in any science program across the country, they would call me crazy. Parapsychology, this idea of mind over matter. You sort of talk a little bit about this in your book Imminent with kind of remote viewing. And then I also brought up this sort of you know, different version of electrodynamics, you know, sort of a little change in Maxwell's equations. And he was very like, there's a lot of resonance there.

47:14 Speaker 2: He agreed with me on a lot of this stuff. And I'm having this conversation thinking, how the hell does this like renegade, scrappy kid who like it's like I have a history degree, I don't know shit, and this aerospace guy we're agreeing on stuff. And then like you have Sean Carroll Neil de grasse Tyson, like our best and brightest scientists have no idea what either of us would be talking about. It's crazy.

47:36 Speaker 1: Sometimes knowing history is one of the most important things you can know.

47:42 Speaker 2: Hear that, mom.

47:49 Speaker 12: They seem to be interested in nuclear stuff. There is an absolute connection to move hear?

47:53 Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely?

47:54 Speaker 2: And is it that's unequivocal?

47:56 Speaker 12: Do you think it's the power unlock more than the destructive force.

48:00 Speaker 1: I think I'll shave that when when I'm not like them.

48:06 Speaker 12: Yeah, no worries.

48:07 Speaker 1: So let's look at this real quick. Have you have the fundamental understanding of space? You have points A in points B. Okay, now you and I. If I want to drive from let's say here in Wyoming down to Denver, Colorado, that's expressed as a function of distance over time. And I could have gone four hundred miles and it took me eight hours, and I express it linearly right, So here I am near and it takes me eight hours. And if I have the ability to form space time not even that much, I'll have to foll all you have to do.

48:38 Speaker 1: Watch this. If you have the ability to just compress space time a little bit, yeah, just a little bit. Now watch this. I'm going to show you this. So now my trip from Wyoming to Denver, instead of taking you know, four hundred miles and eight hours, can do it in one hundred miles, and I can do it in one hour. Right, But I'm still in the same universe as you. What do I see you doing?

49:08 Speaker 2: I see that, you see that, I see this incredible spect I see you observe crazy speeds. It's just temporal dimension hacking, right, But it seems like.

49:19 Speaker 1: It's just a walk in the park. I'm going in slow motion, but be watching whoa and this whole space Because this is like this. The object inside that bubble might actually be much bigger than what we're seeing.

49:31 Speaker 2: So if he equals mc square squared, then the only way to get this sort of space time metric effect is if you have enough energy, you got.

49:44 Speaker 1: It, because if you do it, the only two ways will warp space time is with mass or a lot of energy. Think of mass and energy as the same thing. Mass is ice, energy as steep, but they're both water. Okay, so same thing kind of here. Energy and mass had this relationship.

49:57 Speaker 2: So you need to get playing scale energy something I cannot.

50:01 Speaker 1: If I use mass to do this, I'm going to I need I need mass more than the Earth. I'm going to perturb everything on the planet. So what's probably happening, it's it's a whole lot of that uh that is that is doing that's allowing you to create a bubble and then do.

50:15 Speaker 2: That it's some material that's able to harness that sort of energy, which, wow, how Camp, what would be your confidence level of that theory being true?

50:26 Speaker 1: I would not have shared that with you if I wasn't highly confident.

50:29 Speaker 2: But that but how you can't ultimately no rite or or can you?

50:34 Speaker 1: You know, there's some a lot of smart people out there, certainly a lot smarter than me, that have come up with some interesting scientific models and mathematical formulas that say that could very well be the case.

50:53 Speaker 2: As app stands. For the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program, a Pentagon program that ran from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve, Harry Reid, the Senate Majority leader from Nevada, with a deep personal interest in UFOs, Daniel Inuay from Hawaii, and Ted Stevens, Senator from Alaska, who had seen a UFO as a fighter pilot in World War Two, all provided a twenty two million dollar contract to Bigelow Aerospace to basically study UFOs and paranormal phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch.

51:26 Speaker 2: But as we've heard from the UFO whistleblower, David Grush, the original intent of the program was actually far more ambitious.

51:33 Speaker 21: The Lockey Martin wanted to divest itself from this material at a specific facility that's known to me that I provided to the Inspector General. And the idea was if they made a Catcher's mint, a security catchers mint for this shit at you most serious set possible. The contractor and the other government customer, which was the Central Intelligence Agency for that specific Lockeed material. And it was shit that they recovered from like the fifties and stuff, and it was like bits and pieces of of like Hall structure shit like that.

52:05 Speaker 21: So they were going to tech transfer its and the twenty one or twenty two million dollars was actually for Big Low Aerospace to build out, you know, facilities in Las Vegas and material analysis equipment.

52:19 Speaker 2: But going back to that transfer.

52:20 Speaker 21: With Lockeed, basically the CIA UH said fuck you Toda and Lockeed and it was totally killed. So Harry Reid's request to get the material transfer to the ASEPP program was totally killed because of bureaucracy and kind of fiefdom stuff.

52:40 Speaker 2: So OSAP was actually set up to transfer a UFO held by Lockeed Martin to a Special Access Program to get some outsider civilian scientist eyes on it. The program was not initially just set up to study ORBS cattle mutilations and electromagnetic anomalies on Skinwalker Ranch. That's what it got turned into when the craft never got successfully transferred. This would explain the program lead rocket scientist James Lukatski telling Jeremy Corbel on his podcast Weaponized that he actually stepped inside the hull of a craft that was probably the craft that was going to be transferred to ASAPP.

53:17 Speaker 2: The United States government has in its possession of craft of unknown origin, and you were able to access the inside. Is that correct? Yes. It's very important to note that a lot of people in the general public implicitly accept ASAPP as the most secret core UFO program there is.

53:37 Speaker 7: They just released I think by accident.

53:41 Speaker 1: How's that happened?

53:42 Speaker 14: It's ConA blue.

53:44 Speaker 1: Are you familiar with this?

53:45 Speaker 2: No?

53:45 Speaker 14: This is like a UAP program.

53:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, just think about it. Lockeed spends roughly eighty five million dollars on a single New F thirty five fighter jet. Do you really think that the same company that builds the F thirty five would only spend twenty two million dollars on investigating an off world craft they discovered. No, absolutely not. But say you have an incredibly secretive UFO program involving only people who've signed the most hardcore of NDAs. As time went on, maybe it would become harder and harder to get talent from the outside world.

54:20 Speaker 2: Maybe you'd find yourself competing with Chinese and Russian equivalents that are far more centrally coordinated. And maybe what you'd do is set up a limited hangout whereby you'd transfer some of that technology without saying too much about it, to get some outside eyes on it, so that some new physics, biology, and aerospace talent could look at these mysterious vehicles and contribute their input. You'd probably learn a few things this way. Number one, who is worthy of being initiated into the program?

54:50 Speaker 2: Number two? How much money would allow adversaries to successfully understand or attempt to reverse engineer a UFO that they've found. Number three, what are effective ways is to throw people off the trail? And number four one of the most effective but limited information sets you can give out so that only the most qualified initiates can discover core truths. The person involved in transferring this UFO to Asapp was VP of Lockeed Martin Space System's Advanced Technology Center, a guy named Jim Ryder.

55:22 Speaker 13: AFSAPP was originally intended to skip out Bigelow Aerospace facilities in Las Vegas do to a UAP material divestment plan proposal to asset leadership by Lockheed Martin Space Systems vice president doctor James Ryder, now deceased.

55:42 Speaker 2: I urge everyone to listen to this talk Jim Ryder gave called the Garment of God.

55:49 Speaker 9: If you wanted to study certain kinds of things related to what's called ESP in the United States, you had to height it very carefully because you were crazy and then government and wanting people to thunk their supporting ray stuff. But if you wanted to do the work in Russia, go right ahead, fine, here's your money, because they're not caught in the religion that says it's not possible.

56:09 Speaker 2: I have to say I found myself agreeing with just about all of his philosophical and scientific frameworks. But he says things you would never expect a prime defense contract or executive to say. He speaks about love as a physical force and divine love being the highest example of that force. He talks about the law of attraction, of extrasensory perception, and psychic abilities of an electrically polarizable vacuum, even of the relationship of electromagnetism the human body and healing. He even speculates that gravity is an electric dipole.

56:46 Speaker 2: I highly recommend you listen to this talk on linking it. In the description of this video. One of the stories in Imminent, which is maybe the most mind blowing, is that you and some CIA colleagues, you guys had there's a terrorist in custody, and you guys are engaging in remote viewing protocols and you're testing out how effective They already want to say, what happens here, it's absolutely wild.

57:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, hal Putoff is kind of the godfather of the CIA's remote viewing program. But basically it is a fact that the US government, the intelligence community, we were taking spies and soldiers and teaching them to conduct what into vernacular you call psychic espionage. And by the way, Russians had a program too, So it wasn't just us trying to you know, pull something out of thin air. You know, again, no pun intended, but so were the Russians. And other countries, and there were some very effective cases where I mean it was very very compelling the data.

57:48 Speaker 1: I mean, there was no way you could repeat it without the getting getting those conclusions without remote viewers. So I was at the Pentagon. I also managed one of the UFO program. I was running portions of Guantanamo Bay involving high value detainees, and we decided to conduct an experiment where a few of us would get into a skiff. We had a brown black lunch, and we maybe thought we could try to remove you. And I had been to the detention facility before I got you. Really careful what I say here, I can get a hell of a lot of trouble,

58:32 Speaker 1: not realizing if you're effective or not. And then lo and behold. Not too long later, a major news media article came out I'm not going to say which one that detailed this detainees' experience with what apparently the detainee perceived as those five white figures over his bed, shaking his bed. And so I called up hal Putoff and I told him, I said, hey, boss, I you know, I think we think we need to stop because it's now the front page of the news. Favor I might have been the front page, but one of the front pages of the of the sections there, and he kind of chuckled and he says, yeah, you know.

59:16 Speaker 1: There was another time where I had told Hal I said, I have a really bad feeling there's something going to happen with the DC Metro within ninety days, and I can smell fire and smoke, and I'm very concerned. And he said, okay, we'll log it. And on the eighty ninth day talked to hell about it. On the eighty ninth day there was a fire, fatal fire on the redline of the Metro in DC. Now with that said, listen, that doesn't do as well as woo woo mumbo jumbo. Look, guys, I think there's a very scientific explanation.

59:46 Speaker 1: I think most people can do it. I think probably it's a vestigial capability that we've had for a long time as a species, before we had, you know, the sophistication of verbal communication. Look, when two dogs come into a room, there's this nonverbal communication. It's probably something very similar. I think it's probably based in quantum physics. If I had the guess, it's we don't quite understand it yet, But it's really not that special. You know a lot of people when you get to a hotel and you pick up the phone you call a loved one, they're like, oh my gosh, I was just thinking of you, right, probably something very similar.

1:00:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's but it's it's wild, and it's wild how much corroboration there actually is for this working. There's you know, this woman named Jessica Uttz who's this famous statistician, came in skeptical looking at all of the kind of Foyd stargate or declassified stargate documents, and she came out of this study saying, you know, I think there's something here. Ray Hyman is a skeptic. You know, I was like friends with like James Randy back in the day, was at University of Oregon. Also went through everything and did we ever do.

1:00:46 Speaker 1: It when we were at the we did that.

1:00:49 Speaker 14: Yeah.

1:00:49 Speaker 1: Okay, so you know, again can't be explained.

1:00:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's real. I have a possible crazy explanation for it. Okay, maybe maybe this is wrong, but whatever has to be going on has to not attenuate over space time. And you know, certain materials like put Off as famous stories of putting people at the bottom of the ocean a submarine and they can sort of remote view stuff from far away. And so what if there is you know, this extended version of electrodynamics, like you know, there's this sort of other field where you get certain wave types that aren't kind of your traditional transverse Herritian wave.

1:01:25 Speaker 2: Quite possibly, Yeah, I don't know, but that might be one possible in road into this.

1:01:31 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean a lot of people believe it's it's you know, based in quantum quantum entanglement. Yes, and the human consciousness may be an actual quantum process. I'm not a neuroscience, yeah, scientist, but some have speculated that that may be where human consciousness lies. It's an actual quantum process, which would explain kind of the understanding of how we interpret time and what it means in the present versus the past, versus the future, and how we can potentially perceive elements of the future in the past as if it's occurring now.

1:02:00 Speaker 2: Yes. In fact, like you know, Roger Penrose thought that the brain was maybe a quantum system room temperature quantum system, right, And so in quantum computing you can reverse cubit positions across quantum computations and so even people building quantum computers think that maybe you can send information back in time and a work in quantum.

1:02:22 Speaker 1: Well even you know, the holographic theory to them. You know, I'm not saying I believe it necessarily or I don't, but you know, there's interesting elements there where you have. You know, in holographic theory, you have three dimensional representation

1:02:36 Speaker 1: of an existence of reflection, that there's actually something else on the opposite end of the universe and all information there is there for all time, and that you know, we are living in what they consider what some scientists is called a holographic world. It's called holographic theory. Very interesting. But you know, as we study black holes and the event horizon more and we begin to learn about hawking radiation and information being lost versus stored. Yeah, there's some interesting theories out there.

1:03:14 Speaker 2: So you talk about the Colins Elite, this evangelical Christian group actually being one of the primary kind of blockers around UVP research. And then you even cite a story and eminent where this guy says, you know, Lucifer is you know, his realm is the skies, and you know this stuff is demonic and we should not study it at all. I believe there was a program at right Airfield called Stack five STAC five and they were doing these kind of bizarre magical protocol ceremonial magic and a lot of these people were CIA people from the Colins Elite, and they came out of that being like, this stuff is demonic and we shouldn't touch it.

1:03:54 Speaker 2: And maybe the thing that you've experienced more of is the Skinwalker Ranch stuff where people come out out of you know, experience being at Skinwalker Ranch studying stuff there, and they say, stuff follows me around to my home and I have to rid myself of it. I told you I went to Skinwalker Ranch right after I saw you a couple of years ago. I smelled sulfur and I was like, I got to get the hell out of here. And I had a kind of not the best couple of weeks after that. And so again, yeah, maybe it's the same thing that we've looked at in the past when it comes to angels and demons, and then the question is what is that.

1:04:27 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, those are just different clature.

1:04:30 Speaker 1: But well, look, if you're going to go to the scene of a fire, don't be surprised when you come home and your your your shirt smells like smoke. Right, same thing, but it may not be necessarily tangible, but you know, perhaps there's there's leftover residue. Call it that, you know. I think the problem is that we have done such a good job in taking the things that we don't understand, and because you don't understand them, putting them to them in a corner and saying it's weird, it's bad, it's it's paranormal.

1:05:04 Speaker 1: But when you really look at what the word is, we have stigmatized that word. The reality is if the word para is Latin, it means above or beside. That's it. And so when I say parachute, what do you think of? You think of a device that deploys over your head and you float down and hopefully hit the ground more with a thump instead of a thud. Right. If I say paramedic, you think of a first responder or somebody who's good, who's in an ambulance there to save your life. But when I say paranormal, people tend to spook that.

1:05:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of look at you, see what you mean? They kind of And my point is that the word paranormal is no different than any other word with prefix. We have made it weird. But the truth is everything in science, by definition, everything is paranormal until it becomes normal, right, whether it's a cell phone or a Wi Fi or electromagnetic spectrum and things like that. And so we have to we have to really do a better job of policing ourselves and avoiding this unnecessary stigma. This is why I said before, you know, tomorrow's technologies seems like magic today.

1:06:14 Speaker 1: You know, imagine being Da Vinci walking in the desert and coming across a garage door opener. We hadn't invented plastic back then. We don't even understand what the electromagnetic spectrum is, right, or what a battery is. That's pretty magical. Look, I'll tell you right now, true story. A lot of us that are involved in this, you know, scientists right have been now accused on social media as being conspiracy theorists. They label user it like a weapon. They say you're a conspiracy theorist. No, actually, I'm a scientist.

1:06:45 Speaker 22: Now.

1:06:45 Speaker 1: The people that are labeling you the conspiracy theorists that they follow the scientific methods aren't even scientists, right, I actually went to school to be sent I became a special agent and following the you know, following the leads where they go. But some people have a really hard time pushing their boundaries of understanding. They allow other people to formulate their opinions for them, and then they get stuck in. And this is why I always say the true believer and the true skeptic are exactly the same person, just opposite ends of the spectrum, because no matter what, no matter to face of what evidence, the true believer and the true skeptic are never going to change.

1:07:22 Speaker 1: Right, Right, there's the same person. And the skeptic says, oh, you go crazy believers, and the believers say, oh, you're crazy skeptics. It's the same person, yeah, depending on who you ask, right, because the true skeptic is actually a true believer, just in their own narrative.

1:07:36 Speaker 2: And when people say this stuff is not repeatable, that's just false to me. There are two patterns that I think are interesting and I'd love to get your take on this. One is the nuclear connection. According to Robert Hastings, a mutual friend of ours who wrote a great book called the UFOs and Nukes.

1:07:51 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, he's right, he has legit, he has his observations, and his conclusions are spot on. I couldn't talk about it at the time when I was in the government, but everything he was reporting we saw, Yeah, it was absolutely correct.

1:08:03 Speaker 2: And you have these guys, these radar operators, you know, ICBM missile security personnel who they couldn't be the you know, the last thing from the people who want fifteen seconds of fame. They don't get into that line of work because they have some history, no attention seeking desire.

1:08:18 Speaker 1: No, you don't. Look, you don't. You don't get involved in the UFO topic to seek fame. You want ridicule and you know, right, isolation and choose UPHO topic. Look, here's the bottom line, guys. It's it's very simple. It's really a binary choice. Either A the reality is that u APR here and they're doing what they're doing, or B this is some form of mass hysteria. And if it is mass hysteria, that means you have trained pilots with top secret clearances flying live munitions over populated cities. You have weapons officers, and you have Air Force nuclear technicians literally with their fingers on the nuclear button.

1:08:58 Speaker 1: Yeah right, you have admirals and generals. You have directors of CIA and directors of national intelligence that are all batshit crazy, right, So choose your poison? Yeah, yea, Yeah, it's and which which is a bigger problem? Well, first of all, it's even more scary if it is a mass delirium. Yeah, then we've got bigger problems in our hands.

1:09:22 Speaker 2: That's what I tell people. I say, if you're a null hypothesis, is that there's some cabal that is controlling all of this. That's crazier than just admitting that there's some sort of intelligence beyond humanity. David Grush July twenty sixth, twenty twenty three, testified before Congress American Hero, American hero, amazing guy. And he said in a friend of ours, and he said some pretty crazy things. And one thing that I think is not often spoken enough about.

1:09:51 Speaker 1: Well, let me just interrupt what people saying. We are crazy things, but he's not crazy. I'm telling you right now. I worked with the guy. I can't say where. I've been asked not to say where. We both worked in a skift together. He had every access that you needed to have, and he saw the same information I did. So I am telling you straight up. That guy. He knows a lot more even than he was allowed to say. You know, anybody out there who wants to go ahead and pooh pooh Dave and said, well, you know there's anecdotal No it's not.

1:10:15 Speaker 1: He was, Oh, well, he talked to forty some witnesses. It's all secondhand. No, it's not. That's what That's the only thing he can tell you. But I'm telling you there's a hell of a lot more that if he was allowed to say, people wouldn't say that.

1:10:27 Speaker 2: Yeah about him, I've gotten to know him pretty well. He's just incredibly smart and hard.

1:10:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tragedy of what they did to him. You know, I'm not surprised they tried to do the same crap to me. You know, they try to dig up anything and everything. Fortunate, I've had a very very clean background, but you know, had to stop them from trying.

1:10:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And Grush said very interesting stuff around the atomic classification system, basically overlaying UFO secrecy.

1:10:54 Speaker 21: The guys that were involved in Manhattan were overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy and some of the same ways to protect stuff that they're protecting.

1:11:04 Speaker 1: Our nuclear secrets.

1:11:05 Speaker 11: The Manhattan Project when I have custody of it, and then it would go into the Atomic Energy Commission, and then it would go into the Department of Energy, which has its own line of clearances.

1:11:17 Speaker 2: And so it's not only that UFOs are showing up at nuclear sites all across the US, but actually you have an entirely different clearance system the NPKY.

1:11:25 Speaker 1: There is brother, there's reports right now online. Anybody can see him. The government reliefed a bunch of UFO related documents not too long ago, a few years ago, thinking nobody would pay attention to, I think like ten thousand reports. And when you look in there, U see actual verbatim UFO incidents back in the fifties and sixties, over the Savannah River Facility, over what Oakridge National Laboratory, over what Los Alamos. And by the way, it's still happening today, right, So this isn't like, oh, this is kind of a new revelation.

1:11:56 Speaker 1: Uh uh.

1:11:57 Speaker 2: James McDonald's famous physicist too, was of very marginalized over this topic. He was that I think Arizona State. I believe he saw his sighting I think was at Savannah Riversite, and it was around that.

1:12:09 Speaker 1: I mean, look at look at that poor Harvard professor, right, and they tried to try to get rid of him, and he want a loll coat case. John mack that's right, John mac Well had to go to court. Yeah, because the system didn't want him.

1:12:22 Speaker 22: Talking from my point of view, when I got involved, the CIA came to my office and then they showed me MRIs of some of these people. And most of those people had interactions with UFOs. And these were Department of Defense and Intelligence people, so supposedly and reasonably credible individuals. So in looking at the MRIs of some of these people, we noticed a area of the brain that seemed to be disturbed, let's say, are different in many of these individuals.

1:12:54 Speaker 1: This is a part of brain known as the quantity put him in, and it is a very specific part of the It's responsible for all sorts of stuff and and some of even speculated precognition.

1:13:05 Speaker 3: Me certainly intuition.

1:13:07 Speaker 1: Intuition, for sure.

1:13:09 Speaker 2: You did a great piece with with rass Card.

1:13:12 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. He's a good man.

1:13:13 Speaker 2: He's awesome. He's a very good man, and he really knows his stuff.

1:13:17 Speaker 1: Yes, he does. Very impressive. He says that's for day.

1:13:20 Speaker 3: Stanford immunologist doctor Gary Nolan has been researching this topic, and while his conclusions are not definitive, there are two working theories, one that people with naturally large cordate poutamen might attract UAPs like an antenna, another that UAP encounters with normal people cause that same part of the brain to get bigger.

1:13:46 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is a slide from that News Nation piece and it's you're showing this kind of weight matter syndrome.

1:13:55 Speaker 1: They put him quote, they put him in.

1:13:57 Speaker 23: Yeah, so the cardate and yeah, MRIs and Nolan talks about this. But if you look at this, look the white lettering under interference syndrome injury, CEO executive, and then you have what is that like doe gravity propulsion?

1:14:16 Speaker 2: What's going on there? I wasn't really sure how to approach this and don't want to dwell on it. I'm merely the messenger, not the original publisher of this. It was either a fuck up on News Nations sources part or an intentional breadcrumb, but it answers my old colleague Eric Weinstein's questions around UFOs Number one, where are the scientists, Well, they might be employed by the DOE. And number two, is string theory or quantum gravity really the only acceptable approach to gravity these days?

1:14:44 Speaker 2: Well, my guess is, whoever this propulsion expert is, is not using string theory. Finally, this corroborates Mark Injuries and Ben Horowitz saying that a National Security Council staffer told them that elements of physics were classified in the past.

1:14:58 Speaker 10: We classified a whole entire area is of physics in the nuclear era and made them state secrets. Of the theoretical science physics, we thought, we classified them and made them state secrets, and that research vanished.

1:15:13 Speaker 2: Again. I wrestled whether amplifying this slide was the right thing to do or not. But to me, it is obviously not adaptive from an American national security standpoint for the broader American populace to have no idea that there is a more true science being practiced within the confines of three letter government agencies, especially with where the world is headed now. And then there's that part, Yeah, that seems important too, but I'll let you speculate there. Either way, a more full understanding of the story here and how it relates to UFOs seems warranted.

1:15:49 Speaker 1: I am only allowed by the Pentagon to talk about what's in my book. I have not been given clearant to talk about anything beyond that. And because that involves a patient, that also crosses the patient confidentiality, which I would also not be able to elaborate on.

1:16:04 Speaker 2: Yep, because I was I was, I was thinking.

1:16:07 Speaker 1: Keep asking questions.

1:16:08 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I know, don't don't don't ask anything. You don't have to say anything. But I was thinking when I saw that slide, it's almost like the three body problem or something where it's like we were just talking about possible like like the nh I have counter intel or something. Are scientists working on the most interesting stuff? Maybe they get retaliation or backlash? Because I was like, what's the connection with UAP. I mean, he's just working on very advanced science. Did he also encounter U A P And then is that correlated with the science.

1:16:39 Speaker 1: Well, we know that, you know, it's the old PRC vis CEO of of Lockeed had his own UFO experience, didn't he.

1:16:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh that's fascinating. So you're talking about Kelly Johnson, that's right.

1:16:54 Speaker 1: Yeah.

1:16:55 Speaker 24: At approximately five pm, mister Johnson was looking out of a large window facing the west and just watching the sunset.

1:17:05 Speaker 2: He watched this black thing. He was convinced at this point that it was a UFO.

1:17:10 Speaker 24: He said it was moving so fast he was unable to make out any additional features. Kelly Johnson wasn't just your average guy looking at the cloud, going oh, that's a UFO. Now this guy knows what he's talking about.

1:17:24 Speaker 1: You know. I go to Congress and members of Congress will pull me aside and said, look, I had my own UFOs siding with my son. Yeah, literally fishing in a lake and the thing came out of the water.

1:17:37 Speaker 2: In your book, Imminet, which is fantastic and everybody should go by and read, you talk about green orbs and that you see them both with your family and that they're kind of around your place in Wyoming. We visited you a couple of years ago. I don't know if you remember this.

1:17:51 Speaker 1: Do you remember what.

1:17:52 Speaker 4: We're about to say?

1:17:53 Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you know what we're about to say?

1:17:54 Speaker 1: I don't, but but you know it's I've had a pretty interesting life and a lot of things have happened. So yeah, I'm bracing myself. By the way, the whole thing with a poodle in the lamp shade. There were no pictures. It wasn't me.

1:18:07 Speaker 2: So if that's you forgetting no, no, no, this is this is probably a Tuesday for lou. But we saw green orb with you. I don't know if you remember that was it was nighttime, it was, and it was kind of a peak.

1:18:17 Speaker 4: I remember as it being a peak moment and in like a very genuine conversation about the phenomenon because.

1:18:24 Speaker 2: It was describing how the sun is a nuclear fusion reactor and you were going it deep into the science. It was fascinating. And then all of a sudden boom right over there by the shed.

1:18:36 Speaker 4: And it was like we had I had never I think Jesse had seen stuff before, but I had never seen anything. And I always because it was only happened in my preferred vision. I I always call it half a siding. But when I read when I when I read about your experiences in the book, it really it came back very strongly because I was like, holy shit, I've experienced what what he's talking about with him at his house.

1:18:59 Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of folks have. Look at the end of the day, I can only give you my observations again, my opinion doesn't matter because people say, could it be ball lightning? Sure, saying that most fire. Sure. Could it be weird electrical circuitry in the house that's causing atmospheric ionization in a localized area and ionizing the atmosphere gap. It could be. What I do know are the facts that it was witnessed not only by me and my wife and my kids, but also our neighbors. But it occurred when I got into a tip, And it also is happening to other individuals that were part of that program that is describinatively same description and some different colors.

1:19:37 Speaker 1: Their stories will probably be coming out here in the near term. Wow.

1:19:40 Speaker 4: What was the closest you have experienced an ORB right here?

1:19:44 Speaker 2: Oh?

1:19:44 Speaker 21: Wow?

1:19:44 Speaker 1: Wow?

1:19:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, because with you like.

1:19:46 Speaker 4: The experience that we're talking about was probably maybe one hundred two hundred meters away. It was like even further than that.

1:19:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know they got very very very very close that Some are far away in the sky as you described, some are right there close and p wow. I never felt anything, never felt any static charge. I was never afraid, more just kind of curious, kind of like wow, that's interesting you wow. But then again, the whole portfolio is so weird. It's like there wouldn't be a freak cat like you.

1:20:14 Speaker 4: I don't think maybe, and this is and again, obviously you've had the experience in some crazy situations, worked some crazy places. But I can't imagine a human experiencing something that can only be described as out of this world this close and for it to be like, I guess I'm just observing.

1:20:31 Speaker 1: Like when we're off camera, I'm going to show you guys something, Okay, and well we'll I'll show you something that and we'll see how you react. Okay, Wow, I can't wait.

1:20:41 Speaker 2: Okaylea, So Dave said that. Dave Rush said that Oppenheimer was part of setting up the original UFO secrecy protocols with the Atomic Energy Commission. Can you confirm or deny.

1:20:55 Speaker 1: That I'm I It wouldn't surprise me. I that was before my time. I don't know. I didn't know Oppenheimer. I met Teller once he met Teller. Yeah, when I was a kid, I was about seven years old on a Air Florida flight. My father had some friends in the government, and he put me on a plane with him and we went from Sarasota to Miami. On a Air Florida flight and there was he was eating very old at the time. Members sitting ext to him and he's eating chicken soup. No way. Yeah, And I had no idea at the time his significance.

1:21:25 Speaker 1: Only later my father was like, you know.

1:21:27 Speaker 2: He had to have to me been involved in this stuff, if this stuff exist. He's the smartest guy, you know. There's this nineteen seventy one Australian document actually that grush sites a lot.

1:21:39 Speaker 4: That is this guy.

1:21:40 Speaker 2: I think it's the head of their nuclear division, this guy, Harry Turner. He's writing for the Joint Intelligence Organization, which is their CIA, and I think they because there's some atomic testing going on in Australia, they start to see stuff and they're like, oh, maybe these UFOs are more real than meets the eye, and the US kind of official version of this stuff around blue Book was actually not super real. And they start to investigate and it's this whole thing about the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence.

1:22:08 Speaker 2: They lists the scientists involved in anti gravity research, and Teller and Oppenheimer.

1:22:13 Speaker 1: Are both named, so would not be at all surprise.

1:22:17 Speaker 2: Pretty pretty crazy stuff. Small community, A small community, Yeah.

1:22:30 Speaker 1: You kind of had to see the movie before I brought you here.

1:22:33 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've only seen Contact recently too.

1:22:37 Speaker 1: I never seen it.

1:22:38 Speaker 2: Oh really, you could watch it. I think Carl Sagan was he was kind of nominally skeptical of a lot of the UFO stuff, but I think he maybe secretly was more of a believer.

1:22:49 Speaker 1: Well, you know, he was one who helped put that Golden Disc together. That's now and our extra Solar system right outside of our own solar system, really interstellar space. Yeah, you know, why would he take the time to create something like that if he didn't expect someone to look at it one day?

1:23:06 Speaker 20: Right?

1:23:09 Speaker 2: Carl Sagan didn't only hold some covert, possibly UFO related meetings the public didn't know about. He also met a lot with Kick Green towards the end of his career. It was TAA guy Bury into UFOs.

1:23:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were telling me that I had that.

1:23:22 Speaker 2: His early journals are filled with passages about UFOs and extraterrestrial life. But you might not know. He was a secret consultant on a project called A one one nine, a top secret Air Force project based out of Kurkland Air Force Space. The project's sole purpose was to contemplate detonating a nuclear blast on the moon as a show of force against the Soviets. America can, should, must, and will blow up the moon, and we'll be doing it during a full moon, so we make sure we get it all. Many people don't know this about Carl Sagan.

1:23:56 Speaker 2: I think it takes just reading his book, watching his videos, and watching his incredible movie Contact to know that Carl Sagan knew a little bit more than he let on. When it comes to UFOs, where do you think of past civilization? If they're trying to make themselves known, what do you think they would do? Leave something in a Lagrangian point?

1:24:19 Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question, isn't it. Let's look at this for example, Okay, fifty five million years old. Look at the condition it's in, right, it's already Eventually Mother nature washes away all traces, right, the Pyramids of Egypt five thousand years old, probably older, But I don't Yeah, let's say ten. Yeah, sure, let's say ten.

1:24:42 Speaker 14: Right, Yeah, you think so? I think? Yeah?

1:24:44 Speaker 2: But what about carbon dating? Have they carbon dated anything?

1:24:47 Speaker 1: Well? You can't carbon date stone unfortunately, but it's it's a little more of only organic things.

1:24:53 Speaker 2: But yeah, but there's water damage on the line.

1:24:56 Speaker 1: Correct, correct, And.

1:24:58 Speaker 2: There are two guys, John Anthony Robert Shock that think that these things were built.

1:25:03 Speaker 1: And then you were saying, well, my point being is that ultimately, no matter what you put on the face of the Earth, well, eventually you'll have subduction zones and will eventually go back into the mantle of the Earth and be recycled. So Earth is not anywhere to leave anything permanent. So then let's say, well, what about the Moon. How about there's no atmosphere, no erosion. How about I built some sort of thing on the moon.

1:25:23 Speaker 2: You think there's a monoli, right, Well, let's you.

1:25:26 Speaker 1: Know, hypothetically, let's put an artifact there, right, that'll be there forever. But even the moon isn't forever. It's going to come a point where the Sun will become a great giant, right, red giant, and will engulf and consume the moon. Okay, So even moons are susceptible. Same with asteroid impacts, et cetera. So if you're going to make something truly enduring, truly enduring, there's really only two ways to do it. You either put something out in deep space where the chances are of it coming into contact with something or minimal or biology, genetics, because genetics is a fingerprint and that will continue as long as the species survives.

1:26:03 Speaker 1: It finds other places to live, so will that message and you can put a lot And the beauty about DNA is that it self replicates, So that message, in essence, if you code it right, could be there as long as the species as survives.

1:26:19 Speaker 2: So is that I don't know, do you have any leading candidates for genetic you know, passive past civilizations leaving their genetics.

1:26:28 Speaker 1: So again I'm biased because my background microbiology, immunology, parasitology. So you know, if you were to ask me, I would say genetics is a key. You know, DNA deoxyribonucleic acid, but it's not the only key. Right. There was a time where we as a species thought all life form had DNA. We now realize that's not the case. There's there's living things that don't look like a living thing, like a like a virus that is about as alien as anything that we know. There is no DNA, only RNA, and yet it does the same thing if you do it replicates, It does a lot of the same things.

1:27:06 Speaker 1: It defends itself and so it's you know, a virus a life form. Well, I think some scientist would say, yeah, he's just like.

1:27:14 Speaker 2: A life form, but also gets into the brainstem and can cause people to act and to promote the replication of the virus.

1:27:22 Speaker 20: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, like toxoplasm. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, So you know it's uh wow, what do you think?

1:27:32 Speaker 1: Guys?

1:27:34 Speaker 4: It's amazing.

1:27:36 Speaker 1: Look here and listen to that.

1:27:41 Speaker 4: In a weird way, it's like a similar thing. You've been to Egypt. Yeah, have you stood the front parent, there's always a sense that I feel like just standing up, I feel the same way about It's like not in reality.

1:28:11 Speaker 1: This is the sp one, very very rare for the R fifteen. It's kind of the Unicorn of AR fifteen's. It shoots two.

1:28:19 Speaker 2: Two three caliber.

1:28:20 Speaker 1: I've got plenty of two two three m I'm using iron sights, and I'm doing it for a reason. Okay, iron sights are the hardest to shoot. From that this is old school. If you can shoot with an iron sight and put bolts on the target, you can shoot any Okay, so you've gotten spoiled now with this laser something, We're gonna.

1:28:37 Speaker 12: Go back to old school on an arf sorry.

1:28:42 Speaker 1: So believe it or not. With an iron sight, you see where those trees are in the back there three hundred meters nine hundred feet for militarium. If she wouldn't shoot sniper, I had to shoot that every time.

1:28:53 Speaker 2: Where the rocket is way up there.

1:28:55 Speaker 1: That's oh yeah, I was shut Yeah, absolutely, bro. Common theme here is we keep talking about the term national security. And I know you're here to interview me, but let me let me interview you just for a moment, if I may, if I if you'll indulge me, how do we This is a sandbox here, right. Let's say there's a technology. Now there's a toy that there's twelve kids in the sandbox, but there's only one toy, right. This toy has the ability to let everybody play together and be nice. The problem is human nature is such that most kids, most governments in this case using it as an analogy, are going to want that toy for themselves.

1:29:42 Speaker 1: How do we share the toy? How do we use this? Because we know there's countries out there that if they had a certain type of technology, they would probably employ it very quickly to their advantage. And I'm not saying we have never done it because we have we dropped the bomb. We did. We're the only country that ever dropped the new you know well Adam bomb, and that was us, you know. So we'd like to say we're afraid of it. Well it don't look now, but we did. We were the ones who did it. For good or bad, are and different, right, that's a fact, established fact.

1:30:07 Speaker 1: So countries will use technology if they feel that they have to in a time of conflict. With this type of technology, if we were to come together and say, look, we really can do better as humanity. We don't have to fight each other right now, this is on the backdrop right now of Hamas and Israel, Ukraine and Russia. Right, we have issues in Africa, We have issues right now with China and the South China Sea and Taiwan and the US and the world is on fire. Doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on, I think we can all agree that the world is a very dangerous and violent place right now.

1:30:41 Speaker 1: Right this technology has the chance to either bring us together or completely rip us apart once and for all, right, like there's no coming back. How do you solve that problem?

1:30:58 Speaker 2: It's a very hard problem.

1:31:00 Speaker 4: This solve But it's only the hardest problem, the effort you have to You have.

1:31:04 Speaker 2: To raise people's consciousness in step with a slow dissemination of the thin or something.

1:31:12 Speaker 1: But how do you stop that temptation, because all it takes is one selfish kid to ruin it for the rest, Remember one kid, Mike Toy.

1:31:20 Speaker 4: Probably just show them the good ways in which this technology could be used before you even just tell them that.

1:31:28 Speaker 1: Who does that? Who's going to take the moral high road and say I give to you this technology and you shall use it for peaceful means? Who has that? Who has that moral authority? Who's trusted enough in the world to do that and to say you will use it for this but not for that?

1:31:50 Speaker 11: Who?

1:31:50 Speaker 4: I think it's probably going to be just a collective move and something that is like an emergent property of a lot of good people with good minds and good hearts coming together.

1:32:01 Speaker 1: To who is the United Nations?

1:32:03 Speaker 4: I think it is?

1:32:04 Speaker 11: It?

1:32:04 Speaker 1: Is it society written large?

1:32:07 Speaker 2: Well this maybe the NHI, maybe the entities themselves. I mean, we were with James Fox the other week in Austin, great guy, and I was talking to him and he was like, I'm making all these documentaries and the thing that has come up after decades of doing research on the UFO subject. Whenever I'm about to find smoking gun proof of UFOs, I have you know a video here, a picture here, you know, an amazing eyewitness, the thing disappears. There's some like ephemeral bizarre thing about that. And then if we were talking about the nuclear connection as well, it's almost like there is a counter intel on the part of the NHI themselves where it's like mass surveillance and it is it is there right when it needs to be there, and things will disappear, and it's our most precious assets.

1:32:57 Speaker 2: It's our nuclear assets. They'll get by our most intense encryption from the NSA. And so my answer to that would be like, it's like the three body problem. They know we're going to blow ourselves up, so they clamp down on the science, and they're responsible for a lot of the productive science.

1:33:13 Speaker 1: Would humanity be okay with an overlord an NHI babysitter? Is that freedom? Are you really free?

1:33:20 Speaker 11: Then?

1:33:20 Speaker 1: If an Nhi were to come down and say, okay, folks, this is a reality, ha ha ha. We've been kind of playing with you a little bit. But here's reality. You're all going to play well with each other. You're all gonna be able to enjoy this free energy and whatnot, but you're gonna play by our rules. Now what happens Now, what happens to free will? At that point, humanity is faced with the reality potentially that we're not the alpha species, right and now that we have to do what something or someone else tells us to do.

1:33:52 Speaker 1: Is that free manifestation? Is that the ability for us to live our lives the way we want to live our lives, or the way we are told to live our lives.

1:34:03 Speaker 4: But isn't isn't that already happening in some version of reality with people believing that, you know, end of the world is true.

1:34:10 Speaker 1: Us governments, Look, we've been told to do all that. My government's religion in a situations, organizations, social clubs, absolutely ptas. I mean, I can't tell you how many societies are out there and you know, tell you how to live your life. Well, I mean, look, and they're not all bad. But we're in a place right now that has specific rules on, you know, how one should live their life.

1:34:30 Speaker 2: But wouldn't these entities I thought, this is what I thought you were going to say, aren't they already in control? And it's just about our awareness of whether they're control or not. I once I got breakfast with Tom DeLong, who I know you worked with that too, the Stars Academy, and he was saying that he thought that a lot of these Nhi are not great, and that they are like ar cons from the kind of Gnostic tradition and they kind of rule over the material world sort of thing.

1:34:57 Speaker 1: I you know, I I I'm always very careful not to share my opinion because my opinion doesn't matter at the end of the day. What matters is your opinion. It's again back to the question I had about this little sandbox. Right, you've got this double edged sword. You want to be able to give it to everybody, but not everybody's going to play. The old children are very nice to each other. And we still I mean, like I said, look at today's right now around the world, the world on fire, we still don't play well with each other.

1:35:22 Speaker 1: Are we ready? And I'm going and it's not a yes or no, I mean, I don't know you answer that we are we ready, truly ready for the truth to come out? Will we do the right thing, or will we do what we have always done in the past, always, there's not one exception where we didn't use it against one another.

1:35:46 Speaker 4: I'd like to believe that it's that we will make a better choice.

1:35:50 Speaker 1: I think, can we take a chance. Are you willing to take a chance on it?

1:35:55 Speaker 2: The specifics matter in the hypothetical, Yeah.

1:35:58 Speaker 1: They do, they do. But you understand where I'm going with this, right, So we're talking now that we're not we're beyond really the everybody said by one of the truth? Okay, but but how much of the truth do you want to know? And how much should we know? And then what do we do with it? And can we be trusted with it? Right? So there's a there's a cascading series of questions that come after that, philosophically speaking, And you know, it goes back down to the point where in the original conversation that hal Putoff discussed with you about public they can't believe you did that about the White House in two thousand and four.

1:36:30 Speaker 1: Are we ready to tell the American people the truth about UFOs? Yep?

1:36:49 Speaker 1: You know, until recently, I'd never seen close encounters the third kind. I found it really interesting that Spielberg got a lot of it right. Well, I was like, wow, Colt, yeah, he actually gets a Ninjack vallet. I guess it was assistant for a while. I mean I found that fascinating that. I was like, wow, some of these observables were like textbook right out of.

1:37:13 Speaker 2: The radiation damage.

1:37:15 Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

1:37:17 Speaker 2: One piece of that movie, outside of there being crates that say tr W and skunk works that I think are pretty pretty fascinating around this topic is out of the craft. Not only are these gray aliens, but World War two soldiers come out of the craft. And there's actually a conversation that Steven Spielberg, who probably knew a lot about this topic, you know, grew up writing about this stuff, so clearly very into UFOs. He had a conversation with this guy, Robert Leefield, I think that the creator of Deadpool, and he says, what do you think is more likely?

1:37:49 Speaker 2: Is it future versions of ourselves guarding us in the present, or is it you know, random you know aliens from Zeta retiicula or whatever. And so that was that was his view. And if you look at a lot of the database, it's like the Edgar Mitchell database, over fifty percent of the cases report hominid like creatures. Sure, and so the likelihood of evolutionary convergence on random XYZ planet with totally different conditions feels very low compared to you know, you're seeing a thing that looks like us.

1:38:17 Speaker 2: In fact, you're seeing a thing in the gray alien that looks like what we are evolving into. Our ears and nose are becoming vestigial, our heads are becoming selected for.

1:38:27 Speaker 4: So I guess unless they're trying to just give us a form that can be closer to our understanding of what a living being is like if a jellyfish, why not just like that?

1:38:37 Speaker 2: But why not just look like that's fair? That's fair. Do you think that we'll ever have time travel in our lifetime? And the reason I ask is because there's a guy named Mike Masters. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's an evolutionary biologist at Montana Tech University, and he's written a couple of interesting books, one called Identified Flying Objects, another one called Extra Tempestrials, And it's about this idea that actually, if you use basic inductive logic around the UFO phenomena.

1:39:04 Speaker 2: It's more likely us from the future or US time traveling versions of us, than it is extraterrestrials.

1:39:12 Speaker 1: So the problem with time travel is that in our current understanding of physics in the universe, you can only have that the the the mass in the universe is definitive matter. There's only so much matter or energy. There's there's a there's a there's a limit.

1:39:32 Speaker 5: It is.

1:39:33 Speaker 1: It is what it is from the beginning to the end. That doesn't change. You convert ultimately matter into energy, but there's only so much of it. And if I were to go back in time, even just me go back even five minutes ago, I'd be going into a universe where the mass was x and now it's x plus loup, even though there's because there's already a loue back there technically, So you would have to figure out a way to overcome that.

1:40:02 Speaker 2: Two possible ways to overcome that issue. One is if the universe is information theoretic or something that would be one, so it's sort of computation.

1:40:11 Speaker 1: Correction, especially like in a holographic and very correct correct.

1:40:14 Speaker 2: And then number two would be if we are sort of our own universes unto ourselves and we have consistent lifelines, but we can time travel. The whole thing sort of updates back around us. Sure, as we are sort of the universe viewing itself, is.

1:40:31 Speaker 1: Time travel possible? I don't know. You don't quantum physics. When you get down to space time at the very very small level, the notion of space time breaks down entirely. The same thing in let's say a black hole. Right, once you get past that events, when you get towards a singularity, space and time is twisted so much and that the very notion of space time breaks down, it doesn't make sense. It's nonsensical. Well, first of all, what is time? Let's look at in reality what is time? What is matter?

1:41:00 Speaker 1: Right, time is a measurement that it takes to travel from point A to point B. That is the definition of time. Okay, what is matter? Matter is in essence, something that occupies space. Then you have to ask a question.

1:41:18 Speaker 2: You could not travel distance and time will still persist.

1:41:21 Speaker 1: By no, Actually that depends.

1:41:24 Speaker 4: No.

1:41:24 Speaker 1: If you have totally the total of the universe, total static universe, time does not exist. The only way time exists is if you have a comparison of motion so once the universe. One of the theories that the universe will eventually expand expand expand, and then eventually every thing in even the atoms, the electrons will stop spinning. And when that occurs on the last atom in the farthest piece of the universe, time stops. Because there's no way to measure time anymore. So let's start with a fundamental basic question of matter.

1:41:55 Speaker 1: Because you met, time can only be measured with a motion of matter to some degree. So what is matter and what is space? Well, matter occupy space. Can you have space without matter? Yes? Can you have matter without space?

1:42:12 Speaker 4: No?

1:42:13 Speaker 1: There must be something for matter to exist within. Now let's say hypothetically Amar pops into the universe. Nothing around him. Here, I am universe, but I don't know what the universe is because there's nothing else to compare it to. It's just empty space. Right all of a sudden, Now you pop into the universe and you see a mar Right now, you have no idea the notion of distance or scale with just two things in the universe, because you both could be the size of an atom, or you both could be the size of galaxies.

1:42:48 Speaker 1: There's no way to compare, right, and same with distance. You know that he's there, but is there ten light years or is it ten feet or is it ten inches? Right, Only when AMR starts to move from you, you can start saying there's motion, but you still don't know speed or distance. You just see motion. Now all of a sudden, I pop into the reality. Now there's three of us, right, and now you can start for the first time looking at scalability heat. A mark can compare me to you and say, lou is one third denser than you.

1:43:24 Speaker 1: You are one third taller than I am, right, and in comparison, then a mark can look at himself, okay, and I'm kind of somewhere in the middle.

1:43:32 Speaker 2: There's some baseline and that becomes a unit of measurement.

1:43:35 Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly exactly.

1:43:37 Speaker 2: But the question I have is if you just leave biology sort of in existence, it will decant like h enthopianetrophy.

1:43:44 Speaker 1: But but that doesn't mean necessarily when when that decay is complete, meaning all motion stops. That's what decay is. It's the movement of separation of matter atoms from each other. Right, that's decay or decomposition. But when that stops, and I mean stops even at the atomic level, electrons cease to spin around the nucleus of an atom. Time stops. There's no reference for time, there's no way to measure it. Time does it keep going because there's no reference to measure it. It now becomes nonsensical.

1:44:17 Speaker 1: And so that and there is part of the problem abut time, because time, to some degree is a invention of human beings. It is that fourth dimension. You have three dimensional space, time being a function of the fourth dimension. But time is relative, and we now know that through Einstein observations relativity. Looking at, for example, geosynchronous satellites that are orbiting the Earth, the atomic ca caesium clock that is on that spacecraft runs distinctly different than the ground station clock, even though it's the exact same atomic caesium clock.

1:44:49 Speaker 1: And that's because the massive Earth is affecting the ground station clock more than more than the spacecraft up there. Right, that's right, we'll move in as well. So we really need to understand what is matter, what is space, and what is time. Those are the fundamental real elements of the universe. Forget about particles, just just the notion of space, matter or mass out time.

1:45:19 Speaker 2: How put Off thinks that maybe the way these crafts UFOs move is by manipulating space time metric through promoting gravity basically from a constant to a field variable.

1:45:33 Speaker 1: Correct. Correct? Do you think that that's possible, That's that's what we were looking at a tip, that's absolutely the fundamental theory. That's not a possibility, that's that's exactly what the mathematical formulas are are are are suggesting.

1:45:50 Speaker 2: Do you think in some ways that you know, like the idea of signature management, like there's some way in which the what's being recollected is sort of managed in some way, you.

1:46:01 Speaker 1: Know, some people, some people have speculated that when you look at the old UFO pictures and compare them today, there's an evolution and that people are seeing what is in their current construct for them to understand. Others suggest now that these technical vehicles have been around for a very long time. One of the photos you showed me there, I was a little bit skeptical of the one that shows them like old little rocket ship because when you look at the back end, by the way, there's been a lot of hoaxes that have come out.

1:46:30 Speaker 1: When you look at the end of that rocket ship, there's a cone like this an exhaust cone that is for rocket propelled combustion. UAPs don't use that, they have no visible Well, what do you guys think about this topic from your perspective and your views on how this is now playing out on the international scale, the international stage of this conversation.

1:46:55 Speaker 2: Well, I see two things. One is that it's just it's this cynical, kind of condescending treatment of the American people that they just can't think for themselves. They can't handle the truth. And I actually think a lot of the world right now, you know, organized religion is in decline, and to your point, louse this fact, this greater ontological truth is marrying the religion of today, which is really science, with past religions because we're looking at something that is observable in a modern context in the form of UAPs.

1:47:30 Speaker 2: This is studiable, but then it comports with all these religious texts and actually a more magical version of the universe that you know, is much easier. It's it's the way skeptics, the way Christopher Hitchens and Bill Maher, you know, these sorts are Sam Harris write off religion. So I think this kind of lame, low energy, you know, early Cold War, thinking that it would just be too destabilizing is just dumb at this point. And then there's the side of American national security, which is equally absurd.

1:47:57 Speaker 2: It's equally like if in the world, which this is real, which I'm pretty bought into this being real, it's like you have this cargo cult of national security apparatus where the left hand can't talk to the right hand, nobody has the proper scientific frameworks, and it's like, I get deep into some of these things, and like, I don't I feel uncomfortable reporting on some of the stuff that I learned because I'm like, is there anybody there? Like I'm not trying to poke a hornet's nest gratuitously. I just want the whole thing to shift in a way that's more coordinated for our national security because I'm very pro America.

1:48:34 Speaker 2: And so that frustrates me because it's like there's no one to talk to, like who's in charge, like what's going on? There clearly have been efforts in the past. I'll ttsa to like get this stuff out, you know, in a safe way, And I actually empathize with some of these people who are involved in those efforts because they're not the president of the United States, and it's and they were tasked by three letter agencies to do things that they didn't really want to do, you know, years ago, but like it's too little and too late or something like we need to do it now and we need to just kind of like reorganize all this stuff.

1:49:10 Speaker 2: So it's like those two things like personal meaning and you know, the way everybody should comport themselves and live their lives and view religion and metaphysics. And then this other thing is this American national security thing, which is it's a tragedy, Like I don't understand what's going on there.

1:49:25 Speaker 4: As someone who is guided by the phrase seek this comfort in my life, I think this is probably one of the greatest ways one can seek this comfort, to just like reconsider these assumptions that we've made about reality and what this could all be.

1:49:45 Speaker 7: There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image. To me, it underscores our responsibility and to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

1:50:12 Speaker 4: I think we've reached the level of maturity that that a part of the reason of that the you know, the phenomenon is becoming a mainstream topic and more and more people are getting are becoming aware of it is because I think we have we are getting there as like in terms of our collective consciousness, and more people are waking up. And I think events like COVID have accelerated that by by by a whole lot that now, you know, trust in government isn't all Is it an all time low? Trust in in mass media is it an all time low?

1:50:42 Speaker 4: And I think people are just realizing that government lies all the time, and you know you have and you.

1:50:49 Speaker 1: Know why because government is made of people. Yeah, government is made of people. People lie.

1:50:56 Speaker 2: There's something that that people believe.

1:50:59 Speaker 4: There's something that can to my mind, when you were asking that question, was Terrence McKenna talking about one time he the mushrooms told him that we what we're going through is right now is is like the final step before we venture into the into the stars. Yeah, break through And it's like it's a fire and a mad house and just all this chaos is happening because you know, we're on the precipice of just a massive paradigm shift. And that's what it like, intuitively and inside of me. It's even part of my interest in me pursuing this topic is because I really feel like we're at the cusp of something really major happening.

1:51:36 Speaker 4: And a part of that is, you know, your efforts and you know throughout the past two decades, and you know, twenty seventeen with just putting the videos a on a platform that was, you know, perceived as as a trusted one as The New York Times, and that story coming out has definitely was the beginning of the shift that we're that allows us to be sitting with.

1:51:54 Speaker 1: These I don't I think. I think you guys are the reasons why we're having this conversation because it could have fell in deaf ears and nobody would care. My generation didn't care that much, yours did. You're the reason why this topic is where it is today.

1:52:11 Speaker 22: Not me.

1:52:12 Speaker 1: I may have, you know, struck the match, but this bonfire, this wildfire, that's you guys. You guys are the wind. You guys have taken that little look. Fires are made all the time and they go nowhere. They're extinguished with the next rain, or they're extinguished because you don't have enough tender, they don't have enough oxygen. This is a raging wildfire. And it's not because of me. I can't take credit for that. It's because of what your generation has done with It's what you.

1:52:38 Speaker 4: And if strength, if there's strength in numbers, then I think our numbers are predamn good. Like I think there's way more good people that want good things to happen with disclosure and with more people being aware that the reality is so much greater than we ever thought. And also the dissemination of information is now exists in a way that it cannot be controlled. And I think this is the new variable that that hasn't existed, you know in the previous decades as this topic became, you know, as the secrecy of the topic became more and more like affirm So so I think now you can't you can't stop a United pilot from posting a TikTok saying that he just saw something crazy, that's right, you know, Like and I think what it was last week two pilots in Saudi Arabia or flying and they saw some crazy this is not a plane and it's and they're like right there, they uploaded the video as soon as they land there, right, And I think those are the things that just you know, the US government or any government that didn't have to deal with twenty years ago.

1:53:38 Speaker 1: I will also say too, I think the you know, society, in some cases, I think has gotten I hate to say the word dumber in some cases. But I will also tell you I think it's also gone a hell a lot smarter. When I was your age to have a conversation like this, I was too busy chasing girls, working as a bouncer. You know, here we are three people in our nation's capital having a conversation what may be the quintessential topic of humanity and the where we go as society forward is in your hands. And so for things like that and your audience's hands.

1:54:25 Speaker 1: When I when I get to meet and engage with people like you and your audience, it gives me faith. It restores my faith in our species because you, guys, and your your audience, your generation are not excuse upon, but light years ahead of where where my generation was. And for that, it gives me a lot of hope that maybe we can handle the truth. Maybe, maybe you know what, maybe we can find a way where the kids in the sandbox can play together, right if you can't give them you can't break the toy in twelve piece.

1:55:00 Speaker 1: Maybe you put it in the middle of the sandbox and rather than letting every child takes turns playing with it, you make a game where all the kids play with it at once, right, so you don't have to divide the toy. So that's why I was trying to think that we could get to in this conversation. You know, you have twelve kids in the sandbox, You've got one toy. How do you share it?

1:55:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's simultaneous, simult.

1:55:23 Speaker 1: You don't share it. What you do is you create the game where all of them get to play with it at the same time. And that's how you do it.

1:55:33 Speaker 4: Are you exhausted of just talking about this and and and spending the last few years of your life just being so deep and that probably the way you, like, I would assume like that. It's almost like connections in your life to other human beings are probably predominantly led by the topic like does it Does it ever get to you on a personal level?

1:55:54 Speaker 1: Wow? Yeah, But not in the way that you might think.

1:56:05 Speaker 1: I'm pretty tired, I'm physically mentally, emotionally, I don't know how much more I have because it's been a multi front battle for me. It's not just an esoteric conversation. It's a conversation that the stakes couldn't be higher. And there are elements there that don't want me to have a conversation at all, and I'm working very hard to keep me quiet. And you know, there's days I wake up honestly and say I made a mistake. I never should have I never should have come out and told people. And then there's other times I wake up and get to talk to people like you, and I say, Okay, it's worth it.

1:56:47 Speaker 1: It's worth it, no matter what happens to me, it's worth it. But at the end of the day, dude, I'm just human, you know, and I'm not perfect. And I get tired like everybody else. I get cranky and angry like everybody else. And you know, I think my biggest concern is a lot of people look at me and and they ascribe the trade to me that's first of all undeserving and and not earned. You know, they're like, oh, this guy has got this, you know, super insight and intellect. And I don't just as lost and confuses everybody else.

1:57:21 Speaker 1: He just happened to have access to some information that I think is worth talent because, you know, just given a job, and the results of that were very you know, I think very very important for us to communicate to our fellow men and women and our fellow citizens. But I don't have all the answers. You know, I'm on the same journey as you, you know, and people look at me as you know, almost like Moses on the mountain, right, and you know, let's ask glu let's confer with a great oracle.

1:57:50 Speaker 2: I'm not that guy.

1:57:53 Speaker 1: I'm not that guy. I'm down the mountain, off the mountain with you. I'm we're shoulder and the shoulder man. That's you know. I'm looking for answers, just like you, and you know, always being true to yourself and being honest, being able to admit that and tell people a lot of people think, well, you know the people you have all the answers, Well, yes, I have all the answer.

1:58:13 Speaker 22: You know what.

1:58:13 Speaker 1: I am special and dog gone. I deserve to be treated special. And that's all horseshit. That's an ego and you gotta, you gotta get rid of that ship. You know, this conversation is far more profound, far more important, and it can't be about any single one person. I'm just a messenger, man, and that's it, you know. I don't confuse the message with the messenger because I'm I am far from perfect. I am not. I've made a lot of mistakes in my life, a lot of regrets I have, you know, and that's what makes me.

1:58:42 Speaker 14: Human, you know.

1:58:43 Speaker 4: So, yeah, Lou, are you hopeful?

1:58:54 Speaker 1: I have two daughters the greatest accomplishment and create and and I have the greatest accomplishment of my life. I will never come close to ever doing anything like that again.

1:59:10 Speaker 1: I have to be hopeful for them, even if there's some cynicism in me. I have to, you know. I often tell people I love humanity. It's humans I don't like, because on an individual basis it can be very selfish and mean and spiteful, and you know, but humanity at large I love. I love, you know, a lot of my feed on on on social media is really it's it sounds silly, it's embarrassing, but it's it's looking at dogs and cats and animals doing funny things and and and and communicating with their owners. You know that to me is that gives me hope.

1:59:49 Speaker 1: You know, you can turn on the news and see all sorts of terrible things all day long, but then there's some sites where you can turn onto and all of a sudden, it's just it's just real joy, right, And what is choy Well, ultimately, at the end of the day, it's one of the universe. It's it's tied to one of the most important things in the universe, which is love. Without love, there's no purpose.

2:00:09 Speaker 4: Do you think do you think that's the reason whoever they are or interested in us? Do you think it has something to do with our capacity for love? I couldn't tell you because there's just always a specific interview that actually doctor John mac conducted with some of the witnesses from the Aerial school, and it's this girl from Zimbabwe that was recounting her experience, and he goes to kind of like try to get her perspective for why she thinks the visitors were there that she interacted with face to face, and she had had theopathic downloads, and she goes, I think in space there's no love, but down here there is.

2:00:47 Speaker 4: And I remember the first time I watched that I like completely broke down hearing it because something in it just felt like like truth to me.

2:00:55 Speaker 1: Love is Love is life, and the reason why we live is to love, I believe.

2:01:06 Speaker 14: Now.

2:01:07 Speaker 1: The problem is in the absence of love, there is fear, and fear drives many things. It drives hatred and animosity and violence. But love is the opposite. Love is, for me, the reason why we even exist. Without it, there is no purpose, there's no reason. It's it's we are automatons. We are chemicals put together in a soup, and that's it. Love is what gives life meaning. And I say that because I've seen both the best of man and the worst of man, all within seconds of each other. You know, it's a shame because on one hand, I spend so much of my time ripping apart, you know, people with conflict.

2:01:58 Speaker 1: I would like to spend the rest of my life helping put people back together. Love is very is. It is the most important thing out there.

2:02:06 Speaker 2: If you were speaking to the average STEM student science and engineering student in America, knowing what you know, how would you tell them to navigate middle school, high school, college, and study the world? Given the reality of UFOs in an academic context, because they're probably given the wrong framework.

2:02:30 Speaker 1: I would say sometimes to see clearly, you have to close your eyes. Study not only with your mind, but study with your heart, because that emotional part of us is just as important, if not even more important, than our intellect. If you want to understand what's going on out there, you have to first understand what's going on in here. There's no way around it, there's no shortcut.

2:02:57 Speaker 2: Wow, the word eminent, you know, well, you right. Actually, in the forward of the book you say, this is not meant that there's, you know, some sort of imminent threat. Necessarily, But I'm not gonna lie. When I spend time with you, We've spent a decent amount of time together. I get the sense that you're sitting on things that feel like very hard truths. It feels like your existence, like you want to say more, and you feel like you are you're holding it together. And that's a tough spot to be in.

2:03:31 Speaker 2: And so to the extent you can talk about what might be imminent, what is imminent?

2:03:40 Speaker 1: Time is not a luxury that we can afford. The time has come. We need to start having the conversation. Collectively. We should should have had it a while ago, but we really need to. We really need to start having a conversation.

2:03:59 Speaker 2: I can't think of a better note too.

2:04:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, and awesome, guys, absolute honor for us.

2:04:06 Speaker 2: Really appreciate it.

2:04:07 Speaker 1: Absolute brother.

2:04:10 Speaker 3: All right, man, you got it.

2:04:11 Speaker 1: Brother, Thank you for what you guys do. Man, thank you. That was awesome. We got it.

2:04:17 Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning into this episode. Let me know what you thought in the comments. And a final announcement if you are worthy and have made it to this point in the video, I'm starting a discord. The link is discord dot gg slash Jesse Michaels, Michaels with no A, please join it. We're gonna be talking about all sorts of crazy stuff, secret science, core UFO truths, and the nature of reality. We explored a lot of themes with Lou in this interview, but if there's a particularly important one that I'd like to emphasize, it's that the left hand path, aligning oneself with supernatural forces without the proper intention almost always ends badly.

2:04:53 Speaker 2: It certainly did for Jack Parsons, father of the American Space Program, who blew himself up, but it did for Foul, and it did for Prometheus before hints seeking forbidden knowledge and getting burned is perhaps the most primordial human story. Seeking the grace of God, on the other hand, is always available and infinitely more powerful. This recalls a quote from the nineteenth century French author Charles Baudelaire, who wrote that the greatest trick the devil ever told was convincing the world he does not exist.

2:05:24 Speaker 2: My favorite variation of that quote is the Rene Gerard version. The second trick of the devil is convincing you he does. While Lou hints sometimes that the world is surrounded by entities that we may considered not super great or bad. They are often paper thin and only as powerful as you make them. So focus on the right things until next week. My name's Jesse Michaels. Thank you for tanning in.

2:05:49 Speaker 1: I'm okay with the idea that you know in my lifetime, I'm not going to have all the answers, and that's okay because that's what makes life worthliving.

2:06:00 Speaker 5: Fo