Dr Irena Scott PhD- The Great UFO flap Of 1973- Aliens UFOs and The Apocalypse

0:01 Speaker 1: Ah, all right, and we're back with the wonderful doctor Irena Scott. Uh Irene, thank you, Irena, thank you for being here today. It's always amazing to have you on the show.

0:19 Speaker 2: And you have a new book.

0:20 Speaker 1: You have a new book coming out and it is Aliens and the Apocalypse. Just you know, we've already had a conversation, We've gone through your origins, so I just want to really quickly say hello.

0:36 Speaker 2: And thank you for being back on the show.

0:39 Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. I'm very happy to be here.

0:42 Speaker 2: Right right, So where did you come up with so well?

0:47 Speaker 1: After the Pascor Gula book and you know, sadly, you know, we lost Calvin Parker and it was just just just a really tough time, but dory watershed moment for that case. I think you guys did a wonderful job expanding upon the data that was already there and extrapolating even more. That just kind of painted the picture. It just painted a picture of what happened that night. I think it is Uh Now, what are the what are the best documented cases?

1:27 Speaker 3: Yes, it's probably the best documented of any UFO case. And UFO close encounters are one thing that are not well documented at all. I mean, most people have close encounters or report abductions, it's help by themselves. They don't remember anything, they don't remember it until years later. There's no other witnesses. Well, in this case, there was a whole lot of documentation. There were other there were many many witnesses that saw something unusual at the time. And there was possibly another abduction the same time, around the same time, by the same object, possibly right.

2:07 Speaker 1: And that's and that's one of the aspects of the case that I you know, you always wonder, right in any abduction case, especially one like that, you know, why was why then?

2:23 Speaker 2: Why only them?

2:24 Speaker 1: And it seems that that that that wasn't the case, that there were more, there was another potential abduction that takes that took place, and that really really resonated I think with with audiences because or or not audiences, but the community. But from that case, that was in nineteen seventy three, Now you wrote a book about aliens and the apocalypse. So you went from you know, a very angular case to something that's a little bit more wide, wide angled, And why did you choose to do that?

3:09 Speaker 2: So what sparked this book?

3:11 Speaker 3: I had been thinking about it for a long time, and we're, well, that happened in nineteen seventy three. A lot of things happened in nineteen seventy three, such as there was a huge UFO wave. There was also the government was in disarray with Nixon resigning and everything like that. Plus there was a threat of nuclear war, one of the biggest threats there was. And then things sort of calmed down for about fifty years. And now we're fifty years from nineteen seventy three when Pasagoula happened, and it's like we're repeating the whole thing again.

3:57 Speaker 3: There's there seems to be a there's more UFO sightings and the government is actually taking them somewhat seriously. Plus there's a threat in nuclear war again.

4:12 Speaker 2: Right, And it's it's almost uh.

4:16 Speaker 1: And I asked you before we started recording, do you know what what felt worse, you know then or now? And you you said, you, you know, you it's it's hard to tell, you know. And and I think the current the current, so the current geopolitical arena, let's just say it's tense, uh, to say the least.

4:44 Speaker 3: Uh.

4:44 Speaker 1: So, when we're talking about aliens and the apocalypse, my first thought goes to UFOs and nuclear facilities. This this common theme that seems to occur, and in the book I assume that you elaborate on this phenomen.

5:09 Speaker 3: I don't elaborate too. I just mentioned that it's something that's on everybody's mind because we can blow ourselves up now, and there's a threat again which we haven't heard much about for quite a while. But they're coming up with new weapons like hypersonic missiles and things like that that go right through and nobody can stop them. And a lot of countries are developing their missiles too and sending things into space. So we've got a lot more to worry about than we.

5:44 Speaker 2: Have a long Yeah, and.

5:52 Speaker 1: You know, I think I think just nuclear weapons in general are are such there's so it's so stupid. I hate to be so crude about it, but like it is idiotic to think of using such a weapon. But my fear is some like bad actor or state actor that you know, some sort of false flag is initiated and pits the larger powers against it or against them them, And you know, would would would UFOs, would whoever occupies them? Do you think that they have a vested interest in either humanity or is it the planet itself.

6:45 Speaker 3: Well, I think that maybe they're suggesting that we change some of our ways because we've always thought of the end of the world as like from the outside, such as asteroids hitting us, a volcanoes going off or something like that. But in this case, we may do it ourselves. And that's stupid.

7:09 Speaker 1: As you said, yeah, very but you know, not funny, that's not the correct term. But the end of the world has been spoken about since Man wrote, you know, since since man began writing. And there's an argument that UFOs may have or or like aliens may have been around for as long as mankind has been here as well. So do you think that there's any correlation between our religious texts and our view of the end of the world and alien intervention.

7:54 Speaker 3: Well, we've always worried about the end of the world, and before with the religious texts, sometimes it came from the deity, whatever deity, different religions had that the deaa decided to get rid of us, like we're you know, insects or something. But now it's different because we can kill ourselves. It's not a deity, it's not an asteroid, it's us and they the UFOs may be sending us messages to have ourselves check our own social order and our own ideas about how to solve problems instead of thinking it's something external.

8:47 Speaker 1: Okay, And what are so what is the evidence that you've gathered that suggests that there is messages being sent that they are trying to whatever they are or whoever they are.

9:04 Speaker 2: What messages?

9:07 Speaker 1: You know?

9:07 Speaker 2: What?

9:07 Speaker 3: What?

9:08 Speaker 2: What are you citing? What are some of the messages?

9:11 Speaker 1: Because I mean, I know of cases where you know, they talk about, you know, you're destroying your planet. Seems to be a common theme. So I'm just you know, seeing if that's what you're what you're getting at.

9:27 Speaker 3: Well, one thing I'm getting at is that the messages are not what we expect. We've always had like a conquista door social order where it's called you know, survival of the fittest or whatever, where one person or one thing has power and they destroy something else, such as Darwin's theory of evolutionary things, and we based things on that. But the and so if we've had the war, the world's seen in the scenario of the aliens coming in killing us everything. Oh, and we're like that when a more powerful civilization in humanity takes over, well, they are not good for the less powerful civilization, and so we're worried about that.

10:28 Speaker 3: But and we have a very male culture where we have the idea that males created the human race by chipping off rocks and killing animals and things and competitive actions. However, in that case, you would expect us to view our aliens. It's like powerful men. When we go to other planets the only place we've gone so far as we wear big space suits and we have big men out, you know, walking around sticking flags in the ground and everything, and we sort of expect that for somebody to say, take me to your leader.

11:14 Speaker 3: And that's not the appearance that the aliens are giving us. We don't really know what they look like, but the appearance in the media is of slender beings that look like females and their children and that don't have They're not wearing space suits or gas or breathing apparatus or anything else. They're completely different than what we expect. And I was saying that maybe this is a message that we should pay more attention to our other elements besides the males, such as females and young people instead of the male idea of power and physical power.

12:04 Speaker 2: Right.

12:05 Speaker 1: So, and and you're absolutely I think you are right when you when you do look around and uh, there's a lot of this this these cases where the female alien quote unquote alien seems to be the one in charge. I'm sure you're familiar with, uh Chris Bloodsoe and the lady in white. So she she almost represents for Chris, Uh, this angelic uh sort of being, this divine being. So, I mean, you know, the religion's kind of being put onto it. But if I'm looking at it, you know myself, I just non human intelligence, is what I say.

12:56 Speaker 1: Right, So, I think there are absolutely something to that.

13:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're solving our problems in ways that make our problems worse. And one thing is we think that we were created by men going out with sharpening rocks and killing things and having competitive interactions with the environment. And I was saying that maybe we're solving our problems with something that didn't exist, that that's just fiction, that that's how we started.

13:35 Speaker 1: So and the divine like people talk about the divine feminine, and you know that is you know, our mother Gaya, right, the earth itself almost given uh, this this female identity and then you know, juxtaposed to humanity, it seems to be almost a cancer on it, play to destroy it. So there that is is it is haunting because you're right, it is a lot of alpha male syndrome in our.

14:19 Speaker 2: Geopolitics and this.

14:22 Speaker 1: This crude idea of like land ownership and these really just outdated and primitive ways of life or ways of thinking.

14:36 Speaker 3: Yes, I was saying that they're telling us to look inside ourselves and explore how we actually started and rather than have the idea that we started by males fighting and contesting, And I was giving a lot of reasons why the idea of males combat and competition may not be our origin at all, that it might be a totally different origin.

15:16 Speaker 2: So can you expand upon that.

15:19 Speaker 3: Yes, people used to have the idea that through the literature and stuff that we were called it was called the killer ape or the naked ape, that apes coming out of the trees. And then the men made these weapons and started killing everything, and so that made it superior and we took over the world. Well, I think there's a lot of question about that because there's a lot more studies of how animals work, and like humans are primates, primate or animals that live in the trees or live on vegetation were not carnivores.

16:06 Speaker 3: We never were. We're omnivores and the chief food of primates is vegetation. And so that idea of the killer ape isn't exactly where we began. And another thing that's in recent scientific discoveries is they used to always present the male is the fender and the females being dependent on the male. Well, actually, in mammals, which we are, the female usually raises the young themselves. I mean, if a deer has a baby, she doesn't depend on some male fight everybody off.

17:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, and oh that's a that's a really great that's a great visualization. Like yeah, like you said more or you know, audience, h people might resonate with this, uh the mama bear, right, you know this notion of you know, if you see a baby club bear, that mom is not far behind and you need to get the go out of there. You need to you need to move because she at all costs, she is she is willing to defend that that those those cubs and yeah, that that that's absolutely a great point and we are you know, we were.

17:47 Speaker 2: Raised from birth.

17:49 Speaker 1: I mean and literally we are given life from a woman, from always from a female in every singles.

18:02 Speaker 2: Species. And I mean that says something in itself.

18:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want a little bit too, because actually the females the only sex that conveys life to the next generation. Female conveys an egg to the next generation. All Earth life is in cells. The egg is a cell, it goes to the next generation. Many females in different species can reproduced by themselves with no males. The only thing the male actually contributes is less than half of the DNA when they do contribute. Right, So the female does convey life to the next generation. And that puts the males in in come in competition with each other too, because the females can often just have children, right, But the males have to reproduce through a female, and so that makes them a lot more competitive all through the evolution.

19:16 Speaker 2: Right through the through the entire evolutionary chain.

19:20 Speaker 1: Do you think I know this is like I'm going off in the space here, but do you think there's a chance that if there is truly a singular god, that it would actually be a woman, or at least more of a divine won't femininity?

19:39 Speaker 2: If that makes sense, well, I think the original.

19:44 Speaker 3: Idea of religion for most of the time humans have been here has been a female deity, because if you go back and look at all the art and the everything from way back, there's usually the female in the art and in what is viewed as deities. It's only within people have been here for like twenty thousand years. In twenty thousand years, the art shows females, which they call God's statues or all that, but they may just be ancestry ancestral depictions. But only within the last oh four thousand years or so have the males presented the deity as a male.

20:36 Speaker 3: So I think and I imagine that the reason why the deity was originally presented as a female is because the female gave birth to people and they could look back and say, this is my ancestors. She gave birth to.

20:50 Speaker 2: Me, life giver.

20:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, sod of God in itself, you gave life the godly It's honestly, it's a godly power to be able to when you really look at it, to create basically, you know, to create life, to just state life.

21:15 Speaker 2: It's it's almost a godly power that that.

21:20 Speaker 1: Female or or uh feminine or female yeah, female ads. And that's a striking thought that maybe over the years where where males viewed themselves as is centric that alpha male syndrome that we see far so often. I mean, look at our presidential debates or or presidential races. I mean in our military conflicts, they are it's it's all, it's.

21:56 Speaker 2: All alpha male syndrome.

21:59 Speaker 1: And and that that that that that strikes me.

22:05 Speaker 2: It strikes me. And so how are you how are you.

22:08 Speaker 1: Relating aliens in the apocalypse, you know, and in in a way that through Is this something that you think is on the horizon or is this something that is just a generalization.

22:29 Speaker 3: Well you talked about alpha males. Well, I think the idea of that is changing some too, because most mammals reproduced by themselves and don't have a group. Like if you have a cat, she has babies and she takes care of them, and there's no male. When there's groups of animals, often there will be fewer males and they say, well, this is the alpha male, he controls the group. Well, they're studying and they're calling it a harem that the alpha male collects the females and control. And they're studying animal groups now in more detail, and that's not how you form a group.

23:06 Speaker 3: Usually animal groups are formed of related females, like the grandmother and mother and daughters, and the females are the permanent members and the leaders. The males are like to get in there, but they don't control the group. They're looking out for the other males and trying to mate with the females and then another male replaces them. And so the idea of an alpha male, I think, is scientifically going down the drain because it's not how things are organized. But we still are solving our problems with the alpha male idea, even though I think that we're sort of getting not so much seen it that way now scientifically, but we're stilled.

23:54 Speaker 3: There were a lot of books about alpha males and how males, you know, controlled everything, always control everything, ever since the beginning of time, and things like that, and there's a lot of questions about that now. But our politics and our way the countries are getting along with each other, and that sort of thing is still based on the alpha male and the male creating civilization by violence.

24:24 Speaker 2: Yes, so violence and violence being.

24:32 Speaker 1: The wars and war, yeah, exactly, war, corruption, you know, all of it. And it's I mean there there has.

24:50 Speaker 2: This this idea.

24:51 Speaker 1: Of of uh what do they call it? Mutually sure destruction?

25:00 Speaker 2: I mean what is that? What kind of like what kind what? Who thought that.

25:07 Speaker 1: That was going to work or what would be a long term solution? No, that is a band aid on a much larger problem, and that is that we have narcissists who are the ones who are controlling these systems, these world ending systems, and it's it's.

25:32 Speaker 2: It's very very alarming to see it happen.

25:36 Speaker 1: I think, I really, you know, I have hope for humanity and and optimism.

25:45 Speaker 2: But you know, say, say the button was was triggered, do you.

25:50 Speaker 1: Think that that that that aliens would interfere?

25:55 Speaker 3: Well, I worked for the years ago, and at that time people are counting their tests saying owing the story of the world. Well once now you can do a lot more than that in overkill, But I think our social systems are set up for that, and you just need a trigger like the stroll that broke the camel's back or whatever, or they say World War one was started by a punctuation point. You just need one little thing to set it off. And when I work for the DIA, they have everything all over the world targeted so that they have their missiles and everything set so that something, you know, you push the trigger, well they go, the missiles and everything else go all over and smash everything.

26:48 Speaker 3: So it's really set up so it's in a very dangerous way, and just the tiniest little thing could trip it.

27:00 Speaker 2: One miscalculation away on, one misunderstanding away from a problem.

27:10 Speaker 1: And is it true you worked in the DA Is it true that we have a.

27:19 Speaker 2: Use them or lose them policy?

27:23 Speaker 1: So that so if the audience is wondering what I'm saying, if one nuclear weapon has fired our way, we have approximately six minutes. If it's an IF not ICBM, we have approximately I think it's seven minutes. But the president has about six minutes to make a decision. And there's this notion of use it or lose it, and that if one is out of our way, that we launch basically our whole ourt.

28:01 Speaker 3: Well that's the way it was set up. I hope they have more controls over now and more people decide than just the present pushing a button. Because I remember Nixon, they said he was drunk, and the White House and everything with a nuclear button there and all these missiles, and so I hope they have more control than that now. But yeah, I think we're set up and our social organization is set up that way. And in my book, I was saying that maybe they're saying to us that we should question our social organization.

28:36 Speaker 3: That the idea of like survival of the fittest, that the fittest arrives and the other one dies isn't really what happens in the real world, because like I have DearS in my yard all the time. The males will fight and one big male will be there and another younger male come up and he'll shake his head and then they sort of side whether they want to fight or not, and then you know, toss around everything. But no, they don't kill each other. I mean then one walks away and the other goes the other way.

29:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, the fittest survives, but so is the other one, and the other one grows up and gets to be a big deer and so on. So I don't I think that all or none thing is not exactly the way things work.

29:23 Speaker 2: Well, it's not.

29:24 Speaker 1: It's such a oh my god, it's such a scary thing to think about, and oh god, it gives me the shivers every time I think of of nuclear weapons. And you know, you spoke about it earlier. I have I have this theory and I wanted to run it by you. Not maybe not a theory, but you talked about the UFO flop of the seventies, and it seems now I can't exactly pinpoint it, but between the months of maybe September to question Mark that there was in nineteen seventy three at least and across the world, that there was an abd an exponential growth in UFO sightings and experiences.

30:29 Speaker 2: I go through many of.

30:32 Speaker 1: The most prolific UFO personalities, and many of them who have had sightings had them during this nineteen seventy three nineteen seventy four period, and I find it very, very weird, and well, not weird, but there's a commonality.

30:53 Speaker 2: So I wanted to I know we're kind of going.

30:56 Speaker 1: Backwards, but can you tell me more about the flap that happened back then?

31:04 Speaker 3: Yes, I think that was a number of authors have said this is the largest waiver flap that ever happened anytime there were vast numbers of UFOs, and like my book, my two books covered past Segoula and that reported abduction. But my parents were living in Ohio and there was a big flap going on there too, such the newspaper here in Columbus reported that I think there were one hundred and fifty UFO reports like on one night, which is just amazing. And there were a town, I think Wheeling, West Virginia, almost had a riot.

31:51 Speaker 3: There were so many UFO reports and just on one night, and it sort of built up. I mean, it sort of started in the early nineteen seventy, but in the fall suddenly there were just huge numbers of UFO reports. And I remember talking to my parents and my mother told me that people were hiding in their basements and keeping their kids in and things just like a war was going on. Leonard Stringfield from Ohio wrote a situation Read and several books like that, where he said, you know, people out on the farms were scared, and you know, it was quite a big thing.

32:35 Speaker 3: But then it went over. It was just a wave that lasted for a while.

32:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. They called it the Autumn of the Aliens, as I've seen it quoted, I mean we're talking, I mean doctor Scott, We're talking from Nashville to.

32:55 Speaker 1: Zanesville to Pasca Coula, all the way up to Hawaii, Ohio, over to California. I mean, something happened in that span the fall of nineteen seventy three, and I really really

33:19 Speaker 1: did like a lot of not just UFO sightings, but full on you know, contact or reductions or you know, it seemed that that was there was a huge bit that that that time period, and I wanted to dig far deeper into it, but you know, can you think of any significance of that.

33:43 Speaker 3: Time Well, it was kind of like today's. The government was in dis array, Watergate was going on. Nixon was the president, he was sort of out of it. Basically, they were they switched, they put in a new vice president. There was an oil crisis. Plus there was a possibility there was a Yung compare war in Israel. That was where the possibility in nuclear nuclear annihilation or whatever you want to call it, nuclear war was very possible. And they had Defcon three alert, which they've only had about two or three other times.

34:29 Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy three, a possible nuclear war and we're having somewhat the same thing. Now we've been having an oil crisis, we're having some presidential troubles such as impeachments, and that the other time was ampeachment of Nixon. Peachments again, and just the politics is somewhat similar. Plus also the possibility of nuclear war. So I think there's some relationship between them. And now it's fifty years later.

35:14 Speaker 2: Right, could it be?

35:18 Speaker 1: And I really really hate to think this, but do you think that they UFOs could possibly And I've proposed this before by that they're here to see something happen,

35:39 Speaker 1: that they know that something is about to occur, and the increase in sighting since forty seven, maybe time doesn't work exactly the same for them. So you know, they pop up throughout our modern history as we know it by only to see kind of the cliff notes to understand how it happened. And you know, I recently talked to Mark d' antonio about how UFOs may move, and they may move, you know, through dimensions, so you know, going through rather than you know, traverse is you know, the the universe, the cosmos.

36:24 Speaker 1: They are simply maneuvering through dimensions. And you know that I mean that's that's a discussion for another time. But could they be here to see the fall of society and maybe what you call the apocalypse?

36:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope what you mentioned before about they UFOs flying over military over missiles establishments and turning off the targeting, well, I've talked to people. To one of the people, that was true. All the missiles, he said that really happened.

37:08 Speaker 1: And that Roberts Alice, No, it wasn't it was.

37:14 Speaker 3: I forget his name. He was the other one. He wrote a book about it too. I can't remember his name right now. He was in charge of missiles too, and the same thing. And after the other one talked about it, so did he. But they don't understand why the government takes no inners whatsoever in that, which is ridiculous. But on the other hand, they may be saying to us that we had better ways of solving problems and creating missiles to blow ourselves up with, and one way might be to figure out ways to denature our weapons instead of making him worse.

37:54 Speaker 1: Right, I'm trying to find out who who it was that he spoke to.

38:06 Speaker 3: I can't find it right now. I can look on the other computer mode take a minute.

38:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, because now now Maelstrom, I know it was Maelstrom.

38:15 Speaker 3: And.

38:17 Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't. Larry Hankar was it.

38:20 Speaker 3: I remember his name. He wrote a book about it.

38:24 Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll figure that, I'll figure it out. But yeah, and then uh, you know.

38:32 Speaker 1: Us OS Richard Dolan is you know, currently under undertaking UH and writing a book about us OS.

38:40 Speaker 2: UH. And it seems that.

38:42 Speaker 1: You know, other people not just UFOs and nuclear facilities on the ground, but there's an UH program about fast movers and it's usually they're scene around the new nuclear powered submarines.

39:03 Speaker 2: And uh, there was just a movie.

39:06 Speaker 1: Made called uh god, I think it was called USOS Fast Movers or or or something like that, but it was made by Darcy Ware and Admiral Tim uh Golladet basically you know, goes on record saying that there is this program that these these vehicles you know, potentially at their bases in the water.

39:32 Speaker 2: And would you say it's a fair assumption.

39:37 Speaker 3: Well, in the past, goula thing, one part of it was the UFO and the abduction, but another part of the whole thing was u s OS and oh that's right, yeah, very close to where the abduction took place, there was a USO siting and it was by I think it was m sixteen people or so on. There's quite a few people involved. Only one of them was alive, and I interviewed him and he remembered it quite well. He and it made the news, made the national news along with the past school abduction and the underwater USO both made the national news and about the same time.

40:21 Speaker 3: And the man I talked to said that where they first saw the USO is real close to where the abduction had taken place, and they saw this thing and they didn't know what it was. It was underwater, and he his father saw it first. They were fishing with nets, right huh. His father hit it with a or real long ore and it sounded metallic. But then it would turn on and turn off and go away and appear someplace else, and they had no idea what it was. So they finally got went back and got the coast Guard, and the coast Guard officers came with a bigger ship and they couldn't figure it out either.

41:07 Speaker 3: And there were

41:12 Speaker 3: the coast Guard and the Navy took this very seriously and investigated wherever there is the passaical abduction. It was people made fun of them with the USO, which happened real close at the same time in the same place. They took it seriously, and the and the Coast Guard and everybody else very seriously investigated it. And then also there were ship building there were uh Pastagal. It was a big ship building facility and they were making nuclear submarines, but they didn't advertise that to the publish public.

41:48 Speaker 3: It was a government secret back then. Wait really, uh huh, that's what the BOS said.

41:57 Speaker 2: Interesting, So this was wow. So this could be something that is.

42:12 Speaker 1: The past Goual abduction I'm talking about, could be could could be a result of nuclear nuclear activity with the military that that could be why the UFOs were around there.

42:27 Speaker 3: I don't know, but that's there was USO activity. I think it was November the sixth and the abduction was October the eleventh, So it was very close in time and very close in place, because the man told me it was just not very far away from where the abduction took place, where they first saw the USO.

42:51 Speaker 1: And how how how documented is this by the Navy.

42:56 Speaker 3: I don't think it was. Several reporters found out that there were nuclear facilities there and they were building I think nuclear submarines, but it wasn't out in the public and so I don't know if it was in the government documents or not, but I think there was. And I looked later for or medio activities and I think there were. There was some remediation for radiation there, so I think they were making nuclear submarines.

43:28 Speaker 1: Did Calvin or Charles register for any radiation?

43:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think they detected any h but they were worried about it. That's one reason why Calvin afterwards, he was very worried that he might be contaminated or have radiation, and he went back home that night and poured I think it was clarox or something on him and really voiced and put always clothes even when he was very worried that there might be radiation. They took him them later to Kessler to see if they were contaminated in any way. Space.

44:11 Speaker 2: Oh, that that's right, that is in the right. I do remember that aspect of it now.

44:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, that and we see similar things like you're familiar with the Travis Walton case mm hmm, where he reflecting I think back on it now he's more of the volition that.

44:34 Speaker 2: He got too close to.

44:38 Speaker 1: Whatever this force was around the ship that was going to allow it to travel and got radiation poisoning sickness. And they didn't abduct him per se, but they took him on board to reverse the damage and then return him, uh safely, unharmed.

45:04 Speaker 2: Uh.

45:05 Speaker 1: But to do that, you know, uh they they You know again, there's and and there's this other aspect of it where time may work differently. Right for Calvin, you know, it wasn't exactly five it wasn't necessarily five days, but for the world, it was five days he was missing.

45:29 Speaker 1: So you know, with abductees, uh, missing time is is something that we often find as another correlation with their experiences Betty and Barney Hill, you know, so all all of them or a lot of them report some sort of missing time. And what you know, what do you think that what do you think that that that is? I mean, do you think these alien these beings are from a different planet or do you think that they may be future?

46:09 Speaker 2: What turns what we turn into?

46:13 Speaker 3: I don't think we know. And I think that's another problem with our alpha male type of thing, is is that our males think, well, they're the top life in the universe, and like Europe was the center of the universe, and they burn people on stakes if they didn't agree. Well, now we have the alpha male. They are the top dogs in the universe. So they're not really looking at UFOs as existing and we need to examine the phenomena. We need to find out about it. We don't know if it's friend or foe, or what it is, or whether it's from other planets, or whether it's just something visible it becomes visible once in a while, or what it is.

46:53 Speaker 3: And they're throwing away good observations by saying, well, there's nothing to it. They ought to be collecting the information.

47:02 Speaker 1: Right, So I mean, well you're I mean, what is your take on, say, you know, the David Grush stuff and the potential that we are taking it seriously. But it is so far down in these special access programs and on like unacknowledged programs that that it's happening. I mean, we look at science journals up until you know, the early nineteen hundreds that or even later that that basically said that you know, they were on track.

47:48 Speaker 2: I might be getting the days wrong.

47:49 Speaker 1: By the way, that they were on track to break gravity back then, and then it just disappeared. And you know what the US government sees is thousands and thousands of patents every year that I have to do with alternative energy.

48:11 Speaker 2: So what what?

48:12 Speaker 3: What?

48:13 Speaker 2: What? What is? Why? You know, what is the reason for all this?

48:17 Speaker 1: Because it's it seems that there's a you know, and you worked with the d i A, but a faction of the government that that might think we're dealing with angels and demons and that's not scientific. We cannot bring religion into this.

48:36 Speaker 3: Yeah, That's what I don't know is when I work for the d i A, I had had ul experiences myself which I didn't talk about, of course, and I even had a very close encounter with somebody else with within THEA who I was working in the d i A and while I was working with aircraft identification actually, but I didn't talk about Can you.

48:59 Speaker 1: Tell me, huh, can you tell me about it?

49:03 Speaker 3: Well? I had in my book my sister and I had a real close encounter. I was working for the DA and she was working she was at Drew University right then, taking postgraduate work. I was in Washington and she was in New York and we took a trip up to New England station just a vacation. We were both on that end of the country and decided to see the country. And when we were we were in Boston, we were playing to stay and look around as yeah.

49:41 Speaker 2: That's where I'm from.

49:43 Speaker 3: Oh, well, you can help me do some research. Then we were in Boston and we were playing to stay all night and travel up and down the coast and see what's going on. So we were leaving Boston. We hadn't been able to find a place to stay, and we were leaving Boston. I think we were on Route nine. We're going called the what was in the Outer Belt I think was one twenty eight then, and we looked to the south and we could see an airport well, we could see airplanes coming in. I think it was Norwood Memorial Airport.

50:23 Speaker 3: And we could see airplanes coming in turning their landing lates on with their green and red wing lights and everything. We were watching them, and there was another thing below it that was just a white light that was blinking, and we kept watching it, and my sister kept saying, that's really weird. And I wasn't watching it too hard. But she said maybe it's a UFO and I laughed at her and said, oh no, it's a helicopter. And we kept driving, and then we went down ninety five. Well, we were going past the woods near and there was this round thing on the ground or close to the ground.

51:06 Speaker 3: It was just a sphere and it was changing colors and it was like it had a It was like it was shades of blue and shades of red and the purple and kept changing colors, and I wondered what on earth that was. And then the inside of our car turned green and it stayed green for a while. And I mean, we had both seen UFOs before, but we didn't know anything about him, and I hadn't done a research, and so we kept on going. The green went away, and then we My sister started screaming at me that this thing was gonna come over the road, and I kept saying, it's a helicopter, and finally, so finally I pulled over because she was yelling at me, and then I saw it and it was this big, close thing with seven square windows and a little tiny red light on one end and a little tiny green light on the other that didn't blink, and it came slowly over the road, and I had I had never I had a Polaroid that had high speed film, but I didn't have a film in the camera because I didn't think I was seeing anything.

52:22 Speaker 3: So I had to get out and grab the find the film in the camera and get it loaded and everything. And then a truck driver came over and parked right in front of us and came back and said, what are you looking at? And you know, I didn't want to say UFO in front of a strange truck driver or anything, and so I pointed he looked in the opposite direction and just rotated around and looked the opposite direction. Said I don't see anything. Then he rotated back, looked at me and said, what are you doing or something.

52:55 Speaker 3: I did the same thing. He did the same thing, and then he gave me emotion like I waszy and went back to his truck. Well, then this this thing, it was pretty big when we were talking to him and close, and I couldn't figure out why you couldn't see it, but he kept looking in the opposite direction. So then it started circling the airport and we could see the airplanes up above, which weren't landing at the time, and it had a particular little design it was traveling in where it would travel so fast you couldn't see it, and then it'd take a half circle and blink twice and anyway.

53:40 Speaker 3: So I decided to get in the car and drive sat and then turn around the next intersection come back because I thought it was going to go north that had been going south. So we did. The truck driver do right in behind us. He started chasing us. If I slowed down, he slowed down. If I sped up, he sped up, and I couldn't get rid of him. And he was right on my bump where he was shining his bright lights in my mirror.

54:08 Speaker 2: Could you pause for one moment?

54:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry that the dogs just started freaking out.

55:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so.

55:43 Speaker 1: The craft starts. So wait, I'm sorry the truck driver. You can't shake him, No, he was.

55:53 Speaker 3: He was chasing us, and I couldn't get rid of him, and I thought, oh, is that your dog again? And I thought you were going to die. And I found it a real dangerous maneuver and got rid of him, and then we went back, but we couldn't see the UFO close again, and we wound up chasing it down this real bad country road, gravel and bumps and everything, and finally we had to turn around and leave. But I did to get pictures of it, which weren't good, but I published them in a scientific journal.

56:28 Speaker 2: So I could get those pictures.

56:31 Speaker 3: It wasn't a good picture, but it doesn't matter. I was using a polaroid and I could take a time exposure, and I was able to take a time exposure, and at the time I just saw one light. It was a distance away, and so I could see it was just this one blinking light. But the time exposure showed two lights, and so I thought there was a light that was not in the visible range on the object. And that's what I wrote about in the Center Journal. They didn't have lasers back then.

57:05 Speaker 2: Right, So do you think that.

57:09 Speaker 1: The truck driver was in able unable to see it, or do you think that there was something more sinister about it?

57:21 Speaker 3: Well? I wondered for many, many years, and he repeated the thing. I mean, he never looked in that direction. He asked me twice, what's going on? Then he looked in the opposite direction, said I don't see anything. Which made me think something's wrong here. I mean I thought that first on the first time, but then just recently my sister found we found several letters that we'd written in the family about it. But this was back in nineteen sixty eight, before there were you know, Internet or anything like that.

57:55 Speaker 3: Film letters like I found one my mother had written to an relative. But then we just recently found when my sister had written to my mother that very day the next day and described it and finally ask her did you see that man? And she didn't know he was there, So, I mean, she knew when he chased us that he was there, but she didn't know that I was talking to him, and so it made me definitely think that he was something that had to do with the UFO and not just some accidental truck driver.

58:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so when you say truck driver, what are we talking about?

58:46 Speaker 2: What kind of truck?

58:47 Speaker 3: It was like a big U hole. I mean, I when it happened, I didn't notice to pay attention to the truck because I didn't know he was going to chase us.

58:55 Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying, is it your sister didn't know that this big truck had pulled.

59:01 Speaker 3: Over No, she knew pulled over and she did not see.

59:05 Speaker 2: You talking with the man. Huh. That is interesting.

59:12 Speaker 3: Well, it's something I out recently. I thought she was talking to him too, and that she knew it, and I just found out recently she didn't know it.

59:20 Speaker 2: So there's almost that's a.

59:25 Speaker 1: That's a data point that just it's hard to wrap your head around.

59:31 Speaker 3: Sure is that really?

59:36 Speaker 2: Really is fretty weird? And so you said that where was this happening.

59:43 Speaker 3: It was happening to the east of the Norwood Memorial Airport in Aroute ninety five.

59:51 Speaker 2: Right, Well, I am in okay, so.

59:56 Speaker 1: Nor Would Memorial. Okay, So this is a very small, small airport. Yeah, all right, that makes sense because I grew up next to Hanskom Air Force Base and that is uh it's south southwest of of of where you're not now northeast of northwest of where you're talking about.

1:00:36 Speaker 2: I might have might have backwards.

1:00:40 Speaker 1: But that that is very interesting because there were there there's been similar I'm making a movie right now, and there was a woman who was abducted in that same area of nor Wood and the what you just described is is is very similar to the craft that she described.

1:01:12 Speaker 2: Specifically what turned out.

1:01:14 Speaker 3: After I, after this came out, did research. There were several things that were like that to my surprise, so like what well, for one thing, I didn't know what the round thing was, and I looked up and there was a book called the bluff Ledge Abductions, which was encounter in bluff I guess, yes, was far from where this was pretty close at the same time, and it involved a UFO plus these round things that were flying around just like it just exactly what I saw, and I had no idea what it was. But then there was a sharing encounter also where there were these roundings like I saw and I didn't know.

1:02:10 Speaker 3: I didn't have any idea what it was, but it sounded like other people would reported something like that. But then with a big thing, it was just like it was levitating right, no sound, no wings, no anything else.

1:02:28 Speaker 1: Would sort you know, not to not to try to put meaning onto it, but the the phenomenon that happened to you while driving when the car like lit up green and you saw the thing. I'm wondering if that, you know, like almost like shape shifted into what would later be the truck.

1:02:52 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know because it could be. You know, I'm wondering more about it now than I did before.

1:03:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be interested to look more, help you look more further into that, because I mean that that that hits that hits home and literally it's home.

1:03:12 Speaker 2: So uh.

1:03:13 Speaker 1: The other UFO encounters that you've had were those back in Ohio.

1:03:23 Speaker 3: Most of them were My sister and I had one long before we heard UFOs when we were just tiny children of having something flying around their bedroom, and we both remember it still very well.

1:03:39 Speaker 1: Do you it seems that there's a commonality here that you and your sister, your sister and yourself when that that when you're together you you experienced this phenomenon or or or I mean you were with her both turns that that seems Does that strike you as odd?

1:04:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, because they say that another book that didn't. We never heard of UFOs or anything back then, so we talked about it because you know, now you don't talk about UFOs, but back then we don't know. With the UFO, we talked about and we told our relatives and everything else, and everybody remembered because we were terrified. But it just we just had two together and every time we see each other which is all the time. We don't. We both moved back to our old farm, but we've never seen any more together besides just twice.

1:04:42 Speaker 3: But they say that people that have repeated experiences often start with children having experiences in their bedroom, and usually this is by themselves, and then their parents say, well, you're lying, you had a dream. Well, in our case, we weren't talking to each other. This thing was in there and we both became terrified and ran out of the room. And it wasn't like one of us dreaming. We both saw the same.

1:05:12 Speaker 1: Thing, right, And when two people see the same thing,

1:05:20 Speaker 1: it is you. There's no such thing as shared hallucination. No, there's no such thing.

1:05:30 Speaker 3: We were even talking about it. I didn't know she saw it, and she didn't know I saw it.

1:05:34 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I hate when people bring up to try to say that that is a causality as a shared hallucination, because it does not happen. It just simply doesn't happen unless I mean, no, there is no one less, it's just there's it's just not a possibility. Whatever you were seeing was really there, and you said it was moving around your bedroom. Do you think this could be a screen? Memory of sort, and.

1:06:09 Speaker 2: That it wasn't actually just a light, that it was an actual entity.

1:06:16 Speaker 3: Well, we lived out the way out in the country at the time. We had gravel road and horses and things like that, so it wasn't, you know, from traffic or anything like that on the road, because there wasn't any and the traffic wouldn't show into our bedroom anyway. It was there was no storm going on, And I have reasons to know that. We were just tiny kids. And I just woke up and the thing was flying around the room, and I wondered what it was, and I just had an innerst in it. And after a while it flew around the room and got close to both of us, and I noticed that it seemed to be able to see the room was dark, that it would avoid the furniture and go toward a wall and then a turn and avoid furniture and things, and you know, I'm just curious, what on earth is.

1:07:10 Speaker 3: It flowed to the ceiling. It flew across the ceiling and then there was a light a chandelier there, and it was an attic with the walls slanting up in a space between the two walls and the chandelier. Was down and there the chandelier was turned off, but it knew where the chandelier was, and it starts circling the chandelier and it didn't bump in the walls or anything. It knew where it was. And then it just came down a spiral. And then at that time I became absolutely terrified, and so did my sister, and we both start screaming and ran out of the room and it was upstairs, and we were so terrified we it fell down the stairs and then we got the managed to get the door open and ran to our parents screaming, and they didn't believe us, even though there were two of us.

1:08:03 Speaker 3: So right, it's.

1:08:06 Speaker 1: They're right, right, it's that mindset that their parents have, like, oh, you know, you're just skidded. Yeah, I did scary dream and you know, uh, it's the rationalization that the right brain right, trying to trying to categorize things.

1:08:24 Speaker 3: But we both saw them, and yeah, that becaied at the same time, So I thought there was some kind of mind control. Neither of us knew how it got in the room. The door was was closed in, the window had a screen, and I just woke up and it was there and so did she, So we didn't know what happened before anything, but we both it was like we both started watching it about the same time. She thought she started watching first, and then suddenly we both became absolutely terrified, and it was like there was mind control or something.

1:08:58 Speaker 2: Right right now. Were you sleeping and then awoken or were you you know, just going to bed?

1:09:08 Speaker 3: No, I was sleeping and woke up saw it.

1:09:12 Speaker 2: Wow, it was dark, so it woke you up because of the light.

1:09:19 Speaker 3: No idea, both of us woke up. That was another thing that was strange, is we both woke up. It was in the room.

1:09:27 Speaker 2: What was telling you to wake up? Mhm, what was telling you to wake up?

1:09:33 Speaker 3: No idea at that that you know?

1:09:37 Speaker 2: And h at About what time did this occur?

1:09:41 Speaker 1: Uh?

1:09:42 Speaker 2: She thought she was if you can recall.

1:09:44 Speaker 3: You young to be in school, and I thought I was maybe in school, but I didn't remember.

1:09:49 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm sorry. In summertime time frame, like like like uh on o'clock.

1:09:57 Speaker 3: Uh, I'd say maybe it was completely dark and it was in the summertime, so I'd say maybe around eleven or something. I'm not sure, ten or eleven when.

1:10:08 Speaker 2: So ten or eleven in the summertime in Ohio. Mm hm, very interesting, very like I said, I.

1:10:19 Speaker 3: Mean it's next door to where I live now. Actually it was my parents' farm. Is that is next door to where it happened now?

1:10:34 Speaker 2: Right? Is that where you?

1:10:36 Speaker 1: Is that the what set you off on this? Because it's pretty it's safe to say you've had a very very very elusive and successful career outside of this. You know, for someone like you two two uh out on the surface, be open about talking about this. You know, it's it doesn't it doesn't you know, add to your credibility, at least in past years, right, you know, it's it's not like you had a financial gain by doing by coming out and and and talking about this and discussing this. So, you know, a person of your caliber, why why.

1:11:35 Speaker 2: Why did you? Why did you come and and get into this community?

1:11:41 Speaker 3: Well? I did. I went into science. I was in science for my career for my whole life. Then I came close to retirement, and you know, I mean didn't want to look you know, insane. Especially I was used. I was in a lot of jobs where I was the only female, and I didn't want to say I see UFOs too. But as I got closer and closer to retirement, I came out a little bit of the closet. And then when I retired, I came further out of the closet. And now you can kind of talk about it with everybody saying you're crazy.

1:12:16 Speaker 1: Yes, and that that's the key thing is and and and and I really really respect that, you know, being a woman. You know, in the the eighties and nineties and even the early two thousands, you know, it was hard enough in the professional world, especially in in you know, mainstream science, you know big science, uh, mainstream science, so too.

1:12:46 Speaker 2: To to get a role, to get that, you know, to be in that degree.

1:12:51 Speaker 1: And then you know, sabotage it by saying, you know, I see UFOs when at a time when you know, the government was still saying that. You know that that's all you know, conspiracy theory, you know Country Bumpkin, you know, poke fun at Whitley Strieber kind of thing.

1:13:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I didn't talk about it until I was safely close to retirement.

1:13:20 Speaker 1: Did you monitor it, like, you know, were you aware of what was happening? Did you keep up on cases?

1:13:30 Speaker 2: Did you know?

1:13:31 Speaker 3: No, you just just I kind of paid attention to it when I was working, but I didn't pay too much attention because I had, you know, my career, to worry about my family, to worry about everything else, and so I didn't. It wasn't uppermost in my mind, except for I had a sighting and that made me pay more attention to it later.

1:13:55 Speaker 2: So you've been to Ripe out right? What did you what did you see there?

1:14:07 Speaker 3: Where? Did I see?

1:14:09 Speaker 1: What? What?

1:14:09 Speaker 2: What? What was it like to be on a base like that?

1:14:12 Speaker 1: Where so much of the the lore if you want to say, you know, the wreckage from Area fifty one supposedly end up there, I mean the wreckage from Roswell not here if if you want, but uh, you know, as well as any craft that was retrieved by other nations. I mean I retrieved that was uh you know, owned by other nations for us to you know that that was the home of Project Blue Book.

1:14:42 Speaker 2: You know what was that base like? And did you see anything out of the ordinary?

1:14:49 Speaker 3: Well? Actually I was actually in what they considered the Blue Room. I didn't know at the time, but I had been acquainted with the the Wright Patterson archives, and he showed us around and showed us including having inviting us to go to a meeting about UFOs and the Blue Room, which another person I wrote up in a magazine we were doing at that time. I didn't know it was a blue room. It was just published later that this building was considered the Blue Room. But I think that's where the where the project Bluebook and everything took place.

1:15:38 Speaker 2: Wow, So you s so that's that's I mean, that's got to be interesting.

1:15:45 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was very escorted though, so.

1:15:52 Speaker 2: In any place, not too not too many chances to carouse around.

1:15:57 Speaker 3: But there were a lot of monitors and out side there were monitors all over there, monitors on the roof, and monitors in the parking lot and everything else. Which this is this building I had been on at Right Patterson before because it's part of just my work. They sent me the right Patterson the meetings sometimes, and I'd noticed that building before, but this was in the secured area, and in the secured area, this building was really monitored, so I'd noticed that way before that they didn't room around.

1:16:32 Speaker 3: I did see things like that would suggest they were underground facilities, which I'm sure there were, because they would have. You know, it's a highly secured base and they have, they'd have to take things underground if there was an earthquaker they bombed or anything else. So I'm sure there are lots of underground facilities, but I heard all kinds of things, but I didn't get to see any of them.

1:16:56 Speaker 2: Right, But they're safe to say that that that this this base is is heavily monitored.

1:17:05 Speaker 3: Now where I was, it's very secure. You can't get in there now, but you could back then, right.

1:17:10 Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, So there's a current push in the government for more transparency and yeah, you know, things like the U a p. Caucus have been created h by a friend of the show, Tim Burchett, you know, Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio. Now, I'm not, I'm not. I want to make this abundantly clear, and it's sad to that I have to do this. But there is a very very

1:17:54 Speaker 1: high probability that Marco Rubio, who has also been very outspoken and at least engaging in this topic, that he could end up as Trump's running mate. If Trump were to win and Marco Rubio were to be the vice president, as his outspoken nature has been so far, do you expect that it would just be another case of you know, Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton all who promised to dig into the files and then just basically shut up about it. Or do you think that this could actually be a chess move that the UAP Caucus and those in the government that are seeking transparency.

1:18:50 Speaker 1: Do you think that this could be a move made?

1:18:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're getting a little bit closer than they ever were. They seem to be retracting too, and so I don't know. I know lots of people have gone through UFOs and died and the government had always opposed them and told them they were crazy. Now it's a little bit different, But I hope it things change because it's something that people should know about, because something that happens to people, and why should you throw away all that information? You need to know what's going on.

1:19:31 Speaker 2: And it's important that something like this. Who gave.

1:19:41 Speaker 1: The right to any government of any world, to ever, any authoritative figure, whether it's the church, whether it's this or that, no one should have the rights to life altering information like this are like, I mean, there's three questions right that every human's ever had and has a vested interest in all three rights.

1:20:21 Speaker 3: Are we alone?

1:20:23 Speaker 1: What happens after we die?

1:20:25 Speaker 2: And what the hell is consciousness?

1:20:27 Speaker 3: Right?

1:20:28 Speaker 1: And we have a vested interest in all three and it would change the world. And by answering one, we could essentially maybe answer the other two in a way. You know, by unlocking one door, we might get a little bit closer unlocking the other doors.

1:20:42 Speaker 2: So if the government is holding that withholding.

1:20:46 Speaker 1: That type of secret, either A it's for greed power and some sort of you know, advantage, or B the secrecy is needed because of some sort of existential threat to society. But my so in your experience, what would be the more likely?

1:21:09 Speaker 2: I mean, and.

1:21:13 Speaker 1: Again my point being there there there should never have been a cover up or or or anything to begin with.

1:21:22 Speaker 2: This is not something that that should be hidden from the citizen.

1:21:31 Speaker 3: Oh, I totally agree. I mean, if we don't know anything, we can't do anything about it. Maybe we can't anyway, but we should still know. But I think there's a third alternative there, and that is maybe the government is subject to thought control, or maybe somebody high in the government is afraid of something related to UFOs, and I think you should consider that too.

1:21:53 Speaker 1: Well, that's where I go back to this thing where I mean, even Tucker Carlson viewpoint now that it's angels and demons like and you know this very evangelical Christian belief, this core that's in them things that were dabbling with demons, and it's.

1:22:19 Speaker 2: It's honestly, we can't afford that kind of thinking.

1:22:26 Speaker 3: Well, they always thought that, I mean up until just in the recent century, they always thought disease had something to do with demons. I mean demons, you know, cause disease as ye, So if you can't explain something to say it's demons, but we should be exploring the wrath.

1:22:46 Speaker 1: Of God or right, And it's just it does make you wonder though where the cover up started. Was it governments or was it more likely the church? Because if you think about it, who was the original authority the church, right or before that the you know, not dictator but the but the king and you know, a religious order and you know this hierarchy, hierarchy, I can't say this, right, hierarchy, hierarchy structure.

1:23:26 Speaker 2: That always had a male on top.

1:23:30 Speaker 1: Right, So whenever it began, I think that you know, when when the truth does come to light, uh, you know, it's obviously it's gonna be a hard to pinpoint when this all, you know, began to be covered up. But do you think that people that are in the know should be held responsible for for for basically I would consider crimes against humanity. And we're using oil and people are freezing to death in the winter, and we find out that there's some sort of zero point energy that literally could have solved all the world's problems.

1:24:11 Speaker 3: Well, if we were doing things besides having wars, we could solve a lot of the world's problems. Now, I mean, we're spending all this time fighting wars and making weapons, and we should be doing something intalented or.

1:24:23 Speaker 2: Funding proxy wars in Israel.

1:24:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, basically funding both sides, right, Palestine and Israel, and signing another extension for the next ten years to fund Ukraine with weaponry. And now shouldn't we be paying to try to resolve the situation instead of fund fighting and keep the fight going. I could see what kind of lunacy are we? What type of luninancy is that?

1:24:59 Speaker 3: Well, that's what it about in my book that I don't think we began with men sharpening up rocks and you know, killing things. I think we began with women being able to figure out how to symbolize reality, and that's our strength. We can think in symbols, which makes language and everything else. And so I think we have a different start than is presented, but we're still solving our problems, this old way of making bigger weapons and killing people, right.

1:25:34 Speaker 2: Do you think that? Do you think that that's why historically that women tend to be.

1:25:43 Speaker 1: More in tune with maybe psychic phenomena and the paranormal.

1:25:53 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's more easier for women to talk about it because you don't have to worry about women aren't working, and so they don't have to face all the gears of somebody you know, working to say, oh, you're crazy and all that right, and they may be more truthful too.

1:26:12 Speaker 1: Well. I mean, I'm working on a movie about, you know, with you know, Salem, the witch Trials all albeit that you know, it was greed and corruption in Massysteria, that that that caused that. But the witches were practicing witchcraft. It just wasn't uh dark arts kind of which you know, satanic witchcraft.

1:26:37 Speaker 2: It was folk magic.

1:26:39 Speaker 1: And you know the same people that employed them to bless the ships for you know, plunder and good wins and you know, riches that same town turned against them, right and and it and I mean it just goes to show you. And you know, ironically, the Salem witch childs were stopped only once the mayor's wife was accused of witchcraft, ironically enough. And you know, at the same time you have King Philip's war, right, so another war you know, against the natives. And and this this, this this area of of New England, I think is home to some of the oldest paranormal curses known to modern humans.

1:27:41 Speaker 1: Uh there's something unique about this area. You've you experienced it, You've you know, you experienced something here.

1:27:52 Speaker 3: We just went through for a day and we had a big experience.

1:27:56 Speaker 2: And a lot of other people have as well. And you know that that's that's that's my that that you know, that's my bread and butter right there. And that's what I'm focusing on. So I find it. I find it very interesting. But uh so, how can people.

1:28:14 Speaker 1: Get your book? And why should they? Why should they read this?

1:28:19 Speaker 3: Well, they can get my book through Amazon Com. It's this.

1:28:27 Speaker 1: And I like that.

1:28:28 Speaker 3: I like that cover, thank you, yuh A good artist did it? And why they should read it? This because I give a different perspective on how we were created, that we may have been created through females developing the ability to symbolize and thinking symbols rather than males sharpening rocks and stabbing things.

1:28:58 Speaker 1: Right, So it's a it's a different perspective on our on our modern uh history that has to do with aliens and.

1:29:09 Speaker 2: The apocalypse.

1:29:12 Speaker 1: So as always, uh, doctor Scott, you're always really really amazing to have on and you're always welcome back to total disclosure. Other than the the book that you have out right now, I personally highly recommend your book about uh the Pasca Goula case and can you tell people about that what it's called? And uh you can get it on Amazon as well. But that is a really really I mean, beyond a reasonable doubt, is probably one of the best case studies, uh and in in in history in in that's my opinion.

1:30:01 Speaker 3: Well, it's about an abduction basically, but it's also about the UFO phenomena. It happened around fifty years ago. There was a huge, huge wave of UFOs that happened at the same time, and most close encounters are abductions. There's no evidence whatsoever. Somebody saying, well, this might have happened. With this, there was a lot of evidence. For example, the police person at that time that was taking calls said that on that night that it happened, that they were fifty calls from people reporting UFOs in that area, which is a whole lot of documentation.

1:30:45 Speaker 3: And we've interviewed a whole lot of people and to me, some of them sounded like close encounters, are possible abductions too, So there was a lot going on then that night. Even

1:31:02 Speaker 3: we call it beyond reasonable doubt because we had enough circumstantial evidence that might hold up in court.

1:31:08 Speaker 2: Even I was literally just gonna say that.

1:31:13 Speaker 1: And if fifty people called the police and said we just saw someone be murdered, someone get murdered, come on, come on.

1:31:26 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:31:28 Speaker 1: So the burden of proof is not on the believer or the the UFO, uh, whatever you want to call it, right, the burden of proof And you know, I'm obviously taking this from doctor Mitchekaku, but the burden of proof is clearly shifted from the believer to the non believer or skeptic or debunker.

1:31:57 Speaker 2: So with the pascor Ghoula case and the debunkers, I mean, what do you have to say to that.

1:32:05 Speaker 3: Well, I think we've got a lot of evidence. Unfortunately, the evidence, the direct written evidence of the reports was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. But we've gone back and interviewed lots of people who said, yeah, they saw it, and some of them told that other people reported and things like that, and we have some people that were involved in reporting it at that time. Right, So there was a lot of evidence that something was flying around that people didn't recognize.

1:32:44 Speaker 1: Right, this blue and that's that that's a commonality between the sightings, Right, is that blue luminescent light.

1:32:54 Speaker 3: A lot of during that time in nineteen seventy three, there were lots of reports of blue objects, not only there but in other places too, which is unusual, like because it's not an airplane light or blink light er meteor, so it was kind of unusual.

1:33:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's it's actually it's that that That is what I think stands out very much is that blue is not used in.

1:33:24 Speaker 2: Aviation. Uh, it is not used aside from with the police.

1:33:31 Speaker 3: Uh.

1:33:31 Speaker 1: And you know that law enforcement so and and and I mean, come on, the police aren't flying UFOs. Let's be real, right, Let's come on, go on UH so Beyond a Reasonable Doubt is almost the perfect title. The links to her description for I mean, the links to her books will be in the description below.

1:33:56 Speaker 2: Whether you're listening on UH podcast platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

1:34:03 Speaker 1: Or any other great platform UH be sure to check it out get your copy now, as well as reviewing the show and leave us leaving us star rating it's it's free. It helps us tremendously, and you can follow the show so that you don't miss any future uploads. This has been such a fun conversation. Thank you, miss doctor Scott. You are such a tremendous guest. And what what what what does the future hold for you?

1:34:33 Speaker 3: Well, I'm thinking about writing more books and hoping I can and hoping to be useful, probably useful, do a lot of charity work too.

1:34:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's absolutely amazing. Can't wait to see UH what what you come up with? What you come up with next. I would really really love to talk to you and Philip about doing some sort of documentary, but again I think we can talk about that off air, but just to the audience, it's fair to assume because I have already talked to Philip, so we're definitely going to be putting something in the works, and uh, doctor Scott, I would love for you to be a part of that great So yeah, that would be wonderful And any trip I can take to the country, sign me up, because now I get a quick question to ask you before we before we roll out.

1:35:34 Speaker 1: Are you in one of those areas where when you look up there's not light pollution and you can see the stars?

1:35:45 Speaker 3: Not very well? I'm I'm north of Columbus.

1:35:49 Speaker 2: Still some ambient light. Yeah, yeah, that's not.

1:35:53 Speaker 3: You'll see the stars, the main stars and everything.

1:35:56 Speaker 1: But right, yeah, I live living in the city sock because you really don't get to see the true I think, if any, if everybody, I think there should be one day a year where all lights are literally shut off for the night and you are forced to look up and see the beauty, because I think that a lot of people, the majority of folks, are missing out on seeing just how beautiful this planet is in relation to the universe. We've been handed of paradise, and far too many people are concerned with getting into heaven doing this, not going to hell, and they don't think about the paradise that they've already been handed and the mysteries that that we're potentially on the brink of solving like there.

1:36:58 Speaker 1: We have a lot of work to do down here, and I think we need to be reminded sometimes that we are but a microcosm in the the drop of a bucket that is ever expanding, and honestly, I think humanity has a lot of growing up to do. Fair to say, uh huh, all right, Scott, Doctor Scott, you're amazing. All your links will be in the description below. Like I said, we'll talk later, we'll talk off camera about that project, but I just keep doing what you're doing. You bring such credibility to the field in what you do and the lengths you're willing to go, the way you go about things.

1:37:46 Speaker 1: You know in the proper scientific as.

1:37:49 Speaker 2: Scientific as you can be when it comes to this topic.

1:37:53 Speaker 1: So you lend a tremendous amount of credibility to anything that you're attached to. And I just want to say, even if you know no one tells you as often as you should, I respect you and what you do for the community.

1:38:06 Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much. You do a great job of making people aware of a lot of things, and you're a deep thinker, and thank you very much.

1:38:16 Speaker 1: I try to be because if we're not right, if we're not if we're not, then then then we're wasting. You know, people get too caught up in the materialism and we need to start thinking on a on a different level. So it's been a truly pleasurable conversation and we shall talk soon.

1:38:38 Speaker 3: Great.

1:38:38 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, And everyone out there.

1:38:41 Speaker 1: On the stratosphere or the podcast fear, I should say, you know what it is. Make sure to like, share, subscribe, and we'll see you next time.