Dr. Lacatski's Bombshell About US Government Possesion of UFO- Clarity On AAWSAP vs AATIp, Lue ELizondo And More- SPECIAL PRESENTATION

0:01 Speaker 1: Like we have different species of humans on this planet. I'm quite certain there's different species of alien life forms, so we could run into metallevolence. In fact, President Reagan on several occasions alerted concern about the potential hostilities from outer space.

0:17 Speaker 2: We know for a fact that the US government has solid information about negative health effects from being in the proximity of uap UFOs and people.

0:27 Speaker 3: Congress individuals will be speaking with the Department of Defense Inspector General now when they have this. It only took a couple of years to get this meeting to go to place. But the idea is that the dodig they're going to work with Congress that kind of let them know about some of the stuff going.

0:46 Speaker 2: On, secrets, cover ups and strange phenomena.

0:52 Speaker 3: UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself, all these mysteries, all this time, we're ever going to get to the bottom of.

0:59 Speaker 2: The My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't.

1:05 Speaker 3: I'm Jeremy Corbel, and for some reason people tell me things they probably shouldn't and this is weapon weapons.

1:16 Speaker 4: Hey Jeremy, how you doing, good man?

1:19 Speaker 3: How you doing?

1:20 Speaker 4: Busy?

1:21 Speaker 2: Busy week in UFO world, Arrow came out with its long anticipated second report.

1:28 Speaker 4: Did you read it?

1:29 Speaker 5: Oh?

1:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, I read it.

1:30 Speaker 4: Man.

1:30 Speaker 3: You know it's the same thing. Oh my little puppies. My little boy's crying about the Arrow Report. Everybody's crying about it. Oh okay, so so yeah, man, it was. It was kind of towing the line like they use all these things, like during our investigation time frame, we didn't find any negative biological effects on people. It's like, it's really frustrating to people like you and me and people that know a broader scope of you history. You've got Sean Kirkpatrick, doctor Shan Kapatrick kind of like tallying up the recent you know, things that they've seen that the military has been able to film or document.

2:10 Speaker 3: But isn't the whole point of Arrow that there are these illegal programs that we have been reverse engineering, that we have these things within private defense contractors and they're just playing around with things they see in the sky. I mean, if we have these things on the ground and they've been notified of that, which we know they have, what game are they playing? I don't get it.

2:34 Speaker 2: Well, it's a game that we've seen many times before. I mean, we've seen this movie. We saw it with Project sign which you know, was the first really big Air Force study of UFOs. The staff members came up with what they thought was a compelling case that these were possibly extraterrestrial, but they knew that they weren't ours, and the guy who was the head of the Air Force at the time put the kibosh on it. He wouldn't allow that report to be made public. So then you have Projects Grudge and a blue Book that came out that basically did their best to explain away UFO cases, even when the explanations were more outrageous than the possibility that these are from somewhere else, some non human intelligence.

3:15 Speaker 2: You know, the Project blue Book was a public relations exercise. It's starting to feel like Arrow is the same thing. You know, they're ostensibly supposed to investigate these sightings, and it sounds like they are. I mean, in terms of the good news of what we heard this week, it's that Sean Kirkpatrick saying that they've received dozens of reports per month, so at least there is a flow of reports. Some of the stigma has decreased to a point where military pilots and military witnesses and some commercial pilots will go ahead and file reports.

3:46 Speaker 4: That's a good thing.

3:48 Speaker 2: It's good that they've got a total of eight hundred or so, which is up from six hundred and fifty the last time, you know, but you start to feel the creep of what we've seen before. Half of these are explained their balloons and drones. Only two to four percent are truly anomalist, I think, Kirkpatrick said, and require further investigation. Only a very small percentage display quote unusual characteristics. But it was interesting to me that Kirkpatrick gets out in front of this report, he goes on CNN to spin it before the report is actually released.

4:22 Speaker 2: Were you did that catch your attention?

4:25 Speaker 3: It sure did. I'm sorry, I just have to say, this is my little boy. He is really crying about the error form. Yeah, right, so there's nothing I can do. He's going to do a little crime. So yeah, that was something that really struck me was that we see immediately before this report comes out, doctor Kirkpatrick. You know, he straight up gives an interview to CNN to absolutely try to spin it, try to put it in his favor. And they were compliant. They were like, oh cool, great, So it was really bizarre.

4:55 Speaker 3: I just you know, here's the deal you you have always said did with Arrow? They have to earn our trust. They haven't done that. There have been lies for decades, and I was like fighting for them. I'm like, come on, man, this is really cool. It's gonna be okay. But I do see what you're saying now, which is that the way everything is worded, it is absolutely a whitewash. And that's not even what we know. They've been told and have not investigated or have covered up. So when it comes to just reports coming in from the military, they go above and beyond to try to dismiss and try to show us cases that are already resolved, as if we need a lesson on what that looks like when things are resolved, right.

5:38 Speaker 3: So yeah, man, it's really it's really annoying. At the same time, I think the real frustration I have is that we know for sure, David Grush says, we have the locations, I know the program names, I've got hostile and non hostile witnesses, but we know that ARROW is not pursuing that in a public way, and they're even throwing it back in the face of the people that we know, some of whom we've sent to testify to error. I'm never doing that again, by the way. So yeah, man, it's really frustrating if people go read the ERRA report, you know, it's like this little bait and switch thing.

6:18 Speaker 3: It makes you think that they're doing something legitimate, but then they're edging towards Oh, we can verify everything, this might be this might be adversarial tech. Did we have this adversarial tech before our military even existed?

6:32 Speaker 4: I mean, come on, Yeah.

6:34 Speaker 2: I thought Kirkpatrick's comments to CNN about Grush and other whistleblowers were pretty telling in that he said something like he dismissed the sensational claims, saying, quote, he has no evidence that suggests anything is extraterrestrial in nature, and I'm not sure that Dave Grush ever used the word extraterrestrial.

6:53 Speaker 4: It was non human intelligence.

6:55 Speaker 2: And then he said, if anybody thinks they know what these things are, they should be coming to talk to us. That's why we've set up this entire architecture for people to securely come in and talk with us. Well, you and I know people who have come in to talk to them and they don't seem to be taking their testimony very seriously. We know people who have provided information to other arms of the US government. Arrow has either hasn't paid attention to it, or hasn't gone after it, or hasn't read it.

7:22 Speaker 2: And then you know, lastly, I guess we know people who have been invited to speak with ARROW but are not going to get.

7:30 Speaker 4: Within ten feet of that office.

7:31 Speaker 2: They don't trust them, they don't believe that they're doing an honest investigation, and there's no way that they're going to come up and cough up what they know to Sean Kirkpatrick or his staff.

7:42 Speaker 3: I mean, I would actually argue that they've taken very seriously the testimony, but they've completely locked that in to not allow that to be part of public disclosure. When people go and talk with ARROW, there's this new thing. When they submit it becomes part of an investigation. We can no longer talk about it. So they become silenced just because they went to ERA. That's what I'm hearing from people that did actually go and testify. So it's kind of this catch twenty two where I think they are taking things very seriously.

8:12 Speaker 3: When people say I was in this program. This was the name, this is what we did. It was exploitation of nonterrestrial NHI non human intelligent craft and then they just lock it up. So I think it's more diabolical than they're just not taking it seriously. I think this is a position to organization like Blue Book, like Project Sign, Project Grudge, where they're trying to get as much information. Oh, come tell us the information, and then lock that shit down. That's the fear and the understanding of a lot of people that have come forward to them.

8:43 Speaker 3: I am hopeful though, because we do know that on the twenty sixth, so next week, we do know that Representative Birchant and people at Congress individuals will be speaking with the Department of Defense Inspector General. Now when they have this it only took a couple of years to get this meeting to go to place. But the idea is that the do O d IG they're going to work with Congress and kind of let them know about some of the stuff going on. Now. I don't know how that meeting's going to go, but I'm hopeful that that meeting is happening.

9:18 Speaker 3: Actually this week when people are listening to it, it'll be this week.

9:23 Speaker 2: A couple of other things that Kirkpatrick has said, or the report said, that jumped out at me, and this was the one that both you and I reacted to off camera offline, is that they have found no evidence of adverse health effects documented to date, which is maybe they haven't. Maybe the cases they're getting all come mostly come from pilots and they're not getting close up to these UFOs, whatever these objects are. But we know for a fact that the US government has solid information about negative health effects from being in the proximity of uap UFO.

10:00 Speaker 2: There's a Sean Kirkpatrick to walk across the street to DA and get the dird That was part of the ASAPP program. Sorry for all the acronyms, but there was a report compiled. The guy who was in charge of it is Kit Green, who worked for CIA for a number of years. He's a neuroscientists, a medical doctor, and he cataloged all these hundreds hundreds of cases where they've been deleterious health effects caused by being in the proximity to UFOs, burns and body marks and serious, really weird diseases that pop up when people get too close to these things.

10:38 Speaker 2: It's hundreds of cases. It's a dird that is now public information. We posted on a mystery wire a couple of years ago. You and I have talked about it before. So the fact that Sean Kirkpatrick seems blissfully unaware that this report exists is telling, I think, right.

10:54 Speaker 3: So, I think they hide behind language because when you read it, it's like within the reporting period, you know, how do you even have time to really look at the brain scans of individuals who had an experience within that reporting time, So they kind of hide behind language. He is very well aware that there are negative impacts to human biology, including the brain when it comes to close proximity to UAP. Now, I don't know if he's read the great work of AWSAP and these reports, the ones that you released to the public showing that human beings have these really devastating biological effects.

11:30 Speaker 3: But remember when you asked doctor Colin Kelleher to come on Weaponize a number of episodes ago, he really brought this up. He talked about this. Now, remember this is a for our audience. This is the government's acknowledged, biggest ever acknowledged UFO program running through the DA. But it was the one that was funded for twenty two million called AWSAP Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program and one of the DIRDS. The Defense Intelligence Reference documents that you released to the public shows a really intense knowledge, a very studied knowledge of what UAP or UFOs can do to the human body when people come into close proximity.

12:16 Speaker 3: Not that they're actively targeting human beings in general, but just that that close proximity to that power source. Although there are other cases like in Kolaris, which in this new episode we talked about. So yeah, man, it's super frustrating. An aspect of the UFO phenomenon is human health effects, and doctor Kirkpatrick damn well knows that, I think.

12:38 Speaker 4: Yeah.

12:39 Speaker 2: We had some great comments from Colin Kelleher, a biochemist who was directly involved with OSAPPY, was one of the program managers. He oversaw out of the research into the health effects. He was directly involved with it. He told us about that months ago. Somehow that information has never got to the aero folks. I'm not sure that I know that. Kirk Patrick said. They have almost forty people on staff for ARROWNOW, which is a great thing. They need to ramp it up and maybe they'll be adding more. I wonder how many of them are medical doctors or have some kind of medical experience where they could actually have the expertise to.

13:14 Speaker 4: Investigate the possible health effects.

13:16 Speaker 2: As we have said on this program before, they've been well documented for a long time. One of them, I mean, there's John Burrows, that guy who got too close to the Bentwaters UFO. His injuries were severe enough that Senator John McCain authorized got him authorized to have federal health benefits because his injuries were directly related to his service during the military.

13:40 Speaker 3: That's right. So I remember that because when I was with Reuben Langdon and he was putting on a citizen hearing on disclosure, which everybody should watch. It's forty witnesses and a week of testimony in front of five congress people and one senator. John Burrows was part of the Rendelsham Forrest's UFO encounters and he had a heart problem. They wouldn't admit that he was even there because it was a UFO incident. Was all classified. So when he testified at that panel that we all set up there, they couldn't believe it.

14:14 Speaker 3: They wouldn't give him health benefits because of an injury he received because of close proximity to UFOs. So you're right, John McCain jumped in. That was a letter that everybody signed that was there. We documented that signing and it worked. They gave him full medical benefits. He had a life saving surgery on his heart. Very weird thing happened though. When he was in surgery, the doctor got a call from a military individual telling them exactly what to do to repair this issue that was caused by UAP, and that showed knowledge of our military and exactly what UAP does to the heart in that situation.

14:53 Speaker 3: He then came forward and I have this also documented where he's thanking everybody for putting this pressure on during the citizen hearing because it did save his life. It gave him full benefits. It's a really neat piece of footage, but it's part of history. It's true. So look, yeah, the investigations into leaks is an essential part of the way intelligence agencies work. I get that. I take no offense on that. You and I as journalists, no one's coming at us. We're obtaining information, we're releasing it for public good.

15:21 Speaker 3: As long as we've vetted it, and we do our best. So I do understand why these investigations are going. And maybe you have a different opinion, but I understand it.

15:31 Speaker 2: No, yeah, no idea, Yeah, totally agree, sure, because I mean there might be foreign agents involved in this stuff. They're very interested in our UFO programs and what we know about this issue for sure.

15:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you and I have been notified by numerous agencies at different times when there's a new hack to signal or that kind of thing, so we can sure up our security when it because you know, agencies know that we have people leak into us all the time information and they're more concerned that foreign nation will get it then impeding upon the work of journalists. So I kind of admire that if it actually stays that way. But that's what you and I have experienced, So I don't know. Hopefully we find you and I find the time during this season, which I know we will have weaponized to put out information that we've vetted and we think is worthy of public discourse.

16:21 Speaker 4: Is that what you call it? Tease, Jeremy, I'm.

16:24 Speaker 3: Just saying, man, I'm just saying it's hard. You know, we got to make sure it's like worthy, Like what do they say, like the juice is worth the squeeze. That's what you and I have been kind of wrestling with for some of it.

16:34 Speaker 2: So Sean Kirkpatrick has now said they have around forty people working for Arrow. That's great. You know, we haven't known how many people they had working. They wouldn't even tell Congress what kind of budget they had or anything, or how many staff members.

16:48 Speaker 4: They had.

16:49 Speaker 2: Forty people working for Arrow, that's great. We'd like to hear from some of them.

16:52 Speaker 4: Maybe.

16:53 Speaker 2: I mean, I wonder how those folks go to work every day trying to figure out these UFO cases, UAP incidents, and then they have kirk Patrick saying, you know, we've explained pretty much all of them. I wonder if those folks go along with that, if they're frustrated. But whatever, we're not bashing their work. We're just saying asking questions about their boss and what he is sharing with the public.

17:14 Speaker 3: Right And I think you and I are asking that because we have a little bit of insight into the inner mechanics of how stuff is being portrayed publicly compared to you know, whatever information they may be getting. So look, bottom line, let's bottom line it, because we're about to talk about what happened last week, which is really interesting with doctor Lekatski and doctor Colin Kelleher. I think people need to hear how we took that interview that we did last week. But you know, before that, I think just looking at the idea that okay, great, you're looking at military cases, trying to discern what shape is this?

17:48 Speaker 3: Is this AUFO? What's going on here? Hold on, hold on. If we have craft and we are exploiting those craft and they are UFOs, this is a charade, an absolute total charade. Arrow is a charade. And if that's the case, it's really frustrating. And unfortunately I believe that to be the case. And there's a reason why. So last week you asked your pal, doctor James Lakatski, who is a career DIA intelligence in individual who ran the UFO program for the United States government with doctor Colin Kellerher, who is the project manager when they got the contract for this DIA program, and we had him on.

18:34 Speaker 3: Only you could get guys like this on. Doctor Lakaski doesn't do a bunch of interviews. He's a buy the book kind of guy. So there he is, and we're reading through his book and you show me a certain paragraph and in there he straight admits it. He admits that our government has a UFO in their possession. He admits that they're trying to open it up, that they have an exploitation program with the idea for verse engineering, and then he admits they were able to breach the hull. And it's you just fly by it in the book, but it's so frustrating.

19:09 Speaker 3: I wanted to really look. They're friends of ours in a way, like we're not against them. We understand they have to hold secrecy. That's why they have these positions of power within the DIA, because they're trustworthy. But they'd done did set it, they wrote it in the book. So you and I pushed. We pushed really damn hard, and it was frustrating for us, and sure enough we get him to say, yes, those events happened. What I said is true, and that's as far as they can go.

19:36 Speaker 2: I understand why many of our listeners express frustration with the interview, because there's only so far that doctor Lakatski and Colin Kelleher were willing to go, and beyond that, they're just not going to talk about it. That approach has served doctor Lakatski well. I mean, he was a career intelligence analyst. He worked for DIA for a couple of decades in the Defense Warning Office. He's he's walked the walk and talked the tall and he does not really support full disclosure of everything right away.

20:06 Speaker 2: He's done it a bit at a time what he can get away with. So, you know, we had skinwalkers at the Pentagon where we revealed a lot about os APP.

20:15 Speaker 4: If not for doctor.

20:16 Speaker 2: Lakatski coming forward to me and Harry Reid in twenty eighteen, we wouldn't know anything about it.

20:21 Speaker 4: We would have still had.

20:22 Speaker 2: The New York Times story about a tip as been the only record about that period of history of UFO history. But we met with him in Washington on Saint Patrick's Day in twenty eighteen, and he laid it out about the ASAPP program that had received twenty two million dollars, what they did with the money. Shown showed me a variety of documentation that backed up what he had to say. And if he had not come forward at that point and in subsequent releases and interviews, we wouldn't know anything about this stuff.

20:55 Speaker 2: So I understand people's frustrations. But we've already learned a heck of a lot from doctor Lakatski about what the government knew, and he has done it incrementally as he could get away with it with with permission from the Dopster process for the books, the two books. The Dopster approved this this new book back in April, and it approved basically the manuscript back in April.

21:17 Speaker 4: We've tinkered with it and I'm a co author. We tickerd with some of the content since then. But Laktski wanted to include the fact that, yeah, it's true, we do have a craft. This is I think.

21:28 Speaker 2: Before Grussia's big revelations before Congress, and you know, he was he was acknowledging that we've got one that we gained access to the middle. He could not say where it is, he could not say who has it, He couldn't say who exactly got into the into the craft itself, but he shared with us what he could. That's that's what he could do without going to prison.

21:50 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, so look, it's like stepping back a second. Doctor Lukatski admittedly, so that the negative that I've heard about him, is that like he's glib and he like like holding these secrets that I don't see it that way at all. You know, he's a patriot, he's worked in the DIA. You know, he ran this UFO program. That's heroic of him to get that through the dopts or process where they look at what can you say publicly and print it in a book? You know, he's just a buy the book kind of guy, which you've said is the kind of guy you want in our intelligence agencies.

22:22 Speaker 3: But it sounds like you've had a lot of interaction. I know you've been a fly in a wall in a lot of places. You have a little extra information that I think is public, so you can kind of push a little bit, and I can push a little bit to try to get more out. But I think don't let that be lost on you. So if you watch that whole last episode of Weaponized again, it's not that you see somebody trying to hide anything. The guy is on our podcast, for God's sake. I mean, he's coming out trying to tell you something, but he just has confines of which he can do that One news station did pick it up, you know, News Nation is really like on this UFO thing now, and they really picked it up when they saw that episode.

23:03 Speaker 3: They're like, wait a second, Wait a second, you're saying the head of the DAUFO program straight up admitted, did we have a UFO? The government does. We've been exploiting it and we got inside the hall. I'm like, yep, They're like, come on the news. So I did that yesterday. It was also to promote. By the way, I just want to say, there's a two parts special on George Now. They released part one last week and by the time you hear this, part two will have been released. And look it up. It's so cool, George.

23:31 Speaker 3: I just got to take a second. It shows your reporting from the mob to politics to UFOs. It shows how you got on this weird and wild path into UFO investigating with the Bob Blazar interview as kind of like the thing that happened right after you interviewed John Lear and he laid out this hypothesis of what's going on with the government covering up UFOs. It was just such a cool thing. I know you hate that kind of stuff, but as a as a fan of this topic, to see how we got to where we are. You were saying things thirty seven years ago that, like now we know are true, and I know you didn't believe it back then you were investigating it.

24:11 Speaker 3: But man, that's got to be kind of weird, George, to see your whole life out on display when it comes to your investigations on another news network.

24:20 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's weird. It's odd. And I have not seen that part one yet.

24:24 Speaker 2: I just saw the first ten minutes of it because Sunday night I have a radio show, so I'm prepping for that. I've got it recorded and I'll probably watch it later today or something, but I have not seen part two. But yeah, it is weird to see all that unfold. And thank god they haven't got my whole life the show on television. There's chunks of it that would not be pretty. But yeah, it's interesting that the ideas and concepts that we pursued thirty six thirty seven years ago, and that people had a hard time swallowing back then, are now almost mainstream.

24:58 Speaker 2: I mean, we've come a long way, but it's the same stuff the Lazaarre and others said back then is coming is coming to Fruition now and hopefully he keeps marching forward.

25:10 Speaker 3: Yeah, that news the guy Brian who did the news report that I was on yesterday, he was like, look, for most people, this is kind of new information. I was like frustrated. I was like, this is like the movie don't look up. It's been so obvious. This has been said, you know, for so long. And he's like, but for most people who were not as educated on this, And I was kind of set back. I'm like, Okay, no, I get it. You're right, You're right. Let's start, you know, at a level one here.

25:38 Speaker 4: Yeah.

25:38 Speaker 6: I think it's a lot to process, though, Jeremy. I mean, you interview people every day. This is sort of your specialty. For guys like me mostly on the outside. You know, it's a lot to take in. But what's interesting since I've been interviewing and studying George Knapp, your sort of partner in crime who's been doing this for almost forty years, you know, a lot of the stuff that you're breaking now and the things that people are saying now he was reporting you know, decades ago, like like with Bob Lazar, another person who worked out an area fifty one saw things and then first spoke with uh spoke with George decades ago.

26:12 Speaker 6: I want to play you a clip from the special on Sunday with Bob Lazar.

26:17 Speaker 5: What's going on up there could be the most important event in history. You're talking about contact, physical, physical contact and proof from another system, another planet, another intelligence. That's got to be the biggest event in history period. And it's real and it's real and it's there.

26:37 Speaker 3: But I want to bring us into so this idea that doctor Lekatski came on our show and he verbally and on camera made this admission. It was a huge deal. Is you're officially allowed to tell us that the United States government has in its possession of craft of unknown origin and you were able to access the inside. Is that correct? The wording that you're you read is correct. Ah, you're going beyond the wording. No, I'm not, I'm not. I'm asking you did that mind happen? And is that true? And it's true?

27:13 Speaker 3: You're you're telling us you told us because you were allowed to tell us that our government has a UF and it's possession and has been able to access the inside of it. Right. Yes. It made me kind of go back and look at the archives and one of the things that I found was this guy, this researcher, this you have a researcher named Bob Exler, and he had this kind of famously in my mind, he had this interview with Admiral Bobby ray Inman, and Admiral Inman was I mean, this guy was was. His career was incredible.

27:51 Speaker 3: So so to let me break this down real quick, I want to play some clips and get your thoughts, George. So, Bob Exler was a National Mission special so a serious guy. From what I understand from looking through his history, he interviewed Admiral Inman and that was once Inman was out of the military, but Admiral Inman just checked this out, this guy in military and intelligence. He was the director of the DNI, the Naval Intelligence until nineteen seventy six, which is the role the same role that Scott Bray now holds.

28:24 Speaker 3: From what I understand, so Scott Bray was one of the guys that was kind of like, nothing to see here, move along in that first UFO hearing. So that's Inman held that role back in nineteen seventy six. Then he was the vice director of the DA until nineteen seventy seven. Then he was the director of the NSSAY until nineteen eighty one, then the deputy director of the CIA until nineteen eighty two, So nineteen eighty one and eighty two he was both the director of the NSA and the CIA simultaneously, which is crazy because he'd write one thing that he wanted authorized and he did himself from what I hear, so it was a lot of power this guy had.

29:03 Speaker 3: So this is a guy in position to know with that said he oh, by the way, and then private industry, so like after his military career he became he went on the board of SAIC Science Applications International Corporation. What is SAICE, George.

29:21 Speaker 2: Well, that's one of those big Pentagon contractors. Those two of us who believe there is UFO information and craft and materials stashed suspect that SAIC would be one of the likely candidates to get that stuff. It's right in the heart of the larger conspiracy. Lowre. You can't prove it for sure, but you know there are a lot of arrows pointing towards SAIC as being directly involved with this.

29:46 Speaker 4: So when he.

29:47 Speaker 2: Leaves all those multi letter agencies and then goes to SAIC, another acronym. You know, a lot of eyebrows were raised and suspicions. And Bob Exler, as you mentioned, he was a U. He got into the UFO field in the late eighties, right around the time that I joined that the cause the investigation, and stayed into it.

30:08 Speaker 4: In the mid nineties.

30:09 Speaker 2: He played a role in the Bob Lazart investigation that we can talk about later. But he knew the enough of the lingo to talk his way into a phone call with Bobby ray Enman, and Wow, the stuff that came out and what Inman thought was an off the record conversation is pretty amazing.

30:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we'll talk about an admission from a DIA official when it comes to doctor Lakatski, but he was authorized to admit, you know, the three things he did that our government has at least one UFO, that we've been exploiting it, trying to get inside of it, and that we did that we got inside the hall. So that's one thing that we learned. But going back to this excellent interview that I found, I want to see what you think about it. So the first clip is just him kind of giving us a basic understanding of where he's coming from you.

30:55 Speaker 3: He talks about the paper trail, and I think that is how you got involved with this too, is that our government is hiding something from us, and that pissed you off. So let me play this first clip with Bob Exler. What is it twenty four seconds. I just want you to hear what he said, and this is probably nineteen ninety seven, just for context. Let's hear what he has to say.

31:16 Speaker 1: I started out extremely skeptical about this whole thing.

31:19 Speaker 4: I thought this was just rubbish from the tabloids.

31:21 Speaker 1: But I was surprised to find thousands of US government documents from intelligence agencies that tended to indicate that there was a little bit more to this than met the eye. So I went to seek guidance from the various highest levels of the United States intelligence community, and I was quite alarmed at what I was able to learn.

31:40 Speaker 3: Does that sound familiar to you that?

31:46 Speaker 4: Yeah?

31:47 Speaker 2: I think we met Exler in nineteen eighty nine at the MUFON conference and then stayed in touch with him over the next couple of years until up to that point. And yeah, his voice rings a bell with me. Sure, Yeah, I.

32:00 Speaker 3: Mean also just like getting hooked on it because you realize there's all these documents that are leading towards we're studying UFOs. We take it very seriously. He got hooked and he had access. That's kind of what happened to you.

32:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, That's exactly the path I followed.

32:13 Speaker 3: All right, So let's now listen. There's just a fifty eight second thing, a new thing, you know, from that same interview. I want to lead us into this interview that he had with Admiral Inman, who made an absolute astonishing admission. So let's hear him. Set it up again. This is Bob Exler, who was investigating this, you know, a NASAs specialist who really got bit by the UFO. Boger was like, I want to find out what's going on. Here's his next little clip.

32:38 Speaker 1: Well, I had contacted Admiral Bobby ray Enman, who was the head of the National Security Agency in the United States, Deputy director at CIA, director of Naval Intelligence, and a variety of intelligence posts, a technologist, and clearly someone that if this was really accurate, that there really were UFOs and non human intelligence around this as a man who had to know. So I was able to contact him thanks to contact through Admiral Lord Hill Norton here in the UK, and this conversation he alarmingly not only indicated that these issues were covered under national secrecy laws, but that the United States government did in fact have possession of the hardware associated with this.

33:20 Speaker 1: In other words, this was an actual physical phenomenon.

33:23 Speaker 3: As the craft a spaceship, several.

33:25 Speaker 1: Of them, and they were in operational condition, which I assume suggested that they had been in contact, that they had been given these craft for some reason or another, because they certainly weren't crashed vehicles.

33:35 Speaker 3: Wow. So here's a guy, he's a UNFO investigator, he's got high credibility, he's got some insight in the intelligence community because of his role in NASA, and he's like, I'm going to call this guy Admiral Inman and I'm going to get through to him. Now. I don't think he legally recorded this recording you're about to hear, but it was an admission. He said, we have craft. They're not just crashed, almost as like they're given to us, which would mean we have some sort of communication. Where have we heard this.

34:01 Speaker 4: Before, Bob Bazaar maybe, yeah, yeah.

34:07 Speaker 3: And a lot. And now now where we are now that there's multiple craft, not just one like Lakatski. Doctor Lakotski was able to admit, but like multiple craft. So let's let's play this audio and again understand the gravity. Who's talking with this former head of the CIA d n I, I mean nssay. This guy was involved in every intelligence agency. He was a really respected and really trusted guy. I don't think he knew he was being recorded. He was talking with a colleague, is what he thought. But wow, let me play this for you twenty five seconds.

34:39 Speaker 3: Just hear what he said.

34:41 Speaker 7: Do you anticipate that any of the recovered that vehicles would ever be uh become available for technological research outside of the military circles. Yeah, honestly, uh Ago the answer a little bit ou whether its time is evolved.

35:01 Speaker 3: They're beginning to a couple of open on it as a possibility. So ten years ago, he says, the answer would have been, no, none of this is coming out. It's not going to get out to this broader scientific community. So that would have made it about nineteen eighty seven. No way. But he's saying maybe now, maybe, now this stuff is going to be able to leak out again. This is in ninety seven. Here we are in twenty twenty four. We're just starting to see maybe some of this kind of coming out. Maybe maybe this big mystery is going to crack open a little bit.

35:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty six years later, we're finally seeing little glimpses of it. I don't think that the leaks, what we're getting right now is part of some master plan, though. I think that the hand of those folks keeping the secrets has been forced on this. And we know right now that they pushback is underway in Washington at the Pentagon and other places. They're trying to plug the leaks right now.

35:58 Speaker 3: Right And So another thing that happened this week that's really interesting, or last week, is that they got a skiff for David Grush to be able to go into or the documents that he has, the reports that he has go into and inform people like Representative Birchett and others who have the authority. So finally they got that skiff. Do you remember that it was so weird? You and I have been in skiffs. That's no problem for us. Why wouldn't they let you know, a decorated intelligence officer tell Congress for overset what they need to know.

36:31 Speaker 3: Well, luckily we're there and we saw a post by Representative Luna that they got the skiff, and I confirmed that with Representative Birchett. So they're going to be able to hear what David Grush couldn't say in the congressional hearing. Are you optimistic about that?

36:51 Speaker 2: I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, they've already run into substantial opposition from within their own party in the House, and you know, I suspect that there's the hand of some Pentagon folks and defense contractors who's been pressuring senior members of the House, the Republican leadership to stop this, which is why there's been a problem in getting a skiff approved, which is ridiculous. They should have had that as soon as they wanted it, asked for it. I'm hopeful that they get to hear it.

37:18 Speaker 2: I'm hopeful the week the public gets to learn some of what they are shared with. But it might be a test case where they're going to give them little breadcrumbs and see who leaks what to see how much further information they'll get down the line.

37:32 Speaker 3: And for our audience that's listening or watching, if you don't know what a skiff is. It's just a secure facility where you can transmit classified information if everybody in that skiff has the proper clearance. So it's one thing to get a skiff, but it's another thing to make sure that everybody has proper clearance. But from what I understand, David Grush is going to be able to tell them not only the program names for these exploitation or reverse engineering programs for UFO, but he's also gonna be able to tell them a list of hostile and non hostile witnesses, people that want to talk and tell you that they've been working on these craft.

38:09 Speaker 3: First direct first hand individuals working on non human intelligence craft, but also from program names to this direct testimony of people working on the crafts that kind of thing, but also the locations, the locations, the holding locations of these non human intelligence craft. Look, man, that will be huge. If you got somebody like Representative birch It in there and he hears this information like he'll keep it confident, but he will push even harder to get that information out. And with that meeting coming up with the DoD Inspector General, Man, it feels to me like it's colliding, like everything's colliding.

38:53 Speaker 3: Like I am optimistic because we have rogue individuals trying to do it right. Like David Gresh, I feel like we're gonna make progres that really hope, So I'm optimistic.

39:03 Speaker 4: I am too.

39:04 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we've talked about it before on this program and elsewhere that national security implications are inherent in this topic. You can't get around it because the technology, if you could figure out how to reverse engineer it, how it works, it'd be an incredible boon to our defense establishment, to the Pentagon, DoD intelligence agencies, everybody. I mean, the weapons potential alone would be tremendous. We're worried that our adversaries are doing the same thing that Russia and China and maybe some other countries are investigating this and trying to get a leap forward in technology as an advantage over US.

39:39 Speaker 2: So national security is baked into this, which is one reason that James Lukatski has been reluctant to spill all the beans that he might know. He worries that appearing before Congress, even behind closed doors, would lead to leaks, and it would be the equivalent of telling Congress would almost be like telling Red China in some world that I have heard. So, you know, I know people are mad at him because he didn't tell everything he knew at once, but of course, you know in UFL world, people are always mad about something.

40:10 Speaker 2: But he told us what he could, what he was authorized to say, and didn't want to go beyond it. But he's hoping to push the topic forward in coming months and years. So I know people are mad at James Lekaski right now, but I think he went as far as he can and as he has told us, there are national security implications baked into this topic and that will apply to Tim Burchett and Luna and other members of Congress who want to push the ball forward.

40:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up. And people are kind of like pissed. They watch last Weaponize. They think he's being evasive, and doctor Colin Keller her too. But I'm going to remind everybody. So doctor Lelkaski made it clear. He says national security is the number one most important thing. This is the kind of guy we trust in the DA. You know, he's doing his best. He says, I'm not for disclosure when it hurts national security. But you know, obviously he is to some degree because he's trying, he's making an effort to get this information out.

41:09 Speaker 3: I will remind people that when we interviewed doctor kellaher on our show, that was the first time we had somebody running as the program manager for the acknowledged UFO program called OSSEP. He admitted that we had UFOs in government possession. He just came right up to that line and when I asked him, he said yes, And that was a bombshell. Back then, there were no details. Before this new book, there were no details. He just says, yes, we have them, and I'm like, oh cool. So that was something that we were able to break back then.

41:45 Speaker 3: But now there's more meat on the bone with doctor Lukowski giving a little bit more information that we were exploiting it, trying to get inside the hole and we did. So Look, there's another thing I want to play for you. There's this little clip. There was this guy named Tom King who was in Admiral Inman's office. So after Exler made this, you know, announcement on television, or maybe just before that, he's like, can I go public with this? And they were like Nope, it would be a big problem. And it was just a cool little audio.

42:15 Speaker 3: They left it on his voicemail and I thought we should play it because this is the kind of call you and I have got. This is the kind of call where like, no, don't do that. So I just want to play this real quick at seventeen seconds. But listen to this guy, Tom King from Admiral Inman's office kind of tell Exler, don't go public with this. Check this out, mitter Ekler.

42:33 Speaker 4: This is Tom King and em Inland's office.

42:36 Speaker 2: Yes, you would be breaching the confidence and or violation.

42:41 Speaker 3: Laws and discussing his involvement in any matter. Right, so you you would be breaching not only confidence, but it would be a violation of laws in discussing, you know, Admiral Inman's involvement in any manner. I mean, man, that kind of call is really it sucks to gain.

43:03 Speaker 4: Yeah. I love that mood music that was playing in the background there. I don't know whether it was in a hookah lounge or what was that.

43:09 Speaker 3: That was just I grabbed something online where I got the audio and it had like dramatic music from a TV.

43:15 Speaker 2: Well, I would just say that there are you know, the pushback is real. There are people that do not want this to come forward. That was nineteen ninety seven when those exchanges happened. We're still waiting for that crowd to come forward with what they know. I would remind people that Lakatski and Kelleher and Bigelow, when they were involved with OSAP, they were trying to track this stuff down. In Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, we had a section where we described one reason for the demise of ASAP is they went knocking on the doors of people who were the keepers of the secrets, trying to access what they thought was the reverse engineering program, and the doors were slammed in their face, and then the knives were out for ASAP, and that was the beginning of the end for the program.

43:58 Speaker 3: I noticed few more clips I want to play where Bob Exler kind of goes big picture, like what you know, why the secrecy? Because everybody wants to know this, Why the secrecy? Why no great photographs? Like why the secrecy? But but before I do that, I remember in our last episode of Weaponized, I mean you were getting pretty annoyed too, You're getting pretty heated, and you asked them because you felt like, gosh, let's just say it. But one of the things you really focused in on is, look, you guys went so doctor Colin kelliher and doctor Lucatski, we're trying to figure out where the good as you say, the goodies are held, where the UFOs, where the saucers are held, and you're really pushing them on that.

44:37 Speaker 3: Can you can you explain that a little bit?

44:40 Speaker 2: Well, you know, you can sense that we I've had these conversations before with those guys, you know, in private, and it has gone a little bit further, well much further than than what we're allowed to say in public. So I was trying to encourage doctor Lekotski to use the platform available to go ahead and say more about it. And I wasn't getting anywhere with either one of them. They're my friends, they're my co authors. I know them really well and you do too, So you know, we wanted to get what we could while the moment was available to us, you know, So we tried, and we're still in good terms with those guys, but you know that's our job was to try to push it a little bit further.

45:21 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they respect it, and I'm sure in some way like they want to be pushed further. And I think we definitely got Lakatski just that one millimeter further. When he says yes, it's true, Yes it happened or whatever, I.

45:34 Speaker 4: Was like, wow.

45:35 Speaker 3: So but yeah, it's got to be frustrating to you all these years. You know, again looking back, if you watch those you know, the New Special Match, you see that you've been on this case from the beginning. I mean, everything John Lee was saying to you was savage, so crazy back in the day in nineteen eighty seven or whenever you first interviewed him. But like along the way, we've learned so much of this is real. So I want to think big picture now. I want to think about this same interview with Exeler.

46:02 Speaker 3: He kind of said some really profound things. Let me play you a clip. It's about it's a minute and a half and it's just kind of how he threw down. And I believe it's nineteen ninety seven when this was done, this interview, but just hear what he had to say minute and a half and I want to get your response. Check this out. His government's the Canadian government, the American government, if they are in possession of spacecraft, if they have made contact with aliens, why don't they tell us?

46:30 Speaker 1: What I was able to learn is that the issue of secrecy dates back into the early nineteen fifties, and in nineteen fifty nine actually, NASA had a study conducted by the Brookings Institution in Washington, DC addressing the issue of whether this alarming issue of a confrontation with an extraterrestrial culture should be a release to the public this information. It was determined that there would be grave consequences for just an overt public pronouncement by government officials, so a determination we would all panic, well not necessarily necessarily just panic, but the issues that it presented, not only theology, but issues involving economics, standards of monetary concerns.

47:14 Speaker 1: If you acknowledge type of technology that renders fossil fuel related industries obsoimately, for example, you have grave consequences economically all the way around the world, all our values are rendered. So the determining yes, the determination was made that the only way to avoid this chaos would be through a slow indoctrination process over a matter of decades. The decisions to maintain secrecy regarding this center more around not upsetting the economic apple KRT, religion, theology issues that come into play, and quite a number of issues that essentially center around science and technology.

47:51 Speaker 3: How does that hold up now, all these years later what he was saying.

47:56 Speaker 2: Well, I think some of those concerns are still a reason to keep this stuff secret. There would be disruption of the world's economy, the fossil fuel industry at a time when our planet is baking and climate change is real and we're seeing the consequences all over, maybe it is time to reevaluate our reliance on fossil fuels. Do we just keep going with that and cook the planet even though it's as dire consequences for the future of humanity. There would be repercussions if we release this stuff. But as Exler says, and as many people have said, and there's the Brookings Report said, you'd have to do this over time.

48:33 Speaker 2: Well, it's been a long time that Brookings Report came out in nineteen sixty. We're a long way down the road for sixty three years or sixty three years since then. I think the public is ready for it. I think we have been conditioned to accept it, and I don't think there would be tremendous turmoil, and religious circles or social institutions would necessarily collapse depending on what the ultimate truth really is.

48:58 Speaker 4: We don't know what it is yet.

49:00 Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to kind of affirm and confirm to people like, look, you and I were interested in this. You've been doing this for so long. We're not part of some government conspiracy. I mean, look, that would be super fun if we were leaked stuff so we could put it out, you know, Maclavelli and messing with the consciousness of humanity across the globe about UFOs. I wish my life was that exciting. We're hungry for the information too. This is not an organized attempt. In fact, we've had to fight for every millimeter when it comes to confirmation of this information.

49:31 Speaker 3: But just hearing Exceller talk about that, look, this has been something that we have been kind of fighting for for a long time. It's been so obvious again, like that movie Don't Look Up. It's so obvious if you really get in there and start looking at Now that we know a lot of the people involved, they're not coming forward willingly. This is not we're having to pull teeth now. The next thing is is the legislation. This has not been finally decided yet, but we are in a good place. If this legislation goes through as powerfully the UFO legislation right now in the National Defense Authorization Act and the Intelligence Authorization Act.

50:09 Speaker 3: Man, it's it's going to put pressure on private industry who where this technology that you and I know has been sequestered to to say what do you got? You can keep it, you know, us as the government can't directly work on it. We want you to keep it, but you got to admit it. We have to have oversay. So I'm hopeful, fingers crossed, it will be a huge day if that legislation, Schumer's legislation, if that gets passed and President Biden signs it, it's going to have major impact. The closest thing we'll ever get to confirmation is right now.

50:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm almost hopeful, which is incredible because I'm usually pessimistic. I'm also hopeful, almost hopeful, that that legislation will pass. But as we have discussed here many times, you know, it's always unpredictable. The UFOs have been on the front burner in the past. There's peaks and valleys of public interest and congressional interest, and something always comes along that Trump's UFOs. Right now, Congress is a mess, you know. The House to Representatives can't pick its next leader.

51:10 Speaker 2: They're shut down in essence, there's no going forward on budgets. There's still the looming possibility that there will shut down the US government. There's impeachment proceedings against President Biden, there's a war in the Ukraine, there's terror in the Middle East. There's always something more important and more pressing than UFO. So I'd like to say that I am hopeful, I am a little bit, but I'll believe it when I see it.

51:35 Speaker 3: So let me play this last part. It's a minute in eleven seconds, and this is again Bob Exler, and he's kind of summarizing kind of what's going on, this idea that we might not be the top of the food chain. I just want to give it as food for thought as we end this episode of WEAPONI to check this out.

51:53 Speaker 1: We do have to come to grips with the reality that perhaps human beings aren't the only intelligence in the universe, and that they have in fact been here to visit in spite of projects like the NASA SETI project, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence in deep space. That there are serious issues associated with this, and we have a mentality where we like to kind of poke fund at the issue through tabloids and so forth. If there's one that comes, there's obviously going to be more. And just like we have different species of humans on this planet, I'm quite certain there's different species of alien life forms, so we could run into metallevolence.

52:30 Speaker 1: In fact, President Reagan on several occasions alerted concern about the potential hostilities from outer space and why would be important for us to work together on this planet with superpowers and so on uniting. Clearly, the problem that we're confronted with here is that although technologically these beings may be more intelligent than us, we appear to be more advanced in areas of civility. We have emotions and things like that, and we have concern for our fellow man. That doesn't seem to be the case necessarily in some of these other cultures.

53:04 Speaker 3: What do you think of that?

53:06 Speaker 2: Well, it raises the kind of big questions that we tackle all the time.

53:10 Speaker 4: I mean, the fact is we don't know the ultimate truth. I don't know.

53:14 Speaker 2: We don't know anybody who knows all of it. David Grush, Jim Lekatski, Colin Kelleher, Robert Bigelow, Bob Lazar, all those guys know more than we do, maybe, but we're not quite sure what the ultimate truth is. So it's hard to predict what the effect on society will be, what the effect on the planet will be, And we don't know what it is that's going to be disclosed. You know, we have a long way to go on this, and there are legitimate concerns both for national security and how the public handles whatever the disclosure might be.

53:45 Speaker 2: Best we can do is keep plugging away at it.

53:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, it reminds me. I saw this thing recently where President gorbachaw where he came out way later and there was this meeting that he had with Reagan where they were walking alone and they dismissed all of their individuals surrounding them, and I think Reagan was in Russia at the time and they were taking a walk and Gorbacheff admitted that what Reagan said to him, and this is like he admitted it, Like there's video of this. He says, you know, look, if we were if the United States was attacked by an extrusco specie, would would you guys defend us?

54:18 Speaker 3: Would you guys have our back? And Gorbachev said absolutely, and so did Reagan. So at that time when you see him at the UN making those big statements about if we were attacked by somebody else, you know, that came from something that came from the idea that we don't know what this is. And I do believe now it appears that we have technology of unknown origin from what appears to be non human intelligence. Was that given to us or is that something that we got from a crash retreevle These are big questions.

54:48 Speaker 3: We just don't know. But David Grush says that he has the holding locations. I know he actually does, so the holding locations of these of these craft full on UFOs. We are this close if we keep pushing within the next year or so to get more information on this. So I will kind of remain optimistic until proven otherwise. It's an exciting time to study the UFO topic. It's got to be exciting for you to see all this very much.

55:14 Speaker 2: So, yeah, after all these years, you know, there was the late Stan Friedman used to say. One reason for the cover up could be that when the people of Earth start thinking of themselves as Earthlings rather than as Americans or Russians, well, no government in the world wants that. They don't want us to think on a global scale. They like the idea of us being nationalistic and provincial. So that might be a reason why it's been so hard to get some of them to cough up what they know.

55:41 Speaker 4: We'll see, we'll see where it goes, all.

55:44 Speaker 3: Right, man, Well, thanks so much, and I know that with the remaining episodes of Weaponized for this season, I hope that we can put some really great stuff into those episodes. Have they stay tuned? And thanks so much, George, talk to you later. Give you that.

56:08 Speaker 4: Never have so few had so much to tell, but could say soe little.

56:17 Speaker 3: Following this Lebanized presentation of Jeremy Corbell, George Napp, Dark Horse Entertainment and Cadence thirteen studios available now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows.