Hunting UFOs & The Search for Life Beyond Earth- MASSACHUSETTS MUFON UFO INVESTIGATOR

0:04 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Tell Disclosure General Worlds. Degrees in electrical engineering from UMass Lowell and Texas Tech, and he works highly works within highly classified defense projects, and serves as a field investigator and media outreach coordinator for Muffon, Massachusetts. He's not just looking at the sky, he's breaking down the physics behind what's flying in it. For mysterious plasmoids and orbs seen by pilots two hydrodynamic propulsion, and time space distortions to secretive Soviet era reverse engineering efforts.

0:54 Speaker 1: We're pulling on every thread and we're doing it. As he said in plain English, if you value conversations like this, where science meet speculation and facts blur into something. For Stranger considered becoming an asset to the show at TDP. It's pay what you think the show is worth, no tears, no gatekeeping, just one community. Whether you join as an unclassified asset or top secret asset, every member gets the same benefits early access and ad free episodes, exclusive content, and more. Hit like share and subscribe, and if you're listening on one of the great podcast platforms like Apple or Spotify, you can leave a rating and a review.

1:34 Speaker 1: It's free and it's one of the biggest ways you can help us with that pesky algorithm. Let's get started, Jim, how you doing super super This is something obviously that you know is new to me. Having these in studio discussions, so you know, kind of boring the lines and bringing it from that zoom style over to the in person has been quite the ride. We're still working out some of the kinks obviously, but no, it really is good to have you here. I really want to dive into today's episode with kind of if maybe if you can give the audience a little bit of background about yourself, how you got into the topic and what kind of keeps you here cool?

2:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks folks. By the way, if you hear any squeaking or that's my co host on Massachusetts mooth on Ons show mass Hysteria, that's come and time. But she's she's being good now. So yeah. Wow. So let's see where do I begin. Well, so, yeah, I won't go into a whole whole biography, but I've always a techno geek, and growing up I would work on all sorts of projects. And it's kind of funny because neighborhood kids would you know, from elementary school after class, anybody from from say you know, athletic, you know, but this is an elementary school all the way up to you know, say bookworms.

3:10 Speaker 2: They'd always be interested in some kid would be walking down the street, you know, hey James, because that's what they called me in elementary school. I hate being called that way. But can I I come on your bedroom? And well, could your latest? And it would always be what's my latest invention? And I have things from like weapons like a slink shot gun to you know, crystal radio and stuff.

3:31 Speaker 1: And you're a little little bob bazaar over there.

3:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well I wish I was that intelligent, but you know, I get my my specialties. But I veered down the track of electrical that's just what I could relate to robots and gadgets and stuff. And then into college, when I was in my junior and senior year, I performed undergraduate search and development in a semiconductor lab. And then I went off to grad school and over at Texas Tech, I was in their plasma and Pulse power R and D lab, which is really interesting because that relates a lot to the U A p U. Yeah, and and that was that was cool culture shock being uh down there in northwest Texas.

4:28 Speaker 2: But yeah, very cool.

4:30 Speaker 1: Yeah compared to like you, Matt, just different worlds.

4:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you don't you know, I learned to appreciate football and and bear and chose and if you're like football, bear nachos, and you're going to be bored on the weekend. Other than for me, it was that with buds or else. Uh go back to research, yeah, you know, so that that was that was my typical weekend.

4:54 Speaker 1: So yeah, so you're big into the electrical engineering, yeah, Matt, or just the electromagnetic field, that kind of stuff and how it works, tinkering with it and inventing things.

5:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of a kind of a gadget guy. So I had I had my own my own small business for about it's about it's about twenty three years total, and eight of those years I was funded small business R and D grants by by departments like National Science Foundation, Department of Energy, and NASA. Oh yeah, really really cool. And that was that was related to supercomputing and cloud computing stuff. So I'm pretty I'm pretty diverse with all, you know, my exposure to stuff.

5:49 Speaker 1: Right, right, So what exposed you to UAP specifically.

5:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeahps, it's kind of interesting. So so nowadays, uh, you know, the paradigm shift is you don't have to be a weirdo or a uh say right, or a social outcast whatever to be into UFOs and u A p s. You've got all sorts of people from all walks of life that are that are recording these things and and reporting and examining and so uh I was. I was always a little bit interested, but highly skeptical, and then probably about I don't know, maybe about eight years ago more or less, I actually told the man in person when I when I saw him at Boston.

6:48 Speaker 2: But Luis Alisondo had his uh I believe it started on a History channel, but he had his docu saries, you know, with all all the other gang and Crush and and Chris Mellan and so forth and and Ryan Graves. And I'm watching this stuff on TV with my parents and I'm like, and I'm seeing the videos and I'm seeing that, like, oh my god, this this stuff is real. And so that's what got me interested. My you know, my aspect is kind of like from a what I what I really dig into is the science and technology aspect and which is why I'm really sinking my teeth into into Jean's book Hygiene Engineering Infinity.

7:42 Speaker 2: Incredible work. And so that's that's what kind of keeps.

7:47 Speaker 1: Me sofied unidentified. The show on History, which was Alizondo's show, like you had stated, So that's kind of what that show either was a tipping point for you.

8:00 Speaker 2: Of Oh, that was absolutely a tipping point for me.

8:03 Speaker 1: Have you met Alexander?

8:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was he had.

8:07 Speaker 1: I met him. I met him in Congress right before he testified.

8:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's a he's a friendly guy. So he was. He was doing different different symposiums around the country. I caught him his second time around. He was in Boston back in March, and so actually he was such an interesting person and topics that that I went with my friend in mouf On, Massachusetts State Director Eric Hartwig, and a couple of close friends of mine. So there was they were total like one and two three, there were five of us including myself. We went to Lose symposium where he spoke, and so myself and one other close friend got there probably about an hour and a half early, and we were just sitting around, you know, near the bar, and so forth and and I was I was busy studying up on on you know what what Lou was probably going to talk about all that.

9:19 Speaker 2: While I'm doing that, She's just looking at She's like, we wasn't on him right there, And I'm like caught up in a in a book and I'm like, I'm like, what who wears? And like I don't see anybody, but I heard his voice Mike, Yeah, it's his voice. And I look and he's there with uh with this uh, this, this big pumped up dude who I guess is a personal friend from probably from when he was in Special Forces and also a bodyguard.

9:45 Speaker 1: And so it was, hey, did he have long hair? That's probably Sean.

9:51 Speaker 2: It was a different gentleman, which I'm not sure you know who is I'm familiar with the names.

9:56 Speaker 1: Okay, but he was in that show unidentified so.

10:00 Speaker 2: Okay, oh no, no, was okay, it was Yeah, I'm not sure if that other gentleman wants is his name? But yeah, but he's but he's uh, he's you know, I know for a fact, based on you know, some of the research I did, he's he is close friends with with little but also the guy was in the I'm pretty sure he was in a Special Forces with him. And it was a big guy that could basically break anybody's head just by.

10:24 Speaker 1: Yeah.

10:25 Speaker 2: And but they were very friendly, and so I just walked up and I don't want an autograph and Bob, I just wanted to shake his hand and tell him, you know that yes really, you know, really impressed and and thankful for his work and so forth. And he was, he was so friendly. The guy let me hug him, which hopefully I didn't wear them out too much. But he's he's like when you take a picture and I'm like, oh, you get that all the time. I don't know bother He's like, no, no, come on. He's like, there's gonna be a big line after us.

10:54 Speaker 2: And he was, he was, he was very kind. He gave me, uh yeah, I know it was a different gentleman.

11:00 Speaker 1: Yeah that's before Congress.

11:03 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that is a different gentleman.

11:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definite. Yeah right so right.

11:08 Speaker 2: Before Yeah, yeah, that's that's really cool.

11:12 Speaker 1: Yeah.

11:13 Speaker 2: And he's he's really down to earth and easy to speak.

11:16 Speaker 1: With, very very very very I got to watch him testify, which was amazing.

11:20 Speaker 2: You know, that's that's totally awesome.

11:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, him and him and Rear Admiral Tim Goddett. So let me let me ask you this so you get involved, you get interested in the topic. Yeah, have you ever had a sighting or have you ever seen anything you can't explain?

11:40 Speaker 2: I have, although my that was growing up, although that was my brother and when we grew up in Maldon and to this day, I'm trying to convince my brother to to file a report. But my brother is very skeptical and inquisitive. So when when he does foul report or you know, I'll beg and plead with the State Director who's also a bud. But when it comes to business, it's business. I'll say, you know, is it okay if I if I look at this since I was actually you know, I was a witness. But you know, if you're if you're filing a report with MOUF on Mutual ufone network for those folks that don't know what that means, then you usually can't investigate the same case that you filed on.

12:27 Speaker 2: There. You know, there's there's probably exceptions. Eric, the State Director was explaining to me, but as a general rule, you're not supposed to because what it does is a bias is.

12:37 Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, it was a built in bias because you're you're you're going to be starting from a point either too skeptical trying to prove what you saw was prosaic, or the other side, which is even worse, is saying it's unknown and only seeing the because you can. It's very easy to carry pick data in your favor or for your narrative and not see anything that would contradict it and throw it out so I could. It's it's understanding.

13:08 Speaker 2: Most people are unintentionally doing that too. And and the thing like like you like you just said, taia is you know, based on different cases and and also interviews with folks on on the Moovefun Mass Hysteria show, I've seen witnesses or heard about witnesses who would do something similar that I've done with other things in life, not necessarily sightings, but just say people situations where you get a set of data and you go, well, clearly APUs B plus C brings me to conclusion D. But in reality people on the outside say, well, geez, is the data sets much bigger and it's like apos B pus C all the way to why will bring you to conclusion Z something totally different and so so that you know, pretty much aligned with you said about uh, you know, being prosaic if if you were to you know, conduct your own investigation of your own observances.

14:10 Speaker 1: Yeah. So okay, So so tell me what you and your brother saw.

14:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so he was my brother had always been into astronomy, and for me, it was kind of like, oh that's cool, that's interesting. Uh not really my thing. So this, you know, what brought me in really was was Low's show and the funny thing about lou by the way, and then I'll get off that topic, but is when I told him that he didn't bat an eyelash, he didn't. Of course, he wasn't amazing. He just he just he just he just kind of you know, he listened to me, and he gave me fifteen minutes of his time, which was quite generous.

14:45 Speaker 2: But you know, but the point is, I'm sure he was used to to hearing it. He was, yeah, yeah sure, But so my brother, you know, he used to study these things growing up, and and so he observed the thing. And I'm not sure, you know, he would have to file the report because he's got the full memory. I'm not sure if it was seasonal or if it was all year round, but I do know when we've grown up in Malton a couple of years a row in a in a rubble, same spot in the sky, you know, relatively the same time at night, he saw something that would that was very bright, repeated repeated, So I mean right away, you know, you you know, you would think it's like an astronomical body.

15:37 Speaker 1: Anomally or or not even anomally, because it's repeated, then that would make it maybe.

15:43 Speaker 2: A galaxy or maybe a quasar.

15:45 Speaker 1: Or something something, something that's in our orbit every and you see it once a year around the same time at the same that would make sense. But what you're saying, so you're saying it's not that well, or at least he was convinced.

15:59 Speaker 2: He's convinced it's not. It was very funny and boy scouts they were giving a hard time because he was talking about it. And it was like it was a spot in the sky that was very bright, changing, you know, went from like say, sort of like a diamond shape to a circle shape or so it was changing shapes literally by the second. And it was like if you look at it through a pinpoint would be very bright pinpoint, and then through the telescope that looked like maybe about the size of of of a nickel, not quite the size of the quarter, and the same same spot.

16:40 Speaker 2: So you know, the you know, the first thing would be okay, look up, look up different charts and so forth and dates and see what see what astronomical bodies are up there. But for whatever reason, my brother was convinced it was something different, just because of the continued changing colors and shapes. But which is you know that is a that is that's rare?

17:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't that's satellites don't do that. Planets don't do that. Right, nothing that I know does that except something unknown.

17:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it could be I mean it could be. Uh. I mean so it was never filed as a case. And I'm still trying to convince my brother to file it.

17:27 Speaker 1: Has he gone back and like, because if it's coming back on a yearly basis At that same time, as he continued to look.

17:35 Speaker 2: At me, I would I would recommend him to do that. I mean, he he lives, he lives towards some central mass now not really not really am all of them, but I mean I would encourage him to do that because he still has his telescope and all that stuff.

17:49 Speaker 1: Well, give me the coordinates, I'll go on the day in time, I'll look for it. But what year was this because so.

17:58 Speaker 2: This was in the let's say early eighties.

18:04 Speaker 1: Not too many satellites up there yet, No, no, yes, that's very weird. So and he saw this over multiple years.

18:12 Speaker 2: At least a couple of years.

18:14 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. So you saw it as well, yes, so.

18:19 Speaker 2: You know he would line up the telescope. He even showed my mom.

18:22 Speaker 1: And so multiple witnesses.

18:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I have a couple of ideas on what it is, but you don't. You don't know until you've you've proven it out right, and then it either becomes well, I mean depending on how you how you prove it out. You identify it like airplane, which you know obviously not you know, or you know, you say drone or whatever, you could say star see spotlight or whatever, which you know it wasn't right.

18:55 Speaker 1: You run the gambit of the prosaic explanations and you see what you know. So I understand that, and I get that, but it sounds like it's pretty so so.

19:05 Speaker 2: His peers were wrong. I'll tell you that his peers were in boys go to so hysterical. They're like they were yelling and shouting. That. That is one thing I'll say in general, being in a science and engineering community.

19:19 Speaker 1: Like a STEM community, yeah.

19:21 Speaker 2: Like in my uh yeah, the STEM community exactly in academia. Sometimes I'll be at conferences and you get scientists shouting at each other about someone's results, which I thought was bizarre. I got shouted at once because I just asked a question. And then and engineering, you're in a conference room or something and and people start shouting at each other about what something is or something's not correct, and that that's for me, that's a big turn off because it's like, you know, it's like if you believe something or you're refuting it, all you have to do is state the facts and keep it a constructive conversation.

19:59 Speaker 2: So that that is that that is one thing I never understood. And you know, with with move On, it's it's pretty pretty uh, pretty constructive and pretty you know, pretty discussion oriented. I you know, you never know. I'm sure that there have been arguments and shouting matches, but as far as I know, it's it's mostly you.

20:18 Speaker 1: Know, civil and yeah, yeah, yeah. If there's a discourse, it's it's healthy discourse rather than what you're talking about. Is I mean, when you're presenting something, you're you know, you're going out, you're putting yourself out there. And often that's how it is, is you know you're you're the one who's going to be putting yourself out there. But that means you're also putting yourself out there to be criticized. Right, Like people always want to tell me how I should run the show, what questions I should ask.

20:51 Speaker 1: It's like I'm the one, You're doing it right, right, And and I said, and I know what you mean. It's very off putting from a science standpoint because you're not gonna want to be that person getting yelled at.

21:02 Speaker 2: So you're not gonna.

21:03 Speaker 1: Want to speak up, even if you have a brilliant idea or some not maybe not even a brilliant idea, but something that could advance the conversation is now hindered or being hindered because of the environment itself. So like to say that science isn't without its flaws is to say that that's just plain it's wrong. Like the science science, mainstream science. There's a reason that they've allowed themselves to be to be ignorant when it comes to UFOs, right, They've allowed themselves to be brainwashed by you know, the hokey dokey little green men, you know, when in reality, we now know that the government has been looking into this for probably ever and this is a legitimate phenomena.

21:57 Speaker 1: Like the government has spent spent quite a bit of money, and you do not spend that much money if on something that doesn't exist. Right, So here doing a full circle. I know I'm talking a lot here, but I'm getting somewhere with it. In the mainstream science, mainstream science community, was it scary for you to come out and say that you believed in UFOs?

22:20 Speaker 2: Not scary, but.

22:26 Speaker 1: Because there had to be a moment where you came.

22:28 Speaker 2: Out feeling a little how do I put it? Trying, I'm trying to think of a good word. Well, they say, uh, you know, going against the grain is a good thing, Oh very much. Yeah, I guess I guess you could say maybe I don't know how put into words, but getting used to not all but some people just giving you strange looks or like or like you know, kind of smirking or smiling at you whatever.

23:00 Speaker 1: You you're that guy, know, yeah, because I'm that guy.

23:03 Speaker 2: Sometimes not always. But you know it's what's interesting is then that like in the science and engineering community, it's fifty to fifty because then the other the other half, you know.

23:14 Speaker 1: It's crazy. Yeah, sorry to cut you off. The other half. Half of those people want to talk about it, that's right, but they have some sort of predisposition against it, like religion or there if they're scientists more or less their atheism which becomes a religion in itself or pressure. Yeah, they won't but they so they won't touch it. And then the other half they're just naive and you know, but whatever. So it's funny that you say that, Oh.

23:43 Speaker 2: Oh, totally ty and and so you know, I do have colleagues and friends on both sides of the fence. And the one, you know, one that was encouraging a close friend of mine, he h, you know, he agreed with me that you know, some of these things that were for example, that they have been in the news, that have been also in in in some of the videos that are related to the congressional hearings, that it's totally far beyond the ability of any adversarial technology. And these are you know, that opinion not only comes from a friend of mine who's, you know, very highly educated engineer with probably like forty five plus years of experience, but you've got other highly educated scientists and engineers out there too, made a name, but you and I already know a bunch of them that that believe simply, you know, right, we're all not saying that we're going to be taken over on the planet Earth by a bunch of little green men zipped around fine sauces.

24:58 Speaker 2: We're just simply saying there's something to it, and it lo and behold right all the main and omily resolution office established for this very thing. You know, there's pros and cons. Sometimes sometimes we feel, you know, as a country, that they're forthcoming. Other times we feel like, for one reason or another they can't be, or they're told not to be. So that's you know, it depends on depends on you know who whose opinion. But if there wasn't something to it, then there would not be such an office established.

25:33 Speaker 2: And and then finally I would just say it's you know, it's it's something worthy of of discussion and and understanding, if nothing else, I mean for me to be honest with you, why I'm in it. I'm just I'm just enthralled with it. And it's basically it's a pastime.

25:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you don't get paid to do that.

25:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, which, which is another thing which you know a lot of people will say, oh, yeah, you're you're u fall just so people already understand that you're not making any money off this or whatever, and you know, yeah, I just think it's cool. And I can tell you that I lost kind of how many people I've already met by being involved.

26:13 Speaker 1: The sheer number of things I've heard from highly, highly, highly credible people. I like, I can't be that naive, and I've seen things that I can't explain. I've seen things with my own eyes, tree top level, broad daylight, just a disc come right over my head. And I lived next to Hanscom Air Force Base, which you're probably familiar with, so I knew what flew, and I grew up in the time of nine to eleven. I know what flies and what doesn't fly. This thing shouldn't have been in the air right by all known physics and known aircraft.

26:55 Speaker 1: This thing should not have been flying, but it was. And it was oscillating and moving forward at the same time, right, and you know, no rivets, no scenes, so it's spin, oscillating and moving forward, moving forward at the same time. So it's spinning and moving forward, right. And this thing came over tree top level and I know what I saw. No one can tell me that I didn't see it, right, But my mother, she didn't tell me, like you saw a bird, or you saw a plane, or you saw God, you know, or you didn't see anything at all, and you just you're just a kid.

27:31 Speaker 1: You don't know what you're seeing. She's like, you saw UFO. I'm like, what's the ufo? We had the whole conversation. She never told me what to believe. She just let me believe or know that there was things out there that we didn't know. So I grew up just understanding that there was The world was not black and white, right, There was a lot of gray. And it sounds like you've come to that conclusion too.

27:55 Speaker 2: Oh oh, totally, this is totally too much. There's there's totally call it shades of gray or thin gray lines as opposed to as opposed to black and white. And that's why I like, you know, in in different interviews or discussions, you know, you might hear me say that that I'm on the fence about something, which which means that I'm always trying to you know, decide or you know, be you know, from an unbiased standpoint, just drawn all the all the data that I have, and you know, and discussions and you know, research and and try to come closer to to what I believe, and there's yeah, there's a lot of unknowns or well, you know a lot of times I use the expression in high likelihood or in all likelihood, but you know, you know, ship changes, and you could go down one path thinking that you know, a certain phenomena is one thing, and then find out that it's that it's.

29:03 Speaker 1: Not radically different. And I think one of the things I think we need to do in this community is be humbly wrong and open to being wrong. And with that being said, you know, without naming individuals, are there any recent or compelling cases that you've seen involving orbs, plasmoids or polyhedral shaped craft enveloped in this plasma? Because I'm sure you know of several accounts like the nuclear accounts where these orbs, these orange it's consistently orange orbs that are being seen over nuclear bases and they're shutting down our nuclear weapons and or turning them on in some cases that in Russia what is now modern day Ukraine.

29:55 Speaker 1: So any recent cases like that, because I think there's correlation.

30:02 Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a really excellent, extremely thorough study

30:13 Speaker 2: written by gentleman by name of.

30:17 Speaker 1: Hastings Robert UFOs and nukes.

30:21 Speaker 2: Very thorough study. And oh yeah, and I'll give it another shout out to my buddy that that taught me all about that. Someone who's another UFO nuke expert. The fact is Freddie o'dahll hi Freddy He's yeah.

30:38 Speaker 1: Is he local?

30:39 Speaker 2: He Freddy is is over in Denmark and so yeah, we had a nice discussion about about UFOs and in Greenland and and then and we had other topics, but he introduced me to the whole UFHO and nuke thing that I was I was familiar with, and it's I mean, I always need more data. Speaking with with other experts, their opinion is that you know, there's a correlation, but how much of a correlation because these type of facilities need cameras and other monitoring equipment for obvious security reasons. So when you look sooner or later, when you you know, let's say use the term rewind or go through all the footage whatever, you're going to see things.

31:39 Speaker 2: But but who's to say that you haven't seen similar things in other locations? So say it's like it's sort of I don't know if you call it pre biased or or or say site specific data as opposed to like a whole a whole population of you know, that's a statistical term, but a whole population of of data points taken in a larger area. That's you know, I have theories about why they hang out there, and.

32:09 Speaker 1: And well okay, yeah, let me let me rephrase this. Sure, any like any recent cases for you that you've investigated with dealing with, because it seems like, rather than the discs and the flying saucers that used to be seen, it's now orbs and balls of light and plasma that are being seen more often than not.

32:38 Speaker 2: Nice paradigm shift, isn't it.

32:40 Speaker 1: Yeah?

32:41 Speaker 2: Strange, isn't it?

32:42 Speaker 1: It's very strange.

32:44 Speaker 2: Yeah. The only exception to that rule is back in the day, ty, Yeah, certainly defined us but also let's call them triangles or boomerangs, right, like the famous Lubblic lights, which is still a big mystery, by the way, Spotted by a bunch of professors. That's how it was reported from. It was something Texas College Institute, but which was actually the the same school is where I went, Texas Tech. So yeah, so yeah, yeah, I did a little research on that. I thought that was funny. But in all sorts of theories behind what that that was or or was not, so so yeah, so those those two types of crap back down versus now, God's sakes, is almost any kind of anomena you've got, you've got rods, spheroids which are you know, have been have been let's say, studied and documented.

33:49 Speaker 2: This is referring to the Tedesco brothers. They had documented some spheroids that they had observed and recorded that were polyhedrons, which basically, oh is that right?

34:05 Speaker 1: Price is literally calling me do you sorry?

34:12 Speaker 2: Either way? So, so, so these these polyhedrons, it's not just a typical cube, it's it's it's well, it's a geometrical volume, let's say, surrounded by a plasma. And so yeah, so so yeah, pretty unusual and weird, and so then the whole question comes up. Some of these have been documented and shown to be to be suspect of being a let's call it either either a non human intelligence produced or else, let's say, highly rare or unusual craft, where others have been demonstrated or studied observed to have been, you know, nothing short of a different type of life form.

35:06 Speaker 1: What the right? You can't rule that out? That that and maybe that's what our ancestors saw and called god, right, is these these crafts, but they're not really craft they're more of the being itself. And maybe that's why, you know, they use language that they can only like that because they didn't have words like airplane, right, So they had to deframe it in ways that they could understand it and convey it. So, you know, what they called gods and angels and demons, maybe we call aliens and UFOs, right, So who's to say it's not just the same thing, like Jack vla Is put forth right, it's from fairies to gods and demons and angels all the way up to aliens and UFOs.

35:53 Speaker 1: What do you think UFOs represent to human beings?

35:59 Speaker 2: Is it the being weirded? Out, very very very strange. So so you know, I've investigated a different reports that that ranged from you know, and I you know, out of respect for the individuals and also just according to uh TO UH move on field investigator rules. And I won't say any specific cases or people, but I'll just say that, you know, we've had we've had abduction experiences where people know for a fact that they've been abducted and they felt all those sensations and they have specific memories.

36:45 Speaker 2: Yet you know, they either wind up, you know, back at home and and other people around them say that they had a similar experience at the same time, right, or or other people sort of just losing track of time, you know, from obvious missing time. Yeah, yeah, you know, I've I've had some experiences although they have not been abduction that you know that would really weird me out. And you know, I have a lot of empathy for people who've gone through that, the the crafts themselves. I think it's a cross between, you know, My my opinion is people would have a cross between being weirded out and also sort of mystified.

37:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard of Chris Bloods?

37:40 Speaker 2: Yes?

37:41 Speaker 1: What do you think think of his account. What do you think of his account? Because he puts it in that religious framework that he calls angels and you know, talks about the lady. But what he's filming and putting out there is these orbs. And I've been there when he's called them in was that Contact in the Desert and he did it, but I have a He invited me to his house to see it as well. I introduced him at Contact in the Desert before he did a workshop. I introduced him and I've had him on the show before.

38:15 Speaker 1: But he's always putting videos out of these like plasma orbs flying through the sky and like it's like, you know, it looks like plasma going through it, but it's these perfect spheroids going through the sky and it's amazing. But he called he think he called, I don't we can take the religious framework off of it. Whereas he thinks he they're the angels. What do you do you think that those are craft? Or do you think those are like the Nhi themselves? So with your background, given your background.

38:54 Speaker 2: I honestly don't know. To be honest, I'm familiar with some of his work. I'm kind of a I'm kind of a more of a geek again, And so I've been I've been enthralled with in studying the work by the by the Tedesco brothers.

39:17 Speaker 1: John and Jerry for about three years.

39:20 Speaker 2: And yeah, there they are wonderful, and so with them, I'm certainly more familiar with with what they're theorizing or hypothesizing their observations. To be I I have my own thoughts on if it's if it's just a plain old plasmoid, and if it maintains its shape and it's not let's say, through different uh different multi spectral uh you know, instruments cameras or or whatnot, and and e M F sensors. If if it turns out that there's no underlying structure or there there are researchers out there that have discovered nanotubes in some of these plasma objects, it's at this whole other interesting, uh topic.

40:11 Speaker 2: But if there's nothing underlying and it's it's literally just let's call it plasma, which is it's an ionized gas, which means it's a gas that has charge, but it's contained in a spherical shape.

40:24 Speaker 1: Right.

40:27 Speaker 2: My. You know, there's there's a lot of different there's a lot of different things out there. Like some people say, well, depending on the color, it's it's an observation probe, or it is a destructive probe, like I'm sure you you know all the skin Walker narrative, like you know, the blue destructive orbs and so forth. Or it's a called a devious orb or manipulative or interactive, you know, in a negatively orb like you know, a red colored and and so forth. So my my thought is, and I wish I knew that I have I have I have two.

41:07 Speaker 2: I have two hypotheses. One is it's a type of it's a type of remote probe by you know, in all likelihood of non human origins, not yea non human intelligent origin. Or my second, my second hypothesis is, you know, again it's non human intelligence life form itself. And you know, people people time may may be thinking, okay, well that's a bunch of hocus pocus, or that's like either wishful thinking or it's magic or whatever, but really, if you think about it, you know, Jacques Cousteau or whomever, you know.

41:52 Speaker 2: Nowadays, new life forms underwater are always being discovered, So who to say that there aren't new life forms? You know, on the surface, in the air, whatever that we don't know about, because I mean, i'm you know, we don't, we don't. You know, the only person that knows everything generally speaking, you know, a person, a human being who claims to know everything is full of shit, you know that.

42:20 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of them in the community.

42:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, the most tells are people that I know you know are also the same people that will say, oh, I've never heard of that before, could you explain that to you? Which is a good thing, because that's how people learn from each.

42:37 Speaker 1: Other, right, And there's supposed to kind of be this natural discourse as well, is uh where you know and and that, And I find that to be healthy for someone to be a skeptic, it's one thing. A healthy skeptic is another, right, someone who's willing to be wrong if they're proof, you know, if the if the data set goes the right, you know, tells you one thing, you know, it's it's it's totally different. So I just find it odd that in Bob's Alice is Malmstrom incident in Dave Schindeli's mine, not air force based incident in Mario Woods's Ellsworth air force based incident, all of which had nuclear weapons, nuclear weapon facilities, all of which had him.

43:23 Speaker 1: All were breached by these orange plasma orbs and they either shut the nukes down in the Mine not and Malmstrom case, and then in Mario Woods's case at Ellsworth, he was abducted by it. So, I mean it tells me that I asked Bob, what do you think that the messages that is trying to be sent? And he said,

43:55 Speaker 1: he essentially said this to me. He said, it's a non human intelligence saying you think these are the most powerful weapons, but we can turn them off at a dime, so be careful. It was basically a warning to the humanity to not use them, get rid of them, right, And that's what he thinks, And I'm inclined to believe him, and and the other nuclear controllers who say this. They think that they are trying to send a message to humans, but without directly like landing on the White House lawn like everybody wants.

44:30 Speaker 1: They're trying to send us a message through the people like the key turners. I mean, who who better to to send that message to than the people who have their hands on the keys to the nuclear weapons. So if the president calls and wants to launch a strike, that persons the one who turns the key. So that's who I'm going to go to, not the president, not I mean, I don't probably if I was an NHI, i'd probably go to the president too, but I would go to the lawn lunch controller and change their perspective, you know, because there's so many times I'm sure you've heard in the Soviet Union where they turned the weapons on and we were seconds away from annihilation and one man said, no, I'm not launching.

45:15 Speaker 1: He said, there's something wrong. That man saved our lives, the whole world. But guess what, they killed them. They killed him for disobeying because they ordered a launch because they had thought that we were launching on them, and it turns out it was false and that guy was right and it was vindicated. But because he disobeyed and he wouldn't launch on command, they killed him. He saved the world that day. But these orbs, these things are trying to tell us something, and I think we're stupid, or it shows how intelligent we really are that we're not even willing to pay attention.

45:55 Speaker 1: We're more interested with what Kim Kardashian's wearing to the met gala.

46:00 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, it is, and it does give you perspective tie well, I mean it's a it's always good to have a well a well balanced life, and so yeah, if people are interested in the Kardashians, whether that's great, but also to you know, let's say, be technically a stude or at least be aware of things. It's it is kind of interesting how these you know, these different UFO reports or observations or UAPs now make it into the mainstream media news on occasion, like be it Fox News or whatnot, and a lot of them.

46:37 Speaker 2: It's amazing that many people will still say, oh what what UFO report or what what u A P? Or I oh no, I didn't.

46:44 Speaker 1: News nations covering it all the time. The internet is I mean, I think it's changing the paradigm. I really do. I think it's really the older people, the the fifty five plus age range, the ones that watch mainstream news and you know, kind of are a little bit old school. Those are the people that are less prone to take this seriously. For I, I and I understand it. It's the the the age range below that that's really like changing, you know, because how connected the internet makes everybody, right, it's it's allowing people to kind of express themselves but without being subjugated directly in person like, So it's changing the game, I think.

47:37 Speaker 1: But I want to talk about engineering infinity. But do you want to take a break real quick?

47:44 Speaker 3: And maybe yeah, and and then and closing with the with the plasmoid's tired, I will say that, you know, my my other hypothesis is that it's.

47:57 Speaker 2: Similar to there's there's something out there. I'm not sure you may have heard the term Boltzmann brain, and so there are there are plasmoids. Yeah, exactly, there are plasmoids and outer space related to I guess just you're probably where like so so you know, beyond the planet, so in the Solar System and in the galaxy and so forth, there are ionized gases and other types of gases and so forth left over from creation of the Solar System, of the palaxy of the universe. So you've got different I don't know if you want to say groups or or categories of of plasmas, which again that's that's a gas.

48:44 Speaker 1: And the different colors may kind of tell us what elements. It's true.

48:49 Speaker 2: That's true too. And I guess they've been observed, you know, I've only read a little bit on it, but they've they've been observed by astronomers, including physicist who is an astronomer by name of Lasson Boltzmann. And these things will move around in outer space. It look almost like they're hanging out with each other, running around, chasing each other, hang out in a group with with a bunch of others, and they seem to have a pseudo intelligence. And his theory was and I believe in his his theory in some cases, you know, like charges repel opposite charges attracts these charged gases and that's why they're running towards each other or chasing each other whatever.

49:35 Speaker 2: But in other cases, it is totally true. If you think of a neural network and how that's wired up or how that's programmed, that theoretically you could have charges arranged and you know, an immense amount you know, I'd say, you know, I'd say probably millions, if not more, of atoms and molecules in a given you know ion, you know, charge gas and out of space in such a way that there are electrical connections that are emulating or very similar to, uh to logical or even thought activity. So whether it's artificial intelligence wired up in a plasma gas, or if it's an actual, say, early form of life, and then there's all these different theories about what happens to that life form eventually and where they go and stuff, you know that part Who knows, but I definitely subscribe to the to the theory of the Boltzmann brain.

50:43 Speaker 2: That'll be cool if because like all the range right, all the rage right now AI and you could do all sorts of stuff and software and hardware and so forth. And you know, I'm interested in in uh, plasmoids, even though you could get burned no pun intended, that would be so cool to to create one, you know, whatever, how is a pet? A pet? I mean at least won't work, but walk your plasmoid around?

51:08 Speaker 1: That'd be insane, but could that be Uh Yeah, we'll take a break and we'll get back to this. But yeah, so all right, we'll be right back. Gone. Man, we're back on. So we were just talking about orbs and and plasmoids and stuff like that. I kind of want to talk about, uh what you what are your thoughts on Uh, do you think that the do you think that the US government or the deep state or whoever you want to call it, do you think that we are in possession of reverse engineered UFOs?

51:53 Speaker 2: Okay, Like, so my standard answer with that, like if if if I'm convinced of something, I'll I'll say it. But you know, I'm gonna have to refer back to my standard answer of I think there's something to it, and I don't know, Like a lot a lot of people are convinced we've got something, and I've heard from very good sources that I've known for a good part of my life that that the US has something. And so, you know, normally, based on on that, a lot of people would say yes. But I'm one of those people.

52:35 Speaker 2: Like seeing is believing, see with your own eyes, and and that's which is you know, No, indoubtedly, it's that's a source of frustration for well, have you seen.

52:44 Speaker 1: A billion dollars? Have you ever seen a billion dollars?

52:48 Speaker 2: Nope?

52:49 Speaker 1: You know it exists though, right.

52:52 Speaker 2: That's right?

52:53 Speaker 1: So you see what I mean totally without I.

52:57 Speaker 2: Think that there's high technology. I think that not not even cutting edge, not even bleeding edge. I think that there's ultra sophisticated technology out there, and you know, I'm convinced, I'm convinced that the US is in possession of it, as are you know, our adversaries. But you know where the origins are from, you know, where it's originated from? I don't know, Like, you know, there's theories like, oh, you know, there was a whole race of humans that that evolved and and we probably found things for them, and other other theorists are like, well, you know, it's non human intelligence originated and and so forth.

53:40 Speaker 2: So I'm you know, i'd say, I'd say, I'm nearly certain that that's you know, at least the major you know, the world superpowers or in possession of some extremely advanced technology of which the origins are uncertain, at least at least to me. I'll go there now. But you know, you know, were they non human where they evolved humans? Or maybe maybe you know, let's say I wouldn't collor an elite group of humans, but let's just say sort of a an outgrowth of a of a certain a certain group of people from from society somewhere, civilization, a breakaway civilization maybe maybe something like that.

54:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that too.

54:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is like that, that's like, you know, is it non human intelligence or originating craft? I'm on the fence, but is there is there something that our government is in possession of and and also the other superpowers that even they don't fully understand and they're trying to figure it out. Yeah, I'm like I'd say, I'm like maybe ninety percent certain. Just there's so much, there's so much out there and so many, so many you know, stories although they're here, say, and so much documentation.

55:09 Speaker 2: But but you go, you go by uh, you go buy some things like bizarre and of course uh Jane Sticko with Valorus's.

55:20 Speaker 1: Uh, I think those are connected.

55:22 Speaker 2: Oh, I totally think they are too. And and going by that, clearly there's advanced technology. Where where it comes from? I don't know. I don't you know, I might be wrong, but I don't recall the phrase or terminology non human intelligence within engineering funny, But I might be wrong, And thatswer Jane, forgive me if I if I missed that, But but I I do recall and and I even had to check by a couple of folks I know that that speak fluent Rush and you know UFO is called out or the UFO and so that much you know, it's it's unidentified and you know, the origins from where not clear.

56:13 Speaker 2: You know, it's impact and interaction with the solar system, the galaxy, the universe totally totally there. And as far as as as far as you know, which intelligence originated it, it's that's that's not clear to me, but it's it's definitely stuff that's that's that's practically beyond human comprehension. And I understand bits and pieces of it, which is you know this, you know this, you know this work that gene and and Attalia put together with their colleague Mario on Vi Lyrius channel j Ed's work, so all in the book Engineering Infinity, you know, which is uh the lyricus the Soviet scientists, you know, either hypothesising you know, theoretical work or or hands on work of how such a craft would operate.

57:12 Speaker 2: You know, my my assessment based on based on what I can understand of it. You know, I can understand some of the chemistry, a lot of the electrical engineering. It looks it looks certainly real enough to me. But although there is a lot of stuff that's like above my head as far as understanding.

57:32 Speaker 1: Right, and because you know, mathematics is a universal language, right, and so that part of it you're you're you're kind of looking at it and seeing it and validating that it's you know that that part of it it can be vindicated. So I think there is.

57:50 Speaker 2: Some debate on that tie because, like I was, I was explained to Gene that there was something times ten to the power of three, know, in other words, a thousand. So there's there's international standards of scientific notation, which is very similar to mathematics, which you say, is the universal language, like kilograms uh meters, you know, so representing things in power of powers of ten. So like that's how scientists and engineers do. It's like if you want to say a thousand, you would say, well, if you have ten to the three particles of whatever, right, So, but you know, so that's what I was trying to convey to Gene stick of the author of Jeri Infinity.

58:34 Speaker 2: But his point was that in Russian there three different the number three or you know what looks like a three. I think he was explained to me there were three different meanings in Russian cyrillic. They could be they could be a few different things.

58:52 Speaker 1: Which yeah, complicates a lot of that.

58:54 Speaker 2: Yeah. So so from that perspective, you know that that threw me off a little bit. So then I kind of took a step back and I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna stick with the basic equations for magnetic fields and you know voltage and so forth, and little rents for us and and things like that that you get electrical engineering and you know interaction with particles in charge and you know those those things so far, you know, I've I don't know if you want to say, cross examined or sanity checked, and they they look correct to me.

59:29 Speaker 2: And I've I've shown some of these things to a few colleagues, right.

59:33 Speaker 1: And you know what baffles me is in the nineteen fifties, you know, in magazines at the time, which were still a thing popular mechanics, engineering whatever. In the fifties, it was all about where about the g engines are coming right, and we're in all these people, all these scientists are talking about how we're about to crack groundvity and we're on the cusp of being able to manipulate gravity, uh YadA, YadA. And then in the late fifties, it just goes on, it goes HiT's a wall and has never talked about again.

1:00:15 Speaker 1: So you have to ask yourself. It's like, okay, well what happened. Either it was a catastrophic failure and science want to cover it, coverts ass and not show that it spent this bunch of money and failed, or it worked and it went underground into the deep black programs of what was being established then as the military industrial complex, right, because that's you know, in forty seven forty eight, the National Security Act is signed into law NSAY, FBI, CIA, They're all formed between forty seven and fifty two, so I think, and they're seizing patents left and right.

1:00:58 Speaker 1: They're just sees patents, and then they're telling people that you know, your patent is either going to end up on a shelf or you can only only contract with us, the US government, because of national security reasons. And so at that point, you know, if you if you were an inventor, you have an invention that is gravity related, you're it's seized by the government and they say you can only work with us due to national security reasons. Well that's there. You go, there's your funnel and that's how it ends up in the black programs, and then Eisenhower ends up warning us about it the military industrial complex and what it was growing to be Lockheed Martin, you know, ras Koltart just came out and said that the TIC TAC is most likely Lockheed Martin techtonic technology from the two thousand and four craft.

1:01:54 Speaker 1: So Electro, I think that there's something to this, that these craft are creating their own gravity and essentially falling through space and time, and that's why, you know, so I think it's all connected. I think gravity research why it went.

1:02:13 Speaker 2: Underground, certainly, I mean where it went, you know, like the military industrial complex or some other theories. I'm on the fence, sorry when I when I say that, but but but the fact that they're all connected, I'm I'm totally in agreeing with. And the thing that gets blurred to me is, you know, so it's it's it's well known out there that you know, and it was already stated in Congress that due to national security reasons, the country and people involved with certain programs are not allowed to openly acknowledge these programs.

1:02:51 Speaker 2: And the reason is because you jeopardize national security, and you know, so you say, have some great guys that are advocating for disclosure, but you know, in an open form a congress like well, I'm sorry, Ram, I can only discuss that Departmental Information facility aka skiff s C. I F some people get frustrated, but I could see that being used as a mechanism to avoid disclosure. But you know, my my hunches a lot of it, especially for the good you know, the well intentioned folk that are trying to disclose things.

1:03:26 Speaker 2: They're just trying to obey the rules to protect themselves but also to make sure that security doesn't get compromised. So you know, I'll go as far as that. And I I really don't know about this military industrial complex. And I'm sure there's some degree. I have no doubt about that, but I'm not sure if I'm not sure how far deep it goes, you know, I just yeah.

1:03:47 Speaker 1: Well, there's a theory that the craft themselves.

1:03:52 Speaker 2: I warned about, like you said, which I do know historically he warned about it. Yeah, then, like you said, there's something to it. The question is because point in time did they stop doing that nonsense?

1:04:02 Speaker 1: If they did right right, right, and and because there's there's this theory that the craft themselves may be engineered to focus or manipulate em fields. Can you explain how the material of a craft might contribute to its ability to warp gravity or space time?

1:04:20 Speaker 2: Yeah? Crazy stuff, isn't it crazy? So that that's a mouthful, Yeah, it is a mouthful. So so so the more and more I read into engineering infinity, the more and more I learn. So I I skim through something and if I'm interested, I read it again and absorb what I can. And then when I read it again later because I you know, I kind of like I kind of like pick bits and pieces of different different passages or different sections of the book that that kind of capture my intention. You know, it's been it's been a long time since I've read one book through completely.

1:05:02 Speaker 2: I just go by whatever captures my attention, and and so yeah, I had a little bit of of an epiphany, not not too much, but as I absorbed the material, everything makes sense in terms of Valerous his his science and engineering log of

1:05:26 Speaker 2: manipulation of of time space fabric and how that that plays into creating gravitational fields. So so I guess I guess it's well's it's gonna it's gonna be kind of a long answer. It's it's not really a it's not really like a one sentence thing. So if you're ready, I can kind of tell you what my understanding is. Okay, So, so time space fabric something that actually everybody under uh everybody experiences, but not everyone out there can understand a lot of people may not be aware that our cell phones, also known as our smartphones, our iPhones, are androids, even a flip phone whatever.

1:06:11 Speaker 2: They operate most of the time one way or another through communication satellites orbiting the Earth, and then things go through cell towers, et cetera. So the time and a synchronization of it comes with respect to to satellite synchronization and telecommunication of communication weaves. I'll just keep that in a general Bland term. So, these satellites actually in geosynchronous orbit are further away from the Earth's center of gravity. So in other words, they're orbiting the Earth because they're they're pulled in gravitational field and so forth, and there's other reasons while they're orbiting.

1:07:01 Speaker 2: But in any case, in outer space or called geosynchronous orbit, time space fabric is let's say, let's just say it's it's a certain picture of horizontal vertical line. So it's like a it's like a grid thing. And as you get closer and closer to the Earth or to anything, the sun or whatever, you have a massive object and time space fabric gets warped or distorted the exactly. And that's due to the huge amount of mass and a small and a small space. And so here we are on the planet, and so time actually moves a little bit slower, and the reason is that the center of gravity has stretched out time space fabric.

1:07:59 Speaker 2: So now the words something that say, for example, you go from point A to point B, and I don't know, it's it's this long and out of space. Well just as a as a you know, really simple example. Imagine this thing being horizontally stretched twice as long on the planet. So to sync it up when your phone gets the signal, your phone, you know, because it's all software honestly running on hardware, your phone compensates for that so that you have the accurate time and so that you're let's say synchronized, or that you're operating in real time with respect to the satellites.

1:08:37 Speaker 2: So I tried to make that in layman's language. But the bottom line is when you when you look around or when you're looking at out of space or whatever, you think three dimensions, right, But actually there's at least a fourth dimension, which is time.

1:08:54 Speaker 1: I would agree, And.

1:08:55 Speaker 2: That's why I like, for example, you know, astronomers or whatever, we talk in terms of life years, the amount of time it takes for later travel in one year, the distance amount of time, and.

1:09:10 Speaker 1: Which has to be a constant in order to I mean, it has to be a constant and something we agree upon.

1:09:21 Speaker 2: So the distance I should say it travels, uh uh, you know in time over of course one year, and yeah, it has to agreed upon constant.

1:09:29 Speaker 1: It's agreed as an agreed upon constant, so that the math works and checks out, you know. So it's funny to me because I mean, I'm not going to go down that rabbital actually, but it's it's I see what you're saying. So what does that mean for UFOs.

1:09:52 Speaker 2: A sec here? So now that we understand a little bit about out how time space fabric is basically distorted and stretched or warped, and and you made an imaginary well, here's the planet Earth and around it, it's kind of going like that, and there's other theories about as a result. That's that's part of the reason for orbiting, not just not gravitational force per se, but because there's a certain amount of warpage. And so you know, astronomical bodies are kind of almost like if you can picture a marble going around something.

1:10:29 Speaker 2: I don't really understand that much about it. That's that's all my air of expertise, but I do know that that comes into into play. But anyway, so now that we understand how time space fabric gets warped, the next question is how does that relate to your foes. Well, if you can imagine, and again you know I did. I did learn this from from lou But if if you can imagine, you know, I saw this in his interviews, it's even easier than writing. It's great. Uh So, what if what if this was time space fabric hare and you had a ship or craft that wanted to travel from point A to point B and it had to go oh this distance here.

1:11:09 Speaker 2: But what if somehow you had the ability to put an enormous mass right there pinpoint, almost like a black hole, so that it's distorting time space fabric like that and now the ships a point b like this a short amount of time as opposed to longer amount of time.

1:11:30 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, so well that's interesting, but that would mean you have the amount of energy you would need to create a massive black hole, is.

1:11:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is one of my theories about and again it's only it's actually it's an apothesis. It's not even a theory, it's a hypothesis shot on a dark hypothesis. But you know why if these things are truly hanging out near nuclear facilities, why, well, there's a massive amount of energy that something advanced could absorb, and you know, maybe they're using.

1:11:59 Speaker 1: It for fuel sources or whatever. Because it's like you said, it's that's it's it's like exactly one. And honestly, it it makes sense that they would be hanging around there for multiple reasons, one of them being yours mine. Another one being that if if there was a site of the apocalypse, if there is going to be an apocalypse, that's most likely the place that's going to be ground zero, right like our nuclear facilities. That's what's going to end the world if it does. If it were to end, the most likely cause would be nuclear war idiots, human beings making that decision, and those would be the places where you would need to a send messages to the people inside to alter history.

1:12:58 Speaker 1: So what if they're future humans coming back in time to alter of catastrophic ending? Right? What if that I keep coughing on, my god, but what if these what if that's why we're seeing them in in in in our nuclear facilities and what you know, what if they're influencing the people in them for a reason because it changes time and whatever happened in the future to ruin whatever you know, ruin the planet or in the world as as we knew it.

1:13:33 Speaker 2: And that's that's as valid as as any as as any theory on on on the on the time space fabric distortion. So these things, you know, could be traversing time space and coming back from the future or any any point in time. The only component left to understand. And it's actually it's interesting because it's cleverly written and the lyriuses work well. But there's a lot of components to understand this craft, which is why he breaks up to I want to say, like twenty works, uh two ninety pages according to Gene And yeah, because I always forget, but I think I memorize it.

1:14:16 Speaker 2: Now another well, another'll say key component, so you understand how to warp time space fabric to traverse great distances. So the other key component is, well, how do you do it? How do you get a humongous mass in a teeny tiny you know, point of a pen or point of a pinhead or infinitesimally small point. And according to Lyrius's work, uh, there's there's well actually a bunch of key components. But one of the major key components is he refers to as a solenoid. It's a general it's more generalized than that, but anyways, it's a it's a coil of for for human purposes or let's say, less complicated beings like I'll sign a whole planet that we know of.

1:15:06 Speaker 2: It's just wire wind around and which is like, you know, an electromagnet, and yeah, so that's referred.

1:15:13 Speaker 1: To as a tesla coil almost.

1:15:16 Speaker 2: You can compare it to something like that. It's a it's a coil wire. And so when you have electricity flowing through it this way, we're going to demonstrate the right hand rule. Electrons flowing through this way, then perpendicular to it, which is my thumb electrical engineering right hand rule. You have a magnetic feel, yes, and then perpendicular to these things you have, you have a cross product that's an electrical engineering term of something known as a Lorentz force. I believe the Heinrich or somebody or other, BUTLRI and Tz force.

1:15:56 Speaker 2: So those three things acting together, which come out with a lot of logic reasoning, heck of a lot of electrical engineering equations, some chemistry, some quantum physics. On that book which is free by the way, on on Engineering affinitybook dot com, which I think is a great.

1:16:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worth a download and a look. Yeah, because it's essentially for people because we've referenced it a lot. It's a basically it's the first like it's either it's either an official work of a scientist from the Soviet Union who was in some sort of program like Lazarre, or he had access like Lazarre and he was documenting it on his own time. Either way, he was involved in some sort of program that dealt with UFOs, because there's no way he would be just you know, grabbing this stuff from the ether.

1:16:53 Speaker 1: So it's definitely I have a poster of it you can't see, but like the work in it is so detailed that it's like this guy's either this guy's either one of those people like Eric Davis who has a photographic memory and he's going into the program every day and then coming out of the program and just writing down everything he remembers, or he's it's a little bit more open and he can bring a journal in and he's working on it like that. But then the fall of the Soviet Union happens, so there's no oversight, and he wants to protect the information like a patriot would, so he keeps it to himself, right, because there's you can't trust anyone that Soviet Union has now fallen, you know, you're you're so you know a guy like that who's very patriotic, Right, he's going to be like, I'm going to protect this at all costs because this is one of the state secrets, right, So I'm not going to give it to just anybody that's gonna die with me if it needs to, right, And that's what happened, or that's how it's supposed to happen to happen.

1:17:57 Speaker 1: So that baffles me, and it's else so I don't. I don't really even think it's I mean, it'd be nice to know which which it was, but I don't think it's super relevant because it just for me, it shows that there was some sort of Soviet Soviet program similar to what was happening in the United States.

1:18:17 Speaker 2: During the same time, during the.

1:18:19 Speaker 1: Same time Cold War, when both countries are seeing this uptick in UFOs at nuclear facilities. What the fuck is going on?

1:18:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that whole and like you said, the whole effort about manipulating gravity, and then it went silent soon after.

1:18:37 Speaker 1: You ever heard of Tea Townsend Brown, so.

1:18:40 Speaker 2: Migneto hydrodynamic propulsion, which but yeah, he was, he was doing that work in the fifties. Valarius's work came on after that. I want to say it was like in a early eighties. I'm not sure if he a few references and uh and and is working out, but it's it's definitely it definitely takes into account things that Brown.

1:19:10 Speaker 1: Well, I think that elements. I think just just like the FBI raided Tesla's they raided the New Yorker when Tesla died, and they took some of his.

1:19:23 Speaker 2: Work, spent the rest of his life in a hotel.

1:19:26 Speaker 1: Yes, essentially, right, And that's what's mainstream science will do to genius. They'll isolate it because they couldn't because JP. Morgan Chase couldn't put a meter on it like you could could with Thomas Jefferson's I'm sorry, not Thomas Jefferson. Was it Edison? So Edison's work was all wired and you could put that's you know, why are we still using that technology? By the way, right, Tesla was far.

1:19:56 Speaker 2: More danced exactly. It was about money and greed and and what they could control over so that they could.

1:20:01 Speaker 1: Well, they could put a meter on I'm still sending numbers of my meter to people to National Grid and having them charge me for electricity. When Tesla proved that he could pull it from the ether, pull it from space time itself, and then it's all around us and we could power the world. And they took that power. Yeah, so they take that, right, the FBI raids this hotel takes that. Then then T Townsend Brown's work goes dark in the fifties after they talk about the g Engines coming. So I think the government or the deep state slowly but surely took over and they had the keys to the kingdom, right, it's they had the anti gravity, they had the scientists working on it in the fifties.

1:20:56 Speaker 1: All you have to do is classify it. So I think they classified the whole area of physics. And that's like classifying snails. It's like classifying reality.

1:21:07 Speaker 2: That's crazy, right, right. So so there's a lot.

1:21:09 Speaker 1: Of like strength theory. I think it's a huge waste of time.

1:21:14 Speaker 2: You know, you're get touched on a valid point, and a lot of.

1:21:18 Speaker 1: I think it was a misdirect.

1:21:20 Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of the UFO U a P community, you know, is in an uproar in that they feel that humanity has been held down, yes, and and we've had the lack of progress. You know, this is this is one common belief. There's been a lack of progress for humanity and all sorts of technologies for this reason. And some some major influencers or some major say knowledgeable people in the field will say that's what's going on. And then you know, other people say, well, we have it, but it's all been concentrated towards developing you know, better weapons.

1:22:00 Speaker 2: Is against our adversary, you know, which is which is what I like about the way, you know, Jean Sticko took his book and it's it's on the website. Just just flip flip through the pages. It's right there. And so to me, that's a huge contribution to society. So that's so my, you know, my The irony that I like to keep repeating over and over is, Okay, the US and the Soviet Union, we're adversaries, right, and so one way or another because Larus, you know, in his final days, you know, he had a lot of time and energy invested in this work.

1:22:43 Speaker 2: The Soviet Union collapsed, and you know, he had a beloved grandson, son of of Italian and Gene Sticico, and so he's like, okay, well, you know, since since aj his grandson is interested in aeronautical engine airing or whatnot, why don't I just send it to them because he's interested, you know, according to discussions that that Gene and I had. So from that perspective, you could say an adversary to the US spilled the beans on UFO technology, you could you could say, you know, so I like alluding to that now was that it wasn't his intention.

1:23:31 Speaker 2: It's just he wanted something to be done with his work because you know, as as you just said, you know, he held on to it because he didn't know who to trust, so union collapse, et cetera. And the guy's like, oh and so you know, so Jane and then Nattia looked at it, translated it and worked with the colleague Mario, and and I published it. And I think Jane told me November of twenty or you know, so last year, and uh, and now you know, it's like if you want to have a bound copy and you know, you know the bound copy is great, then then go for it.

1:24:10 Speaker 2: And until then, you know, you just thumb through it online.

1:24:14 Speaker 1: But it's pretty amazing, and it's but it's like you said, it's it's actually Soviet Union. A Soviet scientist.

1:24:24 Speaker 2: Leaked, not leaked Soviet Union. Yeah, right, So then it became he was in Kazakhstan. So I guess you would say a close ally of Russia's and that gets into the whole thing behind you know, why there were patents and and things like that, you know, and right, but but the point is, let's say a close ally of Russia's that was formerly part of the USSR Soviet Union had this material and you know, with highly good intentions, hold on to it for because I'm a loyalist party member. And then guy at that point is like, well, to Jesus, I'm about ready to die on unfortunately medical reasons.

1:25:10 Speaker 2: Well why does my grandson have it? So no, no mal intent, but by definition, right, by definition, you know, and I ran it by by Tim Phillips, former Deputy Director Varro I said how would that be viewed? And that was actually jeans question that it was how would that be viewed by the intelligence community? And and Tim say, well, by definition. You know, he's a great person, brilliant guy, and for God's sakes, I feel that he he he's benefited humankind. I mean, I'm growing from it. A lot of other people reading this now, and hopefully our technology can progress.

1:25:45 Speaker 2: So he's a he's a hero. But the act of what he did, by definition according to the intelligence community, yes, yes, bye bye, by what he did right, But on the other hand, you know, it's like, who the fuck was he got? I mean, obviously you can't see if you do that, you should expect consequences. The guy, unfortunately was passing away, and it's like, who the fuck was going to take over this work? Because it sounds like sounds like no.

1:26:12 Speaker 1: One right, right right, because people thought he was crazy people, you know, and it's this whole thing. So and I like, I said, the And then you get you start getting into it and you realize that you start realizing the implications. And the implications are that at the same time Lazaar is seeing his craft and what the sports model meet the same at that same time, or maybe a little bit before hmm, Valarious is also seeing the same kind of craft. So both countries seem to have access to it. So how were they getting it?

1:26:59 Speaker 1: Were the were they finding these things? Are they gifts or they crash retrievals? Like are these things crashing? Where are we getting them from?

1:27:07 Speaker 2: Do you think if I remember correctly, I mean I saw I watched the Bob Azar did you You must have seen his his own self released video documentary from the eighties, and he and at the end he goes, well, was all that true? Well if I mysteriously disappear after this, then you know it was remember that freaking stroke and genius, Bob. I gotta give you a thumbs up on that one, because I guess they're like, oh well, I guess we'll just leave it. That must have been you know, that that was a stroke of genius to save his life.

1:27:40 Speaker 2: But you know, I think he said that it was believed to be retrieved from from a crash site. Yeah,

1:27:52 Speaker 2: you know what Bob said, I remember now I can't remember if he said it was retrieved from from a crash site. Other accounts talk about similar technology and reverse engineering based on crash retrivials, But Bob did say that he saw another document. You probably know what I'm going to start talking about, with beings from the Binary Star Systems later articulate and there was supposedly working with with the US government on understanding this technology, and so some of that technology that was being reverse engineered and studied was was provided by by those beings.

1:28:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, sor right, okay.

1:28:50 Speaker 2: You know, there's there's so much there's so much stuff here, like sometimes it becomes a little of a blur to remember who said what or there's like so much Yeah, oh I love it too. It's like like in the nowadays too, trying to trying to keep up with all that stuff. It's you know, that's what happened. The battery went, Yeah,

1:29:17 Speaker 2: I'm buying uh tomorrow the other one.

1:29:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, do you think do you think that there's a possibility that humans are in contact with a non human like like some sort.

1:29:45 Speaker 1: Of deep state or whatever, and are we in contact with an nh I and potentially have made an agreement. Do you think there's any possibility that that's true.

1:29:59 Speaker 2: I think it's and the thing, the thing, that thing that could drive anybody uh crazy about trying to trying to decide one way or another is you know the experiencers or the witnesses, and and you know, there are great number of them have have come out and stated that that were absolutely in collaboration with them. You know, some of the really big names out there have stated that.

1:30:29 Speaker 1: You know, Eisenhower's like niece Laura Eisenhower, she swears that were in agreement, made an agreement with non human intelligence. That Eisenhower was the one who made the agreement with them, and that's why he warned us about the military industrial complex. Was like a way to like try to warn people about the whole thing. Right, So, I mean, but then there's and and you kind of like totally want to discount it, but then high issued.

1:31:02 Speaker 2: Head in the hole, like like an Ostrich or something.

1:31:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, and pretend it's not real. Yeah right right right? Uh but but then but you know, you think it's all totally nuts and bananas and just because you're an eyes andhow doesn't make you an authority on anything, right, Like people have crazy people in their family all the time, Like it happens when they try to capitalize on people. It happens all the time. But then guys like high Meshed, who was like the equivalent of the Chief of NASA but for the Israeli Space Defense, he comes out and says that there's the Galactic Federation and that Trump knows about it and that we're working with them, so that like that guy is the equivalent of the the Chief of NASA or Israel on his deathbed, he says there's a galactic Federation.

1:31:57 Speaker 1: So then you're like, wait, what, like cause you got this high ranking individual And then Grush comes out and he says when asked about if there was any agreements, he said, it is possible. And so what do you think about the things Grushed and about all these highly highly placed individuals saying that we that there is a non human intelligence on this earth and actively engaging with us. Is that a little too far out there?

1:32:30 Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, no, it's not far out there at all. I mean, I mean, I you know, I think it's I think it's likely. You know, I hate to say, I hate to say fifty to fifty, But do you remember the astronauts story Muskgrave? No, yeah, tell me very very well known and highly respected Space Shuttle astronaut when our Space Shuttle program was active.

1:32:57 Speaker 1: Interesting, I just I have a and who's the chief of Aerospace Medicine for NASA who has shown a video of a sport model flying saucer, chief aerospace chief of Aerospace Medicine for NASA and the chief chief light surgeon. So it's a whole different thing.

1:33:23 Speaker 2: But continue, Yeah, yeah, I mean so so it goes to show you that these these things and and NASA are are discussed and and it's it is bizarre how there's there's a lot of well, let's just say there's a lot of disunity in a uh, in a community. You know. I'm definitely not one that was If something was an obvious hoax and it was well documented, I would say, well, based on evidence and based on you know, cite different sources, this was a hoax or other otherwise, you know, it's you know, nobody's nobody's got the right to say, well someone someone's a liar, because well, if something's been proven, that's that's a different story.

1:34:04 Speaker 2: And we do have cases like that when we come comes to uh, you know, witnesses in NASA or or astronauts in NASA and so forth, I I'd say they're highly credible. You know, all sorts of medically uned psychological tests that they have to go through. And generally speaking, I would not suspect NASA astronauts to be any kind of psychological operations or disinformation people at all. I wouldn't suspect that. So I would say based on on that, I would say that's it's highly credible. I did follow this, uh a lot of documentation and and reports by this story, Musgrave.

1:34:47 Speaker 1: And so what is that?

1:34:50 Speaker 2: So that this used to be when the Boston Globe used to be really big in the newspaper. Yeah, okay, he was in there a lot, and now you know, just Boston dot com. And I'm sure that Boston Globe is still good. But you know, I don't look at printed newspapers out much. One time I did, it's another story. But everything was actually online and stuff I was looking for wasn't even in a printed that's that was a different paper, not not Boston anyway. So the short of it is he was talking for decades about craft and beings like I think, I want to say plasmoid, so I'm not one hundred percent or plasmas and craft that he had observed outside of of Earth in other words, in orbit during his missions.

1:35:37 Speaker 2: And he's not the only astronaut.

1:35:40 Speaker 1: He's far from the only astronaut. Edgar Mitchell, well edgar Mitchell had like a life changing experience. But like I mean, if you even look at Lance Armstrong, not Lance, oh my god, Neil Armstrong and Buzz different Armstrong. But if you buzz Aldrin Buzz. But if you watch their the interview when they came home, it looks like a hostage video. They they don't know what to say. It doesn't look like the heroes that just came home. They're like they're defeated, like they saw a ghost. You've never ever seen it.

1:36:28 Speaker 1: The interview from when they first came back.

1:36:31 Speaker 2: Watched these guys, I've heard these guys are supposed to be I've heard other things like their hair and they're.

1:36:37 Speaker 1: On Santa referencing Santa Claus and so and yeah.

1:36:41 Speaker 2: And and talking about you know, I've heard.

1:36:44 Speaker 1: My contact at NASA said that they were seeing things, they were being observed and they came across things on the moon that and and what's your take on that. It's hard to doubt that.

1:37:02 Speaker 2: I hate to say, because like, until you until you see stuff, right, like until you privy to that information, it's kind of like you hate to be like a yes man, you know it was I want to believe it, right, and I so much love to believe it. But so that that's that's one of the good things about uh being a move on field investigator. You could be a UFO U a P advocate because you just dig this stuff. You love it. But you you look at the facts and so something like this, right, if you had witness testimony by by.

1:37:37 Speaker 1: Astronauts, it's a highly credible witness.

1:37:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, the end report. If if you had, if you had, if you had let's say, video clips and audio clips, and it was like all it was all like, wow, it certainly looks like an alien. You'd you'd get it to the point or you know, non human you'd get it to the point of, you know, depending on the right people, because events something like that would go up the chain within move On, you know, worldwide, but you would get it to the point of either you know unknown or well, I mean, you know, it could go you know, hoax.

1:38:13 Speaker 2: But like something like this, let's say it looked legit, it would be the point of either unknown in the cases is open or it can be reopened at any time, or it could be something like inconclusive. But if it gets to the point where, like the field investigator actually sees something with let's say lab results or something where the move On field investigator or the overarching move On folks had said, Okay, yeah, we've we've verified something. I think I think that'll be a breakthrough, and I they're supposed to have something at the upcoming conference in July.

1:38:57 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's it's kind of weird when you think about it, because like, the best cases at mouf On or any one are the ones that you end up not having an answer for. So it's kind of redundant, right, is right? The best ones are the unknowns, but the ones you can explain are the ones we throw away. So it's like.

1:39:19 Speaker 2: And by the way. Yeah, so so Tim Phillips did mention.

1:39:25 Speaker 1: So you've been in touch with Tim Phillips, the former deputy director of Arrow. So he said some things. He said some things. So what do you take of this, because I don't. I don't buy it for one fucking second.

1:39:46 Speaker 2: I mean, he touches on a lot of things.

1:39:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. Not so this idea that the Washington Street the Wall Street Journal ran with that it's all just a giant hazing program by the Air Force. So that one I want to ask you about, Right, that's a bunch of bullshit, man.

1:40:03 Speaker 2: So I read that article completely. Yeah, that's the one I was talking about. And I'm not trying to disparage the Wall Street Journal at all.

1:40:10 Speaker 1: I am.

1:40:10 Speaker 2: I got to tell you. So I graduated classes. I am eighty nine from from PbD mass Uh High and back then the Wall Street Journal was amazing and it was thick and all that stuff. So now I make my way revered. I'm like, what do I doing. I can't get my hands on. Maybe someone knows. I'm like, of course, go to the line, like when's the last time that so many people have gone to the library. Except if you're an investigative reporter.

1:40:37 Speaker 1: I will say, I've been to the library very recently.

1:40:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, because noe like someone like you. Yeah, but like for the average person, well, you know, if you can't find on Google, if there's a charge. So I went to my library. I look in that issue of Wall Street Journal. Not there. I looked in the day after that wasn't in there. I'm like, what the heck. So I go to the librarian and I'm you know, a new member and stuff, and oh, yeah, sir, yeah, well most of the Wall Street Journal is online nowadays. And since you remember, we do provide that to our to our library members.

1:41:09 Speaker 2: So it's great. So sure enough, you know, so the so he read it? Yeah, and I so I read it, you know, library remember or whatever is I read that complete article. And you know, I you know, Tim Phillips had been asked in reference to that article, and it was certainly knowledgeable of it. But I don't know whether or not he was the sole source of that because no, no, no, no, it had Kirkpatrick. But I'm sure he was. You must have been involved because everybody was asking him questions about it.

1:41:40 Speaker 1: He was involved, Yeah, he was involved to a degree, because I think they I think they quoted him once or something. But it had doctor Kirkpatrick written all over it, okay, and Susan Goff like it had it had their fingerprints all over it.

1:41:56 Speaker 2: Okay.

1:41:57 Speaker 1: That's that was one hundred percent the source. And I I was there at contacting the desert when that guy, the Wall Street Journal guy was getting quotes from like, uh other people that that were there. And apparently it was advertised as like they weren't it was they weren't going to be doing like a hit piece. It was gonna be this like revelatory article. And then it came out as like, oh, all of it can be explained by a hazing ritual that the Air Force ran against people in.

1:42:32 Speaker 2: Yeah.

1:42:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like some hazing ritual by the Air Force to new recruits in black programs like it just it made that could that could explain a little bit, maybe a couple percent, it could. But to say that's a blanket statement for everything being bullshit, that that insults people's intelligence. It's people like me who have seen things. So when the Wall Street Journal does that, you start asking to yourself, this is why the main stream media.

1:43:00 Speaker 2: Is falling apart.

1:43:02 Speaker 1: This is why no one takes them seriously anymore because it's all this like bullshit, got youa take you out of context journalism and that it's it's it's sad, it really is. But that's how like the mainstream science community is. That's the mainstream archaeology, mainstream astronomy, like it's it's there's the it's like these clubs, like we love to put ourselves in these clubs and like, oh, I have the information and uh, you know if anything that doesn't go with the narrative like you're a pseudo scientist, Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there, Grand Hancock.

1:43:40 Speaker 2: Which is which goes back to my thing about you know, you know, you said, well, what's it like to uh be in mainstream uh science, technology on Jerry math Stone and to say, okay, well I'm with move on now. And the answer is, you know, half of my colleagues, especially the ones that know me quite well, like, oh that's cool, what's interesting. And I'm like, all I'm saying is there's something to it. And by the way, in the other half, you know, they give you funny looks, which is whatever. But I get to tell you something, there is something to it because and you know this you know this is this is going to be rhetorical.

1:44:13 Speaker 2: But you know about the Drawing incursion, there was something to it, wasn't there. Right, turned out to be a good amount of them were freaking communist Chinese Party spy drones. Yeah right, And and I was when I attended Lose symposium in March, and I think it was March fifteen. But anyway, in Boston, he always adds dynamic new events or affairs in his presentations, and no one was about the drones. And he's so, you know, he was he was being facetious. He's like, so, nope, nothing to see here, folks, We're moving on.

1:44:50 Speaker 2: And he's like, you are being lied to. Now. He was correct, although I think the purpose was at the time, I think the purpose was don't let uh enemy or adversary know that we're onto them. You know, we'll we'll tell people at the right time that.

1:45:05 Speaker 1: The yeah, the old you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies, right. But Ross Coulthard actually just came out and when he said the same when he said the thing about the tic Tac being owned by owned and operated by Lockheed and all those craft all the tic TAC shape craft being a Lockheed thing. He also said that his sources, he was almost certain that the New Jersey drone situation was a show of power from the Chinese government, that they could put drones up, like highly advanced drones up over our our our our most sensitive facilities, and that there was nothing we could do about it.

1:45:52 Speaker 1: And some weird stuff happened, maybe some maybe some UAPs were seen, but most of it was Chinese drones and then our own military drones being put up as counter intel measures. But like the Chinese ones were like they were super advanced.

1:46:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you research drones. He didn't say what kind of research did he right?

1:46:15 Speaker 1: Right, But usually they're quick to label like, oh, it's a Chinese Fi balloon, right, because they want people to know that China is spying on us. But what they don't want people to know is that China is spying on us, but with highly advanced drones, drones that we can't understand how they work.

1:46:34 Speaker 2: Right, And it's against their it's not against the people, it's against them.

1:46:41 Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah.

1:46:43 Speaker 2: But my comment on that is the best that Communist Party is good at is stealing technology. That's the greatest. They didn't they didn't create it. They stole from.

1:46:57 Speaker 1: And and you know what's funny, We're in Massachusetts where most of the Chinese spies come because they get educated at Harvard m i T. They get educated in our best places because the CCP pays them, pays their way into these school visa and they get school of visas and they go learn at Harvard, m i T. All the best schools, and then they bring the knowledge back to the CCP. And and it's it's we just let them do it. We do it. And it's crazy to me. And and I'm not trying to be like racist or anything.

1:47:34 Speaker 1: You go into Boston, go to Boston, go to any city that has a prestigious school, and there's going to be a large Chinese population. It's it's that's the way it is. But so so you're a move on field investigator, and I wanted to touch on this earlier, but I got off track. Tell me about it, what me about as we round out, Tell me about a case that stuck with you, something that maybe you you you didn't resolve, And tell me about the best case you've investigated.

1:48:13 Speaker 2: The best case, because we live in a.

1:48:15 Speaker 1: Pretty pretty amazing area, not we're not. It's not we're not southern California from you know, but we're we're very historied, storied area without naming names.

1:48:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, without without freaking any Yeah. Well, it's it's always nice when you can, when you can solve the case, and and you had a full explanation and and you you have an understanding of of of what was up and so far and so forth.

1:48:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, but people don't want that.

1:48:53 Speaker 2: I'll quote a Ross Coulthard and I'll say, you know, when this testimonials and these you as and UFOs, a lot of skeptics will say, well, that's no good. You need evidence, and and Ross's one of Ross's episodes he said, well, entire court cases are based on people's.

1:49:13 Speaker 1: Test beyond a reasonable doubt.

1:49:15 Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, so witnesses. Witnesses are evidence and contain evidence.

1:49:21 Speaker 1: And you know what's crazy to me is the same people who say ghosts and like UFOs aren't real, ask them what consciousness is and they like, and you're like, all right, get away from me, get away from me. You don't know ship, so get away from me, right,

1:49:46 Speaker 1: And and it pisses me off because that, you know, like it's it's the same people who believe in God, in Jesus and how we walked on water healed people. They'll tell you don't exist. You're like, what are you out of your mind? Like you, you're so steadfast in your religion and belief in like this higher power you've never met, you've.

1:50:09 Speaker 2: Never seen around they have said, have said, have said that we're to we would be too selfish for now.

1:50:20 Speaker 1: Yes, but in what is an angel? But by definition a non human intelligence. By definition, an angel or a demon is a non human intelligence. So like, the thing is that we shouldn't be battling each other. We should be like and we should be embracing each other and embracing the the the because here's the here's the problem. Science tends to throw out religion. They throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, But religion does the same thing. They throw the baby out with the bathwater. When it comes to like anything that science tries to disprove with religion, they just say, no, it's it's because And then they're saying the same thing.

1:51:03 Speaker 1: Right. Most of the time, science and religion are saying the same thing. The Big Bang and God said let there be light, Well, sounds like the same thing to me, just in two different contexts. Right, God said, let there be light. Out of nothing came everything. The big bang boom out of nothing came everything. It's the same thing. So like we need to we need to work together, and and instead we we like to divide ourselves. It's the story of the tower Babbel. But so tell me about a case that you've investigated that that or just walk me through what it's like to investigate a case.

1:51:46 Speaker 1: I'll tell you one of the most then we can wrap up.

1:51:50 Speaker 2: Okay, one of the most fascinating ones was actually an URB encounter, and that that witness was extremely helpful and an extremely interactive and and they showed me the entire sight of where it occurred and pointed out different uh different objects and different different lights that had that had lit up when when this ORB was in the area. Extremely incredible witness.

1:52:28 Speaker 1: So the ORB showed up and then lights were turning on.

1:52:33 Speaker 2: There was one light in particular like street lights or just a backyard.

1:52:39 Speaker 1: But like lights lights, not like lights in the sky, like like human lights were flickering on.

1:52:49 Speaker 2: Let's say, like a garden light type of thing.

1:52:52 Speaker 1: Okay, so the ORB gets seen and yeah.

1:52:55 Speaker 2: And then the other thing too, is there was a a feeling of which is touched on a lot in uphology, which is a feeling of awareness, and it's also touched on, you know, mental telepathy.

1:53:11 Speaker 1: And no way.

1:53:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, when you meditate, depending on which type of meditation I've experienced myself to most people have, depending on how you meditate, you can actually feel an energy flow through your body.

1:53:24 Speaker 1: And yeah, I felt that on DMO, so that I felt that in d M T too.

1:53:30 Speaker 2: Okay, So, so there was a feeling a sense of energy and sense of calmness and and what that's good. You hit that one on a on a on ahead of the nail, and also a feeling of of some sort of mental telepathy. And what I liked, what I enjoyed the most about this case is you know, all all experiences and witnesses have always been helpful and cooperate because they want to resolve it. That's you know what they're they're alling over like Jesu, I really and as a field investigator, you're not supposed to become personally attached to the witness because otherwise you're not going to do good jobs.

1:54:16 Speaker 2: I kept a very open mind, but I could, I could really empathize with with this person that that that file the report because it was really bugging them and they needed closure on it to know, you know, what the heck was going. And it wasn't it wasn't a harmful or it was more like just the orb was there type of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so the you know, the individual was just maulling over trying to trying to absorb it and and understand it better. And it was it was a very very moving case, and it was a very enthralling case because I was provided with maps, diagrams, pictures, videos.

1:54:54 Speaker 2: Now the video was like after after the fact that showed me you know, this took place here. I was given distances, so I was able to perform all sorts of astronomical and aeronautical calculations to see what could have been a plane with a light, could have been headlights anything.

1:55:11 Speaker 1: Did you find anything that it could.

1:55:12 Speaker 2: Have been as an alternative?

1:55:16 Speaker 1: No, So so what he saw was genuine what it was something out of the ordinary, Oh.

1:55:24 Speaker 2: Totally totally interesting, highly credible witness and you know, and so you know, so something like that, it's it's closed. But the nice thing about a moof on case is as information is provided, whether it's by the witness or someone else, the case could be reopened at anything.

1:55:42 Speaker 1: Right because you know, in connection to or you know, So, what did the witness if this, if it's okay to share, did the witness say that they got because maybe they if there was a telepathic connection, did they receive any information?

1:56:04 Speaker 2: Believe, I believe. I believe it was more like a sense of calmness and and a sense of it's okay to be calm, there's nothing to worry about, you.

1:56:18 Speaker 1: Know, I've heard I've heard similar and I'm.

1:56:21 Speaker 2: Very vague in general, just to protect their their privacy, but but that, for sure, I could, I could tell you was one of the insurance that assurances that the witness got, which is always a good thing because the last thing you want is to get freaked out by anything.

1:56:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I understand.

1:56:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's not even if you're used to these things, you know, you know it's you know.

1:56:43 Speaker 1: You don't want to broad some people don't want to broadcast right that that it was them, but they want to report it.

1:56:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in the sense of you know, the person experiencing it, you know, to have to have some reassurance that there was no harm intended or whatever. Is is a good thing because you know, someone who you know goes through an experience. And I've I've had my own experience, but not not like that. But I have had experiences to know that it was not a harmful thing. It was either let's say, a natural thing or even a good thing. Sometimes is nice. It doesn't always have to be a negative, you know, creep you out type of experience.

1:57:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's more people need to know. That is more often than not, these encounters, they're not negative. I would say more often than not, they're pretty positive. And they change people's lives and perspectives and it almost like it almost seems like the event is tailored for them. Have you ever got that feeling?

1:57:44 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I've had it.

1:57:45 Speaker 1: Because I've when I saw what I saw both times, I thought, I it's almost like I knew that it was for me and for me only to see.

1:57:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a reason for that.

1:57:55 Speaker 1: And yeah, and I think it sets you on a certain path and we all find ourselves here, you know, because your path laid you to that seat right now, My path laid me to this seat right now, all because of a signing when I was eleven, right, And I find that to be crazy. Is Massachusetts? How many reports do you take a year?

1:58:22 Speaker 2: You think I'd have to go back and look, but I can roughly, well, I guess we could if we did an estimate. Let's see, I got three, let's see three six seven times. See, each investigator gets probably maybe approximately thirty cases per year. Approximately, pretty I just did a quick quick average.

1:58:56 Speaker 1: It's pretty high though. Yeah, so it's an active area. Yeah, yeah, I think I know so because I've seen. I mean, and there's so much you know, you got to think those are the cases that are reported. There's so many more that go unreported, that's right. I'd say, you know, one hundred percent, maybe a thousand percent more don't don't get reported.

1:59:21 Speaker 2: And that's yeah, for all sorts of reasons.

1:59:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, people don't know where to. Most people don't know what move on is. That's the general person.

1:59:29 Speaker 2: I got to tell you before, before I joined, I didn't know what it is. And I was like, I'm watching all these youtubes yeah, and interviews, and.

1:59:38 Speaker 1: Then you see references and then you come up.

1:59:41 Speaker 2: Well, what happened was I was like, geez, but I want to do more I and so I started email people how do I get involved? And I was like, yeah, I don't even heard of Buffon, but not really. So I just did a Google and I go, I go UFO UAP Advocate and Participation Club or something, and then like of all the group, you know, move I'm like, oh, I heard of that. And I looked at him like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. A lot of people don't know about it.

2:00:09 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's it's sad because I think that I think that move on's doing itself a disservice. And I know you can't speak on this, but move On's doing itself a disservice by not having more of a social media presence in the sense of like getting to TikTok, you know, and adapting for the times and having more of a presence. One of my mentors was Earl Gray Anderson, and he just passed away. You know, he was the head of South South Southern California move On and he was one of my best friends in this field.

2:00:47 Speaker 1: And you know,

2:00:51 Speaker 1: he gave everything to move.

2:00:53 Speaker 2: On, and uh yeah, a lot of people.

2:00:56 Speaker 1: He gave everything to move On too. Much too much. But I think we need to realize that that move on. They need to adapt at the times and they need to get get on TikTok show people that you know, when you see these things, guys, take twenty set twenty minutes and report it to move on. Have them just even for database database purposes, they need to be make it more aware because you know, it's not the world isn't the way it used to be, right, It's not, and you need to adapt as the times, and you need to to have more of a social media presence to garner attention in the world that we live in.

2:01:44 Speaker 1: And move on is in my opinion, not doing enough.

2:01:48 Speaker 2: And is when you I mean you have to do a bang search or whatever for ban or whatever whatever you got there? Yeah Google, Well, I mean besides Google, I'm trying to think about whatever Duc dut go, duc dout Yeah yeah, yeah, just.

2:02:08 Speaker 3: Basically I'm trying to give other Firefox.

2:02:11 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So do it do an Internet search for move on, report filing or something, and then a couple of button clicks later your final report. You can give as much information about yourself in the incident as you want or as little, or you could give everything and leave out your name. They don't care. They just want they want the report.

2:02:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

2:02:31 Speaker 2: And so you don't even have to give your name or even your first initial. They don't care. They'll let you file it.

2:02:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the thing is so so I think they just need more awareness and they need to like because they still have like the newsletter and stuff like that. And it's like that worked in the eighties and nineties and maybe even the early odds odds the two thousands, but that's not how that's not how it worked anymore. Like you need to have a presence online. You need to like be advertising in a way, like, hey, if you see something odd, come tell us, come report it to us. You know, we're not gonna stigmatize you.

2:03:10 Speaker 1: We're not gonna ridicule you. We're not gonna do this. We're gonna take it seriously, we're gonna investigate it. I think more more than more than they think or or know, people would be super receptive to that, and they would take to it. And I think the amount of reports would triple quadruple if if they showed that they were more Yeah, simply by brand recognition alone, Like yeah, the older generation knew about move On, right, because that's how it was right magazines and then you saw you got if you were interested in UFOs, you knew about move On.

2:03:48 Speaker 1: But most people don't. So they need to advertise themselves as hey, like you know, work with the police departments, work with with UH law enforcement. Make sure that if a UFO sighting is seen that the police will refer them to move on, right, have that engagement, like because the police don't go investigate UFO accounts usually not usually not right they So, yeah, and that's I guess what I'm saying is exposure. They need to get out there and tell people that, hey, you can, you can report with us and there's no stigma.

2:04:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, totally and and there isn't. That's that's clearly slowly become a thing of the past with the stigma, which you know, I would you know, credit the the d O D for that, I mean right, you know, right on on their website it shows his or stigmatized for for either.

2:04:52 Speaker 1: And people don't know that. Guys like David Grush testified and said that there's these crash for tribal programs like you know, at the same time as the grush hearing was the Johnny Depp trial. Can you can you can you guess which one got more views?

2:05:10 Speaker 2: I don't know.

2:05:12 Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying is that might be the problem, like exposure, and uh no, thank.

2:05:19 Speaker 2: You so much for I appreciate that.

2:05:22 Speaker 1: We'll do it again. We'll do it again. But where can people follow you? And how can people get to know you?

2:05:28 Speaker 2: Terrific? Thanks? So, yes, we do have social media. On Instagram, it's uh m u f l N. That's a move on underscore m A. So that's move on Massachusetts chapter or if you go onto Facebook, it's moof on Massachusetts. And also we've got if you go onto YouTube, it is the channel all one word American Road Warrior and that's where we have our five mass show called mass Hysteria.

2:06:04 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll put all those links in the description below and then somewhere here will be a QR code that you can scan. It will bring you right to his YouTube. That mean you can you can stay at much. Thank you for doing this, man, I really really appreciate it. And uh, everyone out there, uh you know what it is, same as usual, hit like, share, subscribe if you're listening on Apple or Spotify legal rating and review. It's one of the biggest ways about total disclosure