Lue Elizondo's Attorney Ivan Hannel: "SCIF FLU" & Rep Luna On JRE- Karl Nell & The Apocalypse?

0:24 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to Total Disclosure. Got a special episode for everyone tonight. We are live and I usually I'm gonna get back into this, you know, doing a live show per week, making sure that that we're interacting and engaging with the community more consistently. I was a little bit delayed today. I do want to apologize for that. But guys, we've got a great show for you today.

0:53 Speaker 2: I want to say.

0:54 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to Tell the Disclosure. As I said before, today on the show, we'll be having an electrified discussion. We're diving deep into the enigmatic world of UFOs and government disclosure with none other than Ivan handle Esquire, a powerhouse attorney who's becoming a more prominent voice and figure in the UAP conversation. As the legal counsel for Lou Elizondo, a former head of a TIP. Whether you like it or not, Lou has become a leading voice in UFO disclosure. Ivan is a front row seat to some of the most groundbreaking developments in this space, from navigating congressional briefings to protecting whistle blowers and facilitating.

1:36 Speaker 3: The avergence of new insiders.

1:38 Speaker 1: Ivan's journey, Glenn's law secrecy and the Search for Truth. Tonight, we'll explore Ivan's experiences, unpack the legal and poelitical complexities of UFO disclosure, and maybe get a glimpse at what's coming next.

1:55 Speaker 2: Kick back, Gradicola and buckle up.

1:57 Speaker 1: It's going to be Oh why ride.

2:08 Speaker 2: All right, mister Hanl. Good to have you on the show, my friend. Thanks. I sorry, I'm the one who was delayed, and I apologize that so it was not your delay, it was mine. But keeping everything honest. But thanks very much, and you know, happy to chat with you. I hope. I have a tendency to look at the screen rather than the camera, so I apologize. I'll do my best.

2:30 Speaker 1: You're fine, man, You're fine. I'm sure you've been in far more tense environment.

2:39 Speaker 2: This is you and I have.

2:41 Speaker 1: A conversation as as as friends and you know, Jimmy I think Jimmy Church has a really good saying.

2:48 Speaker 2: We should always.

2:48 Speaker 1: Steal it from him. But uh, you know where the conversation starts. It starts where it ends, it ends, but will end as friends.

2:55 Speaker 2: Oh that's a beautiful one. That's a great I was on I think I was with Jimmy Church once on the radio. Sho show you to you seemed like a very nice person.

3:02 Speaker 3: Yeah he is.

3:03 Speaker 2: He's pretty intense. He's really intense. Actually, oh interesting, Okay, that's interesting. I thought I did find him to be very pro disclosure, which you know, I certainly respect. And yeah, that was that was a nice time. Yeah, so I listen.

3:18 Speaker 1: I've been watching your presence in the community grow, so I've been very eager to chat with you, and you know, I really before we get started, obviously, guys made suret and like share subscribe. The first thirty minutes of the show is streamed on x but after that I caught it off. You got to come over to YouTube. But again, I want to say thank you to mister Hannele for being here. We're gonna have some really really fun As always, my fellow truth seekers and assets, make sure you whisk and roll in that like button at a low simmer and share the show with your friends.

3:55 Speaker 1: The Grays, fuck your family, we don't care. Subscribe as well, ring the bell so you don't miss any future uploads or live shows like the.

4:03 Speaker 3: One we're watching right now.

4:04 Speaker 1: Okay, Bill's paid one last time.

4:07 Speaker 2: Thank you, Ivan.

4:08 Speaker 3: Let's get let's get started. Brother, the your seasoned attorney.

4:15 Speaker 1: UFOs and UAPs aren't exactly standard legal fare. What was the defining moment when you first got pulled into this world of ufology and how did your relationship with buel Zondo begin?

4:31 Speaker 2: You know, there wasn't really a moment in particular. I think I just became interested in it like anybody else. You know, I go back to the sort of seven old twenty seventeen New York Times article and you know, began to give it more credit. Perhaps I was not a historian of UFOs. It's not that I thought it was impossible, as I've said many times, I simply thought it was unlikely that in my lifetime I would be the you know, part of the generation where there was a recognition of some sort of presence or observation or whatever it is.

5:04 Speaker 2: And also, frankly, I was fairly skeptical that the United States government could keep a program to recover and deconstruct or whatever you want to call it, reverse engineer UAP. I prefer to call them UFO. So I'm just going to go back to that, and everybody else can say whatever they want. But I just thought it was somewhat improbable. But you know, in reflection, you know, you can think of, you know, by analogy, that there are programs that you know, the atomic bomb probably wasn't known by very many people up until it blew up.

5:39 Speaker 2: The D Day invasion, where you know, both sides had certainly incentives to learn what was happening on the other side and what's going to happen within a certain period of time, was held secret despite hundreds of thousands of people being on either side waiting for death. Frankly, so you know, you can see, you know, so it's possible, I mean, and you know, the levels of stupidity, frankly that the government is capable of is astronomical. Another example which gave me reason to think it might be possible that they would do something as inane as trying to hide the recovery and reverse engineering of UFOs and associated strange things, was you know, Agent Orange.

6:20 Speaker 2: Actually, I mean, if I you know, if you ever, I came from Arizona, and Arizona is very hard to maintain a garden without having weeds. It's just like you've got to nuke the ground. And I'm not in favor of that. I prefer a more natural setting. But in Arizona. It's all fake law lawns and whatever, and you're out there cutting the grass and so on. So so to imagine defoliating and whoever came up with the genius idea of defoliating entire mountain ranges and paths in a country in order to drop iron bombs which are imprecise anyway, you know, is one of the most extraordinarily stupid endeavors that could have ever happened.

6:59 Speaker 2: And yet it did, you know, And I could go on and on, you know, the whether it's nine to eleven, the ridiculous invasion of the wrong country, uh, during the random you know, during the Afghanistan, you know, in modern whole thing. And then even our response to COVID was completely asinine. It's not that I'm you know, anti vaccine necessarily, but uh, you know, I iknew so without going into all the you know, my my whole COVID stuff, Uh, fundamentally, I had to accept that might be possible that the US government, you know, we both had some very well hidden program that it persisted over many decades, and in addition was for some strange set of probably very human reasons, not necessarily good reasons.

7:45 Speaker 2: But human reasons was inhibiting knowledge about this within the domain of physics. Is Eric Weinstein perhaps you know, believes or or just to the general public, you know, and and and so I had to give it some credence and that's where it kind of began for me. And then they became more formally involved, as you know, and of referenced only last year, although I think I was a little bit before that, you know, chatting with people in the community, reaching out to people and getting their perspective, and you know that that was it.

8:18 Speaker 2: So it wasn't you know, it wasn't one seminal moment where you know, I was in my car and you know, light came out and all that crap. Now, it's not like that. It was just very.

8:29 Speaker 1: You have a you didn't have a Jake Barber moment where or passed through you.

8:35 Speaker 2: And you know, that's a fascinating thing. I mean, I both envy him for having such an extra extreme experience. He certainly, in my opinion, believes what he believes. Genuinely. That's what I infer by looking at his face and understanding him and you know, his behavior. He really seems to have had a phenomenal experience. I've had no experiences what I must have whatever it is that keeps the aliens away, and some people think that's good and some people think that's bad. I have no opinion of it.

9:01 Speaker 2: I'm not a you know, I'm not a eufologist, not only in the in the sense that I've studied. You know, I haven't studied this field as some have, and many people sort of use that as a I wouldn't say a crutch. I wish I could do much more study, but you know, they feel very aligned with the study of this phenomena. I, you know, really see it in a very narrow lens. I'm not necessarily I almost think of sometimes, you know, it's almost like a Jihattist for UFOs. Rather, I am an American who wants our government to work, and I think this would be one way of maybe getting to some community, both within the United States and within the world, so that we have something better to be.

9:44 Speaker 2: And my predicament throughout this journey has been that the people involved in this whole thing, not all of them. Many of them are great people, and I don't want to malign all of them, but we need to be better on the route to the destination. As I always say, it's not the aliens won't save us from ourselves. If we bring mal intent and corruption and conspiracy and power broker y and behind the scenes bullshit, then the net result will be uh, you know, the aliens aren't going to fix that. And there are many people who are very enthused for the technology and they think they're going to fly around on magic carpets or what the fuck it is, sorry curse and you know, but for me, that's not that's insane.

10:29 Speaker 2: You're not going to be better on Mars with your you know, magic technology. You're not going to be better. You're going to be just who you are. So who we are now actually matters. And there's many people within this community who allow people a very poor character and poor behavior and actually bad intent to lead this group of people. And I think it's really unfortunate because your character does matter. You know, people change, I understand, and we're all a mix of good and bad. So you know, I understand that, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my principles on the road to UFOs.

11:12 Speaker 2: That's a good point. And so so after you have this or at least you.

11:21 Speaker 1: Have these series of thoughts where you start to consider that what has been said around the UFO topic may in fact there be there there is a there. Uh you You then, how do you meet Elizondo and how do you become specifically one of the most well known people in in in ufology?

11:49 Speaker 2: How do you call ufology? I call it upology. I'm sorry, I just I don't know.

11:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a potato. It'sato, honestly, Okay, Yeah, so uphology. So, I mean, you went from zero to sixty real quick, and it was some man who was represented mind you, I didn't mean to cut you off there. I do apologize. This is a man that was represented by Danny Shean, right, this is a man who led one of the most now at least allegedly led one of the most well known you know, UFO programs, you know, kind of what the whole twenty seventeen article was based around. So you're reading that article and then you become a lawyer for the guy that's talked about in that article.

12:41 Speaker 2: Sure, So how does that happen? Well, I mean it was very simple. I'll be you know, I'll tell you the story I met him. I mean it's not a big deal. And by the way, I know for you all it's a big deal. But you know, I represent people, whether you're a client, you know, who has a business dispute with another client, whether it's corporations disputing certainly represented individuals, and many kinds of things. I take everybody sort of the same. So for me, it wasn't some you know, I know, I know it's hard for you all to imagine, but I'm not.

13:11 Speaker 2: Again, I'm not a you know, I'm not a ufologist necessarily. I'm simply a lawyer who found himself in unusual circumstance with an interest in the field. Okay, that's it. I met Lou because a guy named Ewan Fung, who is the former head of the UAP Disclosure Fund, nice person. I happened to meet him once. I think they were frankly looking for you know, there were some additional people on this call with Lou who are perhaps maybe going to give some funds or something like that, and I just got I knew them, they were friends, and I still respect them.

13:44 Speaker 2: They're two very nice people in the community, and so I was introduced. I really don't have any other greater explanation than that. It was just a random moment where you know, it was like, Hey, would you like to meet Lou I was like, I didn't. I frankly didn't know much about him. I know that sounds strange because you all did, but I didn't know a whole lot about him. And got on the phone, and you know, I found it to be a very interesting and kind and re seeingly reasonable person. So I got along with him.

14:09 Speaker 2: Well, and that really is and I apologize, and you know, that's it. So it was just a very sort I'm gonna meet my family.

14:15 Speaker 1: That was it.

14:15 Speaker 2: It was just a very positive experience, and enjoyed his conversation, and you know, we continued to talk. I think he at that point did not have a particular uh you know, I don't know what was going on with his legal world, but so we just talked to people. Now that really where it began.

14:36 Speaker 1: You recently mentioned a new witness who could blow open the New Jersey drone mystery, and that challenges Arrow's narrative and really the official narrative that's been put forth by the Trump administration, by the Buide administration, by pretty much everybody without reviewing sensitive details what makes this witness so significant and how could their testimony, you know, reshape the public narrative and speculation about the incident.

15:07 Speaker 2: So I don't know that I've suggested that he's you know, I don't know if quite I've characterized it that way, but let me But I do think he has important things to say, and I think he's a good person. I met him, boy what, I don't know. It might have been eight months ago. It was a random thing. He reached out to me. He had a very unusual story, although he was fairly readisent to share all the details of it, which is typical. And I tend not to ask questions of people beyond what they're willing to share, out of respect for their internal you know, their internal morality.

15:42 Speaker 2: So I don't try to coerce people in telling me their stories or anything that you know, would certainly be classified. And with him, he was not a government person and seemed nice. He had a very unusual story and the details of which, however, at least initially I could not confirm. However, he did share with me, and then you know, became more interested. Of course, a lot of the communications that were going on, frankly with the Senate S s C. I centered a rounds and others in his office, and eventually Arrow too.

16:23 Speaker 2: And although you know, these are you know, emails and texts and so on, and they don't necessarily, you know, out of some degree of caution. I don't think people put in, you know, the full script. So I'm getting you know, you're kind of reading a whole event or series of events that have transpired. But nevertheless, there was a lot of smoke, and I didn't, you know, I've not seen the underlying materials that he possesses, say one component, and I don't mean a component, I just mean a thing. But you know, I began to consider his his story, and and he he asked me to do a particular, very narrow task that was important to him.

17:12 Speaker 2: I really didn't even understand why I was that important, but I was successful with that task ultimately, and I assumed it was just gonna leave it from there. You know, I didn't really know what his desire was in full relief, but he seemed to have had, you know, not the best experience with certainly Errow, and I didn't know how to make it right, but I was glad to have accomplished the narrow task that I was asked to do, which is fine by me. I'm an attorney or not. You know, I don't have to see all the inside baseball.

17:46 Speaker 2: Then, however, you know, Tim Phillips went on with Mick West, and and actually what predates that, and was Representative Burlison spoke to him, had some communications. I wasn't privy to that, which is fine. I'm not a you know, I'm not not a control freak. Well, unfortunately, there are there's this the ufology crowd is filled with absolute maniac control maniac except I don't know that there's there might be, you know, some comparable group of people who are extraordinarily controlling. I think it might deal be because I'm part of the military and intelligence community background of these lunatics.

18:28 Speaker 2: But in any event, I you know, he brothers and went out said he had met with my client, felt there was some degree of truth to what he was presenting. Let's say.

18:42 Speaker 2: So that was fine. I didn't know where it was going to go, but I wished him well. And then the strangest thing happened, which was, you know, the Tim Phillips interview with Mick West.

18:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's through I mean not through me for a loop.

18:54 Speaker 2: It is strange. I mean, I I don't know, you know, I wasn't really keeping track of Tim Phillips. I really didn't know much about him as a person. I knew about Kirkpatrick just through the same stuff that you see online and so on, and you know, he didn't seem he seems smart but disingenuous, let's say. But Tim Phillips, you know, I began to see that he was on many podcasts, and on this podcast that around the forty two forty three minute mark, he was asked a question by Mick West, which was, you know, what was it like to work with Arrow?

19:27 Speaker 2: Now? One of the funny things about Tim Phillips, if you're an observer of people, is that he tends to be fairly discursive. I am too, sometimes because I'm tired and sometimes, you know, I kind of want to lay out all my thinking. But he was asked what was it like to work with the task Force? Now, we can certainly talk more about the task Force shortly. I'm sure that's gonna be a topic. But he was asked that, and his response was extraordinarily strange. It was it was orthogonal, to the question it was you know, what was it like to work with the task force?

19:57 Speaker 2: He could have said, you know, it was great, or you know it's mint, or it wasn't my real responsibility or whatever, and instead he says, they sent us one witness who I had, you know, Essentially, he implied that this one witness was a danger to others because he said, I'm not a medical professional. And you know, if I say I'm not a medical professional, but you're a bank thief, you can't excuse your words by preceding them with I'm not a medical professional, but I think you're you know, wanted by the law that it doesn't work.

20:33 Speaker 2: And he did that typically in a sort of self protective way that people do. And then he also went and said that you know that he brought in physical materials. Mick West asimal, what you know, what did you did you bring in physical materials? And having knowledge that he did have physical materials, I was surprised that he was willing to confirm that, and he did confirm it, and then he went on to say that as a result of that, either the physical materials and other written and videographic and photographic and other information which I again I've not seen myself but for one small but for you know, sort of emails and texts and one object.

21:12 Speaker 2: He he basically said that as a result of that, he went back to talk to the chairman of which I assumes the chairman of the SSCI, and who I believe is Tom Cotton at least you know, and this year, and he said he talked to him and as a result he was recommended to go get read in to various programs at what he called the Nevada test site, which I assume is Area fifty one or something like that. And then even stranger, he said that because of his read into those programs and his knowledge of what my client brought forth, that what he could understand why people might think this technology was alien in nature because it must be so technologically advanced.

22:04 Speaker 2: That was a mind blowing moment in some respects, although you're having to follow sort of the lattice work of Tim Phillips' presentation and thought process, but essentially it confirmed that at least in some great degree, whatever it was that my client presented to Centered Rounds and Sci and Arrow was compelling enough to go get Tim Phillips red into I guess at least more than one program, he said program. So I'm just going to infer it's more than one that has what might seem to be alien technology.

22:43 Speaker 2: Now, because I know my client's story, and I know it's exact timeframe two thousand and three, and because I know what he claims he saw, it would certainly not be a minor technology. And I want to clarify, just for everybody, when you say something is alien like, right, which is what Tim Phillips said, it is distinct from saying it is simply advanced. So if I said to you, you know, if I showed you the I believe it's the NAD. I forget what it's called. The F forty seven, I don't know some new plane that we're building or potentially building, and I said to you, does that look alien like?

23:22 Speaker 2: I don't think you would say yes. I mean, you might say, shirts an upgrade from the F thirty five or the F fifteen or the F four, you know, one of those planes, But you wouldn't say, wow, that's alien right. So what it is, What this means is this is not just an incremental or even a significant but still prosaic. Let's say improvement upon existing technology. This seems to be a capability or a capacity that is wild. Now. Originally putting it back at two thousand and three was very strange for me, because, first of all, I simply just didn't have the imagination to think that the United States government could be that advanced back in two thousand and three.

24:06 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I have not been told the drones over the East Coast and elsewhere have been sort of presenting themselves, as well as many videos of whatever it seems to be going on. You know, I just didn't think we had made that kind of advancement that was presented. You know, I just couldn't fathom it.

24:24 Speaker 1: Because I go ahead, well finish your point, because what I'm about to say is going to require I apologize.

24:33 Speaker 2: No no, no, that's fine. I've probably gone to to have a tency.

24:35 Speaker 3: No no, no, no, I'm loving this. Keep gone.

24:38 Speaker 2: But based on what you know I knew about the story, and based on Tim phillips qualification of you know, confirmation, whatever you want to call it, it suggested to me that we've had a program and I've heard things that suggest that we have some very advanced programs standing. I didn't know how long standing. But you know, you think about things like James Lekatski said, you know, I don't know it took twenty years to get inside. You know, he talked about getting inside of U. Yes to twenty years.

25:10 Speaker 2: Well when was that? And you know, perhaps this is been going on for much longer. I mean, we know that there's been programs since this, you know, since the forties. But you know, I had kind of accepted the idea that they had gotten nowhere or that we certainly would exercise we would use this tremendous capacity to do something at least militarily, if not for social good. But we haven't.

25:34 Speaker 3: So it would have popped up in the public sector such I would.

25:37 Speaker 2: Have thought so at some point. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of unique technology or you know, some super torpedo or some super communications system or so even some great satellites or something, but nothing that you know, we don't understand is being sort of part of the five observables or something very unusual. Right, But it appears to be the case that we made some significant advances. Does this mean that you know the tik bak was human or not? I have no idea. I may have no claims about that.

26:02 Speaker 2: He may have an idea about that the object that he saw was not a tic tac or at least at least at least initially. I can't say later because I don't you know, I don't know all the details, and I can't speak for him. And by the way, just really quick, I haven't said enough about him. He's a good person. He wants to you know, he's just a business person. He is not a ufology you know advocate. He it's not that he discredits it or thinks it's unreasonable. He's just very sort of looking to help the United States with what he considers a prosaic need, at least in terms of, you know, a thing that he can help with.

26:41 Speaker 2: It's based on human technology, let's leave it at that. And so so that's his mindset. And you know, I was shocked by the way he was treated maligned for no reason. You know, there's so many missteps these intelligence community people make to arbitrarily because probably because frankly, I think was bothered by the weeks, the preceding weeks, you know, when Burlison said he had met with this whistleblower, and so they know who they all are. I think he was in his head and he was responding to something that bothered him.

27:15 Speaker 2: And so in addition to simultaneously saying that my client and again it is not Llewell's not a pleased for those who are new understanding.

27:23 Speaker 1: So is this the person that has been talked about as a potential future whistleblower.

27:29 Speaker 3: But will not right now? A.

27:32 Speaker 2: He's not a whistleblower. He's not a part of the government. He's not revealing some he's not interior to a program and coming out and saying there's corruption or whatever. He's a private citizen who ran into a very unusual event, had happened to have, through himself and his family, the background to perhaps engage it in a sophisticated way and gathered evidence and worked at it and figured some things out. Now, again I can't speak to I've never seen it, you know, I can only see the degree to which SSC I was taking him seriously, trying to get him perhaps funding, but was running into roadblocks because what he wanted to do, frankly, was to help, you know, to help America prepare for or at least understand that although this technology is very advanced.

28:18 Speaker 2: It is not fool proof, and to me, the relevancy of all of this is not what the underlying technology is. Although it's very interesting because it may be derived from our favorite topic, right uap or UFOs, And that's where it becomes very interesting. But it also becomes interesting in another way, which is that for me, I was reflecting, I was thirty years old on nine to eleven, and that was a you know, I remember, and you're pretty I don't know how you look a little young, but you know, compared.

28:47 Speaker 1: To thirty yeah, thirty two, so yeah, it's nine to eleven.

28:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, you were young. You probably felt it. But you know, I was thirty years old and watching people take swan dives off of towers because of lunatic gihat is unfortunately, which now are throughout our country with their insanity. But but you know, I watched people swan dive off the World Trade centers, and then I watched just make every possible mistake in terms of how we treated our people, in terms of invading the wrong country, in terms of not you know, Halle Burton, if you remember all of that, and it's corruption and you know, you know, all the wrong things happen, and you know, so it was very it was very shocking, and so for me personally, you know, I really think that we have a big problem with drones.

29:36 Speaker 2: Whatever these drones are over New Jersey and had been prior to that over Colorado, Nebraska are a significant issue. Whether they are merely advanced drones, whether they incorporate some phenomenal technology, I don't know. I can't trust any videos and photos anymore. I'm not a sleuth like that, But what I will say is that President Trump.

29:59 Speaker 1: It's a sad world that live in where video evidence is is, you know, with the advancement of AI, video evidence is essentially like kind of it's being every day more and more rendered obsolete in terms of credibility.

30:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of. It's a strange thing where as you advanced technologically, the more truth can be found in the past. And you know, and that's why doctor via via Roel, if I was pronouncing her name's work might be very important to astro chain because it predates, you know, our efforts in space. So that science is incredibly important in my opinion, although I certainly don't know what transients are and still doesn't make sense to me. You know what they are doing.

30:44 Speaker 3: I could.

30:45 Speaker 1: I was watching it, and I'm like, I don't really understand, Like it was full frustrating because I'm like, I don't really fucking understand what she's saying, but it sounds like something that's very impactful and the science like that. That's of course I had to do research. But I feel you're frustrated that guy.

31:03 Speaker 2: And that guy Dennis. I'm sorry. I don't know his name as Asperg or something like that. I'm sorry. I just I apologize. I don't know his last name and I'm probably mispronouncing, but his Asperger not Asperger. I don't think it's that. I'm sorry, but but whatever his name is, and I apologizer. He you know, his very emotional video that he put up and then took down, And you know, I really don't love taking down tweets because I not unless frankly, there's a spelling her. Sometimes I'm tempted because I often misspell.

31:33 Speaker 2: I hate to do that, but or if I really mistook something or was incorrect, I'm always willing to correct myself. But his h you know, he seems like a person of good will in his sense that something was very a miss or or maybe with the science or with the information is persuasive to me. You know, that's something there is there. So I wish them luck and hopefully they can uh help the scientifically less literate like myself and the scientific community which is literate, come to do some conclusion about what what might be going on.

32:10 Speaker 2: So it's unusual, but in any event, you know, so for me, my client is a good person. He was really just trying to to to look for sharing information, seeing the business opportunities, and really working in good faith with the executive branch and also with the Congress. Unfortunately, as you can tell, it's a it's a it's it is kind of a swamp in some respects. And uh, you know, I know that he remains. I know that, you know, if there is somebody out there who does have the relevant congressional ties, you know, he's willing to certainly re engage the government and and and do what he can because again he's a patriot, he's he's around my age, and and he just danced to do what he considers the right thing.

32:53 Speaker 2: As well as you know, he's invested with a lot of money, so there's business interests there. So it's a combination of the things. But ultimately I think that Tim Phillips confirmed something is very significant about the information he presented. It has implications towards advanced technology, the drones that we've seen over the East Coast, which have been confirmed by President Trump. However, you know, simply as FAA approved.

33:16 Speaker 3: I don't I don't think that that's true.

33:19 Speaker 2: And it begs all the questions of why are they there, and what are they doing? And what technology do they use? And are they all are And you know, I've heard different things. He seems to have some sense that they're that China has made some advancements, if not maybe to our degree. But I can't speak for him, and until he wants to come forward more, it is his choice to remain in the background. But I would say that he was mistreated by Arrow. This is no unusual thing, right, I mean, I think let me let me tell you on the point that I just like to make and I see these weird patterns.

33:55 Speaker 2: But although I'm not particularly a fan of Dave Grush, I will say for reasons, I will say that the release of his medical records is extremely you know, unfortunate. It's not a good look. Well, I don't know if that had anything to do with Arrow. Perhaps not, but if I found it coincidental that in Kim Phillips deriding my client it became medicalized as him being, you know, a danger to himself or others there. You know, you see these patterns by people and then they repeat because they can't help themselves, and I find that disgusting.

34:30 Speaker 2: If I don't like you and who you are and what you're going to say, I'm gonna tell it to you. I'm very direct that way, and people don't like that. And that's okay, because I don't live for ufology or the UFOs. Frankly, I mean, I'm just going to say here once and for all everybody, I'm not that I don't care about the aliens. I care about the humans. Okay. I don't care about your technology and your craft. I don't think you're going to do any good with it. I think that the knowledge of it is important in the same way the knowledge of how the sun works or how black holes work is also important.

35:03 Speaker 2: It teaches us about what reality is and is not, and whether it is masked to us or not. But I am not particularly interested in, you know, that reality of aliens or any child whatever you want to call them, a UFOs, all that stuff, It does not fascinate me. The problems we have are between and within us as human beings. And I have said multiple times in many different formats that the problems are us and the aliens will not save us. And I mean that. And so deception and control behind the scenes in this field is what exactly is holding us back.

35:39 Speaker 2: And then you look at Congress and with some exceptions such as I believe Tim Burchad is a very nice person. I think Representative Brosen is a really nice person. Yep. I think Senator Rounds is a very intelligent person who might be keeping some things from us. Yeah yeah, But outside of that, I'm not that you know, this is not my ghod. My ghod is to try to make government better and to bring openness and accountability and transparency and ultimately cooperation. All of this should be for a cooperative approach to resolving a sociological, political, technological, and scientific phenomena.

36:18 Speaker 1: Well, what do you what do you think about if trillions of dollars have been misallocated and funneled into essentially black illegal uh illegally run without proper oversight from Congress and thus the people that the taxpayer. Again, this is a human issue, right, and so yes, if we find out because Rogan and Luna had a conversation and I want to talk to a little bit about something else that that was said. But if we find out that people, I mean, do you support mass and this?

37:01 Speaker 2: I personally do not. I don't, Okay, No, no, no, no, I can understand where people are. You know, let's just forgive everybody and move on so that there's no I'm glad you feel passionate. That's nice. But again, yes, no, I would not favor a mass amnesty for people. I can understand that. You know, if you did the rough calculations, just say, well, if you forgive you know, one hundred or a thousand or ten thousand people. I don't know how many people are behind all of this. Probably many are dead, you know, it last a long time and so on.

37:30 Speaker 2: But if we forgive them now, we will get the benefit of aliens and spaceships and we will go send to the stars and all of that. No, you won't, You'll do what you've always done, which has been corrupt and ridiculous. So there must be accountability. And then when you think about the people who allege, and you know, I believe there's some truth there. I haven't seen enough to bring a legal case. But to the people who alleged that they were in programs just with them in very distressing positions and all this stuff, you know that like the gay program, I don't know the truth of it, you know, and I've got a lot on my plate, but I would you know something of interest, let's say, And I'll continue to keep my eye on it.

38:05 Speaker 2: And I've met some very nice people who are good people who say they were part of it, and I don't dispute them. But at the same time, you know, they have to want to do more, and I have to have the evidentiary basis to do anything more. So I'm at a loss with it. I'm at a standstill, but I do I think it would be absolutely wrong to compromise our ethics and also my morality at least to forgive people for harming others and deceiving the American people. No doubt, if there were trillions of dollars or hundreds of billions or whatever it is spent over time on black programs, you know, and there is a need for black programs, because even the lineem that you have.

38:46 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying that black programs don't have a place, but the fact that there seems to be nobody to account for whatever that might be going on, and they deny any knowledge of this other than telling us at least the ontology that we have some unique technology opportunities from craft that we you know. And of course I don't think they can because once you open up that can of worms, everybody's gonna want to know, where's the bodies, what are the craft? How long is this going going on?

39:13 Speaker 2: And but you know what, I think that story should be told. I think we need to come clean. We do not need a review board to look at things and sanitize things and decide what comes in and out. We need accountable government from the people who are there right now. We need the Senate, the Congress, you know, the House, the agencies, and the President and the judiciary when necessary to to to be true to its nature and its purpose. Find your own north star, give us whatever truth there is. America can handle the truth, as Louel Azando does, saying so and repeatedly said, you know, and and and again his his his philosophy is I can't break the rules to make the rules.

39:55 Speaker 2: So he has a little different you know. I mean maybe i'd be more snow mishi and go off tangent, know and run to Well. I wouldn't run to Russia unless I could get myself in a room with Putine for about five minutes, two minutes and finish him. But I mean death.

40:09 Speaker 1: Uh.

40:09 Speaker 2: But I'm not a fan of Putin, and obviously for that reason, I'm also a big proponent of Ukraine as well as Israel. But you know, I'm no fan of his policy in Ukraine. But and I'm not religious. I'm not religious. Just everyone I know not religious.

40:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, so whatever, I don't think.

40:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that has really a place for well, not that religion doesn't have a place in the in the field.

40:37 Speaker 2: But he does. I'm okay with religion. I'm not against it unless unless you're throwing acid in girls' faces, or marrying off children, or stony gay people, or or suppressing voices or banning music that particular religion. Yeah, I have a huge problem with that.

40:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that of course is for a different time, different yeah, different topics.

40:57 Speaker 3: But I you know it's something I am passionate about it.

41:00 Speaker 1: And you know, I know I talk about UFOs and I talk about but I also like talking about political uh the geopolitics, and I do like getting into that. But I want to I'm gonna steer back a little bit. No, no, no, no, don't don't be sorry. This is how it works, this is how discussion works.

41:19 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry.

41:20 Speaker 3: I thank you. I love it. Uh. Luna was on Brogan made some headlines.

41:27 Speaker 1: It made some headlines, and you know she while not directly referencing Elizondo, she had said something.

41:39 Speaker 3: Lou responded to it by.

41:42 Speaker 1: Showing some emails about So essentially, you have the leader of the task force right this, the secrets task Force, saying Okay, we're trying to bring these people in. They they're they're talking a big game, but when we open the skiff up, they're nowhere to be seen. They's skiff flu. Okay, now that's the buzzword of the of the week, skiff flu. And els Lou taking this to heart, you know, to heart, whether it was about him or not, he steps out and says, listen, that's not what's happening here.

42:16 Speaker 3: You know that that's not at all. What's happening?

42:19 Speaker 1: So and then Luna responds again and so, what is going on?

42:23 Speaker 3: What is going on? What's the truth or what what? What is what is your take on what's going on?

42:30 Speaker 2: I know exactly what's going on. Okay, So first of all, let's go back Representative Luna in at the end of the hearing last year in November, I think it was November thirteenth where.

42:39 Speaker 3: I was there. So was I was, oh, yeah, yeah, I know, I saw you that I was gonna bring that up.

42:45 Speaker 2: People people made funny fun of me if I thought I was you know, they made fun of my tie. You guys don't know this, but at least all my tie. So that's why my tie was weird. And I like it. I love the guy. I mean, it's fine, but I understand I was. I was extraordinarily tired too. People like it looks like a lizard. I was like, yeah, I felt like sleeping at the time.

43:04 Speaker 3: Yeah.

43:04 Speaker 1: We were all at like four a m. Outside standing in the fuck gold.

43:09 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it was it's tiring.

43:11 Speaker 1: You know.

43:12 Speaker 2: Look, look, even after that hearing, instead of just being positive, you know, she said, lou was there to sell books all he said was in context that he had to have doopts or review things so that he could release certain information. It wasn't like he was saying he didn't even name the book. I mean, if you're gonna be a pop you know, he could have brought the book, he could have waved it around, he could have said, as you know, imminent, imminent, imminent. He didn't do that, and then she had the gall the temerity tod critique him, you know, when he was very critical to bringing you know, to getting some of that, not all of that.

43:41 Speaker 2: I think there were others who you know, who were involved in getting that whole immaculate constant constellation, you know, all that. So that was fine. You know, Jeremy Corbell did great efforts, and I think you know, I always I love George Nappa, you know, I appreciate the work that they've done and you know, even if it may be different than what I would do, but I appreciate that. But so, you know, that was really quite an insult, and he didn't take it personally. You know, lou is a very forgiving person, a very kind person.

44:09 Speaker 2: He wasn't huffing and puffing about it. He was like gosh, that was weird. Why why'd you do that? But I said, I don't know. Maybe she maybe that's what she took out of she was the last thing she heard. I don't know, so and we were exhausted. I barely remembered it, you know, but it was something that was noted, and it was a strange degree of sort of disregard for somebody who's you know, I mean, let's be clear here, Luke lou had to resign. Luke quit his job, and as a government employee, you know, you don't, you don't.

44:34 Speaker 2: There's not always easy, you know, easy parallel paths to go. So he's sacrificed for all these years in ways that people will maybe never find out. And I don't mean death threats or all that. I kind of I'm sorry. I just I'm not a I've dealt with a lot of death, and you know, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. But some of this, the whole sort of illusion to violence, I'm I'm I'm more skeptical about all of that, just because I personally haven't seen it. But you know, whatever, it might be true.

45:05 Speaker 2: But but he sacrificed a great deal of his time, energy, you know, and everything and and and and made this event in some way along with all the you know, you always stand on the shoulders of the giants in moving things forward. So so he's part of everything, but not not everything. And he's humble about it. And for her to come out of that and say that was very strange and uh somewhat insulting, but you know, he he, he moved past it and he was happy, you know, and and then you know, we we move forward.

45:38 Speaker 2: And uh, there was this opportunity, I guess to do a skiff and I and is there anything you want me to focus on? Because I can tell the entire story from my perspective, but if you have a specific question, please let me know.

45:50 Speaker 1: Nook continue, I I definitely want to know what what the why? There's a why there's a complete dissonance and and are there's.

46:00 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I will, I will. Well there's only really one side, but you know, Luna could have her side as incomprehensible and incoherent as it is. So she is. I just I call her sometimes Princess Luna or Florida Woman. It just depends on my mood.

46:16 Speaker 3: Florida Woman.

46:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it that might become a sound bite.

46:21 Speaker 3: I don't know.

46:21 Speaker 2: Listen, I don't care. I could care less people, you know, all the UFO people are super like, oh god, you know, don't say this to a senator representative. I mean, I'm gonna just tell you a funny story. I was at the UAPDF here and one of the lawyers there saw me getting Eric Bertless's cellphone number because I was like, oh, you know, I don't even remember why I was getting it. I just got it and it turned out to be handy later, but anyway, and he texted me, of all people, but anyway, this was a long time.

46:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, he actually saw me too. It was weird.

46:49 Speaker 2: Okay, good. He's a nice guy. He's a very very nice person. I give him all credit for being a peacemaker and a thoughtful person and a sober person. So unfortunately there were some saf foo's. But but you know, and this lawyer ran up to try to get the same number because I was just bold enough and it wasn't even bold. I was like, hey, what's your telephone number in case we need to reach you to because remember at that time, that was when the snaffoo had happened. So I was trying to I had not, you know, engaged in all the setup for all of this crap.

47:20 Speaker 2: But then seeing how incompetent those people were at UAPDF, frankly, I decided to get somebody's numbers so I could say, hey, are we on? Because you know this was it was a strange cancelation. So to go back. There was this idea of a skiff, and frankly, Lou Alizondo was going to go there, I think really in a coordinating fashion rather than a testimonial one. Necessarily that he was bringing people who he thought could be helpful to the task force to from different agencies who had been working on this.

47:50 Speaker 2: That is as literally, that is as broad as I understood it, and I was fine. Lou asked me to present myself. I was willing to go. He had maybe, you know, sometimes time you have a concern based on his experience as to whether he would need a legal advertent council at the time. I'm always happy to do that to whatever limited extent I can. You know, it's going to be inside a skiff, I unless there's some reason for me to be inside there that engages a legal topic. I had not been part of any of the planning, you know.

48:19 Speaker 2: So I had not intended to be in any skiff or anything like that, although if necessary, i'd certainly do so. But there's a process for that, which I think pretty pretty elaborate for a civilian.

48:29 Speaker 3: So yeah, you're I'm a civilian.

48:33 Speaker 1: There's civilion, but you're you're an attorney for someone who's but you you still don't have the clearance.

48:39 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I have no clearances. And beyond that, I'm just telling you guys, and I know it's unbelievable to all of you, and everybody wants to be in the room where it happened or fly on the wall. I have no interest in that at all. I don't care what these people say in their skiff. I wish them luck, find the aliens, find the UFOs, find the government corruption, but I don't need to know that. I'm not sure what I would do with that information. What am I going to do? Knock on a hangar you know, Rambo style and you know parachute in and you know, I mean, what am I going to do with this crap?

49:07 Speaker 2: So I'm like, go do what you're going to do. And if there's a legal component where I think there's any jeopardy or some pressure, I will certainly be there. So that was really it. I was very tired. I had a lot of trial work the week before, but I said, okay, I'll fly in, fly in. I forget if I arrived the day before, you know, Sunday or Saturday. I forget exactly when. But I flew in and there was a lot of emails being back and forth. And I will say this right now. I was on a chain of emails and David Grush was on those chains of emails.

49:37 Speaker 2: I still have them. And he was very persistent about qualifying who was going to be in the room and what their role was going to be, and if they had clearance and if their agency did this. And on one sand I respected it because you know, you want to make sure they you know that there's not a snapoo and something. Somebody gets up to the door and it's like, I'm sorry, but you're not on the guest list. So I understood that. I did not know that it was his role in particular to be sort of the you know, the security guard for the skiff, which is what he seemed to be making himself into.

50:08 Speaker 2: So I was strangely not impressed, let's say, by the degree of sort of I'm gonna be careful, but I would say I found it unusual how invested he was and making sure everybody who was there had to write and reason to be there. I didn't know that that was his role, whether it was imposed, whether it was appointed, I had no idea. I thought that was handled through like the House Sergeant of Arms or the House Security Committee or you know. But look, it's okay. I could care less. I was barely tracking those emails except seeing multiple multiple emails going back and forth and on.

50:45 Speaker 2: Saw those lunatics, and I, you know, was I got a weird feeling the week before that maybe something might not work out or maybe a person might not be able to present because of this. And I just assumed, who knows. I was like, whatever, these people are very security conscious. I respect that. Let them get the right clearances. If he wants to invest his time in that, that's fine. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. However, so there was the so that was happened in the week prior. There was one thing that also happened that was very alarming to me.

51:22 Speaker 2: And I will just say that I've communicated that to Eric Burlison, And I will also say that there was an engagement that I found very inappropriate by the UAPDF people about lose testimony inside that skiff. Beyond that, I will not go further, but they have at least and it was coercive and I found it extraordinarily inappropriate, and I mean it, and I am happy to go and give and testify under oath, not before the Luna screw her, but again, but if if need be, I am more than willing to go under oath and polygraph or whatever it is.

51:59 Speaker 2: You know it's usually under oath. I'm an attorney, I have bar licenses. I you know, there's things of jeopardy. But I found there were some very inappropriate communications. I do not like the people at UAPDF, except for Chris Mellen, who's a very decent human being. But the rest I have no communication with and would never speak to them again. So there was a tremendous I chewed people out at UAPDF, and I told them if they ever did that, because it was infringing upon my professional duties. It was trying to coerce me, to coerce lou On behalf of I won't even say Girliston has that information and I'm done done with it.

52:38 Speaker 3: So that was not why Lou and Matt left.

52:44 Speaker 2: I don't know why Matt left. I think he wanted to work on his podcast. I think he maybe felt his role. You know, I don't know. I wasn't a part of you APDF. They wanted me to be, and we can tell that story another time, but I refused because I began to get Inklan's frankly, that they were really trying to control things. They're a bunch of control freaks. Except for Chris Mellon, seems like a decent human being, honorable person. But I'm not going to prevent I am going to come out and say my truth.

53:12 Speaker 2: So, yeah, yeah, they're they're horrible. And not everybody, not the board member.

53:17 Speaker 3: Well you don't have to Yeah, you don't have to get into it. But I get what you're saying.

53:22 Speaker 2: But some of those people, their behavior was abhorrent to me, to the point where it cross my mind that if if some of this had been in writing, but we can elicit the testimony and emails and so on in details, that I would be moving for a bar complaint against somebody. So I was extraordinarily angry that anybody would try to coerce. It's different when you try to give some information, but this was coercive and I will never have that again. I will never let that happen again. One thing you cannot do with me is try to get me to coerce my client to do anything he or she does not want to do.

53:57 Speaker 2: That's never going to work for you, and I will never be controlled by that. I'm a lawyer for a reason. I'm not here for uthology. I'm here to be an actual lawyer. I go to trial, I stand before judges. I do the right thing within reason, and I don't represent you. And I try to represent people, even with their flaws, as best I can. And I'm talking about Louis starting generally. So anyway, so that Skiff, Yeah, let's just go. Let's just tell the whole story. To be dene with it. Skiff's supposed to happen April twenty nine, get an email I flew in.

54:27 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, maybe it was the same day. I don't know, but anyway, get an email. I didn't even look at it that that you know, the meeting had been canceled, and I didn't know why it was given that. We were given a very banal reason that there was some legislative snafoo and so on. Okay, and that was fine. You know, if that had been it, and it had been true, I would have been like, well, that's weird. This seems very like surprising because you would know your legislative schedule. But things do change in Congress at at a moment's notice, and we have to be flexible.

55:03 Speaker 2: So I was disappointed, But I'm like, I'm not going in the skiff. I don't even know what's going on. I don't I don't care that much, and I'm not here to be associated with people who want to be in a skiff, right, Like, I'm not the person who wants to hang out in the room or next to people. This is all garbage to me. So I just said, look, fine, nobid do. Then within a day or two, Representative Luna actually told someone it might have been Matt Laslow or somebody else, that the reason the skiff had been canceled was because Dave Grush did not have a security clearance.

55:35 Speaker 3: I remember this, Well, wait.

55:38 Speaker 2: A minute, why didn't you tell us that in the first place. Dave grush. I mean, why did you invite all these people to this event? If the primary reason, did you think he was going to get a security clearance? Did you you know what's going on here? Now? There may have been other reasons too, legislative reasons, maybe some personal reasons. I don't know. Unfrankly, I don't care, because all timately I would have been happy to say, well, you know, things didn't work out, let's go tow it around DC. I met a nice person for lunch.

56:05 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it just it was fine. It was fine, you know right. The problem was is that after that there was the UAPDF show whatever you want to call it, on that Thursday'll just tell you. I don't want to go into all the details again, but you know Lou was run ragged. There was a dinner the night before it was planned by those nitwits. Lasted UNTI almost eleven pm. I will tell you, as a person who actually puts people up on the stand, I do not tell them to do anything that you know, do not stay up till eleven o'clock at night if you have to perform at you know the next day following position, get some sleep, eat what you like if you work out, work out first, you know, take a walk, Like there's things you do to get people ease into things.

56:49 Speaker 3: That's actually a good point.

56:51 Speaker 2: Oh it was insane.

56:52 Speaker 3: It was actually I didn't even think of before.

56:56 Speaker 2: It was just it was actually quite sad.

57:00 Speaker 3: So it was like, keep them up till eleven drinking.

57:03 Speaker 2: He wasn't drinking. He was drinking water and he was you know, no, he wasn't drinking to my knowledge.

57:08 Speaker 3: I mean, he has a right to, but I'm saying I.

57:11 Speaker 2: Have a drink.

57:13 Speaker 1: But the night was a thing that goes to eleven, and like you would assume that.

57:19 Speaker 2: Look, it was probably a nice you know, people thought it would be a nice opportunity to talk and all that, but I mean, you know, this is game time, guys. You don't you don't like if you you you know, the u APDF people were like, we're the geniuses in the room. Meanwhile they're doing something completely asinine and scheduling this guy for an insane schedule to where he I have no idea, and then to drive starting at ten thirty or eleven back to you know where his house was, kids whatever it was. I mean, my god, it was nuts.

57:49 Speaker 2: And he dropped people off, including ourselves. I mean, I felt bad for him, I felt bad for myself, but I assumed it was fine. And you know, some people operate well on tremendous being tired. I don't know, they seem to overperform. So it was strange and there were some very strange experiences at that dinner. There was a lot of testifying, which I also found extraordinarily self serving and disgusting. And I'm not going to even get into that, and I don't care about those people. I would just tell you there was a lot of weird stuff.

58:16 Speaker 2: There are also some great people, I thought, you know, there was some really nice people too. Eric Davis was a gentleman and very interesting and fun, and you know, I briefly talked to him. I talked to some very nice people, but there were also people who were I just described him as sycophants, and I don't like him. So Lou came out of that. The next day, you know, we went to that event. Lou was extremely tired, you know. He you know, there was the photo issue, which I did not know a damn thing about it, just like frankly, I didn't know recently about all this stuff.

58:48 Speaker 2: On Twitter. I saw it like everybody else. I'm not what you all think is some sort of like I'm a handler, like i'm Tom knit with, I'm a lawyer. I don't have time to be tying his shoe or or or and he doesn't need me for that. He's an adult human being. So I'm not his you know, his handler. I'm certainly not somebody who's going to impose your thinking upon him. I am here to act on his behalf and a legal capacity to the degree he wishes. And that is it.

59:19 Speaker 1: So so what the photo thing, I actually wasn't even to touch that, But I mean, could you at least agree that probably wasn't the best decision.

59:33 Speaker 3: And but maybe it does.

59:35 Speaker 1: Maybe it was just a bad like you know, like you said out late the night before.

59:41 Speaker 2: He was asked to hype the UAPDF didn't have money, and he was asked frankly, to hype their organization, hype the event. We need hype because they're always desperate for money. There is a degree to which it is griff.

59:53 Speaker 3: I mean lily in the name right, well.

59:57 Speaker 2: I mean you know they had to name it that and they're five ohc three obviously four I believe, which is collecting money to give the people, you know, to influence people. So they're a lobbying organization essentially, although they claim not to do lobbying whatever we'll see. But but yeah, so they you know, so he holds up this photo. I agree the photo was. I thought it was a water tank or something, because you know, I've flown over the Southwest. I used to live in Phoenix. I'm flying around all the time.

1:00:22 Speaker 2: It looked like a water tank. I don't know, But you know, what is the UFO supposed to look like on the ground from above? Maybe like a water tank? Like I fucking don't know what these things look like. I think he was just encouraged to be provocative by these morons. He was tired and exhausted because of their particular schedule. I don't think. I don't. I think he was curious about the photo. Maybe I don't. I don't know. Maybe you know, I really don't know, but i'd never seen it. But his point was again, as you know, anybody with any reason could see, was simply to say, look, guys, you know there's photos that commercial pilots and other people get.

1:00:57 Speaker 2: We should have a place that's probably not arrow to resolve all of that stuff. I had been under the misimpression that actually the FA or somebody had like a center for sending in anomalist photos. I thought that had already been done. But I believe that's not correct. I believe that that turned out to be true, not true. So as I was sitting there, I was like, gee, I thought, I thought there was already this, you know, but I understood the point of it, and he meant it with the best of intent. He wasn't trying to discredit the field or himself obviously, he was just extremely tired trying to be you know, get some notorieties done.

1:01:32 Speaker 2: And you know, then you had all this stuff with the you know, Eric Davis and the four different aliens.

1:01:37 Speaker 3: That was wild.

1:01:40 Speaker 2: It was. I was really surprised that no major media was like, wait a minute, what are you saying here?

1:01:44 Speaker 1: I mean, that was and let me ask you, because again you're not You're self admitted that you're not really one for like, you don't the research.

1:01:56 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't care about your aliens.

1:01:58 Speaker 1: Right now, there is something called the Wilson Do you know about the Wilson Davis memo? Yeah, of course, yeah, okay, okay, so you do know, But so a guy who writes allegedly because still I don't know why he wasn't asked right then and there, bro, did you write these notes? Let's confirm it right now, because if so, there's a lot of I mean, if that, if that meeting actually happened in his document, if if he would say under some sort of congressional I thought for sure that we were at that's what we were going to get, but instead he's talking about a species of aliens.

1:02:40 Speaker 3: And and sure, I.

1:02:41 Speaker 1: Feel like we went from it went from very nuts and bolts to very not nuts and bolts very quickly.

1:02:51 Speaker 2: Look, you know, yeah I was I didn't have no or listen, there was no preparation in any run through that I could tell. It was very There was no run through for the event that I was participant of. Or two. I know that they've made efforts to you know, get the room. They screwed up the sound, but that's understandable because of you know, technical difficulties happened under the best circumstances. They happened just a while ago and on the show. But but yeah, you know, I don't know what to make of it.

1:03:20 Speaker 2: I don't know what the intent was. I wasn't responsible for the organization. Generally speaking, I thought the strategy behind it was strange. As a participant, I was just seeing it, you know, because you have a miss smash of here's a photo and here's Aliens and all this crap, and then you know, a viy lobe And he was very interesting to listen to. But he went on quite a bit, and I was like, wow, is he going I didn't know if I was risk one for twenty you know, I thought everybody was gonna be on for ten, twelve minutes, fifteen minutes, but he went on at length and it was It was actually very interesting, and I have you know, he's a very interesting and a very charming person.

1:03:51 Speaker 2: You know so well. I mean, maybe you.

1:03:53 Speaker 3: Don't like him, but I didn't say that, didn't say okay, I listen. I just had him here.

1:03:59 Speaker 2: He was just okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I apologize. So I apologize to you and Dovulo, but I have no discreditor. And also he's a very nice person, so you know, so so I don't under I didn't understand the strategy of the event, but it seemed to be you know, typically a mishmash of ideas and people, and uh that was it. And I actually left around right after lou held the photo up. I for no reason but coincidence, I took a break. There was a break, and I got out of the room. I think I might have left on cam.

1:04:30 Speaker 2: I don't know, because I needed to catch a plane and frankly, I just wanted to go. You know, I was tired. I was unhappy with those people and the way it was organized and all the stress and what they communicated to me the week before on behalf of Lunatic, So I was just not having it. And uh, I just rolled out, got my suitcase, went to the airport. I had a beer and worked on legal work. And then it got even weirder on the plane, but you know, because of the staff of the photo and some idiotic communications with those dummies.

1:04:59 Speaker 2: So anyway, and there's all if necessary to come out, but I don't care. I just I'm just I'm just sick of these people. So so ultimately what happened was is all of that ended, and I didn't know much about it other than there was a you know, issue of the photos. Now I can understand where UAPDF for example, and you know, did not want to at the time, uh issue any positive statement about Lou because maybe they didn't agree with him putting up the photo, or it was too impromptu, or it led to you know, you know, they didn't like it.

1:05:30 Speaker 2: And I get it, and I think Lou regretted showing it because he hadn't vetted it, although his point again was it was an exemplar of anything. He could have held up a rubber ducky and said, look, here's a rubber ducky. Let's find out what it is. You know, it was just meant in good spirit. But it but but in this UFO world, everything you do is micro you know, you're under a microscope, and unfortunately it's very unfortunate. So so then this idea came about. And again I was not part of the logistics of it that they were.

1:05:58 Speaker 2: You know that they were going to read do this skiff and that's fine, Okay, things can be redone. Why not you know, sure, Okay, I may not be able to attend it, but it doesn't seem like a big deal or maybe I could have. You know, I personally wasn't I was just thinking, I don't know if I want to come back to sit outside a room and just be around these lunatics. And then at some point, and I don't know exactly when it was, Luna said that these people have the skiff flu. Now, Joe Mergia came up with something where I think he said he had a post where he was very specific about exactly what Luna said.

1:06:38 Speaker 2: But it was very clearly that she was implying that Luelazondo was sick or avoidant in some way. She didn't really mean really sick. You know, if a person had been really sick, you wouldn't say, well, he just got diagnosed with cancer. You know, he's got skip blu. No, it was really intended to condemn him for failing to appear at her beck and call with three days notice. And I mean, what, That's not the way it works. Maybe for you lunatics and UFO Land you're like, you know, some unemployed idiot, and Oregon's like I would have left everything, dropped everything, go get for God.

1:07:16 Speaker 2: Is because I've been you know, go fuck yourselves. That's not how it works. You've got to be real and you're part of a professional institution, you know, I mean, I mean you're part of an organization that supposed to be the leadership of our country. That's not how you coordinate meetings. I'm sorry if you don't know how to do it. I have a paralegal who could do better than you. Okay.

1:07:36 Speaker 1: So you're saying that there was a lot of misconceptions about how this has has gone down.

1:07:44 Speaker 2: Not misconceptions displies, No, Yes, so they attributed. So she stupidly, impulsively and incorrectly maligned lou and implied that he was the one that caused this snaffho And then she on rogan and did it again. She doubles down why attack Luell was under the guys voluntarily come. He is a volunteer witness, He's a volunteer coordinator. He's a volunteer of all of this. He does not make money from this. He does not even get his expenses repaid except into you know, occasionally if an organization will will repay it.

1:08:22 Speaker 2: Okay, But other than that, he does not profit from this. So he is a volunteer to come before the Congress, and she sent him under the bus. Never asked what you know, never said anything about David Grush. Never if you're implying that, you know, Christopher Mellon didn't show up, I'm sorry, but you know he was probably not feeling well too, and maybe legitimate, you know, a real issue, right, And I don't I don't talk about the medical stuff. I'm just saying people get sick, they get colds. You know they're not feeling that well.

1:08:53 Speaker 2: That's life, right. So they said that lou was the guy who was essentially avoidant of testifying or giving information or participating in this gift. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The date they chose was extraordinarily inconvenience. It's not just flying from Wyoming. He had a commitment. I think of that same near that same time. You know he's been traveling, he's exhausted. I mean, you cannot just tell people show up. I'm the princess and that's what you need to do. That's wrong.

1:09:30 Speaker 2: And then at that point, also let's get into two other points. First of all, why should I have great confidence you're going to not do it again? You did it the first time. You didn't tell us The real reason, which apparently was Dave Grush had some security clearance issue. So well, did he get his security clearance fixed by mid May? Then if he didn't, why did you cancel in April? So nobody is asking these questions. They don't hold themselves to account if the Office of Luna or Burleson or any of those people who are responsible for this had just come forward and said, look, we screwed up.

1:10:07 Speaker 2: There were legislative considerations that were extremely important for us. Some people are sick, you know, things get continued. We're sorry, but we like these people. We will invite them back at a time where it works out for everybody. We apologize for a variety of snapfoos. Everything will be fine. Let's do it again. Instead. Representative Luna on her own initiative, comes out, comes out swinging at luel Azando for no reason and if she has a reason, tell us but now. And then of course she's like as dumb as a rock and says, oh, well, you know I didn't put that.

1:10:42 Speaker 2: It was Loue Alizondo, you idiot. So yeah, I'm not having it with her.

1:10:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was insane because she made the comment about and you know what, I don't defend one one person or another, and I'm not that type of I don't take sides, but I will say she mentioned okay, no, he wanted to, like the person got skiff flu they wanted to sell books but didn't come. I mean, you could have only been talking about Elizondo. And actually, if you watch Rogan's interview with Louelizondo, he repeatedly does say and I will give him this, he repeatedly does not.

1:11:25 Speaker 3: He says, I'm not here to promote the book. I'm here to talk to you.

1:11:30 Speaker 2: So I mean, I mean, look, you know, whenever you're on national media, you are promoting something in your brand, your books or something. I mean, let's not look lose a good person. And you know, if I was on Rogan and I had a book or a frying pan, I'd probably be routing it. But you know, he's he's he really is in there with the intent of telling America this is an issue you need to pay attention to. I'm only going to tell you up to a certain point because I believe I have commitments to the government, and if there's a relieve I will tell more than I can.

1:11:56 Speaker 2: You know more, But that's it. He's just that guy. He's not going to go he will not break the rules to remake the rules. Sorry, you don't like that, go find go find us Snowden to do that. Who cares? But that's not him, so real simple anyway, So she went out of her way to attack him. Now, she is a politician, she's popular. She's always showing herself, you know, with more with Trump or with more prominent people. She's always a firebrand. She's always claiming, you know, Biden, who's close to dead, is responsible for this, and Hillary read this, and Obama this.

1:12:30 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she's supposed to be the get Epstein, We're going to change everything. Meanwhile she's like, oh, I don't know Epstein's fine because no longer convenient. I find she has absolutely no principles and I don't find her very smart. So that's what she did. She did the worst thing to try to ruin intentionally the life of somebody who's just trying to help. I mean, my god, how incompetent. But you know, frankly, because of what happened in the week prior to the April twenty ninth thing, I can tell you that somebody wanted Louel Azando to be subpoenaed.

1:13:08 Speaker 2: I was literally told that he would you know that he could get subpoena. That was like, who gives a shit? I deal with subpoenas every day, you clowns. So look, here's the reality. You know, there are some really terrible people who have no courage. And by the way, u APDF people, you didn't even come out and say anything nice about lou You could have easily come out and said, hey, this was a snaphoo. It wasn't Louela Zondo's fault. But because they were trying to distance themselves from the photograph, they were just like quiet as mice, no support for him back, just just letting him hang out to dry as if he had skiff flew.

1:13:49 Speaker 2: That was disgusting. You have no courage, you have no principles. I don't respect you.

1:13:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think, well, thank you for clearing clearing that up, because I mean, all.

1:14:04 Speaker 2: Right, well I'm done with it. But I will just say this, Look, Loue Alizondo is more than willing to present himself to Congress. Frankly, I would not advise him. My personal advice and you know he's hearing it, and he's heard it before, is that I would not do anything with Luna that isn't public because I don't trust her the way he's been treated, but he feels otherwise. He is still willing to present himself to a skiff to to to do so and to give to I personally think he will come out of there and she'll smash him anyway.

1:14:34 Speaker 2: She'll say he was unhelpful, didn't have the information, was reticent. And remember he can't give anything in a skiff until he is cleared by certain agencies. Just because a member of Congress wants to know something doesn't mean they can inferring the rights of the executive. You know. You can't be like, uh, hi, I'm represent I'm Florida woman representative. I want to know what who are agents are in Poland? Coming here and give me all the names of the agents in Poland. No, you got to go to the CIA or to the you know, whoever the hell you have to go to.

1:15:07 Speaker 2: You've got to go to somebody.

1:15:08 Speaker 3: It doesn't give you a blanket need to know.

1:15:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't give you the right to just know anything. But you want to ask, you your paste? So if she went ahead, so anyway, listen, bottom line comes down to lou is always willing to go in a public setting. If he wants to go on a skiff, I'm going to accompany him. But make no mistake, I'm coming as a lawyer. Subpoena all you want. I could care less and challenge accepted lady, because you've done harm to people. You're scared. You're scared. When I read and hear these reports that the whistleblowers are rolling out not wanting to testify, I'm like, of course not.

1:15:41 Speaker 2: I mean, based on our experience, why would you. You'll be lambasted, You'll be set aside. So of course it's it's a clown show. And she's the head of the task force. Can you imagine such incompetency? Now, this is I'm not. I'm not. I'm not the nice guy. Lou is the nice guy. He'll always be the nice guy. He's probably too nice for his own good. But I'm not the nice guy. And people who know know that when I'm not the nice guy, it's not nice.

1:16:06 Speaker 1: So understood, I mean, and listen, I I'd be if I was in that position, and if if everything you know, if that's exactly, if that's how it went down, I'd be pissed too. And you and I was going to ask, what you know if you had a whistleblower, and like would you would you send them to Congress? Like would you feel safe sending them to Congress? At this point to Luna and I, I you answered obviously with the with the no, it would have to be more public.

1:16:39 Speaker 3: So that that's so.

1:16:40 Speaker 2: I think. I think, Look, look what listen I made. You know, I'm the I'm probably the I'm I don't know if I'm the one who coached her and issuing her first subpoena in this area. But if I have good I think the task force should issue subpoenas. But I think they should grab Colonel Now. I think they should grab James Lakatski. I think they should. I think they should grab other people. David Grush, I think they should grab them all and do it.

1:17:04 Speaker 3: The forty hospital witnesses that the.

1:17:06 Speaker 2: One person they the one person they subpoena, is gonna be the one person who's been coming to Congress for seven years? You moron, I mean, what is wrong with you? So look, you know, look that is weird. Actually that yeah, of course it's weird. Why not look for behind the crevices? Why not look behind the couch. Maybe that's what you just can't It's incredible, it is so disappointing.

1:17:30 Speaker 3: So I have you know ironic that you just brought.

1:17:35 Speaker 1: So there's been online discussion, There's been discussion for quite some time now, including you know, including lou to a degree about this idea of the date, the year twenty twenty seven, end of the world. And listen, I know I want you to be able to rear back on this one because there are people who are saying that they're becoming concerned because people are telling them, you know, that the world is going to end.

1:18:12 Speaker 3: Chris Bledsoe says that the you know, the the Sphinx and.

1:18:18 Speaker 1: The ore Regulus are going to ligne and humans will go through a transformation and.

1:18:25 Speaker 2: It's like a lot to show the leftovers or some.

1:18:28 Speaker 1: Weird shit, right right, So there's been a lot of this kind of stuff out there, and lately, you know, it's kind of taking a turn towards like this apocalyptic scenario.

1:18:40 Speaker 3: What's going on?

1:18:42 Speaker 2: Listen, I have heard all the dates. I mean, I don't know all the dates. But first of all, let me just point out for your audience a problem I have. Let's say, somebody came to you and I said to you, hey, you know I have some bad news. You know, something's going to happen in twenty twenty seven. Or let's say let's go back to nine to eleven. Right, let's say somebody came up to the CIA or FBI and said, guys, something is done right in this that analogy, right, But let's say somebody came and said something's gonna happen, right, wouldn't you want to know, like more precisely, you know, somebody came up to me and said, hey, guys, we're gonna have some terrors.

1:19:23 Speaker 2: They're gonna jump in some planes, and we're gonna a lot of chatter. I would be like, can you tell me at least if it's going to be on a Tuesday. Can you tell me if it's going to be on a federal holiday?

1:19:33 Speaker 1: You know?

1:19:33 Speaker 2: Do I have to do a guessing game? So this idea of twenty twenty seven is so asinine? Or any of these dates, whoever is the genius behind all of these dates, or any single one of them, could you be more precise? I assume if it is a comet, a meteor, the sun blowing up, ghosts showing up in our dimension whatever, you wouldn't know it would be. No, Oh, it's to be August twelfth at two thirty two pm. I guess I'll cancel my appointment, you know. And I don't see any behaviors of anybody acting differently than they should be, unless they anticipate living a long and prosperous life.

1:20:12 Speaker 2: I just am finishing the build of a duplex, put a metal roof on it so it could last one hundred years or fifty years. I'm planning for next year. I've set trial dates. Lou Alzando's up at a bar and trying to do a business so he can help the people in his community because it's a small town and it needs more business and employment. None of these people are acting like it's the end of the world, So I don't know comes from. Certainly, I probably asked people about various dates. I got to tell you there.

1:20:44 Speaker 2: I will give to one thing, but one funny story I had in somebody, and they didn't really I don't remember they gave me a date, but I do remember they were telling me some weird story about like a blue planet with blue souls or I don't even know what it was. It was super weird. The guy was a nice guy. I'm not trying to be mean to him. I'm just saying, you know, I've heard all these weird stories and I don't put one bit of faith on them. What's happened is, unfortunately, you know, there's a particular person, a guy named Jonathan Davies.

1:21:09 Speaker 2: I believe he is a lunat idiot of who's the head of Unhidden and has a board member of Jay Stratton, who certainly hates me for certain reasons. And uh, you know, so they yeah and so and Jay, if you're out there, you know what I mean. So I'm just telling you that these lunatics go behind the scenes. And people have told me many times that I've been discredited, said to be an intelligence agent, said to be, you know, disingenuous. I need to be, you know, I don't even know what the rumors are. They're so weird.

1:21:38 Speaker 2: I'm an alien. I mean, there's so these people are such nerds. I mean, sorry, there's such nerds. I just can't help it. I don't mind nerds, but but you know, I mean they're just weers. They're trolls. They're disgusting, and so do I believe there's any date of impending apocalypse. Please don't call I love. I've had people call me in the nicest ways and trying to ask the guys, is there something happening. There's nothing happening that I know. I do think we have to worry. I do think we have to worry about a new COVID variant or you know, bird flu.

1:22:07 Speaker 2: I think we have to worry about Putin deciding, you know, he's the king of the world and destroying everything. I have to worry about Taiwan, I have to. I think we have to worry about Islami jihadism in Pakistan and maybe a bomb going a rant or a dirty bomb. I think we have to worry about genetically modified organisms. Perhaps, you know, there's a lot of things we really have to worry about prosaic and certainly the drones are very very curious. I think we have to switch our immediate attention to them.

1:22:30 Speaker 2: But I do not think there is any apocalyptic event. I think that's garbage. But I would just say that if there were an apocalyptic date, and if anybody were spreading that rumor, and if that rumor were presented to Congress, it would be colonel call now.

1:22:43 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, so you are not messaging, you're not talking about any dates.

1:22:53 Speaker 2: Let me be extraordinarily clear again. There is no date I am aware of, right, no date, not even a year that I have any reason to believe at all there is any apocalyptic event forthcoming. Okay, none, zero, no, no date, no doom. I know you like it because it gives meaning to your lives or some fascination or reified that the aliens are going to come and I'm going to be transported to you know, to visit my grandparents in the past or whatever the fuck you stupid thing. But there is no dates of apocalypse, and I don't believe.

1:23:29 Speaker 2: I don't believe in any of it. I think it's weird. I'm not saying it's not possible, because I have to accept there are always a possibility that maybe something could happen. And so, for example, if doctor via Roell's work is true that there are these transients, and you know, I mean, I'm going to give it a possibility that you know, that anything is possible, and we have had I mean, remember, I don't know how long ago, but there was a comment that hit of or yeah, a meteor com I don't know.

1:23:54 Speaker 3: What it was hit Russia.

1:23:56 Speaker 2: Russia is not the Tungusta one, but it was the other one that was you know, ten years ago.

1:24:01 Speaker 3: Or something like that. Yeah, there's video of it.

1:24:03 Speaker 2: Right, And I mean I'm sure, I wish I'm sure if somebody wouldn't like to have known. I think people got hurt, you know. But yeah, but so so there are things like that that worry should worry us.

1:24:13 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be a fucking wouldn't that be just the most ironic. We're like, we're, you know, the New Year twenty twenty seven hits and a month later, you know, we find out like, oh shit, we're gonna get smacked by the by this.

1:24:29 Speaker 2: You know, if you if you believe that, then please sell me your stocks a ten percent of value and we'll be well.

1:24:36 Speaker 1: No, the irony is if it really did happen, and it was, you know what I mean, and all of a sudden, we're just like, ah, fuck, maybe we shouldn't have uh maybe you know, maybe we shouldn't have willed this into existence.

1:24:49 Speaker 2: Well I mean look, I mean, oh please, I think that's all nonsense. I mean, look, if there's advanced species out there coming to visit. I mean, why would you come and just roy like the ants, you know, I find it just phenomenally yeah, you know looks so you know, if there's something, I mean, there could always be a meteor comment, you know, whatever. These things are flying around. We found one traversy and recently through the solar system quite large. I don't think, you know, it's not coming our way, but I mean I think there's a you know, I think what's going on here is the psychology of people want some doom to energate, you know, enervate them and so on.

1:25:28 Speaker 2: But but you know, that's my hypothesis. I don't see any reason to panic about anything. I think these are just the rumor mill. And you know they've always tried, you know, these lunatics online try to malign me. They want me to stay quiet, but I've you know, and honestly it's only because I've honored lou who generally turns the other cheek, never says anything negative about anyone. Even with Luna, he was quite respectful and wanted to make peace, and he was just saying, look, here's the truth he inadvertently released.

1:26:02 Speaker 2: But that's public stuff anyway, it's silly, but but there is no piece to be had, and uh because not at least at least I don't see any indications from Representative Luna that she wants to actually communicate directly. She's always like, my phone number is there? It's like what I mean? I mean what you have? You can get loose phone number in ten seconds, right? You know?

1:26:30 Speaker 1: Well, I think there are bad actors in Congress because I know that after the November hearing, I walked I specifically walked one of the nuclear witnesses, Bob Sallie. I walked him into Nancy Mays's office, who chaired that very hearing that we both sat through, and she I have her on camera saying that she was going to fight for a UFO and nukes hearing, and the next week, literally the next week, she's battling the trans community and loses all credibility with normal people because no one wants to engage her now.

1:27:16 Speaker 1: But I think that she was I think that that hearing was a way to gather certain it was a way to red team certain people.

1:27:26 Speaker 2: Look, I don't know about that. You're welcome to have it. I don't have any opinion about Mace I don't, and that's fine. I mean, I you know, it's a mixed issue on that. But all I can say is, you know, the reality is is that lou is a good person, happy to work with whoever wants to work with him. You have to just be reasonable, provide regular notice. You know, I suspect it, certainly. I would love is, you know, him to be compensated at least for his expenses. But you know he's eaten it before, as you can eat it again, you know.

1:28:01 Speaker 2: But because he doesn't get a congressional stipend to travel and live and all that crap, go back and forth from Florida and cause chaos. But I'm not here to roll over and say, uh, you know that this is that this is an equal Uh you know that this is just a snafoo, and it's a you know, equally wrong by both sides. This is one hundred percent wrong by Luna. She's in temperate, she slams everybody. Her brand is to make everybody terrible, to show herself with guns. It's just it is, it is really unfortunate.

1:28:37 Speaker 2: And it's not because I hate Republicans. I'm kind of a probably a Reagan Republican. I don't know if there's probably seven of us left in the country. Yeah, you know, so, uh you know. I I don't love the Democrats and a lot of their policies, although I do like some of them, of course. And but but regardless, this has been a She is responsible. She has to take responsibility. She's the head of the task force forever, long of that lasts. And I to threaten a witness with a subpoena, first of all, it's no threat.

1:29:12 Speaker 2: She won't And I think she has very limited chances of ascertaining anything because she is so she comes with such bad will you know when you when you when you bring people into a meeting, you don't threaten them to bring them in. Do you understand this? I mean, does nobody get it? You don't lambass people when you want their cooperation. I no longer I don't care about Luna's cooperation or thoughts or beliefs or anything else. I'm not afraid of her. I don't respect her. I don't like what she's done, and I tell it to her face.

1:29:43 Speaker 2: And if we're in a public hearing, she's got me to deal with too. So, uh you know, the reality of it is this is absolute insanity, and it really begs the question of what the hell is going on? You know, clearly there is some situation happening with UAP, the UFOs, possibly at HI. There's some there there. I am that I am with you, you know, by a preponderance of the evidence, fifty one percent, maybe even seventy percent. All right, I'm with this idea that there's an investigation that needs to be had, but it can't be with these incompetent people, and Dave Grush is not one of the people.

1:30:23 Speaker 2: I am sorry, Get lawyers, get assistant US attorneys, get real attorneys to pursue and get subpoenas issued, and hold a kind of a church commission or something where where they can investigate the truth. It's not that I don't think Dave Grush has told important truths, but my experience with him behind the scenes has been very negative. And I made that very clear, very clear. Don't ever ever try to mess with me, and my.

1:30:55 Speaker 3: Client understood, understood.

1:30:57 Speaker 1: Yeah no, And I think that's I think, at least the way you know you represent you, I think it's I think you're you're you're.

1:31:08 Speaker 3: There's a big battle there. It's not a big battle.

1:31:10 Speaker 1: But it's a big it's it's it is a big task to come into this and kind of be exposed to all of it at hot at the one of the highest levels. Again, he is a very well known person. Do you remember do you remember I'm not sure if he like if he filled you in on some of the the post twenty seventeen stuff, but do you remember to the Stars Academy?

1:31:37 Speaker 2: Sure?

1:31:37 Speaker 1: Okay, so I got a viewer not a viewer question, but a viewer question. But in twenty seventeen, uh, Tom DeLong stood on stage and said, we are going to be building one of these things to entice investors. You know, mister Ella's was a member of this organization. I'm not saying that he is responsible. Have they encountered any issues with the SEC about an effort like this? And what does what do you think about the claims that this was more of a techno scam.

1:32:20 Speaker 2: I have no opinion upond to the Stars Academy. I don't know about their financial you know, whatever was going on, I know I will say I Lou you know, left became a part of that moved. His tenure there was cut short. He suffered greatly. I don't think intentionally and I don't know, but it was not a positive experience. I mean, I don't think it was ultimately positive. Think there were many good people. It just didn't work out. And you know, that's all I know about it. I don't know, you know, I've I've heard it.

1:32:54 Speaker 2: I was watching somebody I don't recall who. It was a speech by how put off somebody linked to it. I was like, okay, you watch it. It was a it was okay, speech about from twenty eighteen or something about the It mentioned to the Stars Academy and some efforts that they were making. I don't know what they're thinking was. I don't know what it was about. I could just say that whatever managerial fiduciary duties that were owed to that company and its investors has zero to do with the Luella Zondo so to that extent, I don't know.

1:33:27 Speaker 2: You know, he was just an employee and you know, unfortunately when when it collapsed, I think he suffered a lot. But other than that, I don't really have any information.

1:33:39 Speaker 3: Okay of that.

1:33:40 Speaker 1: And then that's and that's absolutely fair. Beyond you know, the legal and political battles. You know, what's the human toll of working in the UFO disclosure space as an attorney, and how is this journey affected you personally? What drives you to keep pushing forward alongside LOO in such a high stakes mission.

1:34:04 Speaker 2: I think that's I appreciate your question. I think that's your characterization of it, and I understand why you frame it that way. I'm a little different, you know. I'm happy being an attorney, a litigator. I have investments, I have properties, I have business partners wonderful. I have a wonderful wife and family. I'm curious. I like to read. I like to you know, do martial arts. You know when I when my body allows it, I like, I just want to kickboxing today. You know, got punched in the face a couple of times.

1:34:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I love it. I'll watch the UFC tonight, you know, and tough with them. You know, I'm gonna have fun. I'm gonna go with Ddpchmives of Beast too. But I'm gonna go, you know.

1:34:40 Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm with you.

1:34:43 Speaker 2: But but the bottom line is, no, there's so many things to do in life. This is not my I do not These UFO people all in some way see themselves ending up is the architect of ufology or the lawyer for ufology or this for that, I don't see that at all. I think this is a government problem, a scientific problem, a technical social problem, political problem, a media problem. We need to approach it thoughtfully and resolve it. So for me, you know, I'm going to go about living my life. I'm happy to represent individuals as needed, but I'm not going to compromise myself and my integrity as an attorney as well as just as a human being on the altar of aliens.

1:35:27 Speaker 2: If they want to visit with me, I'm happy to do so. But the only people, by the way, who bothered the hell out of me in this field have been the people in it, not the aliens. And you know, and to that extent, I mean, you know, frankly, this is even though it seems like the stakes are high, because you know, there's an ontology and the science behind it that would have tremendous implications for humanity. Again, I do not feel the humans are particularly prepared. They're not good enough, I means, are going to fix this.

1:36:01 Speaker 2: So I go back to fix ourselves and learn the science and figure out what's going on. It's pretty simple.

1:36:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe instead of looking we need to start looking in right.

1:36:10 Speaker 2: Look in, be a better person, tell the truth, Stop letting the jackasses out their control. Who you talk to, what your narrative is, what you say, Stop judging people so quickly, Stop telling people that they're going to subpoena them, you knit with, you know, just be a decent human being. There are some decent human beings, but there's few and far between, unfortunately, and there's a lot of people who compromise their ethics and will not tell truth to power. Despite being educated and having read all the right books, they will not do so because fundamentally they want something out of this, because they have some sort of hollow emptiness.

1:36:47 Speaker 2: I come in with the full life, I leave with the full life. So I'll represent the people who want representation in whatever way. When there's an actual legal issue in front of me, I'll attack it as I need to. And to the sense that representative of Luna, you know, has has has created a legal issue, well, she's going to get one back. And I'm going to say, if you're going to subpoena lou there are other people.

1:37:09 Speaker 1: To subpoena as well, like and you named so like I said, let's go Jim Lekatski, who open I don't.

1:37:17 Speaker 2: By the way, the only reason I say James I heard him on webinars, But I never aways like, why isn't everybody like going, wait, hey, dude, come back, you know get it's a poena Luna. Why don't you ask the guy who said he went inside of there was something about being inside of the UFO that.

1:37:33 Speaker 3: Somebody got I'm fucking talking about They're not.

1:37:37 Speaker 2: I have a plenty of other people I can point too, but I don't know these people and what they did and you know, in reality, and and what their roles are. And uh, I'm sure there's bunches of people that would be better, you know who where you could actually learn information at an operational level. However, I think all of them, if they are part of the national security in any way, need to get clearance. And if not that you have a you're going to have a battle between the Congress and the executive.

1:38:04 Speaker 2: But you know, to Congress saying appropriately, hey, we want these people to tell us their truth, the executives saying no, that's executive privilege. The unitary executive don't get to learn that, and then we have to have that that that debate, and and and by the way, I mean, you know, nobody holds Congress has done jack Ship and Luna. You've done nothing except threating. Louel was on it with the sub poenut, you know, I mean, this is insane. How are we going to get to the bottom of this? Use your power for good?

1:38:33 Speaker 2: This is not the good. You've just decided to lambast somebody because you were on Joe Rogan and poor Joe Rogan. I mean, you know, he's got all his curiosities. You know, he doesn't know and and he entertains these people, you know, and.

1:38:48 Speaker 1: Obviously she's easy on the eyes and definitely Congress favor it.

1:38:54 Speaker 2: You know, it really grosses me out when people are like, oh god, you know, because I heard people say, oh, she's so pretty, she's so pretty. I mean, was in a room if there were people telling me how attractive she was and she I'm sure she loves to hear it.

1:39:05 Speaker 1: You know.

1:39:05 Speaker 2: But you're not there as the maximum representative.

1:39:09 Speaker 3: Of You're there as the representative of Florida.

1:39:12 Speaker 2: Not right. You're there to be a decent human being and stop stop punishing everybody who has a different view of life. I don't agree with Biden particularly, or a Hillary or I like Obama, but you know, I don't agree with some of the dude with many of the Democrat platforms, but I'm not going to impose upon them some that they're terrible people. You know, maybe maybe they were. There could be, you know, wrongs that were done, but this is not the way to proceed, and not to do it to people you're inviting to an event to give you information to help you do whatever it is you believe your job is.

1:39:46 Speaker 2: I don't know what she thinks her job is. She's taking on a wide compass. So far, I don't know that what she's resolved. Maybe she has had some successes. I'm I'm not particularly I'm not as fat. I like JFK's ideas and his speeches, and you know, he's handsome and it was the Camelot and all that. I love that, And if and if he was assassinated by CIA or something like that, that's extraordinarily unfortunate and important to the historical record. All that said is true. But you know, the UAP issue to me and the drone issue are right now and they've been set on the back burner, and you've ambassador the people who came willingly on their own dime, often to to do the right thing for your own publicity benefit.

1:40:34 Speaker 2: I will see you soon.

1:40:37 Speaker 3: Wow.

1:40:39 Speaker 1: One last thing, because I I, uh, we overshot the time here, sure, but I'm having such a good time.

1:40:47 Speaker 3: I mean, you're this is wonderful.

1:40:49 Speaker 1: But you know, she she also made a claim and I don't want to make this about Luna, I really don't, but since it's here, I mean, she made a claim about interdimensional beings in the same breath as this whole skiff flute thing, and she said she has seen she saw evidence that that suggested that these things are interdimensional.

1:41:16 Speaker 1: If she has that kind of evidence somewhere, how do we, the people or someone like yourself, who is you know, biting at the champion, how do we get that stuff out? I mean, you can't just go on an internationally syndicated, the biggest podcast in the world and say you have you've seen evidence of interdimensional beings that operate out of outside of space in time and then just move on. I mean, that's a fucking huge claim.

1:41:47 Speaker 2: Is there a way these interdimensional beings can take her with them. You know. Look, I don't know.

1:41:58 Speaker 1: I would hate to be I would hate to be an attorney fighting you in a courtroom.

1:42:08 Speaker 2: Generally speaking with the posing counsel. I'm very very polite, and we try to work together when I can, if they're reasonable. That's the best way to do it. And we're here to fight for truth, not for just fighting for our egos or whatever it happens to be. There's a bit of that, of course, but that's not why. Look, I don't know what she's talking about interdimensional beings. I don't think she could, you know, I don't. I have no interest. I mean, that's an interesting idea. She's prone to provocative claims.

1:42:34 Speaker 2: She finds herself as an attention seeking person. Whatever evidence. I mean. That rule to require is you know, some significant understanding. I have no all knowledge of that. If there are interdimensional beings, I don't know really what good that does it. I'm not you know, I've only exist, you know, I exist in the four dimensions right now, and that's it. So that's all that I know. Not against the possibility, and it's very interesting, but I do not try her to transmit, you know, whether there were jelly beans and a jelly you know, in a jar.

1:43:05 Speaker 2: You know, I have no interest in what she has to say. I don't believe any of it. Wherever her sources are probably in an office next door or something, who knows, and I have just no I just I just can't take her seriously. Again, she could have a secret for all the UFOs, you know, somewhere in Florida. There's a lot of weird people there. But you know, but I don't accredit that with anything. You know, It's funny because you know, in the UFO world, they're like, oh God, don't piss her off. Don't piss her off.

1:43:34 Speaker 2: It's like, you guys have no standards. You're willing to let yourselves go to compromise any principle you're afraid, and it's it's it's it's ridiculous. And because she's attractive, or because she's outspoken, or because she's on your side.

1:43:48 Speaker 1: I will say that I do. I do agree with you there. You know, for for ninety plus years, the government was the enemy, let's say, quote unquote, and now all of a sudden, you know, we we have a couple representatives, a couple senators, a couple people in government that are showing interests, and now all of a sudden we hang on their every breadth, their every word. When it's the same government, it's the same.

1:44:21 Speaker 2: Look bird, look. Look. First of all, Eric Burlston is a gentleman and a nice person. He's tried to mediate this, and to his credit, I'm glad for that. I don't think it'll work good. But he's a great guy. Timber Chat, I think as well. So you know, he's interested in this. It seems like from his heart, you know, that's where this interest comes from. I believe mister Garcia. I've never represented Garcia, I've never met him, but I believe I've heard good things that he's you know, has good intentions.

1:44:47 Speaker 2: You know. There are senators too. Booker I think is interested in some ways. Certainly it's a state, you know, New Jersey. I don't know, you know, I wish. I think there's a degree of real interest. But the politicians don't have to be our enemies. But neither should we. You know, count how to them and kneel before them as if they're just all powerful. And the people who are part of the orbs as I will call them, are constantly using their proximity without being lobby ast somehow to Congress people to secure notoriety funding whatever.

1:45:21 Speaker 2: Well, sorry, there's a degree to which that does seem like drifting, okay, and yeah, yeah, so no, I do think that there needs to be an organization to effectively lobby. And I think lobbying is when it's registered and appropriate, correct, so that you know, so that Congress becomes informed and interested. I'm not against any of them, but the representatives serve us. Stop being so weak that you you know, get a broader constituency, do the poor go talk to other representatives who are curious about this from a religious perspective, a personal perspective.

1:45:57 Speaker 2: You know, there's five hundred and thirty five of them. I'm sure some of them have been abducted by aliens but won't say it or whatever, you know what I mean, like like, there's got to be somebody out there. You know, we need better people and more of them, and it needs to be bipartisan. It can't be continually with just the Republicans. They haven't been successful. They can't find Epstein's murder, you know, despite whatever I mean, they can't find his collaborators. They can't do you know. Look, I mean it's all nonsense, so correctly, Yeah, they need to get by.

1:46:26 Speaker 2: The ufology needs a broader set of representatives and senators who are interested in it. I don't believe that the UAP Disclosure Act, you know that everybody's like, oh gosh, you got to support it, you got to support it. I talked to people who are like, you got to support it. Him like who wrote it? They're like, we have no idea it was call him now with some help from who knows who? And you know, and he's been operating behind the scenes. I see guy that he is. He's I had a terrible set of experiences with him.

1:46:55 Speaker 1: I was going to say, do you think this is he's problematics.

1:47:01 Speaker 2: I absolutely think he's problematic and.

1:47:04 Speaker 3: The topic where it's going or you.

1:47:06 Speaker 2: Know, he's a very intelligent person, right, and so I hold you, if you're intelligent like that to a higher not lower standard. Okay, you have a better standard. And unfortunately I think he's you know, I don't know why. For example, you know, rather than saying, let's as a community look at legislation, and first of all, there should be investigation before legislation, and we haven't even done any investigation. They've not issued one suboena in Congress except for Louelli Zonda apparently, and then they're going in passing legislation.

1:47:43 Speaker 2: Are you insane? Right? Don't do that. There should be a public and community investigation prior to passing legislation that is appropriate to what is discovered according to the facts. This is government one oh one, unless yes, you have private interests guiding themselves to some nirvana which you know, please support, please support, support. No, it should be public, The drafting should be public, the people should be public, the upologies community. We should say we collaborate together on a piece of legislation that we think will hit the low hanging fruit and gives us the best chance of either having people who are whistleblowers or what do you want to call them, or government people or non government people be securing their property, provide testimony under oath, and help us determine and also fund the science to see if there are things that have been excluded.

1:48:39 Speaker 2: You know, I'm you know from our understanding, whether in physics or astronomy, it doesn't mean this is what should happen, and it should be done openly, but not in secret five oh one C three, sending memos back and forth. I have seen them, so that you can sneak in the door and then go tell a congressman, just put this in, you know, and do this. And they don't know the topic, they don't have the legislative staff who are familiar with it, so they're just they're like, who's this? What's this? Okay?

1:49:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, drones? Sure you know. Now this isn't exactly the wrong way to do things, informed and educated and open, you know, why are we a try? Why do you? Why do you and I'm telling you I've seen this so many times? Why do you allow you? Demand government transparency, Demand that the government tell you about your UFO? Where are the aliens? Who knows what? And then the process to do that is hidden? It is absurd. Bring it to the community forefront. Bring it draft legislation together in a a in a congress, you know, in a like a constitutional congress, we'll call it a constitutional UFO congress, where legislation is proposed, voted upon, suggested, And then you take it as a community and you say, Congress, this is what we're looking to do.

1:50:01 Speaker 2: Would you do it? Instead? It's drafted behind the scenes by people with selfish interests aligned to take through eminent domain. Perhaps at least some people fear their property and their understanding and what they've worked towards.

1:50:14 Speaker 1: No.

1:50:15 Speaker 2: And plus the government, if there were UFOs, has every right to day to walk in and take it. It's not for absence of legislation, it's absence for willpower. So I'm telling you my truth as I understand it. I could be wrong. If you've change, I'm willing to change my mind. But I do not see goodwill.

1:50:33 Speaker 3: Have you seen?

1:50:35 Speaker 1: Were you in attendance at south By Southwest for that?

1:50:39 Speaker 3: The screening of I was not? No no, So you didn't see the film yet?

1:50:44 Speaker 2: No, no, no, But the trailer was really phenomenal.

1:50:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna.

1:50:48 Speaker 1: I haven't saying it either, but I know that people are talking about it and saying that, you know, it could bring a general public uh like fever pitch, you know, and generate interests and listen.

1:51:08 Speaker 3: I hope it.

1:51:09 Speaker 1: I hope it does, but it's also calling for that mass amnesty, and I.

1:51:14 Speaker 3: Just don't think that that's the way to go.

1:51:16 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I've not seen the movie, so I don't know that it makes it all. Yeah, you know, I just saw the trailer and thought it was really cool.

1:51:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it does look good.

1:51:25 Speaker 2: Aside from being night for the trailer, that's it. You know, I'm looking at when it gets out awesome. And I do think it could make a really big impact. You know, it's rare that a documentary really loves the needle in the popular culture. But there were some like bullying for Columbine, I think, and uh, you know Faarnheit and like there were some in the past and this could do the same. And I'm you know, I think we need more media. You know, I'm a big fan. I mean, it's that kind of silly. But you know, I've been watching The Resident Alien.

1:51:54 Speaker 1: Sh I literally just watched the last episode of season four.

1:52:00 Speaker 2: Are the only person the people who I like. I like the actor Alan whatever, the main act alien. The alien.

1:52:07 Speaker 3: So good.

1:52:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's super awesome. And then the sheriff is fun. And the other sheriff that have a female character. There's two people, they're all they're all cool. It's so much a fan and other great actors because they make me believe it, you know, but of some of the whininess on the show. But de bite that it's a wonderful show and it's fun, and so more media, you know, whether it's science fiction, more books and more science itself, right, and more consideration and more respect should be accorded. You can't just dismiss things.

1:52:37 Speaker 2: Not everybody could be telling a lie and creating confabulations. People might be mistaken. It's possible on things, but overall, I think the body of evidence says we should take this seriously. The problem is is we're stuck with the stigma, which has probably been engineered to a large extent. There's also most of us have not had personal experience with alien I never worry about being acted. I hope they do at some point take me because I can't stand all these people here, and everybody says, oh god, it could be terrible.

1:53:06 Speaker 2: It's like nothing could be worse than what I see with people. So I say the Bay basis like literal people's problems. So I'm very positive towards I personally. You know, if there is intelligent life and it's come to visit us, I do hope we you know, I don't know how they would communicate with us, because you know, it's hard to understand the mind of something else. But whatever it is, I think it's interesting and I think we should be positive towards it. And I'm not saying it's all good. I don't know.

1:53:36 Speaker 2: You know, they could come here and you know, want to turn us into a parking lot, like you know, Douglas Adams and the hitchhikers or whatever it was. I forget what it was, but you know, they could be wanting to do something weird. But I personally don't see it. I'm a fan of the optimism, and I think we can fix our political institutions. But the internal deceit and corruptions and coercion and all this garbage for such an abstract topic is bizarre to me. And we should just get to nuts and bolts, treat each other recently well, do things collaboratively.

1:54:08 Speaker 2: Maybe have that Constitutional Congress for some bill that could be presented. You know, there's also uh Sehn Munger, a lawyer. He had the oh gosh, the Registrate Registry Act, and I thought that was good. I'm open to that as an idea, but people have suppressed it, by the way. They've totally told you know, I'll just say people suppress it even you know, they try to you know, they just they can't can't help but but but want to please certain people or be afraid of certain people, and that's why that those other alternative voices get suppressed.

1:54:41 Speaker 2: It's disgusting. I find it reprehensible if so.

1:54:47 Speaker 1: Like what we'll end here. But and I really again, I thank you for time. And you know i'd love to have I'd fly Lou here to bost.

1:54:56 Speaker 2: Sorry, buddy, I you know you could. No, every everybody wants to go.

1:55:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, not asking you, I'm saying, unlike Congress, I would, I would pay for his expenses.

1:55:10 Speaker 3: So Lou, if you do see this, I'd love that. I don't.

1:55:12 Speaker 2: I don't think what's preventing him from going from Congress is you know a t I don't. I'm just saying, you know, and I appreciate you offering to to to host him. A very generous person with his time and and.

1:55:25 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I really liked his UH.

1:55:29 Speaker 1: I think that's the last conversation I watched of his UH was when he did Chris Ramsey.

1:55:33 Speaker 3: I thought it was really well done and really really fun.

1:55:36 Speaker 1: But so if if if if there's a whistleblower out there, if there's someone who's worked in some sort of legacy program and they they want to be represented by someone who's going to have their best interest at heart. Uh would you be at there? You know, would you take their case? Would you take them on?

1:56:01 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, because I would have to evaluate it. You know, I only have so much time. But not just that, you know, you have to have both, you know. I believe in disclosure as a whole, and so I do think that anybody, you know, I'd have to find somebody whose interest is obviously towards disclosure. That said, I would imagine that I would also want people who have a respect for any security that might be associated, you know. I mean, if you want to run to you know, Russia and disclose there, I'm not going to help you commit any kind of crime, and you know, and I'm going to protect you and your personal issue interest rather.

1:56:40 Speaker 2: But yes, I mean, if people feel that they need legal representation, whether for myself or certainly from other people, go get it. And you know, and if you think you can't afford it, well I am pro bono and always happy to do that kind of thing. And I've talked to many people in the community and not in often sometimes in you know, legal ways, sometimes not, but you know, I'm always happy to help. So, you know, for people who are who really feel they're in a bind, and I've talked to some and I've helped them as i can.

1:57:11 Speaker 2: I don't think the threat is from death threats. I don't think the threat is from legal prescriptions. Although those with commitments to the government should take them seriously, because like you should take any promise seriously. You know, even if you disagree with it, you have to take it seriously, and then you deal with it through the proper channels, and then you attend to things. This is the way a system is designed to work. Going around the system to fix it breaks the system. It is the problem.

1:57:39 Speaker 2: So unfortunately, Congress right now is the red block. It's part of the system that has inhibited this or at least not taking it as seriously as it could. But you can see why. So as long as you're coming in good faith and you want to do something positive, and you really have a legal issue, and you can tolerate the fact that you know, I'm not everybody's cup of tea over my client. I'm going to go and help you up to what you want. But once it crosses a line. I do take this as you know, I take my role as a lawyer seriously.

1:58:14 Speaker 2: I'm not a public spokesperson. I don't speak for Loue Alizondo. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything under the sun. He likes one things I like different. You know, he's a good person. I don't want. I am not. I am not a puppet or a spokesperson, and I don't care to be associated with people because they're UFO glitterati. I just don't give a damn about that. So I'm here to do legal work when and where necessary in limited moments, and you know, that's it. So, you know, unfortunately I've been called back up.

1:58:47 Speaker 2: I feel like you know the movies where you know the ex soldier you know, is like in a cabin in the woods, and then all of a sudden the car drives up and it's like you got to come back, you know, Zach, and you know, help with this nonsense. I'm like, how did this even happen? So fucking crazy, you know.

1:59:08 Speaker 3: How did I end up here?

1:59:10 Speaker 2: How did I end up back? Looking? Hear the people you know, like you guys are insane and and it's just such a but it does explain the state of our country almost in some respects if we can't with such a weird issue, frankly, for the average person proceed in a thoughtful, kind, deliberative, open, positive way and instead choose and again, you know, I'm not gonna be that way. If you know, if they're not gonna be that way, they're gonna get mean Ivan. And now they're getting mean Ivan and it's not gonna it's not gonna be nice.

1:59:46 Speaker 1: Uh oh so yeah, so I uh wow, this was This was a very very, very fun conversation.

1:59:52 Speaker 3: I really want to say thank you for doing it. Thank you for clearing up some of that stuff. I'd love to love to talk in.

1:59:59 Speaker 1: The future about, you know, some geo more maybe more geopolitical stuff.

2:00:03 Speaker 3: And sure I broaden our horizon here.

2:00:06 Speaker 1: Sure you know where where could people find uh what the what the latest is on on Ivan?

2:00:12 Speaker 2: And look, I'm always I'm on Twitter and I even handled ESQ. Some lunatics I don't know who they were, took my old one, which is I've an underscore handle. I don't care though, I mean, you know, if this one goes down, I'll do another one. It's like this. You know, I don't know who took it down. I don't really care. I'll just start a new one.

2:00:30 Speaker 1: You know.

2:00:31 Speaker 2: I tweet a lot about different thoughts, and sometimes they're funny and sometimes they're silly, and sometimes they're about law, and sometimes they're about this stupidity. But no, I really just leave you. I'll please you. Also, you know, I have an email I even handle e s Q at proton dot emmy or whatever that you can reach me out if you have a real thing. But please don't email me like is there an apocalypse and pending? You know, are you a lizard? You morons? I don't have time for that, you dummies.

2:00:59 Speaker 3: And if I was a lizard, I'm not going to tell you on it evil.

2:01:03 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I'm like, oh no, I would definitely tell you. I would definitely tell you because I'm very direct and transparent. Maybe you know, at fifty four, I'm not here. I'm not pining to be somebody else. I am who I am, flaws, good things, bad things, and so you get what you get. And yeah, you know, so you can reach out to me. And you know, I tweet about people, people say things. Please what one thing that's annoying for the ex people, Twitter people, whatever you call because when you just say something stupid like short and stupid like Lou suck.

2:01:37 Speaker 2: So I hate them. It's like, this is not your personal therapy session, you morons, like you know, I'm not your I'm not your therapist. I don't want to hear what you think of Lou, what you think of this, what you think of me, Like it's annoying. I just have to then, do you know. I just look past it. And I don't block people usually unless they start dominating the conversation in an appropriate way. But I'll block people if I have to do. I just don't like to. It's not my principle. I have a principle of open discussion, just like I'm doing here when other people would not.

2:02:07 Speaker 2: But but you know, so, so talk to me if you want, if you have something interesting. I don't have the time to look at everything, but I will say, you know, I found interesting things, interesting articles, videos, nice people, nice comments. There was great people in the community. And I really hope the scientific types still continue despite the consternations of this to to to do their best. So I hope the science goes on. I hope we can reframe the politics to one of coordination decency. I don't believe it's likely.

2:02:34 Speaker 2: Frankly, knowing the players, knowing the knowing the politicians, at least some of them. I think we're And the sad part is, honestly, by having you know, not done the right thing for lou and you know him sort of going off into the wilderness. You know it gonna have it's gonna be tougher than it would before. He's a great voice for the community, for the public at least. Granted, you get things wrong, yes so do I, so do we all. But but he brought attention to an issue that took seven years to get to Congress.

2:03:09 Speaker 2: And unfortunately he's not had you know, much of you know, other other people, and there really disturbing and strange ways and one a couple of one of the last points, I'll go find people a decent character, and it's not just their public character. What you hear, you know, what you actually know. If you know I've had personal experiences with people. I don't base this on supposition. I've had personal experiences. So what I'm saying I don't like somebody, it's probably a damn good personal reason.

2:03:38 Speaker 2: For it.

2:03:39 Speaker 1: Bear that in mind, right right, Yeah, no, as as I would expect. You know, I really really want to say thank you again for doing this, like.

2:03:49 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Appreciate it, have your audience, have a great weekend with the left of it. For me, it's probably just work, but I appreciate you all. And you know, please please do good in your world, whether the el enter here or not. You know, whether it's taking your kids out, watching a great movie, treating yourself to something and taking a walk, doing the thing you were supposed to do, reading something new.

2:04:09 Speaker 1: Just don't sit on X all day in spaces and talk about It's.

2:04:13 Speaker 2: Hard not to get it's hard not to get into it and be you know, oh god, this person bad and these perp. But I talked to most I talk to most people. Most people, even the bad people in the community, the evildoers, I'll still talk to them sometimes to hear their thinking. And you know, I say, look, I'm just extraordinarily transparent. And people don't like that because they want to be all secret inside guru people. And you can just go fuck off.

2:04:37 Speaker 1: You know.

2:04:37 Speaker 3: Everyone wants to be the quarterback.

2:04:39 Speaker 2: And I'm not. I'm not interested in being a quarterback. I'm not even necessarily interested in being on the team. I'm interested in doing good work, and I wish everybody luck in this journey towards whatever is up there here in the spaces, in the interdimensional spaces of Luna's head.

2:04:56 Speaker 3: One last one. I love it. I love it.

2:04:59 Speaker 1: Thank you, I thank you so much for vieeir Man, thank so. All right, So with everyone else, guys, make sure if you're watching, like share subscribe. It really does help the channel and it helps with what we do here getting seen by a broader audience. I never ask I don't sell merchandise or anything like that, so that's all we ask for is like share, subscribe, And if you're listening in the future on one of the great podcast platforms, follow the show and leave a review. It's free and it takes twenty seconds.

2:05:33 Speaker 1: All right, we'll see you next time. Oh oh, I have a great conversation coming out with riswan Furk. Edited by Cari Kyrie Lindsay. It is fucking It plays like a movie from what I've seen, and I can't wait for that to come out. It's the first episode in studio with a guest, so should be fun.

2:05:55 Speaker 3: All right, see you next time. I think everything at everything today not to take I have to.

2:06:05 Speaker 1: I think the conting that thing, and then I thin