MINDY TAUTFEST International UFO Bureau- Leading a New Charge- UFOs & NDEs

0:00 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Tie here from Total Disclosure. I'm super excited to announce that I will be heading to the Desert this May twenty ninth to June second. We will be at Contact in the Desert event Horizon, the world's largest UFO and UAP conference. The Contact in the Desert Conference is a beacon of intellectual discourse dedicated to exploring the frontiers of knowledge in UAP, artificial intelligence, the future of technology and space travel, non human intelligence, spirituality, and health and wellness.

0:33 Speaker 1: Get your tickets now at www dot Contact in the Desert dot com. Again, that is www dot Contact in the Desert dot com. The list of speakers ranges from people like doctor Avilobe, head of the Galileo Project out of Harvard, to researchers like Richard Dolan, activists Steve Bass, UAP witness Robert Sallas, and so many more. Paul Heine, I mean, the list is jam packed full of amazing people, speakers. Chris Bledsoe is going to be there. They're going to be doing workshops and so much fun stuff. So guys, get your tickets now.

1:18 Speaker 1: Really really want to see everyone there. I'll be able to interview people one on one after their talks uh and hopefully I'll be able to do a podcast from the event, So keep your ears open for everything that's going on. You can also visit contacteddesert dot com get your tickets, check out the speaker list and all the workshops and everything else that is going on. I hope to see you there. Let's seek truth together.

1:55 Speaker 2: I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this work. Yet I ask you it was not an alien force already among us.

2:10 Speaker 3: We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsolved by the military industrial company. The potential or the disastrous rise or misplaced power exists and will persist.

2:43 Speaker 4: Now. I am become death Dyer of world.

2:45 Speaker 2: In my association with Project Group, they definitely withheld information.

2:56 Speaker 2: We look on the essay, we're all going against the wind about the hundred win. You shall be twere or firm Testomon.

3:03 Speaker 1: You are about to give us the truth, the whole truth and truth.

3:06 Speaker 2: So help you guys. Do you believe that our government is in possession of the agents?

3:10 Speaker 1: Absolutely, welcome back to Total Disclosure. I am your host, TI and we have a wonderful show for you today. Mindy Tofest is a published author, speaker, in television personality known for her groundbreaking work in UFO investigations. As the owner and CEO of the Hayden Cues International UFO Bureau or the IUFOB, she is transforming our understanding of unidentified flying objects and UAPs as they call them now. The IUFOB that is a mouthful, by the way, combines decades of research with cutting edge technology to explore the nature, origins, and capabilities of these phenomena, enhancing scientific understanding and informing global policies.

4:02 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, Mindy led the recovery in digest digitization of the iufob's historic files, preserving vital UFO research, including President Jimmy Carter's sighting and the Heavens Gate cult investigation. With a background as an ICU nurse and disaster relief volunteer, she brings a unique analytical perspective to her work. As the former dean of Muffon University, she developed a global training curriculum for field investigators, and her meticulous research has been featured on the History channels, Ancient Aliens and the proof is out there.

4:41 Speaker 1: Mindy's personal near death experience in twenty sixteen sparked her exploration of the connections between NDEs and UFO encounters. With that being said, we're not going to waste too much time, let's bring in Mindy. Thank you for being on the show. I stumbled over a couple words there, but.

4:58 Speaker 4: It was a mouthful.

5:00 Speaker 1: I didn't realize how how how difficult it actually was to say i UFOB. I know, it's almost us International UFO Bureau.

5:13 Speaker 4: We just call it the bureau Bureau.

5:15 Speaker 1: That I like that.

5:17 Speaker 4: I like the bureau. Yeah, yeah, it was actually the IUFOB was put together by Hayden Hughes back in nineteen fifty seven. So this was well beyond you know, it was one of the very first bureaus put together to investigate UFOs by civilians and just you know, citizens mobilizing together to get an understanding. And whenever we decided to you know, relaunch it here this year, we said, you know, do we want to keep with the International UFO Bureau the IUFOB. There's there's a charm with it that comes with that antiquity or the ant you know, the the vintage feel of it.

6:03 Speaker 4: And so what we've done is we have kind of divided it up into two different segments, where one is the Hayden C. Hughes Research Center UFO Research Center, and we've kept the original logo that Hayden created back then, and then we've updated with the IUFOB logo, just changing it, tweaking it just a little bit. I think what's interesting is he actually had a little orb above the UFO and the logo, and we since it was founded here in Oklahoma City and I'm still here in Oklahoma City carrying this on, we went ahead and moved that little orb just a little bit over the globe right onto Oklahoma City to kind of give a nod to its founding.

6:48 Speaker 4: So it's a little bit of history about it.

6:51 Speaker 1: I really thought it was a smart move to instead of kind of creating something new and something that that you know, people didn't know, versus resurrecting someone something that has a historic value and bringing it into the modern age of disclosure in the UFO phenomena where we're at, it was a really smart strategic move. So I just I commend you, and I know that you know you did a lot of work for move on. So I do want to, you know, and we have a limited time, so I kind of want to start with with your personal journey.

7:31 Speaker 1: Can you you kind of share, you know, the pivotal moment that you know led to you becoming involved in UFO investigations after your ND in twenty sixteen.

7:44 Speaker 4: Yeah. Actually I have been interested in the UFO topic my entire life. I was the little kid watching sightings instead of Sesame Street. Yeah. I would ride my bicycle down to the book bile and check out everything I could on UFOs as soon as I could read that's what I was reading. My sister would pick up stuff about cats she was four years older. And here I am looking at the mysteries of the universe. And so it's always been something that's captivated me from a very young age. And I don't have any memories of being an experiencer.

8:22 Speaker 4: I've had several people say that I probably am. I have memories of dreams of you know, getting lifted out of my bed and out of my bedroom and stuff, but I don't have any memory after that. And it'd be interesting to do like a regression or something. There may have been contact there in my past, but I'm not willing to jump to say that I'm a UFO experiencer. I've seen plenty of lights in the sky throughout my life, and ones that have made impossible maneuvers, but nothing I could say was up close or anything or any you know, very concrete memory of ever having a close encounter.

9:02 Speaker 4: So in twenty sixteen, go ahead.

9:06 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, So, it sounds more like you're what you you don't want to do is make yourself the story, right, But you'd like to help others and to shed light on what is going on, but not turn it on to yourself.

9:25 Speaker 4: Right.

9:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.

9:27 Speaker 4: That makes sense. Well. I have always been an experiencer of swords. I write about in my book about hat Man. I had hat Man standing in my room from the time I was eight years old up until my mid twenties. I was working as an ICU nurse, and I would literally be in my bedroom trying to pull the covers over my head, you know, terrified because this thing came very often. And I speak about that someone in depth in the book. I've had a lot of spirit encounters, you know, past loved ones coming to visit and things like that, But what really was the turning point was twenty sixteen.

10:10 Speaker 4: Whenever I had I call it a brain aneurism, It was actually a vertebral artery dissection, so one of the main arteries that goes up into your brain it ripped in two places and it caused me to have a stroke. And whenever it was happening, it was actually election day of twenty sixteen against Trump versus Hillary. And at the time, my husband was a Southern Baptist minister and our kids were elementary age. We lived out on a big wheat farm in northern Oklahoma, and it was like three hundred acres and the only person around was my father in law who lived across the street, which was well down the road.

10:52 Speaker 4: But my husband was also working at the local school, so he drove the school bus, loaded the kids up that morning and they left. And whenever I went to go get ready for my day, I saw that my face was a little bit swollen, and I thought, Okay, something's weird there. I thought maybe I was having an allergic reaction to something. So I took a picture or sent it to my husband and said, something's off, And he said, why don't you take a benadrill and go jump in the shower, see if that, you know, if it comes down throughout the day, and so I did.

11:23 Speaker 4: I went about my day, nothing major, I want in any pain or anything. But by that early afternoon, it was about three four o'clock in the afternoon, I was expecting John and the kids to get home, and so I had the front door open and I was waiting for them to run in and they give me big hugs and kisses and tell me about their day. And so I was sitting there. I was looking to see if there were any early exit polls that had come out, and as I was, all of a sudden, I heard this loud explosion in my skull and it was just horrific.

12:01 Speaker 4: It felt like my skull had just blown apart. And I thought, oh my god, I've been shot, because I had seen coyote hunters out and around the farm in the days leading up, and that was my first thought was, Okay, they've shot through this wall and they've shot me. But I was trying to focus and I couldn't feel any bullood coming down. I was like, this has got to be an aneurism or something. And as I'm trying to figure it out, I could feel this like peeling away sensation. It went from the top of my head rolled down my body and my head started nodding, and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm dying, and I went into your panic.

12:45 Speaker 4: It was I'm looking at the front door, waiting for my kids to run in, and I'm going, oh God, God, no, don't don't let my kids run in here and find me. And I'm freaking out because there's nothing i can do to help myself at this point, and I feel everything just kind of draining away, and I'm praying. I'm just I'm in deep prayer because I know I'm in major trouble and I'm thinking I can't survive this. And as I'm in deep prayer, I finally just stop and I look around and I realize I'm in complete darkness and I'm not in any pain anymore, and I'm like, okay, what is this.

13:35 Speaker 4: So on the front of my book, you see the hand sticking out, and that's what I did. I put my hand out in front of my face to see if I could see it, and when I couldn't, my next thing that I turned to was, well, do I have hand? So I started clapping and I couldn't clap, and that's when the realization hit me. I've already passed over. I'm on the other side. I'm dead. And so I'm thinking, okay, well, nothing I can do now. I've got to what comes next. And being a Southern Baptist minister's wife, I'm turning towards what I believe from my Christian faith.

14:16 Speaker 4: I'm thinking, Okay, Jesus is coming, and you know, hopefully Grandma and Grandpa will come and they'll they'll greet me. And so I'm watching just expectantly and waiting for like the tunnel of light, waiting for anything. And I'm just kind of curious of what's going to happen. And I'm excited, but I'm kind of nervous too, And so I'm waiting and I'm waiting and nothing is happening. So I start praying again, and I'm praying for my husband and kids. I'm wondering if they've found me, found my body yet, and I'm praying, you know, be their peace, you know, shield them from this.

14:58 Speaker 4: And I didn't have any concept of how much time had passed. It seemed like a long time, but there were still things, you know, things were progressing linearly. You know, I can't speak, you know, in a in a time timeline fashion, but still it seemed like it was so long. And as time went on, I started getting worried. That's whenever I was like, okay, nothing's happening. What Why is there no tunnel of life? Why am I not being greeted? What? What's wrong? And I start really kind of having an inner struggle within myself.

15:42 Speaker 4: I'm looking over my life. I'm looking over how I was in life. It wasn't a life review like some people get. Mine was more just a inner assessment, and I found myself not lacking. I said, God, I'm preach your gospel. I don't understand. I was freaked out, worrying that I was about to have judgment and I was either going to go to heaven or hell. And I was saying, Jesus be my righteousness. Obviously, something that's wrong. I can't get in. I don't understand this. Why are you forsaking me? Why am I out here by myself?

16:21 Speaker 4: And as I was kind of doing that inner assessment, it came to me, you need to learn how to love yourself. And I thought, wow, okay, I've never lacked at loving others, but that self love has always held me back. And it wasn't like an ego driven thing. It was more of a lack of allowing myself to flourish and do what I knew I needed to be doing,

16:53 Speaker 4: and so it was really getting in the way of what I needed to be doing in life. Once I realized that there was an entity that came up over my left shoulder, and it was very definitely male. It was not God, it wasn't a deity, it wasn't even necessarily human. I couldn't tell what energy it was giving off, but it was definitely a male energy that it put off. And he told me, You're not going to be here forever. And when he did, I thought, Okay, someone's here. I'm not alone, and he's saying I'm not going to be here forever.

17:33 Speaker 4: So that brought me so much comfort. And as he told me this, we started sailing off to the left, and in the distance I could start seeing a purple glow, and as we got closer and closer, I could see these lines that were bright, bright pink, and where they came together it was bright yellow and it looked like this giant nebula and it gave off just love, immense love, and I thought, wow, that's where I'm going, and I wanted to go to it, but we stopped and he let me just kind of take it in and he told me that's the fabric of humanity, and I just just absorbed it.

18:19 Speaker 4: It was amazing, and then he knew I wanted to go towards it. Like our conversation was all telepathic pretty much. I mean, it wasn't like we had a mouth or anything. It was instant. As soon as I thought something, he knew it. As soon as he thought something, it was sent to me. And so he basically was like, no, that's not for you. And so we continued selling off to the left, and then instantly I was back in my body and it was like a like a computer rebooting, where it was like the processes were coming back on.

18:56 Speaker 4: My head was ringing, I was swamped over on the cow. I had had a stroke, so my right arm I kept trying to prop myself up and kept falling. So that's that was the near death experience, and it troubled me so much because I was not prepared for where I went. I had never heard of the void. I called it the dark Abyss dark Abyss. And it took me two years before I told my husband because at the time we were so fundamental or fundamentalist in our beliefs. We didn't even believe that indies were real, let alone me telling him I.

19:38 Speaker 1: Didn't go to heaven, right, that would be kind of, like hear said, heresy at that point pretty much.

19:46 Speaker 4: And I was worried about, well, what if he doesn't believe me, Well what if he does believe me, how is this going to affect his faith? Because my husband is such a dear person and sault of the earth, one of the most wonderful people. I don't know how I got so lucky, but he you know, really and if you read my book, he's the hero of the story. He immediately believed me as soon as I told him. I mean he saw it was the first time I spoke about it, was telling him, and I mean I just broke down and I was sobbing, and I was having trouble finding words.

20:28 Speaker 4: And he knew there was no lies in what I was telling him. If he knew I experienced what I did and to be able to tell him about it, he said, Okay, we're going to figure this out together, and that's what we did. We he found IONS, which is the International Association Prenier Death Studies and find us up for their sharing groups, and so I started making connections with some of the people there and better understanding. But I think one of the things within IONS that I've seen them grow, which is really wonderful.

21:01 Speaker 4: Whenever I had first come to them, they were very much on the side of wanting to hear about the wonderful in these and not the more frightening ones, which Nancy Evans Bush. She was a secretary for them for years and she has been the champion of the she actually named the Distressing Near Death Experience. She's written several books, Buddha at the Gas Pomp and stuff like that. Yeah, and she was the first book that I read, me and my husband actually read together. And I started coming to terms with what I had experienced and understanding that it wasn't necessarily a negative judgment.

21:44 Speaker 4: The more I was able to remove myself from it, I understood, yes, there's trauma there, but the void didn't offer me any negativity. It wasn't any It didn't it wasn't against me in any way. My distress came from my own inner thoughts when I was there. That understanding that was was key.

22:13 Speaker 1: Okay, question, So, when you're in limbo, the void, the abyss, whatever you want to call it, you had mentioned how you couldn't.

22:25 Speaker 5: Clap, or you or you you.

22:28 Speaker 1: Tried to clap. Are you? I guess what I'm saying is did you have physical form or was it just like kind of what you see out of your eyes and nothing else.

22:40 Speaker 4: I did not have physical form. If I could put it into a visual The best way I can describe it is I felt like a dandelion, almost like I was existing there. It's so hard to put into words.

23:02 Speaker 1: Well, I understand I was, I was, My essence was there.

23:06 Speaker 4: Everything about my thoughts and my spirit was so amplified. So whenever I came back and I was put back in my body, everything kind of felt dull here, and I struggled really bad with knowing that there was a bigger existence. Everything that I was over there was what I felt, was what I thought, and so trying to fit back into a broken body, one that was struggling with, you know, major health elements and everything, I felt very locked in and one of the things I've I've described to people. The best way I can put it is, if you, Tyler, No, you have your life, you know what you're doing here on this earth, right, And if you put on on a uh a virtual reality headset and you started your life there, you built your character, you insert your your thoughts into controlling this right right, and you got locked into it.

24:17 Speaker 4: You can never take that headset off. That's how I felt returning because I knew I have this expanded existence on the other side. It would be the same thing as you remembering your life here and but there's a real reality, yes, And so that's a lot of what I went through those first couple of years was trying to reintegrate back into this reality I was. I fought like hell to it back and I was so thankful for it. But I remember, I still remember, and I still maintain that connection. I think that quantum entanglement with that spirit.

24:56 Speaker 4: My spirit is still entangled with that place. But and I know we're not even talking you, oh yeah, but this is this is what got me on my journey. And I had to go through therapy for the PTSD from the medical viewpoint and as well with the near death experience. So in my healing journey, I ended up back in the hospital and I was pretty ill the second time. My blood pressure was like forty over twenty. And I told my husband, look, we've we've got to talk about funeral arrangements. We've got to be prepared because if this happens again, I don't think I can survive it.

25:38 Speaker 4: And he said, okay, well we'll do that. But on the other side of this, let's plan something fun. What do you want to do with your time here? And I said, I want to go to Rosalo. So he said.

25:50 Speaker 5: Okay, and he do what.

25:55 Speaker 1: That's the best thing I've ever heard. It's like, what do you want to do? Like, you know, what's your ideal before a death? Bucket list Itemswell?

26:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty much. So he actually planned it out. We got the kids together and we went to Roswell and out there I met Kathleen Martin, who had started the Experience a resource team for MoveOn, and so I thought, wow, I could actually investigate stuff. I need to be getting back out into the public. I need to get back out and like form connections with people and stuff because I'd been walked in my house for like two years. Recovering from this this dissection and so excuse me, I'm getting over the flu here.

26:48 Speaker 4: So on the way home, I looked up move On and that's how I ended up getting started with them, And throughout my time there, I was able to do so much amazing things with creating the whole training platform, setting up the investigations, you know, in a proper layout, to make sure that we were collecting evidence, and also being there for experiencers on the other side of that, and I mean just all kinds of things within the organization. And I'm so thankful for my time there, but it also taught me how to run this kind of an organization.

27:27 Speaker 4: So back to the near death experience. How this fits in. As I had started working with experiencers, I started thinking, Man, these people sound like me. Why do these UFO experiencers sound so much like me? In their details of their actual experience mimicked a lot of the things that I was saying happened to me on the other side and the void. How does this line up? And I kept thinking, Okay, if this is truly something, someone else has seen this And I ended up coming across doctor Kenneth Rein and he wrote the Omega Project back in the nineties, and doctor Ring is brilliant.

28:12 Speaker 4: He's in his nineties now, and I just I love him. Every time that we write back and forth, he goes, my dearest Mindy so sweet. I love him. But he really was visionary back in that time. He was the professor of psychology there at the University of Connecticut and he had been studying near death experiencers. He actually was one of the founding members of Ions with doctor Raymond Moody, Bruce Grayson, all of the big names, and so he really focused on the near death experience side. Well, a colleague of his brought a book to him, which was Whitley Struber's Communion and said, you need to read this.

28:58 Speaker 4: This guy sounds like you're near to experiencers. And he said, then I really don't do UFOs, but he said, all flatter you. I'll read it. And when he did, he found those same connections. So that's why he set up the Omega Project to really study what were the connections between these two types of encounters. And the main two things that he came away with was one, there's an encounterprone personality. And he actually divided this from the encounterprone personality from those that are fantasy prone.

29:34 Speaker 4: So people that were encounter prone were not out and very imaginative people. We weren't fighting dragons, we weren't playing with fairies and stuff. We were actually learning to put our consciousness into another realm to make contact with entities there. And so it was a very big divide between those fantasy prone people and those that were actually encounter prone, and they had all types of encounters throughout their childhood and lifetime. The other side of that was the after effects that were seen between both types of experiencers.

30:15 Speaker 4: So most come out with a much bigger view of reality, They understand the bigger picture, and more altruistic, much more gentle, more spiritual rather than religious. And the list goes on and on. There's even physical changes where like I blew up a few different microwaves just from touching it. I cried a few laptops, things will glitter around me, lights going out really because yeah, because of the energy put off from those kind of encounters. But he found that in both UFO experiencers and near death experienceers, we also look younger.

30:59 Speaker 4: So you go on my Facebook, I looked raggedy before my dissection happened, and throughout that I actually have kind of aged backwards a little bit, and that's what happens to a lot of people. We have almost a unique look about us. I don't know if it's a glow or what it is, but that energy definitely stays with us. So finding doctor Ring was a huge Aha moment for me and understanding that there was a connection between these different types of encounters and different types of experiences. One of the main things that really blew me away was that Kathleen Martin had actually done a study and found that fifty five percent of UFO experiencers have had a near death experience.

31:53 Speaker 4: And combine you compare that to general public, it's about five percent of the general republic that's had a near death experience. So why have fifty five percent of UFO experiencers had a near death experience? And I'll tell you just personally, within knowing researchers within the UFO field, I would say probably eighty eighty five percent have had a near death experience. For those that are actually have gone on to be deeply entrenched within the community, So there is some kind of underlying tie there.

32:31 Speaker 4: In my book, I detail in chapter nine about the connection with consciousness there it is, yeah, dying to meet them. But I actually had an Army colonel that would call me weekly to discuss Chapter nine after it came out, and because I had related it back to analysis and assessment of the Gateway process. They were actually training soldiers to send their consciousness over into what they call the absolute right to meet with nhis non human intelligence to gather information. They were trying to get information gathering to bring it back over to use within the military, and they were successful with it.

33:16 Speaker 4: It was part of a stargate. Yeah, what they were doing absolutely echoes what I experienced in my near death experience. So I think that where I was the void is the absolute. It was a peak behind the curtains, and it was almost like I was there existing with the pure binary of it. I was there. It was like a primordial soup where everything was just at that right before the spark of existence. Everything could just pop into existence at any time, and it was existing at the same time altogether. And it's hard to put into human concept, but this is exactly what they were experiencing with the Gateway process.

34:07 Speaker 4: And so I think what I encountered. The non human intelligence that met with me was one of the many that are over there. So relating that, go ahead, and I'm sorry.

34:22 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to cut you off a little bit.

34:25 Speaker 4: I talked too much. Go ahead, but no, no, no.

34:27 Speaker 1: No, you're supposed to You're the guest. But you know, something that's always fascinated me is the idea that our religion is based on the same kind of experiences and encounters. And would you give any credence to that, just like, for instance, the idea of a guardian angel, right, could that just be a non human intelligence that's, you know, like you experienced in your near death experience something guiding you in the in the afterlife, and then you come back to your body and you still have that experience.

35:15 Speaker 1: So I mean, are we talking about the same things just a different name.

35:22 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I believe. So. I believe a lot of the UFO encounters are interdimensional, extra dimensional. I know some, you know, I don't discount anything. I know that, you know, there's arguments for them coming from other planets. We have a huge you know, existence out here that they could be coming from anywhere. We know they're probably coming from within the oceans, in our earth. There are so many different types of entities that are interacting with us every day. And our human brain everything is made of particles and waves, and our brains are like computers that you know, pick up on it, so we're not always tapped into picking up on these different wavelengths and where these different things are existing and operating.

36:16 Speaker 4: So absolutely, I think that there's some tie in with the Guardian Angels, and I think that that's a whole different I'll have to come back for that discussion because now we're getting into the KNOCKI of the age. It's a god everything else. But you know, I think that there is There are so many different things, so that gets into UFOs now, and what we're trying to do with the Bureau is better understand who's coming from where and why. You know, are they meaning us harm? Are they trying to help us, set us on a better path and you know, raise our consciousness and show us a better way.

36:58 Speaker 4: We have so many tools within humanity that we could be using for good and we're using for bad. You know, were worthholding from humanity because giving the good stuff will also reveal the bad. It's so I understand the predicament that the government's in. One of the things we're hoping to do with the Bureau is to bring in some of the minority reports, some of the underreported populations out there that have typically not come forward for fear of you know, this is the man or whatever I think that it's an One of the unique positions we're in is that we're a woman led bureau and that we're all experiencers.

37:47 Speaker 4: So yes, we do have some some people that have ties within our board of directors. We have a former chief of Aerospace Medicine for NASA, we have former Air Domain chief from NORAD that are our our board. But we also they also understand and know that these experiences are real. In fact, they're married to experience the reason, so they understand it on that level. And that was one of the things that we were really careful about with putting the board together, was we wanted our people that understood from the get go that this is a true, true phenomena and we're not looking just for disclosure.

38:29 Speaker 4: We're beyond disclosure. Those of us that have had these kind of encounters, we know it's true. What can we learn from this is what we need to be asking we're looking at the next questions and with the really boom and AI, it's almost criminal not to be utilizing that AI to do deep analysis and dig in. We have within our database, we have all the archives that we brought from Hayden Hughes whenever he started back in fifty seven, and like you had stated there at the beginning of the intro, the original Jimmy Carter report was filed with the Bureau.

39:05 Speaker 4: He actually Hayden wrote to Jimmy and said, hey, I heard you had a siding on the campaign trail, which you fill out my report for him, And so I have that letter that he wrote to Jimmy, and then Jimmy Carter wrote back in hand, wrote in all of the answers and sent it back to Hayden. So that's within the Bureau archives. We also have stuff with you know, Heaven's Gate, which that gets into a whole nother realm of things, and I try to be very careful with it because I don't want to give credence to it, but I do want to honor the history there because Hayden he wrote a couple of books, one with Brad Steiger inside Heaven's Gate about his time investigating because at the time they weren't quote unquote a cult.

39:51 Speaker 4: You know, they weren't talking about having an exit. They were to some degree, but Hate was kind of just trying to give him an open mind and say, okay, well, tell us about your thoughts and what you're you know, uh, what you're getting together here right right? What?

40:12 Speaker 5: What what do you what are you aiming to achieve?

40:15 Speaker 1: Because just like you said, cults, you know, it's it's almost like in the beginning, it's all blissful stuff and then and the longer it goes for, the darker it gets. Yes, farts Heaven's Gate, you know, terrible tragic ending, but you look at the roots and and you can see how something could farm, how how it did come together. Right.

40:42 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I have a good friend Chris Jordan. He's the one that actually helped with digitizing all of the archives, and as we were going through stuff, we had really good conversations about where do you draw the line between religion and cult? And you know, was this a new religion that was that was forming. It's been ongoing. I mean there's still followers that wish that they had taken that exit. And you know, they still run the website and everything, so I try to be very careful and very respectful of their wishes, but still not support their you know, their agenda that they had back in ninety seven.

41:23 Speaker 1: So Joe Rogan has a bit about a bit about that. What's the difference between religion and a cult? Right? And uh he says, the difference is the difference between the religion and a cult is uh in a religion, I in a cult. The only the only difference between it is the guy who started it is dead.

41:48 Speaker 4: Right.

41:49 Speaker 1: So it's sorry, that's a bit me everything.

41:53 Speaker 4: We could go, yeah, because well, yeah, I'm not going to go in there, but yeah, but but I actually just release the polygraph results when Marshall apple White and Bonnie Nettles were in the office of the original Bureau with Hayden, and they took a polygraph and they actually believed everything that they were saying. So that was interesting, not say that it was true, but it was true to them, and so they truly believed what they were sharing with people. So that's part of the Bureau archive and hopefully we can pull some interesting analysis from that and better understanding the formation of colts and you know when it kind of goes off the rails to become harmful.

42:45 Speaker 4: So there's different things that we need to be looking at within archives to better understand. One of the things that we're really excited about is we're working with Michelle Miners and John Dover and Stan Milfer, who are the paranormal Navajo Rangers and you've probably seen them.

43:05 Speaker 1: Yes, is literally one of my favorite people. Oh yeah, I've wanted to talk. I've wanted to have him on the show forever forever.

43:17 Speaker 4: We'll get him on here.

43:18 Speaker 1: Okay, I would love that because I'm literally watching I just started Dark Winds just because like it's it's about the Nava Police. It's not really like about them, but it's loosely like kind of based on it. So I love that. And and and again we need we as a society, we really need to understand the cultures and the civilizations that were here before us and what they're trying to tell us when they put something into rock art or or you know, take the time to carve something into rock, because that that you didn't just do that in an afternoon.

43:57 Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't just easy writing. No, they were trying. They were leaving it there because it meant something, and their oral histories and all of these things that we've been taught that that are just fairy tales. If you think that, I mean.

44:14 Speaker 4: Dismissive, how dismissive and alutely you know, self centered to think that your beliefs or your thoughts are the only way you know. It's not. Again, we're devulving into religion, and I try to stay away from I'm very I'm very middle of the road with religion and with politics and stuff, so I don't get easily offended, and I try not to offend others. I've done interviews before where people said, oh, she's so lost now, and you know she was never saved and this and that. I think absolutely, I want to get across that.

44:52 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I was saved when I went over to the Boy. All I had was faith over there, and so that has not been harmed in any way from what I have experienced. It's been amplified because I literally was standing in front of God, the Source, and I felt it all around me, and I have a much better and much higher understanding of Jesus and his mission here. It's taken me years to understand it. But I never lost my faith or anything in saying that. I'm open and I honor all faiths, and I see, you know, people find their way to God in different ways, and they have different deities and whatnot.

45:44 Speaker 4: We can't be closed off to that because they're really there is so much knowledge in all of our ancient religious books and texts and traditions. We have to stop fighting over these things. Yeah, we're all looking towards the same goal. It's you know it. We have to be much more open minded and much more gentle with each other because we're all doing our best.

46:13 Speaker 1: I absolutely agree, I absolutely agree. I think if the world, I think that that religion. What I really don't like about it is that it is just another division. It's another it's another way that we factionalize each other and put each other into groups. You know, with race, religion, creed all that it's all it is division. But a united humanity, if we can all.

46:39 Speaker 4: Take a step back, and can you imagine.

46:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, give me the Koran, I'll give you the Bible. You take this right, let's compare notes. There is nothing that a united, truly united human population could not do. And division is what I mean. Look, at the UFO community. You either support Greer or you sport el. No, it's not you have to pay on. It's our is our destruction. It's a you know, reminiscent of the story of the Tower of Babble. But to get back to UFOs, I do want to ask you know, aside from your specific your specific case it has, what has been the most surprising or impactful case and how did it shake your understanding of the UFO phenomenal.

47:35 Speaker 4: That is a loaded question and I'll tell you so let me readjust here and get company. So back in oh I say twenty three, it might have been twenty two. I had gotten a case in through move On and I'm a state director here in Oklahoma, and it was a schoolyarding account that happened. This one I actually spoke about on Ancient Aliens where it happened back in the nineteen seventies, in nineteen seventy five in Hartstorn, Oklahoma, down in the southeastern region. It's down there in like the Kayimichi Mountains and the stuff.

48:16 Speaker 4: And there was a family that had like eleven kids and they were they set up a school house out there and they took in like sibling groups troubled from troubled homes and stuff, and there were maybe fifteen twenty kids that were living there, and they were outside one afternoon and they started seeing this little thing off in the distance and they kind of kept an eye on it while they were outside. Plane well, over the course of an hour or so, moved slowly, slowly, slowly towards them, until finally it was hovering there on the property.

48:55 Speaker 4: And they had like six thousand acres out there, but they're at the home site. It was right over the trees, and they started kind of freaking out and saying, okay, this isn't normal because they were seeing the lights around the perimeter flashing and they were, you know, saw it just hovering there silently. So a couple of the kids ran inside to get the adults to come out because they were kind of scared about it. The oldest boy, his name was Clifton Buchanan. He went in and grabbed his shotgun and went and climbed up on top of the schoolhouse and was aiming it at the UFO as it was hovering there in between him.

49:38 Speaker 4: So he was on top of the schoolhouse and in between him were the women and other children, and then the UFO was over a patch of trees over here and they watched it and they said that it sat there silently, and once Clifton aimed that gun on, it flipped up to the side and then took off side, and they said it shot off about a mile away, which was still incredibly still on their property, and there was actually a sawmill over in that area. So at this time, the kids are kind of upset and everything. They get everybody inside.

50:15 Speaker 4: Some of the kids are hiding under their beds and they're terrified. The teacher's trying to calm them down. She was only eighteen at the time, and she was one of two adults that were there, which was her and then Missus Buchanan, the mother of most of the kids that were there. So they got them in. Kids were upset. They decided to just sleep there in the living room that night, and Clifton actually started boarding up the windows nailing the door shut. They were hearing all kinds of ruckus outside the house and the kids were looking out the window and they said, there is something out there and it keeps changing, because they were like, what does it look like?

50:59 Speaker 4: And they said, just keeps changing, So they describe it as basically like shape shifting. Outside of there, they could see an entity or into tees and they were kind of phasing in and out, and they finally said, during the middle of the night, it went silent, like all of the crickets stopped. Everything went silent, and it was over. So they finally slept That next morning, they get up and the teacher packs them sack lunches and said, let's go on a build trip. So they walk the mile up there to where they saw the UFO land right and they're looking to see if there's any spots of landing, if there's anything burns or anything.

51:46 Speaker 4: And they didn't really know what they were looking for, but the UFO wasn't there anymore, so they decided to come back. When they get back, the teacher decides, well, let me go ahead and start pulling out lunch getting or getting stuff ready for dinner. So she opens up the meat locker outside that had a bunch of She said, it was about two sides of processed beef that was in there. When she opened it, it was gone. It had been completely cleared out. Okay, they had cattle there at this ranch, but the meat locker had been completely cleared out, so they said that they ate oatmeal for the next several days because of that.

52:29 Speaker 4: The next day she had gone out there and she was going to show mister Buchanan. He had come in from being out of town, and she went to open it. The meat was back, the processed beef was back in there, and he said, well the heck with that.

52:44 Speaker 1: So he got I'd put all that away, throw it all away.

52:51 Speaker 4: And that's exactly what he did, even with all these kids there. He pulled it out. He went and built a bonfire and burned it all up and said, we're not eating that, which I wish that they would have kept up.

53:05 Speaker 1: Because we've of course, my first thought is we could have analyze some of that.

53:09 Speaker 4: Maybe exactly.

53:12 Speaker 1: I guess that's the that's the professional inside of us saying, ah, I know why you burned it, but next time, keep us slice right.

53:21 Speaker 4: So, I mean, I've worked cattle mutilation cases. I don't understand what happened. Are you still there? You look for a second, but yeah, work in cattle mutilation cases. Why were the live cattle left alone? And instead this was was it some kind of nutrients that they drained from it and then put it back or you know, so that they didn't have to harm a living animal. I don't know, but so that's what happened in the schoolyarding encounter. In researching that like this case, I researched it for over two three years.

53:58 Speaker 4: It's still ongoing. So that's how I came across Hayden Hughes. Was looking at other sightings that had happened there in southeastern Oklahoma, and come to find out Hayden Hughes was there in this small town of Hartthorn back in the sixties and was collecting all kinds of UFO sidings with There was the wife of the postmaster that there. Her name was Altaclair Morgan. She had seen a UFO like the day before the major nineteen sixty five outbreak, the flap that happened over central US where there were thousands of sidings.

54:38 Speaker 4: This is when the Tulton Boy Scout photo was taken, which I have that uppeared the Tulton Boy Scout that was investigated by the Bureau. But there were so many sightings that happened during that time. So that's how I came across Hayden And when I went to reach out to him. That's when I found out he had passed in twenty seventeen. But I ended up getting in touch with his widow and said, do you mind if I just looked through the archives and she said, oh, honey, he would want you to have this and you know, make it available so it doesn't get lost.

55:11 Speaker 4: And so that's when I started working with Chris Jordan to get everything digital. Let's get it, you know, onto a digital format so that we can make it available to the public. And I mean there's things in there from Ground Saucer Watch, which was Heine's group that that Hayden worked with. There's stuff from the Condon Report. There are multiple things from embassies from you know, like the Embassy of Ghana, you know, the French embassy and like all over and them talking about UFOs. So it has opened up just from that one that one investigation has opened up this whole world and bringing back the Bureau and making sure that all of these archives don't get lost to time.

56:00 Speaker 4: That's so it has influenced everything.

56:04 Speaker 1: That that that. Like I said, it's it's really really inspiring to watch because I I can say this, I think that the more kind of civilian groups that are willing to to to do the work and do not just the nuts and bolts work right right, that's a lot of the sadly that a lot of the civilian groups that are formed right now, what they do is anything past anything that includes a being an entity or contact production. It is still highly stigmatized, even in the UFO community.

56:51 Speaker 4: So it's which is absolutely it's I think that there's a place for all of them because we do you need the nuts and bolts, guys, because that's what's going to get us further on technology. Actually, within our archives, we have a patent for a saucer shaped UFO multiple pages. Is probably a hundred page document where someone had submitted that to the Bureau to actually build, yeah, the blueprints and it's it's patented. So I mean there's all kinds of things, are you now?

57:26 Speaker 1: Now what move On doesn't do is as a as a member. If you're not a member or field investigator, you cannot go into their their records unless they give you access.

57:40 Speaker 4: Right.

57:40 Speaker 1: Is that something that the Bureau will do as well to protect you know.

57:47 Speaker 4: The identities and stuff you have to Right now, we're working on building out the database you had brought up about the indigenous. With Michelle Minors, she has brought five hundred reports from within the Navajo Nation and she's been a force to be reckoned with out there in the Uenta basin. She's incredible her research. We are so blessed to have her on the board. And then obviously with John Dover and Stan Milfer, they're our Director of Indigenous Voices, so they're going to be overseeing all of the Indigenous reports that's come into the Bureau, and they will actually be able to respond on tribal lands to be able to investigate.

58:33 Speaker 4: And we're not closing the door to those connections, so they refer to it as sw's or skin walkers, if those are in conjunction with the UFO, or if there's a bigfoot siding, we're not closing the door on that because that's missing out on vital information and connections which may be there we don't know until we take that deep dive. So while we focus mainly on UFOs, the spear of the Bureau has always been Hayden wrote about UFOs and bigfoot. He wrote about all these different things that they were already seeing.

59:08 Speaker 4: There was some overlap with so again being able to put all of that together to better understand, better understand from what the indigenous stories have told us to how it's changed in modern day and what we may be seeing in the future and how to respond to that. So there are so many deeper levels of things that we need to be looking at. With these old records, they can shed light on what we're seeing today. Have we always seen the orange orbs? Have they changed anyways? What kind of abductions are happening around them?

59:44 Speaker 4: Are these the grays? Are people terrified? Are they you know, getting traumatized by the tall lights? Or are they peaceful? We know the stories that the that the experiencers have told us, but what kind of patterns can we pull from this and better understand? You know, are these one certain type of entity just seen around the oceans, or maybe that's who's coming from the ocean.

1:00:12 Speaker 1: You know, right, So start correlating data and patterns, and that's where AI really can come into that, you know, by by you know, because again painstakingly a human would have to go through every single report, whereas AI it's almost like it's doing it, you know, it does it with extreme efficiency, and I think and.

1:00:38 Speaker 4: Like instantaneous, and we we as a population have you know, access to these kinds of tools now. So that's what we're really looking is to merge the old with the new and being able to utilize that new technology to better understand the patterns within epology. More things may emerge that we may never have thought about. And I've even asked gone through and asked you what prompts would you be looking to put in within? You know, I asked AI itself and our AI is actually Lexi, and there's a page on the website that introduces her.

1:01:17 Speaker 4: She actually wrote up her own bio and created her own picture, and so that's what I put up there. I asked her, I said, you know, would you like to be part of the team and feature? She said absolutely, So we put her on there because working with that has been so fundamental with helping us construct everything and getting everything set up. It's almost like she's another team member and that is helping.

1:01:46 Speaker 1: I was going to say, you know, you do realize that you're almost working with a non human intelligence. I mean, you have someone on the team that is non human and it's an intelligent so absolutely kind of funny in reds, but.

1:02:06 Speaker 4: Yeah, you had brought up about, you know, the different groups, So we do. We need the nuts and bolts guys because they're going to be pushing the technology side. We need the people that are really digging in and working with experiencers with doing the regressions and helping them process that trauma because it's a very big part of it. Some people are very happy about their encounters, but some are not because I know with me, whenever I was taken out of my body, I didn't have any control over what was happening.

1:02:35 Speaker 4: It's frightening when you have no control over what's happening to you and you're completely out of your element. Same thing that these UFO experiencers are going through. So there's a trauma element we have to address. So all these different groups are serving their purposes, and even those pushing for disclosure because I know that there's going to be things that our government obviously knows that they have not shared with the common people. But people like myself and other researchers that we've teamed with, we can get together and we can put our best minds together and you know, put our best collections together and see what we can learn from it.

1:03:15 Speaker 4: And better informed policy and better informed One of the initiatives we're doing is with first responders, and I have a master sergeant here that's working with me to create protocols for the firemen, e MT and police and so our first responders. You think of the incident that happened out in Vegas, they didn't know what the heck to do. You know, if they would have had that contact, what would they have done. So we need to understand what these entities are, what they're putting out there, if they mean harm or if they are you know, just curious, if they're research what are they doing.

1:03:55 Speaker 4: We need to start moving on and looking at the conversation as this is true. What can we learn not just you know, pushing for government disclosure. And like I said, those groups have their their place and their purpose. And if we all work together, you know we are going to be able to better understand what's been happening. But we have to start looking at that past. We have to start analyzing and taking a deep look and working together. So as far as you had asked if I would have the database open, what we're looking at doing is we'll have members.

1:04:39 Speaker 4: We will have a couple of investigators in each state to cover, but for the most part, we'll be able to call the information to check for misidentifications and much like what I taught at move On University, so we'll be looking for those misidentifications, trying to line it up with SpaceX launches, satellites, meteors flights, this regular ADSB and kind of overlapping that and even just astronomical bodies. You know, whenever serious is up there and it's really flashing a lot, people take notice.

1:05:12 Speaker 4: And so if we can roll out those misidentifications and prosaic you know, explanations, then we can get down to that twenty to thirty percent top and actually be able to go out and meet up with people, test the environment. We're working with the Lab, a certified lab down in Texas that we'll be able to actually collect evidence and run analysis on. So everything's really and this is only seven weeks that we've been, you know, since we started actually getting it back up and going as a five O one C three and working towards you know, revitalizing it.

1:05:48 Speaker 4: It's been incredible. The community has really come together and people like yourself are stepping forward and saying, hey, how can I help because people want to help. People want to see them see it succeed and to be able to get that information. That's the main thing I'm excited about, is pulling that data and getting new understandings that we may not have ever looked at before. And I think that'll help in the technology field as well. So we'll have the memberships, it'll be maybe one hundred and fifty people at most, and that'll actually be members.

1:06:24 Speaker 4: The rest will be subscriptions to different tiers of the research. So we might put out a basic analysis every month, you know, So we're looking at the different structures right now in order to get that information out. But I see us probably doing a major yearly report once we get everything going and you know, just offering the whole shebang everything we've learned this year.

1:06:51 Speaker 1: And I would assume that you would try to do like symposiums and stuff like that.

1:06:56 Speaker 4: That will probably be, yeah, a couple of years in the making. Like I said, seven weeks, Look how far we've come. We've already got our board, we've got our c suite of you know, our chiefs and major directors already in place. And these are all wonderful respected people in the field. And I'm I couldn't be more thrilled with how everything's the universe just keeps leading things, you know, just keep answering the phone. So it's a breath of fresh air to just everyone's really kind of on a high right now because everything's coming together so well and we can really see the vision coming together, So we're excited.

1:07:41 Speaker 1: I absolutely, I think that's I think that's a wonderful way to look at it. And again, like you said, seven weeks in, look what you've already done. You know what is going to be possible in the future. But like so really really just a great job with with with with the bureau. In what ways do you, uh, do you see to take it back to to NDEs and UFOs, In what ways do you see connections between you know, near death experiences and the paranormal side of things and unphone encounters and how might this influence future research?

1:08:28 Speaker 4: Right? Well, I don't know. Are you familiar with Ray Hernandez. He's the book about the contact modalities and some of the things that they came across were people were reporting loved ones who had passed, they were seeing their spirits on UFOs and all manner of bizarre things, and you know, combinations. I know within our bureau archives we have excuse me, the bigfoot standing next to Landa do you, And there are so many different combinations.

1:09:03 Speaker 2: I know.

1:09:04 Speaker 4: After my excuse me, let me meet myself for a second,

1:09:10 Speaker 4: right at the tail end of this flu So I apologize but understood. And I didn't want to cancel today because I was excited about talking with you because I know that you're doing great work.

1:09:22 Speaker 1: So thank you, Thank you so much.

1:09:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we'll talk more after this. But there has been so many combinations. One of the things I wrote about in my book after my near death experience was a visit from my grandmother who had passed, you know, thirty years ago. That was actually, yeah, I talk about. She had extended some yellow daisies out towards me and she was just smiling and I'm like, I haven't seen her since she passed, you know, and we were very close, so I was trying to understand. I remember up and typing into my phone yellow daisies.

1:10:02 Speaker 4: Look it up because I was like, what is that. I don't know, flowers and stuff, and she was like daisies, and I said, oh, okay, daisies so yellow daisies. So I looked it up and it was like a sign of joy or something like that. I was like, well, that's nice. Well, that night I went on to the Ions meeting, first time telling my story outside of telling it to my husband, and I was just ugly, crying and everything. There was this woman down in the bottom right corner. I will never forget. She pulled off screen and came and, you know, brought this vasin screen.

1:10:41 Speaker 4: She had a vase of yellow daisies and she lifted it up and held it towards the camera just like this, like my grandmother had done the night before whenever I had seen her, and I I just lost it. I just boohooed. I had no words because then I understood that connection and it opened up so many questions to me, like, okay, so she knew I was going to be speaking about my time in the void? Did my grandmother know I was in the void? Was she over there? And I just couldn't see her. You know, she knew that she is going to happen here in the future.

1:11:24 Speaker 4: For a woman to then pick up yellow daisies and show it to the camera just like she had held out the night before it just how does that happen? But that is what finally gave me the needed courage and strength to come forward and tell my story with the NDE and everything. That was the catalyst that opened me up to doing all the things I'm doing.

1:11:51 Speaker 5: So it just.

1:11:54 Speaker 4: Wow, you have to be open. And I think that, and I've said this before, there is a rediculousness factor with some of these experiencers and things that you would never ever, you know, expect to encounter because it's so ridiculous. People go, how right.

1:12:15 Speaker 1: Well, because the challenges if they even you know, entertained it, it would smash their reality in the in the they will fight to the nail.

1:12:25 Speaker 4: Uh yeah, well, like you know the mantis. You know, I remember first time hearing about Manton's and I was like, well, that's ridiculous. You know this bug over here now, Yeah, there are Mantons. And it's like with my good friend Terry link Kill that I've mentioned. She's the chairman of the board, she's the executive director within the bureau, and she she had an encounter with a reptilian who actually hild her and she's you know, collected DNA from it. It was analyzed through the MoveOn lab and shown that it was like a distant cousin of a tagu lizard that's found in South America, and it wasn't a direct match to it.

1:13:15 Speaker 4: It was some kind of mutated form of this tagu lizard. So here she is reporting a reptilian who healed her. Most people have bad encounters with reptilians. Why is this in healing her and then us to be able to collect that DNA that confirms that, yes, this was a reptilian just like she described it. So there there are so many strange things that can come up. But I think that we do a great disservice by not following up with the experiencers and collecting evidence, because that evidence is what is going to be there to prove their story.

1:13:54 Speaker 4: And we may not always get the evidence, but a lot of times there are race evidence that's left behind that we can't collect, you know, and that again just goes to bolster what they're telling us. But we have to have an open mind. We have to of course be on the lookout for hoaxes and people that are that might not be mentally fit, that are you know, kind of having mental health crisis and stuff. We do come across that stuff. I actually was put on Twitter as a lizard person. Of course. It's so you know, if if someone was to think that that's that's fine, they're entitled.

1:14:39 Speaker 4: But I was lattered that they actually pulled me out of all the researchers of that. But you know, we come across all types, and so we always just have to be on the lookout that. You know, sometimes people are having mental health crisis and we need to be prepared to help them with that. I've had people stalk me, and I've talked with Dave Scott about this the other day. You know, you're in America, especially being a woman in this field. Yes, we put up with a lot and connecting with experiences I've had on you know, proposition me and you know, stalk me.

1:15:17 Speaker 4: I've had to get police involved with things. There is so much and that you know, yeah, look to you guys to go. That's why I have a really good police base here in Oklahoma City. Most of the investigators here are with the police force, and I appreciate that because they kind of keep an eye out for me. But you know, anytime we put ourselves out there, and especially when we're working with people that are in a vulnerable state and that can kind of come into play. So that's you know, we have to keep an eye out for those kind of things.

1:15:51 Speaker 4: We do have to protect ourselves, but we also have to have an open heart and listen to people because they're telling the truth and they're they're trying to understand what's going on with them. It goes a long way just to say I believe you. Yeah, that's something that a lot of them haven't heard. And it's time that that changes.

1:16:11 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I know, you have you get about two minutes before you're going to be meeting with well, you're going to be meeting with someone, so yeah, what you know, how is your involvement in this field? And we'll we'll end it here with well, let's I would love to do a part two kind of you know, absolutely station, but how is your involvement in the field change your personal beliefs and perspectives on the universe?

1:16:39 Speaker 4: Wow? That well, okay, I have always thought I had an open mind. I think that with the NDE that really blew that out of the water. I mean it really removed any kind of judgment from me, and so that I think it had to happen in order for me to be effective, and I'm doing today and just coming across so many wonderful people and from so many different walks of life, and it's so endearing to hear their perceptions of what they've been through and the way that they relate to their encounters. You have to keep that open mind with how you know their religion may play into it, or their upbringing or their community.

1:17:33 Speaker 4: I mean, there are so many factors about what make us us, and it plays into our perception of our encounters. And I can say that from my near death experience. When I was over there, my perception and my beliefs played into how I, how I you perceived what happened to me until I took a step back and said, okay, let me drop that and let me just look at what it really told me without those different beliefs, you know, coming in. It has opened my mind so much and the compassion has just flown from me because of that.

1:18:17 Speaker 4: Whenever you can understand people on that level and try to walk them through a traumatic experience or you know some of them it's not traumatic, it's wonderful, and you can celebrate with them that you know they've had this enormous encounter and they feel a bigger part of things because of it. I think it is in a three. One of the things that he had came out of the the Omega project was the Omega personality or the Omega prototype. He believed that it was moving into a new day where we're all getting these little bits of information.

1:19:01 Speaker 4: Different people within different communities are rising up. We understand the bigger picture, and once we can let down all of our divisions and come together and share, it will move humanity forward. And I think it echoes kind of what you were saying earlier, but that was really the gist of what can ring came across, you know, came out with from the Omega project, and that's very much the way that I'm moving. I've never been a Kumbayah person head and the clouds, but it very much can move that direction if that's what we choose to do.

1:19:37 Speaker 4: I mean, we're so powerful in our voices and our actions, and if we can just show compassion to each other, understand each other a little bit more, then we can move on and understand the phenomena that we're looking into a little bit more.

1:19:52 Speaker 1: So.

1:19:52 Speaker 4: It's just It's opened me up to so much and I've met so many wonderful people because of it. I love what I do.

1:20:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the sky is the limit and I don't even think that that does it justice. So where can people? So I really can't wait to have you back on, But I can't wait for the release of the the Bureau and and seeing how it develops and how it integrates and kind of, uh, where it takes its place among civilian research groups. Where can people, you know, get get a look and how can they continue with following what you're doing all that kind of stuff.

1:20:37 Speaker 4: They can go to INTERNATIONALUFO Bureau dot com and they can sign up there for you know, to be on our mailing list and we'll be sending stuff out soon. Every day I'm getting up and working on new stuff. So we've got a Facebook page. They can look us up there International UFO Bureau. Uh. We got Instagram and I just started the TikTok and I plan on starting to post videos this week, so that'll be a good way to keep in touch too. So isn't it banned though?

1:21:07 Speaker 1: Is it what TikTok? I thought TikTok was banned.

1:21:11 Speaker 4: No, it was banned for a few hours, it came back.

1:21:16 Speaker 1: Oh I can't. I still can't get it on my phone.

1:21:19 Speaker 4: Really.

1:21:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it says when you go to the app store on the iPhone and look up TikTok, it says that I'll sell you right now. Yeah, TikTok and other

1:21:32 Speaker 1: bite Dance apps are not available in your country or region, so it doesn't come up. Yeah, but if you, if you, if you're on the computer, you can go to Yeah, you can go to over to Android apparently I do. I have no idea, but so when you were mentioned in TikTok earlier, I'm like, I wonder if she knows.

1:21:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, let's good. You've been over there chilling on Red Note, haven't.

1:21:59 Speaker 1: You kind of just keeping it?

1:22:05 Speaker 4: And I go back and forth between the Red Note and TikTok, but I just yeah, I've I've fallen in love with Red Note and the people on there as well. So if you haven't been on.

1:22:17 Speaker 1: There, Yeah, all these platforms that allow cultures to come together in a way that isn't pitted in factionalism itself is a unique and really wonderful, wonderful thing, and it is some of the good that has come out of you know, the Internet and being able to connect, you know with someone who literally lives on the opposite side of the world, so and to experience their culture up close in you know, in your hand. So I think there's much to be left, there's much to be had in that, in that that environment.

1:22:55 Speaker 1: So it's really cool to see that. You know, you're you're looking to these things and and going to integrate them into your strategic assessment and and employment of the Bureau. So Mindy, thank you so much for joining us today. I really, I really had a great time. I look forward to future conversations and partnerships and you can't wait to see what the Bureau does.

1:23:22 Speaker 4: Absolutely, thank you, tod.

1:23:23 Speaker 1: Alrighty, and we'll see you soon, okay, And like I said, I'll absolutely be.

1:23:29 Speaker 5: Be reaching out and uh okay, sounds good.

1:23:33 Speaker 1: Staying in touch.

1:23:35 Speaker 4: All right.

1:23:36 Speaker 1: Yeah. For everyone else out there, you know, make sure to like subscribe all that stuff. If you're listening on a podcast platform, review, follow the show. It's all free. We'll see you next time. Keep your eye on the sky.

1:23:48 Speaker 5: You never know what might fly by.

1:24:11 Speaker 2: An I didn't, don't

1:24:34 Speaker 4: It st